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Insulting Islam / Muhammad / Qur'an


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#1 SolidRock

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:30 PM

What does it look like to "insult" Islam, Muhammad or the Qur'an?

If I say the Qur'an, in it's present form, is NOT the truth from God (with regard, for example, to what it says about who Jesus was), have I insulted the Qur'an? If so, then it follows that Muslims are "insulting" the Bible when they claim that it, in it's present form, is not the truth from God, again with regard to what it says about who Jesus was.

If I say that Muhammad was not who Muslims say he was, have I insulted Muhammad (in the eyes of Islam)? If so, then it follows that Muslims who say Jesus was not who Christians say He was are insulting Jesus (in the eyes of Christianity).

If someone says Islam is not the truth about God, have they insulted Islam (in the eyes of Muslims)? If so, then it follows that anyone who says Christianity is not the truth about God has insulted Christianity (in the eyes of Christians).

If there are "penalties" for "insulting" Islam / Muhammad / Qur'an, then to be fair, there should be equal "penalties" against Muslims who "insult" Jesus / Bible / Christianity in the same manner.

HOWEVER, I don't believe in "penalties" in either direction, because I know God wouldn't want any such penalties. I firmly believe any sort of penalties like this are EVIL and DO NOT come from God. Would Muslims consider it fair if they were penalized (even to the point of death) for saying the Bible is corrupt, or that Jesus isn't the Son of God? Of course not!! But yet they see no problem with penalizing people who speak similarly of Muhammad / Qur'an??

Just look at the Muhammad cartoons that sparked worldwide Muslim outrage -- over a FREAKING CARTOON... what if there was worldwide Christian outrage over a Muslim who said something blasphemous like, "Muhammad
is greater than Jesus"?

You get my point -- it almost seems like Muslims think it's ok to disagree with Islam as long as you're not living in a "Muslim society" (while they try to establish Muslim societies all over the world), or as long as you keep your opposing beliefs to yourself and don't publicize them... but it's ok for Muslims to promote their beliefs in non-Muslim countries?

Why don't Muslims play by their own rules, and recognize the rights / values of other religions? If you think it's fair to penalize others for "insulting" your religion, do you also ACCEPT punishment for Muslims when they insult Christianity (using the same definition for "insult")?

Peace, The Rock <><












#2 Qa'im

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:13 PM

There are millions of non-Muslims in Muslim countries; with many ancient Christian communities that have been intact for hundreds or thousands of years. Of course, any non-Muslim would believe that the Qur'an is not the word of God, and that the Prophet (pbuh) was not a prophet of God, and yet they were allowed to live and prosper in Muslim communities till today. You may be able to bring up isolates incidents where unlearned Muslims have killed non-Muslism for insulting the Qur'an, but tell me, where are the ancient Spanish and Sicilian Muslims today? They were, of course, wiped out, because while Islamic empires (which we are also critical of) usually protected their indigenous Christian, Jewish and Zoroastrian communities, the Catholic Church and other Christian entities were killing, exiling, and force-converting European Muslims simply for not being Christian. The fact that you've been able to make over 1,400 posts like the one above would mean that we're tolerant of your views and are fine with having them here.

As for penalties, have you not read Deuteronomy and Psalms? Do you really want me to quote the verses, where polytheists or simply those who did not abide by the Torah were killed for their religious views? If you believe Jesus is God, then Jesus ordered those killings plain and simple.

And as for the cartoons, what some Muslims do is not representative of Islam as a whole. Islam can only be represented by two kinds of people: the Prophet (pbuh) and the 12 Imams (as). Yes, we believe that in an Islamic society, no such cartoons would or should exist. However, the Muslims that live in non-Islamic countries must abide by the rules of that place. The cartoons controversy did not erupt until the same paper published the cartoons five times in a deliberate attempt to provoke the Danish Muslim community. There were many Muslims who protested and boycotted, which is fair game, but the killing of people is not an Islamic act but rather a criminal act according to Islamic law.

You tell us to "accept" the punishment for Muslims when we "insult" Christianity, what exactly do you mean? While Christianity is the popular religion in your country, the United States is not a theocracy that would allow Christian retribution against Muslims. If a Christian burns a Qur'an, its his right as an American, and as much as I may hate that action, I cannot do anything more than express my disgust. Likewise, if I insulted the Bible, the American law protects me. Don't blame us for your secular system, if you want to turn the U.S into the Christian Taliban then be my guest.
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#3 Son of Placid

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:37 AM

Growing some skin would help. if I were to say my god is better than your god, would my ignorance change your life enough to spur anger, (to any level)?

This is a Muslim site. It's no surprise to me Muslims feel free to express their beliefs about other religions here. Not much use getting too excited.

Then again while conversing thru posts someone mentioned that the Bible read funny to them and I replied, Yeah in the same way the Quran reads funny to me.
Six posts later I had been told six times in six ways by six people that I wasn't even allowed to write that here. Interestingly enough none were Mods and I'm still here.

If you tell me your god is better than my god I won't cry.

Yuh, grow some skin...

#4 ateef

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:03 AM

Growing some skin would help. if I were to say my god is better than your god, would my ignorance change your life enough to spur anger, (to any level)?

This is a Muslim site. It's no surprise to me Muslims feel free to express their beliefs about other religions here. Not much use getting too excited.

Then again while conversing thru posts someone mentioned that the Bible read funny to them and I replied, Yeah in the same way the Quran reads funny to me.
Six posts later I had been told six times in six ways by six people that I wasn't even allowed to write that here. Interestingly enough none were Mods and I'm still here.

If you tell me your god is better than my god I won't cry.

Yuh, grow some skin...



We have not been harsh...to you..We do not profess...My Lord greater than Your Lord...We try to refine your descriptions...I accept there are some wierd beliefs in Muslims also...

I never felt your Bible reading funny...I could see the errors very easily...and figure out

As far as your reading of Quran appers funny to you because wrappings on your heartnad you have become deaf and blind..

Peace

What does it look like to "insult" Islam, Muhammad or the Qur'an? If I say the Qur'an, in it's present form, is NOT the truth from God (with regard, for example, to what it says about who Jesus was), have I insulted the Qur'an? If so, then it follows that Muslims are "insulting" the Bible when they claim that it, in it's present form, is not the truth from God, again with regard to what it says about who Jesus was. If I say that Muhammad was not who Muslims say he was, have I insulted Muhammad (in the eyes of Islam)? If so, then it follows that Muslims who say Jesus was not who Christians say He was are insulting Jesus (in the eyes of Christianity). If someone says Islam is not the truth about God, have they insulted Islam (in the eyes of Muslims)? If so, then it follows that anyone who says Christianity is not the truth about God has insulted Christianity (in the eyes of Christians). If there are "penalties" for "insulting" Islam / Muhammad / Qur'an, then to be fair, there should be equal "penalties" against Muslims who "insult" Jesus / Bible / Christianity in the same manner. HOWEVER, I don't believe in "penalties" in either direction, because I know God wouldn't want any such penalties. I firmly believe any sort of penalties like this are EVIL and DO NOT come from God. Would Muslims consider it fair if they were penalized (even to the point of death) for saying the Bible is corrupt, or that Jesus isn't the Son of God? Of course not!! But yet they see no problem with penalizing people who speak similarly of Muhammad / Qur'an?? Just look at the Muhammad cartoons that sparked worldwide Muslim outrage -- over a FREAKING CARTOON... what if there was worldwide Christian outrage over a Muslim who said something blasphemous like, "Muhammad is greater than Jesus"? You get my point -- it almost seems like Muslims think it's ok to disagree with Islam as long as you're not living in a "Muslim society" (while they try to establish Muslim societies all over the world), or as long as you keep your opposing beliefs to yourself and don't publicize them... but it's ok for Muslims to promote their beliefs in non-Muslim countries? Why don't Muslims play by their own rules, and recognize the rights / values of other religions? If you think it's fair to penalize others for "insulting" your religion, do you also ACCEPT punishment for Muslims when they insult Christianity (using the same definition for "insult")? Peace, The Rock <><



Can You Make Clear How do we Insult ???

Just look at the Muhammad cartoons that sparked worldwide Muslim outrage -- over a FREAKING CARTOON..


It may be just for you....Its a big thing for us....

Cant you see we do not even keep photos of our messenger, Good and clean Photos , non funny and use for worship...

We arent Like You all.Inspite of Written in Your Book ...You all practice Idols and Photo Worship

Thanks

Peace..

#5 Saintly_Jinn23

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:41 AM

It may be just for you....Its a big thing for us....

Cant you see we do not even keep photos of our messenger, Good and clean Photos , non funny and use for worship...

We arent Like You all.Inspite of Written in Your Book ...You all practice Idols and Photo Worship

Thanks

Peace..



Well, that's not really fair, we have devotional paintings of the Prophet too. With the Danish cartoons thing, much of that was overblown, while many people protested those cartoons rather peacefully. Violent protests over such matters usually occur in the same places and the fires are fanned by unsavory individuals. And there are plenty of Muslims in the world that have devotional paintings of the Prophet and his family, what made the Danish cartoons a problem was they were deliberately insulting and mocking the prophet in a crude and obscene manner. Maybe Americans like having Jesus made fun of on television so much that it is common place, but we do not like ANY of our prophets mocked and if they are ever depicted in film or painting, they must be done so in a glorifying manner as they deserve.

#6 Son of Placid

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:38 PM

We have not been harsh...to you..We do not profess...My Lord greater than Your Lord...We try to refine your descriptions...I accept there are some wierd beliefs in Muslims also...


I agree there's been a good stretch or respectful people on the site. Solid Rock blurbs in once every 2-3 months and remembers when times were not so good, yet might not stick around to see how people are interacting. I have been called a polithiest idol worshipper and told to go dance in my church sacrificial blood everywhere, so yes, you guys have been great and I for one appreciate it.

I never felt your Bible reading funny...I could see the errors very easily...and figure out

As far as your reading of Quran appers funny to you because wrappings on your heartnad you have become deaf and blind..
Can You Make Clear How do we Insult ???


Sreteo-typical accusations.
I figured the Quran read funny because it's a translation from a tremendously foreign language, not to mention poetic verses never translate with the same effect.
If my heart was wrapped and I was deaf and blind I'd be accusing others of the same thing. Reading with a bias is only corrupting yourself.

We arent Like You all. Inspite of Written in Your Book ...You all practice Idols and Photo Worship


Yeah, those kind of stereo-typical accusations don't help a lot.

Maybe Americans like having Jesus made fun of on television so much that it is common place


Maybe Americans do. Most Christians don't. The makers of most TV shows could care less what Christians have to say.
You might notice there's no more blasphemy on Dog the bounty Hunter. That was my email.

#7 ateef

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:01 AM

Well, that's not really fair, we have devotional paintings of the Prophet too. With the Danish cartoons thing, much of that was overblown, while many people protested those cartoons rather peacefully. Violent protests over such matters usually occur in the same places and the fires are fanned by unsavory individuals. And there are plenty of Muslims in the world that have devotional paintings of the Prophet and his family, what made the Danish cartoons a problem was they were deliberately insulting and mocking the prophet in a crude and obscene manner. Maybe Americans like having Jesus made fun of on television so much that it is common place, but we do not like ANY of our prophets mocked and if they are ever depicted in film or painting, they must be done so in a glorifying manner as they deserve.


Those are fools.With the Paintings.Who draw and Worship..Who Ought better than Allah in Art..

#8 Son of Placid

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:21 PM

Those are fools.With the Paintings.Who draw and Worship..Who Ought better than Allah in Art..


That's not really fair either. Does everyone who has pictures worship them?
I don't have any pictures myself. Can't draw either.

#9 Goku

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 07:06 AM

It's different. We claim that Jesus was a prophet of God, one of the greatest prophets and one of the best of creations. Non-Muslims say that Muhammad saw was a pedophile, a devil, false prophet, etc. While we show Jesus respect and even claim him to be one of the best creations, many Christians and others mock our religion (Islam). We claim the Bible now is now the bible at the time of Jesus (which is true because The bible now is written many years after Jesus) that Jesus had the real Bible with him. While Christians claim The Qur'an is not even the word of God.

#10 shiaaliibrahim

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:41 AM

As I review your questions I concluded that your logic is unsound and bias in so many ways. First, christian scholars do not agree on the purity of the Bible, new scrolls are discovered and books released from the Vatican that dispute the doctrine that is common among christians today. Additionally, there are sects of christians that dispute that Jesus (as) is god or the son of god. The doctrine of Paul differs significantly over the teaching of Jesus' companions, so much so that it is a different religion than what was originally taught.

Muslims believe that there is only one religion since Adam, we believe that all of the prophets (PBUT) preach Islam (submission to the will of God). You could go as far as saying that we Muslims are a progression of Christianity. After all, we embrace all of the prophets that you do.

Let me finish by making this statement, I am a convert to Islam. I was studying in a seminary library reviewing christian doctrine and came across a translation of an Aramaic Bible. It was smaller than any Bible I had seen before, I read it in it's entirety and was in shock. In the same library in the comparative religion section I stumbled upon a book called Muhammad (pbuh) so I read it. The teachings in this book were in sync with the Aramaic Bible. I realized that if you took the first christians and put them on the street today everyone would confuse them with Muslims, even the way they prayed.

Edited by shiaaliibrahim, 03 April 2012 - 09:56 AM.

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#11 titumir

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:54 AM

1. As said before, there are large numbers of minorities who live totally normally in Muslim countries, and most Muslim countries have minorities, due to the fact they didn't kill off all the natives.

2. Its very easy to understand what crosses the limits. "I do not believe Muhammad was a Prophet" is one thing. "I believe the Prophet was wrong to do X because of reason Y, etc." is also acceptable. But writing a book in which a pimp is named after the Prophet and the prostitutes have the names of his wives is totally another thing. Please, let nobody play the fool and pretend they do not understand what the limits are.

3. We, the majority population do not want to live with these sorts of losers who contribute nothing to society and only try to get famous by attacking the Prophet. Surely we have the right to decide which rules our society runs by? So in that case we have decided to make it illegal to cause tensions by mindless insults against the Prophet. We simply do not want those types of activities in our society, similar to how, say the French may not like women wearing hijabs. So what's the problem?

#12 Son of Placid

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 06:58 PM

The problem here, (not my problem but...) is everybody used to be white. I don't know if they've done a breakdown on the nationalities that live in this city but I'd bet it's about 5% black, 25% brown, and 25% yellow, the rest is a mix of who knows what but they look white. ( A rednecks point of view).

Whites are paranoid because they're afraid Blacks hold a grudge because their great great great grandfather's master was just as white, and they all look the same, they fear Muslims because they think every Muslim secretly wants oi kill them, and they figure every Oriental will eventually kill them with their driving (in)ability.

As for a new prophet. Christian frankly don't accept another prophet after Jesus. What do Muslims think of Joseph Smith? Once you've decided on a religion your prophet better be the last or you might be wrong. It isn't Christians that depict Muhhamad in cartoons, or make cartoons with Jesus as a religious game show host.

Did the disciples look like Muslims? In those days probably in dress, but in prayer? There's nothing that says they prayed the same, and of course nothing about praying in the direction of a black stone.

My writing is a little light hearted but is in no way meant to insult anyone.

#13 Goku

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 08:16 PM

The problem here, (not my problem but...) is everybody used to be white. I don't know if they've done a breakdown on the nationalities that live in this city but I'd bet it's about 5% black, 25% brown, and 25% yellow, the rest is a mix of who knows what but they look white. ( A rednecks point of view).

Whites are paranoid because they're afraid Blacks hold a grudge because their great great great grandfather's master was just as white, and they all look the same, they fear Muslims because they think every Muslim secretly wants oi kill them, and they figure every Oriental will eventually kill them with their driving (in)ability.

As for a new prophet. Christian frankly don't accept another prophet after Jesus. What do Muslims think of Joseph Smith? Once you've decided on a religion your prophet better be the last or you might be wrong. It isn't Christians that depict Muhhamad in cartoons, or make cartoons with Jesus as a religious game show host.

Did the disciples look like Muslims? In those days probably in dress, but in prayer? There's nothing that says they prayed the same, and of course nothing about praying in the direction of a black stone.

My writing is a little light hearted but is in no way meant to insult anyone.


Yes, in the bible it says that Jesus bowed down in prostration. This is prayer. and yes, they also prayed towards the Kab'ah as did Abraham and Moses.

#14 Son of Placid

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:47 PM

Yes, in the bible it says that Jesus bowed down in prostration.

In Christianity prostrate means flat on your face, belly n all.

This is prayer. and yes, they also prayed towards the Kab'ah as did Abraham and Moses.


Hadith?

#15 nemesis

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:51 AM

(bismillah)

Brothers and sisters, as a devout Christian and those who are devout Christians would say “Do not Judge “as only GOD is our heavenly father and will he judge us all . so as a Christian i would not dare question the Quran or the HOLY prophet peace be upon him and his family . As GOD has put me on this earth to follow the words of our prophets to learn and use these holy words to do well and love mankind as a whole.

This world is rampant with wretchedness and unbelievers and dwellers of evil, do not be fooled so easily as the devil will show himself as a Christian and as a Muslim and a Jew . do not force your ideas and or punish those who do not follow your path as GOD has made many paths to him, we are humans we are not GOD or prophets to say what is right and what is wrong, share your faith teach the words our prophets spoke and lets us all pray that we will sit with our maker in heaven INSHALLAH.

Blessing to you all.

N

Edited by nemesis, 04 April 2012 - 12:51 AM.


#16 Ruq

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:46 AM

What does it look like to "insult" Islam, Muhammad or the Qur'an?

If I say the Qur'an, in it's present form, is NOT the truth from God (with regard, for example, to what it says about who Jesus was), have I insulted the Qur'an?


Well, if youre saying the Quran is lying, then to Muslims you are saying God is lying because the Quran is the word of God. If youre saying that the Quran has been corrupted by people, that is a different thing.

If so, then it follows that Muslims are "insulting" the Bible when they claim that it, in it's present form, is not the truth from God, again with regard to what it says about who Jesus was.


The bible doesnt claim to be the word of God and so not infallible.


If I say that Muhammad was not who Muslims say he was, have I insulted Muhammad (in the eyes of Islam)? If so, then it follows that Muslims who say Jesus was not who Christians say He was are insulting Jesus (in the eyes of Christianity).


This means youre calling the Prophet(pbuh) a liar, its not a compliment is it? but the Prophet(pbuh) suffered much worse than that from ppl during his lifetime and responded peacefully and with dignity. According to the bible, Jesus(pbuh) responded with the same peace and dignity as the Prophet(pbuh) did.



If there are "penalties" for "insulting" Islam / Muhammad / Qur'an, then to be fair, there should be equal "penalties" against Muslims who "insult" Jesus / Bible / Christianity in the same manner.


Im not aware of the bible sanctioning punishment for ppl who dont believe Jesus(pbuh) was the son of God. As far as im aware, neither does the Quran sanction punishment on earth for people who dont believe the message it brought, thats for God to do when we die.

HOWEVER, I don't believe in "penalties" in either direction, because I know God wouldn't want any such penalties. I firmly believe any sort of penalties like this are EVIL and DO NOT come from God. Would Muslims consider it fair if they were penalized (even to the point of death) for saying the Bible is corrupt, or that Jesus isn't the Son of God? Of course not!! But yet they see no problem with penalizing people who speak similarly of Muhammad / Qur'an??

Just look at the Muhammad cartoons that sparked worldwide Muslim outrage -- over a FREAKING CARTOON... what if there was worldwide Christian outrage over a Muslim who said something blasphemous like, "Muhammad
is greater than Jesus"?

You get my point -- it almost seems like Muslims think it's ok to disagree with Islam as long as you're not living in a "Muslim society" (while they try to establish Muslim societies all over the world), or as long as you keep your opposing beliefs to yourself and don't publicize them... but it's ok for Muslims to promote their beliefs in non-Muslim countries?

Why don't Muslims play by their own rules, and recognize the rights / values of other religions? If you think it's fair to penalize others for "insulting" your religion, do you also ACCEPT punishment for Muslims when they insult Christianity (using the same definition for "insult")?

Peace, The Rock <><


Please research a little more before coming to a conclusion about such things. I wouldnt go to the Westboro Baptist church to educate myself ;about Christianity, i'd read the bible and look at the bigger picture.

Quran, 16:125:


Yusuf Ali translation:

Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.



Shakir translation:
Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.



#17 1472Maryam

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:11 PM

Salam alaikum,

Shiaaliibrahim, is there an English translation of this Aramaic Bible you are referring to? If so, where could I find one?

#18 justthinking

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 08:44 AM

You will find that the vast majority of Muslims have no problem with academic discussion.

You say: "If someone says Islam is not the truth about God, have they insulted Islam (in the eyes of Muslims)? If so, then it follows that anyone who says Christianity is not the truth about God has insulted Christianity (in the eyes of Christians)."

In short, no this is not an insult - this is just a difference in opinion.

Isn't it okay to have discussions about differences in religion? If Muslims say that the Bible is not the word of God or that Jesus is not the son of God, then this is not abuse. If you as a Christian say that the Quran is not the word of God, then likewise this is not abuse.

You are free to question Islamic beliefs, as Muslims are free to question Christian beliefs.

Additionally, you will find that no Muslim will ever disprespect Jesus or abuse him or his mother.

I, as a Muslim, am offended when any Prophet of God (including Jesus or Moses, or Muhammad - peace be upon them all) is abused or made fun of - I dont think it's right to abuse,

If a Christian says that the Quran is not the word of God, or that Muhammad (pbuhahf) is not the messenger of God, then likewise this is not offensive or disrespectful to a Muslim. We can discuss it.

It's when the line is crossed, and Prophets or God are made fun of, abused or degraded, then this should be offensive to a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.

In fact the widespread disrespect and abuse of Jesus comes mainly from Christian countries, not from Muslim countries.

In the past when Jesus was parodied or disrespected, Christians were outraged. One name springs immediately to mind: Madonna - remember her videos?

This has grown to such a level now, it has been accepted within western society that abusing or degrading Jesus can be openly done.

It is so normal for Jesus to be parodied and degraded within Christian society, that you no longer find it offensive, and do nothing about it.

You have been desensitised to it - and therefore think that someone abusing or degrading our Prophet is also something we should accept too.

When in fact, you should be directing your attention to those who have brainwashed you to think that 'free speech' means that people should be free to abuse Jesus in your own society.

You say it's "over a FREAKING CARTOON".

Do you think a cartoon is nothing? Well, I'd like to see what you'd say if someone drew an offensive cartoon of your mother and posted it on the Internet and printed it in newspapers and magazines - would you still think it's just a freaking cartoon?

It doesn't matter what form abuse comes in, abuse is abuse.

In America, Lady Gaga dresses like a nun in rubber clothing, and places a crucafix to her groin area, and no one says anything or stops her. You would never find anyone in a muslim country performing this act towards Christianity.

When she came to perform in Indonesia recently, muslim protests forced her to cancel her concert. If Christians did this, then we wouldn't have disturbed individuals going around spreading such filth and polluting the minds of the youth on a global level.

Rather than finding fault with Muslims who do not degrade or abuse Jesus - why do you not find fault with the real perpetrators of abuse towards Jesus and Christianity within your own society?

Muslims stand up for the dignity and moral character of our Prophet and yours.

As a Christian, so should you.

You are free to discuss any aspect of Islam with a Muslim, even to say you don't believe that Muhammad is a Prophet. Do not confuse discussion, with insult - they are not the same thing.

You believe in ONE God, and we believe in ONE God.

People of faith should allow their love of God to be something we unite over - the differences we can talk about in a sensible and civilised way without being offensive towards each other.

This is how to live in peace.

#19 placid

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:50 AM

Hi Justthinking,

I agree with you that we should be able to enter into mutual discussion without offense, and deal with some of the differences between us, with no thought of changing the other, but to be better enlightened about our own and others’ beliefs.

I have read Mr Pickthall’s translation of the Quran, with all of the history, as well as the intro to each Surah which gives the time they were revealed, and often the situation, or reason, as to when and why it was revealed.
I accept Muhammad as a Prophet whom God called through a vision of Gabriel, who is named as the one who revealed the Scriptures from God to him.

I believe the Bible, and the revelations that contain Scripture given in the Quran and I am greatly disappointed when there is offense and slander on either side, as you have pointed out.

Quote from Post 18:
It's when the line is crossed, and Prophets or God are made fun of, abused or degraded, then this should be offensive to a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.
In fact the widespread disrespect and abuse of Jesus comes mainly from Christian countries, not from Muslim countries.
In the past when Jesus was parodied or disrespected, Christians were outraged. One name springs immediately to mind: Madonna - remember her videos?
This has grown to such a level now, it has been accepted within western society that abusing or degrading Jesus can be openly done.
It is so normal for Jesus to be parodied and degraded within Christian society, that you no longer find it offensive, and do nothing about it.
You have been desensitised to it - and therefore think that someone abusing or degrading our Prophet is also something we should accept too.


Response: --- This is the general understanding by many, and when you say,
--- “In fact the widespread disrespect and abuse of Jesus comes mainly from Christian countries, not from Muslim countries.”

This is the misunderstanding, --- because the countries that embraced Christianity and democracy have been dominated by the world’s values, so they can no longer be referred to as Christian countries.

The Scripture says that we have three enemies, “The world, --- the flesh --- and the devil.” --- The freedom of democracy allows people to ‘live and let live.’
I believe that is why Muslims are attracted to non-Muslim countries, is it not, --- so they too can ‘live and let live.’

When you make mention of the worlds of finance, and entertainment. it is driven and promoted by the ‘world, the flesh, and the devil.’ --- The greed of man quickly can overrule moral principles, that were taught by grandparents and great grandparents, --- when there was honor and respect for God and religion.
(Even the ‘parents’ generation have mostly gone the way of the world.)

Quote: One name springs immediately to mind: Madonna - remember her videos?


Response: --- When you say, ‘Remember her videos.’ --- I can’t do that. --- I have never seen them, nor do we watch the immorality displayed on TV.
(You can choose your channels, so that you can select wholesome programs. --- We get enough ‘negativism’ from the news.)

As believing Christians we keep a low profile, but we follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.
The Gospel teaches Love and Peace, --- not hatred and war.

There is an appropriate teaching in 1 John 1:
15. Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.
17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

There are Christians who prosper in the world, and if they are yielded to God’s will, they can use their fortunes for good, --- but if they are self-seeking, God will judge them.

Jesus said “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord!, shall enter the kingdom of heaven.”

Thank you for your post and be assured that ‘Believing Christians’ do not promote world values. --- We are of necessity ‘in the world, but not of the world.’


Placid



#20 Psyche24

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:15 PM


As I review your questions I concluded that your logic is unsound and bias in so many ways. First, christian scholars do not agree on the purity of the Bible, new scrolls are discovered and books released from the Vatican that dispute the doctrine that is common among christians today. Additionally, there are sects of christians that dispute that Jesus (as) is god or the son of god. The doctrine of Paul differs significantly over the teaching of Jesus' companions, so much so that it is a different religion than what was originally taught.


Do you even know what the title "Son of God" means? Are you one of those uninformed Muslims who actually take it literally?
Christians believe that Jesus is God and the Son of God (God-incarnated). Not much dispute there.
How does the teachings of Paul differ from the rest of the apostles?

(bismillah)

Brothers and sisters, as a devout Christian and those who are devout Christians would say “Do not Judge “as only GOD is our heavenly father and will he judge us all . so as a Christian i would not dare question the Quran or the HOLY prophet peace be upon him and his family . As GOD has put me on this earth to follow the words of our prophets to learn and use these holy words to do well and love mankind as a whole.

This world is rampant with wretchedness and unbelievers and dwellers of evil, do not be fooled so easily as the devil will show himself as a Christian and as a Muslim and a Jew . do not force your ideas and or punish those who do not follow your path as GOD has made many paths to him, we are humans we are not GOD or prophets to say what is right and what is wrong, share your faith teach the words our prophets spoke and lets us all pray that we will sit with our maker in heaven INSHALLAH.

Blessing to you all.

N


How can you be a Christian and call Mohammad "holy" and say "peace be upon him and his family"?

"As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:9 KJV)



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