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Iraqi Kurdistan Threatens To Declare Independence


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#1 Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:51 PM

http://www.presstv.i...ail/232718.html

Iraqi Kurdistan threatens to declare independence


The President of the autonomous Kurdistan Region in northern Iraq, Massoud Barzani has threatened to declare independence from the central government in Baghdad.

Speaking in the region’s capital of Arbil on Tuesday, the president of Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) said the partnership that had built the national unity government in the country was now “completely non-existent and has become meaningless," AFP reported.

He also said that the oil-rich Kirkuk had to be incorporated into a future independent Kurdistan.

Diplomats regard the dispute as one of the greatest threats to Iraq's long-term stability.

Barzani's threat comes amid strained relations between him and the central government since he gave sanctuary to the fugitive Iraqi Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi in December.

Hashemi is wanted in Baghdad for alleged involvement in terror activities. The Kurdistan region has defied calls to hand him over to Baghdad for trial.

MHB/HN

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://english.alara.../21/202063.html

Kurdish leader accuses Iraqi PM of leading country to ‘dictatorship’

Wednesday, 21 March 2012

By Al Arabiya With Agencies

President of Iraq’s Kurdistan Region Masoud Barzani criticized Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki on Tuesday and accused him of dragging the country to “dictatorship” and into the “abyss.”

“There is an attempt to establish a one-million strong army whose loyalty is only to a single person”“ Barzani said” referring to Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki.

In a speech marking the traditional Persian new year holiday, Barzani repeated a litany of Kurdish complaints, some of them specifically directed against Maliki for consolidating his hold on power in Baghdad.

“Where in the world can the same person be the prime minister, the chief of staff of the armed forces, the minister of defense, the minister of interior, the chief of intelligence and the head of the national security council?” he said, referring to powerful posts that Maliki has yet to allocate under a power-sharing agreement.

Barzani appeared to raise the stakes, with language suggesting he could seek a referendum of some kind on the Kurdish region's relations with Baghdad - although he stopped far short of breaking a taboo by making explicit reference to independence.

“It is time to say enough is enough,” Barzani said in an official translation of his remarks on his website.

“The current status of affairs in unacceptable to us and I call on all Iraqi political leaders to urgently try and find a solution - otherwise we will return to our people and will decide on whatever course of action that our people deem appropriate.”

The comments could be seen as a veiled code for seeking independence, since most Kurds say they would vote to secede from Iraq if given a chance.

Kurdish region flourishing

The Kurdish region has flourished as the only part of Iraq to have avoided the extreme violence that followed the U.S.-British invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein in 2003.

Barzani's government receives a fixed percentage of Iraq's oil export wealth and maintains its own security forces.

While Baghdad and the rest of Iraq still have electricity for just a few hours a day and have barely seen even the most basic reconstruction after decades of sanctions and war, the Kurdish region is enjoying a massive building boom. Barzani rules with a firm grip.

He accused the central government of refusing to resolve a territorial dispute over the oil city of Kirkuk, which is outside the Kurdish region but regarded by Kurds as their historical homeland.

Funds due from the central government for Kurdish security forces have been “embezzled,” Barzani said. The central government was opposing Kurdish oil deals to prevent the Kurds from reaching their own economic potential.

Iraq's Kurdish political parties have played the role of kingmaker in Baghdad since the fall of Saddam, and were instrumental in forming the coalition of that kept Maliki's Shi'ite religious parties in power after an inconclusive election in 2009.

The coalition is led by Maliki's Shi'ite alliance but also includes Kurds and Sunnis. It came under immediate strain when U.S. troops pulled out in December.

On the eve of the withdrawal of the last U.S. troops, Maliki's government issued an arrest warrant for the country's most senior Sunni Arab politician, Vice President Tareq al-Hashemi, who immediately fled to the Kurdish region.

Barzani has refused to hand him over to Baghdad for trial, saying the criminal case has political implications that need to be resolved.

“Iraq is facing a serious crisis. We have tried our utmost to prevent Iraq from descending into a sectarian conflict and we have consistently avoided taking sides in this conflict,” he said in Tuesday's speech.

“It is very unfortunate that a small number of people in Baghdad have imposed themselves and monopolized power.”
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#2 Shamali

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:06 PM

Kurds should form an alliance with moderate Sunnis and Shia's against Maliki and his gang.

#3 Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:48 PM

Kurds should form an alliance with moderate Sunnis and Shia's against Maliki and his gang.


As you know, there are already existing tensions between the Kurds and Arab Sunnis (and Turkmen) over Kirkuk, so not likely. Such an alliance would be short-lived.
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#4 Goku

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:08 PM

I say let's kick these kurds out of Iraq.....
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#5 Professor Higgins

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:49 AM

As you know, there are already existing tensions between the Kurds and Arab Sunnis (and Turkmen) over Kirkuk, so not likely. Such an alliance would be short-lived.


Sunni Arabs and Turkmen have suffered much more violence, direct physical annihilation campaigns, under the rule of the current Iraqi government. The physical extermination campaign had the tacit support of the major Shia parties. Sunni Arabs and Turkmen can sacrifice territory in exchange of a solid alliance with the strongest military power in Iraq (Kurdistan). Sunnis have realized tghat if they do not unite they would be further marginalized by the central Government.

#6 ShiaBen

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:37 PM

As you know, there are already existing tensions between the Kurds and Arab Sunnis (and Turkmen) over Kirkuk, so not likely. Such an alliance would be short-lived.


You are right but. But as far as I'm concerned, aren't the Arabs that were massacred in Kirkuk, actually Shiite Arabs?

I never heard of them being Sunnis. But if they were, then I've learned something new today. As far as the Turkmen are concerned, they are roughly 50/50.
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#7 Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:48 PM

You are right but. But as far as I'm concerned, aren't the Arabs that were massacred in Kirkuk, actually Shiite Arabs?

I never heard of them being Sunnis. But if they were, then I've learned something new today. As far as the Turkmen are concerned, they are roughly 50/50.


There is a presence of both

Both Shiite and Sunni Arabs in Kirkuk have united in their denunciation of Kurdish militias in their province.

They have aligned themselves with Turkmen, another sizeable minority in Kirkuk opposing the presence of Kurdish militias.

It is not clear what type of position the Arabs and Turkmen will adopt following reports that the Kurds were not only using force to spread their control over the province but clandestinely working to steal its oil.


http://www.azzaman.c...-03-12\kurd.htm

Saddam managed to diplace many Kurds there, through Arabizing it by encouraging Arab migration there, most Arabs there are Sunnis.

The Kurdish-Arab dispute over Kirkuk is different from Iraq's main political dispute between Sunni Arabs and Shiite Arabs, which plays out more in the capital of Baghdad and surrounding areas.

The Sunni-Shiite split has less relevance in Kirkuk where both Kurds and Arabs are mostly Sunni Muslims. There, the fear among Arabs — both Sunnis and Shiites — is that Kurds will gobble up all jobs and government benefits if Kirkuk joins Kurdistan.


http://www.msnbc.msn...k/#.T2tzRXnG-So

#8 Nawab

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:53 PM

I hope they get their Independence! A kurdish Islamic state.... they deserve it after all they been through

#9 Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:05 PM

I hope they get their Independence! A kurdish Islamic state.... they deserve it after all they been through


Posted Image

Implying the mostly progressive, if not secular and pluralistic Kurds in the north actually want a state based on a religious ideology.
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#10 ShiaBen

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 05:28 PM

Thanks for the response. I had no idea the split was that close.

#11 Nawab

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 06:55 PM

Posted Image

Implying the mostly progressive, if not secular and pluralistic Kurds in the north actually want a state based on a religious ideology.

okay well i thought the leading Kurdish government in Iraq was a Muslim one, but im not sure. I know that the PKK is pretty non religious. Either way, It would be nice to see an independent Kurdish state

#12 md. ammar ali

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:44 AM

i think thats the best thing
let the kurds form their kurdisatan(capital - tekreek lol)

the others can form shiaistan which could include the holy shia sites such as karbala,najaf,bagdad and also the rest of southern iraq including basra

inshaAllah

Edited by varun loves ahlulbayt, 23 March 2012 - 11:46 AM.


#13 Akritas

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 09:46 PM

Hate to disappoint, but this is almost certainly brinksmanship on the part of Barzani over the oil dispute. I doubt the KRG would try to formally break away as that would risk bringing down the wrath of other regional powers (at this point, mostly Turkey). Turkey has a very powerful military and it would be foolish to risk Turkish retaliation. Also, it would eliminate their representation in Baghdad. In exchange they would get, well, not much really.
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#14 Gypsy

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:21 PM

Disintegrating already? That was quick.

It seems Iraq is still stuck in dirty sectarian politics.

#15 Shamali

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:52 PM

As you know, there are already existing tensions between the Kurds and Arab Sunnis (and Turkmen) over Kirkuk, so not likely. Such an alliance would be short-lived.


In the past yes. But Kurds and Sunni Arabs are finding more in common these days, than different. And Kurds and Sunni Arabs can reach an aggrement on the disputed lands. Especially in Diyala, where both Sunni Arabs and Kurds voted for an autonomous Diyala, I would not be surprised if both groups form a coalition against Maliki in the next elections

#16 titumir

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 07:56 AM

In the past yes. But Kurds and Sunni Arabs are finding more in common these days, than different. And Kurds and Sunni Arabs can reach an aggrement on the disputed lands. Especially in Diyala, where both Sunni Arabs and Kurds voted for an autonomous Diyala, I would not be surprised if both groups form a coalition against Maliki in the next elections


That's great! Go join with Saddam, Barzani, Aale Saud, Aale Wahhab et al, instead of Syeds Khomeini, Khamenei, Musavi, Nasrallah, etc.

Just don't come begging to us for protection when your allies betray you, and start killing you, as they have never failed to betray and kill one and another over the course of history.

#17 Shamali

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 06:04 PM

That's great! Go join with Saddam, Barzani, Aale Saud, Aale Wahhab et al, instead of Syeds Khomeini, Khamenei, Musavi, Nasrallah, etc.

Just don't come begging to us for protection when your allies betray you, and start killing you, as they have never failed to betray and kill one and another over the course of history.


Yes, we would much rather side with Sunni Arabs, than Iranian puppets and stooges, anyday. Thank for the clarification.
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#18 Professor Higgins

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:11 AM

That's great! Go join with Saddam, Barzani, Aale Saud, Aale Wahhab et al, instead of Syeds Khomeini, Khamenei, Musavi, Nasrallah, etc.

Just don't come begging to us for protection when your allies betray you, and start killing you, as they have never failed to betray and kill one and another over the course of history.


Go join with the American occupiers and Zionists to realize your pipe dream of a "Shia crescent".

#19 The Canuck

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:59 PM

In the past yes. But Kurds and Sunni Arabs are finding more in common these days, than different. And Kurds and Sunni Arabs can reach an aggrement on the disputed lands. Especially in Diyala, where both Sunni Arabs and Kurds voted for an autonomous Diyala, I would not be surprised if both groups form a coalition against Maliki in the next elections


Shamali: interesting you say this. What are they finding "more" in common now? more importantly, Kirkuk is proclaimed to be purely Kurdish territory, the sunni arabs are against this. So what kind of agreement are they coming up with?

The same sunni arabs that killed over 1 million Kurds? The same sunni arabs that:

- destroyed 4,500 Kurdish villages
- dropped chemical bombs on over 40 Kurdish villages
- murdered 5000 Kurdish people in Halabja and permanently injured 12,000 in another chemical attack.
- Independent sources claim Sunni Arabs killed 1.1 million to 2.15 million Kurdish people in Iraq.
- Official Iraqi government says sunni arabs killed 182,000 Kurds.

There was some videos on youtube also from Iraqi sunni arabs who even supported Saddam's murdering of the Kurds. As well as Arab writers, journalists or political people from Jordan, Egypt and other arab countries.
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#20 The Canuck

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:08 AM

Incase you needed some links:

http://history1900s....sseincrimes.htm

http://en.wikipedia....ign#cite_note-5 <-- has references.

#21 Shamali

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:38 AM

Shamali: interesting you say this. What are they finding "more" in common now? more importantly, Kirkuk is proclaimed to be purely Kurdish territory, the sunni arabs are against this. So what kind of agreement are they coming up with?

The same sunni arabs that killed over 1 million Kurds? The same sunni arabs that:

- destroyed 4,500 Kurdish villages
- dropped chemical bombs on over 40 Kurdish villages
- murdered 5000 Kurdish people in Halabja and permanently injured 12,000 in another chemical attack.
- Independent sources claim Sunni Arabs killed 1.1 million to 2.15 million Kurdish people in Iraq.
- Official Iraqi government says sunni arabs killed 182,000 Kurds.

There was some videos on youtube also from Iraqi sunni arabs who even supported Saddam's murdering of the Kurds. As well as Arab writers, journalists or political people from Jordan, Egypt and other arab countries.


I am not denying involvement of Sunni Arabs in the genocide against Kurds. But the current political situation is different. Maliki is continously getting more bold against Kurds. And has not even appointed an interior and defense minster. And the Iraqi government continues to delay any settlement amongst Kurds with regarding the oil law, and disputed lands and reversal of Arabization politices in Kurdish areas.

Sunni Arab parties and the KRG are working more closely now together against Maliki. And also some Shia parties as well. I support all factions amongst Iraqis (Shias, Sunnis and Kurds) to form a coalition against Assad. And that is what is slowly happening now.

#22 The Canuck

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:21 AM

^So what are they finding "more" in common? please answer the question instead of skipping around it. Are you saying the sunni arabs or the ba'aths will settle the oil and land disputes and reversal of arabization? so this would mean Kirkuk would be handed over I presume, and definitely other areas.

Sunni Arab parties and the KRG are working more closely now together against Maliki. And also some Shia parties as well. I support all factions amongst Iraqis (Shias, Sunnis and Kurds) to form a coalition against Assad. And that is what is slowly happening now.


So their "common" ground is to form a coalition against Assad ? I think Barzani used to deal with the Ba'athis in the past, and he's only trying to increase his hand by using them. Ultimately KRG wants a split from Iraq, but they know they can't do that right now.

#23 Mo.

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:27 AM

Saddam was one man who was hungry for power. He didn't care if he killed his own mother. His war against the Kurds is not a representation of Sunni Arabs in Iraq.

Sunni Arabs have always been, even culturally, the most sympathetic to the Iraqi Kurds. Sunni Arabs in Iraq have always given the Kurdish people the nickname "children of Salah Al-Din". Iraqi Shias will never give such a nickname because Salah Al-Din is hated by Shias. Saddam was one person whose quest for power oversaw everything else. He didn't mind killing his own tribesmen, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have cared if he killed Kurds or Arabs or anyone. So let's not pretend that Sunni Iraqis are suddenly in "tension" with Kurds because of one man who only believed in himself and believed in nothing else. Saddam wasn't even a Baathist or Arab nationalist. He was a Saddamist.

As for Kurds. I think the decision should go back to them. If they want their own country, let them have it. Afterall every ethnic group has the right of selfdetermination. So let them have their own country if that is what makes them happy and their hearts in peace. I dont want people to suffer. If they think theyll suffer less if Kurdistan becomes fully independent (instead of semi independent like today), let them.

And inshallah they wage a jihad to liberate Kurdistan in eastern Turkey from the hands of Turkish genocidal nationalists.

Edited by Mo., 30 March 2012 - 09:28 AM.

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#24 Professor Higgins

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:02 PM

Saddam was one man who was hungry for power. He didn't care if he killed his own mother. His war against the Kurds is not a representation of Sunni Arabs in Iraq.

Sunni Arabs have always been, even culturally, the most sympathetic to the Iraqi Kurds. Sunni Arabs in Iraq have always given the Kurdish people the nickname "children of Salah Al-Din". Iraqi Shias will never give such a nickname because Salah Al-Din is hated by Shias. Saddam was one person whose quest for power oversaw everything else. He didn't mind killing his own tribesmen, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have cared if he killed Kurds or Arabs or anyone. So let's not pretend that Sunni Iraqis are suddenly in "tension" with Kurds because of one man who only believed in himself and believed in nothing else. Saddam wasn't even a Baathist or Arab nationalist. He was a Saddamist.

As for Kurds. I think the decision should go back to them. If they want their own country, let them have it. Afterall every ethnic group has the right of selfdetermination. So let them have their own country if that is what makes them happy and their hearts in peace. I dont want people to suffer. If they think theyll suffer less if Kurdistan becomes fully independent (instead of semi independent like today), let them.

And inshallah they wage a jihad to liberate Kurdistan in eastern Turkey from the hands of Turkish genocidal nationalists.



Actually Salaheddine ibn Ayoubi was an Arabized Kurd from Tikrit. :dry:

#25 Shamali

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:15 PM

Saddam was one man who was hungry for power. He didn't care if he killed his own mother. His war against the Kurds is not a representation of Sunni Arabs in Iraq.

Sunni Arabs have always been, even culturally, the most sympathetic to the Iraqi Kurds. Sunni Arabs in Iraq have always given the Kurdish people the nickname "children of Salah Al-Din". Iraqi Shias will never give such a nickname because Salah Al-Din is hated by Shias. Saddam was one person whose quest for power oversaw everything else. He didn't mind killing his own tribesmen, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have cared if he killed Kurds or Arabs or anyone. So let's not pretend that Sunni Iraqis are suddenly in "tension" with Kurds because of one man who only believed in himself and believed in nothing else. Saddam wasn't even a Baathist or Arab nationalist. He was a Saddamist.

As for Kurds. I think the decision should go back to them. If they want their own country, let them have it. Afterall every ethnic group has the right of selfdetermination. So let them have their own country if that is what makes them happy and their hearts in peace. I dont want people to suffer. If they think theyll suffer less if Kurdistan becomes fully independent (instead of semi independent like today), let them.

And inshallah they wage a jihad to liberate Kurdistan in eastern Turkey from the hands of Turkish genocidal nationalists.


Mo, I am glad that you support Kurdish aspirations. And I do not hold all Sunni Arabs accountable for the crimes committed by Saddam Hussein against Kurds. Both Kurds, Sunni Arabs, and moderate Shia Arabs needs to form a coalition in Iraq, so we can prevent another Saddam Hussein (Al-Maliki) from consolidating power. It is obvious that Maliki is marginalizing Sunnis, and making threats towards Kurds. Sunni Arabs in Iraq have a right to autonomy, just like the Kurds. And this is guaranteed in the Iraqi constitution. But obviously Maliki does not respect the Iraqi constitution, which means he does not respect the rule of law in Iraq. He has withheld payments of 1.5 billion dollars towards the KRG, and feels as if he can bully his way to power by purchasing military equipment from the West. He will find that he will lose all of Iraq, not just Kurds, if he continues on his path. I would not be surprised if Sunni Arabs split from Iraq, before Kurds do, the way events are taking place now.



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