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Sunnis And Shias- Can We Just Unite...?

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shias are not attacking sunnis.. they are defending themselves from takfiri apes... 

if you call the apes in syria sunni.. then you are calling cannibals, rapists and terrorists sunnis... 

yemen has a right to defend itself from saudi imposing a dictator on it.. saudi arabia are the biggest anti-muslims. they make a billion dollars a day from oil only to keep yemen the poorest arab country for decades.. they were fed up and kicked out the billionaire pupet and thats why saudi decided to massacre all the yemenis

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50 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Turkey (new comer), Iraq and Iran are under one shelter now. Qatar and Kuwait are too showing interest in Unity and are marching ahead to go against Saudi Arabia.

Palestine is the common cause. Defeating Israel and US is the common cause. Be optimistic. See through the real lenses. Collaboration is actually happening. 

Stop addressing the "Stuff" start a new thread, and solicit like minded people and people who what to engage yo and what to respond.

As far as I am concerned here in this thread. It seems that you do not what this discussion(read below) to happen. Why?

Read the Thread posted. 

"Lets see if the calls for Unity are real.

Are the Muslims united or disunited.

1) Messenger, only in Delivering Revelation. Rest, only a human like us, others an have better judgement,  opinions in leadership,preserving Quran, etc..

2) Messenger, but Book of Allah(awj)  is sufficient for us

3) Mawla in All comprehensive and Complete sense. (Prophet/Messenger/Imam-Khaliftullah Vicegerent of Allah(awj) without limitation of time and space - All my affairs- as Islam is the same as our Nature, as its a Way of life not only a personal relationship with  Allah(awj). 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235006908-sunnis-and-shias-can-we-just-unite/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-3097753

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1 minute ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Stop addressing the "Stuff" start a new thread, and solicit like minded people and people who what to engage yo and what to respond.

As far as I am concerned here in this thread. It seems that you do not what this discussion(read below) to happen. Why?

Read the Thread posted. 

"Lets see if the calls for Unity are real.

Are the Muslims united or disunited.

1) Messenger, only in Delivering Revelation. Rest, only a human like us, others an have better judgement,  opinions in leadership,preserving Quran, etc..

2) Messenger, but Book of Allah(awj)  is sufficient for us

3) Mawla in All comprehensive and Complete sense. (Prophet/Messenger/Imam-Khaliftullah Vicegerent of Allah(awj) without limitation of time and space - All my affairs- as Islam is the same as our Nature, as its a Way of life not only a personal relationship with  Allah(awj). 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235006908-sunnis-and-shias-can-we-just-unite/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-3097753

We don't need to unite on our beliefs. We need to unite against the common enemy. Each one will be asked about his/her belief by Allah on the Day of Judgement. 

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36 minutes ago, kirtc said:

shias are not attacking sunnis.. they are defending themselves from takfiri apes... 

if you call the apes in syria sunni.. then you are calling cannibals, rapists and terrorists sunnis... 

yemen has a right to defend itself from saudi imposing a dictator on it.. saudi arabia are the biggest anti-muslims. they make a billion dollars a day from oil only to keep yemen the poorest arab country for decades.. they were fed up and kicked out the billionaire pupet and thats why saudi decided to massacre all the yemenis

Brother, There are many other NORMAL sunnis too who live in Syria!!

Yemen is atleast with Iran and Lebanon and against Saudi and other powers.

Lebanon is clearly against those Powers.

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5 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

We don't need to unite on our beliefs. We need to unite against the common enemy. Each one will be asked about his/her belief by Allah on the Day of Judgement. 

 

Lets look at your logic.

You do not want to unit on the beliefs.

You want to unite against the common enemy.

*****

1)Who is the common enemy and

2)What is this common enemy against? 

3)What do you think will happen, once you defeated this enemy, Who (which group) gets to be the Ruler of the entire world. Do you have to live under their rule and religion(belief) or they will honor your religion? 

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13 hours ago, Waseem162 said:

There are many conditions and this is one of them as per the Global situations. Its upto you to believe it or not. More of the Marajes do believe in this and stress upon this. Somethings are learned from History of Islam. Its not necessary that a hadith is present for it.

No. There should be proof for everything otherwise you should not utter sensitive things from your mind. To push your agenda of 'unity with sunnis' you quickly made up unity with them as the reason for his (atfs) delay in reappearance. No proof, nothing.

I'll show you why Imam-e-Zamana (atfs) reappearance is getting delayed by his (atfs) words.

1. Imam (a.t.f.s.) wrote in a tawqee to the author of Kamaluddin, Shaikh Saduq (a.r.)

Had our Shias, may Allah give them tawfeeq for His obedience, remained united in fulfilling our promises, then our meeting would not have been delayed.”

(Behaar al-Anwaar, vol. 53, p. 176)

 

2. In his lofty address to Shaikh Mufid (413 A.H.), Imam (a.t.f.s.) says:

“If our Shias (may Allah give them the opportunity of obedience) would be firm on their promises whole-heartedly, our meeting would not be delayed and they would see us much sooner; a seeing that is accompanied with true recognition with respect to us. Thus, nothing keeps them far from us save their unpleasant actions that we become aware of and which we don’t reckon to be worthy.”

(Kamaluddin 2/85; Ghaibah -Tusi/292 & 293)

 

3. In another Tawqee to Janab Sheikh Mufeed (r.a), Imam (a.t.f.s.) declares,

“May Allah grant the ‘Taufeeq’ (grace) to our Shias for His obedience. If our Shias would have remained united and would have been steadfast in fulfilling their pledge, there would not have been any delay in our meeting with them. They would have been blessed with our meeting and our presence through their recognition and their truthfulness. But the thing which has delayed our reappearance and has distanced us from them is the news that we get about their deeds which we dislike and don’t expect from them.” 

(Al-Ehtejaaj of Sheikh Tabarsi, vol. 2, p. 499) 

 

Unity with Shias is important before anything else. Our deeds are the reason for his delayed reappearance.

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Firstly reject the thing quoted in this thread. That Nauzobillah Prophet was just there to reveal the message. He was normal, etc.

Most of the Sunnis (Not wahhabis) are die hard lovers of RasoolAllah and they "almost" share the same belief as us on RasoolAllah.

Yes there are obvious differences on Imam Ali. But here too they love Imam Ali. Yes their love and our love, their Maaref'at and our Maarefa't has a "lot" of gap. Again they love the Holy Household but they don't actually follow them, this is a very major difference but till now they are not hating anyone.

They don't hate them who should have been hated. Its okay. They'll get the similar reward. They are firm on their innocence, let them be.

So we can unite on the pre existing common (somewhat) love for RasoolAllah and the Holy Household (Again just love, don't examine the hate part. if Imam Mahdi (ajfs) would come and show them the corrupt people through his Power and Ilm e Ghayb, most of them will accept the tragedy that happened and will denounce those whom they considered sacred.)

Now 1. Our Common enemy is Israel. The enemy of Islam and Muslims. Our common enemy are all Imperialist powers who are trying to make Muslims brawl over each other, kill each other and finally they'll occupy everything.

2. Common enemy is against the unity of Muslims. Because he knows that unity will make them strong. And their plans will fail. We are the 2nd Largest Religion. And we have Hajj as a very very Powerful source to come together and denounce the enemy and remove the internal rifts we might have with each other. This is one of the most important aspect of Hajj.

3. When Muslims will be united, things will be sorted. If Muslims become the world power, this will surely hasten the Imam reappearance. You can apply the logic (WHY?) 

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4 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

No. There should be proof for everything otherwise you should not utter sensitive things from your mind. To push your agenda of 'unity with sunnis' you quickly made up unity with them as the reason for his (atfs) delay in reappearance. No proof, nothing.

I'll show you why Imam-e-Zamana (atfs) reappearance is getting delayed by his (atfs) words.

1. Imam (a.t.f.s.) wrote in a tawqee to the author of Kamaluddin, Shaikh Saduq (a.r.)

Had our Shias, may Allah give them tawfeeq for His obedience, remained united in fulfilling our promises, then our meeting would not have been delayed.”

(Behaar al-Anwaar, vol. 53, p. 176)

 

2. In his lofty address to Shaikh Mufid (413 A.H.), Imam (a.t.f.s.) says:

“If our Shias (may Allah give them the opportunity of obedience) would be firm on their promises whole-heartedly, our meeting would not be delayed and they would see us much sooner; a seeing that is accompanied with true recognition with respect to us. Thus, nothing keeps them far from us save their unpleasant actions that we become aware of and which we don’t reckon to be worthy.”

(Kamaluddin 2/85; Ghaibah -Tusi/292 & 293)

 

3. In another Tawqee to Janab Sheikh Mufeed (r.a), Imam (a.t.f.s.) declares,

“May Allah grant the ‘Taufeeq’ (grace) to our Shias for His obedience. If our Shias would have remained united and would have been steadfast in fulfilling their pledge, there would not have been any delay in our meeting with them. They would have been blessed with our meeting and our presence through their recognition and their truthfulness. But the thing which has delayed our reappearance and has distanced us from them is the news that we get about their deeds which we dislike and don’t expect from them.” 

(Al-Ehtejaaj of Sheikh Tabarsi, vol. 2, p. 499) 

 

Unity with Shias is important before anything else. Our deeds are the reason for his delayed reappearance.

Let me show you where your "Myopia" is. 

All this will happen "If Shias remain"!!! If Shias are killed, Then how can you think better things would happen.

Unity will bring in safety of Shias. Because Sunnis (real ones) too denounce Wahhabis (the source of killings).

And as we know these Wahhabis are created by Imperialist Powers. Then this becomes a domino.

Get together and stand against all the Imperialist Powers. If they are defeated. All domino falls. 

Then peace will prevail for some extent. Then we can expect the Mahdi to return.

And in all this - Fear of Allah is needed. Struggle is needed. Taqwa is needed. Nobody does Jihad (of any form) in the true sense unless his soul is pure.

Iran is the greatest example. Of Unity. Unity among Shias as well as Sunni (Inter + Intra).

This is a model for us.

Why Killings don't happen in Iran??

Because it has no Wahhabi brainwashed minds inside as well as Sunnis take part in most of the rallies. They come to Arbaeen walk from Iran too!!

Open your eyes...!!

Be practical. Otherwise we all can go to our home, pray, pray and pray. Fast, fast and fast. Stay away from Politics. Take no political measures. And hope for Mahdi. This is utter loss of ours.

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2 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Let me show you where your "Myopia" is. 

All this will happen "If Shias remain"!!! If Shias are killed, Then how can you think better things would happen.

Unity will bring in safety of Shias. Because Sunnis (real ones) too denounce Wahhabis (the source of killings).

And as we know these Wahhabis are created by Imperialist Powers. Then this becomes a domino.

Get together and stand against all the Imperialist Powers. If they are defeated. All domino falls. 

Then peace will prevail for some extent. Then we can expect the Mahdi to return.

And in all this - Fear of Allah is needed. Struggle is needed. Taqwa is needed. Nobody does Jihad (of any form) in the true sense unless his soul is pure.

Iran is the greatest example. Of Unity. Unity among Shias as well as Sunni (Inter + Intra).

This is a model for us.

Why Killings don't happen in Iran??

Because it has no Wahhabi brainwashed minds inside as well as Sunnis take part in most of the rallies. They come to Arbaeen walk from Iran too!!

Open your eyes...!!

Be practical. Otherwise we all can go to our home, pray, pray and pray. Fast, fast and fast. Stay away from Politics. Take no political measures. And hope for Mahdi. This is utter loss of ours.

Just a simple question. Show me how you are trying to get united with shias?

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54 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

We don't need to unite on our beliefs. We need to unite against the common enemy. Each one will be asked about his/her belief by Allah on the Day of Judgement. 

The Common enemy is the same, you had at before but you will understand it better, with Karbala.

Truth vs Falsehood

Humanity vs InHumanity.

 

Edited by S.M.H.A.

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36 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Firstly reject the thing quoted in this thread. That Nauzobillah Prophet was just there to reveal the message. He was normal, etc.

Most of the Sunnis (Not wahhabis) are die hard lovers of RasoolAllah and they "almost" share the same belief as us on RasoolAllah.

Yes there are obvious differences on Imam Ali. But here too they love Imam Ali. Yes their love and our love, their Maaref'at and our Maarefa't has a "lot" of gap. Again they love the Holy Household but they don't actually follow them, this is a very major difference but till now they are not hating anyone.

They don't hate them who should have been hated. Its okay. They'll get the similar reward. They are firm on their innocence, let them be.

So we can unite on the pre existing common (somewhat) love for RasoolAllah and the Holy Household (Again just love, don't examine the hate part. if Imam Mahdi (ajfs) would come and show them the corrupt people through his Power and Ilm e Ghayb, most of them will accept the tragedy that happened and will denounce those whom they considered sacred.)

Now 1. Our Common enemy is Israel. The enemy of Islam and Muslims. Our common enemy are all Imperialist powers who are trying to make Muslims brawl over each other, kill each other and finally they'll occupy everything.

2. Common enemy is against the unity of Muslims. Because he knows that unity will make them strong. And their plans will fail. We are the 2nd Largest Religion. And we have Hajj as a very very Powerful source to come together and denounce the enemy and remove the internal rifts we might have with each other. This is one of the most important aspect of Hajj.

3. When Muslims will be united, things will be sorted. If Muslims become the world power, this will surely hasten the Imam reappearance. You can apply the logic (WHY?) 

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِلْعَالَمِينَ {107}

[Pickthal 21:107] We sent thee not save as a mercy for the peoples.

The moment, the so called Muslims stop oppressing the Mercy, they will be liberated.

I will post this again, 

Quote

"Lets see if the calls for Unity are real.

Are the Muslims united or disunited.

1) Messenger, only in Delivering Revelation. Rest, only a human like us, others an have better judgement,  opinions in leadership,preserving Quran, etc..

2) Messenger, but Book of Allah(awj)  is sufficient for us

3) Mawla in All comprehensive and Complete sense. (Prophet/Messenger/Imam-Khaliftullah Vicegerent of Allah(awj) without limitation of time and space - All my affairs- as Islam is the same as our Nature, as its a Way of life not only a personal relationship with  Allah(awj). 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235006908-sunnis-and-shias-can-we-just-unite/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-3097753

 

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58 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Just a simple question. Show me how you are trying to get united with shias?

Can you tell me where we are lacking in uniting with Shias? (Vague Akhbaris can't be brought under unity, Just like Ahmadis can't be brought under Unity of Muslims)

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1 minute ago, Waseem162 said:

Aha! Now I understand. You surely an Akhbari. You can't be an Usuli.

Not at all. I'm in the taqleed of Ayatullah Sistani. I do not recite third shahadah in Salaat.

If you are telling me that I'm akhbari just because I'm in favour of unity with them then you are sunni because you whole day insist on unity with them. Fair enough?

Edited by Sirius_Bright

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1 minute ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Not at all. I'm in the taqleed of Ayatullah Sistani. I do not recite third shahadah in Salaat.

Same here! I'm a muqallid of Ayatullah ul Udhma Sistani (h.a).

But being his muqallid and listening to well renowned Ulemas, how can you even think of uniting with Akhbaris who "Openly lash their curses on Marajes"??

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Just now, Waseem162 said:

Same here! I'm a muqallid of Ayatullah ul Udhma Sistani (h.a).

But being his muqallid and listening to well renowned Ulemas, how can you even think of uniting with Akhbaris who "Openly lash their curses on Marajes"??

Maraja's are respected figures but not ma'soom. While those personalities who are masoom are disrespected by your sunni brothers (check with bukhari and others). Sunnis don't believe in 12 Imams akhbaris do. Sunni respect the murderers of Ahlulbait (ams) while akhbaris disassociates with them. We have almost everything in common with Shia Akhbaris than sunnis. Tell me where to step for unity first, with sunnis or shias?

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7 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Maraja's are respected figures but not ma'soom. While those personalities who are masoom are disrespected by your sunni brothers (check with bukhari and others). Sunnis don't believe in 12 Imams akhbaris do. Sunni respect the murderers of Ahlulbait (ams) while akhbaris disassociates with them. We have almost everything in common with Shia Akhbaris than sunnis. Tell me where to step for unity first, with sunnis or shias?

You are lacking BASEERAH in this case my friend. Internal damage is more than the external damage.

Unity with Akhbaris is just not doable because here we are "compromising on our True beliefs". If we let Akhbaris do their job freely then surely most of the people will go astray. Attributing "Divinity" to 14 masomeens and hurling around Khutba tul Bayaan. Propagating about Shahdat e Salesa in Tashahud. This will affect our generation and the concept of "Taqwa" as Imam Mahdi wanted will not be achieved.

Because a person performing wrong acts in the name of Allah, having wrong beliefs in the name of Ahlulbayt can't be rewarded. And this is the target/goal of Shias for the Reappearance.

Usulis "condemn" Akhbaris on Intellectual grounds. These Akhbaris have taken themselves to Ghulat too.

Unity with Sunnis is not on belief. But just against the common enemy and to bring power and peace to the Muslim World. We are not going to ban taraweeh and they're not going to attack Majalis unlike Wahhabi takfiris. They will be them and we will be us. The only good thing will be "No Wahhabiat". Sunnis too don't want Wahhabis. Also no Imperialistic domination on Muslims. 

Edited by Waseem162

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5 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

You are lacking BASEERAH in this case my friend. Internal damage is more than the external damage.

Okay. As you say Mr. Ocean of wisdom.

6 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Unity with Akhbaris is just not doable because here we are "compromising on our True beliefs".

Already seeing shias denying tabarrah and Azadari due to love for sunnis.

9 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Attributing "Divinity" to 14 masomeens and hurling around Khutba tul Bayaan.

You cannot say about this things. Scholars have differing opinion on the issue of takwiniyat.

10 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Propagating about Shahdat e Salesa in Tashahud

Propagating about wilayat-e-Faqeeh. Both should be a choice based on one's muqallad.

12 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

This will affect our generation and the concept of "Taqwa" as Imam Mahdi wanted will not be achieved.

:confused: ??

14 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Usulis "condemn" Akhbaris on Intellectual grounds. These Akhbaris have taken themselves to Ghulat too.

Why can't the same usuli "condemn" sunnis for following Murderers and usurpers of Ahlulbait (ams) on intellectual grounds. Sunnis have taken themselves away from Sirat-e-Mustaqeem.

16 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Unity with Sunnis is not on belief.

True, but on papers. I remember few excited shia kids went on to pray taraweeh with sunnis. Each and everyday we see many shias denying tabarrah. Rituals of Azadari (other than tatbir) are denied by shia similar to sunnis. Tawassul is the new thing many shias are going against these days, etc.

21 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

We are not going to ban taraweeh and they're not going to attack Majalis unlike Wahhabi takfiris.

Not with weapons but ideologically both are gonna do this.

All in all I see much more in common with different shia subsects than with a sunni.

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13 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Okay. As you say Mr. Ocean of wisdom.

Already seeing shias denying tabarrah and Azadari due to love for sunnis.

You cannot say about this things. Scholars have differing opinion on the issue of takwiniyat.

Propagating about wilayat-e-Faqeeh. Both should be a choice based on one's muqallad.

:confused: ??

Why can't the same usuli "condemn" sunnis for following Murderers and usurpers of Ahlulbait (ams) on intellectual grounds. Sunnis have taken themselves away from Sirat-e-Mustaqeem.

True, but on papers. I remember few excited shia kids went on to pray taraweeh with sunnis. Each and everyday we see many shias denying tabarrah. Rituals of Azadari (other than tatbir) are denied by shia similar to sunnis. Tawassul is the new thing many shias are going against these days, etc.

Not with weapons but ideologically both are gonna do this.

All in all I see much more in common with different shia subsects than with a sunni.

Allah knows my state better than you do (You quoting me an Ocean of something). Wilayat e Taqwiniyah is not Divinity. Divinity is by self. Wilayat is given by Allah. Wilayat e Faqih and Shahdat e Salesa are way too different subjects. We don't force Wilayat e Faqih on someone. But Akhbaris say that those who don't recite Shahadat e Salesa is not of pure blood. (He is an illegitimate offspring).

Those Usulis have done it, (condemning the wrongdoers). We don't care whether Sunnis are on Sirat al Mustaqeem or not. Its their choice. We can only put facts in front. Those shias who did went to Taraweeh committed a sin of taking part in a Bida and hence strengthening it. Usulis condemn strengthening any Bida. We do Tabarrah but Laan Taan and Tabarrah are very different from each other. First understand what Tabarra is. Who on this earth is denying "rituals of Azadari". How do you made up this??

Who said Tawassul is not a part of Shiism. Infact it is one of the most important beliefs of Shiism. Are you talking about Shias of Mars who do all these things? Because Usulis don't ask their Muqallids to do so.

Yes Sunni and Shias are different on Ideologically and will be against each other till the end. This is very natural. This is the basis of being divided in sects. That doesn't means we can't live in peace and come together to fight the enemy.

 

What do you think - Fighting the enemy is more important by Uniting with the Majority (sunnis), or Uniting with Akhbaris and letting Shiism get ruined. 

Do know that Modern day Akhbariyat is a clear source of Fitnah and a door to jahiliyat. The first video is something you must Listen!!

 

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4 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Wilayat e Faqih and Shahdat e Salesa are way too different subjects. We don't force Wilayat e Faqih on someone. But Akhbaris say that those who don't recite Shahadat e Salesa is not of pure blood. (He is an illegitimate offspring).

See, I'm not at all favouring akhbariyat but the comparison between Akhbaris and sunnis is clear cut. I'll be keeping a mile of distance from those who follow the one who oppressed Ahlulbait (ams). While what Akhbari says about those who do not recite shahadat e Salesa is not false but I have met hardcore WFers who says those who do not believe in wilayat-e-Faqih of Ayatullah Khamenei is not Shia. Problem is on both the sides.

9 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

We do Tabarrah but Laan Taan and Tabarrah are very different from each other.

La'an is a part of tabarrah and the way of Ahlulbait (ams). This is a topic for some other day, some other thread.

11 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Who on this earth is denying "rituals of Azadari". How do you made up this??

This has happened and is still happening. You are very naive or acting like one. No one's making anything.

12 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Who said Tawassul is not a part of Shiism. Infact it is one of the most important beliefs of Shiism. Are you talking about Shias of Mars who do all these things?

Stay some more time on SC and you'll yourself get to know those Shias of Mars.

13 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

Yes Sunni and Shias are different on Ideologically and will be against each other till the end. This is very natural. This is the basis of being divided in sects. That doesn't means we can't live in peace and come together to fight the enemy.

Why not consider same things for other Shia subsects.

15 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

What do you think - Fighting the enemy is more important by Uniting with the Majority (sunnis), or Uniting with Akhbaris and letting Shiism get ruined. 

So you are uniting with sunnis because they are in majority. Interesting!. Gathering a vast number to fight enemies, Really? What have you learnt from Badr, Ohad.. Karbala?

I'm not telling you to unite with Akhbaris or sunnis but if you want to united with anyone then subsects of shias are far better to get united than a sunni.

I'm done. You can continue with polemics.

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