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Ismaili's Don't Believe In Hazrat Ali's Imamat?

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On 30/06/2017 at 10:34 PM, Ali Hasan Ali said:

This is not true. Ismailis believe that Hazrat Ali is the first Imam. The Traditional Ismaili Greeting is “Ya Ali Madad”.

 

On 26/04/2012 at 11:24 PM, RayanJ said:

Is it true that Ismaili folk don't believe that Hazrat Imam Ali (as) was an Imam and that Hazrat Imam Hassan (as) is their first imam?

inshaAllah you will go on ziarat to najaf soon. Ismaili (you can immediately spot them by how they dress) do sujood towards the zarih of ameerul momineen (as) before entering the haram room. similar for Imam Hussain (as) and abul fadhl Abbas (as). they clearly believe he was an Imam.

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Hi Mansoor,

I like your name. I am a fan of Mansoor al Hallaj.

Where in the picture does it say that she is drinking Alcohol. It looks like she is opening a Champagne bottle. There are many non-alcoholic champagnes available in the market. They are basically sparkling water or Soda water.

We believe that everyone is responsible for their own deeds. Allah will Judge each individual by his deeds only. Many of our prophets (not just prophet muhammad, even prophets before Muhammad) and Imam's (right from our first Imam, Imam Ali) had a lot of family members who did not follow the Islamic tenants properly. 

Allah will not judge anyone based on their wives, husbands, brothers, sons, daughters, uncles or aunts behavior. They will be judges on their own behavior.

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^ There are images of Princess Zahra drinking brandy and smoking cigarettes. Instead of denying, you could/should use the argument that she is not the Imam and therefore her actions don't prove anything about the Aga Khan. 

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23 hours ago, Guerrilla said:

^ There are images of Princess Zahra drinking brandy and smoking cigarettes. Instead of denying, you could/should use the argument that she is not the Imam and therefore her actions don't prove anything about the Aga Khan. 

Of-course she is not the Imam. The picture of Zahra drinking and smoking is a totally fake image. I have seen picture of H. Ali using Iphone (Nauzubillah) . But I won't believe it. Wahhabis even claim that our First Imam Ali use to drink. Just because someone is claiming something, I can't believe it.

Her drinking or not does matter to me, that his her private life. She is not my Imam. But just because someone is not my Imam, I can't believe something that is total fake. I am calling it a fake image based on my professional background. I can replace Zahra with any other girl you want me replace her with.

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On 03/07/2017 at 1:01 PM, Ali Hasan Ali said:

Hi Mansoor,

I like your name. I am a fan of Mansoor al Hallaj.

Where in the picture does it say that she is drinking Alcohol. It looks like she is opening a Champagne bottle. There are many non-alcoholic champagnes available in the market. They are basically sparkling water or Soda water.

We believe that everyone is responsible for their own deeds. Allah will Judge each individual by his deeds only. Many of our prophets (not just prophet muhammad, even prophets before Muhammad) and Imam's (right from our first Imam, Imam Ali) had a lot of family members who did not follow the Islamic tenants properly. 

Allah will not judge anyone based on their wives, husbands, brothers, sons, daughters, uncles or aunts behavior. They will be judges on their own behavior.

the-aga-the-aly-and-the-rita_snip.jpg.f317bcd2c4567bffc36c264db34e3e58.jpg

“The Aga Khan looks back now with the satisfaction of a life devoted to high calling, by Ismāʿīlī standards. He remembers the brilliant evening at Mrs. Ronald Greville’s in London in the early years of the century. He remembers that wonderful balls at the Duchess of Devonshire’s in London during Edward VII’s time, and the one that Mrs. Ogden Mills gave for him in New York in 1906. He remembers that great conversationalists he has known, such as Lady Cunard; the oceans of champagne he has drunk (he drinks only champagne); the brave meals he has eaten on four continents, and with special favor he remembers the hundreds of beautiful women he has known. Of them all, he believes the most beautiful ‘without exception’ was Mary, Viscountess Curzon.”

https://insideismailism.wordpress.com/2015/08/27/ismaʿili-imamats-guidance-on-consuming-alcohol/

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21 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

the-aga-the-aly-and-the-rita_snip.jpg.f317bcd2c4567bffc36c264db34e3e58.jpg

“The Aga Khan looks back now with the satisfaction of a life devoted to high calling, by Ismāʿīlī standards. He remembers the brilliant evening at Mrs. Ronald Greville’s in London in the early years of the century. He remembers that wonderful balls at the Duchess of Devonshire’s in London during Edward VII’s time, and the one that Mrs. Ogden Mills gave for him in New York in 1906. He remembers that great conversationalists he has known, such as Lady Cunard; the oceans of champagne he has drunk (he drinks only champagne); the brave meals he has eaten on four continents, and with special favor he remembers the hundreds of beautiful women he has known. Of them all, he believes the most beautiful ‘without exception’ was Mary, Viscountess Curzon.”

https://insideismailism.wordpress.com/2015/08/27/ismaʿili-imamats-guidance-on-consuming-alcohol/

Who cares what the gossip magazine says. This is nothing new. People has been talking bad about our prophets and Imams since ages. It has been decreased a lot for current aga khan. But if you go back, it was more for many periods in the history. See how people have treated prophet Muhammad and H. Ali. There are tons and tons of anti Muslim websites that talks bad about Prophet Muhammad and tons and tons of anti shia websites that talk  bad about H. Ali. But those gossip magazines or anti websites does not make prophet Muhammad or H. Ali bad.

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6 hours ago, Ali Hasan Ali said:

Who cares what the gossip magazine says. This is nothing new. People has been talking bad about our prophets and Imams since ages. It has been decreased a lot for current aga khan. But if you go back, it was more for many periods in the history. See how people have treated prophet Muhammad and H. Ali. There are tons and tons of anti Muslim websites that talks bad about Prophet Muhammad and tons and tons of anti shia websites that talk  bad about H. Ali. But those gossip magazines or anti websites does not make prophet Muhammad or H. Ali bad.

Though think about it. Shouldn't the Aga Khan speak out then against these lying gossip magazines? In the age of the internet, he could do a video statement, or bring up media mis representation in one of his interviews..... he's not oppressed like our previous Imams.

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2 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Though think about it. Shouldn't the Aga Khan speak out then against these lying gossip magazines? In the age of the internet, he could do a video statement, or bring up media mis representation in one of his interviews..... he's not oppressed like our previous Imams.

I don't think he should. All the public figures have these kind of fake things against them. I don't think anyone cares. Remember Prophet Muhammad never opposed the lady who use to throw trash at him every time he use to pass by her home. She use to call him all bad names. So it is sunnat e rasol to ignore these kind of things. 

If I would be Imam, these kind of things would make be feel proud, this meant I am doing something good. No one talks about people who do nothing. But I am not Imam. According to me Aga Khan is Imam and he us following the footsteps of Prophet Muhammad by ignoring these kind of things. 

Imam Ali was very powerful. But he was also strong believer of forgive and forget. I think he is the one who said - “The first to apologize is the bravest. The first to forgive is the strongest. And the first to forget is the happiest.”

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1 hour ago, Ali Hasan Ali said:

I don't think he should. All the public figures have these kind of fake things against them. I don't think anyone cares. Remember Prophet Muhammad never opposed the lady who use to throw trash at him every time he use to pass by her home. She use to call him all bad names. So it is sunnat e rasol to ignore these kind of things. 

If I would be Imam, these kind of things would make be feel proud, this meant I am doing something good. No one talks about people who do nothing. But I am not Imam. According to me Aga Khan is Imam and he us following the footsteps of Prophet Muhammad by ignoring these kind of things. 

Imam Ali was very powerful. But he was also strong believer of forgive and forget. I think he is the one who said - “The first to apologize is the bravest. The first to forgive is the strongest. And the first to forget is the happiest.”

This Imam has interviews with people who openly attribute lies to him (call him a playboy, etc). Tell me, would the Imam not want to attract people to the straight path? Because if he doesn't raise an objection to this, it actually harms the religion because people might leave Ismailism, and you won't be able to attract people to Ismailism. So the Imam should do something.

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On 7/17/2017 at 2:22 PM, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

This Imam has interviews with people who openly attribute lies to him (call him a playboy, etc). Tell me, would the Imam not want to attract people to the straight path? Because if he doesn't raise an objection to this, it actually harms the religion because people might leave Ismailism, and you won't be able to attract people to Ismailism. So the Imam should do something.

I personally don't think he should do something. He is doing fantastic job with guiding us. We don't want him to divert his attention to things that are not useful at all. Very similar to Grand Ayatollah. He is not going to go for every tom Richard and harry. There are tons of negative articles. But Grand Ayatollah does what he is suppose to do. He is not going to go and fight with those antishia websites. If someone does not have faith they can always try something else and see how that works out. 

At the end it is not you or me who decides whom Imam should guide -

Verse (28:56) -  It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance (Yusuf Ali)

Also this is my personal believe (not as an ismaili) that there will be never on this earth one type of institution that will be able to serve all mankind except before the day of judgement. Look up history all the prophets and all the Imams. This is the reason Allah says in Quran - 

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

We Ismailis in perticular and we Shias in general live in countries where we are minority, so we can't make our laws, it is best to ignore anti articles.

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Nothing wrong with drinking as long as you are in control...

Which one will go to hell, a person whom drinks but makes his neighbour happy or a person whom prays all day but does all kinds of bad deeds?

You Shias have totally forgot Bâtini form of Islam,

Your just like Sunnis now due to Iraq war

 

 

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On 7/18/2017 at 10:33 PM, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

Which one will go to hell, a person whom drinks but makes his neighbour happy or a person whom prays all day but does all kinds of bad deeds?

Of course the first person. Prophet Muhammad said -  "Whoever removes one of the hardships of a believing soul, Allah will remove from him one of the distresses on the Hereafter. Whoever solves someone else’s problem, Allah will make things easy for him in this world and the Hereafter… Allah is ever assisting His servant as long as that servant is helping his brother.” [Sahîh Muslim (4867)]

AleviTurkmenKhorasan what country are you from, can you guide me more towards an article about Alevis? Where do you they live currently? Do they have any website? I would love to learn about the present day Alevis.

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On 7/21/2017 at 8:53 AM, Ali Hasan Ali said:

Of course the first person. Prophet Muhammad said -  "Whoever removes one of the hardships of a believing soul, Allah will remove from him one of the distresses on the Hereafter. Whoever solves someone else’s problem, Allah will make things easy for him in this world and the Hereafter… Allah is ever assisting His servant as long as that servant is helping his brother.” [Sahîh Muslim (4867)]

AleviTurkmenKhorasan what country are you from, can you guide me more towards an article about Alevis? Where do you they live currently? Do they have any website? I would love to learn about the present day Alevis.

I meant, of course, the first person will NOT go to hell.

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On 7/17/2012 at 0:11 AM, princevisram said:

Ismailis do use this amongust themselves and other Shias as a greating. I would not consider this shirk. If Rasool-e-Khuda (saw) called for the help of Imam Ali (as) in the battle at the Fort of Khyber, I do not see why it can be Shirk for us to ask for his help. "Ya Ali Bilutfika Adrikani!" "O Ali! Help me with thy kindness!" did the Beloved Prophet (saw) call.

Ya Ali Madad

Khuda Hafiz

As-Salamu Alaykum

As Salam Alaykum to all here, sounds much much better greetings than Ya ali madad. I am Ismaili and I am having lot of questions regarding our faith. This is greeting we Ismailis should accept now.. I try and greet in J.K as mentioned above and many of them love it. sounds so Peaceful..time for some change for good..

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On 19/07/2017 at 4:33 AM, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

 

You Shias have totally forgot Bâtini form of Islam,

Your just like Sunnis now due to Iraq war

 

 

:salam:

No offense, but apart from bringing every topic to the Alevi faith, you have some quite weird conclusions.

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On 7/21/2017 at 4:53 PM, Ali Hasan Ali said:

Of course the first person. Prophet Muhammad said -  "Whoever removes one of the hardships of a believing soul, Allah will remove from him one of the distresses on the Hereafter. Whoever solves someone else’s problem, Allah will make things easy for him in this world and the Hereafter… Allah is ever assisting His servant as long as that servant is helping his brother.” [Sahîh Muslim (4867)]

AleviTurkmenKhorasan what country are you from, can you guide me more towards an article about Alevis? Where do you they live currently? Do they have any website? I would love to learn about the present day Alevis.

https://www.alevibektasi.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=46&Itemid=69

 

 

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6 hours ago, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

You do not have both Tevella ve Teberra 

Not sure what this is supposed to mean in this particular context, however I feel I might illustrate my assertions. You implied shias changed due to Iraq war; you implied Adhan and Salah were invented under Umayad rule. That's for what I can recall. 

Apart from that, you adhere to a strictly batiniyah interpretation of Islam which itself brings a lot of inventions (sema, Dede-qibla). 

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On 7/25/2017 at 7:40 AM, Aam Admi said:

As Salam Alaykum to all here, sounds much much better greetings than Ya ali madad. I am Ismaili and I am having lot of questions regarding our faith. This is greeting we Ismailis should accept now.. I try and greet in J.K as mentioned above and many of them love it. sounds so Peaceful..time for some change for good..

Salam Alaykum is very peaceful no doubt about it. Ismailis use Salam Alaykum all the time. Ismailis also use Ya Ali Madad. For us Ya Ali Madad means asking help from Allah regardless of how they interpret it.

For some Ismailis when they say Ya Ali Madad, they are seeking help directly from Allah. Ali is one of the 99 names of Allah. For some other ismailis Ya Ali Madad, means asking blessings from Wasi of Allah. We believe that Ali is/was Allah's blessings on the mankind. Ali brought Allah's peace and prosperity with him for human beings. Ya Ali Madad is just a form of using Ali as a waseela of Allah. Calling Ali for Intercession.

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On 7/30/2017 at 10:12 AM, realizm said:

Not sure what this is supposed to mean in this particular context, however I feel I might illustrate my assertions. You implied shias changed due to Iraq war; you implied Adhan and Salah were invented under Umayad rule. That's for what I can recall. 

Apart from that, you adhere to a strictly batiniyah interpretation of Islam which itself brings a lot of inventions (sema, Dede-qibla). 

We follow Zâhir and Bâtini

But yes it's true Minarets were made by Muaviye first

AnD they cursed İmam Ali 

Muaviye dıd not invent ezan and Salât, what I meant in previous post was minaret 

İn prophets Mohammed's times mosques did not have any minarets, true?

İn prophets Mohammed's time their was call to prayer they recited Allah Hu Akbar etc

DuringOsmans rule minarets started popping up by Muaviye 

Edited by AleviTurkmenKhorasan

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11 hours ago, realizm said:

Sorry, I just do not get it. Was Mu`awiyah an architect during `Usman's rule?


Muaviye devrinde ezanın uzaklara duyurulabilmesi amacıyla, camiye ilk minâreyi ekleyen Mısır valisi Mesleme b. Muhalled'dir. Mesleme, Mısır'ı fetheden Amr İbnü'l-As'ın Kahire'de inşa etmeye başladığı, fakat bitirmeye muvaffak olamadığı Amr Camii'ni tamamlamış ve 62/682 yılında vefat etmiştir. Mesleme, Muâviye'nin emri ile Amr Camü'nin her bir köşesine birer minâre yaptırmıştı ki o zamana kadar böyle bir şey yoktu. da, Âlemlerin Rabb'ine teslim um" demişti... " (el-Bakara.)

"Minar" kelimesi, İslâm'dan önce, gözetleme veya işaret kulesi yahut zafer takı için kullanılmaktaydı. Değişik amaçlar için kullanılan bu kuleler, şekil bakımından camilere bağlı ve minârelerin benzeri idi

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11 hours ago, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:


Muaviye devrinde ezanın uzaklara duyurulabilmesi amacıyla, camiye ilk minâreyi ekleyen Mısır valisi Mesleme b. Muhalled'dir. Mesleme, Mısır'ı fetheden Amr İbnü'l-As'ın Kahire'de inşa etmeye başladığı, fakat bitirmeye muvaffak olamadığı Amr Camii'ni tamamlamış ve 62/682 yılında vefat etmiştir. Mesleme, Muâviye'nin emri ile Amr Camü'nin her bir köşesine birer minâre yaptırmıştı ki o zamana kadar böyle bir şey yoktu. da, Âlemlerin Rabb'ine teslim um" demişti... " (el-Bakara.)

"Minar" kelimesi, İslâm'dan önce, gözetleme veya işaret kulesi yahut zafer takı için kullanılmaktaydı. Değişik amaçlar için kullanılan bu kuleler, şekil bakımından camilere bağlı ve minârelerin benzeri idi

:salam:

Ok. Not sure about translation but even if Mu`awiya initiated the minarets,  he did it to call the Adhan which already existed anyway, what you do not deny.

My question now is were there Turbe, Dede etc during Prophet's (sawa) time ? Did they consume alcohol as part of ritual?

You accuse shias to have drifted due to historical context (safavid, Iraq war,... ?) taking the examples of mosques, adhan etc... while they have at least existed during Prophet's time.

Such cannot be said about many Alevi practices.

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11 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Ok. Not sure about translation but even if Mu`awiya initiated the minarets,  he did it to call the Adhan which already existed anyway, what you do not deny.

My question now is were there Turbe, Dede etc during Prophet's (sawa) time ? Did they consume alcohol as part of ritual?

You accuse shias to have drifted due to historical context (safavid, Iraq war,... ?) taking the examples of mosques, adhan etc... while they have at least existed during Prophet's time.

Such cannot be said about many Alevi practices.

1/ because Muaviye used minarets to curse Hz Ali 

 

2/ drinking wine is not prohibited 

Nahl 67 

 

3/ do you visit the prophets tomb?

4/ didn't the people face towards the prophet?

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