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Shia/sunni Debate In English


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#1 Jay

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 06:07 PM

Anyone know a good Shia/Sunni debate in English?

#2 Replicant

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 06:13 PM

I've never seen one on the internet, I would also like to find one.
Last week on Ahlulbayt TV, some Sunni guy called in on behalf of Qari Dimashqiah challenging Shias to a debate. Sayed Mohammed Musawi on the show agreed to a debate live on the channel in the near future. Can't wait for that to happen if it materialises.

#3 Bhooka_Bhairiya

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 06:19 PM

All such debates are retarded.

#4 -Enlightened

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 06:22 PM

I've never seen one on the internet, I would also like to find one.
Last week on Ahlulbayt TV, some Sunni guy called in on behalf of Qari Dimashqiah challenging Shias to a debate. Sayed Mohammed Musawi on the show agreed to a debate live on the channel in the near future. Can't wait for that to happen if it materialises.



Can't wait either !!! :D

#5 AbuTalib1970

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:00 PM

(salam)
While I am not an Alam, I'd say such a discussion would almost be haram. What is the purpose. A salafi/wahabi would not acknowledge or accept anything said. The Jafari would accept anything the salafi/wahabi. I would be a vicious cycle of insults and stupidity with nothing coming from it but even more dislike for the other.
The thing about Islam is we are not supposed to really just waist time and that is what this would be.
Allahu Alam

#6 alirex

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:14 PM

Yes find " Peshawar Nights " its an English version of Persian Debate covering almost all aspects.

#7 Faisal Tehrani

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:16 PM

All such debates are retarded.


Spot on. How can we conduct debates with people who are not motivated by reason? All those watching and waiting to see which side can score the most points, just like a game of football. "You will never accept our Hadith and scholars and we will never accept yours." So it is pointless to waste time, because when people whose faith is built on pure emotion, as opposed to fact, are backed into a corner they will just say, "I just feel my way is right." We could only possibly debate on that which we have common ground, which is the Qur'an. So if they must take part in these exercises, let the two opposing scholars debate purely on a Qur'anic basis. Let them prove by Qur'an which side is Hizballah - the Party of Allah, the Victors (Al-Ma'idah: 56) and which side is Hizbush-shaitan - the Party of Satan, the Losers (Al-Mujadilah: 19).

ÇÏúÚõ Åöáöì ÓóÈöíáö ÑóÈøößó ÈöÇáúÍößúãóÉö æóÇáúãóæúÚöÙóÉö ÇáúÍóÓóäóÉö æóÌóÇÏöáúåõã ÈöÇáøóÊöí åöíó ÃóÍúÓóäõ Åöäøó ÑóÈøóßó åõæó ÃóÚúáóãõ Èöãóä Öóáøó Úóä ÓóÈöíáöåö æóåõæó ÃóÚúáóãõ ÈöÇáúãõåúÊóÏöíäó

"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful counsel, and argue with them in that which is best. Your Lord is best aware of the one who strays from His way, and He knows best those who are rightly-guided."
(An-Nahl: 125)

#8 Jay

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:34 PM

(salam)
While I am not an Alam, I'd say such a discussion would almost be haram. What is the purpose. A salafi/wahabi would not acknowledge or accept anything said. The Jafari would accept anything the salafi/wahabi. I would be a vicious cycle of insults and stupidity with nothing coming from it but even more dislike for the other.
The thing about Islam is we are not supposed to really just waist time and that is what this would be.
Allahu Alam

Bolded words make no sense.
1.) Haram? Are you kidding me? Never have I heard of such a ruling. The Prophet (pbuh) himself debated with Christians, Jews, and such. Debate is one of the most common ways to solve differences. In fact, this entire forum is a debate forum.
2.) I said Sunnis, not salafi/wahabi. Do not compare the 2. Sunnis are tolerable and have some manners and sense. Salafis are rocks. They're ignorant, immovable, and useless. All they're good at is destroying the fine windows of other religions. (I bet Legio Invicta will quote this in his sig)

An unorganized debate does lead to uncalled for remarks and immature behavior. But I want an organized debate between 2 respected, mature, and learned scholars.

Edited by Jay, 22 February 2011 - 09:36 PM.


#9 alirex

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 08:31 PM

Spot on. How can we conduct debates with people who are not motivated by reason? All those watching and waiting to see which side can score the most points, just like a game of football. "You will never accept our Hadith and scholars and we will never accept yours." So it is pointless to waste time, because when people whose faith is built on pure emotion, as opposed to fact, are backed into a corner they will just say, "I just feel my way is right." We could only possibly debate on that which we have common ground, which is the Qur'an. So if they must take part in these exercises, let the two opposing scholars debate purely on a Qur'anic basis. Let them prove by Qur'an which side is Hizballah - the Party of Allah, the Victors (Al-Ma'idah: 56) and which side is Hizbush-shaitan - the Party of Satan, the Losers (Al-Mujadilah: 19).

ÇÏúÚõ Åöáöì ÓóÈöíáö ÑóÈøößó ÈöÇáúÍößúãóÉö æóÇáúãóæúÚöÙóÉö ÇáúÍóÓóäóÉö æóÌóÇÏöáúåõã ÈöÇáøóÊöí åöíó ÃóÍúÓóäõ Åöäøó ÑóÈøóßó åõæó ÃóÚúáóãõ Èöãóä Öóáøó Úóä ÓóÈöíáöåö æóåõæó ÃóÚúáóãõ ÈöÇáúãõåúÊóÏöíäó

"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful counsel, and argue with them in that which is best. Your Lord is best aware of the one who strays from His way, and He knows best those who are rightly-guided."
(An-Nahl: 125)


Cool very nice.

Ýóãóäú ÍóÂÌøóßó Ýöíåö ãöä ÈóÚúÏö ãóÇ ÌóÇÁßó ãöäó ÇáúÚöáúãö ÝóÞõáú ÊóÚóÇáóæúÇú äóÏúÚõ ÃóÈúäóÇÁäóÇ æóÃóÈúäóÇÁßõãú æóäöÓóÇÁäóÇ æóäöÓóÇÁßõãú æóÃóäÝõÓóäóÇ æÃóäÝõÓóßõãú Ëõãøó äóÈúÊóåöáú ÝóäóÌúÚóá áøóÚúäóÉõ Çááøåö Úóáóì ÇáúßóÇÐöÈöíäó {61}
But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and ourselves and yourselves, then let us be earnest in prayer, and invoke the curse of Allah on the liars. 3:61

Who was there in this Ayat if everyone accept the truth there is no confliction. If they denies means they are denying Ayat of Allah and everyone knows Denying Ayat of Allah means that community is none but ....................... ( fill themself )


#10 Praetorius

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 08:45 PM

(salam)
In all honesty, as much as I'd like to see some, the opposition always enters debates with the mindset "can't believe I'm debating with Mushriks/Kafirs/ahlul bidah/sons of Mutah etc etc." and they will never really debate with us using an open mind. This is not the case with Christians and Jews, however. It's only the Sunnis, particularly the Wahabbis/Salafis (LA), that cause such a problem and hinder the debate from expanding into something fruitful.

I'd say such a debate is impossible to find. The moment we Shias start pointing out facts about their beloved Sahaba, they will start chanting "Kafir!" "sons of ghuluw" etc. What's the point of debating people with hearts of stone?

Edited by Legio Invicta, 23 February 2011 - 08:46 PM.


#11 alirex

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 09:02 PM

(salam)
In all honesty, as much as I'd like to see some, the opposition always enters debates with the mindset "can't believe I'm debating with Mushriks/Kafirs/ahlul bidah/sons of Mutah etc etc." and they will never really debate with us using an open mind. This is not the case with Christians and Jews, however. It's only the Sunnis, particularly the Wahabbis/Salafis (LA), that cause such a problem and hinder the debate from expanding into something fruitful.

I'd say such a debate is impossible to find. The moment we Shias start pointing out facts about their beloved Sahaba, they will start chanting "Kafir!" "sons of ghuluw" etc. What's the point of debating people with hearts of stone?


You said the fact. No use to hit our Knowledge bank on something which is not able to understand the word " Knowledge " ..

"Ana Madinatul 'ilm wa Aliun Babuha"-"I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is its Gate".


#12 Abu Tufayl

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 09:58 PM

(bismillah)

Debate are stupid. Dialogue is good. Debates go nowhere just make each side more stubborn and unwilling to listen.

#13 Baka

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 04:01 PM

Salam,

I think it will be beneficial if there was a debate and it was aired/youtubed so that it can be viewed by a great number of people. Even if one of the debator is unwilling to budge from his/her position on a matter which has been proven 'wrong' by the other party , I am sure some people/viewers will. So in the end, we may have some people accept the 'truth' and that is good enough :).


W/salam

Edited by Aghachan, 25 February 2011 - 04:02 PM.


#14 Abdaal

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 05:07 PM

I've never seen one on the internet, I would also like to find one.
Last week on Ahlulbayt TV, some Sunni guy called in on behalf of Qari Dimashqiah challenging Shias to a debate. Sayed Mohammed Musawi on the show agreed to a debate live on the channel in the near future. Can't wait for that to happen if it materialises.

I am so glad to hear that. I prefer watching a live debating, instead of seeing the different group launching firecrackers from a distance.

(bismillah)

Debate are stupid. Dialogue is good. Debates go nowhere just make each side more stubborn and unwilling to listen.


If we can't debate against each other how can we challenge the non-Muslims ? We have to get past this step.

#15 zeinab94

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 06:47 AM

yea there is this sayed called Sayed Ammar Nakshawani,, and he has this lecture on youtube of the Importance of Dialogue SHIA SUNNI UNITY



#16 AbuTalib1970

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 09:42 PM

Bolded words make no sense.
1.) Haram? Are you kidding me? Never have I heard of such a ruling. The Prophet (pbuh) himself debated with Christians, Jews, and such. Debate is one of the most common ways to solve differences. In fact, this entire forum is a debate forum.
2.) I said Sunnis, not salafi/wahabi. Do not compare the 2. Sunnis are tolerable and have some manners and sense. Salafis are rocks. They're ignorant, immovable, and useless. All they're good at is destroying the fine windows of other religions. (I bet Legio Invicta will quote this in his sig)

An unorganized debate does lead to uncalled for remarks and immature behavior. But I want an organized debate between 2 respected, mature, and learned scholars.

Unsure why they are bold didn't do it myself. See I would believe that but where I am at now these idiots will kick a turba from in front of you while you pray and they arent even salafi. Debates I always get the we love the Ahl ul Bayt. But they aren't special and degrading of shi'a.

#17 Jay

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 11:18 PM

Unsure why they are bold didn't do it myself. See I would believe that but where I am at now these idiots will kick a turba from in front of you while you pray and they arent even salafi. Debates I always get the we love the Ahl ul Bayt. But they aren't special and degrading of shi'a.

Bolded are the parts I am specifically tackling in my reply. Not all Sunnis are like that. It's not hard to imagine Sunnis who are against the Wahhabi and Salafi movement. The Sunnis who are influenced by Salafi Ideas are the ones who act this way. To tell you the truth, I have more Sunni friends in my school than Shi'is, and they never gave me any of that. In fact, quite often we'd grow our friendship from the similarities in our faith. We'd review and explain haram things, even though sometimes we differ.

#18 asif_gemini

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 02:16 PM

Sallam,

Sunni and Shia debates are just attempts to cause greater problems in the Muslim Ummah and to make us fight against each other.

There are issues that Sunni & Shia don't agree, but then there are some issues that all Shia may not agree upon and you get the same proble with Sunni.

We should embrace each other as friends not enemies!

#19 the.way.14

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 06:23 PM

All such debates are retarded.


you need to calm down

#20 javed-q

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 10:51 AM

Bolded are the parts I am specifically tackling in my reply. Not all Sunnis are like that. It's not hard to imagine Sunnis who are against the Wahhabi and Salafi movement. The Sunnis who are influenced by Salafi Ideas are the ones who act this way. To tell you the truth, I have more Sunni friends in my school than Shi'is, and they never gave me any of that. In fact, quite often we'd grow our friendship from the similarities in our faith. We'd review and explain haram things, even though sometimes we differ.



Mr. Yousuf Al-Hussaini is wrong, I am a Wahabi, but I would never do like that, because the person is worshiping the All-Mighty Allah.

Edited by javed-q, 21 June 2011 - 10:52 AM.


#21 JimJam

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:27 AM

Just read the book given in the link below
The Conference of Baghdad's Ulema

This supposedly centuries old book just shows that a thousand years ago the Sunni and Shia debate was exactly where it is now. The same accusations of by Sunnis i.e the Shia say the Quran is incomplete etc, the same answers by Shia. Centuries later the Sunnis still say the same things as they were saying a thousand years ago. The Sunnis have remained static, no matter how much you tell them of the truth, every generation they start at square one, they have never build upon anything. Its because their ulema are not thinkers but simple memorizers.

Debate with them is useless, they will the next day be saying the same things they were saying before the debate. No matter how much you show them in the debate that Shias dont believe that the Quran is incomplete they will still keep accusing you of believing that the Quran is incomplete.

Edited by JimJam, 21 June 2011 - 11:29 AM.


#22 Gypsy

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 08:27 AM

This is a very good book http://www.al-islam.org/murajaat/

Al-Muraja'at

A Shi'i-Sunni dialogue

(also known as 'The Right Path')

Sayyid 'Abd al-Husayn Sharaf al-Din al-Musawi

#23 Ameen

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 11:46 AM

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam,
As-Salaamu-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullah,

Why are Sunnis not motivated by reason? Even though I am neither a Sunni nor a Shia but just a Muslim, I have been born and brought up in a Sunni family. I do not like Muawiya and Yazeed, I would have become a Shia if the Shias did not curse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A). It is not the Sunnis who are adamant, but the Shias. Sunnis have committed a small mistake by their attitude towards Hazrath Ali (R.A) and the killers of Hazrath Hussain (R.A), but, they do not curse Hazrath Ali (R.A) like the Shias do to the first three Caliphs (R.A). I don't understand who have given the Shias the right to curse the first three Caliphs (R.A), especially Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not say that, neither did Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) use to do that. In-fact, Hazrath Ali (R.A) ordered the Sabaites to go back after they had besieged the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A), and he had asked Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) to guard the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not show any hostility towards Hazrath Usman (R.A), in-fact there was differences between Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) and Hazrath Usman (R.A), but both these Sahabas were right in their own place. Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) was asking Hazrath Usman (R.A) to take action against Muawiya because accumulation of wealth and money is generally not advised in Islam, but not prohibited after giving the Zakah, because money can make a person proud and divert him form the remembrance of Allah. But, Hazrath Usman (R.A) could not take action on Muawiya only because he was living a luxurious life, if Muawiya did not pay the Zakah then Hazrath Usman (R.A) could have taken action, but after paying the Zakah all the money is Halal and there is nothing wrong in doing whatever we like with it. No where is it mentioned in the Quran that if you do not give away all the money remaining with you after paying the Zakah, then you will be committing a sin! All the ayats mentioned in the Quran admonishing the hoaders of wealth is for those who do not pay the Zakah. Hazrath Usman (R.A) did not know what was in the heart of Muawiya, hence he could not foresee his intentions. Hazrath Usman (R.A) was a human being, and human beings can make mistakes, hence Hazrath Usman (R.A) made a mistake by giving unquestioned authority to Muawiya, but he was ready to make amendments for his mistakes, they why did the Sabaites kill him? The declaration of Shias that the Imams are infallible is against the concept of Tawhid. Because, Quran says that nobody is infallible except Allah.

He [Hazrath Musa (A.S)] said: �The knowledge of it is with my Lord, in a record. My Lord does not err or forget. Quran 20:52

Hazrath Musa (Alaihis Salaam) did not say to Pharaoh that "My Lord and the Imams of Shia does not err" [Nousubillah], he only said "My Lord does not err".

Hazrath Usman (R.A) was the Caliph of the Islamic kingdom when he was martyred, the only reason why he did not allow the Islamic Army to fight the Sabaites was that he never liked that Madina, the city of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) should not be smeared with blood. Does a kafir [Nousubillah] think like this? Hazrath Abu Bakr, Hazrath Umar (R.A) had fought along side Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) in all the battles and were trusted companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), Hazrath Usam (R.A) was not present only during the battle of Uhud and that too because Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) had given him permission to stay behind to take care of his wife who was ailing. Shias abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A), but will the Shias give thought to it that Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not have any spite against Hazrath Aishya (R.A) after the battle of Jamal, and Hazrath Ali (R.A) treated Hazrath Aishya (R.A) with respect, addressed her as Ummul Momineen and asked Mohammad bin Abu Bakr (R.A) to safely take her to her destination? Do Shia consider themselves better than Hazrath Ali (R.A) to blatantly abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A). Does anyone approve of childrens abusing their mother for committing a mistake, will Shia approve of it? Does Shia think that they will abuse such glorious companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and his wife, for whom Allah Himself has said in the Holy Quran that these are the mothers of all the faithful, and will not be questioned for it by Allah on the Day of Judgmental.

I hate Muawiya and his followers and I do not support them, are the Shias ready to reconcile with a person like me? Let both of us come to a conclusion that neither will you abuse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A) nor will I support Muawiya. Let us remove the words 'Shia' and 'Sunni' from our minds and become one united Ummah. Because of our differences, our enemies get an opportunity to exploit and kill us, as they did in the war between Iran and Iraq. Why should we give to our enemies that opportunity? If Shias consider themselves humble and the followers of reasoning, then let us call the Ummah to get reconciled on the above mentioned criteria.

I have read your post and it is very interesting. There are a few points that I would like to make. You said " I would have become a Shia if the Shias did not curse the first 3 Khalifs [raa] and Hazrath Aisha [ra] " My friend! Firstly The Shia do not curse the first 3 Khalifs [raa] and Hazrath Aisha [ra] or anybody else as a matter of fact. It is not fair and just to say this. You can and should say that some people from the Shia community curse so and so. It is not right to target/accuse the entire community over certain peoples actions [saying or doing] regardless of which ever community that is. Secondly cursing is not only said/done by one particular community but is something that is practiced by people of different communities, Sunnis and Shias, Muslims and non Muslims alike. Thirdly cursing is not forbidden, Haraam, illegal or wrong according to any religion, law of any country or land, community or group. Lets talk about Islam here which is the main factor. What does Allah's opinion and say about cursing. Allah has clearly cursed himself and you will find the following within the Holy Quran: Lanathullah-Alal-Kafireen, Lanathullah-Alaz-Zalimeen, Lanathullah-Alal-Kazibeen etc. There are many more examples which I will put forward.

#24 a believer

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 11:53 AM

(bismillah)

Salam,

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam,
As-Salaamu-Alaikum-Wa-Rahmatullah,

Why are Sunnis not motivated by reason? Even though I am neither a Sunni nor a Shia but just a Muslim, I have been born and brought up in a Sunni family. I do not like Muawiya and Yazeed, I would have become a Shia if the Shias did not curse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A). It is not the Sunnis who are adamant, but the Shias. Sunnis have committed a small mistake by their attitude towards Hazrath Ali (R.A) and the killers of Hazrath Hussain (R.A), but, they do not curse Hazrath Ali (R.A) like the Shias do to the first three Caliphs (R.A). I don't understand who have given the Shias the right to curse the first three Caliphs (R.A), especially Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not say that, neither did Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) use to do that. In-fact, Hazrath Ali (R.A) ordered the Sabaites to go back after they had besieged the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A), and he had asked Hazrath Hassain and Hazrath Hussain (R.A) to guard the house of Hazrath Usman (R.A). Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not show any hostility towards Hazrath Usman (R.A), in-fact there was differences between Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) and Hazrath Usman (R.A), but both these Sahabas were right in their own place. Hazrath Abu Zarr Ghiffari (R.A) was asking Hazrath Usman (R.A) to take action against Muawiya because accumulation of wealth and money is generally not advised in Islam, but not prohibited after giving the Zakah, because money can make a person proud and divert him form the remembrance of Allah. But, Hazrath Usman (R.A) could not take action on Muawiya only because he was living a luxurious life, if Muawiya did not pay the Zakah then Hazrath Usman (R.A) could have taken action, but after paying the Zakah all the money is Halal and there is nothing wrong in doing whatever we like with it. No where is it mentioned in the Quran that if you do not give away all the money remaining with you after paying the Zakah, then you will be committing a sin! All the ayats mentioned in the Quran admonishing the hoaders of wealth is for those who do not pay the Zakah. Hazrath Usman (R.A) did not know what was in the heart of Muawiya, hence he could not foresee his intentions. Hazrath Usman (R.A) was a human being, and human beings can make mistakes, hence Hazrath Usman (R.A) made a mistake by giving unquestioned authority to Muawiya, but he was ready to make amendments for his mistakes, they why did the Sabaites kill him? The declaration of Shias that the Imams are infallible is against the concept of Tawhid. Because, Quran says that nobody is infallible except Allah.

He [Hazrath Musa (A.S)] said: �The knowledge of it is with my Lord, in a record. My Lord does not err or forget. Quran 20:52

Hazrath Musa (Alaihis Salaam) did not say to Pharaoh that "My Lord and the Imams of Shia does not err" [Nousubillah], he only said "My Lord does not err".


Hazrath Usman (R.A) was the Caliph of the Islamic kingdom when he was martyred, the only reason why he did not allow the Islamic Army to fight the Sabaites was that he never liked that Madina, the city of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) should not be smeared with blood. Does a kafir [Nousubillah] think like this? Hazrath Abu Bakr, Hazrath Umar (R.A) had fought along side Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) in all the battles and were trusted companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), Hazrath Usam (R.A) was not present only during the battle of Uhud and that too because Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) had given him permission to stay behind to take care of his wife who was ailing. Shias abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A), but will the Shias give thought to it that Hazrath Ali (R.A) did not have any spite against Hazrath Aishya (R.A) after the battle of Jamal, and Hazrath Ali (R.A) treated Hazrath Aishya (R.A) with respect, addressed her as Ummul Momineen and asked Mohammad bin Abu Bakr (R.A) to safely take her to her destination? Do Shia consider themselves better than Hazrath Ali (R.A) to blatantly abuse Hazrath Aishya (R.A). Does anyone approve of childrens abusing their mother for committing a mistake, will Shia approve of it? Does Shia think that they will abuse such glorious companions of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and his wife, for whom Allah Himself has said in the Holy Quran that these are the mothers of all the faithful, and will not be questioned for it by Allah on the Day of Judgmental.

I hate Muawiya and his followers and I do not support them, are the Shias ready to reconcile with a person like me? Let both of us come to a conclusion that neither will you abuse the first three Caliphs (R.A) and Hazrath Aishya (R.A) nor will I support Muawiya. Let us remove the words 'Shia' and 'Sunni' from our minds and become one united Ummah. Because of our differences, our enemies get an opportunity to exploit and kill us, as they did in the war between Iran and Iraq. Why should we give to our enemies that opportunity? If Shias consider themselves humble and the followers of reasoning, then let us call the Ummah to get reconciled on the above mentioned criteria.



How is it against the concept of Tawhid? Is there an 'ONLY' before 'My Lord' in the verse that you have quoted? No. Also, the verse is talking about no error being possible on part of Allah. There's nothing about humans here.

Does it say anywhere in the Quran that every creation sins? Are there any conditions to that? If your answer to the first question is YES, and the second question is NO, then we can have a discussion. It has to be within context of Isma'.

Anyway, the infallibility of Allah is infinite beyond doubt, and beyond measure. The Imams (as) and the Prophets (pbut) according to Shias were people who never sinned. They had so much certainty (aka Yaqeen) that they couldn't sin (but they could err).

Oh and if you didn't know, there is a difference between error and sin.
I spill a cup of tea = ERROR
I lie = SIN

Also, are you underestimating the ability of Allah to purify people so that they can never sin? Allah purified the Prophet (pbuh), Lady Fatima (sa), Imam Ali (as), Imam al-Hassan (as) and Imam al-Hussain (as). This can be confirmed by looking at verse 33:33 and comparing it with our own hadith books.

As for those who curse Aisha, well, they shouldn't. By curse, I mean they shouldn't swear. They can send as much la3nah on her as they want. There is nothing wrong with that. A la3na is just a dua to Allah to withdraw his mercy. I am sure Allah knows which duas to accept, and which ones not to.

Out of curiosity, how much Shia literature have you read? Not Sunnis writing books or talking about Shias, but Shias talking about Shias? You might wanna look for something to read. Will help you understand Shias better. We aren't stupid. We've obviously thought stuff through lol.

Edited by a believer, 22 June 2011 - 11:56 AM.


#25 Ameen

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 02:16 PM

I have read your post and it is very interesting. There are a few points that I would like to make. You said " I would have become a Shia if the Shias did not curse the first 3 Khalifs [raa] and Hazrath Aisha [ra] " My friend! Firstly The Shia do not curse the first 3 Khalifs [raa] and Hazrath Aisha [ra] or anybody else as a matter of fact. It is not fair and just to say this. You can and should say that some people from the Shia community curse so and so. It is not right to target/accuse the entire community over certain peoples actions [saying or doing] regardless of which ever community that is. Secondly cursing is not only said/done by one particular community but is something that is practiced by people of different communities, Sunnis and Shias, Muslims and non Muslims alike. Thirdly cursing is not forbidden, Haraam, illegal or wrong according to any religion, law of any country or land, community or group. Lets talk about Islam here which is the main factor. What does Allah's opinion and say about cursing. Allah has clearly cursed himself and you will find the following within the Holy Quran: Lanathullah-Alal-Kafireen, Lanathullah-Alaz-Zalimeen, Lanathullah-Alal-Kazibeen etc. There are many more examples which I will put forward. I don't think you are doing just to yourself by disregarding everything else about Shiaism and the Shia and only focusing on the cursing issue. There is alot to be discovered about Shiaism and the Shia especially regarding the vast amount of propaganda against them. So may Allah open your eyes a little more further than the cursing issue. [said with good intention].





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