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Was Prophet Muhammad (saw) Illiterate?

prophet muhammad illiterate

41 replies to this topic

#1 ThE-Samz

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:32 PM

salaam alaikum brothers and sister,

i was wondering whether prophet Muhammad (saw) was illiterate? i have come across this before when i used to go to madressah (sunday school) but i forgot. i think he wasnt but i have come across brothers from different sects who said that he was illiterate. can anyone help me out in this topic, would be kindly appreciated. jazakallah.

#2 BillyJo

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:22 PM

salaam alaikum brothers and sister,

i was wondering whether prophet Muhammad (saw) was illiterate? i have come across this before when i used to go to madressah (sunday school) but i forgot. i think he wasnt but i have come across brothers from different sects who said that he was illiterate. can anyone help me out in this topic, would be kindly appreciated. jazakallah.


Shia's have two opinions on the subject, the first is he was not illiterate the second is he could if he wanted to but to protect the Quran from being attacked he didn't do so

#3 -Enlightened

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:26 PM

yes he was illiterate and this is a good proof that mohamed did not copy the bible or the torah to write the quran , but it was a revelation from Allah .
An illiterate being able to read right after receiving guidance from Allah. The biggest miracle in humanity

#4 Allahuakbar

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:55 PM

I think this is one of those things that will not end in agreement. The word ummi could also mean Meccan.

#5 Ali Shahed

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 12:54 AM

AS,
He was highly ll i t e r a te ! ignore those trash mouths and nvr doubt the greatness of imams or prophet. even if the whole world tells u something different.



#6 ya)ali

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 02:24 AM

No He wasn't illitrate, how can Allah make him a Prophet and not give him the unseen knowledge (are any of the president illitrate? (dont count Pakistan, Haha ))? Allah says he wouldnt have made earth if it wasnt for Prophet Muhammad and then we come along and ask if he knew how to read and write doesnt make sense. Only Wahabi's say he was illitrate because they have poor hadith and elders werent educated so they try to call the prophet the same, but we shouldnt even rasie this question in our heads besaue if we look at our Imam they knew the knowledge of this world and beyond.There are countless examples you can find on what the Prophet and the Imams have said.

If i offended anyone please forgive me.

#7 Taha Shoeb

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 04:17 AM

As far as the word 'illiterate' is considered by its formal definition i.e. One who is unable to read and write, one can assume the Prophet PBUH to have been so to accomplish the task of proclaiming the Qur'an. This does not contend the Prophet to be part of the word's synonymous meanings which are in absolute contradiction to the Sira of the Prophet PBUH where there can be seen no falteration in morality except in instances where there is an event related to reading or writing.

#8 Nader Zaveri

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:46 AM

(salam)
(bismillah)

I have made a post on my blog giving a SaHeeH (Authentic) hadeeth on the reason why the Prophet (pbuh) was called al-Ummi in the Qur'aan. Click link below.

Reason Behind the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) being Named Ummi



(salam)

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 04 February 2012 - 05:47 AM.


#9 Aabiss_Shakari

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:36 AM

My friends were of the view that i can not write because i never wrote before them. Valid reason?

#10 John Al-Ameli

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 03:32 PM

I don't know much about that subject.

But there is an important question,

If a person who was illeterate told you about a God that you had no clue about, would you believe him?

I don't think so

سأل أحد الناس الامام علي بن موسى بن جعفرالرضا ( عليه السلام ) فقال له : يابن رسول الله لم سمي النبي الأمي ؟ فقال عليه السلام : مايقول الناس ؟ فقال الرجل : يقولون أنه سمي الأمي لأنه لم يكن يحسن أن يكتب أو يقرأ
فقال عليه السلام : كذبوا على رسول الله ، حسبهم الله ، إذن كيف يقول الله في محكم كتابه المجيد وبيانه الحكيم "هو الذي بعث في الأميين رسولا منهم يتلوا عليهم آياته ويزكيهم ويعلمهم الكتاب والحكمة" ، فكيف كان يعلمهم ما لا يحسن أصلا ؟ والله لقد كان رسول الله يقرأ ويكتب بعدد لغات اهل الأرض والسماء مما علمه عالم السر وأخفى ، وإنما سمي (بالأمي) لأنه كان من أهل مكة ، ومكة من أمهات القرى ، وذلك تجده في قول الله عزوجل "ولينذر أم القرى ومن حولها


#11 ThE-Samz

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 05:11 PM

@shi3i: i'm one of those with the first opinion but im not totally sure. If possible can u expand on the second opinion, as in how would it prevent the holy QUr'an from being attacked.

@enlightened_x: so ur view is that he was illiterate but after Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì guided him, he could read and write?

@Allahuakbar: yh its one of the vague issues and doesnt get discussed very much when i go to listen to lectures in mosque.

@behayaat: interesting view.

@ya(ali: interesting view, and i agree with you. The Holy prophet (saw) did have knowledge of this world and the unseen, but does that prove that he could read and write. And as much as we love, we cant blame the salfis all the time.

@Taha shoeb: Yh interesting view, i think ur view is that of the consensus.

@Nader zaveri: thats an intersting blog, and ur view is that he could read but not write yes? but thats hard to believe, surely if someone can read a language, he can surely write it too. i think it more of a case of that he (saw) could write but chose not to.

@Aabiss_shakari: Im sorry but can u expand on ur point, i dont see what point ur tryin to make, thank you.

@RoAcHy: interesting point and true. Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì granted the prophet (saw) lots of knowledge but u dont to be literate to convey the message. im nt sayin that i agree that with this point, but im saying it could be a possible.

Thank you for replying to the posts, jazakallah brothers. hopefully u can enlighten me more in this subject.

#12 John Al-Ameli

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:17 PM

@RoAcHy: interesting point and true. Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì granted the prophet (saw) lots of knowledge but u dont to be literate to convey the message. im nt sayin that i agree that with this point, but im saying it could be a possible.

If you don't read Arabic, I can translate it for you. Its a Hadith.

#13 ya)ali

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:02 PM

The knowledge of seen and unseen definitely means he knew how to read and write. Question to all who are reading this post, so if you all say he didnt know how to read and write doesnt that make us more knowledeable? cuz we know how to write and read. And Who said the Masomeen (infallible personalities) have to go to school? Will the 12th Imam Have to start kindergranden and go get a Phd to prove to us that he is learned Imam.

Edited by ya)ali, 04 February 2012 - 11:03 PM.


#14 Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:18 PM

Proof that he (pbuh) didn't copy the Bible is that the Qur'an gives different accounts than the Bible, and history has proven parts of the Bible wrong whereas the account the Qur'an gave was right.

If he copied, he would've copied the wrong information, but we don't see any of that.

#15 ThE-Samz

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 12:29 AM

@RoAcHy: Thank you, i can read arabic, but cant understand. it would be much appreciated if u could translate the hadith. jazakallah.

@Ya(ali: yh i get ur point, but Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì granted the holy prophet (saw) lots of knowledge of the seen and the unseen, u dont have to be literate to be able to impart the knowledge. im not sopporting this view, but it is a possibility.

@dawud miqdad al-amriki: True point but that doesnt have anything to do with this topic, pls try not to go off topic jazakallah.

#16 ya)ali

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 02:10 AM

Didn't the prophet say bring me a Pen and a paper i will write the Hadith for you. and the people said no no Prophet the Quran is best for us. If anyone can enlighten us with the real story that will be appreciated, thanks in advance.

#17 Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 02:16 AM

There are, as previously stated by others, many 'Ulema who reject this. Read the following, insha'Allah:

"Why was the Prophet called Ummi? Was He unlettered?"

The infallible Imams from the pure progeny of the holy Prophet (peace be upon them) stated that their grandfather the Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him and his pure family) was not only able to read and write, but he had a good command of seventy-three languages. However, despite his phenomenal literacy, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his pure family) used not to show this ability in front of the non-believers of Quraish; because had he shown it, he would have been accused of having acquired his knowledge via tutors rather than being divinely inspired.

In regard to the word ‘Ummi’ mentioned in the holy Quran as in the following verse: “Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Torah and the Gospel” (007:157), Imam Muhammad al-Jawad (peace be upon him) has adequately explained its meaning in the following narrations:

Al-Saffar (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Narrated Ali bin Asba`t or [and] others who had said: "I said to Abu` Jafar (al-Jawad): 'People claim that the Prophet (peace be upon him and his pure family) could neither read nor write!' So, he, peace be upon him, denied that and said: 'They have lied, May the wrath of Allah be upon them! How would that be? When Allah, the Exalted, has said: '(It is) He who raised among the Ummīyīna (i.e. maternals) a Messenger from amongst them, reciting upon them His signs and purifying them and teaching them the Book and the wisdom; even though beforehand they were in a clear straying' How did he teach them the Book and the Wisdom while he could neither read nor write?’

Then Ali bin Asba`t asked the Imam: "Why was he called al-Nabi al-Ummi? To which the Imam (peace be upon him) replied: "Because he was ascribed to Mecca. That is according to the words of Allah, the Most Exalted: 'That you may warn Umm al-Qura` (i.e. the mother of villages) and those around it.' Umm al-Qura` means Mecca. So, he was called Ummi.” (Basair al-darajat, By al-Saffar, vol. 5, p. 246).


Furthermore, al-Saduq (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Narrated Ja’far ibn Muhammad al-Sufi: “I asked Abu Ja’far Muhammad son of Ali al-Rida (peace be upon them both) saying: ‘O son of Allah’s Apostle, why was the Prophet called Ummi?’ He answered: ‘What do the people say?’ I said: ‘They claim that he was called Ummi because he was illiterate.

“He replied: ‘They lie! May the curse of Allah be upon them, Allah has clearly said in His Book: ‘(It is) He who raised among the Ummīyīna (i.e. maternals) a Messenger from amongst them, reciting upon them His signs and purifying them and teaching them the Book and the wisdom’ How would he teach what he himself could not do?

“By Allah, Allah’s Apostle (peace be upon him and his pure family) used to read and write in 72, or he said 73, languages. He was called Ummi because he was from Mecca. Mecca is one of the mother towns, and this is why Allah the Most Exalted has said: ‘So that you (Muhammad) may warn the mother of villages (i.e. Mecca) and whoever is around it’.” (Ma’ani al-Akhbar, By al-Saduq, p. 53).

Accordingly, the holy Prophet (May peace be upon him and his pure family) was called Ummi in reference to Umm al-Qura which is Mecca. In other words ‘al-Nabi al-Ummi’ means a Prophet from Mecca. Similarly, one may notice that Allah the Most Exalted has also referred to the inhabitants of Mecca as “Ummīyīna” as in the following verse: “(It is) He who raised among the Ummīyīna (maternals)” (62:02) although the inhabitants of Mecca at that time were not all unable to read or write, but they were called so in reference to the holy city of Mecca.

In regard to the Quranic verse quoted in the question: “And you did not recite before it any book, nor did you transcribe one with your right hand, for then could those who say untrue things have doubted” (29:48) In the passage, Allah the Most Exalted denied that the Prophet (peace be upon him and his pure family) had shown his ability to read and write in the presence of non-believers, but did not state that the Prophet (peace be upon him and his pure family) was incapable of reading or writing.

30th Muharram 1431
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Edited by Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki, 05 February 2012 - 02:17 AM.

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#18 Ali Musaaa :)

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 02:21 AM

Didn't the prophet say bring me a Pen and a paper i will write the Hadith for you. and the people said no no Prophet the Quran is best for us. If anyone can enlighten us with the real story that will be appreciated, thanks in advance.



Yes, but I think it was for his scribes to write for him. I am not 100% sure. I watch a lecture by Ammar Nakshwanki and it explained it really well, buuuut I can't seem to remember much of it -_- but you can listen to it and it will InshAllah help you :)

http://www.sayedamma...an2007popo.html

He is a really good speaker and my favourite :P

Wassalaam

#19 Nader Zaveri

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:59 AM

(salam)
(bismillah)

سأل أحد الناس الامام علي بن موسى بن جعفرالرضا ( عليه السلام ) فقال له : يابن رسول الله لم سمي النبي الأمي ؟ فقال عليه السلام : مايقول الناس ؟ فقال الرجل : يقولون أنه سمي الأمي لأنه لم يكن يحسن أن يكتب أو يقرأ
فقال عليه السلام : كذبوا على رسول الله ، حسبهم الله ، إذن كيف يقول الله في محكم كتابه المجيد وبيانه الحكيم "هو الذي بعث في الأميين رسولا منهم يتلوا عليهم آياته ويزكيهم ويعلمهم الكتاب والحكمة" ، فكيف كان يعلمهم ما لا يحسن أصلا ؟ والله لقد كان رسول الله يقرأ ويكتب بعدد لغات اهل الأرض والسماء مما علمه عالم السر وأخفى ، وإنما سمي (بالأمي) لأنه كان من أهل مكة ، ومكة من أمهات القرى ، وذلك تجده في قول الله عزوجل "ولينذر أم القرى ومن حولها

This hadeeth is Da`eef. When you have conflicting narrations like this, surely you will follow the authentic one, right? And the authentic narration about this is what I posted on my blog.

@Nader zaveri: thats an intersting blog, and ur view is that he could read but not write yes? but thats hard to believe, surely if someone can read a language, he can surely write it too. i think it more of a case of that he (saw) could write but chose not to.

It isn't so hard to believe. It could be that he could write, but he CHOSE not to write. That hadeeth could mean he couldn't write or he CHOSE not to write.

"Why was the Prophet called Ummi? Was He unlettered?"

Those hadeeth he mentioned are all da`eef (weak) as I have mentioned in my blog post already. That specific hadeeth about `Alee bin Asbaat is marfoo` (raised) meaning there are 2+ people missing in the chain. The actual Arabic says he "rafa`hu" to Abee Ja`far (5th Imaam), and not the Imaam al-Jawad.

(salam)

#20 John Al-Ameli

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 06:28 AM

@RoAcHy: Thank you, i can read arabic, but cant understand. it would be much appreciated if u could translate the hadith. jazakallah.



سأل أحد الناس الامام علي بن موسى بن جعفرالرضا ( عليه السلام ) فقال له : يابن رسول الله لم سمي النبي الأمي ؟ فقال عليه السلام : مايقول الناس ؟ فقال الرجل : يقولون أنه سمي الأمي لأنه لم يكن يحسن أن يكتب أو يقرأ
فقال عليه السلام : كذبوا على رسول الله ، حسبهم الله ، إذن كيف يقول الله في محكم كتابه المجيد وبيانه الحكيم "هو الذي بعث في الأميين رسولا منهم يتلوا عليهم آياته ويزكيهم ويعلمهم الكتاب والحكمة" ، فكيف كان يعلمهم ما لا يحسن أصلا ؟ والله لقد كان رسول الله يقرأ ويكتب بعدد لغات اهل الأرض والسماء مما علمه عالم السر وأخفى ، وإنما سمي (بالأمي) لأنه كان من أهل مكة ، ومكة من أمهات القرى ، وذلك تجده في قول الله عزوجل "ولينذر أم القرى ومن حولها


Some one once asked Imam Ali bin Moussa bin Jaafar Al Rida (as): Oh son of Prophet Mohamad, why was the Prophet named "Ummi"? (as) Said: What do the people say? The man said: The people say he is called "Ummi" because he didn't know how to read and right. Imam Ali al Rida said: They lied about the prophet, Then how is it said in the Qur'an, "هو الذي بعث في الأميين رسولا منهم يتلوا عليهم آياته ويزكيهم ويعلمهم الكتاب والحكمة", how can he teach them what he can't do? I swear to Allah, the Messenger of Allah used to read and write, in the many languages of the people of this world, but he was named "Ummi" because he was from the people of Mecca, and Mecca is from Umm al Qura, and in that you find Allah ('Azza wa Jall) saying "ولينذر أم القرى ومن حولها"


(salam)
(bismillah)

This hadeeth is Da`eef. When you have conflicting narrations like this, surely you will follow the authentic one, right? And the authentic narration about this is what I posted on my blog.

It isn't so hard to believe. It could be that he could write, but he CHOSE not to write. That hadeeth could mean he couldn't write or he CHOSE not to write.

Those hadeeth he mentioned are all da`eef (weak) as I have mentioned in my blog post already. That specific hadeeth about `Alee bin Asbaat is marfoo` (raised)meaning there are 2+ people missing in the chain. The actual Arabic says he "rafa`hu" to Abee Ja`far (5th Imaam), and not the Imaam al-Jawad.

(salam)


With all my respect, it is also about what makes sense and what doesnt, and what is more logical. I find the Hadith I put, more logical.
Looking at a Hadith, is about its authenticity, AND about if I think about Ahlulbayt, and say, is it logic that they would do this?

What is the Wisdom of the prophet knowing how to read, and "Choosing" not to write? I don't find any wisdom behind it.

If you are calling your Hadeeth correct, then you are nuking the Hadeeth, of Prophet Muhammad (saw) saying "Get me a pen and paper, and come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray."

Edited by RoAcHy, 05 February 2012 - 06:32 AM.


#21 LoveforTruth

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:54 AM

Some people call Da'eef what is not, because they apply the Sunni rules of 'ilm ar-rijâl although this is against the teaching of the Ma'sumin (as).

Anyway, this hadith :



أبي رحمه الله قال حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله قال حدثني معاوية بن حكيم عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبي نصرعن بعض أصحابه عن أبي عبد الله ع قال كان مما من الله عز و جل على رسول الله ص أنه كان يقرأ و لا يكتب فلما توجه أبو سفيان إلى أحد كتب العباس إلى النبي ص فجاءه الكتاب و هو في بعض حيطان المدينة فقرأه و لم يخبر أصحابه و أمرهم أن يدخلوا المدينة فلما دخلوا المدينة أخبرهم

“It was from Allaah (عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ) onto the Messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) that he used to (or, would) read/recite, but not write. The time when Aboo Sufyaan headed for Uhud, Al-`Abbaas (the Prophet’s uncle), wrote to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). And he received the letter when he was within one of the walls of Madeenah. He read it, but did not tell his companions. He ordered them to enter the city, (then) he informed them (the contents of the letter).”

Source:
1. Al-Sadooq, Ilal Al-Sharaa’i`, vol. 1, ch. 105, pg. 125 - 126

this hadith doesn't say that Rasuluh Llâh (saws) doesn't know how to write, it means that it is not in his habits to write (Books, Letters, ...) because he used to ask Imam 'Ali (as) to do it for him. Each one had his mission and is fonction.
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#22 Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 01:19 PM

(salam)
(bismillah)

This hadeeth is Da`eef. When you have conflicting narrations like this, surely you will follow the authentic one, right? And the authentic narration about this is what I posted on my blog.

It isn't so hard to believe. It could be that he could write, but he CHOSE not to write. That hadeeth could mean he couldn't write or he CHOSE not to write.

Those hadeeth he mentioned are all da`eef (weak) as I have mentioned in my blog post already. That specific hadeeth about `Alee bin Asbaat is marfoo` (raised) meaning there are 2+ people missing in the chain. The actual Arabic says he "rafa`hu" to Abee Ja`far (5th Imaam), and not the Imaam al-Jawad.

(salam)


(wasalam)

LoveforTruth responded to your accusation before I could, so I quote LoveforTruth below.

But essentially, you don't seem to understand the Shi'a method of studying and ruling from hadith. And I'm quite certain you don't understand it better than Sheikh Yasser al-Habib whose argument you're attempting to weaken by calling the hadith he quoted as da'eef. He specializes in both Bakri and Shi'i study of hadith, so if you have a concise intellectual argument you'd like to bring against him then let me know and I'll take it to him and inshallah he can respond and either refute you or accept your superior argument.

http://wilayat.net/i...icles&Itemid=70

Some people call Da'eef what is not, because they apply the Sunni rules of 'ilm ar-rijâl although this is against the teaching of the Ma'sumin (as).

Anyway, this hadith :



أبي رحمه الله قال حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله قال حدثني معاوية بن حكيم عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبي نصرعن بعض أصحابه عن أبي عبد الله ع قال كان مما من الله عز و جل على رسول الله ص أنه كان يقرأ و لا يكتب فلما توجه أبو سفيان إلى أحد كتب العباس إلى النبي ص فجاءه الكتاب و هو في بعض حيطان المدينة فقرأه و لم يخبر أصحابه و أمرهم أن يدخلوا المدينة فلما دخلوا المدينة أخبرهم

“It was from Allaah (عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ) onto the Messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) that he used to (or, would) read/recite, but not write. The time when Aboo Sufyaan headed for Uhud, Al-`Abbaas (the Prophet’s uncle), wrote to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). And he received the letter when he was within one of the walls of Madeenah. He read it, but did not tell his companions. He ordered them to enter the city, (then) he informed them (the contents of the letter).”

Source:
1. Al-Sadooq, Ilal Al-Sharaa’i`, vol. 1, ch. 105, pg. 125 - 126

this hadith doesn't say that Rasuluh Llâh (saws) doesn't know how to write, it means that it is not in his habits to write (Books, Letters, ...) because he used to ask Imam 'Ali (as) to do it for him. Each one had his mission and is fonction.


Edited by Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki, 05 February 2012 - 01:23 PM.


#23 ThE-Samz

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:02 PM

@Ya)ali: yes that is the correct story. but at that time The holy prophet (saw) was very ill, he couldnt even stand on his own to feet so i think it could be a possibility that he was going to have someone else right it down.

@dawud: thank you for those hadeeth but could u actually tell me whether its a strong or weak hadeeth as brother @nader zaderi says its weak and ur saying its trustworthy. that would be really helpful thanks.

@Ali: There couldve been a possibility that he was going to have someone wlse right it down due to his health but we cant be certain. i totally agree with you, sayed ammar is the best speaker out there, learn something new from every lecture. Thank you soooooooooooooooooooooo muuuuuuuuuch for that link, i was hoping he had done a lecture on this subject. i will listen to it when im free. jazakallah.

@RoAcHy: Thank you for the hadeeth and translation, but as mentioned above, i would love it if someone could provide proof as to its authenticity. jazakallah.

@LoveForTruth: Thank you fro your post, and i probably agree with ur point that he could read and write but it was not in is habits. it sounds logical to me at the moment.

@Dawud: i dnt want to take this off topic, but can sheikh Habib be trusted as he has come out publicly with controversial statements, most notably calling Aisha a prostitute. i dnt mean to discredit his work, but i just wonder if he can be trusted.

#24 Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:20 PM

(salam)

@dawud: thank you for those hadeeth but could u actually tell me whether its a strong or weak hadeeth as brother @nader zaderi says its weak and ur saying its trustworthy. that would be really helpful thanks.


I don't know if it's strong or weak, he might be right, but my point is that Sheikh Yasser al-Habib would not quote something unless there was evidence for it. He takes evidence very seriously.

The main issue is the understanding of ahadith.

We (Shi'a) do not say "Oh that hadith is weak, reject it, throw it away" because what if you're wrong and that hadith is authentic and was actually said by the Imaam (as)? Then you've just rebelled and went against the Imaam's words.

So if it doesn't go against the Qur'an, then we can accept it, but if it's something dodgy that we don't understand then we set it aside with humility and say "I won't make a decision on this, I will give it back to the Imaam (as) for him to tell me". So we wait for Mahdi (ajtf) on that hadith.

But the Hadith I quoted from Sheikh Yasser al-Habib is nothing controversial or against Qur'an. In fact it is supported by many other ahadith and evidences. So to reject it is kind of silly, because we have no authentic hadith in greater number than these hadith which say that he was illiterate.

For example... this is purely hypothetical but to illustrate my point to help understand the way we look at hadith:

Qur'an doesn't say Prophet (pbuh) was illiterate, it needs to be understood through the Imaams (as)

20 hadith are narrated about the Prophet (pbuh) being literate, many of them say it is kufr to say he was illiterate... they're all weak...

It doesn't matter that they're all weak because these are what we have to go by, and they are in compliance with the Qur'an, and they have a strong warning behind them. As a precaution, the mujtahid and 'aalim will most probably quote these hadith and rely on them as authentic.

This concept of weak/strong ahadith doesn't exist in Shi'a Islam the same way as the Bakriyyah sect. The Bakri's use this method of weakening hadith just so that they can push their kufr through and weaken Ahlul-Bayt (as). Any hadith narrated by lovers and followers of Ahlul-Bayt (as) will be rejected by them as weak hadith.

So, you get hadith that have strong Isnad, SaHeeH, but the Matn (the text itself) is saying "Allah has a hand and a shin and a foot and will put his foot over hellfre to seal it and show people his shin so they recognize him"

Well, it's SaHeeH! But it's Kufr

I don't care if it's SaHeeH or Da'eef, I care if it stands up against the Qur'an. If it's SaHeeH and goes against Qur'an, we reject it immediately as per the hadith from Imaams (as). If it's da'eef and doesn't go against Qur'an, we don't reject it. We're humble about it and sometimes set ahadith aside and just wait because we don't know.

@Dawud: i dnt want to take this off topic, but can sheikh Habib be trusted as he has come out publicly with controversial statements, most notably calling Aisha a prostitute. i dnt mean to discredit his work, but i just wonder if he can be trusted.


Sheikh Yasir al-Habib is my Sheikh, I respect him greatly and unless there is ever a good reason for me not to, then I will continue doing so.

Sheikh Yasir al-Habib only quotes the books and his stance on Aisha and others is from the books. People try to discredit him due to political reasons, but who can blame someone for quoting from books?

They say "we must not lift taqiyyah" but they misunderstand the traditions talking about taqiyyah. The traditions they quote are referring to jihaad, and also to specific cases. But we must be vocal with wisdom and truth. What Sheikh Yasir al-Habib is doing has been responsible for many people coming to the school of Ahlul-Bayt (as). A lot of people have thanked him and learned so much from him, because he is teaching them the books, and encouraging them to read the books.

He isn't just talking from opinion.

So, what you should do, if you want to know about him whether he can be trusted, is listen to what he says, and then verify it for yourself. If you find that he is lying about something then don't trust him. But the fact that he gives references for everything he says, and the fact that he doesn't do Taqiyyah, shows the high probability that he is not lying.

One time, Sheikh Yassir was out in the street beside a shop, and some Salafi Bakris shouted "I bet you won't curse Omar infront of me" lol so Sheikh Yasser cursed Umar in response to them. He speaks what he believes, and I appreciate that in a seeker of knowledge, for them not to lie to me and not to be a hypocrit--say one thing, do another.

Allahu 3lem akhi, feel free to ask me any questions you have, add me to facebook if you have it: http://www.facebook.com/dalamriki

#25 John Al-Ameli

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 08:45 PM

Sheikh Yasir al-Habib is my Sheikh, I respect him greatly and unless there is ever a good reason for me not to, then I will continue doing so.

Sheikh Yasir al-Habib only quotes the books and his stance on Aisha and others is from the books. People try to discredit him due to political reasons, but who can blame someone for quoting from books?

They say "we must not lift taqiyyah" but they misunderstand the traditions talking about taqiyyah. The traditions they quote are referring to jihaad, and also to specific cases. But we must be vocal with wisdom and truth. What Sheikh Yasir al-Habib is doing has been responsible for many people coming to the school of Ahlul-Bayt (as). A lot of people have thanked him and learned so much from him, because he is teaching them the books, and encouraging them to read the books.

He isn't just talking from opinion.

So, what you should do, if you want to know about him whether he can be trusted, is listen to what he says, and then verify it for yourself. If you find that he is lying about something then don't trust him. But the fact that he gives references for everything he says, and the fact that he doesn't do Taqiyyah, shows the high probability that he is not lying.

One time, Sheikh Yassir was out in the street beside a shop, and some Salafi Bakris shouted "I bet you won't curse Omar infront of me" lol so Sheikh Yasser cursed Umar in response to them. He speaks what he believes, and I appreciate that in a seeker of knowledge, for them not to lie to me and not to be a hypocrit--say one thing, do another.

Allahu 3lem akhi, feel free to ask me any questions you have, add me to facebook if you have it: http://www.facebook.com/dalamriki

I don't want to turn this thread to Sheikh Yasser Habib issue, but I want to clear a couple of things out.

1st. You claim Sheikh Yasser Habib ONLY highlights and quotes things from books. But because of political reasons, other people don't do that, But thats not true, do you have Al Kawthar TV? Al Kawthar TV is for the Islamic Republic of Iran, Television of the Rahbar. Sayyed Kamal Haydari has a very nice show, were he reads out of Sunna books and proves them wrong. But why do people, don't make a fuss about Sayed Kamal but make a fuss about Sheikh Yasser, its because how you let people interpret, and its because of how you say things and portray things. One person elaborates and explains with proofs, and nother person strikes words that can make Fitna.

2nd. I'm sure everyone in here knows about the Sunna faith more than the Sunnis know. But don't you think right now there is an enemy killing us day by day, and threatening the Muslim and Arab world, and finishing him off is much better than remembering what happend a thousand years ago, because as much as we will talk about it, it wont be benefiting anyone but the Zionists. "Divide and Conquer". And as much as we talked about Omar, Abu Bakir, Aisha, and Uthman, and how filthy they are and how big of traitors and Kufar they are, it wont change anything. So its rather we learn from all the Ahadeeth of Ahlulbayt and learn from them how to deal with issues right now, rather than just memorizing them and saying, YES Ahlulbayt did this, and people mistreated Ahlulbayt. Well learn and do what Ahlulbayt did. Ahadeeth are made to learn from and conduct in our daily life. There is a Omar of this century, Yazeed of this century, Uthman of this century, etc.. And we should learn how to deal with them rather than all we do is talk about 2000 years what these people did.

3rd. You say Sheykh Yasser Habib is logical because he doesn't do Taqiyya and he does Laa'n infornt of Sunna. Well, first it is Haram, because lets say you curse Omar infront of a Sunni, then he cursed someone from Ahlul Bayt, now whose fault would it be? His fault because he cursed, or your fault because you brought the curse towards Ahlul Bayt? And dont say Taqiyya and I dont know what. If you have a stingy cousin that always bothers you, you would tell your cousin, you are a stingy cousin get out of my house? No, because you will talk to him "Fi Allati Hiya A7san". So if you have a Sunni, you can work on making him closer and work on letting him get guided to our belief, rather than looking at us and scram away.

I just thought of that since this is the Week of Islamic Unity, and from this week I think we learn a lot.

Edited by RoAcHy, 05 February 2012 - 08:52 PM.




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