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Shia/sunni Debate In English

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I've never seen one on the internet, I would also like to find one.

Last week on Ahlulbayt TV, some Sunni guy called in on behalf of Qari Dimashqiah challenging Shias to a debate. Sayed Mohammed Musawi on the show agreed to a debate live on the channel in the near future. Can't wait for that to happen if it materialises.

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I've never seen one on the internet, I would also like to find one.

Last week on Ahlulbayt TV, some Sunni guy called in on behalf of Qari Dimashqiah challenging Shias to a debate. Sayed Mohammed Musawi on the show agreed to a debate live on the channel in the near future. Can't wait for that to happen if it materialises.

Can't wait either !!! :D

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(salam)

While I am not an Alam, I'd say such a discussion would almost be haram. What is the purpose. A salafi/wahabi would not acknowledge or accept anything said. The Jafari would accept anything the salafi/wahabi. I would be a vicious cycle of insults and stupidity with nothing coming from it but even more dislike for the other.

The thing about Islam is we are not supposed to really just waist time and that is what this would be.

Allahu Alam

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All such debates are retarded.

Spot on. How can we conduct debates with people who are not motivated by reason? All those watching and waiting to see which side can score the most points, just like a game of football. "You will never accept our Hadith and scholars and we will never accept yours." So it is pointless to waste time, because when people whose faith is built on pure emotion, as opposed to fact, are backed into a corner they will just say, "I just feel my way is right." We could only possibly debate on that which we have common ground, which is the Qur'an. So if they must take part in these exercises, let the two opposing scholars debate purely on a Qur'anic basis. Let them prove by Qur'an which side is Hizballah - the Party of Allah, the Victors (Al-Ma'idah: 56) and which side is Hizbush-shaitan - the Party of Satan, the Losers (Al-Mujadilah: 19).

ÇÏúÚõ Åöáöì ÓóÈöíáö ÑóÈøößó ÈöÇáúÍößúãóÉö æóÇáúãóæúÚöÙóÉö ÇáúÍóÓóäóÉö æóÌóÇÏöáúåõã ÈöÇáøóÊöí åöíó ÃóÍúÓóäõ Åöäøó ÑóÈøóßó åõæó ÃóÚúáóãõ Èöãóä Öóáøó Úóä ÓóÈöíáöåö æóåõæó ÃóÚúáóãõ ÈöÇáúãõåúÊóÏöíäó

"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful counsel, and argue with them in that which is best. Your Lord is best aware of the one who strays from His way, and He knows best those who are rightly-guided."

(An-Nahl: 125)

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(salam)

While I am not an Alam, I'd say such a discussion would almost be haram. What is the purpose. A salafi/wahabi would not acknowledge or accept anything said. The Jafari would accept anything the salafi/wahabi. I would be a vicious cycle of insults and stupidity with nothing coming from it but even more dislike for the other.

The thing about Islam is we are not supposed to really just waist time and that is what this would be.

Allahu Alam

Bolded words make no sense.

1.) Haram? Are you kidding me? Never have I heard of such a ruling. The Prophet (pbuh) himself debated with Christians, Jews, and such. Debate is one of the most common ways to solve differences. In fact, this entire forum is a debate forum.

2.) I said Sunnis, not salafi/wahabi. Do not compare the 2. Sunnis are tolerable and have some manners and sense. Salafis are rocks. They're ignorant, immovable, and useless. All they're good at is destroying the fine windows of other religions. (I bet Legio Invicta will quote this in his sig)

An unorganized debate does lead to uncalled for remarks and immature behavior. But I want an organized debate between 2 respected, mature, and learned scholars.

Edited by Jay

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Spot on. How can we conduct debates with people who are not motivated by reason? All those watching and waiting to see which side can score the most points, just like a game of football. "You will never accept our Hadith and scholars and we will never accept yours." So it is pointless to waste time, because when people whose faith is built on pure emotion, as opposed to fact, are backed into a corner they will just say, "I just feel my way is right." We could only possibly debate on that which we have common ground, which is the Qur'an. So if they must take part in these exercises, let the two opposing scholars debate purely on a Qur'anic basis. Let them prove by Qur'an which side is Hizballah - the Party of Allah, the Victors (Al-Ma'idah: 56) and which side is Hizbush-shaitan - the Party of Satan, the Losers (Al-Mujadilah: 19).

ÇÏúÚõ Åöáöì ÓóÈöíáö ÑóÈøößó ÈöÇáúÍößúãóÉö æóÇáúãóæúÚöÙóÉö ÇáúÍóÓóäóÉö æóÌóÇÏöáúåõã ÈöÇáøóÊöí åöíó ÃóÍúÓóäõ Åöäøó ÑóÈøóßó åõæó ÃóÚúáóãõ Èöãóä Öóáøó Úóä ÓóÈöíáöåö æóåõæó ÃóÚúáóãõ ÈöÇáúãõåúÊóÏöíäó

"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful counsel, and argue with them in that which is best. Your Lord is best aware of the one who strays from His way, and He knows best those who are rightly-guided."

(An-Nahl: 125)

Cool very nice.

Ýóãóäú ÍóÂÌøóßó Ýöíåö ãöä ÈóÚúÏö ãóÇ ÌóÇÁßó ãöäó ÇáúÚöáúãö ÝóÞõáú ÊóÚóÇáóæúÇú äóÏúÚõ ÃóÈúäóÇÁäóÇ æóÃóÈúäóÇÁßõãú æóäöÓóÇÁäóÇ æóäöÓóÇÁßõãú æóÃóäÝõÓóäóÇ æÃóäÝõÓóßõãú Ëõãøó äóÈúÊóåöáú ÝóäóÌúÚóá áøóÚúäóÉõ Çááøåö Úóáóì ÇáúßóÇÐöÈöíäó {61}

But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and ourselves and yourselves, then let us be earnest in prayer, and invoke the curse of Allah on the liars. 3:61

Who was there in this Ayat if everyone accept the truth there is no confliction. If they denies means they are denying Ayat of Allah and everyone knows Denying Ayat of Allah means that community is none but ....................... ( fill themself )

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(salam)

In all honesty, as much as I'd like to see some, the opposition always enters debates with the mindset "can't believe I'm debating with Mushriks/Kafirs/ahlul bidah/sons of Mutah etc etc." and they will never really debate with us using an open mind. This is not the case with Christians and Jews, however. It's only the Sunnis, particularly the Wahabbis/Salafis (LA), that cause such a problem and hinder the debate from expanding into something fruitful.

I'd say such a debate is impossible to find. The moment we Shias start pointing out facts about their beloved Sahaba, they will start chanting "Kafir!" "sons of ghuluw" etc. What's the point of debating people with hearts of stone?

Edited by Legio Invicta

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(salam)

In all honesty, as much as I'd like to see some, the opposition always enters debates with the mindset "can't believe I'm debating with Mushriks/Kafirs/ahlul bidah/sons of Mutah etc etc." and they will never really debate with us using an open mind. This is not the case with Christians and Jews, however. It's only the Sunnis, particularly the Wahabbis/Salafis (LA), that cause such a problem and hinder the debate from expanding into something fruitful.

I'd say such a debate is impossible to find. The moment we Shias start pointing out facts about their beloved Sahaba, they will start chanting "Kafir!" "sons of ghuluw" etc. What's the point of debating people with hearts of stone?

You said the fact. No use to hit our Knowledge bank on something which is not able to understand the word " Knowledge " ..

"Ana Madinatul 'ilm wa Aliun Babuha"-"I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is its Gate".

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Salam,

I think it will be beneficial if there was a debate and it was aired/youtubed so that it can be viewed by a great number of people. Even if one of the debator is unwilling to budge from his/her position on a matter which has been proven 'wrong' by the other party , I am sure some people/viewers will. So in the end, we may have some people accept the 'truth' and that is good enough :).

W/salam

Edited by Aghachan

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I've never seen one on the internet, I would also like to find one.

Last week on Ahlulbayt TV, some Sunni guy called in on behalf of Qari Dimashqiah challenging Shias to a debate. Sayed Mohammed Musawi on the show agreed to a debate live on the channel in the near future. Can't wait for that to happen if it materialises.

I am so glad to hear that. I prefer watching a live debating, instead of seeing the different group launching firecrackers from a distance.

(bismillah)

Debate are stupid. Dialogue is good. Debates go nowhere just make each side more stubborn and unwilling to listen.

If we can't debate against each other how can we challenge the non-Muslims ? We have to get past this step.

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Bolded words make no sense.

1.) Haram? Are you kidding me? Never have I heard of such a ruling. The Prophet (pbuh) himself debated with Christians, Jews, and such. Debate is one of the most common ways to solve differences. In fact, this entire forum is a debate forum.

2.) I said Sunnis, not salafi/wahabi. Do not compare the 2. Sunnis are tolerable and have some manners and sense. Salafis are rocks. They're ignorant, immovable, and useless. All they're good at is destroying the fine windows of other religions. (I bet Legio Invicta will quote this in his sig)

An unorganized debate does lead to uncalled for remarks and immature behavior. But I want an organized debate between 2 respected, mature, and learned scholars.

Unsure why they are bold didn't do it myself. See I would believe that but where I am at now these idiots will kick a turba from in front of you while you pray and they arent even salafi. Debates I always get the we love the Ahl ul Bayt. But they aren't special and degrading of shi'a.

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Unsure why they are bold didn't do it myself. See I would believe that but where I am at now these idiots will kick a turba from in front of you while you pray and they arent even salafi. Debates I always get the we love the Ahl ul Bayt. But they aren't special and degrading of shi'a.

Bolded are the parts I am specifically tackling in my reply. Not all Sunnis are like that. It's not hard to imagine Sunnis who are against the Wahhabi and Salafi movement. The Sunnis who are influenced by Salafi Ideas are the ones who act this way. To tell you the truth, I have more Sunni friends in my school than Shi'is, and they never gave me any of that. In fact, quite often we'd grow our friendship from the similarities in our faith. We'd review and explain haram things, even though sometimes we differ.

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Sallam,

Sunni and Shia debates are just attempts to cause greater problems in the Muslim Ummah and to make us fight against each other.

There are issues that Sunni & Shia don't agree, but then there are some issues that all Shia may not agree upon and you get the same proble with Sunni.

We should embrace each other as friends not enemies!

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Bolded are the parts I am specifically tackling in my reply. Not all Sunnis are like that. It's not hard to imagine Sunnis who are against the Wahhabi and Salafi movement. The Sunnis who are influenced by Salafi Ideas are the ones who act this way. To tell you the truth, I have more Sunni friends in my school than Shi'is, and they never gave me any of that. In fact, quite often we'd grow our friendship from the similarities in our faith. We'd review and explain haram things, even though sometimes we differ.

Mr. Yousuf Al-Hussaini is wrong, I am a Wahabi, but I would never do like that, because the person is worshiping the All-Mighty Allah.

Edited by javed-q

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Just read the book given in the link below

The Conference of Baghdad's Ulema

This supposedly centuries old book just shows that a thousand years ago the Sunni and Shia debate was exactly where it is now. The same accusations of by Sunnis i.e the Shia say the Quran is incomplete etc, the same answers by Shia. Centuries later the Sunnis still say the same things as they were saying a thousand years ago. The Sunnis have remained static, no matter how much you tell them of the truth, every generation they start at square one, they have never build upon anything. Its because their ulema are not thinkers but simple memorizers.

Debate with them is useless, they will the next day be saying the same things they were saying before the debate. No matter how much you show them in the debate that Shias dont believe that the Quran is incomplete they will still keep accusing you of believing that the Quran is incomplete.

Edited by JimJam

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Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam,

As-Salaamu-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullah,

Why are Sunnis not motivated by reason? Even though I am neither a Sunni nor a Shia but just a Muslim, I have been born and brought up in a Sunni family. I do not like Muawiya and Yazeed, I would have become a Shia if the Shias did not curse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A). It is not the Sunnis who are adamant, but the Shias. Sunnis have committed a small mistake by their attitude towards Hazrath Ali (R.A) and the killers of Hazrath Hussain (R.A), but, they do not curse Hazrath Ali (R.A) like the Shias do to the first three Caliphs (R.A). I don't understand who have given the Shias the right to curse the first three Caliphs (R.A), especially Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not say that, neither did Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) use to do that. In-fact, Hazrath Ali (R.A) ordered the Sabaites to go back after they had besieged the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A), and he had asked Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) to guard the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not show any hostility towards Hazrath Usman (R.A), in-fact there was differences between Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) and Hazrath Usman (R.A), but both these Sahabas were right in their own place. Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) was asking Hazrath Usman (R.A) to take action against Muawiya because accumulation of wealth and money is generally not advised in Islam, but not prohibited after giving the Zakah, because money can make a person proud and divert him form the remembrance of Allah. But, Hazrath Usman (R.A) could not take action on Muawiya only because he was living a luxurious life, if Muawiya did not pay the Zakah then Hazrath Usman (R.A) could have taken action, but after paying the Zakah all the money is Halal and there is nothing wrong in doing whatever we like with it. No where is it mentioned in the Quran that if you do not give away all the money remaining with you after paying the Zakah, then you will be committing a sin! All the ayats mentioned in the Quran admonishing the hoaders of wealth is for those who do not pay the Zakah. Hazrath Usman (R.A) did not know what was in the heart of Muawiya, hence he could not foresee his intentions. Hazrath Usman (R.A) was a human being, and human beings can make mistakes, hence Hazrath Usman (R.A) made a mistake by giving unquestioned authority to Muawiya, but he was ready to make amendments for his mistakes, they why did the Sabaites kill him? The declaration of Shias that the Imams are infallible is against the concept of Tawhid. Because, Quran says that nobody is infallible except Allah.

He [Hazrath Musa (A.S)] said: �The knowledge of it is with my Lord, in a record. My Lord does not err or forget. Quran 20:52

Hazrath Musa (Alaihis Salaam) did not say to Pharaoh that "My Lord and the Imams of Shia does not err" [Nousubillah], he only said "My Lord does not err".

Hazrath Usman (R.A) was the Caliph of the Islamic kingdom when he was martyred, the only reason why he did not allow the Islamic Army to fight the Sabaites was that he never liked that Madina, the city of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) should not be smeared with blood. Does a kafir [Nousubillah] think like this? Hazrath Abu Bakr, Hazrath Umar (R.A) had fought along side Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) in all the battles and were trusted companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), Hazrath Usam (R.A) was not present only during the battle of Uhud and that too because Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) had given him permission to stay behind to take care of his wife who was ailing. Shias abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A), but will the Shias give thought to it that Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not have any spite against Hazrath Aishya (R.A) after the battle of Jamal, and Hazrath Ali (R.A) treated Hazrath Aishya (R.A) with respect, addressed her as Ummul Momineen and asked Mohammad bin Abu Bakr (R.A) to safely take her to her destination? Do Shia consider themselves better than Hazrath Ali (R.A) to blatantly abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A). Does anyone approve of childrens abusing their mother for committing a mistake, will Shia approve of it? Does Shia think that they will abuse such glorious companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and his wife, for whom Allah Himself has said in the Holy Quran that these are the mothers of all the faithful, and will not be questioned for it by Allah on the Day of Judgmental.

I hate Muawiya and his followers and I do not support them, are the Shias ready to reconcile with a person like me? Let both of us come to a conclusion that neither will you abuse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A) nor will I support Muawiya. Let us remove the words 'Shia' and 'Sunni' from our minds and become one united Ummah. Because of our differences, our enemies get an opportunity to exploit and kill us, as they did in the war between Iran and Iraq. Why should we give to our enemies that opportunity? If Shias consider themselves humble and the followers of reasoning, then let us call the Ummah to get reconciled on the above mentioned criteria.

I have read your post and it is very interesting. There are a few points that I would like to make. You said " I would have become a Shia if the Shias did not curse the first 3 Khalifs [raa] and Hazrath Aisha [ra] " My friend! Firstly The Shia do not curse the first 3 Khalifs [raa] and Hazrath Aisha [ra] or anybody else as a matter of fact. It is not fair and just to say this. You can and should say that some people from the Shia community curse so and so. It is not right to target/accuse the entire community over certain peoples actions [saying or doing] regardless of which ever community that is. Secondly cursing is not only said/done by one particular community but is something that is practiced by people of different communities, Sunnis and Shias, Muslims and non Muslims alike. Thirdly cursing is not forbidden, Haraam, illegal or wrong according to any religion, law of any country or land, community or group. Lets talk about Islam here which is the main factor. What does Allah's opinion and say about cursing. Allah has clearly cursed himself and you will find the following within the Holy Quran: Lanathullah-Alal-Kafireen, Lanathullah-Alaz-Zalimeen, Lanathullah-Alal-Kazibeen etc. There are many more examples which I will put forward.

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(bismillah)

Salam,

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam,

As-Salaamu-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullah,

Why are Sunnis not motivated by reason? Even though I am neither a Sunni nor a Shia but just a Muslim, I have been born and brought up in a Sunni family. I do not like Muawiya and Yazeed, I would have become a Shia if the Shias did not curse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A). It is not the Sunnis who are adamant, but the Shias. Sunnis have committed a small mistake by their attitude towards Hazrath Ali (R.A) and the killers of Hazrath Hussain (R.A), but, they do not curse Hazrath Ali (R.A) like the Shias do to the first three Caliphs (R.A). I don't understand who have given the Shias the right to curse the first three Caliphs (R.A), especially Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not say that, neither did Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) use to do that. In-fact, Hazrath Ali (R.A) ordered the Sabaites to go back after they had besieged the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A), and he had asked Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) to guard the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not show any hostility towards Hazrath Usman (R.A), in-fact there was differences between Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) and Hazrath Usman (R.A), but both these Sahabas were right in their own place. Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) was asking Hazrath Usman (R.A) to take action against Muawiya because accumulation of wealth and money is generally not advised in Islam, but not prohibited after giving the Zakah, because money can make a person proud and divert him form the remembrance of Allah. But, Hazrath Usman (R.A) could not take action on Muawiya only because he was living a luxurious life, if Muawiya did not pay the Zakah then Hazrath Usman (R.A) could have taken action, but after paying the Zakah all the money is Halal and there is nothing wrong in doing whatever we like with it. No where is it mentioned in the Quran that if you do not give away all the money remaining with you after paying the Zakah, then you will be committing a sin! All the ayats mentioned in the Quran admonishing the hoaders of wealth is for those who do not pay the Zakah. Hazrath Usman (R.A) did not know what was in the heart of Muawiya, hence he could not foresee his intentions. Hazrath Usman (R.A) was a human being, and human beings can make mistakes, hence Hazrath Usman (R.A) made a mistake by giving unquestioned authority to Muawiya, but he was ready to make amendments for his mistakes, they why did the Sabaites kill him? The declaration of Shias that the Imams are infallible is against the concept of Tawhid. Because, Quran says that nobody is infallible except Allah.

He [Hazrath Musa (A.S)] said: �The knowledge of it is with my Lord, in a record. My Lord does not err or forget. Quran 20:52

Hazrath Musa (Alaihis Salaam) did not say to Pharaoh that "My Lord and the Imams of Shia does not err" [Nousubillah], he only said "My Lord does not err".

Hazrath Usman (R.A) was the Caliph of the Islamic kingdom when he was martyred, the only reason why he did not allow the Islamic Army to fight the Sabaites was that he never liked that Madina, the city of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) should not be smeared with blood. Does a kafir [Nousubillah] think like this? Hazrath Abu Bakr, Hazrath Umar (R.A) had fought along side Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) in all the battles and were trusted companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), Hazrath Usam (R.A) was not present only during the battle of Uhud and that too because Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) had given him permission to stay behind to take care of his wife who was ailing. Shias abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A), but will the Shias give thought to it that Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not have any spite against Hazrath Aishya (R.A) after the battle of Jamal, and Hazrath Ali (R.A) treated Hazrath Aishya (R.A) with respect, addressed her as Ummul Momineen and asked Mohammad bin Abu Bakr (R.A) to safely take her to her destination? Do Shia consider themselves better than Hazrath Ali (R.A) to blatantly abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A). Does anyone approve of childrens abusing their mother for committing a mistake, will Shia approve of it? Does Shia think that they will abuse such glorious companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and his wife, for whom Allah Himself has said in the Holy Quran that these are the mothers of all the faithful, and will not be questioned for it by Allah on the Day of Judgmental.

I hate Muawiya and his followers and I do not support them, are the Shias ready to reconcile with a person like me? Let both of us come to a conclusion that neither will you abuse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A) nor will I support Muawiya. Let us remove the words 'Shia' and 'Sunni' from our minds and become one united Ummah. Because of our differences, our enemies get an opportunity to exploit and kill us, as they did in the war between Iran and Iraq. Why should we give to our enemies that opportunity? If Shias consider themselves humble and the followers of reasoning, then let us call the Ummah to get reconciled on the above mentioned criteria.

How is it against the concept of Tawhid? Is there an 'ONLY' before 'My Lord' in the verse that you have quoted? No. Also, the verse is talking about no error being possible on part of Allah. There's nothing about humans here.

Does it say anywhere in the Quran that every creation sins? Are there any conditions to that? If your answer to the first question is YES, and the second question is NO, then we can have a discussion. It has to be within context of Isma'.

Anyway, the infallibility of Allah is infinite beyond doubt, and beyond measure. The Imams (as) and the Prophets (pbut) according to Shias were people who never sinned. They had so much certainty (aka Yaqeen) that they couldn't sin (but they could err).

Oh and if you didn't know, there is a difference between error and sin.

I spill a cup of tea = ERROR

I lie = SIN

Also, are you underestimating the ability of Allah to purify people so that they can never sin? Allah purified the Prophet (pbuh), Lady Fatima (sa), Imam Ali (as), Imam al-Hassan (as) and Imam al-Hussain (as). This can be confirmed by looking at verse 33:33 and comparing it with our own hadith books.

As for those who curse Aisha, well, they shouldn't. By curse, I mean they shouldn't swear. They can send as much la3nah on her as they want. There is nothing wrong with that. A la3na is just a dua to Allah to withdraw his mercy. I am sure Allah knows which duas to accept, and which ones not to.

Out of curiosity, how much Shia literature have you read? Not Sunnis writing books or talking about Shias, but Shias talking about Shias? You might wanna look for something to read. Will help you understand Shias better. We aren't stupid. We've obviously thought stuff through lol.

Edited by a believer

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I have read your post and it is very interesting. There are a few points that I would like to make. You said " I would have become a Shia if the Shias did not curse the first 3 Khalifs [raa] and Hazrath Aisha [ra] " My friend! Firstly The Shia do not curse the first 3 Khalifs [raa] and Hazrath Aisha [ra] or anybody else as a matter of fact. It is not fair and just to say this. You can and should say that some people from the Shia community curse so and so. It is not right to target/accuse the entire community over certain peoples actions [saying or doing] regardless of which ever community that is. Secondly cursing is not only said/done by one particular community but is something that is practiced by people of different communities, Sunnis and Shias, Muslims and non Muslims alike. Thirdly cursing is not forbidden, Haraam, illegal or wrong according to any religion, law of any country or land, community or group. Lets talk about Islam here which is the main factor. What does Allah's opinion and say about cursing. Allah has clearly cursed himself and you will find the following within the Holy Quran: Lanathullah-Alal-Kafireen, Lanathullah-Alaz-Zalimeen, Lanathullah-Alal-Kazibeen etc. There are many more examples which I will put forward. I don't think you are doing just to yourself by disregarding everything else about Shiaism and the Shia and only focusing on the cursing issue. There is alot to be discovered about Shiaism and the Shia especially regarding the vast amount of propaganda against them. So may Allah open your eyes a little more further than the cursing issue. [said with good intention].

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Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam,

As-Salaamu-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullah,

Why are Sunnis not motivated by reason? Even though I am neither a Sunni nor a Shia but just a Muslim, I have been born and brought up in a Sunni family. I do not like Muawiya and Yazeed, I would have become a Shia if the Shias did not curse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A). It is not the Sunnis who are adamant, but the Shias. Sunnis have committed a small mistake by their attitude towards Hazrath Ali (R.A) and the killers of Hazrath Hussain (R.A), but, they do not curse Hazrath Ali (R.A) like the Shias do to the first three Caliphs (R.A). I don't understand who have given the Shias the right to curse the first three Caliphs (R.A), especially Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not say that, neither did Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) use to do that. In-fact, Hazrath Ali (R.A) ordered the Sabaites to go back after they had besieged the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A), and he had asked Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) to guard the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not show any hostility towards Hazrath Usman (R.A), in-fact there was differences between Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) and Hazrath Usman (R.A), but both these Sahabas were right in their own place. Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) was asking Hazrath Usman (R.A) to take action against Muawiya because accumulation of wealth and money is generally not advised in Islam, but not prohibited after giving the Zakah, because money can make a person proud and divert him form the remembrance of Allah. But, Hazrath Usman (R.A) could not take action on Muawiya only because he was living a luxurious life, if Muawiya did not pay the Zakah then Hazrath Usman (R.A) could have taken action, but after paying the Zakah all the money is Halal and there is nothing wrong in doing whatever we like with it. No where is it mentioned in the Quran that if you do not give away all the money remaining with you after paying the Zakah, then you will be committing a sin! All the ayats mentioned in the Quran admonishing the hoaders of wealth is for those who do not pay the Zakah. Hazrath Usman (R.A) did not know what was in the heart of Muawiya, hence he could not foresee his intentions. Hazrath Usman (R.A) was a human being, and human beings can make mistakes, hence Hazrath Usman (R.A) made a mistake by giving unquestioned authority to Muawiya, but he was ready to make amendments for his mistakes, they why did the Sabaites kill him? The declaration of Shias that the Imams are infallible is against the concept of Tawhid. Because, Quran says that nobody is infallible except Allah.

He [Hazrath Musa (A.S)] said: �The knowledge of it is with my Lord, in a record. My Lord does not err or forget. Quran 20:52

Hazrath Musa (Alaihis Salaam) did not say to Pharaoh that "My Lord and the Imams of Shia does not err" [Nousubillah], he only said "My Lord does not err".

Hazrath Usman (R.A) was the Caliph of the Islamic kingdom when he was martyred, the only reason why he did not allow the Islamic Army to fight the Sabaites was that he never liked that Madina, the city of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) should not be smeared with blood. Does a kafir [Nousubillah] think like this? Hazrath Abu Bakr, Hazrath Umar (R.A) had fought along side Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) in all the battles and were trusted companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), Hazrath Usam (R.A) was not present only during the battle of Uhud and that too because Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) had given him permission to stay behind to take care of his wife who was ailing. Shias abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A), but will the Shias give thought to it that Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not have any spite against Hazrath Aishya (R.A) after the battle of Jamal, and Hazrath Ali (R.A) treated Hazrath Aishya (R.A) with respect, addressed her as Ummul Momineen and asked Mohammad bin Abu Bakr (R.A) to safely take her to her destination? Do Shia consider themselves better than Hazrath Ali (R.A) to blatantly abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A). Does anyone approve of childrens abusing their mother for committing a mistake, will Shia approve of it? Does Shia think that they will abuse such glorious companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and his wife, for whom Allah Himself has said in the Holy Quran that these are the mothers of all the faithful, and will not be questioned for it by Allah on the Day of Judgmental.

I hate Muawiya and his followers and I do not support them, are the Shias ready to reconcile with a person like me? Let both of us come to a conclusion that neither will you abuse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A) nor will I support Muawiya. Let us remove the words 'Shia' and 'Sunni' from our minds and become one united Ummah. Because of our differences, our enemies get an opportunity to exploit and kill us, as they did in the war between Iran and Iraq. Why should we give to our enemies that opportunity? If Shias consider themselves humble and the followers of reasoning, then let us call the Ummah to get reconciled on the above mentioned criteria.

You said " Sunnis have committed a small mistake by their attitude towards Hazrath Ali [ra] and the killers of Hazrath Hussain [ra] ". Thank you for being honest and open about this. I would like to say a few things about this comment of yours. Firstly! A SMALL MISTAKE??? Don't you think this is A LARGE MISTAKE??? Since Hazrath Ali [ra] and Hazrath Hussain [ra] are/were not just any ordinary individuals. PRITTY BIG MISTAKE don't you think??? Secondly! What kind of loyalty, respect and love is this for Hazrath Ali [ra] that you feel the same about everybody else who stood up against him and went so far with their personal differences that they committed bloodshed,mayhem and murder by going to war with not just the legendary Ali [ra] but also the fourth rightly guided Khalif of the Muslims????? Thirdly! What kind of justice is this, by the Ummah at that time, that they undermind and undervalued Hazrath Ali [ra] for Khilaafath on the first three occasions when he was the better man than the first three Khalifs, with all due respect, in every field, subject and way without a shadow of a doubt???? The Quran, the Sunnah and Islamic history along with reliable narrations proves this, again, without a shadow of a doubt.

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Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam,

As-Salaamu-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullah,

Why are Sunnis not motivated by reason? Even though I am neither a Sunni nor a Shia but just a Muslim, I have been born and brought up in a Sunni family. I do not like Muawiya and Yazeed, I would have become a Shia if the Shias did not curse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A). It is not the Sunnis who are adamant, but the Shias. Sunnis have committed a small mistake by their attitude towards Hazrath Ali (R.A) and the killers of Hazrath Hussain (R.A), but, they do not curse Hazrath Ali (R.A) like the Shias do to the first three Caliphs (R.A). I don't understand who have given the Shias the right to curse the first three Caliphs (R.A), especially Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not say that, neither did Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) use to do that. In-fact, Hazrath Ali (R.A) ordered the Sabaites to go back after they had besieged the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A), and he had asked Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) to guard the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not show any hostility towards Hazrath Usman (R.A), in-fact there was differences between Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) and Hazrath Usman (R.A), but both these Sahabas were right in their own place. Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) was asking Hazrath Usman (R.A) to take action against Muawiya because accumulation of wealth and money is generally not advised in Islam, but not prohibited after giving the Zakah, because money can make a person proud and divert him form the remembrance of Allah. But, Hazrath Usman (R.A) could not take action on Muawiya only because he was living a luxurious life, if Muawiya did not pay the Zakah then Hazrath Usman (R.A) could have taken action, but after paying the Zakah all the money is Halal and there is nothing wrong in doing whatever we like with it. No where is it mentioned in the Quran that if you do not give away all the money remaining with you after paying the Zakah, then you will be committing a sin! All the ayats mentioned in the Quran admonishing the hoaders of wealth is for those who do not pay the Zakah. Hazrath Usman (R.A) did not know what was in the heart of Muawiya, hence he could not foresee his intentions. Hazrath Usman (R.A) was a human being, and human beings can make mistakes, hence Hazrath Usman (R.A) made a mistake by giving unquestioned authority to Muawiya, but he was ready to make amendments for his mistakes, they why did the Sabaites kill him? The declaration of Shias that the Imams are infallible is against the concept of Tawhid. Because, Quran says that nobody is infallible except Allah.

He [Hazrath Musa (A.S)] said: �The knowledge of it is with my Lord, in a record. My Lord does not err or forget. Quran 20:52

Hazrath Musa (Alaihis Salaam) did not say to Pharaoh that "My Lord and the Imams of Shia does not err" [Nousubillah], he only said "My Lord does not err".

Hazrath Usman (R.A) was the Caliph of the Islamic kingdom when he was martyred, the only reason why he did not allow the Islamic Army to fight the Sabaites was that he never liked that Madina, the city of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) should not be smeared with blood. Does a kafir [Nousubillah] think like this? Hazrath Abu Bakr, Hazrath Umar (R.A) had fought along side Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) in all the battles and were trusted companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), Hazrath Usam (R.A) was not present only during the battle of Uhud and that too because Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) had given him permission to stay behind to take care of his wife who was ailing. Shias abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A), but will the Shias give thought to it that Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not have any spite against Hazrath Aishya (R.A) after the battle of Jamal, and Hazrath Ali (R.A) treated Hazrath Aishya (R.A) with respect, addressed her as Ummul Momineen and asked Mohammad bin Abu Bakr (R.A) to safely take her to her destination? Do Shia consider themselves better than Hazrath Ali (R.A) to blatantly abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A). Does anyone approve of childrens abusing their mother for committing a mistake, will Shia approve of it? Does Shia think that they will abuse such glorious companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and his wife, for whom Allah Himself has said in the Holy Quran that these are the mothers of all the faithful, and will not be questioned for it by Allah on the Day of Judgmental.

I hate Muawiya and his followers and I do not support them, are the Shias ready to reconcile with a person like me? Let both of us come to a conclusion that neither will you abuse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A) nor will I support Muawiya. Let us remove the words 'Shia' and 'Sunni' from our minds and become one united Ummah. Because of our differences, our enemies get an opportunity to exploit and kill us, as they did in the war between Iran and Iraq. Why should we give to our enemies that opportunity? If Shias consider themselves humble and the followers of reasoning, then let us call the Ummah to get reconciled on the above mentioned criteria.

You said " The Ahle Sunnah do not curse Hazrath Ali [ra] like the Shias do the first three Khalifs ". Tell me! Do you curse somebody point blank??? With your eyes closed??? Just like that??? Without due reason??? Tell me! What is there to curse Hazrath Ali [ra] about??? Never mind about curse this is abit too further. Tell me! Did Hazrath Ali [ra] say, do or did anything, was he part of or involved in anything that was/is capable of criticism/condemnation??? You said " I don't understand who have given Shia the right to curse the first three Khalifs ". Firstly! The Shia do not curse. People from that community curse. Secondly! Allah has given those people, not just them but also others, the right to curse with due reason. Also the first three Khalifs have given those people the right to curse them by saying/doing and also being part of/involved in things which were/are capable of severe criticism/condemnation. You will find these things, or incidents as so to speak, within authentic Ahle Sunnah books. This has been discussed/debated many times. Nevermind! I can't answer all your points in one go due to shortage of time so stick with me.

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Spot on. How can we conduct debates with people who are not motivated by reason? All those watching and waiting to see which side can score the most points, just like a game of football. "You will never accept our Hadith and scholars and we will never accept yours." So it is pointless to waste time, because when people whose faith is built on pure emotion, as opposed to fact, are backed into a corner they will just say, "I just feel my way is right." We could only possibly debate on that which we have common ground, which is the Qur'an. So if they must take part in these exercises, let the two opposing scholars debate purely on a Qur'anic basis. Let them prove by Qur'an which side is Hizballah - the Party of Allah, the Victors (Al-Ma'idah: 56) and which side is Hizbush-shaitan - the Party of Satan, the Losers (Al-Mujadilah: 19).

ÇÏúÚõ Åöáöì ÓóÈöíáö ÑóÈøößó ÈöÇáúÍößúãóÉö æóÇáúãóæúÚöÙóÉö ÇáúÍóÓóäóÉö æóÌóÇÏöáúåõã ÈöÇáøóÊöí åöíó ÃóÍúÓóäõ Åöäøó ÑóÈøóßó åõæó ÃóÚúáóãõ Èöãóä Öóáøó Úóä ÓóÈöíáöåö æóåõæó ÃóÚúáóãõ ÈöÇáúãõåúÊóÏöíäó

"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful counsel, and argue with them in that which is best. Your Lord is best aware of the one who strays from His way, and He knows best those who are rightly-guided."

(An-Nahl: 125)

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam,

As-Salaamu-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullah,

Why are Sunnis not motivated by reason? Even though I am neither a Sunni nor a Shia but just a Muslim, I have been born and brought up in a Sunni family. I do not like Muawiya and Yazeed, I would have become a Shia if the Shias did not curse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A). It is not the Sunnis who are adamant, but the Shias. Sunnis have committed a small mistake by their attitude towards Hazrath Ali (R.A) and the killers of Hazrath Hussain (R.A), but, they do not curse Hazrath Ali (R.A) like the Shias do to the first three Caliphs (R.A). I don't understand who have given the Shias the right to curse the first three Caliphs (R.A), especially Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not say that, neither did Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) use to do that. In-fact, Hazrath Ali (R.A) ordered the Sabaites to go back after they had besieged the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A), and he had asked Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) to guard the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not show any hostility towards Hazrath Usman (R.A), in-fact there was differences between Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) and Hazrath Usman (R.A), but both these Sahabas were right in their own place. Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) was asking Hazrath Usman (R.A) to take action against Muawiya because accumulation of wealth and money is generally not advised in Islam, but not prohibited after giving the Zakah, because money can make a person proud and divert him form the remembrance of Allah. But, Hazrath Usman (R.A) could not take action on Muawiya only because he was living a luxurious life, if Muawiya did not pay the Zakah then Hazrath Usman (R.A) could have taken action, but after paying the Zakah all the money is Halal and there is nothing wrong in doing whatever we like with it. No where is it mentioned in the Quran that if you do not give away all the money remaining with you after paying the Zakah, then you will be committing a sin! All the ayats mentioned in the Quran admonishing the hoaders of wealth is for those who do not pay the Zakah. Hazrath Usman (R.A) did not know what was in the heart of Muawiya, hence he could not foresee his intentions. Hazrath Usman (R.A) was a human being, and human beings can make mistakes, hence Hazrath Usman (R.A) made a mistake by giving unquestioned authority to Muawiya, but he was ready to make amendments for his mistakes, they why did the Sabaites kill him? The declaration of Shias that the Imams are infallible is against the concept of Tawhid. Because, Quran says that nobody is infallible except Allah.

He [Hazrath Musa (A.S)] said: �The knowledge of it is with my Lord, in a record. My Lord does not err or forget. Quran 20:52

Hazrath Musa (Alaihis Salaam) did not say to Pharaoh that "My Lord and the Imams of Shia does not err" [Nousubillah], he only said "My Lord does not err".

Hazrath Usman (R.A) was the Caliph of the Islamic kingdom when he was martyred, the only reason why he did not allow the Islamic Army to fight the Sabaites was that he never liked that Madina, the city of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) should not be smeared with blood. Does a kafir [Nousubillah] think like this? Hazrath Abu Bakr, Hazrath Umar (R.A) had fought along side Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) in all the battles and were trusted companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), Hazrath Usam (R.A) was not present only during the battle of Uhud and that too because Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) had given him permission to stay behind to take care of his wife who was ailing. Shias abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A), but will the Shias give thought to it that Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not have any spite against Hazrath Aishya (R.A) after the battle of Jamal, and Hazrath Ali (R.A) treated Hazrath Aishya (R.A) with respect, addressed her as Ummul Momineen and asked Mohammad bin Abu Bakr (R.A) to safely take her to her destination? Do Shia consider themselves better than Hazrath Ali (R.A) to blatantly abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A). Does anyone approve of childrens abusing their mother for committing a mistake, will Shia approve of it? Does Shia think that they will abuse such glorious companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and his wife, for whom Allah Himself has said in the Holy Quran that these are the mothers of all the faithful, and will not be questioned for it by Allah on the Day of Judgment.

I hate Muawiya and his followers and I do not support them, are the Shias ready to reconcile with a person like me? Let both of us come to a conclusion that neither will you abuse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A) nor will I support Muawiya. Let us remove the words 'Shia' and 'Sunni' from our minds and become one united Ummah. Because of our differences, our enemies get an opportunity to exploit and kill us, as they did in the war between Iran and Iraq. Why should we give to our enemies that opportunity? If Shias consider themselves humble and the followers of reasoning, then let us call the Ummah to get reconciled on the above mentioned criteria.

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You said " Sunnis have committed a small mistake by their attitude towards Hazrath Ali [ra] and the killers of Hazrath Hussain [ra] ". Thank you for being honest and open about this. I would like to say a few things about this comment of yours. Firstly! A SMALL MISTAKE??? Don't you think this is A LARGE MISTAKE??? Since Hazrath Ali [ra] and Hazrath Hussain [ra] are/were not just any ordinary individuals. PRITTY BIG MISTAKE don't you think??? Secondly! What kind of loyalty, respect and love is this for Hazrath Ali [ra] that you feel the same about everybody else who stood up against him and went so far with their personal differences that they committed bloodshed,mayhem and murder by going to war with not just the legendary Ali [ra] but also the fourth rightly guided Khalif of the Muslims????? Thirdly! What kind of justice is this, by the Ummah at that time, that they undermind and undervalued Hazrath Ali [ra] for Khilaafath on the first three occasions when he was the better man than the first three Khalifs, with all due respect, in every field, subject and way without a shadow of a doubt???? The Quran, the Sunnah and Islamic history along with reliable narrations proves this, again, without a shadow of a doubt.

Dear Brother,

As-Salaamu-Alaikum,

First of all, I do not agree with you that Hazrath Ali (R.A) was better than the first three Kalifs (R.A), indeed Hazrath Ali (R.A) was equal to them, in no way Hazrath Ali (R.A) was less then them, but I do not agree with your way of thinking that Hazrath Ali (R.A) was better than them. Everybody has the right to think his own way, since Allah has given us that freedom in this world; You can think your own way and I can think my own, but, on the Day of Judgment, Allah Ta'la will decide between us, since Allah knows the truth, and he will punish severely who was wrong and will reward who was right. He will punish severely those who were wrong, because it is not a small matter to talk ill of the Holy Companions (R.A) of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W); Indeed it is a gave sin for a Muslim to talk ill of the Holy Companions (R.A) of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W).

In my article I have mentioned that Sunnis commit a small mistake by their attitude towards Hazrath Ali and the killers of Hazrath Hussain (R.A) because Hazrath Ali, Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (Radiallahu Anhuma) will, anyway enter paradise and the people who apposed them will surely enter Hell. Even though it looks to us that these people, especially, Hazrath Hussain (R.A), went through lot of pain and suffering, in-fact it is very little compared to the recompense Allah will give to them for their sacrifices in the way of Allah. We Muslims do not believe that once a person is dead he has perished forever, we believe that on the Day of Judgment Allah Ta’al will raise us all and recompense us for our deeds, and this belief is the fundamental of our faith. Did you not hear about the hadith of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) (I do not know whether this hadith is mentioned in Shia literature or not) in which it is stated that on the Day of Judgment Allah will make a person enter Paradise for a moment only, this person would have lived the earthly life in extreme deprivation and suffering, and after coming out he will say that he has never experience pain or distress! this is because of the sublime pleasure Allah has reserved in Paradise for the faithful and believers. And because of Hazrath Hussain’s (R.A) great sacrifice in the way of Allah he would be recompensed with a loft position in Paradise.

Most of the Sunnis actually hate Yazid, and there is consensus of opinion among most of the Sunnis regarding this. Of course, there are a few Sunnis who think otherwise and I do not have any control over their thinking as I do not have any control on your thinking. The only person whom the Sunnis support is Muawiya, and it is clear that Muawiya was not a right man.

I have stated in my article that Sunnis commit a small mistake, because, it is very clear, even a small child will testify to it, that, cursing and abusing a right man, more over when he is of the status of Sahaba, is a million times more grave sin that praising a wrong man, i.e, Muawiya.

In reply to my article you have mentioned that I have love for people who stood up against Hazrath Ali (R.A). Who stood up against Hazrath Ali (R.A)? They were only Muawiya and his loyal followers! I have already mentioned that I do not like them. I do not have any liking in my heart for Muawiya and his loyal followers, barring those who followed Muawiya by mistake but did not know that they were on the wrong side.

The first three Kaliphs (R.A) were dead during the battle of Siffin and Jamal. Hazrath Aisha (R.A) regretted for fighting against Hazrath Ali (R.A) through out her life, this means that she only took sword against Hazrath Ali (R.A) by being influence by Muawiya. Muawiya aroused the sentiments of the people, while the people were still grieving the sad Martyrdom of Hazrath Usman (R.A), by hanging the blood-stained clothes of Hazrath Usman (R.A) and the emancipated fingers of his wife Hazrath Naila (R.A). This was the plan of Muawiya to create dissensions among the Ummah and to make them fight against each other, and in this he succeeded.

Who else stood up against Hazrath Ali (R.A)? If you are saying that the first three Kalifs (R.A) stood up against Hazrath Ali (R.A), then I do not agree with you. First of all, I want to tell you and all the Shias that nobody knows what exactly had happened at that time, except Allah. I am not denying history, but, in such religious matters in which the people of both sides have become extremely sentimental and prejudiced against each other, there is lot of chances that the historical matter would have been tampered by the vested interests as well as by those who were prejudiced. Only Allah knows what exactly had happened. I would give you an example, in the Sunni literature there is difference between the scholars, some say that Hazrath Ali (R.A) took about 10 days to take Bait with Hazrath Abu Bakr (R.A) while the others say that Hazrath Ali (R.A) took six months to take the Bait, now, only Allah knows the exact time when Hazrath Ali (R.A) took the bait. You may claim your literature is correct, but how can you be so certain about it and how can you prove it? Will you make the world go 'rewind' as in CD players and show every body what had happened! As the radicals on the side of Sunni had changed the facts to their benefit, even the radicals on the Shia side would have done the same. You may out-rightly deny this, but it is possible that Hazrath Ali (R.A) might be having some other reason for not taking bait with Hazrath Abu Bakr (R.A) other than thinking that he is the only one who deserves to be a Caliph, for instant, he might be grieving for the death of Prophet Muhammad (R.A) and was not in a position of taking bait with Hazrath Abu Bakr (R.A) immediately.

A Caliph is not like a king, hence Khilafat is not a seat of power and luxury, in-fact for a believer, Khilafat is a position of immense responsibility; The Caliph will be responsible and will have to answer before Allah on the Day of Judgment about all his subjects, as the head of a family will be answerable for his family! But, by reading the literature of the Shias and the Sunnis it appears that the Khilafat was a covetous position as that of a King! No, neither Hazrath Ali (R.A) nor the other Sahabas (R.A) were covetous to become Khalifs. They could discharge their services for the Ummah, as Hazrath Ali (R.A) did, by being the member of Majlis-E-Shura. Hence, Hazrath Ali (R.A) worked along with the first three Caliphs (R.A) to serve the Ummah. Why should we take the Caliph as the person with ultimate authority, as in Kingship, when this is not the case. The Caliphate actually included Majlis-E-Shura and others in authority, such as governors of the different province as an integral part of the governance. At many occasions the first three Caliphs (R.A) took the advise of Hazrath Ali (R.A) in matters of the Ummah and abided by his decision! Hazrath Usman (R.A) also took advice of Hazrath Ali (R.A) when he was besieged by the Sabaites and Hazrath Ali (R.A) did give him advise as to how to calm down the situation. Hazrath Usman (R.A) implemented his advice and it did help to certain extent, but the Sabaites were bent to kill Hazrath Usman (R.A) and were not ready with anything less than that. Caliph was just a part of government and not the head of it. Taking advise from others, particularly the Majlis-E-Shura was incumbent on the Caliph, since taking advice from others is very much important in Islam. Prophet Muhammad (S.AW) himself took advice of the Sahaba (R.A) before the battle of Uhud and he finally excepted their decision to go out of Medina to face the enemy. Hence it does not matter as to who was a Caliph, everybody had the opportunity to participate in the governance of the Ummah.

Nobody undermined and undervalued Hazrath Ali (R.A), Many Sunni scholars have acknowledge the sacrifices of Hazrath Ali (R.A) in the way of Islam. Of course, there are scholars who are bit indifferent towards Hazrath Ali (R.A), but these are few; The majority of Sunnis acknowledge the role of Hazrath Ali (R.A) in the struggle against the disbelievers. Now a days, most of the Sunnis do not say anything about Hazrath Ali (R.A) except what is good and they treat him like all the other Sahabas (R.A), but when will the Shias change their ways?

Edited by javed-q

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(bismillah)

Salam,

How is it against the concept of Tawhid? Is there an 'ONLY' before 'My Lord' in the verse that you have quoted? No. Also, the verse is talking about no error being possible on part of Allah. There's nothing about humans here.

Does it say anywhere in the Quran that every creation sins? Are there any conditions to that? If your answer to the first question is YES, and the second question is NO, then we can have a discussion. It has to be within context of Isma'.

Anyway, the infallibility of Allah is infinite beyond doubt, and beyond measure. The Imams (as) and the Prophets (pbut) according to Shias were people who never sinned. They had so much certainty (aka Yaqeen) that they couldn't sin (but they could err).

Oh and if you didn't know, there is a difference between error and sin.

I spill a cup of tea = ERROR

I lie = SIN

Also, are you underestimating the ability of Allah to purify people so that they can never sin? Allah purified the Prophet (pbuh), Lady Fatima (sa), Imam Ali (as), Imam al-Hassan (as) and Imam al-Hussain (as). This can be confirmed by looking at verse 33:33 and comparing it with our own hadith books.

As for those who curse Aisha, well, they shouldn't. By curse, I mean they shouldn't swear. They can send as much la3nah on her as they want. There is nothing wrong with that. A la3na is just a dua to Allah to withdraw his mercy. I am sure Allah knows which duas to accept, and which ones not to.

Out of curiosity, how much Shia literature have you read? Not Sunnis writing books or talking about Shias, but Shias talking about Shias? You might wanna look for something to read. Will help you understand Shias better. We aren't stupid. We've obviously thought stuff through lol.

Dear Brother,

As-Salaamu-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullah,

Allah has not only purified Hazrath Ali, Fatimah, Hussain and Hassain (R.A), but all the other Sahabas (R.A) as well.

I do not understand what you want to tell regarding Shias cursing Hazrath Aishya (R.A). First you mentioned that the Shias should not curse Hazrath Aishya (R.A), later you contradict it by telling that it is OK to send lanath, and that lanath is only a dua to Allah to remove His mercy from a person on whom lanath is sent. Swearing or not swearing does not make any difference after sending lanath on [Nousubillah] Hazrath Aishya (R.A). Lanath is not a dua to Allah to remove His mercy, but it is a blatant abuse of the person. How can you claim to love and revere Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and at the same time send lanath [Nousubillah] on his wife, moreover when Allah has clearly stated them as the Mothers of the Faithful in the Quran?

In the verse 3:61, Ayatul Mubahala, Allah asks Allah’s Messenger (S.A.W) to call the disbelievers and their children as well as his children and invoke Allah’s malison on those who question the truth. The word ‘lanath’ is mentioned in this verse to signify Allah’s malison on the people who question the truth, here it definitely does not mean to ‘remove the mercy of Allah’, but it means much more than that, it means that Allah should destroy the person who is on the wrong. Hence the meaning of lanath is not ‘remove the mercy of Allah’, but it is much more than that. Therefore, the Shias, sending lanath on [Nousubillah] Hazrath Aishya [R.A} is completely wrong.

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