Jump to content


- - - - -


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Raised Muslims Have Begun To Irritate Me

Reverts Understanding Civil Strife

65 replies to this topic

#1 Saintly_Jinn23

Saintly_Jinn23

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,706 posts
  • Location:California, United States
  • Religion:Shi'a Islam (Ithna Asheri)
  • Interests:Mariology, Taoism, Kabbalah, Sufism/Irfan, politics, Ahlul Bayt

Posted 08 September 2011 - 02:39 AM

I felt it necessary to type this up for some of my fellow Shia here. First of all, I'd like to state that I mean this not as a personal attack on any particular user here on the forums or towards Muslims who were lucky enough to born into Muslim families and raised as Muslims since birth. I mean well by what I say here and only hope that some of the "Raised Muslim" people and users will see that some attitudes perpetuated by them are causing considerable damage to the iman of reverts and the growth of Islam itself in the long run.

People should know that I was not fortunate enough to be raised in a Muslim family, rather I was raised in a Christian household of unbelievers. I was taught that Jesus was God and that the Bible was the infallible word and law of God. Eventually I came to ask questions about the things I was being taught; simple questions like "Why?" "How?" or "Are you sure?" Some of the answers I got were sufficient for me and others I found unsatisfying. Eventually, as I searched for better answers to those questions puzzling me due to insufficient answers, I found the answers Islam had to offer to be the most pleasing to my logic and understanding which in turn brought a certain peace to my soul. Now, I feel that the peace has been disrupted and it is pertinent that I point out to my fellow Muslims that the unrest has arisen primarily due to some of the attitudes and disposition of some of our brothers and sisters who were raised in Muslims families and have been Muslim they're whole lives.

It seems, at least to me, like around some Muslims who were raised in Muslim households, we converts from other faiths are treated as lesser Muslims. In part due to our previous affiliation with another opposing faith and in part due to our habit of asking questions concerning what we are told. When during a serious theological or jurisdictional discussion it is revealed that we are reverts from another religion besides Islam, suddenly our statements and knowledge is no longer trusted and any difference we may have in opinion concerning an Islamic topic of discussion is regarded as a product of our being raised as Christians, or Jews, or Hindus, or Buddhists, or whatever and therefore not worth listening. Another problem is that I feel that the Raised-Muslims look down on our asking "Why?" or "How do you know?" a lot. If someone brings forth a certain hadith, tafsir, or fiqh ruling, and we reverts question it when we have trouble understanding it so that we may receive clarification as to the authenticity or meaning of that interpretation or tradition, we seem to be chastised as "rebels" or "questioning the Ahlul Bayt and Sunnah," when all we are asking for is knowledge to guide us aright.

On the first matter, I feel like Raised-Muslims assume that we have nothing to teach them from our own experiences in other faiths and cultures. It seems like the Raised-Muslims expect us to seek advice from them and learn by their hands, but generally have no interest in the knowledge we have from our past lifestyles in areas that they are unfamiliar with. For example, because I was raised in a Christian household, I know the Bible pretty well, as well as different Christian and Jewish apocryphal books and traditions. I don't feel like Raised-Muslims are generally interested in applying this knowledge to Islam and putting it to use within the faith. Sure, when a supposed contradiction in the Bible is mentioned, they're all ready to argue with the unbelieving Jews and Christians as though they are Biblical scientists or something, but when we reverts seek to teach certain traditions that we have kept from our pasts that we see no apparent contradiction or falsehood in treating them as Islamic practices, we are either looked at as oddities or innovators rather than being asked why we have done so in an effort to ascertain whether the traditions we have kept can truly be considered Islamic practices and/or beliefs that are independent of the falsehood we have abandoned. For example, if a Buddhist converts to Islam, but still chooses to honor the Buddha as an authority sent by the same God who sent Muhammad (pbuh), integrating certain ancient Buddhist customs with the typical customs associated with the Middle Eastern Muslims, I don't get the feeling the raised Muslims show any genuine interest and if anything are averse to such behavior. Instead of saying "Hmm, maybe he knows something we don't know," I feel like the typical response is "He's still attached to his old religion and hasn't fully embraced Islam. All the knowledge one needs is what is with us and has been with us since we were children so there's no need to read or profess belief in anything else with them as he does." This completely misses the point, when we reverts do things like this, it's not because we feel that standard doctrines and ritual are "insufficient," it's only that we feel these customs and this knowledge is but the foundation of a much larger structure with many different rooms and floors that have their own distinctive traits but are still part of the same whole. Raised-Muslims I don't think understand this because they have lived how they have lived for so long and have never been dissatisfied with it and fancy that they're particular path is the only way that people can be satisfied. People can choose to follow it or not, but only those who mimic exactly what they do 100% will find any sense of peace.

The second matter encompasses part of the first, I get the impression that if we reverts question the authenticity or logic of a tradition or ruling, we are treated as unfaithful. Again, an example: a person says that the Imam Ali (as) said such and such. I feel like those who have been raised since childhood to believe that these particular words were indeed Imam Ali's or that Imam Ali preached this, if we reverts perhaps ask why we should believe such a tradition ourselves for whatever reasons, we are barraged with accusations that we are questioning the wisdom of the Ahlul Bayt and are deviants when all we did was simply ask for the meaning of the tradition to be explained or the logic to be examined because something we have learned previously contradicts what is being attributed Imam Ali. The Raised-Muslims then tell us things like "We're not to question what we've been told by Ahlul Bayt, we're just supposed to do it and not challenge it. We're don't follow what makes sense to us but just what the Ahlul Bayt commands even it makes no sense to us." Again, they've completely missed the point. I was raised my entire life worshiping Jesus (pbuh) as God. I was told that nothing could contradict the Bible, to follow the Bible without question and not to doubt it or question it and even if it didn't make sense to me, I was still expected to believe it was true without a second thought. This was my mind state for years and had I kept this mindstate, I'd still be an unbeliever. It was only when I had a second thought, when I questioned what I was told Jesus was by the Bible or the preachers, when I asked why I should believe this or that, only when I did this did I become unsatisfied with the answers I was given and in my desire for a satisfying answer I searched out and found Islam, the straight and true path. I was told all my life that Jesus said he was God's begotten son and was given words of Jesus to read and memorize that promoted this falsehood all my life and was so convinced it was true. If I hadn't asked "Why?" or "How?" I would still be an unbeliever today. Now that I'm Muslim, I find Muslims chastising me for questioning (when all I'm trying to do is make sure that I am not being deceived again) and sitting and accusing me of unfaithfulness and being a deviant who wishes to make Islam what fits his selfish desires does nothing to increase my faith, but only makes me feel unwelcome. The only way to find the truth and stay in the truth is to ask questions and see if the answers given by a person you've asked are good enough. Raised Muslims don't understand that many of we reverts for years were taught not to question the wisdom of certain writings and long standing traditions only to realize, alhamdulillah, that we were in the wrong, deceived by lies or falsehood, mistaken. Our undying devotion to falsehood and our taking it in without question did not help us find the truth but instead only kept us steadfast longer in deception. So why should we not put forth questions, even in our new faith, so as to not be led astray by the misguided or the lying again? And why should simply questioning be counted against us as doubt or unfaithfulness of which it (questioning) is not synonymous with? If those we ask are certain they are correct, what have they to fear by our questions? That we will be reaffirmed of our choice with knowledge and understanding? Or is their chastising of our questioning certain interpretations of or narrations of certain traditions because they lack knowledge and understanding themselves and only follow what they were bidden to do by their families like those who chastised our prophets so harshly when they arrived with the right guidance?


Just in the same way, whenever We sent a Warner before thee to any people, the wealthy ones among them said: "We found our fathers following a certain religion, and we will certainly follow in their footsteps." He said: "What! Even if I brought you better guidance than that which ye found your fathers following?" They said: "For us, we deny that ye (prophets) are sent (on a mission at all)." --Surah 43:24-25



Now, after questioning that which confused us and arriving at the truth, are we expected to revert back to old habits that kept us in falsehood for so long and the logic that we know from experience does not guarantee that we are following the truth?

We should not be afraid to question, nor should we be afraid to express ourselves through certain customs or rituals indigenous to our own personalities as Allah created us all as different people of different nations, tribes, colors, and tongues, so that we might know each other and take pleasure in our diversity, the diversity which he has gifted us. There's more to following the Ahlul Bayt than copying external actions and fashions, as not all their external actions can be imitated by us, their devotees. The important thing is developing the same heart as they had and letting that which this heart produces be without guilt or fear and to pursue knowledge, which never ceases to grow, without rest.


Again, I mean no personal grudge toward anyone, I just feel like those who are raised as Muslims are not interested in pursuits for more knowledge beyond the folk traditions they have been raised with and look at reverts as being a lesser stock of Muslims because we tend to question what we are told or may adopt or even develop different breeds of "folk Islam," for ourselves and our communities than what they are used to. Even though we do not intend these customs to oppose or replace the practices/customs of our rightly guided brothers and sisters but to be beside them as another means of expressing the same knowledge and truth. That and we may also keep and integrate traditions that we were raised with in our Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, and etc. communities because we feel they are perfectly in line with what we are taught as Muslims.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23, 08 September 2011 - 03:14 AM.

  • Gypsy, Dhulfikar, ishq ast abul fazl and 5 others like this

#2 Shia_Moslem

Shia_Moslem
  • Basic Members
  • 17 posts
  • Religion:Shia
  • Interests:interested in Islam and meeting new people from all over...

Posted 08 September 2011 - 03:26 AM

Selam brother
I sometimes also have the same feeling as you do. I became muslim about 1 and a half year ago and sometimes I ask something and the answer given has an undertone of beeing annoyed because I ask. I also met people that dont take me serious when they find out that I am muslim. Some people think that only arabic or turkish people can be muslim, specially when a german guy becomes shia they dont take it serious. Its sad...
  • Gypsy likes this

#3 Saintly_Jinn23

Saintly_Jinn23

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,706 posts
  • Location:California, United States
  • Religion:Shi'a Islam (Ithna Asheri)
  • Interests:Mariology, Taoism, Kabbalah, Sufism/Irfan, politics, Ahlul Bayt

Posted 08 September 2011 - 03:37 AM

Selam brother
I sometimes also have the same feeling as you do. I became muslim about 1 and a half year ago and sometimes I ask something and the answer given has an undertone of beeing annoyed because I ask. I also met people that dont take me serious when they find out that I am muslim. Some people think that only arabic or turkish people can be muslim, specially when a german guy becomes shia they dont take it serious. Its sad...



Yes, we reverts also get a lot heat and stress already from those of our former faith, our families, and friends for our changes in lifestyle and thinking. Feeling intimidated by, leered at, or seen as "not good enough" by our Muslim brothers and sisters doesn't quite help either. What some Raised Muslims don't realize is that many people who convert to Islam and convert away from it, do so due to bad experiences with fellow Muslims, particularly with those who have been raised as Muslims their whole lives. Everytime I hear or read of a convert leaving, it has to do with poor treatment at the hands of Raised Muslims.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23, 08 September 2011 - 03:43 AM.


#4 Shia_Debater

Shia_Debater

    :)

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,495 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 08 September 2011 - 03:52 AM

(salam)

I believe you two are both totally correct. I wasnt raised as a muslim however I am not a revert, I was born into the shia family and decided to start following with my own decision, (the only islamic thing my parents probably taught me was to say bismillah before eating)

and to be honest I dont feel the way you guys do, I mean I have only been following for not even a year and there are muslim reverts who have been following for years probably yet people will most likely be more happy if I got them a hadith or a ruling than if a non muslim revert did (not boasting about myself im a nobody im talking about how some muslims put down reverts)

Muslims have to be careful with what they say, like you said you used to question the bible and that is what led you to islam and even in the Holy Qur'an it says : "This is a Book full of Blessings that we have revealed unto you so people ponder upon its verses and men of intellect may reflect. (Quran 38:29)

Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì tells us to use our brains and think and not follow blindly, I think it is good to raise questions to understand what the meaning is, however I do not think that we should just shun what is being said and not believe it because there are stuff that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì has wisdom behind that we do not know about such as why we have to pray 2 rakats fajr, 4 for dhuhr, 4 for asr, 3 for maghrib and 4 for isha.

May Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì prevent people from misleading others and taking them away from the path of the pure and holy ahlul bayt (as) and may he keep us all on siraatal mustaqeem and grant us the intercession of the Holy Ma'soom and grant us a station near the pure and holy ahlul bayt (as) inshaAllah

(wasalam)

Edited by Shia_Debater, 08 September 2011 - 03:52 AM.

  • Gypsy, Saintly_Jinn23 and Rasul like this

#5 Saintly_Jinn23

Saintly_Jinn23

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,706 posts
  • Location:California, United States
  • Religion:Shi'a Islam (Ithna Asheri)
  • Interests:Mariology, Taoism, Kabbalah, Sufism/Irfan, politics, Ahlul Bayt

Posted 08 September 2011 - 04:13 AM


Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì tells us to use our brains and think and not follow blindly, I think it is good to raise questions to understand what the meaning is, however I do not think that we should just shun what is being said and not believe it because there are stuff that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì has wisdom behind that we do not know about such as why we have to pray 2 rakats fajr, 4 for dhuhr, 4 for asr, 3 for maghrib and 4 for isha.


There are many things we do not quite comprehend, but they are still true regardless of our inability to give an explanation of their origin. Those particular "absolutes" in reality. Those things that have no explanation because they are the explanation themselves and exist just simply to exist. It's just there are some things I would say that by their nature demand explanation, particularly because they have an origin, and sometimes instead of seeking out the answer, a Raised Muslim, or even an overly zealous revert, will simply cop out by making the one who is asking for an explanation or some understanding look and feel like he or she is being unfaithful just so they look like their speaking on subjects they lack knowledge in and saying "I don't know" is a sign of faithfulness.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23, 08 September 2011 - 04:17 AM.

  • alimohamad40 and Shia_Debater like this

#6 alimohamad40

alimohamad40

    Member

  • Banned
  • 3,333 posts

Posted 08 September 2011 - 06:27 AM

Salaam
the first thing that must happen from both sides and i noticed this problem in you as well is to stop the segregation

there is no US VS them

we are all US

being raised as a muslim myself I generally take the converts more seriously because i say : " there is a bigger chance these guys will give me an unbiased and un-clouded opinion about the truth as they are less likely to have the emotional belonging or the racism side clouding their thought. Their reversion is generally a sign that they have overcome this barrier and have let go of their emotional belongings and have exited their comfort zones to embrace truth.

this was my initial thought but then i was shocked by a reality that many reverts are actually not ideologues and many are just for marriage or influence of a group to fit in that group or even some people who became muslims just because they hate the USA as funny as that sounds its true.... it went like this: I hate the USA , the USA hates muslims, so i should be a muslim lol
these reverts are no different than born Muslims.


I noticed that you also put too much emphasis on the US and them and I know that the other side also categorizes the reverts as if they are another form or something which is very unhealthy.

regarding the segregation and the presumptions and prejudgments that reverts face I agree and this disease needs to end.

Regarding the questioning of the laws of islam i will tell you that you need to be academic about it

officially you can question anything in the universe and even god himself allows us to question his existence

infact Islam starts with questioning . There is NO GOD BUT Allah

how do you deny other gods if you did not even question and consider them as potential gods and then they failed to satisfy the description of your perceived god and hence you rejected them?
so in Islam you start with THERE IS NO GOD which is the process of questioning and rejection the false gods who are limited and finite and lacking and partitioned and do not match the criteria of Divine unity


now in islam you have two sections:

one section you have to question and analyze and you are forbidden from blindly following the text or even the prophet or the quraan and that part is the fundamentals
Usool aldeen

its forbidden to imitate in the fundamentals and they must be based on your reason and your innate and established with complete certainty

once you establish the fundamentals of religion then part of them is the prophet-hood and the Ismaa (protection from Sin)

once you established this with certainty then in the details of the religion you are not supposed to reject the instructions of the prophet because you logically established that he is the masoom from your own reasoning

you can question and analyze Foro3 alddeen but you can not reject the text without providing an alternative text

so you actually can question the laws by questioning the level of their authenticity and reject laws that you genuinely know are falsely attributed to the prophet but you can not reject a law just because you feel like it and not because of its direct contradiction of Usool aldeen or a basic well established juristic formula .

Religion is based on formulas and all of foroo3 aldeen is based on the fundamentals so technically you are able to spot mistakes if an alleged law contradicts Usool aldeen directly or indirectly.

There is no problem with this but there is a problem with people who have a certain comfort zones and wish to twist all the laws of religion to stay in their comfort zones with a total disregard for the reasoning and analysis and the rights of the people in which this law was sanctioned for.
some reject laws to comply with a made up moral code of a group where going against their moral would constitute political suicide.
so the motives are the most important and god will guide those with the right motive to his true laws. .

so questioning and analyzing is always good and okay
but rejecting and completely relying on analysis is only in usool aldeen

this means even if teh prophet hypothetically told you there are two gods you will reject his words

but if the prophet hypothetically ordered you to drink alcohol what will you do??? You will drink because that's Foroo3 aldeen

In foroo3 aldeen it needs Ijtihad (deriving gods law from its sources) to be able to reject otherwise it would be regarded un-academic and analysis in contradiction to the text (false analysis)

Edited by alimohamad40, 08 September 2011 - 06:37 AM.

  • Gypsy, Mahdavist, forte and 1 other like this

#7 Waiting for HIM

Waiting for HIM

    Member

  • Banned
  • 3,516 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 08 September 2011 - 11:08 AM

The Masjid I go to, I'm surrounded with convert Muslims. They have married in born Muslims and are almost always welcomed by born Muslims. Some converted Muslims are even giving Juma khutba and stuff. Some are respected due to their zeal in learning about Islam or learning Arabic. Some are respected because they are already more knowledgeable than others.

Now as far those who are feeling being treated differently, here are my observation (right or wrong):

1. People have the tendency to speak their native languages when they are with each other, may be just this factor have caused the feelings of looked down upon among native reverts.
2. Some reverts are coming from a cultured backgrounds like they are educated, articulate, well mannered, and are respected due to these reasons besides that they have converted.
3. Some converts have very low educational background, (or criminal background), do not know how to talk intelligently with people, do not have general manners and stuff and hence are hard to get along with.

I think just the three reasons above make it that people are treated differently by other people. It has nothing to do with if they converted or not, it is due to all that which is part of people's personalities. Biases like these exist in every society and should not worry anyone. Even among born Muslims, you will tend to see like minded people would be befriending with other like minded people and has nothing to do with their being Muslims or being Shia or being same race or color.

Hope this helps..
  • Rasul likes this

#8 titumir

titumir

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,550 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 08 September 2011 - 12:38 PM

What you say is very sad and must be remedied. The very thing that attracts me to Islam is its ideals of unity and brotherhood. I was Sunni myself before becoming Shia, though so far I have not met any arrogance from other shias. (Maybe because all the shias I know are converts too :shifty: ). But generally its true, Turks and Iranians can be very nationalistic. There is a personal formula which I tell myself every time I feel frustrated. It might help you, its "I guess we cannot have every single thing that we want in life".
  • Gypsy likes this

#9 titumir

titumir

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,550 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 08 September 2011 - 01:05 PM

I have one big piece of advice for all reverts: People will bully you ONLY IF you give them the chance. Don't give anyone a chance to bully you! Go forth and read up all the books you can find to ensure you are AT LEAST as knowledgeable as Raised-Muslims, so that you can argue at their level. Remember, that there is no difference between Raised and New Muslims at all. In fact, macisaac has actually gone to Iran and studied at a howza. Go and grab the local Muslim community by the neck and do not rest until you have become a leader.
  • Gypsy, Maryammm and Hasan0404 like this

#10 Waiting for HIM

Waiting for HIM

    Member

  • Banned
  • 3,516 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 08 September 2011 - 04:52 PM

I have one big piece of advice for all reverts: People will bully you ONLY IF you give them the chance. Don't give anyone a chance to bully you! Go forth and read up all the books you can find to ensure you are AT LEAST as knowledgeable as Raised-Muslims, so that you can argue at their level. Remember, that there is no difference between Raised and New Muslims at all. In fact, macisaac has actually gone to Iran and studied at a howza. Go and grab the local Muslim community by the neck and do not rest until you have become a leader.

So is it all about being the leader????

#11 titumir

titumir

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,550 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 08 September 2011 - 11:33 PM

Every community needs a leader. If a person thinks he/she can be the leader then what is wrong with it? I certainly do not share the view that those who want to be leaders are "power hungry" or "greedy". If you have some ideas as to how the community could function better, how it should leave some backward practices, etc, then, yes, you should come forward.
  • Maryammm likes this

#12 Fatima Hussain

Fatima Hussain

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,357 posts

Posted 09 September 2011 - 08:46 AM

I feel this way often as well. And sometimes you'll try to give a bit of knowledge to a raised Muslim that they don't like and they reply with "What do you know? You've only been Muslim for a few years. I've been Muslim my whole life!" And another thing, I have been met with much suspicion as well, and it doesn't help that I don't agree with mainstream Sunni opinion. I had a girl literally say to me "I think you could be one of those fake Muslims. Only allow knows whether you are Christian or Muslim. Many Christians pose as Muslims to cause problems." I think that was the most insulted I have ever been in my life. To question my loyalty...? SubhanAllah.

#13 Gypsy

Gypsy

    Hal Min Nasirin Yansurna

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,509 posts
  • Interests:Exposing hypocrisy and double standards.

Posted 09 September 2011 - 09:28 AM

I feel this way often as well. And sometimes you'll try to give a bit of knowledge to a raised Muslim that they don't like and they reply with "What do you know? You've only been Muslim for a few years. I've been Muslim my whole life!" And another thing, I have been met with much suspicion as well, and it doesn't help that I don't agree with mainstream Sunni opinion. I had a girl literally say to me "I think you could be one of those fake Muslims. Only allow knows whether you are Christian or Muslim. Many Christians pose as Muslims to cause problems." I think that was the most insulted I have ever been in my life. To question my loyalty...? SubhanAllah.

This is really sad :cry: It made me cry.
Girl, next time when someone insulted you in such a manner then you have to fight back Posted Image

Whenever someone tries to put you down in the manner you describe, recite this surah http://al-quran.info...thmani&ver=2.00

and ask them if they are the one mentioned as the Hypocrites in the above surah. That would probably shut her up.

I don't recommend using this too often, as you don't want to be known as a rude and insensitive Muslima.

#14 Ali_Hussain

Ali_Hussain

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,765 posts

Posted 09 September 2011 - 09:54 AM

This is really sad :cry: It made me cry.
Girl, next time when someone insulted you in such a manner then you have to fight back Posted Image

Whenever someone tries to put you down in the manner you describe, recite this surah http://al-quran.info...thmani&ver=2.00

and ask them if they are the one mentioned as the Hypocrites in the above surah. That would probably shut her up.

I don't recommend using this too often, as you don't want to be known as a rude and insensitive Muslima.


+1

@ ohcuppycakee
really sorry to hear this, but sadly it doesn't suprise me, in my experience, many born muslims have terrible akhlaq, in fact, all in all western morality is far superior to the moralitiy of 'muslims', many muslims would say 'wallah' , 'i swear on my mums life' just to con you out of some very minimal amount of money (less than 20 pence- personal experience- i don't care obvioulsy, but i do feel sorry for the people who stoop so low). Where as to a person from the west, his word is his word (for the most part).

I moved from london to brussels a while back, and this 'sister' came up to me a says 'where do you come from' to which i relpied 'my father is from pakistan and my mother is from ireland' then she goes 'you should be sad, that is a dirty mix' and walks off. But the french word for sad is 'triste' the word she used was 'malheureux' it's alot more poetical to say it, and has a much deeper meaning. anyways, i was speachless, I feel sorry for such peoples parents.

I wouldn't mind if i had done something, but i was pretty much minding my own business

Edited by Ali_Hussain, 09 September 2011 - 10:50 AM.


#15 Waiting for HIM

Waiting for HIM

    Member

  • Banned
  • 3,516 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:17 AM

Guys Let's do not generalize. Whenever we see topics like these starting, we see a whole bunch of how bad pakistanis are, how bad the iranians are, how bad the arabs are.

Just like you can not say all African Americans are criminals, you can not say all born Muslims are bad.

Note that most of the countries where those Muslims are coming from a backward, illiterate, with out democracy, poor & in economical deprivation which makes the temperament of those people.

May be that's why Imam Ali (as) told us "Once fqr (poverty, deprivation, destitution, lack of resources) enter the front door, the (honor, self respect, shame, sense of self, self confidence, values, high morality, politeness) exits from the back window."
May be one of our Arabic speaking brothers/sisters could translate it better if they have heard the hadith in Arabic.

I personally have found the neatest human beings (all Muslims) from Pakistan, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Kuwait, and Hejaz and I cherish their friendship and being associated with them more than anything. They are in my witr prayer duas and I do not hold any grudge against them based on their nationalities.
  • Maryammm likes this

#16 ImAli

ImAli

    One Eyed Esther

  • Banned
  • 6,369 posts
  • Location:Nibiru Planet X
  • Religion:Reptilianism
  • Interests:Time travel, pet jinn, shapeshifting, being a zionist spy from a bad cult, Misguiding people

Posted 09 September 2011 - 12:21 PM

I think some raised muslims feel threatened by converts it is a matter or their arrogance and pride. Imagine how stupid they would feel if a convert had something to teach them, this is why some of them pretend they don't want to hear it.

Edited by ImAli, 09 September 2011 - 12:22 PM.

  • alimohamad40, ShiaBen and Maryammm like this

#17 Haydar Husayn

Haydar Husayn

    Member

  • Mods
  • 8,086 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 09 September 2011 - 01:07 PM

I always find it incredible that so many people convert to Islam despite the appalling behaviour of quite a large percentage of Muslims.
  • alimohamad40, lalala123, ireallywannaknow and 1 other like this

#18 Waiting for HIM

Waiting for HIM

    Member

  • Banned
  • 3,516 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 09 September 2011 - 01:10 PM

I always find it incredible that so many people convert to Islam despite the appalling behaviour of quite a large percentage of Muslims.

Because people look at Islam and not Muslims. Imagine what happened if majority of Muslims start behaving Islamic, more than half of the world would convert.
  • alimohamad40, ShiaBen, Haydar Husayn and 2 others like this

#19 Saintly_Jinn23

Saintly_Jinn23

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,706 posts
  • Location:California, United States
  • Religion:Shi'a Islam (Ithna Asheri)
  • Interests:Mariology, Taoism, Kabbalah, Sufism/Irfan, politics, Ahlul Bayt

Posted 10 September 2011 - 09:16 PM

I feel this way often as well. And sometimes you'll try to give a bit of knowledge to a raised Muslim that they don't like and they reply with "What do you know? You've only been Muslim for a few years. I've been Muslim my whole life!" And another thing, I have been met with much suspicion as well, and it doesn't help that I don't agree with mainstream Sunni opinion. I had a girl literally say to me "I think you could be one of those fake Muslims. Only allow knows whether you are Christian or Muslim. Many Christians pose as Muslims to cause problems." I think that was the most insulted I have ever been in my life. To question my loyalty...? SubhanAllah.



Yeah, it's this kind of attitude that bothers me. I know not all Raised Muslims are like this, but such an attitude I think is troublesome and hampers the growth of the Ummah. It makes converted Muslims regret their choice. I think though that those who were raised as Muslims can learn a lot from the experiences and knowledge of the converts because. We lived lives among the unbelievers, we know their language, their customs, their ideas. For example, some Muslims I've noticed have never read the Bible before, I was surprised when my Yemeni Sunni friend (who by his own admission is a 'terrible Muslim') said he had never read the Book of Genesis or knew that it said Isaac (pbuh) was to be sacrificed on the altar whereas I was raised for years with that idea as common knowledge. So we reverts can relate to Muslims beliefs and customs of certain religions that they don't know or don't understand. But I think some Muslims resent having to rely on a revert for knowledge and prefer to feel like the knowledge reverts have is not necessary for them to know.

#20 titumir

titumir

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,550 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 11 September 2011 - 07:11 AM

Because people look at Islam and not Muslims. Imagine what happened if majority of Muslims start behaving Islamic, more than half of the world would convert.

Why don't you actually do something positive instead of whining?

#21 Hakimabidallah

Hakimabidallah

    Slave of Allah swt

  • Unregistered
  • PipPip
  • 354 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:11 PM

I feel the same way subhana Allah. People show bad akhlaq. If I was new to following the ahlul Bayt a.s. and saw this, I don't think I would of stayed shia as I am now and would of went back to being Sunni unsatisified. People just act like they have never had social interactions. As a revert I come from a "watch how you talk with your mouth or get knocked out" lifestyle. Its a test subhana Allah. So when you see people acting that way from my eyes, I'm like man you guys just don't know how it is out there. You gotta show respect it can lead to many bad things. If you go off Shia chat and Allah forbid you come to that wrong person specially who are born/revert who are leaving a previously bad life, something bad can happen.

#22 Waiting for HIM

Waiting for HIM

    Member

  • Banned
  • 3,516 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:18 PM

Why don't you actually do something positive instead of whining?


what does that supposed to mean?????

#23 Hakimabidallah

Hakimabidallah

    Slave of Allah swt

  • Unregistered
  • PipPip
  • 354 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:21 PM


what does that supposed to mean?????


Ignore it.
  • forte and Ismahan007 like this

#24 Gotham

Gotham

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,887 posts
  • Location:In a Basket
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:38 PM

sometimes it depends on what kind of community you live in. my community seems to be fascinated by converts. they're always asking questions in an admiring tone. im sorry if you're treated as a subordinate member of the community. i think that converts have stronger faith than those born into a religion; it takes strength to leave what you've grown up on. :D

#25 Hassan_S

Hassan_S

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 391 posts
  • Religion:Muslim

Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:52 PM

I honestly fail to understand why anyone would treat a convert less than those who were born Muslims..

I ask myself...If i wasn't born a Muslim, would I have converted if I heard about it ?

So as a born Muslim, I can't help but admire those who converted and i can't imagine a born Muslim thinking otherwise.

I'm actually shocked that this topic exists
  • ireallywannaknow and :Ruffles like this



Reply to this topic



  



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Reverts, Understanding, Civil Strife

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users