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Doha Poll: 55% Of Syrians Want Assad To Stay!

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Ouccccccccch, this will break Justice4none's heart into tiny pieces!

A poll done by the Doha debates [a Qatari foundation which has constantly undermined the Syrian govt- thus hardly a pro Assad institute], shows in its latest poll that 55% of Syrians want Assad to stay in power.

According to the latest opinion poll commissioned by The Doha Debates, Syrians are more supportive of their president with 55% not wanting him to resign.

http://www.thedohade...dex.asp?n=14312

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^ Justice4none now

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^ Satyaban now

Edited by shiasoldier786

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A poll done by the Doha debates [a Qatari foundation which has constantly undermined the Syrian govt- thus hardly a pro Assad institute],

You can say that again.

The report says:

Although the majority of Arabs believe Syria’s President Basher al-Assad should resign in the wake of the regime’s brutal treatment of protesters, fewer Syrians are supportive of an immediate leadership change.

You almost have to read it twice to realise the pro-Assad nature of the result.

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is the poll taken on those people that attend the debate only???

or is it a poll of the Syrians ?

has world public opinion or democracy now done a poll as well?

they did polls on the 2009 Iran elections which showed ahmadinejad winning by similar percentage that he actually got.

but is this poll average syrians? how big is the sample ?

is it representative?

if its just a poll on those attendants of the debate then its meaningless

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if its just a poll on those attendants of the debate then its meaningless

Yes, everything is meaningless for you unless it favors Western domination or Takfiri puppets. It must be a Zionists' source or their products like Al-Arabiya or Al-Jazeera to receive approvals.

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ShiaSoldier786 (refuses to be called MuslimSoldier786)...and he really isn't a soldier, just a nerd sitting with his laptop in the West.

Haha, a poll of 1000 people? That's all you have got? What countries were these Syrians in that were sampled?

You also failed to mention the main reason for those sampled for supporting the regime - fear - they still hate the regime.

By the way, thanks for supporting the Syrian cause by posting this article titled "Arabs want Syria's President Assad to go - opinion poll", with up to 91% of Arabs supporting the downfall of the regime.

Meanwhile, the Iranian regime and Hezbollah continue to support the slaughter of Syrian Muslims.

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Meanwhile, the Iranian regime and Hezbollah continue to support the slaughter of Syrian Muslims.

You wrote the exact same thing in your other post. In the interest of efficiency, you should put it in your signature and answering machine. Then you'd have some time to think before punching your keyboard.

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You wrote the exact same thing in your other post. In the interest of efficiency, you should put it in your signature and answering machine. Then you'd have some time to think before punching your keyboard.

Actually, read it again. It was not the exact same thing.

I wouldn't have to say this if Ali Khameini and Hassan Nasrallah publicly denounce the Syrian regime, rather than discredit the thousands of civilian martyrs as being part of some Zionist conspiracy. Who would have thought an Islamic Republic and Islamic Resistance would be allied with secular Baathists?

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Guest Mushu   
Guest Mushu

Actually, read it again. It was not the exact same thing.

I wouldn't have to say this if Ali Khameini and Hassan Nasrallah publicly denounce the Syrian regime, rather than discredit the thousands of civilian martyrs as being part of some Zionist conspiracy. Who would have thought an Islamic Republic and Islamic Resistance would be allied with secular Baathists?

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Mushu, you should have researched before posting a Mufti Hassoun video. This fraud Hassoun, part of the Syrian regime's establishment, has made blasphemous statements against the Prophet(saw) in 2010. Are you sure you want to post his videos?

On Tuesday January 19, 2010, the Mufti of Syria made some very troubling remarks about the Prophet of Islam in front of an American delegation lead by the Orthodox Rabbi Marc Gopin. The Mufti's remarks, which were published in the Jerusalem Post and aired on Israeli Army Radio, included: “If the Prophet Muhammad had asked me to deem Christians or Jews heretics, I would have deemed Muhammad himself a heretic...If Muhammad had commanded us to kill people, I would have told him he was not a Prophet...”

http://www.facebook....934&topic=12744

Hassoun does not represent the Syrian Muslims. He has already been denounced by other Syrian Shaykhs like al-Yacoubi. Infact, al-Yacoubi was sacked as Imam because he denounced the Mufti's blasphemy: This is the Syrian regime that you want to support?

Shaykh Al-Yaqoubi said: "Hassoun does not represent the Syrian Clerics nor does he have a mandate from the Syrian people." He added, "the Mufti has no right to threaten anyone on behalf of the Syrian people. These outrageous threats are an indication of his disrespect of the millions of Muslims living in Europe and the USA. We strongly denounce these empty threats which would only distort the image of Islam and Muslims around the world. They would only lead to more paranoia of Islam and discrimination against Muslims. It is strange that he issues such threats to support the regime, while he was silent against Israel, even when Syria was attacked by Israeli warplanes. Instead, the Mufti sent a curse against Palestinian martyrs and condemned them, when he spoke at the

European Parliament."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mx6rit94Kk

Edited by Justice4all

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Mushu, you should have researched before posting a Mufti Hassoun video. This fraud Hassoun, part of the Syrian regime's establishment, has made blasphemous statements against the Prophet(saw) in 2010. Are you sure you want to post his videos?

On Tuesday January 19, 2010, the Mufti of Syria made some very troubling remarks about the Prophet of Islam in front of an American delegation lead by the Orthodox Rabbi Marc Gopin. The Mufti's remarks, which were published in the Jerusalem Post and aired on Israeli Army Radio, included: “If the Prophet Muhammad had asked me to deem Christians or Jews heretics, I would have deemed Muhammad himself a heretic...If Muhammad had commanded us to kill people, I would have told him he was not a Prophet...”

http://www.facebook....934&topic=12744

Hassoun does not represent the Syrian Muslims. He has already been denounced by other Syrian Shaykhs like al-Yacoubi. Infact, al-Yacoubi was sacked as Imam because he denounced the Mufti's blasphemy: This is the Syrian regime that you want to support?

Shaykh Al-Yaqoubi said: "Hassoun does not represent the Syrian Clerics nor does he have a mandate from the Syrian people." He added, "the Mufti has no right to threaten anyone on behalf of the Syrian people. These outrageous threats are an indication of his disrespect of the millions of Muslims living in Europe and the USA. We strongly denounce these empty threats which would only distort the image of Islam and Muslims around the world. They would only lead to more paranoia of Islam and discrimination against Muslims. It is strange that he issues such threats to support the regime, while he was silent against Israel, even when Syria was attacked by Israeli warplanes. Instead, the Mufti sent a curse against Palestinian martyrs and condemned them, when he spoke at the

European Parliament."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mx6rit94Kk

where is the blasphemy in the first statement ?

of course if the prophet Mohamad denounced Jesus we had to denounce him. if Jesus denounced muses people had to denounce him... this is mentioned in the quraan that no human has the right to denounce the previous prophets....

its similar to the say of the prophet: if Fatima stole i would cut her hand

it doesn't mean fatima will steal, likewise this doesnt mean prophet mohamad will denounce Jesus but this is a hypothetical assumption to prove that Islam and Christianity and Judaism are in reality one religion in essence

while i maintain the condemnation of crimes against civilian protesters the remarks of Burhan ghaleeon really killed any credibility that the opposition council had.

did you hear what burhan ghalyoon said? he promised to choke the resistance as the first priority after the fall of the asad... he said he will cut ties with iran and hamas and hizbullah but he wasn't daring enough to say that he will open a zionist embassy

OP

so the sample is from the arab world ? so how does that represent syrians? We want some poll of the syrians

most importantly Damascus, allepo and hums I mean the biggest cities where the majority of the people are,,

Nooh

stop being fanatic man ,,, when you support a group you dont go blind , i have supported the IR for years

anti shah

anti USA

Iraq war

Nuclear issue

Embargo

even when Iraqis are complaining why IR helped the rebels in iraq i think they are not justified because iran and syria have all the right to hit the invaders when they are in their own backyards and could potentially attack them at anytime.

But I am not gonna be blind and even if IR committed blasphemy or hypocrisy i just justify anything and everything there are some things called Islamic principals which come before everything..

you gona go on about the USA and GULF and Saudi hypocrisy,,, I couldn't agree more but the hypocrisy of others does not justify our own.

as much as i wanted the arab spring to start in the gulf but it didnt because the arab spring is a hunger movement its not really a pure principals movement...

I mean our wish is the arab spring is a revolt against the world injustice towards islam and Palestine but its not

if it was for palestine and Islam they would have said : okay syria is a dictatorship but so are the other 21 countries but syria has no zionist embassy so lets leave it last and start with the zionist slaves first.

But people didnt and they rose up in syria and america and the zionists started fueling it more but this doesnt make the peoples demands illegitimate, their demands are legitimate and we have no choice but to support their legitimate demands and condemns anyone who kills them for demanding their right as the prophet said

Whoever was killed while asking for his right is a martyr.

ãä ãÇÊ Ïæä ÍÞå Ýåæ ÔåíÏ

Edited by alimohamad40

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Mushu, you should have researched before posting a Mufti Hassoun video. This fraud Hassoun, part of the Syrian regime's establishment, has made blasphemous statements against the Prophet(saw) in 2010. Are you sure you want to post his videos?

On Tuesday January 19, 2010, the Mufti of Syria made some very troubling remarks about the Prophet of Islam in front of an American delegation lead by the Orthodox Rabbi Marc Gopin. The Mufti's remarks, which were published in the Jerusalem Post and aired on Israeli Army Radio, included: “If the Prophet Muhammad had asked me to deem Christians or Jews heretics, I would have deemed Muhammad himself a heretic...If Muhammad had commanded us to kill people, I would have told him he was not a Prophet...”

http://www.facebook....934&topic=12744

Hassoun does not represent the Syrian Muslims. He has already been denounced by other Syrian Shaykhs like al-Yacoubi. Infact, al-Yacoubi was sacked as Imam because he denounced the Mufti's blasphemy: This is the Syrian regime that you want to support?

Shaykh Al-Yaqoubi said: "Hassoun does not represent the Syrian Clerics nor does he have a mandate from the Syrian people." He added, "the Mufti has no right to threaten anyone on behalf of the Syrian people. These outrageous threats are an indication of his disrespect of the millions of Muslims living in Europe and the USA. We strongly denounce these empty threats which would only distort the image of Islam and Muslims around the world. They would only lead to more paranoia of Islam and discrimination against Muslims. It is strange that he issues such threats to support the regime, while he was silent against Israel, even when Syria was attacked by Israeli warplanes. Instead, the Mufti sent a curse against Palestinian martyrs and condemned them, when he spoke at the

European Parliament."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mx6rit94Kk

The Mufti gets propagated against because he speaks the truth..

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Guest EndlessEndeavor   
Guest EndlessEndeavor

This poll is not really that credible considering its ridiculously small number of participants.

Why are we as Shia completely neglecting the fact that innocent people are also being killed by this Baathi Government?

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Guest

ShiaSoldier786 (refuses to be called MuslimSoldier786)...and he really isn't a soldier, just a nerd sitting with his laptop in the West.

LOL. Desparate, much?

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55%? Pheh, you think that's impressive? Look at what another Ba`athist got in 2002:

Saddam 'wins 100% of vote'

Iraqi officials say President Saddam Hussein has won 100% backing in a referendum on whether he should rule for another seven years.

There were 11,445,638 eligible voters - and every one of them voted for the president, according to Izzat Ibrahim, Vice-Chairman of Iraq's Revolutionary Command Council.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/2331951.stm

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55%? Pheh, you think that's impressive? Look at what another Ba`athist got in 2002:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/2331951.stm

The poll was conducted in Doha, not Syria. So, your comparison and statement is invalid!

Lets see who is going to vote for Takfiri Terrorist Groups in Homs? Except you, alimohammad40 and justiceforall!

3 votes out of 23 million Syrians? Oh wait you 3 are not even Syrians :- D

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The poll was conducted in Doha, not Syria. So, your comparison and statement is invalid!

Not to mention it's a member of the Qatar Foundation (a very wealthy government sponsored foundation (though it's an 'ngo', that even sponsors teams like Barcelona and chaired by the princes own wife i believe), and Qatar has been playing *the* leading role in trying to topple Assad.

'Most' of the common folk in the M.E. aren't that stupid, they know the dirty games their leaders like the Qatar Amir are playing.

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Heres another slap in the face of those wanting regime change in Syria.

Remember, a couple weeks back, the west was moaning about Syria not allowing Arab league observers into the county. Now that the observers are there, and are pretty much saying that things are mostly normal, the western media is going crazy about how biased these observers (appointed by the Arab league) are towards Syria!

http://www.thestar.c...ervers-in-syria

Now even the Qatari PM is saying how 'inexperienced' these observers are.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-04/qatar-prime-minister-says-arab-league-monitors-made-mistakes.html

LOL @ the desperation

Edited by shiasoldier786

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Guest EndlessEndeavor   
Guest EndlessEndeavor

Cummon, I hope you know that a poll of 1000 people would have a margin of error of just 3%.

Lol I really really hope you are not being serious.

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I just saw that on Al Jazeera today lol. Some protesters and Arab leaders are demanding MORE observers LOL (3000 additional) to make sure they're results are "valid".

ShiaSoldier786 (refuses to be called MuslimSoldier786)...and he really isn't a soldier, just a nerd sitting with his laptop in the West.

Haha, a poll of 1000 people? That's all you have got? What countries were these Syrians in that were sampled?

You also failed to mention the main reason for those sampled for supporting the regime - fear - they still hate the regime.

By the way, thanks for supporting the Syrian cause by posting this article titled "Arabs want Syria's President Assad to go - opinion poll", with up to 91% of Arabs supporting the downfall of the regime.

Meanwhile, the Iranian regime and Hezbollah continue to support the slaughter of Syrian Muslims.

So they have fear, even though they're in Qatar >_>.

Can you listen to yourself before you speak?

Stop saying hearsay and use facts to back your claims.

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one thousand is good number as a sample

there is no poll that goes around asking everyone... that would be a referendum.....

but the most important thing is to know how they chose those syrians??

For example if i go to the Syrian refugees in turkey and syria and pick the thousand from them it will give a very bias result.

the proper way to poll the syrians is to divide them into all the divisions which have nothing to do with the current revolt for example

20% business class , 40% poor , 20% farmers then try to get the same proportion from each class in a random manner and in a geographically spread manner

using phone interviews will not be good either because it will not reflect the opinion of the villages and those who have no phones

if its not anonymous it also effects the result because people might have fears and making it anonymous people can be honnest.

but this poll your saygin its done outside syria? but we need to know the 1000 people are they syrians? what type of syrians and how were they picked randomly? you cant use syrians in other countries exclusively....

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By the way, thanks for supporting the Syrian cause by posting this article titled "Arabs want Syria's President Assad to go - opinion poll", with up to 91% of Arabs supporting the downfall of the regime.

Bashar Al Assad is accountable to the Syrian people, not to a bunch of Arabs living under US backed dictatorships that want to see him go.

Edited by shiasoldier786

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one thousand is good number as a sample

there is no poll that goes around asking everyone... that would be a referendum.....

but the most important thing is to know how they chose those syrians??

For example if i go to the Syrian refugees in turkey and syria and pick the thousand from them it will give a very bias result.

the proper way to poll the syrians is to divide them into all the divisions which have nothing to do with the current revolt for example

20% business class , 40% poor , 20% farmers then try to get the same proportion from each class in a random manner and in a geographically spread manner

using phone interviews will not be good either because it will not reflect the opinion of the villages and those who have no phones

if its not anonymous it also effects the result because people might have fears and making it anonymous people can be honnest.

but this poll your saygin its done outside syria? but we need to know the 1000 people are they syrians? what type of syrians and how were they picked randomly? you cant use syrians in other countries exclusively....

Interesting questions bro. The way the article is worded, seems to imply that the poll was done in Syria. If it was just a poll of Syrians living outside Syria [thats a major factor that would have skewed the results], so they would have mentioned it at least.

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If i may add, if 1000 is such a small number, and not indicative of a true result, then why companies pay billions of dollars in advertising every year in the US upon Neilson ratings that uses 5000 households to determine the ratings on a tv audiance of up to 99 million in the US.

This research is worth billions of dollars. Advertisers pay to air their commercials on TV programs using rates that are based on Nielsen's data.

This article is fairly intresting, for those that doubt.

In the U.S., the term "TV ratings" immediately makes people think of "Nielsen" because Nielsen Media Research has become the de facto national measurement service for the television industry in the United States and Canada. Nielson measures the number of people watching television shows and makes its data available to the television and cable networks, advertisers and the media.

Nielsen uses a technique called statistical sampling to rate the shows -- the same technique that pollsters use to predict the outcome of elections. Nielsen creates a "sample audience" and then counts how many in that audience view each program. Nielsen then extrapolates from the sample and estimates the number of viewers in the entire population watching the show. That's a simple way of explaining what is a complicated, extensive process. Nielsen relies mainly on information collected from TV set meters that it installs, and then combines this information with huge databases of the programs that appear on each TV station and cable channel.

To find out who is watching TV and what they are watching, the company gets around 5,000 households to agree to be a part of the representative sample for the national ratings estimates. Nielsen's statistics show that 99 million households have TVs in the United States, so Nielsen's sample is not very large. The key, therefore, is to be sure the sample is representative. Then TVs, homes, programs, and people are measured in a variety of ways.

To find out what people are watching, meters installed in the selected sample of homes track when TV sets are on and what channels they are tuned to. A "black box," which is just a computer and modem, gathers and sends all this information to the company's central computer every night. Then by monitoring what is on TV at any given time, the company is able to keep track of how many people watch which program.

Small boxes, placed near the TV sets of those in the national sample, measure who is watching by giving each member of the household a button to turn on and off to show when he or she begins and ends viewing. This information is also collected each night.

The national TV ratings largely rely on these meters. To ensure reasonably accurate results, the company uses audits and quality checks and regularly compares the ratings it gets from different samples and measurement methods.

Participants in Nielsen's national sample are randomly selected. Every U.S. household with a TV theoretically has a chance to be a part of the sample. The sample is also compared to the general population, and at times Nielsen calls thousands of households to see if their TV sets are on and who is watching.

This research is worth billions of dollars. Advertisers pay to air their commercials on TV programs using rates that are based on Nielsen's data. Programmers also use Nielsen's data to decide which shows to keep and which to cancel. A show that has several million viewers may seem popular to us, but a network may need millions more watching that program to make it a financial success. That's why some shows with a loyal following still get canceled.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question433.htm

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where is the blasphemy in the first statement ?

of course if the prophet Mohamad denounced Jesus we had to denounce him. if Jesus denounced muses people had to denounce him... this is mentioned in the quraan that no human has the right to denounce the previous prophets....

its similar to the say of the prophet: if Fatima stole i would cut her hand

it doesn't mean fatima will steal, likewise this doesnt mean prophet mohamad will denounce Jesus but this is a hypothetical assumption to prove that Islam and Christianity and Judaism are in reality one religion in essence

Bro, Hassoun didn't say this statement in front of Muslims. He said these hypothetical statements in front of Jews and Christians in Europe. Would a Jew say something hypothetically evil about Moses(as) in front of Muslims? Would a Christian say something hypothetically evil about Jesus(as) in front of Muslims? Never.

The fact of the matter is this Hassoun clown is a people pleaser. Whatever situation he is in, he attempts to please his hosts.

while i maintain the condemnation of crimes against civilian protesters the remarks of Burhan ghaleeon really killed any credibility that the opposition council had.

did you hear what burhan ghalyoon said? he promised to choke the resistance as the first priority after the fall of the asad... he said he will cut ties with iran and hamas and hizbullah but he wasn't daring enough to say that he will open a zionist embassy

Burhan is not going to be running Syria when the regime falls, he is just trying to get world support. If you talk to any Syrian, they have a long hatred of Israel, so supporting the Palestinian resistance will not change. On top of that, the new government will most likely be Islamist, so even more likely to be aggressive against Israel, unlike the coward Assad regime who could not do anything when Israel bombed their supposed nuclear plant. Actually, Israel is even more worried about the new Islamists than they were with Bashar. Israelis knew Assad was a wimp who didn't cause trouble from Syrian land.

As far as cutting ties with Iran and Hezbollah. Yes, this will happen. Go talk to any Syrian Muslim right now - they absolutely hate the Iranian regime and Hezbollah. Both the Iranian regime and Hezbollah publicly support the Syrian regime, so Syrians will not forget this. Just in the last day, the Syrian chief auditor of the Central Office of Financial Control fled to Egypt and has said the Syrian regime is bankrupt, but the Iranian and Iraqi regimes are funding them. They don't give a damn about the 1000's of dead civilian Syrian Muslims.

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    • Why not give away Afghanistan to Pakistan and just be done with it? Don't the majority of Afghans live in Pakistans tribal areas and cities anyways? There is more Afghans in Pakistan than there is in Afghanistan itself so yeah again whats the difference? Obviously India would not like this and would be upset but do they have a border with Afghanistan? Whats their agenda in this whole conflict?  Afghanistan is much more closer to Pakistan and Iran than India from my knowledge.   
    • Shukriya bro See maybe I have a chance to be a geek in a Washington think tank lol Btw Herat can go to Iran too it's traditionally Persian  This way hazara will be a neutral buffer state  But India might not like this as it makes Pakistan bigger  Punjabi and muhajir might not like a pashtun dominated Pakistan   
    • 3.87. Urwa b. Yahya al-Nakhkhas al-Dihqan https://sites.google.com/site/mujamalahadith/vol1/book-of-narrators/urwa-b-yahya-al-nakhkhas-al-dihqan   [-/1] رجال الكشي: حكى بعض الثقات بنيسابور أنه خرج لإسحاق بن اسماعيل من أبي محمد عليه السّلام توقيع: يا اسحاق بن اسماعيل سترنا اللّه و اياك بستره ... فإذا وردت بغداد فاقرأه على الدهقان وكيلنا و ثقتنا و الذي يقبض من موالينا ... [1/-] Rijal al-Kashshi: One of the trustworthy narrators in Naysabur reported that a Tawqi [signed rescript] came out addressed to Ishaq b. Ismail from Abi Muhammad عليه السلام saying: O Ishaq b. Ismail, may Allah protect both you and us with His protection … so when you reach Baghdad then read it [this Tawqi] to al-Dihqan, our Wakil [agent], our Thiqa [trustworthy one], and the one who collects from our followers [the dues] … NOTES: Urwa b. Yahya al-Nakhkhas (the slave merchant) was at one time a trusted Wakil of al-Askari in Baghdad as can be confirmed from the above. But he subsequently sold his religion for the petty price of the world and betrayed the Imam. al-Tusi says in his entry on him: عروة النخاس الدهقان، ملعون غال Urwa al-Nakhkhas al-Dihqan - an accursed Ghali al-Kashshi narrates the following reports which confirm his fall from favour: - حدثني محمد بن قولويه الجمال، عن محمد بن موسى الهمداني: أن عروة بن يحيى البغدادي المعروف بالدهقان لعنه الله و كان يكذب على أبي الحسن علي بن محمد بن الرضا عليهم السلام و على أبي محمد الحسن بن علي عليهما السلام بعده، و كان يقطع أمواله لنفسه دونه و يكذب عليه، حتى لعنه أبو محمد عليه السلام و أمر شيعته بلعنة، و الدعاء عليه لقطع الأموال، لعنه الله Muhammad b. Qulawayh the cameleer - Muhammad b. Musa al-Hamdani: Urwa b. Yahya al-Baghdadi, famously known as al-Dihqan - may Allah curse him, used to lie about Abi al-Hasan Ali b. Muhammad b. al-Ridha عليهم السلام and about Abi Muhammad al-Hasan b. Ali عليهما السلام after him. He used to keep a portion of his (the Imam’s) wealth (collected dues) for himself and lie about that. This led Abu Muhammad عليه السلام to curse him and to order his Shia to curse him and supplicate against him for withholding (and keeping to himself) the collected amount - may Allah curse him. قال علي بن سلمان بن رشيد العطار البغدادي كان يلعنه أبو محمد عليه السلام و ذلك أنه كانت لأبي محمد عليه السلام خزانة، و كان يليها أبو علي بن راشد رضي الله عنه، فسلمت إلى عروة، فأخذ منها لنفسه ثم أحرق باقي ما فيها، يغايظ بذلك أبا محمد عليه السلام فلعنه و بري‏ء منه و دعا عليه، فما أمهل يومه ذلك و ليلته حتى قبضه الله إلى النار، فقال عليه السلام: جلست لربي ليلتي هذه كذا و كذا جلسة فما انفجر عمود الصبح و لا انطفى ذلك النار حتى قتل الله عدوه لعنه الله Ali b. Sulayman b. Rashid al-Baghdadi the perfumer said: Abu Muhammad عليه السلام used to curse him. That was because Abi Muhammad عليه السلام had a saved-up amount (of collections) which used to be overseen by Abu Ali b. Rashid - may Allah be pleased with him. This was handed to Urwa (fell in his hands for safe-keeping), so he took from it for himself and then destroyed (burnt) the rest of it, seeking to anger Aba Muhammad عليه السلام thereby. Because of this he [the Imam] cursed him, disassociated from him, and supplicated against him. He [Urwa] was not given respite for even a single day or night before Allah seized him unto the fire. He عليه السلام said: I sat in vigil to my Lord this night of mine - such and such a seating (of worship i.e. describing it), so the light of day did not break nor did that fire (of lamp burnt at night) go out (extinguish) except that Allah had already killed his enemy - may Allah curse him. The following is also found in a letter sent by al-Askari about Ahmad b. Hilal: و قد علمتم ما كان من أمر الدهقان عليه لعنة الله و خدمته و طول صحبته، فأبدله الله بالإيمان كفرا حين فعل ما فعل، فعاجله الله بالنقمة ولم يمهله، و الحمد لله لا شريك له، و صلى الله على محمد و آله و سلم … and you have known what the status of al-Dihqan was - may Allah curse him, his service, and the long period of his companionship, but then Allah transformed his belief into disbelief, when he committed what he committed, so Allah hastened in retribution to him and did not grant him any respite. All praise is due to Allah who has no partner, and may Allah send blessings on Muhammad and his family. What this shows is that being a Wakil of the Imam does not mean that one is Thiqa forever and cannot change into a worse state. We ask Allah to secure us from having high stations but ending in disgrace.
    • They are stems off the same roots. Im quite sure both fund eachother too. May the reappesrance of our saviour be hastened to bring peace in our holy lands and the rest of the world
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