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Aga Khan and His Family

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Citing and acting on one verse from the Quran is not enough. What about 6000 other verses? In fact, why don't we start with Surah al-Mu'minoon.

This are only the first 9 verse of the Surah. You need to follow every single verse in the Quran which includes praying, fasting, guarding yourself from fornification/adultery, no drinking, no eating haram..etc.

[shakir 23:1] Successful indeed are the believers,

[shakir 23:2] Who are humble in their prayers,

[shakir 23:3] And who keep aloof from what is vain,

[shakir 23:4] And who are givers of poor-rate,

[shakir 23:5] And who guard their private parts,

[shakir 23:6] Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blameable,

[shakir 23:7] But whoever seeks to go beyond that, these are they that exceed the limits;

[shakir 23:8] And those who are keepers of their trusts and their covenant,

[shakir 23:9] And those who keep a guard on their prayers;

Zareen, you are absolutely correct! One must obey all verses of the Qu'ran, that is the fundamental principle in Islam..

I myself try to follow what you have listed (praying, fasting, guarding yourself from fornification/adultery, no drinking, no eating haram..etc.) to the best I can.

So having good thoughts is not enough. You need to act in accordance to what have been specified in the Holy Book.

BUT before one performs the rest of these things we have discussed, they will all be in vain unless they have good thoughts and intentions in doing so. When I fast for Ramadan for example, my mom tells me that if I loose my temper/become angry/etc.. then my fast has not been completed to its potential and explains to me that one must be pure in speech as well as control before fasting. Having good thoughts is a large function in understanding the rest of what the Qur'an-e-sharif explains, and understanding is the key...

“Verily, a man hath performed prayers, fasts, charity, pilgrimage and all other good works; but he will not be rewarded except by the proportion of his understanding.”

That is completely opposite to what the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the true Imams (as) taught. It might sound like a nice little sound bite to show off how open and "modern" your religion is, but it's totally in contradiction to what Islam actually teaches and demonstrates the level of knowledge this man has.

Modernity is not a factor. I just want to first understand what you are trying to explain to me. So is your say that:

NO human can interpret the Qu'ran? If this is so, than are you saying to take EVERY word in the Qur'an literally?

Please also read "The Persian Shah" in response to these knowledge-filled ahadith..

Err - is it just me, or :unsure: ..

All those ahadith talk about tafsir bi ra'y. The quote talks about someone erring, whilst sincerely trying to understand..

Two vastly different propositions (very badihi, but I can break 'em down for you if you really want). Hence, the consequences mentioned in the former are not applicable to the latter..

Thanks for your response before I could get time to make one :)

PS; I have a question, and because I am one of the 82% of Muslims who don't speak Arabic (and no thats not an estimated number lol), please bear with me:

So the difference between hadith and ahadith is that ahadith is plural, correct? Also, would it be gramatically correct if one were to say hadiths (its okay if your laughing :blush:).. Thanks :lol:

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(salam)

@princevisram

I guess you missed this since there are replies to most of your posts

(salam)

With all due respect to you and what you are following, is it ok to say that any human who is not a masoom (infallible) can interpret the Holy Quran the way he wants and then change the Islamic laws as per his whims and fancies? (though the Prophets and Imams (as) themselves cannot change it)

No you cannot, else there will be no difference between us and the christians/jews. Because they are the most deviant ones who brought changes in Allahs book (Tauraet, Injeel, Zubur) in what was revealed to them, rejected the Prophets words sent by Allah and also the last prophet (pbuh).

If you say that you dont like religious debates then that means you dont want to find out what is haq (right) and what is baatil(wrong), the same what the sunnis say, "do no dig into the past as it will create fitna". But that will be escapism from real facts. One cannot just assume that what I have been following or seeing is "truth", else there would have been no Iblis to misguide us and only thinking that Allah is All-merciful if we err.

Yes we all err and Inshallah will be forgiven but thats not all, Allah has also told us to find the truth and not just sit pretty thinking there is nothing wrong in what I am seeing and following. We cannot differentiate between right and wrong unless they are separated.

You can always have an healthy religious debate, and no you should also not think that it will hurt anyone and what they believe in. Because what you are actually doing is "Amarbil maarof wa nahi anil munkar" which is what Hazrat Imam Hussain (as) told he was doing in his(as) sermon before leaving for Karbala. If it was not the case then he (as) would have thought the same about yazeed (la) and let him(yazeed) change Islam as per his whims and fancies. As you might be knowing by now what harm yazeed (la) was doing to Islam and what would have happened if Imam Hussain(as) kept silent and karbala did not occur

All these things have to be sincerely contemplated and thought over to know what is our role, since its not just a fairy tale to be listened to but rather to implement it in our actions

Remember that whatever we would be accounted for on the day of judgement, there would be no excuse as you will be told that everything was there for your guidance in the world (genuine/authentic books, scholars, etc) but still you did not avail them and went astray

(wasalam)

(wasalam)

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(salam)

@princevisram

I guess you missed this since there are replies to most of your posts

With all due respect to you and what you are following, is it ok to say that any human who is not a masoom (infallible) can interpret the Holy Quran the way he wants and then change the Islamic laws as per his whims and fancies? (though the Prophets and Imams themselves cannot change it)

No you cannot, else there will be no difference between us and the christians/jews. Because they are the most deviant ones who brought changes in Allahs book (Tauraet, Injeel, Zubur) in what was revealed to them, rejected the Prophets words sent by Allah and also the last prophet .

If you say that you dont like religious debates then that means you dont want to find out what is haq (right) and what is baatil(wrong), the same what the sunnis say, "do no dig into the past as it will create fitna". But that will be escapism from real facts. One cannot just assume that what I have been following or seeing is "truth", else there would have been no Iblis to misguide us and only thinking that Allah is All-merciful if we err.

Yes we all err and Inshallah will be forgiven but thats not all, Allah has also told us to find the truth and not just sit pretty thinking there is nothing wrong in what I am seeing and following. We cannot differentiate between right and wrong unless they are separated.

You can always have an healthy religious debate, and no you should also not think that it will hurt anyone and what they believe in. Because what you are actually doing is "Amarbil maarof wa nahi anil munkar" which is what Hazrat Imam Hussain told he was doing in his(as) sermon before leaving for Karbala. If it was not the case then he would have thought the same about yazeed (la) and let him(yazeed) change Islam as per his whims and fancies. As you might be knowing by now what harm yazeed (la) was doing to Islam and what would have happened if Imam Hussain(as) kept silent and karbala did not occur

All these things have to be sincerely contemplated and thought over to know what is our role, since its not just a fairy tale to be listened to but rather to implement it in our actions

Remember that whatever we would be accounted for on the day of judgement, there would be no excuse as you will be told that everything was there for your guidance in the world (genuine/authentic books, scholars, etc) but still you did not avail them and went astray

(wasalam)

I didn't miss your post but actually just ignored it because I felt I have already expressed my feelings on this topic already elsewhere in this thread. I should have at least mentioned this earlier though, and I am sorry I did not. I have said this twice before already, but thats okay you may have missed it:

I'm not a big fan of debates and proving each other wrong or right, so I am not going to further post my opinions.. You can accept it as surrender or weakness if you'd like, but I am doing it in the name of peace. I answer to provide understanding, not to spark debate - I'm just not that type.. I feel that as we debate and prove each other, our brotherhood separates. Again, I would not know, as I am probably not as experienced as the most of the members on this forum. May Allah guide us all.

"Do not commit yourself to lengthy discussions of religion- such talk only succeeds in making religion a complex and confused matter. God has made religion easy and simple."

- Prophet Muhammad (Essential Sufism, pg. 89)

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So the difference between hadith and ahadith is that ahadith is plural, correct? Also, would it be gramatically correct if one were to say hadiths (its okay if your laughing ).. Thanks

lol, interesting question (because I actually am laughing!). Yes, ahadith is the grammatically correct plural term. However, it is clearly relatively less well-known. Hadiths would _not_ be grammatically correct, no (mixing Arabic root with English plural conjugation) - although nowadays, it would be culturally correct (especially on SC :lol:). I don't mind when people use it since a lot of people nowadays do, but I would advise you not to..

Reminds me of an anecdote from Ayatullah Mojtahedi [QS], who once used to jokingly mock in his public akhlaq classes, those pilgrims who return from hajj, and then when they want to do riya`, they swear by the "sang-e hajar" ("hajar" being rock in Arabic, and "sang" being rock in Farsi) - if somebody, especially a talebe (hawza student), uses this phrases, it only reveals there illiterateness!

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lol, interesting question (because I actually am laughing!). Yes, ahadith is the grammatically correct plural term. However, it is clearly relatively less well-known. Hadiths would _not_ be grammatically correct, no (mixing Arabic root with English plural conjugation) - although nowadays, it would be culturally correct (especially on SC :lol:). I don't mind when people use it since a lot of people nowadays do, but I would advise you not to..

Reminds me of an anecdote from Ayatullah Mojtahedi [QS], who once used to jokingly mock in his public akhlaq classes, those pilgrims who return from hajj, and then when they want to do riya`, they swear by the "sang-e hajar" ("hajar" being rock in Arabic, and "sang" being rock in Farsi) - if somebody, especially a talebe (hawza student), uses this phrases, it only reveals there illiterateness!

Haha thats actually a really cute story ^_^

Okay so now I know and will stick to the term ahadith.. :)

I was actually soo amazed when I learned that only 18% of the Islamic population spoke Arabic! At first I said, WOW thats really bad that so many can't speak the tounge of the religion but then I realized and was proud because it also showed the absolute cultural and geographical impact of Islam.

I wish and hope to speak Arabic soon in the future! I will Inshallah when I go off to university I will take Arabic as an alternative.. I am hoping to take either world religions or Islamic studies, i am not entirely sure yet and i am not entirely sure if my parents will be okay with it either lol..

I also had another question, if you don't mind me asking, who are the people in the picture in your signature? Don't worry if I catch you laughing again, this one also might be obvios :lol:... I realized though that the man in the bottom left of the picture is also the avatar of the user "doobybrother" and so i kinda figured they must be sort of well known.. Thanks -

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I also had another question, if you don't mind me asking, who are the people in the picture in your signature? Don't worry if I catch you laughing again, this one also might be obvios ... I realized though that the man in the bottom left of the picture is also the avatar of the user "doobybrother" and so i kinda figured they must be sort of well known.. Thanks -

They are all Divine scholars (alim rabbani) that have been true gems who lived in our era. We could write voluminous books on each of their celestial lives, but briefly: The first on the left is Imam Khomeini [QS], who was the leader of the Islamic Revolution in Iran, a revolution that changed the face of tashayyu (revived it), and also the face of the world (for the first time, brought Shia Islam on the global stage). He is often recognised as primarily or even only a political figure, however, his political career was only a manifestation of his spiritual wayfaring (contrary to Nasr's comment, if anybody, _he_ traversed the fourth and final spiritual journey [safar arba`a]). His notable mystical works include (influenced me): Forty Hadith, a commentary on forty ahadith of the ma`sumeen [AS] which is a common custom amongst scholars; and Adab As-Salat, a book which delves into and reveals some of the "secrets" (asrar) of prayers. The scholar on the right is Allameh Tabataba`i [QS], who under the tutelage of Ayatullah Qadhi [QS] also reached an unprecedented level in `irfan. He was _the_ leading authority of both the "sayr afaqi" (i.e. philosophy) and "sayr anfusi" (i.e. irfan). He delved more into practical irfan (amali) than theoretical irfan (nazari), and his endavours in philosophy and tafsir of The Holy Qur`an similarly left huge mark in religion. His notable works include: Tafsir Al-Mizan, a monumental, unique and revolutionary tafsir of the Qur`an; and Bidayah Al-Hikmah - the first ever philosophy text books for hawza students (pre-Tabatabai, falsafa used to be taught underground, not publicly, and there was no proper study book, it was taught from the magnum opus' of the previous eminent sages). The scholar in the middle is the prodigy of the two aforementioned scholars: Shahid Mutahhari [QS], who studied deeply under both Imam Khomeini [QS] and Allameh Tabataba`i [QS]. Ayatullah Mutahhari [QS] absorbed true knowledge (ma`rifah) from his teachers who understood well the higher realities of religion and was then very active on the social, political, cultural and religious scene. He wrote and lectured effectively for the masses (`aam), whereas Tabataba`i for example mainly dedicated himself to the limited elite (khawas). He was way ahead of his time, addressing in an intellectually satisfying manner many issues which really challenged religion (evolution, inadequacy of certain philosophical notions, politics, marxism, etc). He was unmatched in debates, so naturally being such an unique asset, the opposition assassinated him purely because of his triumphant intellectual jihad shortly after the victory of the Islamic Revolution. He has authored many, many works, a lot of which you can find online as short articles or book on different issues (see al-islam.org)..

Edited by The Persian Shah

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They are all Divine scholars (alim rabbani) that have been true gems who lived in our era. We could write voluminous books on each of their celestial lives, but briefly: The first on the left is Imam Khomeini [QS], who was the leader of the Islamic Revolution in Iran, a revolution that changed the face of tashayyu (revived it), and also the face of the world (for the first time, brought Shia Islam on the global stage). He is often recognised as primarily or even only a political figure, however, his political career was only a manifestation of his spiritual wayfaring (contrary to Nasr's comment, if anybody, _he_ traversed the fourth and final spiritual journey [safar arba`a]). His notable mystical works include (influenced me): Forty Hadith, a commentary on forty ahadith of the ma`sumeen [AS] which is a common custom amongst scholars; and Adab As-Salat, a book which delves into and reveals some of the "secrets" (asrar) of prayers. The scholar on the right is Allameh Tabataba`i [QS], who under the tutelage of Ayatullah Qadhi [QS] also reached an unprecedented level in `irfan. He was _the_ leading authority of both the "sayr afaqi" (i.e. philosophy) and "sayr anfusi" (i.e. irfan). He delved more into practical irfan (amali) than theoretical irfan (nazari), and his endavours in philosophy and tafsir of The Holy Qur`an similarly left huge mark in religion. His notable works include: Tafsir Al-Mizan, a monumental, unique and revolutionary tafsir of the Qur`an; and Bidayah Al-Hikmah - the first ever philosophy text books for hawza students (pre-Tabatabai, falsafa used to be taught underground, not publicly, and there was no proper study book, it was taught from the magnum opus' of the previous eminent sages). The scholar in the middle is the prodigy of the two aforementioned scholars: Shahid Mutahhari [QS], who studied deeply under both Imam Khomeini [QS] and Allameh Tabataba`i [QS]. Ayatullah Mutahhari [QS] absorbed true knowledge (ma`rifah) from his teachers who understood well the higher realities of religion and was then very active on the social, political, cultural and religious scene. He wrote and lectured effectively for the masses (`aam), whereas Tabataba`i for example mainly dedicated himself to the limited elite (khawas). He was way ahead of his time, addressing in an intellectually satisfying manner many issues which really challenged religion (evolution, inadequacy of certain philosophical notions, politics, marxism, etc). He was unmatched in debates, so naturally being such an unique asset, the opposition assassinated him purely because of his triumphant intellectual jihad shortly after the victory of the Islamic Revolution. He has authored many, many works, a lot of which you can find online as short articles or book on different issues (see al-islam.org)..

Thanks for the detailed answer! I see why one would be proud of them now. I will definitely look them up and read their teachings. I never knew ma'rifah was still able to be attained. It would be nice to read books by them, if you have any recommendations I could buy. I like to read hard copies just because of the fact that I can make my own markings in them.

I also have another question. I write notes and have sticky notes and highlights in a copy of a translation of the Qur'an (by Abdullah Yusuf Ali) and my aunt saw it and said I should not be writing on the Word of God. I looked up on the internet if it is bad to make marking in the Holy Book and people mentioned that if it is a translation, it is okay because it is not really the Qur'an, but if it is in Arabic then one should not.

I have three copies of the Qur'an, and two are but translations. I have only ever written in one copy of a translation, and the other two are kept with respect at the highest level on my bookshelf, above all other books where it cannot be reached by children or damaged by clumsy people like me.

Please let me know your advice. Thanks.

Khuda Hafiz

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Dude HOW can Kaffir ismailis(LLLLLL) be muslims

Read comments of Mr Hakeem007 to a shia user named "Ahlaybayt"

For those who dont understand urdu hakeem (Lanati) is saying that Shias(12vers) and others who pray salaah 5 times a day by bowing down are like dogs (Astaghfirullah)........Didnt Prophet(saww) and Ali(as) prayed 5 times a day by bowing down???

Ismailis are kaffir just like their kaafir leader aga khan(LLLLLLLLL)

-----------------

those who disagree wid me please read comments of mrhakeem007 on that link

Edited by courage

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(salam)

Courage,

Can you please use better style for communication. This is a research forum. Our goal here is to explain in a clear academic fashion how the school of ahlul bayt is correct (guided) and superior vs all other sects.

If the only thing you know is how to be abusive, then maybe this is not the forum for you.

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(salam)

Courage,

Can you please use better style for communication. This is a research forum. Our goal here is to explain in a clear academic fashion how the school of ahlul bayt is correct (guided) and superior vs all other sects.

If the only thing you know is how to be abusive, then maybe this is not the forum for you.

(salam)

I think the video was enough to prove his point :unsure:

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(salam)

I think the video was enough to prove his point :unsure:

Well, I've seen Sunnis and Shias dancing to musics in mixed gathering. Are these people kafir too?

He could at least state that music is haram, dancing in mix company is haram, women and men mingling is haram, following someone religious tradition is haram and so forth.

Post hadeeths, or verse from the Quran or fatwa from the marjas or something.

That is how someone can learn. Not by being abusive.

That was the point I was trying to make.

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The Agha Khan claims the noor was passed on to him by his father.

His mother was a kafir to begin with, his father was his wifes second husband or something. These guys gamble. They wine & dine.

How on earth are they the righteous leaders of Islam ?

THIS IS A MOCKERY OF IMAMATE.

The agha khan if he claims to be the imam is a clear KAFIR.

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Well, I've seen Sunnis and Shias dancing to musics in mixed gathering. Are these people kafir too?

He could at least state that music is haram, dancing in mix company is haram, women and men mingling is haram, following someone religious tradition is haram and so forth.

Post hadeeths, or verse from the Quran or fatwa from the marjas or something.

That is how someone can learn. Not by being abusive.

That was the point I was trying to make.

(salam)

I agree with the points you have mentioned

However, I am interested in seeing those videos you mentioned about Shi`a dancing in mixed gathering

Please don't provide any videos with Sunnis, they aren't of any weight.

Thank you, wassalam

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Well, I've seen Sunnis and Shias dancing to musics in mixed gathering. Are these people kafir too?

Sure, people of all sects sin. The difference is though that if some group of Shi`as are dancing in a mixed gathering, they aren't do it as a religious function, it's just them dancing in a mixed gathering. I can't imagine (God forbid) you'd ever find a group of bi-hijabi women and men doing some Indian dance in front of a religious gathering at an Islamic center in order to celebrate `Eid al-Ghadir or something, for instance.

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Sure, people of all sects sin. The difference is though that if some group of Shi`as are dancing in a mixed gathering, they aren't do it as a religious function, it's just them dancing in a mixed gathering. I can't imagine (God forbid) you'd ever find a group of bi-hijabi women and men doing some Indian dance in front of a religious gathering at an Islamic center in order to celebrate `Eid al-Ghadir or something, for instance.

Of course not. The video is shocking to me also. But someone need to point this out to the Ismaili community that what they are doing is wrong/haram and that they are not following Islam correctly.

Then the next step would be to point out how the heck someone who claims to be the hadhir Imam not care the direction his community is taking and the Islamic laws are willfully being ignored and disobeyed.

And then you wait to see what their response is.

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(salam)

Did u guys saw comments of ismaili guy "mrhakeemoo7" on that youtube link??

If you dont know urdu then i have already translated a part of his blasphemous comment in english.

Well he is saying that those who pray salaah are like dogs

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Dude HOW can Kaffir ismailis(LLLLLL) be muslims

Read comments of Mr Hakeem007 to a shia user named "Ahlaybayt"

For those who dont understand urdu hakeem (Lanati) is saying that Shias(12vers) and others who pray salaah 5 times a day by bowing down are like dogs (Astaghfirullah)........Didnt Prophet(saww) and Ali(as) prayed 5 times a day by bowing down???

Ismailis are kaffir just like their kaafir leader aga khan(LLLLLLLLL)

-----------------

those who disagree wid me please read comments of mrhakeem007 on that link

(salam)

Did u guys saw comments of ismaili guy "mrhakeemoo7" on that youtube link??

If you dont know urdu then i have already translated a part of his blasphemous comment in english.

Well he is saying that those who pray salaah are like dogs

Dear Mr Courage,

You can call me kaafir as many times as you'd like. Go for it, but I will always know the relationship I have with Allah that no one can ever separate. I know I am Muslim, and that's all that matters to me. When I was in kindergarten, I got taught a line in school I will never forget:

"Sticks and stones can break my bones but names will never hurt me."

Speak as you'd like, but remember you will not get your point across with ignorant speech.

Khuda Hafiz

(wasalam)

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I have knowledge that the Ismaili's pray only 3 times. A muslim following the tradition of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Islam, is supposed to pray 5 times a day which is considered as a Wajib act upon attaining puberty. So, why would you pray only 3 times out of the prescribed 5 times a day ? Logically, wouldn't this constitute as a non-islamic belief ?

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You guys ever hear about this? Apparently it seems not too long ago the Agha Khan filed a lawsuit against two of his own followers in a Canadian court. The "crime"? They were publishing his pronouncements so he put this forward as copyright infringement...

http://www.ismailipages.com/328-aga-khan-files-copyright-lawsuit-in-canadian-federal-court.html

I mean, seriously?! Suing his own followers in a kafir court run by non-Islamic law for publishing what would essentially be for the Isma`ilis "hadith"??? My surprise that anyone can take this guy and his racket of a religion seriously only increases.

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This is probably about money. He may want a cut in this deal. I wouldn't be surprised if this is settled out of the court. Religion to them is kinda like a family business. Without exclusive right to interpret the religion...what else do they (Aga Khan and his family) have?

The Aga Khan states the defendants are profiting from the sales of the book in four parts with each part being sold for $50 CAD with the MP3 recording being given as a gift to a purchaser
.

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This is probably about money. He may want a cut in this deal. I wouldn't be surprised if this is settled out of the court. Religion to them is kinda like a family business. Without exclusive right to interpret the religion...what else do they (Aga Khan and his family) have?

.

(salam)

Its been a while since this issue has risen, and every detail has been also announced in updates in Jamatkhanas. The fact was not about the Aga Khan wanting money, the fact was his murid was being unfaithful. Without permission from the Ismaili Tariqah and Religious Education Board (ITREB), this book was sold in large amounts (i.e. $50.00) and farmans should not be sold at such a high rate (copies of farman books are available for 1 dollar in jamatkhanas if not free). Since it was not confirmed by the ITREB, the Imam did not authorize the sale of these books. The book was sold "undercover" and by unofficial websites. As well as this, the Imam had sent him multiple letters telling him to stop selling the books, and since he disregarded all the letters and continued anyways, the Imam took legal action.

The fact is such that the Imam does not want the Farmans to change by multiple interpretations but wants to maintain them as primary resources <as said by the Imam and on paper>. If others rewrite/edit his works, they would no longer be considerable primary resources...

Peace & Love

Khuda Hafiz

(wasalam)

Edited by princevisram

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