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Tawheed Of The Shias


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#1 Al-Khamis

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:15 PM

Assalamu aleykum

Al-Hamdulillahi Rabbil Aalamin, and may peace and blessing be with the Messenger, his noble family and his companions

Dear Shia members here, after spending years reasearching on Shia faith I still haven't been able to grasp what Tawheed really means to Shiites. No Shia will disagree with me that this is the most important article in Islam. All our deeds depend on it and surely one can not claim Tawheed and practise shirk at the same time. One is either a Muslim or a Mushrik.
While some topics discussed here between Ahlul Sunnah and Shia may be important, none more than the topic of Tawheed. It is Tawheed that defines who is a Muslim and who isn't.

I have sent questions on Tawheed to several Shia Scholars and I'm sorry to say that none of them gave me the answers I was looking for. Some I believe just ignored me all together. It is my hope I won't suffer the same fate here.

I wish to have a knowledgeble shia here explain to me in brief and very specific on this issue.

So these are my questions folks:

-Are there any conditions, requirements or prerequisites that come with the word "La ilaaha illa Allah" in Shia faith?

To put in another way:

-Are there any set of beliefs or deeds that nullify the word "La ilaaha illa Allah" in Shia faith?

Again please be very brief and to the point with your own explaination (not interested in copy/pasting or links)....And please only knowledgeble shias as I do not have time to waste.



Al-Khamis

#2 alimohamad40

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 04:54 AM

assalamu alaikum
you asked the right question but i have some issues which wil limit my ability to elaborate in details but inshallah in the future
now ill summurize quickly

the prophet warned that his nation will diviate and he said the jews of my nation an dthe christins of my nation

To put it in bold both mainstream shia and sunnies diviated from tawheed (unity) and my understanding of the hadeeth of the christians and the jews is the prophets reference to us....


The base of tawheed is the differentiation and distinction between the ccreated and the creator ,,, all religions that diviated did so at the fundemental issue of tawheed,,

One group described Allah by the limited descriptions of the created and the other group described the created by the unique descriptions of god...

One group shaped god and likened him to his created by limiting him, giving him the attributes of weight, shape, size, partitions , organs, complexion, form and thats the ultimate shirk and association as it would imply the assoociation between the created and the creator in the sifaat ( descriptions)

This group is the hanbali sunnie udner which the salafi and wahabi falls. They call them the hashawies or the karamies and thier prime reference is Ibn Taymyah , they are sympethetic to the umayad dynesty and make alliances with the enemies of ahlulbait

bukhari is from them as he is teh student of ahmad bin hanbal



the other group (shia mughaleen) started giving the holy humans some descriptions which are exsclusive to god only and hence associated those creatures with him (ishrak)
these people walked in the same steps as the christians (the christians of my nation)
they say the prophet knows all the knwoeldge of the unseen and that he is all hearing and all seeing and has full control over every atom of the creation.

they belive in what is called " alwylayah al takweenyah" which implies Tafweedh a concept clearly rejected by imam jafar alsadiq in his famous say:

Edited by alimohamad40, 06 January 2012 - 05:09 AM.


#3 Dawud.

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:14 AM

From Shaykh As Saduq's ÑÍãå Çááøå Kitab Al Hidayah in the section on Tawhid and what is necessary for one to believe in it.

It is necessary to believe that Allah, tabaraka wa ta`ala, is One (wahid). There is none like unto Him. He is not limited (or defined), nor is He sensed, nor is He felt, nor is He touched. Thoughts and sight do not reach Him. Neither slumber nor sleep overtakes Him. He is witness to every secret gathering. He comprehends every thing. He is attributed with neither a body nor a form, neither a substance nor accident, neither stillness nor motion, neither ascension nor descent, neither rising nor sitting, neither heaviness nor lightness, neither coming nor going, neither place nor time, neither height nor width nor depth, neither an above nor a below, neither a right nor a left, neither a behind nor a before. He never ceases to be and still is Hearer (samee`), Seer (baseer), Wise (hakeem), Knowing (`aleem), Living (hayy), Eternal (qayyuum), Holy (qudduus), Mighty (`azeez), One (ahad), Besought of All (samad). He begets not nor is He begotten, and there is none like unto Him. He is a thing unlike any other thing, outside of the two limits: the limits of negation (ibtal), and the limit of comparison (tashbeeh). He is the Creator of all things. There is no god but Him. Vision does not reach Him, but He reaches all vision. And He is the Kind (al-lateef), the Aware (al-khabeer).


Verily argument about Him is prohibited for it leads to that which is unworthy of Him. As-Sadiq (as) was asked about the saying of Allah, `azza wa jalla, “And verily unto thy Lord is the conclusion.” He said, “When discussion has reached to Allah, `azza wa jalla, then desist.”


It is narrated from Abu Ja`far (as) that he said, “Talk about the creation of Allah, but do not talk about Allah, for speech about Allah, `azza wa jalla, does not add to but confusion.”


It is necessary to believe that we know Allah by Allah, as Amir al-Mu’mineen `Ali b. Abi Talib (as) said, “Recognize Allah by Allah, and the Messenger by the message, and the Bearers of the Command (ulu 'l-amr) by the known good, justice, and beneficence.”


It was asked of Amir al-Mu’mineen, `Ali b. Abi Talib (as), “By what have you recognized your Lord?” He said, “By what he has made me recognize Himself.” It was said to him, “And how did He make you recognize His self?” He said, “An image does not portray Him. He is not sensed by the senses. He is incommensurate to mankind. Close in His distance, distanced in His closeness. Above every thing, and it is not said that anything is above Him. Before every thing, and it is not said that there is anything before Him. Inside of things, but not like a thing inside of something. Outside of things, but not like a thing from the exterior of something. Glory be to Him Who is as that, and there is no other like that. And for everything there is a beginning.”


It is necessary to believe that the pleasure (rida) of Allah is His blessing, and that His anger (ghadab) is His punishment, for verily Allah does not cease to be one thing to be (another) thing, and nothing agitates Him or causes Him to change.


As-Sadiq (as) was asked concerning the saying of Allah, `azza wa jalla, “The Merciful settled (or was even) upon the Throne.” So he said, “He is even with regards to every thing. So there no thing that is closer to Him than (another) thing.”


He said (as) “One who alleges that Allah Ta`ala is from something or in something or on something has committed shirk.” Then he (as) said, “One who alleges that Allah the Exalted is from something has made Him originated. One who alleges that He is in something has alleged that He is restricted. One who alleges that He is upon something has made Him borne.”


He (as) was asked about the saying of Allah, `azza wa jalla, “His seat encompasses the heavens and the earth”. He (as) said, “His knowledge”.


It is necessary to believe that Allah, Glorious and Exalted, does not delegate the command to the servants, and He does not compel them towards sins. Nor does He burden His servants beyond their capability. As Allah, Exalted and Glorified, said, "Allah doth not burden a soul but to its strength". As-Sadiq (as) said, “Neither compulsion nor delegation but a matter between the two affairs”.

It is related from Zurarah that he said, “I said to as-Sadiq (as) ‘May I be your ransom. What do you say about al-qada and al-qadr?’ He (as) said ‘I say: Verily when Allah, Glorious and Exalted, shall gather the servants on the Day of the Rising, He shall ask them concerning what He had entrusted to them, and He shall not ask concerning that which He had destined for them. (qada `alayhim)’”

Discussion about al-qadr is forbidden. As Amir al-Mu'mineen `Ali ibn Abi Talib (as) said to those who asked him about al-qadr, “A deep sea, do not enter it”. Then he was asked a second time about al-qadr. So he (as) said, "A dark pathway, do not journey on it". Then he was asked a third time about al-qadr. So he (as) said, “A secret of Allah, do not bother with it”.

It is necessary to believe that the Qadariyya are the Magians of this Community. They are those who intend to attribute to Allah His Justice, but they remove from Him His Authority.

http://www.tashayyu.org/hidaya/tawhid


Edited by Dawud., 06 January 2012 - 05:15 AM.


#4 Al-Khamis

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:15 AM

Na'am, briefly and to the point Is there a knowledgeble Shia here who can answer those questions?

#5 haideriam

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 08:30 PM


  • (bismillah)

  • (salam)

  • Then the Imam (as) started to deliver this tradition that is famous as “Silsila-tuz-Zahb”. He said: “My father Musa Al-Kazim (as) narrated to me from his father Ja'far As-Sadiq (as) from his father Muhammad Al-Baqir (as) from his father Ali Zaynul Abideen (as) from his father the martyr of Karbala Hussain bin Ali (as) from his father Ali bin Abi Talib (as) saying: “My dear and beloved Messenger of Allah (saw) said: Gabriel told me as such: I heard the exalted lord saying: “The kalimah of LA ILAHA IL’LALLAH is my fort, whoever entered my fort was safe from my punishment.”

  • Imam (as) paused for a moment and continued: “But with one condition and some conditions, and I am amongst one of that conditions.
    It means that Allah's fort LA ILAHA IL’LALLAH will provide you with excellent safety but on one condition only and that is the condition of Wilayat in its true sense that you obey and follow the holy Imams (as0 in the progeny of the holy Prophet (saw).

  • (wasalam)
-Are there any conditions, requirements or prerequisites that come with the word "La ilaaha illa Allah" in Shia faith?
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#6 ImamAliLover

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 08:58 PM

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم

Na'am, briefly and to the point Is there a knowledgeble Shia here who can answer those questions?

أأنت من محبي عثمان الخميس أم هل أنت هو نفسه؟

Was brother Dawud's post sufficient for you or are you looking for something in peculiar? Correct me if i am wrong but you are asking for the nullifiers of iman according to Shias?

#7 Dhulfikar

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:05 PM

-Are there any conditions, requirements or prerequisites that come with the word "La ilaaha illa Allah" in Shia faith?

To put in another way:

-Are there any set of beliefs or deeds that nullify the word "La ilaaha illa Allah" in Shia faith?

Salaam Aleikum,

Tawhiid of the Shias is very large subject to be discuss. But i will quote one hadith to answer these questions.

Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (as) said "Whoever sincerely says: "La Ilaaha illa Allah", will enter Heaven. If the person is sincere, the profession "La Ilaaha illa Allah" will refrain him from whatever Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì has forbidden"

In other words, faith is contingent upon works. and works are contingent upon faith. So our purpose is actually to attain La Ilaaha Illa Allah and dedicated our whole life to reach the reality of this phrase.

#8 Ismahan007

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:39 PM

W'salaam bro/sis,
1, Tawheed is the most important part of Islam. It was the first thing the holy prophet brought to his people, He said to them '' say there is no god but Allah and i am his messenger''. hence, the fact that our beloved prophet is included in the shahada makes it clear that he is a condition for your testimony to be accepted by Allah. nothing makes the concept of tawheed as clear as the story of prophet Adam with shaytan. shaytan worshiped Allah for many years before the creation of Adam and was among those who were elevated by status but when Allah commanded him to bow to Adam he rejected this command which led him towards God's wrath. without acknowledging the right/truth of the representative God sent believing in the concept of 'only One God' does no good.
2, like the brothers above mentioned, there're many things that nullify the concept of Tawheed like limiting Allah and giving Him shape, gender, attributing a physical throne to Him, the most misunderstood thing in salafism/wahabbis and thier alike is the term Arsh (throne). they took this word as a physical throne, they say Allah astagfirullah is sitting on a throne, some ppl r so lost like this. Allah doesn't sit on a throne, what throne is as big as its Allah to be able to hold Him astagfirullah. according to our Imams Arsh in the quran is the authority of Allah it is not a throne. other things that nullify tawheed is obeying other than Allah, sharing others with His laws is also very dangerous. like obeying others when Allah says something else bcos Allah created man kind for nothing but to worship Him. worship isnt only praying and doing other rituals but obeying all other His commands and following His prophet also. the prophet appointed imam Ali as his successor and showed the people which way to go after him. but people chosed a different way and disobeyed Him which equals disobeying God Himself. so obeying and following the foot steps of those who disobeyed Allah is equals as taking them gods beside Allah Himself astagfirullah.

what amuses me most is hearing the sunni/wahabbis being obsessed with the term bidha and shirk. constantly repeating the word tawheed and how they r the only ppl of it not knowing their understanding of tawheed itself is a corrupted understanding.

the other group (shia mughaleen) started giving the holy humans some descriptions which are exsclusive to god only and hence associated those creatures with him (ishrak)
these people walked in the same steps as the christians (the christians of my nation)
they say the prophet knows all the knwoeldge of the unseen and that he is all hearing and all seeing and has full control over every atom of the creation.
they belive in what is called " alwylayah al takweenyah" which implies Tafweedh a concept clearly rejected by imam jafar alsadiq in his famous say:

can you name me any 12er scholars who promote such ideas? ive never came across Ulama who say such things. the prophet and the holy imams do have some knowledge of the unseen and can hear us too, but it is only Allah who is all hearing and have the knowledge of everything. Allah gave certain knowledge to his prophets and their successors and their sincere followers but no1 can say their knowledge is that of equal to Allah's knowledge. Allah's knowledge is above all and can not be compared to anyone no matter how great they are. numerous verses in the quran clearly shows that some prophets and imams had the knowledge of the unseen and were able to do miracles but all that was due to the permission Allah gave them nothing of their own power and they did expressed this themselves, they never claimed to have anything but what God Himself gave them.

#9 alimohamad40

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 02:20 AM

^^
you can read the book of " alawalim" explaining hadeeth alkisa

you can read the "40 hadeeths for rohullah al khoomainy"

you can read the books of " ni3matullah al jazaeri" he has one book thats very extreme i forgot the name of it but its ont a very big one

Also you can read the books of the current shirazis

also lectures of Fadhel almaliky

alfuhaid

but if you want to search in poems and nasheeds yuo can refer to mulla basim al karbalaie and you will see wonders

also mahdi sahwan , walid almazidi

Edited by alimohamad40, 07 January 2012 - 02:22 AM.


#10 Ismahan007

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:06 AM

^^
you can read the book of " alawalim" explaining hadeeth alkisa

you can read the "40 hadeeths for rohullah al khoomainy"

you can read the books of " ni3matullah al jazaeri" he has one book thats very extreme i forgot the name of it but its ont a very big one

Also you can read the books of the current shirazis

also lectures of Fadhel almaliky

alfuhaid

but if you want to search in poems and nasheeds yuo can refer to mulla basim al karbalaie and you will see wonders

also mahdi sahwan , walid almazidi

Thanks for the reply. to be honest, am not familiar with most of the names you mentioned but inshallah i will try to look at them. Bassim karbalai, yes i sometimes listen to him but didnt pay close attention for his wording, i might start doing that and see exactly wat he means by what he's trying to deliver. but bottom line we all know the difference between God and His created beings, no human with his right state of mind wud ever try to compare Allah with his creation.

#11 Al-Khamis

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:54 AM

Ok folks, it seems some people are having a hard time understanding simple english. Let me try rephrase the question (in red):

Just like we have things that nullify prayers, wudhu, saum and other ibadah, we have things that nullify one's Islam too. When a Christian wants to concert we tell him to say the Shahadah (La ilaaha illa Allah Muhammad Rasulullah) but after uttering the Shahadah he says that he still believe Jesus (as) is the son of God. So according to Shia faith, does his Shahadah stand? If not, then what are the essentials of the word "La ilaaha illa Allah" according to Shia faith?

Again folks, I'm not looking to read a novel or someone's philosophy, just briefly and specific could one please give me a set or list of beliefs that nullify, negate or invalidate one's Tawheed (La ilaaha illa Allah) according to Shia faith.


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#12 Ameen

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 02:37 PM

Assalamu aleykum

Al-Hamdulillahi Rabbil Aalamin, and may peace and blessing be with the Messenger, his noble family and his companions

Dear Shia members here, after spending years reasearching on Shia faith I still haven't been able to grasp what Tawheed really means to Shiites. No Shia will disagree with me that this is the most important article in Islam. All our deeds depend on it and surely one can not claim Tawheed and practise shirk at the same time. One is either a Muslim or a Mushrik.
While some topics discussed here between Ahlul Sunnah and Shia may be important, none more than the topic of Tawheed. It is Tawheed that defines who is a Muslim and who isn't.

I have sent questions on Tawheed to several Shia Scholars and I'm sorry to say that none of them gave me the answers I was looking for. Some I believe just ignored me all together. It is my hope I won't suffer the same fate here.

I wish to have a knowledgeble shia here explain to me in brief and very specific on this issue.

So these are my questions folks:

-Are there any conditions, requirements or prerequisites that come with the word "La ilaaha illa Allah" in Shia faith?

To put in another way:

-Are there any set of beliefs or deeds that nullify the word "La ilaaha illa Allah" in Shia faith?

Again please be very brief and to the point with your own explaination (not interested in copy/pasting or links)....And please only knowledgeble shias as I do not have time to waste.



Al-Khamis


Wa'aleykumssalaam. What do you mean by NULLIFY??? Give me an example!

#13 Ismahan007

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 02:49 PM

Wa'aleykumssalaam. What do you mean by NULLIFY??? Give me an example!

nullify=invalidate or makes things void
for example if i say Allah has hands astagfirullah then believing this will invalidate my tawheed.
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#14 power

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 02:56 PM

I think he is implying that in shiasm concept of Tawheed there is element of shirk going on, as the Shia give greater emphasis to the Imam (as) than to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì however I may be wrong

#15 alimohamad40

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:13 PM

what nullifies tawheed is
shirk association in the siffat (attributes of god) , in love, in worship , in lordship (polythism)

for example if some one gives god a limited attribute like the example of the hadeeth of abuy hurayrah in bukhari where he says " we will see god just like we can see the moon in a good night" (tashbeeh "likening " and tajseem "shaping" " tashkeel" forming")

or another hadeeth in b ukhari which says " hell says give me more, then the lord puts his foot in hell and hell says enough enough" (tab3eeth " partitioning")

this stuff that the wahabies (salafies) and hanbalies specially from the folwoers of ibn taymyah belive actually nullifies tawheed and is shirk

as well as the mughaleen who give the humans some attributes which are exculsive to god

another example of the shirk of the salfi (wahabi) hanbali " ibn taymyah folowers " is the fact that ibn taymyah corrects the folowing hadeeths:
1) that god has weight and when the people comitt sins he gets angry and his wieght increases to a level where the throne starts squeeking and the carriers of the htrone feel ihs weight so they start doing tasbeeh until god calms down and gets light again

2) that god comes down on the friday in the form of a young hairless man with small curley hair and a green clothing


ibn taymyah also says that god is a shape which is unlike other shapes

and god forms just like the idea of jesus christ which says god forms in the shape of jesus christ the hanbalies the wahabies and salafies of the hanbalies who folow ibn taymyah


say that god shaped and formed in the form of that young hairless man with small curley hair and a green clothing

so you have christians limiting god and doing tashbeeh and tajseem that he formed in the shape of jesus

and you have the salafiesd and wahabies of the hanbalies doing the same tajseem and tashbeeh and saying god formed in the shape of that hairless young guy

you have christians saying jesus has soe of the attributes of god and is omre than ahuman and you have extreme shias who say the imams are more than humans and have some of the unique attributes of god like the example of then controlling all the atoms of the universe and knowing all the past and present and teh secrets of all creation and juding people in judgement day

and that salvation and calls should be directed at them and god takes a holiday
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#16 Al-Khamis

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:30 AM

Wa'aleykumssalaam. What do you mean by NULLIFY??? Give me an example!


Ameen, have you read the post before yours? I gave an example and you still asking for one.

And if you don't perceive the meaning of the word "nullify" I gave other words which I think are similar.


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#17 MCDialog

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:32 PM

Tawheed clearly contradicts the concept of Wilayah Takwiniyah , to say that Shia believe in Tawheed is utter nonsense ...

#18 Murtada

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 04:02 AM

^That's why Shi'as don't believe in Wilayah takwiniyah...
Ascribing hands, fingers, feet and a butt to Allah clearly contradict Tawheed. To say that Sunnis believe in Tawheed is utter nonsense. Nice logic.
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#19 MCDialog

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 03:33 PM

^That's why Shi'as don't believe in Wilayah takwiniyah...
Ascribing hands, fingers, feet and a butt to Allah clearly contradict Tawheed. To say that Sunnis believe in Tawheed is utter nonsense. Nice logic.


[Note from Mod: No need to insult] Shia do believe in Wilyaha Takwiniyah , its called Tafweed

Edited by Replicant, 17 January 2012 - 07:31 PM.


#20 Rasul

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 01:43 PM

Sunnis believe that Allah has a Book and he writes with his hands!

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "When Allah created the Creation, He wrote in His Book--and He wrote (that) about Himself, and it is placed with Him on the Throne--'Verily My Mercy overcomes My Anger.'"

Sunni references;
Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 93, Number 501:

#21 Murtada

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 02:14 PM

^That's why Shi'as don't believe in Wilayah takwiniyah...


I should probably emphasize here that I meant Shi'as follow the middle path.

#22 Auqab

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 12:05 AM

what are the essentials of the word "La ilaaha illa Allah" according to Shia faith?
Al-Khamis


Getting the essence of "La ilaaha ill Allah" from the fallibles will make your "La ilaaha ill Allah" void. Just like how your fasts during Ramadan are void.

#23 wikipedia

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:18 AM

@alimohammad40

Wasn't Ayatollah Khomeni who said that all atoms humble before the Imams ? And according to the following explanation, there is nothing wrong with that:

glad to know that khomeini was nusairi.

#24 Ismahan007

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 07:14 PM

glad to know that khomeini was nusairi.

what is nusairi?

#25 wikipedia

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:52 AM

what is nusairi?

nusairi=ghali = a person who do ghulu(exaggeration ) in the praise of their imams beyond the boundries of shirk.



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