sahar_zaidi

Why Shia Perform 5 Prayers In Three Time?

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salam,

well i am shia but i never understand why shia performed 5 prayer in three time . i read in nahjul balagha hazrat ali A.S define the timing of 5 time of salat(namaaz) then why we dont follow him.i did a lot of debates on this topic and never got a satisfactory answer.i am not saying its not allowed bcz i heard that holy prophet pbuh performed combined the noon prayer with the afternoon prayer, but this answer is not satisfactory because he also performed salat 5 times then how we can justify 3 time prayer?

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i am not saying its wrong but why we give preference to it.As HAzrat ALI A.S mentioned in Nejhal ul balagha letter 52 which are given below.

here i am showing HAZRAT ALI AS letter taken from NAjhul balagha ,in which he mentioned different timing of 5 salah.

Letter 52, is a highly valuable source to determine the timing of Salah. In it Ali informs the timing of prayers. "Lead the Zohr prayers till the shadow of a wall becomes equal to the height of the wall. The Asr prayers can be performed till the sun is still bright and enough time of the day is left for a person to cover a distance of six miles. The maghrib prayers should be performed when people open their fast and when Hajj pilgrims return from Arafat. And the time for Isha prayers is when the red glow of the evening twilight disappears from the west… The morning prayers are to be performed when there appears enough light of the dawn for a man to recognize the face of his companion."

here are 2 quranic verse ;

So be steadfast in the face of what they say and glorify your Lord with praise before the rising of the Sun and before its setting. And glorify Him during part of the night and at both ends of the day, so that hopefully you will be pleased. (Surah Ta Ha, 130)

So glory be to Allah when you start the night and when you greet the day. Praise be to Him in the heavens and the Earth, in the afternoon and when you reach midday. (Surat ar-Rum, 17-18)

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this is what Ayatullah Sistani say:

Question :

Why do Shiites combine their prayers? Is it permissible to do so?

Answer :

It is permissible to combine Zuhr and Asr prayers and to perform them separately as it is permissible in both manners. It is narrated that the Holy Prophet of Islam (pbuh) offered his prayers in both combined as well separate manners. He combined his prayers without being in an urgent situation like war or storm.

now i am kinda confused, is it only permissable to combine Zuhr and Asr players? or can we combine Maghrib and Isha as well? because i thought we could combine them, but the answer only says Zuhr Asr :donno:

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you can combine Zuhr and Asr together, and Maqrib and Isha together. you do not "have to", rather it is permissible. meaning the option is there should you choose to take it.

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(bismillah)

It is permissible mutlaqan, if I am not mistaken, to combine al-Zuhr and al-`Asr in one time, whether it be jam` al-taqdeem or al-taakheer (earlier or delayed). The same applies to al-Maghrib and al-`Ishaa. However, it is better and mustahabb to separate your prayers into their respective fadeela timings.. <<And I believe this is whether or not you decide to pray nawafil between them.

When one combines, your prayers revolve around your day. When you separate, your day revolves your prayers. Inshaa'Allah.

Ýí ÇãÇä Çááå

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(bismillah)

When one combines, your prayers revolve around your day. When you separate, your day revolves your prayers. Inshaa'Allah.

Ýí ÇãÇä Çááå

So when the Prophet(s) combined his prayers his prayers revolved around his day? No a true believer can have his day revolve around his prayers regardless if he combines or separates.

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(bismillah)

So when the Prophet(s) combined his prayers his prayers revolved around his day? No a true believer can have his day revolve around his prayers regardless if he combines or separates.

The Prophet (sawa) combining in those instances were not his norm... Travel, rain etc are exceptional situations. And when he did so for no reason, the hadith show it was only to show the people it was permissible... that it is allowed. To teach them.

Silly argument, really. Combining was not his [sawa] norm, afaik, separating was.

Ýí ÇãÇä Çááå

Edited by Dar'ul_Islam

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(bismillah)

The Prophet (sawa) combining in those instances were not his norm... Travel, rain etc are exceptional situations. And when he did so for no reason, the hadith show it was only to show the people it was permissible... that it is allowed. To teach them.

Silly argument, really. Combining was not his [sawa] norm, afaik, separating was.

Ýí ÇãÇä Çááå

Norm or not its permissible so to say that those who combine their prayers their day doesn't revolve around their prayers is belittling those who make sure their day revolves around their prayers regardless if they combine or not . Me personally if I'm sitting at home doing nothing I pray separately but some days I combine like when I'm at work but my day never stops revolving around my prayers regardless if I'm combining or not.

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My question is why hazrat ALI a.s clearly mentioned in his letter 5 different time of salah.

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 4 Surah Nisaa verse 103:Indeed the Salaat is a prescribed duty that should be performed by the believers at (their) appointed times.

In light of the hadith which you have quoted from Hadrat Ibn Abbas (r.a.), it is indeed true the Messenger of Allah (saws) might have combined his prayers on this occasion without fear, or rain, or being on a journey; but in light of the various Aayahs of the Glorious Quran, and the various narrations of the Messenger of Allah (saws), and the numerous accounts of the thousands of his noble companions ... it is an accepted fact that the Prophet (saws), the noble companions, the Ahle-Bayt and all the believers prayed the five obligatory prayers at their five different appointed times of the day;

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ÞóÇáó ÇáÕøóÇÏöÞõ )Ú): Åöäøó ÇáúÚóÈúÏó ÅöÐóÇ Õóáøóì ÇáÕøóáÇóÉó Ýöí æóÞúÜÊöåóÇ æó ÍóÇÝóÙó ÚóáóíúåóÇ ÇÑúÊóÝóÚóÊú ÈóíúÖóÇÁó äóÞöíøóÉð ÊóÞõæáõ ÍóÝöÙúÊóäöí ÍóÝöÙóßó Çááøñåõ æó ÅöÐóÇ áóãú íõÕóáöøåóÇ áöæóÞúÊöåóÇ æó áóãú íõÍóÇÝöÙú ÚóáóíúåóÇ ÇÑúÊóÝóÚóÊú ÓóæúÏóÇÁó ãõÙúáöãóÉð ÊóÞõæáõ ÖóíøóÚúÊóäöí ÖóíøóÚóßó Çááøñåõ.

Imam As-Sadiq (peace be upon him) has said: “When a person maintains his prayer and offers it at its stipulated time, it ascends in the form of a pure white light and calls out to him: “You have guarded me, may Allah protect you.” But if he does not maintain his prayer and does not offer it at its decreed time, it ascends as a dark and gloomy form and says to him: You have destroyed me, may Allah destroy you.”

Al-Mahajjatul Baidha, Volume 1, Page 340

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The 5 daily prayers are clearly mentioned in the Quran, for easy reference see: (1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr) given in 11:114, 24:58 (2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr) given in 17:78 and 30:18 (3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr) given in 2:238 (4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib) given in 11:114 (5) The Night Prayer (Isha) given in 24:58

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I pray 5 distinct times whenever possible. I follow a sunni schedule, as it is hard to come by a 5 times a day shia schedule where I live.

In my opinion, we've taken an allowance for when situations may be difficult, and made it into a rule. The prophet may have combined prayer from time to time, even when it wasn't urgent to do so, but he didn't do it everyday like we do.

I don't see why any Shia would want to combine prayers when it would be possible to say 5 distinct prayers.

Abu Tufayl likes this

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why we shia always give references of combine prayer form sunni book. do we have any evidance in our shia books.why in shia mosque call for adhan 3 time aday? i was in a Iran and Iraq last year and i heard 3 time adhan only

: When the sun begins to decline at midday, then the time for zuhr (noon) and asr (afternoon) begins. However, the time for zuhr is before asr. As soon as zuhr prayer is finished, the time for asr prayer begins. These two prayers can be offered until sunset.

Reference: Sayings of Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) Furoo e Kafi Kitab ul Salat chapter 4 hadith 6, 7, and 10

The time of asr begins when the shadow is equal to one hand.

Reference: Sayings of Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) Furoo e Kafi Kitab ul Salat chapter 10 hadith 2

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The worst thing is, people are writing 'refutations' of praying at 5 seperate times, others are calling it a wahhabi, or a batri thing to do.

In england, in winter, maghreb time can be very early, 5pm, and on thursday nights, or nights when they give a lecture, even if the lecture will start at 8, which is even after isha time, they will still pray both prayers.

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(bismillah)

why we shia always give references of combine prayer form sunni book. do we have any evidance in our shia books.why in shia mosque call for adhan 3 time aday? i was in a Iran and Iraq last year and i heard 3 time adhan only

: When the sun begins to decline at midday, then the time for zuhr (noon) and asr (afternoon) begins. However, the time for zuhr is before asr. As soon as zuhr prayer is finished, the time for asr prayer begins. These two prayers can be offered until sunset.

Reference: Sayings of Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) Furoo e Kafi Kitab ul Salat chapter 4 hadith 6, 7, and 10

The time of asr begins when the shadow is equal to one hand.

Reference: Sayings of Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) Furoo e Kafi Kitab ul Salat chapter 10 hadith 2

It is undoubtedly permissible to combine for no reason and the strongest evidence is in our own books. There is an entire chapter in Wasa'il al-Shi`ah about the permissibility to combine prayers without any necessitating reason or excuse. Also the chapters about prayer timings, which there are many and different kinds of hadith on this, state things like "the times have entered" etc after the sun decline or sets.

Ýí ÇãÇä Çááå

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why we shia always give references of combine prayer form sunni book. do we have any evidance in our shia books.why in shia mosque call for adhan 3 time aday? i was in a Iran and Iraq last year and i heard 3 time adhan only

: When the sun begins to decline at midday, then the time for zuhr (noon) and asr (afternoon) begins. However, the time for zuhr is before asr. As soon as zuhr prayer is finished, the time for asr prayer begins. These two prayers can be offered until sunset.

Reference: Sayings of Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) Furoo e Kafi Kitab ul Salat chapter 4 hadith 6, 7, and 10

The time of asr begins when the shadow is equal to one hand.

Reference: Sayings of Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) Furoo e Kafi Kitab ul Salat chapter 10 hadith 2

Salam brother, I feel you are not a shia.. I feel you are a sunni but anyway.. our books ahlamdulilah are full information in that regard.. we reference sunni books because they are the people who oppose us in this view.. If we can prove from THEIR books that the prophet muhammad (saw) prayed salat in both combined and seperate modes then we can easily say that we (shia) ahlamdulilah are on the right path as we believe that it could be done in different ways.. My mother prays them different times as it is more right (as prescribed by the quran) however, messenger of Allah (swt) told us that it is permissible if you dont want to pray it separetely at different times and he said (from both shia and sunni references) that Allah made this religion easy for his servants (especially prayers - we all know the stories)..

The quran mentions about when we can pray, not when we CANT.. and as you know, gods message came in two parts: Quran, and the life of the prophet (saw). As an example, Allah in the quran didnt tell us how to pray, for example amounts of raakat or what to read in every position.. He talked about salat in general and left the details for the messenger of Allah mohammad (saw).. Same with prayer, Allah told us general information and the details came with Mohammad (saw).. and Allah says:

Quran 59:7

And whatever the Messenger has given you - take; and what he has forbidden you - refrain from. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.

So our oblligation is to trust muhammad (saw) and follow on his righteous path inshallah..

Anyway, ive said my part.. here are he references..

(Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Combining two prayers)

"The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) prayed the Zuhr and Asr prayers together in Madinah without any fear and without any travelling. Abu Zubair says that he asked Saeed, "Why did he (s.a.w.s.) do it?" He said, "Ibne Abbas asked about it as you ask me. He (s.a.w.s.) replied that he did not wish that people of his Ummah should be put to inconvenience."

(Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Hadith 270)

Narrated Amr:

I heard Abu Ash-sha’tha’ Jabir saying, "I heard Ibn Abbas saying, ‘I offered with Allah’s Apostle eight rakat (of Zuhr and Asr prayers) together and seven rakat (the Maghrib and the Isha’ prayers) together.’

(Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Hadith 518)

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

"The Prophet prayed eight rakat for the Zuhr and Asr, and seven for the Maghrib and Isha prayers in Medina." Aiyub said, "Perhaps those were rainy nights." Anas said, "May be."

So from here we can see that the prophet indeed prayed (combining) his salat even when there wasnt any special circumstance and this is from our oppositions books.. so im not sure what they are relying on but to say that praying (and combining) is NOT allowed i think they have fallen into HARAM.. i wouldnt be bothered if they said it is more right NOT to combine (since this is what we say also) but to say that something which Allah and his messenger said was allowed and claim its not allowed then they have commited a sin! (misguidance)

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The Shia Defence Force

Firstly i am shia alhamdulliah but i have some issues with shia concepts which i am trying to find so dont take it as a battle.secondly i didnt say its haram or prohibited.

Its true i m confused about combine salat but i didnt say its haram.Even in my house my mother my sister performed combine salah all the time and i m the only one who performed salah seperatly i mean on proper time, they even dont think to performed seperatly because they are fully convinced that its the only right way to follow

.In pakistan as i also noticed in iran and iraq they only called adhan for 3 time and performed combine salat which they regularly do.My question was we are follower of Hazrat ALi A.S he menitoned in his letter no 52 in Najhul balagha clearly about 5 seperate timing of salat ,harzat imam hussain A.S was killed in battle of karbala while performing salah ,his act show the importance of salah .

i have the issue of regularly doing combine salah.

i didnt find any references in shia books about combine salah but as u mentioned its given in many books.so can you please show me the hadith related to combine salah in shia book.

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how many time Holy prophet pbuh performed combine salah in his whole life. i mean what was the ratio of combine and seperate salah.how he was mostly performed salah?

Narated By 'Abdullah : I asked the Prophet "Which deed is the dearest to Allah?" He replied, "To offer the prayers

at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to

your parents" I again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, 'To participate in Jihad (religious fighting)

in Allah's cause." 'Abdullah added, "I asked only that much and if I had asked more, the Prophet would have told me

more."

Volumn 001, Book 010, Hadith Number 506.shahi bukhari

-----------------------------------------

Narated By Abu Huraira : I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "If there was a river at the door of anyone of you and he

took a bath in it five times a day would you notice any dirt on him?" They said, "Not a trace of dirt would be left." The

Prophet added, "That is the example of the five prayers with which Allah blots out (annuls) evil deeds."

Volumn 001, Book 010, Hadith Number 507.

-----------------------------------------

Narated By Abu Al-Minhal : Abu Barza said, "The Prophet used to offer the Fajr (prayer) when one could recognize

the person sitting by him (after the prayer) and he used to recite between 60 to 100 Ayat (verses) of the Qur'an. He

used to offer the Zuhr prayer as soon as the sun declined (at noon) and the 'Asr at a time when a man might go

and return from the farthest place in Medina and find the sun still hot. (The sub-narrator forgot what was said about

the Maghrib). He did not mind delaying the 'Isha prayer to one third of the night or the middle of the night."

Volumn 001, Book 010, Hadith Number 517.

according to the letter on hazrat ali a.s in najhul balagha

"Lead the Zohr prayers till the shadow of a wall becomes equal to the height of the wall. The Asr prayers can be performed till the sun is still bright and enough time of the day is left for a person to cover a distance of six miles. The maghrib prayers should be performed when people open their fast and when Hajj pilgrims return from Arafat. And the time for Isha prayers is when the red glow of the evening twilight disappears from the west… The morning prayers are to be performed when there appears enough light of the dawn for a man to recognize the face of his companion."

Narated By 'Aisha : Allah's Apostle used to offer the 'Asr prayers at a time when the sunshine was still inside my

chamber and no shadow had yet appeared in it.

Volumn 001, Book 010, Hadith Number 521.

Narated By Saiyar bin Salama : I along with my father went to Abu- Barza Al-Aslarrni and my father asked him, "How

Allah's Apostle used to offer the five compulsory congregational prayers?" Abu- Barza said, "The Prophet used to

pray the Zuhr prayer which you (people) call the first one at mid-day when the sun had just declined The 'Asr

prayer at a time when after the prayer, a man could go to the house at the farthest place in Medina (and arrive)

while the sun was still hot. (I forgot about the Maghrib prayer). The Prophet Loved to delay the 'Isha which you call

Al- Atama and he disliked sleeping before it and speaking after it. After the Fajr prayer he used to leave when a

man could recognize the one sitting beside him and he used to recite between 60 to 100 Ayat (in the Fajr prayer).

Volumn 001, Book 010, Hadith Number 523.

Narated By Anas : The Prophet delayed the 'Isha prayer till midnight and then he offered the prayer and said, "The

people prayed and slept but you have been in prayer as long as you have been waiting for it (the prayer)." Anas

added: As if I am looking now at the glitter of the ring of the Prophet on that night.

there are also so many hadith in shahi bukhari.

i can also show u 5 time of salah mentioned in quranic verses.

Narated By Anas : The Prophet delayed the 'Isha prayer till midnight and then he offered the prayer and said, "The

people prayed and slept but you have been in prayer as long as you have been waiting for it (the prayer)." Anas

added: As if I am looking now at the glitter of the ring of the Prophet on that night.

there are also so many hadith in shahi bukhari.

i can also show u 5 time of salah mentioned in quranic verses.

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@ Sahar_Zaidi...My Bother...Let Me...Tell You...Show them SHIA REFERENCES....Or else they will slander you...But do not worry...I support you...You are right about the Five Time...Kaza is different Approach....

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the thing that always irritated me is calling me brother .sahar is girls name so please call me sister

Edited by sahar_zaidi

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Imam Jafar Sadiq (pbuh) said: "The superiority of Salah (Salat, Namaz) performed in the earliest moments over the one offered in the last moments of its specified time is the same as the superiority of the Hereafter over this world."

Imam Ali bin Moosa Al Ridha (pbuh) said: "When it is time for Salah (Salat, Namaz), perform your prayers; you never know what will happen afterwards ... Nothing is dearer to Almighty Allah than Salah (Salat, Namaz). Worldly affairs must not detract you from the prayer timings. Do not delay your prayers (from the prescribed timings) for no reason. Always perform your Salah (Salat, Namaz) on its best time."

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The 5 daily prayers are clearly mentioned in the Quran, for easy reference see: (1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr) given in 11:114, 24:58 (2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr) given in 17:78 and 30:18 (3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr) given in 2:238 (4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib) given in 11:114 (5) The Night Prayer (Isha) given in 24:58

Salam

I believe you have not pondered on the fact that most of these verses do not mention Five prayers in any of these. I am speaking of what the verses speak of.

Like, the first verse you have presented, from 11/114

Let us see that

And keep up prayer in the two parts of the day and in the first hours of the night; surely good deeds take away evil deeds this is a reminder to the mindful.

This verse is actually telling you the Three times

Verse 24/58 you mentioned, has nothing to do with Times of Salat at all, it says

O you who believe! let those whom your right hands possess and those of you who have not attained to puberty ask permission of you three times; before the morning prayer, and when you put off your clothes at midday in summer, and after the prayer of the nightfall; these are three times of privacy for you;

verse 17/78, as per you means, zuhr prayers. But if you pay attention, it says

Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.

Again, it shows Three times. I am amazed that rather than concentrating on the fact that it shows three times, you took Noon prayers in it. It is rather speaking of Time of Zuhur and Asr together

Verse 30/18 says, and I will include verse 17 as well

17. Therefore glory be to Allah when you enter upon the time of the evening and when you enter upon the time of the morning.

18. And to Him belongs praise in the heavens and the earth, and at nightfall and when you are at midday.

This verse shows 4 times

Verse 2/238

Attend constantly to prayers and to the middle prayer and stand up truly obedient to Allah.

It is not giving us any thing about timings.............

So you gave reference of 5 verses

Two of these are mentioning 3 times

One is mentioning 4 times

and two are not mentioning times at all.

There is a verse (130) of Surat Taha, and it says

So bear patiently what they say, and glorify the praises of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and during some hours of the night, and at the ends of the day , that you may become pleased with the reward which Allâh shall give you.

Again, we see 4 times.

And then we have verses 39 and 40 of Surat Qaaf

39. Therefore be patient of what they say, and sing the praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before the setting.

40. And glorify Him in the night and after the prayers.

Again, we see 3 times

So, Actually we do not have any verse which mentions 5 times clearly.

Edited by ghulam-e-ali

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why we shia always give references of combine prayer form sunni book. do we have any evidance in our shia books.

We find in Al Kafi, 3/286

1 - ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä Úáí Èä ÇáÍßã¡ Úä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÈßíÑ¡ Úä ÒÑÇÑÉ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÞÇá: ÕáìÑÓæá Çááå (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå) ÈÇáäÇÓ ÇáÙåÑ æÇáÚÕÑ Ííä ÒÇáÊ ÇáÔãÓ Ýí ÌãÇÚÉ ãä ÛíÑ ÚáÉ æÕáì Èåã ÇáãÛÑÈ æÇáÚÔÇÁ ÇáÂÎÑÉ ÞÈá ÓÞæØ ÇáÔÝÞ ãä ÛíÑ ÚáÉ Ýí ÌãÇÚÉ æÅäãÇ ÝÚá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå áíÊÓÚ ÇáæÞÊ Úáì ÃãÊå

This narration is authentic (Mauthiq) as per Allama Majlisi (MIraat ul Uqool, 15/51), and it clearly states it from Imam Abu Abdullah asws who said that Holy Prophet asws combined Zuhur and Asr; and simlarly Maghrib and Isha without any problem in order to ease it for us

why in shia mosque call for adhan 3 time aday? i was in a Iran and Iraq last year and i heard 3 time adhan only

Sheikh Jawahiri writes in his Jawahir ul Kalam, 19/65

ÞÇáÇáÕÇÏÞ (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) Ýí ÕÍíÍ ãäÕæÑ (1) " ÕáÇÉ ÇáãÛÑÈ æÇáÚÔÇÁ ÈÌãÚ ÈÃÐÇä æÇÍÏ æÅÞÇãÊíä¡ æáÇ ÊÕá ÈíäåãÇ ÈÔÆ¡ ÞÇá: åßÐÇ Õáì ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå "

Imam Jafar us Sadiq said in Sahih Narration to offer Maghrib and Isha with One Adhan and two Iqama, and that this is the way of Prophet asws................

Agha Khoi writes in his Kitab us Salat, 2/298

ÕÍíÍÉ ÑåØ ãäåã ÇáÝÖíá æÒÑÇÑÉ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Ãä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ÌãÚ Èíä ÇáÙåÑ æÇáÚÕÑ ÈÃÐÇä æÅÞÇãÊíä¡ æÌãÚ Èíä ÇáãÛÑÈ æÇáÚÔÇÁ ÈÃÐÇä æÇÍÏ æÅÞÇãÊíä (1).

æÕÍíÍÉ ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÓäÇä Úä ÇáÕÇÏÞ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Ãä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ÌãÚ Èíä ÇáÙåÑ æÇáÚÕÑ ÈÃÐÇä æÅÞÇãÊíä¡ æÌãÚ Èíä ÇáãÛÑÈ æÇáÚÔÇÁ Ýí ÇáÍÖÑ ãä ÛíÑ ÚáÉ ÈÃÐÇä æÇÍÏ æÅÞÇãÊíä (2).

that is

In Sahih of Fadeel and Zurara, Imam Abu Jafar asws said that Holy Prophet asws combined Zuhur and Asr with one Adhan and two Iqamat. And combined Maghrib and Isha with One Adhan and two Iqamat

and in Sahih of Abdullah bin Sinan, Imam Sadiq asws said that Holy Prophet combined Zuhur and Asr with ONe Adhan and two Iqamat. and same for Maghrib and Isha, when he was resident, and without any other reason with one Adhan and two iqamat.

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^ I think the point she is trying to make is just that our mosques don't call the adha5 times a day.

Either way, no sane person can believe that either the Prophet (s) or the Imams (a) used to combine their prayers all or most of the time, or else, people wouldn't be pulling out a handful of narrations to 'prove' - many of the narrations don't even portray it as a normal incident. We would be looking for the narrations where the prayers were prayed seperately

Don't these people wonder why at ghadir khumm, they didn't combine? Why in the whole incident leading up to karbala, we don't find them combining their prayers.

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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i didnt find any references in shia books about combine salah but as u mentioned its given in many books.so can you please show me the hadith related to combine salah in shia book.

Quite strange

I mean, I guess you had written

: When the sun begins to decline at midday, then the time for zuhr (noon) and asr (afternoon) begins. However, the time for zuhr is before asr. As soon as zuhr prayer is finished, the time for asr prayer begins. These two prayers can be offered until sunset.

Reference: Sayings of Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) Furoo e Kafi Kitab ul Salat chapter 4 hadith 6, 7, and 10

The time of asr begins when the shadow is equal to one hand.

Reference: Sayings of Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) Furoo e Kafi Kitab ul Salat chapter 10 hadith 2

You mentioned Furo al Kafi, and quoted Ahadeeth from it,

But you missed Full chapter ?

It names

(ÇáÌãÚ Èíä ÇáÕáÇÊíä)

It is in Vol 3, page 286 in Arabic version

And if you are in Pakistan, using the urdu version, it is

Furo e Kafi, vol 2, page 32

And I have gifted you with an Authentic narration from it already

Either way, no sane person can believe that either the Prophet (s) or the Imams (a) used to combine their prayers all or most of the time, or else, people wouldn't be pulling out a handful of narrations to 'prove' - many of the narrations don't even portray it as a normal incident.

Brother

please keep in mind that it is always better to offer prayers in times of Fadilat

Let me tell you that as per Shia sect, every prayer has two times

1- Time of Fadilat

2- Time of Ijza

Allama Mohammad Hussein explained this in his Qawaneen-us-Sharia, 1/230

And there is a chapter on this in Al Kafi, 3/273

Let me share an authentic narration from that

ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÓÚíÏ¡ Úä ÝÖÇáÉ Èä ÃíæÈÚä ãÚÇæíÉ Èä ÚãÇÑ Ãæ ÇÈä æåÈ ÞÇá: ÞÇá ÃÈæ ÚÈÏ Çááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) áßá ÕáÇÉ æÞÊÇä Ãæá ÇáæÞÊ ÃÝÖáåãÇ.

Imam Abu Abdullah asws said that every prayer has two times. And the first time is better

Allama Majlisi termed it Sahih in MIraat ul Uqool, 15/29

so no denying the fact that it is better to offer prayers in time of Fadilat

But denying Jama bain us Salatain altogether, is not correct

It has been allowed by Aimmah asws, as we have seen

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brother

i didnt say 5 time of salat are given in one verse but 5 salah are mentioned in different verses.

let me defined

verse (130) of Surat Taha (fajr,asr and isha)

verse 17 to 18 surah rum(fajr,maghrib,zuhr,asr)

Urdu translation of Quran by a Shia (Maulana Farman Ali) mentioned in his tafseer(explanation)that this verse show 5 time of salat

according to the letter on hazrat ali a.s in najhul balagha

"Lead the Zohr prayers till the shadow of a wall becomes equal to the height of the wall. The Asr prayers can be performed till the sun is still bright and enough time of the day is left for a person to cover a distance of six miles. The maghrib prayers should be performed when people open their fast and when Hajj pilgrims return from Arafat. And the time for Isha prayers is when the red glow of the evening twilight disappears from the west… The morning prayers are to be performed when there appears enough light of the dawn for a man to recognize the face of his companion."

Volumn 001, Book 010, Hadith Number 521.

Narated By Saiyar bin Salama : I along with my father went to Abu- Barza Al-Aslarrni and my father asked him, "How

Allah's Apostle used to offer the five compulsory congregational prayers?" Abu- Barza said, "The Prophet used to

pray the Zuhr prayer which you (people) call the first one at mid-day when the sun had just declined The 'Asr

prayer at a time when after the prayer, a man could go to the house at the farthest place in Medina (and arrive)

while the sun was still hot. (I forgot about the Maghrib prayer). The Prophet Loved to delay the 'Isha which you call

Al- Atama and he disliked sleeping before it and speaking after it. After the Fajr prayer he used to leave when a

man could recognize the one sitting beside him and he used to recite between 60 to 100 Ayat (in the Fajr prayer).

if hazrat ALI mentioned the 5 time in Nejhul balagha then why we dont noticed it

why shia performed combine salat on regular bases.why we follow the shortcuts?

and why 3 adhan aday?

can u please tell me in the life of HOLY PROPHET PBUH how many time adhan called in madina?

how many time Holy prophet pbuh performed combine salah in his whole life. i mean what was the ratio of combine and seperate salah.how he was mostly performed salah?

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brother

i didnt say 5 time of salat are given in one verse but 5 salah are mentioned in different verses.

let me defined

verse (130) of Surat Taha ( [1]fajr, [2]asr and [3]isha)

verse 17 to 18 surah rum( [1]fajr, [2]maghrib, [3]zuhr, [4]asr)

Urdu translation of Quran by a Shia (Maulana Farman Ali) mentioned in his tafseer(explanation)that this verse show 5 time of salat

As far as I can see none of them is mentioning 5.............3 or 4

And I had given you almost all the verses, mostly verses mention 3 Times of Salat

Some show 4 times

What you are trying to play with, it is either very innocent or very intelligent (in sense of deceptive)

By showing 5 prayers, you are trying to prove that they have to be offered in 5 different times as well

Well, that is not the case...............

there are 5 prayers...........Agreed

but times mentioned are not 5

I have no clue why you are unable to understand this point

"Times" were not given in Quran, they were given by Holy Prophet asws

Let me show you another authentic narration

this is the narration of Al Kafi, I am taking the translation from Nader's blog

Úáí Èä ÃÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÇÈä ÃÈí ÚãíÑ¡ Úä ÚãÑ Èä ÇÐíäÉ¡ Úä ÒÑÇÑÉ ÞÇá: ßäÊ ÞÇÚÏÇ ÚäÏ ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÃäÇ æÍãÑÇä Èä ÃÚíä ÝÞÇá áå ÍãÑÇä: ãÇ ÊÞæá ÝíãÇ íÞæá ÒÑÇÑÉ æÞÏ ÎÇáÝÊå Ýíå¿ ÝÞÇá ÃÈæÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã): ãÇ åæ¿ ÞÇá: íÒÚã Ãä ãæÇÞíÊ ÇáÕáÇÉ ßÇäÊ ãÝæÖÉ Åáì ÑÓæá Çááå (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå) åæ ÇáÐí æÖÚåÇ ÝÞÇá ÃÈæ ÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã): ÝãÇ ÊÞæá: ÃäÊ¿ ÞáÊ: Åä ÌÈÑÆíá (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÃÊÇå Ýí Çáíæã ÇáÇæá ÈÇáæÞÊ ÇáÇæá æÝí Çáíæã ÇáÇÎíÑ ÈÇáæÞÊ ÇáÇÎíÑ Ëã ÞÇá ÌÈÑÆíá (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã): ãÇ ÈíäåãÇ æÞÊ. ÝÞÇá ÃÈæÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã): íÇÍãÑÇä Åä ÒÑÇÑÉ íÞæá: Åä ÌÈÑÆíá (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÅäãÇ ÌÇÁ ãÔíÑÇ Úáì ÑÓæá Çááå (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå) æ ÕÏÞ ÒÑÇÑÉ ÅäãÇ ÌÚá Çááå Ðáß Åáì ãÍãÏ (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå) ÝæÖÚå æÃÔÇÑ ÌÈÑÆíá (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) Èå [Úáíå] (ÍÓä)

1. Ali bin Ibrahim from his father (Ibrahim bin Hashim) from Ibn Abi Umayr from Umar bin Udhayna from Zurara (bin A’yan) who said : I was seated with Abi Abdillah (a.s), me and Humran bin A’yan, so Humran said to him : what do you say about what Zurara says - and I have opposed him in it? So Abu Abdillah (a.s) said : and what is it (i.e which he sayeth, that which you oppose)? (Humran) said : he believes that the timings of the Prayers were left upto ( delegated unto) the messenger of Allah (s.a.w.w) (i.e to decide upon), and that He (s.a.w.w) was the one who placed them (so – as they are), so Abu Abdillah (a.s) said : and what do you say? so (Humran) said : Jibrail came to him on the first of day with the first of the timings and on the last of day with the last of the timings - and then Jibrail said (to the messenger) : what is between these two is the time.

So Abu Abdillah (a.s) said : O Humran, verily what Zurara means (to say) is that Jibrail came to the messenger of Allah (s.a.w.w) (only) to indicate it (generally), and Zurara has spoken the truth, for that was given to Muhammad (s.a.w.w), and he (was the one who) placed them (i.e the timings), and Jibrail gave (only) indications about it.

And this is what I have been trying to tell you

Quran is not giving you timings as such

It is giving you Number of prayers

which is 5

So what about the time for them?

Let us see an authentic narration

We find in Wasail, 4/126,

[4692] 1 Ü ÍãøÏ Èä Úáí Èä ÇáÍÓíä ÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÒÑÇÑÉ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞÇá : ÅÐÇ ÒÇáÊ ÇáÔãÓ ÏÎá ÇáæÞÊÇä ÇáÙåÑ æÇáÚÕÑ ¡ ÝÅÐÇ ÛÇÈÊ ÇáÔãÓ ÏÎá ÇáæÞÊÇä ÇáãÛÑÈ æÇáÚÔÇÁ ÇáÂÎÑÉ .

blank.gif æÑæÇå ÇáÔíÎ ÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÓÚÏ ¡ Úä ãÍãøÏ Èä ÇáÍÓíä ¡ Úä ÇáÍßã Èä ãÓßíä ¡ Úä ÇáäÖÑ Èä ÓæíÏ ¡ Úä ÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÈßíÑ ¡ Úä ÒÑÇÑÉ ãËáå (1) .

Imam Abu Jafar asws said that when Zawal(that is it starts going off its peak) of sun starts, time of Zuhur and Asr starts. When Sun sets, time of Maghrib and Isha starts

Syed Khoi mentioned this narration in his Kitab us Salat, 1/258; and said

æ (ãäåÇ): ÕÍíÍÊå ÇáÃÎÑì Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ (Ú) ÞÇá: ÅÐÇ ÒÇáÊ ÇáÔãÓ ÏÎá ÇáæÞÊÇä: ÇáÙåÑ æÇáÚÕÑ¡ æÅÐÇ ÛÇÈÊ ÇáÔãÓ ÏÎá ÇáæÞÊÇä: ÇáãÛÑÈ æÇáÚÔÇÁ ÇáÂÎÑÉ

Similary Agha Raza Hamdani writes in his Misbaah ul Faqih

ÕÍíÍÉ ÒÑÇÑÉ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ÞÇá ÅÐÇ ÒÇáÊ ÇáÔãÓ ÏÎá ÇáæÞÊÇä ÇáÙåÑ æÇáÚÕÑ æÅÐÇ ÛÇÈÊ ÇáÔãÓ ÏÎá ÇáæÞÊÇä ÇáãÛÑÈ æÇáÚÔÇÁ

So, it is authentic narration, as mentioned by Scholars

There is another narration as well, which supports this one

In Wasail, 4/127

[4696] 5 Ü æÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÓÚÏ Èä ÚÈÏÇááå ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãøÏ ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÓÚíÏ ¡ æãÍãøÏ Èä ÎÇáÏ ÇáÈÑÞí æÇáÚÈøÇÓ Èä ÇáãÚÑæÝ ÌãíÚÇð ¡ Úä ÇáÞÇÓã Èä ÚÑæÉ ¡ Úä ÚÈíÏ Èä ÒÑÇÑÉ ÞÇá : ÓÃáÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Úä æÞÊ ÇáÙåÑ æÇáÚÕÑ ¡ ÝÞÇá : ÅÐÇ ÒÇáÊ ÇáÔãÓ ÏÎá æÞÊ ÇáÙåÑ æÇáÚÕÑ ÌãíÚÇð ¡ ÅáÇø Ãäø åÐå ÞÈá åÐå ¡ Ëãø ÃäÊ æÞÊ ãäåãÇ ÌãíÚÇð ÍÊì ÊÛíÈ ÇáÔãÓ .

blank.gif æÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãøÏ Èä ÚíÓì ¡ Úä ÇáÈÑÞí ¡ Úä ÇáÞÇÓã Èä ÚÑæÉ ¡ äÍæå (1) .

blank.gif æÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÓÚíÏ ¡ Úä ÇáÞÇÓã Èä ÚÑæÉ ¡ ãËáå (2) .

blank.gif æÑæÇå ÇáÕÏæÞ ÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÚÈíÏ Èä ÒÑÇÑÉ ¡ ãËáå (3) .

Imam Abu Abdullah asws was asked about time of Zuhur and Asr, So He replied: When sun fall starts, time of Zuhur and Asr "both" starts. except that this one (Zuhur) is before that one (asr). And the time of both continues till sun sets

why shia performed combine salat on regular bases.why we follow the shortcuts?

No one is forcing you to follow the "Short cut"

I have already said that it is better to perform prayers separately

that is not the topic of discussion

If you can offer them separately, in times of Fadilat, it is better

But the point is, it is allowed. You cannot object to what is allowed..............or otherwise prove that it is not allowed

It is always better that you offer prayers, rather than "Not offering at all"

In my life, as a doctor, I have seen many of my Sunni colleagues who would not offer the "Missed/qada" Prayer at all...............that continues piling up and up.........

You think that attitude is good?

is it not better that you offer it atleast?

This is the basic purpose of Jama, EASE for the Ummat

No one is saying it is Better to offer in combined form, than separate one.

and why 3 adhan aday?

See my post before this one. I had given you references for that. But I guess you are not in mood of seeing them

how many time Holy prophet pbuh performed combine salah in his whole life. i mean what was the ratio of combine and seperate salah.how he was mostly performed salah?

Ok, let us say for the sake of argument that He did it once only.

fine ?

Now, can we say it is Haram just because He did it only once????

You are not in mood of getting the point at all.

It was for the sake of Ease............It is not best one...............

May be you live a sedentary life, or You are very practising Muslim

Of course, this is very good. But the point is, Islam is not just for people like you

there are people who have busy routines, or they may not be that practising muslims like you

What to do with them? Kill them? or tell them You can just offer prayers in 5 times, and if they miss it, they should Miss it altogether like many of my sunni colleagues

You think that is a better idea? At least they offer prayers in this way

Rather than missing them altogether

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I pray 5 distinct times whenever possible. I follow a sunni schedule, as it is hard to come by a 5 times a day shia schedule where I live.

In my opinion, we've taken an allowance for when situations may be difficult, and made it into a rule. The prophet may have combined prayer from time to time, even when it wasn't urgent to do so, but he didn't do it everyday like we do.

I don't see why any Shia would want to combine prayers when it would be possible to say 5 distinct prayers.

1. There is no 'sunni schedule', each madhab has it's own timings

2. The reason people probably don't pray at 5 different times is because the time of salatul 'asr begins as soon as dhuhr is complete and the time of salatul 'isha as soon as maghrib is complete.

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Imam Abu Abdullah asws was asked about time of Zuhur and Asr, So He replied: When sun fall starts, time of Zuhur and Asr "both" starts. except that this one (Zuhur) is before that one (asr). And the time of both continues till sun sets

i mentioned this letter 3 to 4 time but i guess no one noticed it

according to the letter on hazrat ali a.s in najhul balagha

"Lead the Zohr prayers till the shadow of a wall becomes equal to the height of the wall. The Asr prayers can be performed till the sun is still bright and enough time of the day is left for a person to cover a distance of six miles. The maghrib prayers should be performed when people open their fast and when Hajj pilgrims return from Arafat. And the time for Isha prayers is when the red glow of the evening twilight disappears from the west… The morning prayers are to be performed when there appears enough light of the dawn for a man to recognize the face of his companion."

Volumn 001, Book 010, Hadith Number 521.

Narated By Saiyar bin Salama : I along with my father went to Abu- Barza Al-Aslarrni and my father asked him, "How

Allah's Apostle used to offer the five compulsory congregational prayers?" Abu- Barza said, "The Prophet used to

pray the Zuhr prayer which you (people) call the first one at mid-day when the sun had just declined The 'Asr

prayer at a time when after the prayer, a man could go to the house at the farthest place in Medina (and arrive)

while the sun was still hot. (I forgot about the Maghrib prayer). The Prophet Loved to delay the 'Isha which you call

Al- Atama and he disliked sleeping before it and speaking after it. After the Fajr prayer he used to leave when a

man could recognize the one sitting beside him and he used to recite between 60 to 100 Ayat (in the Fajr prayer).

these two hadith have some links. but the hadith u mentioned is showing totally a different side.

So bear patiently (O Muhammad SAW) what they say, and glorify the praises of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and during some of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day (an indication for the five compulsory congregational prayers), that you may become pleased with the reward which Allah shall give you.

i guess this ayat shows the time of fajr ,asr and isha

So (give) glory to Allah, when ye reach eventide and when ye rise in the morning.

Yea, to Him be praise, in the heavens and on earth; and in the late afternoon and when the day begins to decline.

this ayat shows 4 time.(fajr,zahr ,asr and maghrib)

Urdu translation of Quran by a Shia (Maulana Farman Ali) mentioned in his tafseer(explanation)that this verse show 5 time of salat.Mostly shia recommended urdu traslated quran of farman ali which is very famous in pakistan

Edited by sahar_zaidi

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