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Do You Know That Ali (raa) Was Black-skinned

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I'm totally against Muslims drawing images because the Prophet (SAWS) forbade us from doing this. However, the fact that drawing images is forbidden in Islam is not what I'm going to talk about in this thread. What I want to talk about in this thread is the fact that I've noticed that Shiites not only draw images of who they say is Ali ibn Abi Taalib, which is forbidden, but they also portray him (RAA) in these images in a way that is in complete contrast to the way that he was described. Read these descriptions of Ali ibn Abi Taalib (RAA) and then look at the way that the Shiites portray him in their images:

In his book Tarikh Al-Khulafaa (The History of the Caliphs), Imam Al-Suyuti described Ali ibn Abi Talib as follows:

æ ßÇä Úáí ÔíÎÇ ÓãíäÇ ÃÕáÚ ßËíÑ ÇáÔÚÑ ÑÈÚÉ Åáì ÇáÞÕÑ ÚÙíã ÇáÈØä ÚÙíã ÇááÍíÉ ÌÏÇ ÞÏ ãáÃÊ ãÇ Èíä ãäßÈíå ÈíÖÇÁ ßÃäåÇ ÞØä ÂÏã ÔÏíÏ ÇáÃÏãÉ

Ali was a heavyset, bald, hairy man of average height which leaned toward shortness. He had a large stomach and a large beard which filled all that was between his shoulders. His beard was white as if it was cotton and he was a shadid al-udma (black-skinned) man.

Qais ibn Rabie' relates from Ibn Ishaaq that he said:

"Ali (ibn Abi Taalib) was short, bald, heavyset, pot-bellied, and flat-nosed; he had small arms and anytime he wrestled with someone, he won."

Ñæì ÞíÓ Èä ÇáÑÈíÚ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÅÓÍÇÞ ÞÇá: ßÇä Úáí (Èä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ) ÞÕíÑÇð ÃÕáÚ ÍÇÏÑÇð ÖÎã ÇáÈØä ÃÝØÓ ÇáÃäÝ ÏÞíÞ ÇáÐÑÇÚíä áã íÕÇÑÚ ÞØ ÃÍÏÇð ÅáÇ ÕÑÚå.

Now compare the descriptions of Ali ibn Abi Taalib above to the way that the Shiites portray him (RAA) in their images below:

19b.jpg13a.jpg

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Now read what this Shia scholar, Ali Al-Kourani Al-Amili, said about Ali Zein Al-Abidin being described as asmar:

أشك في قولهم أسمر ، إلا أن يقصدوا أنه حنطي اللون فمن أين جاءته السمرة وأبواه وأجداده بيضٌ مشربون بحمرة

"I doubt the truth of their description of him as asmar - except if they mean that he was hinti complexioned. Where did he inherit an asmar complexion from when his father and his grandparents were abyad (white) mixed with redness?"

Do you see how little this Islamic scholar knows about the appearance of the Prophet (SAWS) and his family?

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(salam)

1. If he was black skinned do you really think the racist arabs would have even looked at him? or put up with him? especially umar? race doesn't matter but if you are trying to guide the worst of people, you have to do it in a way that they can't escape from - and that would only work if he was an arab - not to mention you would have found waaay more insults in the books.

2. All you have are sunni references

3. "large stomach" / "pot-belly" are obvious insults - more than likely just fake hadith

Edited by Fuan

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(bismillah)

I don't know about Imam `Ali [as], but the other Imams [as] were definitely darker. Most of our Imams [as] (afaik, iirc) were born from slave women - black slave women. The likliness that al-Qa'im [as] is black is high.

The picture thing is still true, although.

في امان الله

Edited by Dar'ul_Islam

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(salam)

1. If he was black skinned do you really think the racist arabs would have even looked at him? or put up with him? especially umar? race doesn't matter but if you are trying to guide the worst of people, you have to do it in a way that they can't escape from - and that would only work if he was an arab - not to mention you would have found waaay more insults in the books.

2. All you have are sunni references

3. "large stomach" / "pot-belly" are obvious insults - more than likely just fake hadith

1. Yes, the Arabs looked at him despite his blackness because the Arabs in general were black in the past:

Ibn Berry said: The Arabs describe their color as black and they describe the color of the Persians as red (white).æ ÞÇá ÇÈä ÈÑí: "ÇáÚÑÈ‏ ‏ÊÕÝ‏ ÃáæÇäåÇ ‏ÈÇáÓæÇÏ‏ ‏æ‏ ‏ÊÕÝ‏ ‏ÃáæÇä‏ ‏ÇáÚÌã‏ ‏ÈÇáÍãÑÉ"

Ibn Sayyida said: "...They are Arabs and their colors are adam, asmar, and black."ÞÇá ÇÈä ÓíÏå ... Ýåã ÚÑÈ¡ æÃáæÇäåã ÇáÃÏãÉ æÇáÓãÑÉ æÇáÓæÇÏ

Abu Taalib Al-Nahwi said: "... It is said that he meant that he was a pure Arab because most Arabs are adam complexioned.ÞÇá ‏ÃÈæ‏ ‏ØÇáÈ‏ ‏ÇáäÍæí:‏ ... ‏æ‏ ‏Þíá‏ ‏ÃÑÇÏ‏‏ ‏Ãäå‏ ‏ãä‏ ‏ÎÇáÕ‏ ‏ÇáÚÑÈ‏ ‏æ‏ ‏Õãíãåã‏ ‏áÃä‏ ‏ÇáÛÇáÈ‏ ‏Úáì‏ ‏ÃáæÇä‏ ‏ÇáÚÑÈ‏ ‏ÇáÃÏãÉ.

Ibn Mandhour said: "The color of the Arabs is asmar and adam - except for a minority who aren't."ÞÇá‏ ‏ÇÈä‏ ‏ãäÙæÑ:‏ ‏‏"‏ÃáæÇä‏ ‏ÇáÚÑÈ‏ ‏ÇáÓãÑÉ‏ ‏æ‏ ‏ÇáÃÏãÉ‏ ‏ÇáÇ ‏ÞáíáÇ"

Mohamed ibn Ahmed Al-Azhari said:"Most Arabs are adam complexioned."* ÞÇá ãÍãÏ Èä ÃÍãÏ ÇáÃÒåÑí (ÕÇÍÈ ÇáÊåÐíÈ): "‏ÇáÛÇáÈ‏ ‏Úáì‏ ‏ÃáæÇä‏ ‏ÇáÚÑÈ‏ ‏ÇáÃÏãÉ‏"‏.

And Umar, too, was described as black-skinned:

ÞÇá íæÓÝ Èä ÇáÒßí ÚÈÏÇáÑÍãä ÃÈæ ÇáÍÌÇÌ ÇáãÒí Ýí ßÊÇÈå ÊåÐíÈ ÇáßãÇá:

"æßÇä (ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ (ÑÖì Çááå Úäå)) ÂÏã ÔÏíÏ ÇáÃÏãÉ ØæÇáÇ ßË ÇááÍíÉ ÃÕáÚ ÃÚÓÑ íÓÑ íÎÖÈ ÈÇáÍäÇÁ æÇáßÊã...åßÐÇ æÕÝå ÒÑ Èä ÍÈíÔ æÛíÑå ÈÃäå ßÇä ÂÏã ÔÏíÏ ÇáÃÏãÉ æåæ ÇáÃßËÑ ÚäÏ Ãåá ÇáÚáã ÈÃíÇã ÇáäÇÓ æÓíÑåã æ ÃÎÈÇÑåã

Yousef ibn Al-Zaki ibn Abdel Rahman Abu Al-Hajjaj Al-Mizzi said in his book Tahdheeb Al-Kamaal:

"He (Umar ibn Al-Khattab (RAA) was black-skinned (very adam), tall, thick-bearded, bald, ambidextrous, and he dyed his hair with henna and katim...Zarr ibn Hubaish and others described him this way - they described him as very adam complexioned (black-skinned). This is the way that he was described by most scholars knowledgeable of the biographies and the stories of the people of the past and their news."

2. Do you find a problem with them? Do you have a reason to doubt them?

3. What's wrong with a large stomach? Why is that an insult? It's just an honest description of him (RAA). It is reported that Ali ibn Abi Talib (RAA) was asked about his large stomach and he replied that half of it is food and half of it is knowledge.

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Salamunalaikum,

Hazrat Ali (as) and the other Imams were the most handsome people of their times and those who malign them are either ignorant or do so out out of some evil intention.

People have tried to spread such beliefs about the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and his family because their leaders could never match the beauty of the family of Bani Hashim.

Their leaders were dark, children of slave women, and ugly so just to save face and to hide their ugliness, they say so about the family of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.)

All those people who spread such beliefs should be ready to face the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) on the day of judgement.

May Allah (s.w.t.) curse those who malign the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and his family

Khudahaafiz

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Salamunalaikum,

Hazrat Ali (as) and the other Imams were the most handsome people of their times and those who malign them are either ignorant or do so out out of some evil intention.

People have tried to spread such beliefs about the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and his family because their leaders could never match the beauty of the family of Bani Hashim.

Their leaders were dark, children of slave women, and ugly so just to save face and to hide their ugliness, they say so about the family of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.)

All those people who spread such beliefs should be ready to face the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) on the day of judgement.

May Allah (s.w.t.) curse those who malign the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and his family

Khudahaafiz

What does being dark have to do with not being handsome?

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Salamunalaikum,

Hazrat Ali (as) and the other Imams were the most handsome people of their times and those who malign them are either ignorant or do so out out of some evil intention.

People have tried to spread such beliefs about the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and his family because their leaders could never match the beauty of the family of Bani Hashim.

Their leaders were dark, children of slave women, and ugly so just to save face and to hide their ugliness, they say so about the family of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.)

All those people who spread such beliefs should be ready to face the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) on the day of judgement.

May Allah (s.w.t.) curse those who malign the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and his family

Khudahaafiz

regardless of the skin tone and color of the Imams (as), your post makes it seem like you think darkskinned and black people are inherently ugly. that is not true, and you should not think that way.

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(salam)

1. If he was black skinned do you really think the racist arabs would have even looked at him? or put up with him? especially umar? race doesn't matter but if you are trying to guide the worst of people, you have to do it in a way that they can't escape from - and that would only work if he was an arab - not to mention you would have found waaay more insults in the books.

I don't think the Arabs would have had much of a problem with a dark skinned Arab. There were probably quite a few of them after all.

2. All you have are sunni references

Here is a Shia reference:

3-261 Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Ishaq al-Taleqani - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Al-Hassan ibn Ali al-Ado’we quoted Ebad ibn Saheeb (ibn Ebad ibn Saheeb), on the authority of his father, on the authority of his forefather, on the authority of Ja’far ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq (MGB), “A man asked the Commander of the Faithful Imam Ali (MGB) about his medium height, big belly and lack of hair on his forehead. The Commander of the Faithful (MGB) replied, ‘The Blessed the Sublime God has created me neither tall nor short, but of medium height so that I can cut a short enemy into two pieces from head to toe, and cut a tall enemy into two pieces from his waist. My belly is big since the Prophet (MGB) opened up to me a gate of knowledge from which a thousand doors to knowledge shall open up. Therefore, knowledge gathered up in my belly. And the reason why there is no hair on my forehead is that I have always worn a head armor and gone to fight with the enemy.”

al-khisal, 'three characteristics of Imam Ali', p.312

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/library/hadith/al-khisal/07_3.htm

3. "large stomach" / "pot-belly" are obvious insults - more than likely just fake hadith

These reports seem quite consistent and widespread. Unless some ahadith can be found that say something differs, there is no obvious reason to reject them.

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You start off with your extremely limited cherry picked selection of accounts to tell us all that Ali (as) was bald, fat, black, short and had small arms.

What else is the actual purpose of this thread then if not to hurt the Shia of Ali (as) by calling our Imams ugly with the help of that particular selection of accounts that helps you portray a physically less desirable or ugly image of them?

Edited by Darth Vader

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This is a description of Imam Musa (a) ibn Ja'far (a)

"Then a Sheikh entered who had become pale due to extensive worshipping. He was slim and wrinkled. His face and nose were affected by the extent of prostrations."

uyun akhbar, vol.1, 7:11 (p.156) http://www.maaref-fo...glish/index.htm

Apart from these pictures, can anyone bring any narrations that describe Imam Ali عليه السلام, because most of what is in the o.p. also seems to be in that hadith al-sadooq included in al-khisal.

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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Apart from these pictures, can anyone bring any narrations that describe Imam Ali عليه السلام, because most of what is in the o.p. also seems to be in that hadith al-sadooq included in al-khisal.

Of course. But what is the point? Isn't this thread also already completely predictable?

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Of course. But what is the point? Isn't this thread also already completely predictable?

No but at least you could try to refute what the o.p. is saying based on other narrations, simply saying he is trying to hurt the shi'a by bringing these narrations isn't a good argument, because some of them are also in our sources.

It can't be denied people have been overly influence by those vile pictures that are circulating, even to the extent that there was thread not long ago, which claimed that Imam Mahdi (a) had been seen in iraq simply because there was a man who looked similar to the pictures.

this is the thread

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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Here is a Shia reference:

3-261 Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Ishaq al-Taleqani - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Al-Hassan ibn Ali al-Ado’we quoted Ebad ibn Saheeb (ibn Ebad ibn Saheeb), on the authority of his father, on the authority of his forefather, on the authority of Ja’far ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq (MGB), “A man asked the Commander of the Faithful Imam Ali (MGB) about his medium height, big belly and lack of hair on his forehead. The Commander of the Faithful (MGB) replied, ‘The Blessed the Sublime God has created me neither tall nor short, but of medium height so that I can cut a short enemy into two pieces from head to toe, and cut a tall enemy into two pieces from his waist. My belly is big since the Prophet (MGB) opened up to me a gate of knowledge from which a thousand doors to knowledge shall open up. Therefore, knowledge gathered up in my belly. And the reason why there is no hair on my forehead is that I have always worn a head armor and gone to fight with the enemy.”

al-khisal, 'three characteristics of Imam Ali', p.312

So what your saying is that if your to tall then you can't fight.

And if you have forehead hair then you don't do Jihad.

And skinny people are stupid???

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It is a well known fact that most of Imam Ali (as) 's meals consisted of dried bread and milk. He would sew his own shoes and barely spend anything on himself for his own pleasure and there is a well known hadith about how he and Bibi Faatima S.A gave their food away 3 days in a row while they were fasting.

I think that pretty much sums up how credible the reports are of him having a "large stomach/pot belly" NauzuBillah

Large stomach and pot belly are terms more reserved for people like Muawiy L.A and Yazid L.A

Edited by Kirmani

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So what your saying is that if your to tall then you can't fight.

And if you have forehead hair then you don't do Jihad.

And skinny people are stupid???

It's not me saying it, and I don't think you are drawing the right conclusions from the Hadith. Personally, I would agree that the Hadith sounds a little strange. I just posted it in order to show that it exists in our sources as well. However, it wouldn't surprise me if it was a fabrication designed to explain why Imam Ali looked the way he did. I'm not saying that is necessarily the case, but I think that it's certainly a possibility.

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It's not me saying it, and I don't think you are drawing the right conclusions from the Hadith. Personally, I would agree that the Hadith sounds a little strange. I just posted it in order to show that it exists in our sources as well. However, it wouldn't surprise me if it was a fabrication designed to explain why Imam Ali looked the way he did. I'm not saying that is necessarily the case, but I think that it's certainly a possibility.

Brother, the belief that knowledge is stored on the males belly is a Greek belief from when they were pagans.....Imam Ali (as) probably was of medium height, and maybe....just maybe (though I don't thinks so) had his hair pushed back of his forehead....and frankly I don't care if he was black (which he probably wasn't but other Imams were dark) but no way he had a pot belly, if his belly stored his knowledge then did his brain store his food?

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Wa Sallam.

If Ali (as) was black then wouldn't Muhammad (saw) also be black? Abu Talib would have to be dark and thus Abdullah would be black.

Or do you mean dark-skinned from the sun or something? Or that his mother was possibly a black slave?

Ali (as) was known not to eat much. How did he have a large stomach? As a caliph he ate very modestly. Sometimes just water and bread. He did not want to eat anything more than the poorest Muslims at the time...

Imam Ali said: "Eating light meals, and nobility are more lasting for our health. When God the Glorious wishes the well being of His servant, He shall inspire him/her to talk less, to eat less and to sleep less". (Mizan al Hikmat, v1, p 116)

Edited by Goku

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Salamunalaikum,

Hazrat Ali (as) and the other Imams were the most handsome people of their times and those who malign them are either ignorant or do so out out of some evil intention.

People have tried to spread such beliefs about the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and his family because their leaders could never match the beauty of the family of Bani Hashim.

Their leaders were dark, children of slave women, and ugly so just to save face and to hide their ugliness, they say so about the family of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.)

All those people who spread such beliefs should be ready to face the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) on the day of judgement.

May Allah (s.w.t.) curse those who malign the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) and his family

Khudahaafiz

So are you saying that if a person is black-skinned, he can't be handsome??? Are you saying that in order to be handsome, you have to not be dark-skinned??? Where did you get this thinking from? It's certainly not from Islam. Where did you get such satanic thoughts? I'm interested in hearing your response to my questions here.

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You start off with your extremely limited cherry picked selection of accounts to tell us all that Ali (as) was bald, fat, black, short and had small arms.

What else is the actual purpose of this thread then if not to hurt the Shia of Ali (as) by calling our Imams ugly with the help of that particular selection of accounts that helps you portray a physically less desirable or ugly image of them?

Limited cherry picked selection? Look at these:

* َAl-Hafidh Al-Dhahabi describes Ali ibn Abi Taalib as shadid al-udma (black-skinned) here in his book Taarikh Al-Islaam:

وعن الشعبي قال: رأيت علياً أبيض اللحية، ما رأيت أعظم لحية منه، وفي رأسه زغبات. وقال أبو إسحاق: رأيته يخطب، وعليه إزار ورداء، أنزع، ضخم البطن، أبيض الرأس واللحية. وعن أبي جعفر الباقر قال: كان علي آدم، شديد الأدمة، ثقيل العينين، عظيمهما، وهو إلى القصر أقرب.

* Ibn Jawzi describes Ali ibn Abi Taalib as shadid al-udma (black-skinned) in his book Safwat Al-Safwa.

* Al-Balaadhari describes Ali ibn Abi Taalib as shadid al-udma (black-skinned) here in his book Ansaab Al-Ashraaf:

وكان علي آدم شديد الادمة، ثقيل العينين، ضخم البطن، أصلع ذا عضلات ومناكب، في أذنيه شعر قد خرج من أذنه، وكان إلى القصر أقرب

* Al-Suyuti describes Ali ibn Abi Taalib as shadid al-udma (black-skinned) here in Taarikh Al-Khulafaa:

‏‏"‏‏و‏ ‏كان‏‏ ‏علي‏ (بن‏ ‏ابي‏ ‏طالب )‏شيخا‏،‏ ‏سمينا،‏ ‏‏أ‏صلع،‏‏ ‏كثير‏ ‏الشعر،‏ ‏ربعة‏ ‏الى‏ ‏القصر،‏ ‏عظيم‏ ‏البطن،‏ ‏عظيم‏ ‏اللحية‏ ‏جدا،‏ ‏قد‏ ‏ملأت‏ ‏ما‏ ‏بين‏ ‏منكبيه،‏ ‏بيضاء‏ ‏كأنها‏ ‏قطن،‏ ‏آدم‏ ‏شديد‏ ‏الأدمة‏"‏.‏

* Ibn Abdel Barr describes Ali ibn Abi Taalib as shadid al-udma (black-skinned) here:

وسئل أبو جعفر محمد بن علي بن الحسين عن صفة علي رضي الله عنه فقال: كان رجلاً آدم شديد الأدمة، مقبل العينين عظيمهما ذا بطن

أصلع ربعة إلى القصر لا يخضب

* Ahmed ibn 'Amru ibn Al-Dahhaak Abu Bakr Al-Shaibaani describes Ali ibn Abi Taalib (RAA) as shadid al-udma (black-skinned) here:

ومن ذكر علي بن أبي طالب

ابن عَبْد المطلب بن هاشم بن عَبْد مناف بن قصي بن مرة بن كعب بن لؤي يكنى أبا الحسن رَضِيَ الله تعالى عنه واسم أبي طالب عَبْد مناف بن عَبْد المطلب واسم عَبْد المطلب شيبة بن هاشم واسم هاشم عَمْرو بن عب مناف واسم عَبْد مناف المغيرة بن قصي واسم قصي زيد بن كلاب بن مرة بن كعب بن لؤي وكان آدم شديد الأدمة ثقيل العينين عظيمها وقد قالوا أعمش ذا بطن سمنا أصلع دون الربعة عظيم اللحية رضوان الله عليه

* Al-'Allaama Mohamed ibn Talha Al-Shaafa'ie describes Ali ibn Abi Taalib as shadid al-udma (black-skinned) here:

كان عليه السلام آدم شديد الادمة، ظاهرة السمرة، عظيم العينين، أقرب إلى القصر من الطول لم يتجاوز حد الاعتدال في ذلك، ذا بطن كثير الشعر، عريض اللحية، أصلع أبيض الرأس واللحية

* Al-Safadi describes Ali ibn Abi Taalib as shadid al-udma (black-skinned) here:

وكان رضي الله عنه رجلاً آدم شديد الأدمة ثقيل العينين عظيمهما، ذا بطن أصلع ربعة إلى القصر لا يخضب

Ibn Asaakir says in Taarikh Dimisq:

وقال زهير بْن معاوية : كَانَ علي يكنى أبا قاسم ، وكان رجلًا آدم شديد الأدمة ، ثقيل العينين عظيمهما ، ذا بطن ، أصلع ، وهو إلى قصر أقرب ، وكان أبيض الرأس واللحية ،

Zuhair ibn Muawia said:

"Ali had the kunya Abu Qaasim and he was shadid al-udma (black-skinned) with big, heavy eyes, a big belly, bald, leaned toward shortness, and he had white hair and a white beard."

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You start off with your extremely limited cherry picked selection of accounts to tell us all that Ali (as) was bald, fat, black, short and had small arms.

What else is the actual purpose of this thread then if not to hurt the Shia of Ali (as) by calling our Imams ugly with the help of that particular selection of accounts that helps you portray a physically less desirable or ugly image of them?

You, unfortunately, believe that black-skinned means ugly. That's your problem and you have to answer to Allah for having such beliefs.

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Brother, the belief that knowledge is stored on the males belly is a Greek belief from when they were pagans.....Imam Ali (as) probably was of medium height, and maybe....just maybe (though I don't thinks so) had his hair pushed back of his forehead....and frankly I don't care if he was black (which he probably wasn't but other Imams were dark) but no way he had a pot belly, if his belly stored his knowledge then did his brain store his food?

I think it's pretty well known that he was bald (although in any case it's Sunnah for men to shave their head as they get older), and as for the large stomach that could have been due to his muscular physique. He wouldn't have been much of a warrior if he was skinny. I don't think there is much reason to doubt that he was of medium height either.

I don't think there is anything wrong with any of this, even if it doesn't match current common perceptions of what he should have looked like.

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I think it's pretty well known that he was bald (although in any case it's Sunnah for men to shave their head as they get older), and as for the large stomach that could have been due to his muscular physique. He wouldn't have been much of a warrior if he was skinny. I don't think there is much reason to doubt that he was of medium height either.

I don't think there is anything wrong with any of this, even if it doesn't match current common perceptions of what he should have looked like.

Yes he very well could have been bald and of medium height......but it is one thing to say muscular and a whole other to say big bellied.

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As far as i have read, Imam Ali (as) physical body is never recorded. For example: Its well known Hazrat Abbas (as) looked ALOT like Imam Ali (as) to the point when in Siffin people couldnt tell if Imam Ali (as) is fighting or someone else. Also known fact is Hazrat Abbas was VERY tall, when he used to sit on horse his feet used to touch the ground ( we are talking about over 7 feet here now). So there goes the hypothesis of medium height.

Hazrat Abbas was also called the Moon of Bani Hashim, again if that is used as reference then Imam Ali (as) probably was really handsome too.

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