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Are Shia Kafir?

The status of Shias!

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#1 Ameen

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 04:02 PM

Salaamo-Aleykum dear brothers and sisters. Those people who start with the headline, ARE SHIA KAFIR? or believe that the Shias are out of the fold of Islam need to take a look at the following information:


Hadith Praising the Shias of 'Ali (A.S.)


Hadith in which the Prophet (pbuh) praised Ali (as) and his Shia can be found in many classical Ahle Sunnah texts, and have even been recorded by scholars like Ibn Hajar al Makki in their books written against the Shia. For the sake of brevity I will cite just a handful of traditions to prove my point.


It is in praise of the Shia of Ali (as) that Allah sent down the following revelation:

"Those who believe and do righteous deeds are the best of the creatures. Their reward from their Lord shall be everlasting gardens, below which flow rivers, they will abide there forever. Well pleased is God with them and they are well pleased with Him" (Qur'an 98:7)".

Muhammad bin Ali narrates in Tafsir ibne Jarir, Volume 33 page 146 (Cairo edition) that the Prophet (pbuh) said "The best of creations are you Ali and your Shias."


Jalaladin Suyuti, (849 - 911 AH) is one of the highest ranked Sunni scholars of all time. In his commentary of this verse, he records through 3 asnad (chains) of narrators, that the Prophet (pbuh) told his companions that the verse referred to Ali and his Shia:

"I swear by the one who controls my life that this man (Ali) and his Shia shall secure deliverance on the day of resurrection".

(Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 6 page 379 (Cairo edition)
The 3 Sahaba who narrated this hadith are (1) Ali (as) himself (2) Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari (ra) (3) Abdullah ibne Abbas (ra). The majority school acknowledges them as truthful narrators of hadith. Had this been in a Shia book, you would have deemed it a forgery, but it's presence in your book has really confused your scholars.


There are no hadith in which the Prophet (s) guaranteed paradise for a specific Sahaba and his followers, with the sole exception of Ali (as) and his Shia.

Other Sunni scholars have also recorded this hadith from Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari in their commentaries of the above verse.


[Tafsir Fatha ul bayan Volume 10 page 333 (Egypt edition) & Tafsir Fatha ul Qadir, Volume 5 page 477]
Hadhrath Abdullah ibne Abbas narrates "that when this verse descended the Prophet (s) said,

'Ali you and your Shia will be joyful on the Day of Judgement" (Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 6 page 379 (Cairo edition)

Ahmad ibn Hajr al Makki quotes from Imam Dar Qatany in his al Sawaiqh al Muhrriqa page 159 (Cairo edition) "O Abul Hasan, you and you Shi'a will attain paradise".


Ibn Hajr al Makki in his anti Shia book, Sawaiqh al Muhriqa, records this tradition from Imam Tabarani:

"O Ali four people will enter heaven first of all. Me, You, Hasan, and Hussain, your descendants will follow us and our wives will follow our descendants and our Shia will be to the left and right of us".


Hadhrath Ali narrates in Tafsir Durre Mansur, Volume 6 page 379 (Cairo edition) that Rasulullah (s) said to him:

"Have you not heard this verse "Their reward from their Lord shall be everlasting gardens, below which flow rivers, they will abide there forever"? This verse refers to you and your Shia, I promise you that I will meet you at the Fountain of Kawthur".

The classical Shafii scholar al Maghazli records a tradition from Anas bin Malik that he heard the Prophet (s) say:


"Seventy thousand people will go to heaven without questions, the Prophet then turned to Ali and said 'they will be from among your Shia and you will be their Imam"
Manaqib Ali al Murtaza, page 184 by al Maghazli al Shafii.



Those people who believe that Shias are Kafirs or who doubt about their status I want them to check out this information. Wassalaam.

Edited by Ameen, 20 December 2011 - 04:42 PM.

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#2 S.hassan

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 04:33 PM

Of course Shia are kuffar, we don't worship the Sahaba ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.
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#3 Waiting for HIM

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 04:52 PM

Shias are not kafir brother. We belive Allah as the one and only LORD and Muhammad (pbuh ) as his last prophet - NOT UMER (L).

And we do not take half of our religion from renegade women such as Aisha and liars and fornicators such as Yazeed and the rest of Banu Ummaya.

Nice try :)
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Posted 20 December 2011 - 05:17 PM

Shias are not kafir brother. We belive Allah as the one and only LORD and Muhammad (pbuh ) as his last prophet - NOT UMER (L).

And we do not take half of our religion from renegade women such as Aisha and liars and fornicators such as Yazeed and the rest of Banu Ummaya.

Nice try :)


Lol, did you read his post?


Salaamo-Aleykum dear brothers and sisters. Those people who start with the headline, ARE SHIA KAFIR? or believe that the Shias are out of the fold of Islam need to take a look at the following information:


Hadith Praising the Shias of 'Ali (A.S.)


Hadith in which the Prophet (pbuh) praised Ali (as) and his Shia can be found in many classical Ahle Sunnah texts, and have even been recorded by scholars like Ibn Hajar al Makki in their books written against the Shia. For the sake of brevity I will cite just a handful of traditions to prove my point.


It is in praise of the Shia of Ali (as) that Allah sent down the following revelation:

"Those who believe and do righteous deeds are the best of the creatures. Their reward from their Lord shall be everlasting gardens, below which flow rivers, they will abide there forever. Well pleased is God with them and they are well pleased with Him" (Qur'an 98:7)".

Muhammad bin Ali narrates in Tafsir ibne Jarir, Volume 33 page 146 (Cairo edition) that the Prophet (pbuh) said "The best of creations are you Ali and your Shias."



Jalaladin Suyuti, (849 - 911 AH) is one of the highest ranked Sunni scholars of all time. In his commentary of this verse, he records through 3 asnad (chains) of narrators, that the Prophet (pbuh) told his companions that the verse referred to Ali and his Shia:

"I swear by the one who controls my life that this man (Ali) and his Shia shall secure deliverance on the day of resurrection".


(Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 6 page 379 (Cairo edition)
The 3 Sahaba who narrated this hadith are (1) Ali (as) himself (2) Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari (ra) (3) Abdullah ibne Abbas (ra). The majority school acknowledges them as truthful narrators of hadith. Had this been in a Shia book, you would have deemed it a forgery, but it's presence in your book has really confused your scholars.


There are no hadith in which the Prophet (s) guaranteed paradise for a specific Sahaba and his followers, with the sole exception of Ali (as) and his Shia.

Other Sunni scholars have also recorded this hadith from Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari in their commentaries of the above verse.



[Tafsir Fatha ul bayan Volume 10 page 333 (Egypt edition) & Tafsir Fatha ul Qadir, Volume 5 page 477]
Hadhrath Abdullah ibne Abbas narrates "that when this verse descended the Prophet (s) said,

'Ali you and your Shia will be joyful on the Day of Judgement" (Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 6 page 379 (Cairo edition)


Ahmad ibn Hajr al Makki quotes from Imam Dar Qatany in his al Sawaiqh al Muhrriqa page 159 (Cairo edition) "O Abul Hasan, you and you Shi'a will attain paradise".


Ibn Hajr al Makki in his anti Shia book, Sawaiqh al Muhriqa, records this tradition from Imam Tabarani:


"O Ali four people will enter heaven first of all. Me, You, Hasan, and Hussain, your descendants will follow us and our wives will follow our descendants and our Shia will be to the left and right of us".


Hadhrath Ali narrates in Tafsir Durre Mansur, Volume 6 page 379 (Cairo edition) that Rasulullah (s) said to him:

"Have you not heard this verse "Their reward from their Lord shall be everlasting gardens, below which flow rivers, they will abide there forever"? This verse refers to you and your Shia, I promise you that I will meet you at the Fountain of Kawthur".

The classical Shafii scholar al Maghazli records a tradition from Anas bin Malik that he heard the Prophet (s) say:



"Seventy thousand people will go to heaven without questions, the Prophet then turned to Ali and said 'they will be from among your Shia and you will be their Imam"
Manaqib Ali al Murtaza, page 184 by al Maghazli al Shafii.




Those people who believe that Shias are Kafirs or who doubt about their status I want them to check out this information. Wassalaam.


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#5 comrade

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 07:17 PM

Who cares what they think?
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#6 Ace Abbas

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:38 AM

Those ghulat who worship Imam Ali KMW and other Imams are kuffar. Same goes to Sunni Sufis who worship their Sheikhs. They are kuffar as well.

#7 wikipedia

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:42 AM

and those people who call any person infallible beside prophets are also deviant.

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 08:37 AM

and those people who call any person infallible beside prophets are also deviant.


Don't you believe the Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå sinned?

#9 Firuzeh18

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:20 PM

and those people who call any person infallible beside prophets are also deviant.

We (the shias) say that the prophet and the 12 imams are infalliables.......... however if the ahle sunnah doesnt believe that the imams are not infallible then alright...... but what about the sunnis who say that the best human that was and will be [Muhammad-e-Mustafa (saws)] has made sins or mistakes during his life (astghfirullah)
It doesn't make sense if the prophet (pbuh) has made mistakes then why does everybody (sunni and shia) say he is the best person of all mankind??
There are even sunnis who say the other prophets (pbut) used to marry 11 women to a maximum and our prophet (saws) has married 11 women and he has 3 extra mistress......... The prophet married these women for a reason which only he and Allah(swt) know......... but accusing him as to having mistress do u think you (ahle sunnah) are on the right track...........?

Edited by fahimah18, 21 December 2011 - 02:22 PM.

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#10 Maula Dha Mallang

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:29 PM

i would rather be a "kaffir" and join the hell where sunni say hazrat abu talib (as) will go, rather than the heaven they say abu sufiyan (LA) will go
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#11 Lanatin

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 03:31 PM

If none of you have noticed already, Ameen was writing in defense of Shi'ism true Islam.

#12 power

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:16 PM

On what bases do they call shia are kaffir?

#13 Replicant

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 08:21 PM

and those people who call any person infallible beside prophets are also deviant.

On the contrary. Those who believe the Prophet (pbuh) is NOT infallible are majorly deviated.
How dare you lower the status of the Prophet (pbuh) so much?

#14 Ace Abbas

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:52 PM

Don't you believe the Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå sinned?

Don't say that. Watch your words when it comes to Rasulullah SAW. No Muslims believe that Rasulullah SAW sinned. Rasulullah SAW is masum.

On the contrary. Those who believe the Prophet (pbuh) is NOT infallible are majorly deviated.
How dare you lower the status of the Prophet (pbuh) so much?

Rasulullah SAW is masum. Watch your words.

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 05:47 AM

Don't say that. Watch your words when it comes to Rasulullah SAW. No Muslims believe that Rasulullah SAW sinned. Rasulullah SAW is masum.


Rasulullah SAW is masum. Watch your words.


Brother, I have heard Ahadith from Sunni books in which the Prophet (as) sins! It is not us who say this, it is you.

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 05:51 AM

Don't you believe the Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå sinned?

error and sin are two different things . all sins are error but all errors are not sin.

#17 Ugly Jinn

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 06:03 AM

and those people who call any person infallible beside prophets are also deviant.


error and sin are two different things . all sins are error but all errors are not sin.


You contradicted yourself. Infallible means incapable of error.

http://www.google.co...iw=1440&bih=775
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#18 wikipedia

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 06:20 AM

You contradicted yourself. Infallible means incapable of error.

http://www.google.co...iw=1440&bih=775

yes, infallible means incapable of error but which "error" . as, a muslim i believe that all prophets did not do any error to preach the message of Allah to the people. but if we see the example of adam we find that
" In the Garden of Eden, Iblis (later known as Shaytan) lured Adam and Eve into disobeying God by tasting from the forbidden tree. God, as a punishment, sends Adam and Eve out into the rest of the earth"
it means that prophet do errors not in conveying the message of Allah , but in other matters .so, whevever i say prophet is infallible it does not mean that he was free of all type of errors like Allah .

#19 Ameen

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 07:22 AM

yes, infallible means incapable of error but which "error" . as, a muslim i believe that all prophets did not do any error to preach the message of Allah to the people. but if we see the example of adam we find that
" In the Garden of Eden, Iblis (later known as Shaytan) lured Adam and Eve into disobeying God by tasting from the forbidden tree. God, as a punishment, sends Adam and Eve out into the rest of the earth"
it means that prophet do errors not in conveying the message of Allah , but in other matters .so, whevever i say prophet is infallible it does not mean that he was free of all type of errors like Allah .


First of all is this a verse from the Quran? Does it say in the Quran that Hazrath Adam [as] disobeyed Allah? Would you kindly shed some light on this and put some references forward?

#20 wikipedia

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 08:53 AM

. We belive Allah as the one and only LORD and Muhammad (pbuh ) as his last prophet - NOT UMER

no ur 12th imam is ur last prophet and all shiites believe that they will be raised in qayama with their 12th imam instead of prophet muhammad (saw) .

First of all is this a verse from the Quran? Does it say in the Quran that Hazrath Adam [as] disobeyed Allah? Would you kindly shed some light on this and put some references forward?


Shakir


Then they both ate of it, so their evil inclinations became manifest to them, and they both began to cover themselves with leaves of the garden, and Adam disobeyed his Lord, so his life became evil (to him). quran (20:121)



#21 Firuzeh18

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 09:23 AM

no ur 12th imam is ur last prophet and all shiites believe that they will be raised in qayama with their 12th imam instead of prophet muhammad (saw) .



Who says that our last imam is gonna be hazrath muhammad (pbuh)??? And whoever says that its wrong........ otherwise we would support the idea of reincarnation just like the hindus....
Firstly get ur facts right......the last imam (as) is gonna be from hazrathe muhammad-e-mustafa's (pbuh) blood line....... if u say u shiites believe that or this do u have prove........ where in najal balgha or strong shia hadith's does it mention that the last imam (as) is hazrath muhammad (pbuh)????

Let me just give a piece of advice, never generalise your opinion on everybody, because every human is unique and everyone has their own beliefs........if we believe in the imams then let us....... and we let you believe in the caliphas.... at the end of the day everyone has to answer for themselves and not for each other.......

Edited by fahimah18, 22 December 2011 - 09:25 AM.


#22 Waiting for HIM

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 10:29 AM

no ur 12th imam is ur last prophet and all shiites believe that they will be raised in qayama with their 12th imam instead of prophet muhammad (saw) .


you poor confused Sunni soul.... May Allah show you the right path of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and save you from the path of Shiateen such as Iblees, Umer, Aisha, Muawiah, Yazeed etc.
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#23 Ugly Jinn

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 03:54 PM

yes, infallible means incapable of error but which "error" . as, a muslim i believe that all prophets did not do any error to preach the message of Allah to the people. but if we see the example of adam we find that
" In the Garden of Eden, Iblis (later known as Shaytan) lured Adam and Eve into disobeying God by tasting from the forbidden tree. God, as a punishment, sends Adam and Eve out into the rest of the earth"
it means that prophet do errors not in conveying the message of Allah , but in other matters .so, whevever i say prophet is infallible it does not mean that he was free of all type of errors like Allah .


Adam is a totally different topic and not a relevant example. Adam was not preaching, there were no humans to convey a message to, nor did this event took place in the realm we live in, hence he wasn't given the title as Prophet yet. An individual becomes a Messenger when there is a message to convey to humans, this event took place prior to human existence (except Adam) hence he logically wasn't a Prophet yet.

Can't compare his example to use against other Prophets.

Edited by Ugly Jinn, 23 December 2011 - 03:55 PM.


#24 Aabiss_Shakari

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 03:44 AM

no ur 12th imam is ur last prophet and all shiites believe that they will be raised in qayama with their 12th imam instead of prophet muhammad (saw) .


No Umer is your last prophet. Umer brought so much changes in Shariah that he must be your last prophet. Foolish analysis.

#25 Aly ReZa

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 04:36 AM

yeah we are kafir nauzabillah like abu talib a.s
And you all sunnis are muslim like coward umar
May we shia go where hazrat abu talib a.s
And you all will go to umar



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