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Question About Marriage Proposal Hadith

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Also as for pernament marriage in the future... I would look into a polygamus guy who is open to have more than one wives. usually these types of guys dont care if she is virgin or not .

:huh:

What happened to the old IS!?

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you have issues go see a doctor, you think muta is better then permanent marriage you have something else coming your way. how about if you pregnant with the muta guy then he leaves you what are you going to do then. start crying to your mummy

That was rude and uncalled for. She didn't even say she was going to agree to his proposal. She was only trying to inquire if the hadith he quoted was used out of context or not!

Anyway I am sure the unwarranted attack on her is because of her gender because most likely had it been a brother you would all be egging him on to go for it.

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Also as for pernament marriage in the future... I would look into a polygamus guy who is open to have more than one wives. usually these types of guys dont care if she is virgin or not .

You don't have to close doors on yourself like that... not all unmarried men demand virgin women.

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Anyway I am sure the unwarranted attack on her is because of her gender because most likely had it been a brother you would all be egging him on to go for it.

Yes, that's true, but why the double standards when it's 'all halal'? :(

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You don't have to close doors on yourself like that... not all unmarried men demand virgin women.

nah i think it would work out the best in a polygmus marriage. The reason I say that is because I want to maintain my freedom, and not always do housework. I can go work and the other three can take care of the children ...

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Yes, that's true, but why the double standards when it's 'all halal'? :(

Well what did you expect?

I mean what gives?

When we attempt to tell them to be cautious we are called horrible names and abused.

Then when a sister makes a post accepting of it she is attacked.

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nah i think it would work out the best in a polygmus marriage. The reason I say that is because I want to maintain my freedom, and not always do housework. I can go work and the other three can take care of the children ...

Other than the fact that cooking and some other such things are actually the responsibility of the husband...

Haha, that's provided there are three others available, and they don't also want to enjoy freedom like you in the first place :)

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Salam to all,

I just want to add that, from what I know, the hadith applies to marriage. Since muta' is marriage, it also applies to that because there is nothing in the ahadith that would exclude mut'a from it.

At the same time, there are rules related to virgins and marriage. Most marjaa' say that a virgin needs the consent of her Wali to get married. The condition of uthool (the Wali is unfit to make the decision because of rejecting a suitable candidate based on unislamic criteria) would only apply if he asked for the lady for mut'ah and then the Wali turned him down. Some (like Sayyid Fadlallah(r.a) say that the consent of the Wali isn't necessary if the girl is financially independent and does not live with the Wali. So according to the majority of marjaa he must ask the Wali if the girl is not financially independent and/ or still living with her parents, regardless.

If the guy is not willing to ask the Wali (and the girl is a virgin), then the marriage in null and void, Islamically, according to most Marjaa' because one of the conditions for the marriage was not fulfilled (again, according to most Marjaa'). Just thought I'd add that because this happens all the time and in most cases it is haram.

Edited by Abu Hadi

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If the guy is not willing to ask the Wali (and the girl is a virgin), then the marriage in null and void, Islamically, according to most Marjaa' because one of the conditions for the marriage was not fulfilled (again, according to most Marjaa'). Just thought I'd add that because this happens all the time and in most cases it is haram.

If a certain marja, such as Sayyid Sistani says that out of obligatory precaution a rashida woman needs the consent of her wali, and another marja, such as Sayyid Rohani says she doesn't, then in any case the muqalid of Sistani can take Rohani's fatwa since Sistani's was only out of obligatory precaution. I therefore seriously doubt that Sistani would say that the marriage of someone who took Rohani's fatwa was null and void (or even haram).

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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I wasn't aware of the fatwa from Rohani. Anyway, for me, and this is IMO, if I do taqlid to a marjaa' and consider him the most knowledgeable and he says 'out of ihtiyyat, you should do this / not do this' I will follow his ihtiyyat on the subject (unless, of course, it is literally impossible for me to follow it) because I consider him the most knowledgeable. This has served me well in my life, but others may have different opinions.

Edited by Abu Hadi

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(bismillah)

(salam)

If a certain marja, such as Sayyid Sistani says that out of obligatory precaution a rashida woman needs the consent of her wali, and another marja, such as Sayyid Rohani says she doesn't, then in any case the muqalid of Sistani can take Rohani's fatwa since Sistani's was only out of obligatory precaution. I therefore seriously doubt that Sistani would say that the marriage of someone who took Rohani's fatwa was null and void (or even haram).

I don't think they can just move onto Sayed Rohani's (ha) fatwa if their marja' has an obligatory precaution fatwa unless they are sure that he is the 2nd most knowledgeable [i may be wrong though]

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I don't think they can just move onto Sayed Rohani's (ha) fatwa if their marja' has an obligatory precaution fatwa unless they are sure that he is the 2nd most knowledgeable [i may be wrong though]

That's true, but I doubt there is any marja out there who says that doing mut`a with a rashida virgin is outright haram, so in any case you could just keep moving down the chain until you got to Rohani (or someone else who gave the same fatwa). There are sahih ahadith that say it's allowed after all. Also, considering Rohani became a mujtahid at 14, I don't think it would be very unlikely that he would be near the top of most people's list when it came to most knowledgeable marjas.

I wasn't aware of the fatwa from Rohani. Anyway, for me, and this is IMO, if I do taqlid to a marjaa' and consider him the most knowledgeable and he says 'out of ihtiyyat, you should do this / not do this' I will follow his ihtiyyat on the subject (unless, of course, it is literally impossible for me to follow it) because I consider him the most knowledgeable. This has served me well in my life, but others may have different opinions.

Sure, but the rules of taqlid allow someone else to be consulted. Anyway, the point is that it is not correct to say someone's marriage would be null and void in these circumstances.

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^^^eh sister nice replies...but I dont think even in a permanent marriage one can stay committed for that long or that both can hold true to their word...People change each year...their personalities change, their values, their character even...and so you begin to outgrow each other. With Mot3ahs when the spark begins to wan, and you know your values are beginning to clash with each other.. you can just end it before it gets worse and one has children and is stuck......

sis, marriage is good for us (women), we need partner in life, someone to share everything but it's hard to find that someone who's almost perfect. mutta is halal and it is the best thing to do to make your meetings and conversations with someone halal, to study them closely....other than that mutta is mainly recommended for divorced women or those who their men died so they could have sex since the woman is not a virgin.

Mutta is also recommended for virgins if haram is feared but it is better for divorced/widowers... so best stay away from him and if he is really serious about you he will do the right thing and marry you even without mutta. that's what a real man who loved/liked a girl would do. but if he's a person who is so much interested in lust then this could be some thing you should worry about. I don't think someone (esp a woman) should be prepared to spend part of their life with someone who wants nothing form them apart using them for sex. esp if the mutta partner was someone who had previously indulged in mutta, chances are they may be sex maniac, who knows. honestly, there's so much to worry about when the person is just a mutta partner.

Now, if you like this guy you should have no fear going for nikah (just include your conditions) all of your DO's and DON'Ts. leave nothing out... it is really important you are in a nikah but yet at the same time you are not in prison... a husband can not do anything if you voiced your conditions before the nikah in front of the shiekh and wrote them down.... otherwise you may end up in a situation you wouldn't like, in a bad marriage and you can't get out of it. Keep your guards up sister, you can't live all your life thinking you can't commit or doubt everyone you meet. when you meet the right one you would know without any doubt cause he will only be interested in you without any conditions.

May Allah (swt) guide you to what is best always.... Ameen!

Edited by Ismahan007

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Yes, that's true, but why the double standards when it's 'all halal'? :(

its not double standards

when we promote for men to marry in muta there are two scenarios

1) marry a good girl and use that muta as an engagement or an initial marriage to turn it into permenant.

we should never tell men to go and use the good girl then dump her,,, I myself have been in situations where I was married to girls and have the opportunity to take things further but I pull back because I know the girl is not suitable for me so I hold myself from sleeping with her eventhough she is willing and in some cases she is the one wanting it,, I dont deny that I also want and am in a poverty position but I just pull back to keep her intact for her future husband so they can have a good future. So in summury we have to shield the people and be conservative and think about thier future and not be wasters and be aware of sampling.

2) scenario two is marry bad girls just to avoid sin and tehre is no harm in that for the men ,,, they can use the bad girl and try to turn her to good and guide her, if she changes then its a bonus if not then they avoided sin...

3) marry divorcee or needy women to shelter them and also aim for permanancy but if life conditions of both or one of you dictates temporary then its okay

the female is naturally monogomist and hence fatimat alzahra said : the best of the women is the one that less men talked to her and saw her

ideally the girl looks for her permenant husband... why would she want to be left after a while in temporary???

The ideal marriage is permenant which is what men and women should aim for because seperation is harmful eventhough its not divorce

but its very different when we encourage the men to marry we are not encouraging them to play and dump the girls after muta but to settle and aim for permenanacy in which muta is used as a tool towards that aim.

but if a man has gone with more than one woman its not a big issue because the man is naturally polygamist and thats his nature but when a girl goes with too many men with no good reason its not healthy for her as she begins to compare the men while polyandry is prohibited so it will create negative thoughts in her head also she will not be materialisticly desired either as she would be seen more like a public property that was used by everyone...

what you also need to thiink about is the nature of the relation between the man and woman

the man uses the woman and has jealousy over her ( desire of posession). he wants her to be exclusively for him,,,, this trait is encouraged for the males according to islam .....

So if a man went with more than one woman its not a bad thing its actually shows he has potential but if a woman goes with many men (for no good reason) it means she is being used by too many men and hence she becomes public property and materialisticly undesireable to the people ...

it also shows that she is going against her monogomist nature if she kept changing for no good reason.

also to be careful of wasting as the prophet said : "god hates the sampling women and men" so using muta or permenant marriage just to sample around is a bad thing and constitutes wastage

its like biting a piece of each apple and throwing the rest,,, its an act of wasting,,,, if the girl is good why not keep her as a permenant wife ? i bet you most men have not clocked thier 4 positions so what excuse do they have to end the relationship and not turn it into permenant?

only if life circumstances force them or the girl is bad then thats another story...

The man is very different and he can go with ore than one woman it woudltn harm him...

Edited by alimohamad40

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Wow alimohamad40... enjoy the feast ImAli!

Oh that is just from one of his templates...

Anyway he didn't answer the question....was the hadith used out of context or not! In my opinion the guy was trying to emotionally blackmail the OP using religion.

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Also he told me about this hadith to ease my fear of committing to him. I dont have the extact hadith with me, but it talks about how a girl shouldnt reject a guy that is religious and a potential mate. Does that include mot3ah as well ? And can someone give me the exact hadith for this?

Salaam alaikum,

1. The haddith mentions the word marriage (which doesn’t specify permanent or temporary marriage), so I would not cancel out the possibility that it could also apply to temporary marriage.

This haddith is giving the general rule for marriage selection, however in every situation one needs to consider whether any secondary Islamic rules apply, which may have an effect on what is the preferred decision to make in that situation.

For example:

- There is a rule that it is makrooh to do temporary marriage with virgins, so one would need to study whether the benefit of this marriage would outweigh the harm in it.

- There is another general Islamic rule that one should do what will bring them closer to Allah (swt) and keep away what will take them further away from Allah سبحانه وتعالى. So the girl would need to study what she would gain from this marriage.

For example, the benefit in marrying someone who had a lot of knowledge for a few years (and learning from him), may exceed the harm that would come from the separation (if the life circumstances did not allow the two to marry permanently, and she could not find someone else suitable to marry permanently).

But in a different example, if a girl married a man for a week, the harm from the separation would most likely outweigh the benefits of the time together.

- There is another rule that if one is afraid of falling into sin due to not being married, then they must marry. So if the girl can not find anyone suitable to marry permanently, then the benefit of marrying the man temporarily would outweigh the harm that would come from it.

On the other hand the mot3ah idea is growing on me a little bit each day. The mot3ah guy-lets call him -The Human Torch" as he is a sweeth heart but with a rage issue. Never the less he seems genuine and at the same time he is modern, fun to be around, and tries to learn more about religion. I'm always on the fence when it comes to Mot3ah requests, because I'm aware of the risks,

2. I think in the case of a man proposing temporary marriage only to a woman (without the aim of permanent marriage for the future), she needs to study the reasons why he is doing this.

If there are genuine life circumstances that prevent the couple from being able to marry permanently in the future (which is rare), then the marriage is worth considering, (if greater benefit than harm would come from it).

But if there are no genuine life circumstances that would prevent the couple from marrying permanently in the future, then this would indicate to me that there is a high possibility that there is a problem with the man (who only wants to take a virgin girl in temporary marriage and thinks there is a big chance he will leave her). And there is most likely a problem with his deen and akhlaq, because he is willing to be a waster (which Allah condemns in the Quran).

If he is willing to be a waster this would show me that this haddith no longer applies to him, and the girl is no longer recommended to marry him because there is a problem with his deen/akhlaq.

If pleasing Allah (swt) were really important to him then should aim to keep the girl after making her attached to him, he would be a waster if he is willing to discard the girl when he could have had a future with her.

If the girl is good, there is nothing wrong with a couple deciding to start their marriage life in a temporary contract (because the conditions are better for them), but they should enter temporary with an aim for permanent marriage in the future.

If the girl is bad and does not want to change, of course this is a different scenario, but if the girl is good there is no reason why any Muslim man should not try to keep her.

but I dont think even in a permanent marriage one can stay committed for that long or that both can hold true to their word...People change each year...their personalities change, their values, their character even...and so you begin to outgrow each other.

3. You say that some of the reasons that you prefer temporary marriage to permanent are that you are afraid of the risk of growing apart from your spouse due to changing values, personalities, etc. It seems however that you do want to have a permanent marriage some time in the future, (because you mentioned the idea of having children, when you said your co-wives could help looking after the children). So the problem I see is that the reasons you are apprehensive about permanent marriage will not go away in the future on their own, you will need to confront these ideas either now or in the future in order to make your apprehension disappear.

I believe it is better for you to confront these ideas now, because if you leave it to later, you may end up needlessly going through the hurt of the separation after temporary marriage (when you could have been enjoying your life with your permanent husband). You may also have other regrets due to delaying permanent marriage, for example the best years of fertility are in the late teens to early twenties (so if you can only start trying for children later in your fertile years, you may regret this lost opportunity if you later find it hard to conceive the number of children that you desire).

The way for you to confront the fears you have about the big chances of the spouses growing apart, is to realise that this growing apart can be mostly avoided if one conducts a proper spouse selection process and chooses someone who displays stable and good characteristics and objectives (as mentioned in the spouse selection haddith).

For example if one knows how to identify a person whose objective in life strongly appears to be to please Allah, then that person will most likely not suddenly change in their objectives because they have a true fear of the consequences of disobeying Allah سبحانه وتعالى.

Of course this depends on both of the people sincerely desiring to be closer to Allah سبحانه وتعالى. If they are motivated by this objective then it is highly unlikely that either would move away from this objective. If people have other objectives in life, they will only stay interested in one another while their objectives remain compatible. And the truth is that if their objective is not obeying Allah سبحانه وتعالى, then they will have much bigger problems to worry about in life than just having a failed marriage and failed family life!

The key is to make sure you are happy with your own religion and objectives in life, and then to learn how to identify good religion and behaviour in others (as Islam recommends). Then inshallah the permanent marriage that you choose to enter would lead to a stable and fulfilling future, marriage and family life for you and your children.

Edited by always searching sister

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you are 1 one the few girls who wont flip out at a mutah proposal. dont ask here about the hadith ... ask an alim because they say mutah is big time makhruh for a virgin ...

if you do mutah and the community finds out ... then say goodbye to premenant marriage with the decent guys.

I'm a girl, and I won't flip out about Mut3a. I also strongly agree that you won't be able to find a decent man if you've done mutah in the past. I don't think that applies to Mut3a without sex.

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^

Salaam alaikum,

I think that depends on your definition of 'decent'. I would not consider a man decent, if he refuses to marry a girl who had good religion and manners just because she married before (and she didn't have a bad reason for leaving the first husband). I would consider such a man a loser, because he is losing the chance to have a spouse who could lead him and his children closer to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

Anyway, there are very few men (and women) who I would consider to be decent in this day and age. But because the girl is placing her future and her children's future in the hands of the man, then she should make the required effort and filter out all the bad people and seek to find someone who is truely decent.

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Salaam

As far as I remember what is makrooh is not muta with virgin but it's the consummating of the muta with virgin

Regarding precaution fatwas, you have two options:

- Preferably, to consult a scholar who has a definite fatwa (regardless allowing or prohibiting)

- Otherwise, to just take the precaution, but sometimes if the scholar has many precaution fatwas (due to his uncertainty) this will disable your life by prohibitng the lawful, and hence opening haraam doors due to the unneccesary closure of halaal doors.

This is because, not all precautionary fatwas are based on evidence of 'karahiyya' (reprehension), but some of them are based on the uncertainty of the scholar. Therefore if it is based on karahiyya it is better to take the precaution, but if it based on the uncertainity of the scholar, it is better to consult the certain one (irrespective of his opinion, prohibition or allowance, what you like to hear or what you dislike to hear).

Therefore it is prefered to not rely on precautionary fatwas, but rely on definite ones.

Salaam

Edited by alimohamad40

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I'm a girl, and I won't flip out about Mut3a. I also strongly agree that you won't be able to find a decent man if you've done mutah in the past. I don't think that applies to Mut3a without sex.

+1. This happens ESPECIALLY in the subcontinent. Apparently parents don't mind if their kids are hanging out with the opposite gender in dance parties/clubs etc. but will explode like Francium in water when they find out that their daughter has done Mutah... Double standards much dear parents? :wacko:

It astounds me that people are shunned because they did something halaal to gain closeness to Allah. May those who shun be shunned themselves by Allah, crying crocodile tears for Imam Hussain (as) while imposing an unspoken rule of celibacy upon the masses.

Edited by Replicant's Nemesis

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