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Wikipedia Taskforce: "shia_islam" Page


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#51 JawzofDETH

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 08:22 AM

Congratulations for all of you who work on the article.
I hope you'll keep in mind that, just because the article is on Shia Islam, it doesn't mean it has to present only the Shia point of view ; that would violate Wikipedia's NPOV rule.




Yes, we will abide by net-neutrality as much as is within our power, we will try to be objective, the whole point of this project was not an issue with neutrality it was with gross inaccuracies regarding our belief system.


Peace.

LOL oh darn...and i was SO looking forward to putting a whole row of (ra) after ammi jaan and umars names! oh well ill try not to sink under the weight of my dissapointment.



thanks for the heads up bro; ill focus on finishing the first paragraph today inshallah so hopefully we will be in a position to finalise and upload the article at some point before tomorrow. i just need to improve those flipping references, they suck




Wow, bro, you've really been working hard on it, I'll let you know later tonight, I just bought a laptop today so I can help with
stuff till late, while lying in bed in the evenings.

I have some plans I want for the team, if you have anything else you can finish posting it BUT otherwise, I need to call a TIMEOUT!
Till tonight. Please wait for my next post where I will explain in better details some important points about how we need
to work on this, some people are confused and falling behind....

...So till later:

TIMEOUT!


I am busy just working out some order to this whole situation, so far two-three members are working hard and the others don't know what's going on...
Was-Salaam

#52 Maula Dha Mallang

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 08:41 AM

...So till later:

TIMEOUT!


but....what am i meant to do at work then...?

#53 JawzofDETH

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 09:05 AM

but....what am i meant to do at work then...?


Haha, that's why I said if you have anything else you can finish posting it,
that's also the beauty of why Zareen chose 5 pages, so you can read
ahead for the time being.

Just bear with me bro, you'll understand when I post later,
Was-Salaam

#54 hameedeh

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 10:40 AM

(bismillah)
(salam)

Congratulations on your new laptop, Brother. I am collecting some hadith that may be useful in the future. I will check back later for your message. Thank you, everyone.

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#55 Maula Dha Mallang

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:22 PM

Sis Hameedah do you think we should have an article about "common themes in islamic art"? you could have a section for architecture, one for the zari paaks, one for the paintings, portraits etc? i think that would be a great idea for your pictures

Edited by Maula Dha Mallang, 17 June 2011 - 04:23 PM.


#56 hameedeh

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 06:48 PM

Sis Hameedah do you think we should have an article about "common themes in islamic art"? you could have a section for architecture, one for the zari paaks, one for the paintings, portraits etc? i think that would be a great idea for your pictures

(bismillah)
(salam)

Thanks, MDM, but I have to say they're not my pictures, I've grabbed them from everywhere. :) Maybe Bro JawzofDETH will get back here and let us know what's next. I will go along with whatever all of y'all think.

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  • darood shareef.gif

Edited by Hameedeh, 17 June 2011 - 06:56 PM.


#57 hameedeh

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 10:04 PM

(bismillah)
(salam)

Brother, thank you for the ^ message. I agree, this is going to be a long-term project. When we come to the point that we are satisfied with a page, we will have to watch it to make sure someone does not change it. Right now I do not know how to edit a wiki page, but as long as others know how to do it, I am happy about that. Eventually I want to learn how. InshaAllah with Allah's help and your determination, we will succeed. We all want the best for this wiki taskforce.

Attached Thumbnails

  • badr.gif
  • zulfiqar badr.jpg
  • ohod uhud.jpg
  • auhad uhud.gif
  • uhud jang.jpg
  • battle of khandaq ditch moat trench.gif
  • front of coin ya saheb al Zaman AS.jpg
  • ring siffin.jpg
  • kharjites Nahrawan.jpg
  • back of coin ya amir al Momineen AS.jpg


#58 Sheraz

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 04:50 AM

Yep sorry folks been buzy with an engagment n stuff so hvnt been able to put in the time as i initially had intended.

But yer im up for the given role!! Show me them topics!!

#59 Maula Dha Mallang

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 06:09 AM

you're the bossman ;)

#60 JawzofDETH

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 06:15 AM


(bismillah)

Salaam, Here is section one:



Shia Islam (Arabic: شيعة‎, Shīʿah, Persian: شيعي; pronounced /ˈʃɪə/) is the second largest denomination of Islam, after Sunni Islam. The followers of Shia Islam are calledShi'ites or Shias. "Shia" is the short form of the historic phrase Shīʻatu ʻAlī (شيعة علي), meaning "followers of Ali", "faction of Ali", or "party of Ali"[1][2][3][4][5]

Like other schools of thought in Islam, Shia Islam is based on the teachings of the Islamic holy book, the Qurʻān and the message of the final prophet of Islam,[6]Muhammad.[7] In contrast to other schools of thought, Shias believe that only the Almighty has the right to chose his representative to safeguard Islam, Quran and Shariah. This means that God's representatives like Prophets and Imams can not be elected by common Muslims. That is why, Shias disown the election and selection of Abu-Bakr, Omar and Usman by the people, to represent Islam and Quran. They also do not consider Ali as the fourth Caliph as the process occurred through voting system. Shias believe that Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt ("the People of the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, who are known as infallibleImams, have special spiritual and political authority over the community and they have got this authority since God gave it to them just the same way God chose Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, David and others.[6][8] Shia Muslims further believe that Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, was the first of twelve Imams and was the rightful successor to Muhammad[9] and thus reject the legitimacy of the first threecaliphs.[9][10] Hussein is notable in all branches of Shia Islam as they all agree that he is the true imam and caliph.[11]

Shias regard Ali as the second most important figure after Prophet Muhammad. According to them, Muhammad suggested on various occasions during his lifetime that Ali should be the leader of Muslims after his demise. According to this view, Ali as the successor of Muhammad not only ruled over the community in justice, but also interpreted the Sharia Law and its esoteric meaning. Hence he was regarded as being free from error and sin (infallible), and appointed by God by divine decree (Nass) to be the first Imam.[12] Ali is known as "perfect man" (al-insan al-kamil) similar to Muhammad according to Shia viewpoint.[13] As a result, Shias favor Hadiths attributed to Muhammad and Imāms, and credited to the Prophet's family and close associates, in contrast to the Sunni traditions where the sunnah is largely narrated by companions.[14][15]Thus hadith interpretation and differences are the main distinction of the Shias.[16]


Contents


Comments:
I included the contents sections for two reasons:

1) It's part of the first edit section.
2) It gives our member's find sources a chance to look for relevant refs in advance if they so wish in their spare time.

Sis Hameedeh, I got your point loud and clear; Yes, some wars, expeditions, battles will still have some multimedia sources. :)

MDM, you may now highlight your areas of issue in red, stating reasons for each highlight.
Once we are done with clearing the whole page of inaccuracies which will be a quick process,
Then the fun starts: We can collectively discuss how we are going to make the page more
comprehensive, picture-&-source rich, in short: a masterpiece. :)


Shi'ati Ya Kiraam
Was-Salaam

Edited by JawzofDETH, 18 June 2011 - 06:34 AM.


#61 Philip

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 08:17 AM

Salam,

Don't have much content to contribute due to my limited knowledge compared to you guys ma sha Allah. You guys appear to me in my humble sight .. To be among the best of the best in today's world .. Subhan Allah

Keep it up .. Bil Nasr bil Tawfiq insha Allah

Salam heroes

#62 hameedeh

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 10:03 AM

Salam,

Don't have much content to contribute due to my limited knowledge compared to you guys ma sha Allah. You guys appear to me in my humble sight .. To be among the best of the best in today's world .. Subhan Allah

Keep it up .. Bil Nasr bil Tawfiq insha Allah

Salam heroes

(bismillah)
(wasalam)

Philip, thank you. I wish that I was as good as you think we are. :blush: With your prayers and those of others, we can do better, inshaAllah. Thank you for your support. :)


(bismillah)

Salaam, Here is section one:



Shia Islam (Arabic: ÔíÚÉý, Shīʿah, Persian: ÔíÚí; pronounced /ˈʃɪə/) is the second largest denomination of Islam, after Sunni Islam. The followers of Shia Islam are calledShi'ites or Shias. "Shia" is the short form of the historic phrase Shīʻatu ʻAlī (ÔíÚÉ Úáí), meaning "followers of Ali", "faction of Ali", or "party of Ali"[1][2][3][4][5]

Like other schools of thought in Islam, Shia Islam is based on the teachings of the Islamic holy book, the Qurʻān and the message of the final prophet of Islam,[6]Muhammad.[7] In contrast to other schools of thought, Shias believe that only the Almighty has the right to chose his representative to safeguard Islam, Quran and Shariah. This means that God's representatives like Prophets and Imams can not be elected by common Muslims. That is why, Shias disown the election and selection of Abu-Bakr, Omar and Usman by the people, to represent Islam and Quran. They also do not consider Ali as the fourth Caliph as the process occurred through voting system. Shias believe that Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt ("the People of the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, who are known as infallibleImams, have special spiritual and political authority over the community and they have got this authority since God gave it to them just the same way God chose Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, David and others.[6][8] Shia Muslims further believe that Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, was the first of twelve Imams and was the rightful successor to Muhammad[9] and thus reject the legitimacy of the first threecaliphs.[9][10] Hussein is notable in all branches of Shia Islam as they all agree that he is the true imam and caliph.[11]

Shias regard Ali as the second most important figure after Prophet Muhammad. According to them, Muhammad suggested on various occasions during his lifetime that Ali should be the leader of Muslims after his demise. According to this view, Ali as the successor of Muhammad not only ruled over the community in justice, but also interpreted the Sharia Law and its esoteric meaning. Hence he was regarded as being free from error and sin (infallible), and appointed by God by divine decree (Nass) to be the first Imam.[12] Ali is known as "perfect man" (al-insan al-kamil) similar to Muhammad according to Shia viewpoint.[13] As a result, Shias favor Hadiths attributed to Muhammad and Imāms, and credited to the Prophet's family and close associates, in contrast to the Sunni traditions where the sunnah is largely narrated by companions.[14][15]Thus hadith interpretation and differences are the main distinction of the Shias.[16]


(bismillah)
(wasalam)

Thank you, Brother. A few typos, but the thing looks great, mashAllah! :)

Paragraph 2 - has the right to chose his representative - should be choose
can not be elected - should be cannot
That is why, Shias - remove the comma between why and Shias
infallibleImams - needs space between words
Jesus, David and others. - could we say Jesus, David and other prophets. What do you think?
threecaliphs. - stuck together

Paragraph 3 - here Sharia, was spelled Shariah in paragraph 2. Let's decide and pick one spelling.

Comment: Paragraph 2 might look better if it was broken into two paragraphs; easier on the eyes. :unsure:

fee aman Allah

#63 Sheraz

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 03:20 PM

We need to mention the fact that back in the day everyone was known has "Shia e Ali" , "Shia e Utham" and after it became rather obvious the term was exclusively associated with the Shia e Ali group.

And other branches like Sunni called themselves different.

#64 Maula Dha Mallang

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 09:39 AM

Shia Islam (Arabic: ÔíÚÉý, Shīʿah, Persian: ÔیÚی; pronounced /ˈʃɪə/) is the second largest denomination of Islam, after Sunni Islam. The followers of Shia Islam are called Shi'ites or Shias. "Shia" is the short form of the historic phrase Shīʻatu ʻAlī (ÔíÚÉ Úáí), meaning "followers of Ali", "faction of Ali", or "party of Ali"[1][2][3][4][5]

Like other schools of thought in Islam, Shia Islam is based on the teachings of the Islamic holy book, the Qurʻān and the message of the final prophet of Islam,[6] Muhammad.[7] In contrast to other schools of thought, Shias believe that only the Almighty has the right to chose his representative to safeguard Islam Quran and Shariah (based upon certain verses in the quran which stipulate this according to shias). This means that God's representatives like Prophets and Imams can not be elected by common Muslims. That is why, Shias disown the election and selection of Abu-Bakr, Omar and Usman by the people, to represent Islam and Quran, as there is no precedence of this method in the quran. They also do not consider Ali as the fourth Caliph as the process occurred through voting system, and shias believe that there are multiple narrations where the prophet selected ali as his successor throughout the prophets life. Shias believe that Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt ("the People of the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, who are known as infallible Imams, have special spiritual and political authority over the community and they have got this authority since God gave it to them just the same way God chose Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, David and others.[6][8] Shia Muslims further believe that Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, was the first of twelve Imams and was the rightful successor to Muhammad[9] and thus reject the legitimacy of the first three caliphs.[9][10] Hussein is notable in all branches of Shia Islam as they all agree that he is the true imam and caliph. (this whole sentence while true and obvious, seems odd here, remove it and place it somewhere else?)[11]

Shias regard Ali as the second most important figure after Prophet Muhammad. According to them, Muhammad suggested on various occasions during his lifetime that Ali should be the leader of Muslims after his demise. According to this view, Ali as the successor of Muhammad not only ruled over the community in justice, but also interpreted the Sharia Law and its esoteric meaning. Hence he was regarded as being free from error and sin (infallible), and appointed by God by divine decree (Nass) to be the first Imam.[12] Ali is known as "perfect man" (al-insan al-kamil) similar to Muhammad according to Shia viewpoint.[13] As a result, Shias favor Hadiths attributed to Muhammad and Imāms, and credited to the Prophet's family and close associates, in contrast to the Sunni traditions where the sunnah is largely narrated by companions (all of whom are viewed as trustworthy).[14][15] Thus quran and hadith interpretation and differences in hadith narrators are the main distinction of the Shias.



Jawz how is this? we can expand on each in the other sections of the article

#65 Gypsy

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 10:56 AM

(salam)
This

Hussein is notable in all branches of Shia Islam as they all agree that he is the true imam and caliph. (this whole sentence while true and obvious, seems odd here, remove it and place it somewhere else?)[11]


To this?

Grandsons of the Holy Prophet, Hassan ibn Ali and Hussein ibn Ali, is agreed by all Muslims to be the leaders of all youths in Paradise. Shias also believe that these sons of Imam Ali (as) were the true Imams and caliphs of the Muslims.

Feel free to modify/correct errors.

Everything else looks good. But if you can improve the below sentence (making it more formal) then please do so.

Infallible Imams, have special spiritual and political authority over the community and they have got this authority since God gave it to them just the same way God chose Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, David and others.


Edited by Zareen, 19 June 2011 - 11:01 AM.


#66 hameedeh

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 11:08 AM

(bismillah)
(salam)

Paragraph two
right to chose - should be choose
Imams can not be - should be cannot
That is why, Shias - should be why Shias (no comma)
method in the quran - please capitalize Quran
shias believe - please capitalize Shias
selected ali - please capitalize Ali
prophets life - prophet's (add apostrophe)
they have got this - have acquired
David and others. - could be changed to David and other prophets.
(I agree to remove the Hussein AS sentence and put it somewhere else.)

Paragraph three
Sharia law - spelled Shariah in paragraph two. (decide on the spelling and make consistent throughout)
quran - please capitalize Quran

#67 Philip

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 11:20 AM

(bismillah)
(salam)

Paragraph two
right to chose - should be choose
Imams can not be - should be cannot
That is why, Shias - should be why Shias (no comma)
method in the quran - please capitalize Quran
shias believe - please capitalize Shias
selected ali - please capitalize Ali
prophets life - prophet's (add apostrophe)
they have got this - have acquired
David and others. - could be changed to David and other prophets.
(I agree to remove the Hussein AS sentence and put it somewhere else.)

Paragraph three
Sharia law - spelled Shariah in paragraph two. (decide on the spelling and make consistent throughout)
quran - please capitalize Quran


Salam alekum,

You're a great editor mashaAllah :)

That's what editors do right?

Insane amounts of love to y'all

Salam :)

#68 Maula Dha Mallang

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 01:35 PM

Infallible Imams, have special spiritual and political authority over the community and they have got this authority since God gave it to them just the same way God chose Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, David and others.


hmm thats a tricky one.

how about this:

Infallible Imams, as divinely appointed protectors of the sharia, on account of their selection by the prophet and after that selection and announcement by the preceding imam before that imams death, have a special spiritual and political authority to shias.


?

#69 JawzofDETH

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 02:51 PM

(bismillah)
(wasalam)

Philip, thank you. I wish that I was as good as you think we are. :blush: With your prayers and those of others, we can do better, inshaAllah. Thank you for your support. :)


I echo that sentiment, Insha'Allah.

We need to mention the fact that back in the day everyone was known has "Shia e Ali" , "Shia e Utham" and after it became rather obvious the term was exclusively associated with the Shia e Ali group.

And other branches like Sunni called themselves different.


Yes, brother that is true and worth mentioning somehwere; but according to ahadith sources the holy Prophet (pbuh) referred to the shi'a of Ali. This being the only group that God's Holy Messenger (pbuh) referred to as Shi'a. In comparison the other groups were latter inventions. We will keep your suggestion maybe just not in for the first edit section.
Was-Salaam

So this is where we stand so far:

Shia Islam (Arabic: شيعة‎, Shīʿah, Persian: شيعي; pronounced /ˈʃɪə/) is the second largest denomination of Islam, after Sunni Islam. The followers of Shia Islam are calledShi'ites or Shias. "Shia" is the short form of the historic phrase Shīʻatu ʻAlī (شيعة علي), meaning "followers of Ali", "faction of Ali", or "party of Ali"[1][2][3][4][5]

Like other schools of thought in Islam, Shia Islam is based on the teachings of the Islamic holy book, the Qurʻān and the message of the final prophet of Islam,[6]Muhammad.[7] In contrast to other schools of thought, Shias believe that only the Almighty has the right to choose his representative to safeguard Islam, Quran and Shariah (Based upon verses in the Qurʻān which stipulate this according to Shias. REFS.). This means that God's representatives like Prophets and Imams cannot be elected by common Muslims. That is why Shias disown the election and selection of Abu-Bakr, Omar and Uthman by the people, to represent Islam and Quran. Thus Shi'as naturally do not consider Ali to be the fourth Caliph. Shi'as believe that there are numerous narrations where the prophet selected Ali as his successor. REFS.

Shias believe that Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt ("the People of the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, who are known as infallible Imams, have special spiritual and political authority over the community and they have got this authority since God gave it to them just the same way God chose Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and other prophets.[6][8] Shia Muslims further believe that Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, was the first of twelve Imams and was the rightful successor to Muhammad[9] and thus reject the legitimacy of the first three caliphs.[9][10] The Grandsons of the Holy Prophet, Hassan ibn Ali and Hussein ibn Ali are agreed by all Muslims to be the "leaders of all youths in Paradise." Shi'as also believe that these sons of Imam Ali were the true leaders and caliphs of the Muslims. REFS.

Shias regard Ali as the second most important figure after Prophet Muhammad. According to them, Muhammad suggested on various occasions during his lifetime that Ali should be the leader of Muslims after his demise. According to this view, Ali as the successor of Muhammad not only ruled over the community in justice, but also interpreted the Shariah Law and its esoteric meaning. Hence he was regarded as being free from error and sin (infallible), and appointed by God by divine decree (Nass) to be the first Imam.[12] Ali is known as "perfect man" (al-insan al-kamil) similar to Muhammad according to Shia viewpoint.[13] As a result, Shias favor Hadiths attributed to Muhammad and Imāms, and credited to the Prophet's family and close associates, in contrast to the Sunni traditions where the sunnah is largely narrated by the prophet's companions. (Whom Sunnis hold to all be trustworthy)[14][15] Thus the Qurʻān and hadith interpretation and differences in hadith narrators are the main distinction of the Shias.[16]


== EDITS ==
MDM's edits:
1)
Added with minor wording change. Needs refs.
2) Not Applicable:
See my edits. Reason: That can be argued to be POV. So Instead I changed it up. (It is an important point so we need to mention it NPOV somewhere else)
3)
Added with minor wording change. Needs refs.
4) Edited as per you and Zareen's citing.
Needs Sunni and Shi'a refs. (However is the placement appropriate?)
5)
Added with minor wording change.
6)
Added with minor wording change.

Hameedeh's grammar changes applied.

My Edits:
1) Removing the line which says "
as the process occurred through voting system" with slight word change. (par2)
Reason: The Imaams (as) use the argument in some ahadith that Ali (as) was both selected by Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and chosen by the people as a means of cementing his status.
There is references to this too in Imaam Ali's letter to Mu'awiyah ref: Nahjul Balaghah. Do we agree?

2) Put David before Jesus. (Old par2, New par3)
Reason: Chronology.


3) Minor grammar changes; is to are etc.

--

Goodness, once we agree with the page and are done with edits, making the changes at Wikipedia is going to be a mission - links-wise etc.

Love to you too Philip,
Was-Salaam

hmm thats a tricky one.

how about this:

Infallible Imams, as divinely appointed protectors of the sharia, on account of their selection by the prophet and after that selection and announcement by the preceding imam before that imams death, have a special spiritual and political authority to shias.


?


POV. :)
Revise it maybe.

Also if you say "according to shi'as" you need to Ref it.

Edited by JawzofDETH, 19 June 2011 - 02:53 PM.


#70 hameedeh

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 03:30 PM

(bismillah)
(salam)

Paragraph 1
calledShi'ites - space in between words

Paragraph 2
choose his representative - capitalize His for Allah
Shi'as naturally - Shias (you used Shias more, so Shi'as would be incorrect)
Shi'as believe - Shias (make consistent throughout)

Paragraph 3
have got this authority - acquired this authority would be better or use some other word
Shi'as also - Shias (be consistent)

Paragraph 4
you used the word Imāms - do you want to use the ā every time you write imam or imams? If no, then change this one to Imams.

#71 JawzofDETH

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 03:49 PM

(bismillah)
(salam)

Paragraph 1
calledShi'ites - space in between words

Paragraph 2
choose his representative - capitalize His for Allah
Shi'as naturally - Shias (you used Shias more, so Shi'as would be incorrect)
Shi'as believe - Shias (make consistent throughout)

Paragraph 3
have got this authority - acquired this authority would be better or use some other word
Shi'as also - Shias (be consistent)

Paragraph 4
you used the word Imāms - do you want to use the ā every time you write imam or imams? If no, then change this one to Imams.


Fair enough:

1) Done
2) changed to "a" instead of capital "his," captial "his" would make it POV.
3) Done (Explaination in the sentence is a bit POV, but if wikipedia is fine with it, then I suppose it's fine)
4) Thanks, Imāms is more closer to the original arabic.

Here we are:

Shia Islam (Arabic: شيعة‎, Shīʿah, Persian: شيعي; pronounced /ˈʃɪə/) is the second largest denomination of Islam, after Sunni Islam. The followers of Shia Islam are called Shi'ites or Shias. "Shia" is the short form of the historic phrase Shīʻatu ʻAlī (شيعة علي), meaning "followers of Ali", "faction of Ali", or "party of Ali"[1][2][3][4][5]

Like other schools of thought in Islam, Shia Islam is based on the teachings of the Islamic holy book, the Qurʻān and the message of the final prophet of Islam,[6]Muhammad.[7] In contrast to other schools of thought, Shias believe that only the Almighty has the right to choose a representative to safeguard Islam, Quran and Shariah (Based upon verses in the Qurʻān which stipulate this according to Shias. REFS.). This means that God's representatives like Prophets and Imāms cannot be elected by common Muslims. That is why Shias disown the election and selection of Abu-Bakr, Omar and Uthman by the people, to represent Islam and Quran. Thus Shias naturally do not consider Ali to be the fourth Caliph. Shias believe that there are numerous narrations where the prophet selected Ali as his successor. REFS.

Shias believe that Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt ("the People of the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, who are known as infallible Imāms, have special spiritual and political authority over the community and they acquired this authority since God gave it to them just the same way God chose Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and other prophets.[6][8] Shia Muslims further believe that Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, was the first of twelve Imāms and was the rightful successor to Muhammad[9] and thus reject the legitimacy of the first three caliphs.[9][10] The Grandsons of the Holy Prophet, Hassan ibn Ali and Hussein ibn Ali are agreed upon by all Muslims to be the "leaders of all youths in Paradise."
REFS. Shias also believe that these sons of Imam Ali were the true leaders and caliphs of the Muslims. REFS.

Shias regard Ali as the second most important figure after Prophet Muhammad. According to them, Muhammad suggested on various occasions during his lifetime that Ali should be the leader of Muslims after his demise. According to this view, Ali as the successor of Muhammad not only ruled over the community in justice, but also interpreted the Shariah Law and its esoteric meaning. Hence he was regarded as being free from error and sin (infallible), and appointed by God by divine decree (Nass) to be the first Imam.[12] Ali is known as "perfect man" (al-insan al-kamil) similar to Muhammad according to Shia viewpoint.[13] As a result, Shias favor Hadiths attributed to Muhammad and Imāms, and credited to the Prophet's family and close associates, in contrast to the Sunni traditions where the sunnah is largely narrated by the prophet's companions. (Whom Sunnis hold to all be trustworthy)[14][15] Thus the Qurʻān and hadith interpretation and differences in hadith narrators are the main distinction of the Shias.[16]


Added the word "upon" to "agreed" (par 3)
Refs needed for "leaders of all youths in Paradise." (par 3)
Was-Salaam

Edited by JawzofDETH, 19 June 2011 - 04:00 PM.


#72 hameedeh

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 04:16 PM

Fair enough:
[snipped out to save space]
Was-Salaam

(bismillah)
(salam)

Brother, looks good, mashAllah. Thank you. :)

(bismillah)
(salam)

One of the hadiths we are looking for (in paragraph 3 of the draft above in Post #72) is this:

HOLY PROPHET SA said, ”AL-HASANU WAL-HUSAINU SAYYIDA SHABABI AHLIL-JANNAH ." (HASAN and HUSAIN are the leader of youths of paradise).

Need the reference. Anyone can help find a good reference to this.

(bismillah)
(salam)

Reference in Post #72: Shias believe that there are numerous narrations where the prophet selected Ali as his successor. REFS. Since you said numerous do we need more than one reference?

Would this one work?

Hadith called Allah's Successor and Decisive Proof from: http://www.wilayatmission.com/H23.html

RasoolAllah (saw) said:

“Ali (asws) ibn Abi Talib (as) is Allah’s successor and My successor. He is Hujjat tul Allah (proof of Allah) and My Hujjat. He is the door to Allah and He is Door to Me. He is the Chosen One of Allah and of Me. He is loved by Allah and He is loved by Me. He is the sword of Allah and He is My sword. He is My brother, My companion, My minister, and My Wali. Those who love Him love Me, and those who hate Him hate Me. His friends are My friends and His enemies are My enemies. He is the husband of My Daughter. His Sons are My Sons. His war is My war. His words are My words. His orders are My orders. He is the master of all the successors of the prophets. He is the best of My nation. He is the master of all the people after Me."

(Ghayatol Maram page 69 hadith 16, Kanz al Ommal 185, Ithbat al Hodat volume 3 page 632 hadith 860, Bihar ul Anwar volume 26 page 263 hadith 47)

Edited by Hameedeh, 19 June 2011 - 04:08 PM.


#73 Ya Baqiyatullah (aj)

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 04:19 PM

(salam)

I never though of this, of course, Wikipedia is the first place you look!

If you guys need any help just send me a PM

#74 hameedeh

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 04:25 PM

(bismillah)
(salam)

Reference for Post #72: only the Almighty has the right to choose a representative to safeguard Islam, Quran and Shariah (Based upon verses in the Qurʻān which stipulate this according to Shias. REFS.).

Could we use these two Qur'an ayas?

"Your Lord creates and chooses (to grant mercy) to whomever He wants. (In matters of guidance) they (unbelievers) do not have the choice to choose whatever they want. Allah is too exalted to be considered equal to anything else." (28:68)

"The believing men and women must not feel free to do something in their affairs other than that which has been already decided for them by God and His Messenger. One who disobeys God and His Messenger is in plain error. (33:36)

These ayas may not be standard translations. I saw these ayas in a hadith here: http://www.wilayatmission.com/H25.html

#75 Sheraz

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 05:13 PM

Fair enough:

1) Done
2) changed to "a" instead of capital "his," captial "his" would make it POV.
3) Done (Explaination in the sentence is a bit POV, but if wikipedia is fine with it, then I suppose it's fine)
4) Thanks, Imāms is more closer to the original arabic.

Here we are:

Shia Islam (Arabic: شيعة‎, Shīʿah, Persian: شيعي; pronounced /ˈʃɪə/) is the second largest denomination of Islam, after Sunni Islam. The followers of Shia Islam are called Shi'ites or Shias. "Shia" is the short form of the historic phrase Shīʻatu ʻAlī (شيعة علي), meaning "followers of Ali", "faction of Ali", or "party of Ali"[1][2][3][4][5]

Like other schools of thought in Islam, Shia Islam is based on the teachings of the Islamic holy book, the Qurʻān and the message of the final prophet of Islam,[6]Muhammad.[7] In contrast to other schools of thought, Shias believe that only the Almighty has the right to choose a representative to safeguard Islam, Quran and Shariah (Based upon verses in the Qurʻān which stipulate this according to Shias. REFS.).


“I will create a vicegerent on earth." Al-Baqara, Verse 30
”O David! We did indeed make thee a vicegerent on earth” Surah Sad verse 26
”Thy Lord does create and choose as He pleases: no choice have they (in the matter)” Surah Al-Qasas verse 69


The above make it clear tht Allah chooses a vicegerent on earth and the stuff in bold "No choice they have (in the matter)



This means that God's representatives like Prophets and Imāms cannot be elected by common Muslims. That is why Shias disown the election and selection of Abu-Bakr, Omar and Uthman by the people, to represent Islam and Quran. Thus Shias naturally do not consider Ali to be the fourth Caliph. Shias believe that there are numerous narrations where the prophet selected Ali as his successor. REFS.

Sahih Bukhari
‘Your position to me is like the position of Harun to Musa, except that there will be no prophet after me.’
“And granted we unto him out of our mercy his brother Harun” (The Qur’an 19:53)





Shias believe that Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt ("the People of the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, who are known as infallible Imāms, have special spiritual and political authority over the community and they acquired this authority since God gave it to them just the same way God chose Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and other prophets.[6][8] Shia Muslims further believe that Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, was the first of twelve Imāms and was the rightful successor to Muhammad[9] and thus reject the legitimacy of the first three caliphs.[9][10] The Grandsons of the Holy Prophet, Hassan ibn Ali and Hussein ibn Ali are agreed upon by all Muslims to be the "leaders of all youths in Paradise."
REFS.


Sunan ibn Majah, Hadith No.118.
It was narrated that ibn Umar said: The Messenger of Allah (s.w.s) said;
"Hasan and Husain will be the leaders of the youth of Paradise,and their father is better than them"
Source


Shias also believe that these sons of Imam Ali were the true leaders and caliphs of the Muslims. REFS.

Sorry can you plz be more specific what kinda of reference you would like here


Shias regard Ali as the second most important figure after Prophet Muhammad. According to them, Muhammad suggested on various occasions during his lifetime that Ali should be the leader of Muslims after his demise. According to this view, Ali as the successor of Muhammad not only ruled over the community in justice, but also interpreted the Shariah Law and its esoteric meaning. Hence he was regarded as being free from error and sin (infallible), and appointed by God by divine decree (Nass) to be the first Imam.[12] Ali is known as "perfect man" (al-insan al-kamil) similar to Muhammad according to Shia viewpoint.[13] As a result, Shias favor Hadiths attributed to Muhammad and Imāms, and credited to the Prophet's family and close associates, in contrast to the Sunni traditions where the sunnah is largely narrated by the prophet's companions. (Whom Sunnis hold to all be trustworthy)[14][15] Thus the Qurʻān and hadith interpretation and differences in hadith narrators are the main distinction of the Shias.[16]


Added the word "upon" to "agreed" (par 3)
Refs needed for "leaders of all youths in Paradise." (par 3)
Was-Salaam


Sorry cannot find this Ref either

Edited by Sheraz, 19 June 2011 - 05:13 PM.




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