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Married, Still In Need. Why Shouldn't I Do Mut'ah?

mutah married temporary marriage children

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#1 salman80

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:27 PM

Salamon Alaikom.

The temporary marriage (Mut'ah) of already married men has been a controvertial topic since long. I was not originally one of the suporters of this idea, till few years passed after my marriage and I found the following conditons leaving no Halal choice for me in the lifestyle, except doing Mut'ah.

1. There is a monthly period;
2. The busy lifestyle does not allow the best use of the rest of the time;
3. Decision to have a child, will leave the couple apart for about a year time;
4. Women can phisically tolerate longer separation; and
5. A child or children in general, can fulfill a mother's mental needs.

I have experienced these conditions, and found Mut'ah the only halal way of a relationship answring my needs. Of course to keep my regular life going on smoothly (as I love my wife and children the most), the hiding of such an affair is out of wisodm.

Though I have faced a lot of opposition from the community for variety of non sense reasons, and decided to research a little more for alternatives before doing Mut'ah. I appreciate if you can elaborate your opinion about the following two questions:

1. Why shouldn't I do Mut'ah? What's wrong with it, if I follow its conditions?
2. What can be an alternative halal way of responding to my needs?

Thank you for the time you spend on this.
Wassalam

#2 Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:10 PM

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#3 Marbles

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:15 PM

1. There is a monthly period;


Exercise self-restraint. It's only a few days.

2. The busy lifestyle does not allow the best use of the rest of the time;


What does it even mean?

3. Decision to have a child, will leave the couple apart for about a year time;


Longer self-restraint. A woman in your house is bearing the fruits of your 'labour' - so bear with it.

4. Women can phisically tolerate longer separation; and


Myth.

5. A child or children in general, can fulfill a mother's mental needs.


Gross stereotype - not even relevant.

1. Why shouldn't I do Mut'ah? What's wrong with it, if I follow its conditions?


For all the good reasons to keep a healthy relationship with your wife and family.


FAIL, and an EPIC one at that.

Edited by Marbles, 02 July 2012 - 05:16 PM.

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#4 tahiraansari

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:20 PM

Salams,
Thanks for opening this topic. I have heard so many things in the shari'ah about this and some of them are contradictory. First of all brother, let me tell you... don't ever care what the people say... just care about Allah and the Masaumeen a.s. say.

As a woman and professionally as a marital therapist, and most of all from seeing the women in the community, the most important thing is 1) discuss this before marriage and 2) also discuss the idea of multple wives that are permanent. A lot of men are afraid to do this, but seeing people's experience, it's better this way than just bringing it up later on.
Women's feeling as you know are very sensitive on this issue. I think if it is handled well, it works out a lot better. Example: Men often get bored in their marriage, or unhappy so they 'threaten' their wife with another wife. The woman feels hurt, inadequate as a wife and then the battle is on and it doesn't quit easily.
I don't know what the shariah is on if the current wife has to know or give permission for a temporary (or peremanent ) addidtional wife.
But in any case, if a man makes a woman feel that she is loved and valued and her place not threatened by another wife, everyone will be better off. Then, if the shariah is being followed, all the better for everyone.
Also, depending on the woman, the temporary wife also has to understand and her feelings respected so that she doesn't just feel like the permanent wife is valued, but she as a temporary is not good enough to be married permanently.
Every situation is different, but the key seems to be the way the man handles it because of the woman's sensitive feelings. And anyway, if you've handled it properly and followed the shariah, you can't control how women or anyone feels... you can only do your part and they have to do theirs.
Just an opinion and some things to think about... better to go into this well-prepared than not knowing ... in some situations it can be like walking into a mine field!
Hope it works out well whatever you decide
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#5 Haydar Husayn

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:24 PM

I'd probably be considered one of the biggest 'supporters' of this on here, but I've got to say that your reasons don't seem all that convincing. The monthly period excuse was especially weak.

Anyway, only you know your circumstances, and if you fear falling into sin, then you should do mut`a if you can. However, I'd advise you to think about the possible consequences of this on your wife and children.

Having said all that, it is perfectly halal to do mut`a if you so wish. Just keep in mind that you are living in the real world, and that actions have consequences. Sometimes it's better to give up one of your rights in order to keep the rest of your life in good working order.

Edited by Haydar Husayn, 02 July 2012 - 05:51 PM.

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#6 ילדת מלך

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:31 PM

Are you for real ?---

or is it just a troll post to ignite useless friction ?

Edited by ילדת מלך, 02 July 2012 - 05:39 PM.

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#7 Nocturne

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:46 PM

Salamon Alaikom.

The temporary marriage (Mut'ah) of already married men has been a controvertial topic since long. I was not originally one of the suporters of this idea, till few years passed after my marriage and I found the following conditons leaving no Halal choice for me in the lifestyle, except doing Mut'ah.

1. There is a monthly period;
2. The busy lifestyle does not allow the best use of the rest of the time;
3. Decision to have a child, will leave the couple apart for about a year time;
4. Women can phisically tolerate longer separation; and
5. A child or children in general, can fulfill a mother's mental needs.

I have experienced these conditions, and found Mut'ah the only halal way of a relationship answring my needs. Of course to keep my regular life going on smoothly (as I love my wife and children the most), the hiding of such an affair is out of wisodm.


(wasalam)

Have you analyzed your own role in this? Everything from 1-5 that you mention, were you present with your wife to support her emotionally? helped with house chores? helped with kids? I mean seriously, monthly period as an excuse??? I sure hope you didn't just dump her emotional needs too during those days.

1. Why shouldn't I do Mut'ah? What's wrong with it, if I follow its conditions?
2. What can be an alternative halal way of responding to my needs?


1. Nothing wrong with it.
2. The simple, alternative halal way is to communicate with your wife and arrange to get time in your busy lives.
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#8 Shia_Debater

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:04 PM

(bismillah)

(wasalam)

Don't forget there are other ways that your wife could satisfy your needs... not sure which other ways would be halal, which would be haram, if there are some you could do whilst she was on her period, and others which you couldn't do whilst she was on her period etc..

My suggestion would be to send a message to the office of your marja` with a specific question e.g. I wish to perform action x with my wife whilst she is on her period, is it halal? [or] I wish to perform action x with my wife, is it halal, and also would it be halal if she was on her period? and what if she was pregnant? etc.

Edited by Shia_Debater, 02 July 2012 - 06:10 PM.


#9 Abu Hadi

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:08 PM

Before this thread gets out of control (and it probably will soon), let me just say
#1 is a weak excuse. Every man goes thru this. If you can't wait for a few days, I suggest you do things to strenghten your will power (like mustahab fasting and Salat Al Layl (the midnight prayer).

#2 I don't undestand this one.

#3 I don't know where you got that from. After a child is born, a women is not able to have relations for 10 days and maybe a few more if there were complications from the delivery. 1 year ? That's stretching it unless there are special circumstances.

I don't know about #4 and #5 because I've never been a woman, but I kind of doubt this is true.

From what I've read of hadith (and I admit there are gaps in my knowledge) mutah shouldn't be the first option if
A) You have a wife who is available to you and
B. The time you have to wait is a matter of days. This is where Sabr comes in

At the same time, I'm not going to say that mutah is haram in that situation, because it isn't, but you have to be wise about these things and consider all the variables including the feelings of your wife and the likelyhood that you will actually do haram (and noone knows that except you). If you have a very real fear that you will actually do haram or you are starting to take preliminary steps toward haram, then mutah is always better than doing haram. Otherwise, Sabr is better. That's it in a nutshell.

... worst case scenario you can dry hump..

W/s


Too graphic. Watch it please.

Edited by Abu Hadi, 02 July 2012 - 06:18 PM.

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#10 Haydar Husayn

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:26 PM

(bismillah)

(wasalam)

Don't forget there are other ways that your wife could satisfy your needs... not sure which other ways would be halal, which would be haram, if there are some you could do whilst she was on her period, and others which you couldn't do whilst she was on her period etc..

My suggestion would be to send a message to the office of your marja` with a specific question e.g. I wish to perform action x with my wife whilst she is on her period, is it halal? [or] I wish to perform action x with my wife, is it halal, and also would it be halal if she was on her period? and what if she was pregnant? etc.


This should be sufficient:

باب 3 (1176) 1 - سئل الصادق عليه السلام: ما لصاحب المرأة الحايض منها ؟ فقال: كل شئ ما عدا القبل منها بعينه.

1 – And as-Sadiq عليه السلام was asked: What does the possessor of a menstruating wife have from her? So he said: Everything apart from the front(al area) from her in itself.


(1177) 2 - وسئل عليه السلام: عن الحايض ما يحل لزوجها منها ؟ قال: ما دون الفرج.

2 – And he عليه السلام was asked about the menstruating woman, what of her is allowed for her husband? He said: Whatever is apart from the vulva.


(1178) 3 - وقال عليه السلام: إذا حاضت المرأة فليأتها زوجها حيث شاء ما اتقى موضع الدم.

3 – And he عليه السلام said: When the wife menstruates, then the husband may come to her from wherever he wants so long as he avoids the place of the blood.

http://www.tashayyu.org/hadiths/fusul-2/menstruation-istihada-and-nifas

Edited by Haydar Husayn, 02 July 2012 - 06:26 PM.

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#11 WilayaBlood

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:53 PM

Aslamalaykum,

Do what you think is best for you, only you know your circumstances better than anyone else, no matter how much you try to explain to people.

#12 salman80

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:01 PM


What's wrong bro? Where can I read about this specific problem of mine, in the forum?

#13 forte

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:09 PM

3. Decision to have a child, will leave the couple apart for about a year time;


A year?????? Why a year?

#14 salman80

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:48 PM

With respect to the opinion, I hear all these every day. But do not understand why there is a constant rejection of Mut'ah when this is easily a halal, verified to work, and natural way of responding to the need, which in addition can help the ongoing life remain healthy.


Exercise self-restraint. It's only a few days.

I do, but the need is still there. Exercise will not remove it.

What does it even mean?

It means, when you're working 8 hours/day, and your wife is working 8 hours/day, and as soon as you come back home, you need to take the children for a walk or park, and return at 9pm, almost exhusted, and your wife was cooking, and cleaning while you were with the kids, and she is almost exhusted, what should you expect when you go to bed? Ok, let's keep the affair for the weekend. How many weekends are in a month? How many of them, can you manage to plan for? etc.

Longer self-restraint. A woman in your house is bearing the fruits of your 'labour' - so bear with it.

I do understand this with every cell in my body, and I do appreciate it, and I love her much above it. But the pressure does not go away just by bearing with it. Believe me.

Myth.

I can't find the reference for this right now, so I would say "My wife" instead of women. But do you have the proof otherwise?

Gross stereotype - not even relevant.

Ok, you can say what you want, and I thank you for your opinion, but I have seen that in even older generations. No doubt that there is a bigger of attachemnet between a mother and a child than a father and a child. The love of child easily grows in the heart of mother, I say that, and I say that there is nothing wrong with it. This affects how much a wife is attached to his spouse, for a simple reason: "I only see you 2 hours a day". So the wife learns to fufill her mental needs with her children. This is the nature of a woman being compationate.

For all the good reasons to keep a healthy relationship with your wife and family.

Now I can't understand this. I simply don't see why this is against doing Mut'ah. If Mut'ah just satisfies me in that specific need, and does not compromise the "healthy realtionship with my wife and family", now what? Think a little bit. Doing Mut'ah is NOT against all the good reasons.

FAIL, and an EPIC one at that.


A year?????? Why a year?


You need to experience that.

Salams,
Thanks for opening this topic. I have heard so many things in the shari'ah about this and some of them are contradictory. First of all brother, let me tell you... don't ever care what the people say... just care about Allah and the Masaumeen a.s. say.

As a woman and professionally as a marital therapist, and most of all from seeing the women in the community, the most important thing is 1) discuss this before marriage and 2) also discuss the idea of multple wives that are permanent. A lot of men are afraid to do this, but seeing people's experience, it's better this way than just bringing it up later on.
Women's feeling as you know are very sensitive on this issue. I think if it is handled well, it works out a lot better. Example: Men often get bored in their marriage, or unhappy so they 'threaten' their wife with another wife. The woman feels hurt, inadequate as a wife and then the battle is on and it doesn't quit easily.
I don't know what the shariah is on if the current wife has to know or give permission for a temporary (or peremanent ) addidtional wife.
But in any case, if a man makes a woman feel that she is loved and valued and her place not threatened by another wife, everyone will be better off. Then, if the shariah is being followed, all the better for everyone.
Also, depending on the woman, the temporary wife also has to understand and her feelings respected so that she doesn't just feel like the permanent wife is valued, but she as a temporary is not good enough to be married permanently.
Every situation is different, but the key seems to be the way the man handles it because of the woman's sensitive feelings. And anyway, if you've handled it properly and followed the shariah, you can't control how women or anyone feels... you can only do your part and they have to do theirs.
Just an opinion and some things to think about... better to go into this well-prepared than not knowing ... in some situations it can be like walking into a mine field!
Hope it works out well whatever you decide


Thanks sister, and I appreciate your comment. I have summerized all you kindly suggested in the term "following its conditions". I was rather thinking of hiding the Mut'ah from my wife, which is the recommended act by Masoomeen (Alayhemo Salaam).

I'd probably be considered one of the biggest 'supporters' of this on here, but I've got to say that your reasons don't seem all that convincing. The monthly period excuse was especially weak.

Anyway, only you know your circumstances, and if you fear falling into sin, then you should do mut`a if you can. However, I'd advise you to think about the possible consequences of this on your wife and children.

Having said all that, it is perfectly halal to do mut`a if you so wish. Just keep in mind that you are living in the real world, and that actions have consequences. Sometimes it's better to give up one of your rights in order to keep the rest of your life in good working order.


100% agree, and thank you. Personally I am very conservative and won't be considering to compromise my current blessings to any extent. I did not want to prove a general scenario for every gentleman, rather to make a conclusion of what I thought was the reason that the need is still killing me. Cause the real fact is that my need is still there, and my wife doe not have any flaws, so it should be the nature of the matter. Tell me if this conclusion is not right.

Are you for real ?---

or is it just a troll post to ignite useless friction ?


Sincerely real. I am going to do Mut'ah insha'Allah. Have discussed that a lot with fellow friends, but just got 1 in 10 positive views. Just wanted to broaden the "Mashwarah" circle, hoping for Allah's light to come out of a brother's/sister's words to strengthen my decision.

(wasalam)

Have you analyzed your own role in this? Everything from 1-5 that you mention, were you present with your wife to support her emotionally? helped with house chores? helped with kids? I mean seriously, monthly period as an excuse??? I sure hope you didn't just dump her emotional needs too during those days.

Honestly, yes. We are a really, Alhamdulellah, happy couple. My wife is satisfied with me, if not more, not less than how much I am happy with her.

1. Nothing wrong with it.
2. The simple, alternative halal way is to communicate with your wife and arrange to get time in your busy lives.

I definitely consider 2, before 1.


Edited by salman80, 03 July 2012 - 05:50 PM.

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#15 awaiting_for_the.12th

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:54 PM

Thanks sister, and I appreciate your comment. I have summerized all you kindly suggested in the term "following its conditions". I was rather thinking of hiding the Mut'ah from my wife, which is the recommended act by Masoomeen (Alayhemo Salaam).

umm really? Recommended?
Anyways, Mutah is a halal act and as far as i know a guy doesnt need a reason to do it (same with second marriage). There was no need to list your reasons for doing Mutah as all of them are weak, but have you tried talking to your wife? You say you love her then talk to her about this and tell her that you need her support. As far as i can tell, you made up your mind initially and then tried to justify it with really weak reasons. Mutah is halal, if you want to do it then do it.

Your Prophet (pbuh) also said that I promise salvation to one who controls whats between their mouth (tongue) and whats between their legs.

#16 salman80

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:59 PM

(bismillah)

(wasalam)

Don't forget there are other ways that your wife could satisfy your needs... not sure which other ways would be halal, which would be haram, if there are some you could do whilst she was on her period, and others which you couldn't do whilst she was on her period etc..

My suggestion would be to send a message to the office of your marja` with a specific question e.g. I wish to perform action x with my wife whilst she is on her period, is it halal? [or] I wish to perform action x with my wife, is it halal, and also would it be halal if she was on her period? and what if she was pregnant? etc.


Mut'ah: 100% halal, no doubt.
Action x: Still don't know halal or haram. Don't know if it is responding well or not. Don't know if my wife likes it or not (so that she agrees).

While your comment is true, and is one thing one can try before considering Mut'ah, choosing among above options is clear.

#17 salman80

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:16 PM

Before this thread gets out of control (and it probably will soon), let me just say
#1 is a weak excuse. Every man goes thru this. If you can't wait for a few days, I suggest you do things to strenghten your will power (like mustahab fasting and Salat Al Layl (the midnight prayer).

#2 I don't undestand this one.

#3 I don't know where you got that from. After a child is born, a women is not able to have relations for 10 days and maybe a few more if there were complications from the delivery. 1 year ? That's stretching it unless there are special circumstances.

I don't know about #4 and #5 because I've never been a woman, but I kind of doubt this is true.

From what I've read of hadith (and I admit there are gaps in my knowledge) mutah shouldn't be the first option if
A) You have a wife who is available to you and
B. The time you have to wait is a matter of days. This is where Sabr comes in

At the same time, I'm not going to say that mutah is haram in that situation, because it isn't, but you have to be wise about these things and consider all the variables including the feelings of your wife and the likelyhood that you will actually do haram (and noone knows that except you). If you have a very real fear that you will actually do haram or you are starting to take preliminary steps toward haram, then mutah is always better than doing haram. Otherwise, Sabr is better. That's it in a nutshell.



Too graphic. Watch it please.


Thanks brother. I have cleared some of my points above, so I don't repeat them. It was better that I mention those first, so it does not look like that I am justifying my point for everybody. But because of the general negative view of Mut'ah for married men, that I never was able to desolve the reasoning behind that, I wanted to listen to more opinions with a hope that I finally can decide in the best way that religion suggests.

Sabr, yes, of course, and everybody says that. But beleive me, it's a long time I am doing that, but the need did not go away. I never put Mut'ah as the first option. But why we people do everything to avoid it? Should I not be satisfied with every matter of my religion? Should I not be afraid if I feel distance with what Allah orders? Fortunately I know the answer for this: Our background is so messed up and overwhelmed by the deviations of second one that we always delay the first solution, might we find another one. So I beleive Mut'ah is first and foremost solution.

This should be sufficient:

باب 3 (1176) 1 - سئل الصادق عليه السلام: ما لصاحب المرأة الحايض منها ؟ فقال: كل شئ ما عدا القبل منها بعينه.

1 – And as-Sadiq عليه السلام was asked: What does the possessor of a menstruating wife have from her? So he said: Everything apart from the front(al area) from her in itself.


(1177) 2 - وسئل عليه السلام: عن الحايض ما يحل لزوجها منها ؟ قال: ما دون الفرج.

2 – And he عليه السلام was asked about the menstruating woman, what of her is allowed for her husband? He said: Whatever is apart from the vulva.


(1178) 3 - وقال عليه السلام: إذا حاضت المرأة فليأتها زوجها حيث شاء ما اتقى موضع الدم.

3 – And he عليه السلام said: When the wife menstruates, then the husband may come to her from wherever he wants so long as he avoids the place of the blood.

http://www.tashayyu....ihada-and-nifas

Thanks for enlightening us with the hadith. I feel safer to stick with my Marja'.

Edited by salman80, 03 July 2012 - 06:30 PM.


#18 Haydar Husayn

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:17 PM

Thanks for enlightening us with the hadith. I feel safer to stick with my Marja'.

By all means, but does your marja say anything different?

#19 salman80

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:25 PM

umm really? Recommended?
Anyways, Mutah is a halal act and as far as i know a guy doesnt need a reason to do it (same with second marriage). There was no need to list your reasons for doing Mutah as all of them are weak, but have you tried talking to your wife? You say you love her then talk to her about this and tell her that you need her support. As far as i can tell, you made up your mind initially and then tried to justify it with really weak reasons. Mutah is halal, if you want to do it then do it.

Your Prophet (pbuh) also said that I promise salvation to one who controls whats between their mouth (tongue) and whats between their legs.



Well, there I meant hiding of it is recommended, and yes, I have seen a lot of narrations especially for the married men. But Mut'ah is also recommended, cause siply it is a valid type of marriage and marriage is a Mustahhab act. Yes, really.

My prophet, may my soul be sacrificed for the dust under his feet, also taught how to conrol. When you're thirsty, a lot of food can not quench that. Food is for your hunger. get some water. Halal one though.

By all means, but does your marja say anything different?


Shall I never know about such a Marja. This is not me to decide upon a few hadith, which I may sacrifice my soul for the narrator, what Allah 's rulling is.

#20 King

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:05 PM

Sure your wife will probably be all heart broken and never love you the same after she finds out about your halal undertakings. The fact of the matter is, weak or strong, you don't need an excuse to do mutah, you can do as many as you please. Happy mutahing.

#21 macisaac

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:13 PM

Sincerely real. I am going to do Mut'ah insha'Allah. Have discussed that a lot with fellow friends, but just got 1 in 10 positive views. Just wanted to broaden the "Mashwarah" circle, hoping for Allah's light to come out of a brother's/sister's words to strengthen my decision.



Ah... so you mean you've never done it then. Sorry to break it to you, but it's not likely going to be so easy as you might think it is by going off the million and one posts on this issue (posts written by virgin brothers still living at home). It's not like there's a number you can call and presto you have a willing halal mut`a partner on hand. And since you already have a Muslim wife, you should realize that mut`a with a kitabi woman would be not be allowed for you (at least by a number of jurists such as Sayyd Sistani), just in case that's what you were thinking...
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#22 salman80

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:18 PM

Sure your wife will probably be all heart broken and never love you the same after she finds out about your halal undertakings. The fact of the matter is, weak or strong, you don't need an excuse to do mutah, you can do as many as you please. Happy mutahing.


That's why I mentioned hiding of the matter from her.

Ah... so you mean you've never done it then. Sorry to break it to you, but it's not likely going to be so easy as you might think it is by going off the million and one posts on this issue (posts written by virgin brothers still living at home). It's not like there's a number you can call and presto you have a willing halal mut`a partner on hand. And since you already have a Muslim wife, you should realize that mut`a with a kitabi woman would be not be allowed for you (at least by a number of jurists such as Sayyd Sistani), just in case that's what you were thinking...


Well, it's a little personal so I don't answer. But yes, you're very true. Finding Mut'ah requires a lot of caution to avoid haram along the way. According to some Maraje, doing non-muslim Mut'ah is allowed for married men, and does not require the wife's permission. But you're right, some Maraje don't allow it without her permission apparently. However, I guess this will be the case only when the non-muslim temporary wife strarted to be considered as the second wife of the man, in the eyes of people, which I beleive most of Maraje didn't allow it. (By non-moslem here, of course I meant either christian or jewish only)

Edited by salman80, 03 July 2012 - 07:24 PM.


#23 Fink

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:26 PM

You're a beast man

with a positive attitude like that you'll have your own football team in no time






#24 Noah107

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:27 PM

1. There is a monthly period;
2. The busy lifestyle does not allow the best use of the rest of the time;
3. Decision to have a child, will leave the couple apart for about a year time;
4. Women can phisically tolerate longer separation; and
5. A child or children in general, can fulfill a mother's mental needs.

I think men make up any old excuses to do Mutah.
1- every mans women has a monthly period.
2-u say ur lifestyle is so busy that u done get time with ur wife! so how will u have time for ANOTHER WOMAN aswell as ur wife?
3-women are good to go after a week or less- my wife had natural birth this was the case.
4-women can not tolerate longer separation as my wife tells me that she cant have me away from her for longer than a week so u better tread carefully friend or you may become responsibal for ur wifes trangressions if you stay away from her in favour of another women, the women whi is the mother of ur child is more important than some 2minute mutah lol
5- NOPE, not the case. women like men need male companionship because they have needs. if this wasnt true then Allah SWT wouldnt have created the clitoris for women

#25 _JuGNii

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:31 PM

You're underage for this topic..get outta here :dry:


I think so am I though..

Bye :mellow:





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