Jump to content


- - - -


Photo
- - - - -

Hazrat Umme Kulsoom Binte Ali[a.s]


26 replies to this topic

#1 shifa zahra

shifa zahra
  • Basic Members
  • 2 posts
  • Religion:MUSLIM [SHIA]
  • Interests:reading, cooking ,networking

Posted 19 January 2011 - 05:11 AM

I wanted to know that is there any refrence in any shia's books that"HAZRAT UMME KULSOOM binte ALI [A.S]got married to umer-bin khatab!!!!!!!!! plz do tell me i'm so confused about it. IF so ,then what was the reason behind it??????????????

Edited by shifa zahra, 19 January 2011 - 05:13 AM.


#2 YA_HUSEYN

YA_HUSEYN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 110 posts
  • Location:Azerbaijan
  • Interests:reading, sports

Posted 19 January 2011 - 05:52 AM

I wanted to know that is there any refrence in any shia's books that"HAZRAT UMME KULSOOM binte ALI [A.S]got married to umer-bin khatab!!!!!!!!! plz do tell me i'm so confused about it. IF so ,then what was the reason behind it??????????????


(salam)

The fact is that Hazrat Umme Kulsoom NEVER got married to the 2-d Khalif. It is a myth. Details can be found here:

http://answering-ans...um/en/index.php

#3 Ali_Hussain

Ali_Hussain

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,743 posts

Posted 19 January 2011 - 06:32 AM

(salam)

The fact is that Hazrat Umme Kulsoom NEVER got married to the 2-d Khalif. It is a myth. Details can be found here:

http://answering-ans...um/en/index.php


(salam)

brother, I think you may be mistaken, bro Nader Zaveri wrote a good article about the marriage and proved using ahadith that the marriage did in fact occure, though Imam Ali (as) had originally opposed it, he (as) changed his mind after Umer spoke to his uncle al-Abbas.

you can read full article here

http://revivingalisl...mm-kulthum.html

#4 Bhooka_Bhairiya

Bhooka_Bhairiya

    Ayatullah Talibani

  • Unregistered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,127 posts
  • Location:In the hearts of my loyal fans at shiachat
  • Religion:EX most hard core usooli

Posted 19 January 2011 - 06:35 AM

I wanted to know that is there any refrence in any shia's books that"HAZRAT UMME KULSOOM binte ALI [A.S]got married to umer-bin khatab!!!!!!!!! plz do tell me i'm so confused about it. IF so ,then what was the reason behind it??????????????


Yeah, it's true. We have a chapter in kafi about it. I'll post it here:

ÈÇÈ)

* (ÊÒæíÌ Çã ßáËæã)
*

9536 - 1 - Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÇÈä ÃÈí ÚãíÑ¡ Úä åÔÇã Èä ÓÇáã¡ æÍãÇÏ¡ Úä ÒÑÇÑÉ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå (Ú) Ýí ÊÒæíÌ Ãã ßáËæã ÝÞÇá: Åä Ðáß ÝÑÌ ÛÕÈäÇå. (3)

9537 - 2 - ãÍãÏ Èä ÃÈí ÚãíÑ¡ Úä åÔÇã Èä ÓÇáã¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå (Ú) ÞÇá: áãÇ ÎØÈ Åáíå ÞÇá áå ÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä: ÅäåÇ ÕÈíÉ ÞÇá: ÝáÞì ÇáÚÈÇÓ ÝÞÇá áå: ãÇáí ÃÈí ÈÃÓ¿ ÞÇá: æãÇÐÇß¿ ÞÇá:

ÎØÈÊ Åáì ÇÈä ÇÎíß ÝÑÏäí ÃãÇ æÇááå áÇÚæÑä ÒãÒã (4) æáÇ ÃÏÚ áßã ãßÑãÉ ÅáÇ åÏãÊåÇæ áÇÞíãä Úáíå ÔÇåÏíä ÈÃäå ÓÑÞ æáÇÞØÚä íãíäå ÝÃÊÇå ÇáÚÈÇÓ ÝÃÎÈÑå æÓÃáå Ãä íÌÚá ÇáÇãÑ Åáíå ÝÌÚáå Åáíå (
5).

http://www.al-shia.o...afi-5/14.htm#14

#5 YA_HUSEYN

YA_HUSEYN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 110 posts
  • Location:Azerbaijan
  • Interests:reading, sports

Posted 19 January 2011 - 07:16 AM

(salam)

brother, I think you may be mistaken, bro Nader Zaveri wrote a good article about the marriage and proved using ahadith that the marriage did in fact occure, though Imam Ali (as) had originally opposed it, he (as) changed his mind after Umer spoke to his uncle al-Abbas.

you can read full article here

http://revivingalisl...mm-kulthum.html


(salam)

You mean that the Imam of the Time changed his mind after the murder of his wife and his son to be born had spoken to his uncle??? I think this approach leaves much to be desired. I looked through the article though.
  • Robin Hood likes this

#6 Yahya2004

Yahya2004

    burnout

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 586 posts
  • Religion:ماكو

Posted 19 January 2011 - 07:53 AM

(salam)

You mean that the Imam of the Time changed his mind after the murder of his wife and his son to be born had spoken to his uncle??? I think this approach leaves much to be desired. I looked through the article though.


(wasalam)

Shame you didn't catch that al-Abbas in this context was al-Abbas the Prohet's (SAW) uncle and not Abu al-Fadl.

#7 YA_HUSEYN

YA_HUSEYN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 110 posts
  • Location:Azerbaijan
  • Interests:reading, sports

Posted 19 January 2011 - 08:13 AM

(wasalam)

Shame you didn't catch that al-Abbas in this context was al-Abbas the Prohet's (SAW) uncle and not Abu al-Fadl.



With all my respect, from where did you take that I did not catch who al-Abbas was in this context? I hope you do not intend to say that Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã opposed the marriage but after the 2-nd Khalif spoke to al-Abbas (the uncle of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) he (Imam Ali) changes his mind.

#8 Super Cool Samraat

Super Cool Samraat

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 70 posts
  • Religion:Islam-Shia
  • Interests:Sports, Games, Nature Documentaries & Research,Basketball,Prehistoric life

Posted 19 January 2011 - 09:09 AM

Well from my understanding after reading what is said on this following link I am unable to accept this Nikah thing

http://www.answering...um/en/chap2.php

Now even if it did happen what points do the people who preasent this before us acheive over us or what do they want to proove. Ayesha Married the prophet but she was unable to bear him any children. Even if Umar Married Umm-e-Kulsoom what are we supposed to do about it? Also Ayesha's rank is nothing as compared to that of Khadija. Also logically speaking there was not only just one woman of the same name in the whole world or specifically at that time. Also I want to know that from Umm-e-Kulsoom's own narrations of rega rds to her own life does she ever make mention what so ever of it?

Now regarding the link I posted What ever is stated on it is unnaccaptable and self disgracing for those who beleive in it.

#9 Ali_Hussain

Ali_Hussain

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,743 posts

Posted 19 January 2011 - 09:14 AM

Well from my understanding after reading what is said on this following link I am unable to accept this Nikah thing

http://www.answering...um/en/chap2.php

Now even if it did happen what points do the people who preasent this before us acheive over us or what do they want to proove. Ayesha Married the prophet but she was unable to bear him any children. Even if Umar Married Umm-e-Kulsoom what are we supposed to do about it? Also Ayesha's rank is nothing as compared to that of Khadija. Also logically speaking there was not only just one woman of the same name in the whole world or specifically at that time. Also I want to know that from Umm-e-Kulsoom's own narrations of rega rds to her own life does she ever make mention what so ever of it?

Now regarding the link I posted What ever is stated on it is unnaccaptable and self disgracing for those who beleive in it.


why so? I think the author if the article you posted said it himself at the end

TAKE HOME MESSAGE TO THE NASIBIS: IF YOU BELIEVE THAT UMM KULTHAM (as) BINTE ALI (as) WAS MARRIED TO 'UMAR YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT 'UMAR WAS ALSO A PERVERT OF THE FIRST ORDER. THERE ARE NO "IFS" OR "BUTS" IN THIS. THESE SAME TRADITIONS YOU CITE TO BASE YOUR BELIEF IN THE MARRIAGE ALSO CATEGORICALLY NOTE THE METHOD OF THE 'COURTSHIP'. IN THEM 'UMAR COMMITS ACTIONS THAT STAMP HIM AS A RESOLUTE PERVERT.


Edited by ShahHussain, 19 January 2011 - 09:14 AM.


#10 Yahya2004

Yahya2004

    burnout

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 586 posts
  • Religion:ماكو

Posted 20 January 2011 - 06:04 AM

With all my respect, from where did you take that I did not catch who al-Abbas was in this context? I hope you do not intend to say that Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã opposed the marriage but after the 2-nd Khalif spoke to al-Abbas (the uncle of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) he (Imam Ali) changes his mind.


(salam)

My Apologies bro,

Read your post with a different break down of the sentence and hence thought your reference to Mohsin (as) was to al-Abbas (yet to be born son).

My mistake.

#11 muhibb-ali

muhibb-ali

    ALI

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,098 posts
  • Location:Mumbai
  • Religion:Muhibb
  • Interests:Quran
    Hadees

Posted 20 January 2011 - 06:54 AM

Salam.

A basic question.

The killer of Masooma (Sa) i.e. Umar becomes a Kafir.
How did Imam Ali (as) marry his daughter to a Kafir?

Wassalam

#12 YA_HUSEYN

YA_HUSEYN

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 110 posts
  • Location:Azerbaijan
  • Interests:reading, sports

Posted 21 January 2011 - 02:18 AM

Salam.

A basic question.

The killer of Masooma (Sa) i.e. Umar becomes a Kafir.
How did Imam Ali (as) marry his daughter to a Kafir?

Wassalam


(salam)
The main point in this whole matter of "marriage" is for the sunnis to "prove" that Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã had no problem with the 3 Khalifs. Logically speaking, if you marry your daughter to someone, even if you do not like him, at least he must not be an enemy of Allah. So we have to accept now that the Imam Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã forgot everything: Fadak, the nail of the burning door, the slap in the face (of Bibi Fatima) and all other "good" deeds, let alone the usurpation of his Khilafa and ....... married his daughter (from Bibi Fatima) to the "great" Sahaba? How do we explain this? Taqiyya? So why didn't Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã observe taqiyya when they wanted to exhume (dig) the grave of Bibi Fatima?
This is why i can not accept this "marriage". Yes, some Ulema can hold a different view. But this is not fiqh but aqeeda and we are not obliged to follow them in this.

#13 zakzaki

zakzaki

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 787 posts
  • Religion:Islam
  • Interests:Al Mutao khayrun minaz Zina and Triple Talaq

Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:42 AM

This has been refuted many times both logically and its authenticity.

Logically I do not know if any great grandfather married a great grandchild. Umar was too old to marry Umme Kulthum who was a minor herself during Imam Ali (as) death.

Moreover, Prophet (pbuh) turned down Umar offer to marry Fatima (as) so why would Imam Ali (as) marry his youngest minor daughter to a person who angered Fatima (as).

There is no Sahih sunni hadith in the Sahih sitta to prove of this marriage. Can any sunni bring any of their authentic hadith regarding this.

#14 Aabiss_Shakari

Aabiss_Shakari

    http://www.abubakr.org

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,379 posts
  • Location:Shia Chat
  • Religion:True Shia Twelver Islam

Posted 21 January 2011 - 08:36 AM

Hishaam bin Saalim from Abee `Abd Allaah (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) he said: “When he (`Umar) address (proposed) to him (`Alee). Ameer Al-Mu’mineen (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) said to him “She is a child”. He said: So he (`Umar) met Al-`Abbaas and he said to him: “What is wrong with me? Is there a problem with me?” He (Abbaas) said: “And what is the matter?” He (Umar) said: “I addressed (proposed) before your brother's son (nephew), and he denied me. I swear by Allaah, I will fill the zamzam, leave no honor for you without being destroyed. I will bring two witnesses upon him and (prove) he (is guilty) of theft, and I will cut his right (hand)!” Then Al-`Abbaas went to him (Imaam `Alee) and gave him the news (of what happened). And he (Abbaas) asked him (`Alee) to put the matter to him (Abbaas). And he (`Alee) agreed.”
Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 5, pg. 346, hadeeth # 2
Grading:
1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good)
à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42
2. Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a SaHeeH Sanad
à Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with `Umar, pg. 28
à MaHaaDiraat fee Al-`Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696


This is quite ridiculous that Imam Ali (a.s) can be forced to give his daughter into marriage to Umer bin Khatab. So Ahl ul Bait a.s were so weak that they could be forced and coerced to do anything? Why Imam Hussain (a.s) fought against Yazeed (laeen). Giving daughter to a hypocrite is not less than the tragedy of Karbala.

The farj which is stolen from Ahl ul bait a.s is "Umm e Kulthoom Bint e Abu Bakar" was daughter of Asma Bint e Amees widow of Abu Bakar.

Asma was married to Ali (a.s) after the death of Abu Bakar.

One more question. Why Abdullah Bin Umer time and again asked Yazeed (laeen) to release Ameer Mukhtar with whose sister Abdullah Bin Umer was married and Yazeed (Laeen) released him. It was son because Abdullah Bin Umer was among those persons who had observed the Baiyat of Yazeed (Laeen). But how many times the same Abdullah Bin Umer asked Yazeed (laeen) to release Umme Kulthoom bint e Ali (a.s) (allegedly his step mother) after the tragedy of Karbala? Not a single time. So it means he had no relation with Umme Kulthoom binte Ali a.s.

#15 shifa zahra

shifa zahra
  • Basic Members
  • 2 posts
  • Religion:MUSLIM [SHIA]
  • Interests:reading, cooking ,networking

Posted 21 January 2011 - 09:57 AM

oh! my confusion is still there !!~ it is written in sme books that she got marreid to umer bin khatab n sme dn't admit it !~ then which book is authentic . u knw one sunni said me that hw u people can degrade those khalifas when ur IMAM married her daughter wth him!! n i just replied him that wood can never become crocodile even it remain in ocean for hudreds of yearz !!!!!!! but there should be a single point which should b acceptable to all of us!!!!

#16 Nooriya

Nooriya

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 72 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:54 AM

Shahzadi Umm e Kulsoom s.a. was the wife of Janabe Muhammed bin Jaffer bin Abi talib (as).

#17 Shia Future

Shia Future
  • Basic Members
  • 35 posts
  • Location:Canada Toronto
  • Religion:Shia Islam 4 Lyf
  • Interests:Internet Forums

Posted 22 January 2011 - 10:33 PM

Salam,

I have been wondering this also. Please give books and further research we could go into


#18 Nader Zaveri

Nader Zaveri

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,585 posts
  • Interests:http://www.revivingalislam.com/

Posted 23 January 2011 - 02:01 AM

This is quite ridiculous that Imam Ali (a.s) can be forced to give his daughter into marriage to Umer bin Khatab. So Ahl ul Bait a.s were so weak that they could be forced and coerced to do anything? Why Imam Hussain (a.s) fought against Yazeed (laeen). Giving daughter to a hypocrite is not less than the tragedy of Karbala.

Did you happen to skip over Imaam Al-Hussayn (as) ? And what about the other Imaams, they practiced taqiyyah with caliph of the time. Also, if you accept the incident of the door, then you must accept that Imaam `Alee (as) sat around while Sayyidah Faatimah (SA) was getting the door slammed on her. Why didn't Imaam `Alee (as) get the sword and slice his throat right then and there?

P.S. - Yes, I know of the hadeeth about the Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã being patient to Imaam `Alee (as) because of what will happen to him afterwards, but you can even use that hadeeth for him giving his daughter to `Umar because he was forced.

I have been wondering this also. Please give books and further research we could go into

I have written an article, going only through the narrations of the Imaam (as), I show the authenticity of the narrations as well. I do not focus on sunni books, but I focused on the words of our Imaams (as).

Umar's Marriage to Umm Kulthum

I also add scholarly sources as well.

(salam)

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 23 January 2011 - 02:02 AM.


#19 Super Cool Samraat

Super Cool Samraat

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 70 posts
  • Religion:Islam-Shia
  • Interests:Sports, Games, Nature Documentaries & Research,Basketball,Prehistoric life

Posted 05 February 2011 - 04:20 AM

I also add scholarly sources as well.



Define and elaborate what you mean by scholarly?
At least I hope that in this attempt of yours you do nothing stupid and blur the lines between blasphemy and scholarly. Besides the tradition regarding how Umar(la) was Introduced to her is so vulgar that as a self respecting Shia I could not add it to my beliefs, regardless of how you may want me to do so. Besides even if it is true then what are we supposed to do about it. May I know on what date it happened and what was the Dowry consisting of and who witnessed the Nikah actually take place?

Oh yes and actually the point raised from our side regarding if Abdullah Bin Umar ever pressed for the release of his stepmother is actually quite though provoking from our side.

Also If Umar Married Umm-e-Kulsoom then what points does it make a fool like your self score over us. I mean the prophet him self married Ayesha but it had more negative consequences and in the end the Dog's of Hawaaib barked at her and she was on the verge of disgrace in front of all the Muslims. Also didn't she not terribly disrupt the funeral of Imam Hassan in such a way as that she will never be forgiven till the end of time. Besides no progeny continued from Ayesha and she is not important or even superior to either Khadija or Fatima or other righteous wives like Umm-e Salamah. So best for you to trash her Idol while you still have time to salvage what ever is left of your reputation.

Also Nader you are a Gujrati I guess and Most Probably a Memon and they are a 3rd class bunch of people, and definitely you must be involved in Dr Israar's or Zakir Naiks Organisation or some thing like that. But you know what it is best for you to avoid meddling in our affairs or attacking our beleifs or holy persons and you should by now realise that you are a hopeless Kaffir. Also not to sound racist but the truth is when Gujratis get involved in religion they create disaster by mixing it with business and their mentality.

Plkease accept the fact that your false Idols of Umar, Usman, Ayesha, Abu Bakr Muawiyaa etc are just shams and are not that innocent.

Also why don't you make sufficient reference to Sahaba we hold in High regard like Salman-e- Farsi or Abuzar or Ammar-e-Yasir etc. I barely find any Sunnis talking about them at all. Why is this so. Here we openly discuss all what every one did both the good and the bad. Regardless of who it is about which means we clearly state that Abu Bakr Denied Writing Material on the Prophets Death Bed and what he did to the daughter of holy prophet afterwards, or the misbehavior of Ayesha and why she went to war with the commander of the faith full and the consequences it begot as countless Muslims and companions were killed as a result of her rash misguided actions.
Also may I know what benefit you got from whom you are working for if any ? And is there a living in it?
Also why don't people like you ever allow us to express our views at all?

Edited by Super Cool Samraat, 05 February 2011 - 04:28 AM.


#20 inshaAllah

inshaAllah

    Taking a break

  • Admins
  • 6,907 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 05 February 2011 - 07:32 AM

Response from some Scholars regarding this topic:



Office of Ayatullah Sistani


In the name of Allah the Most High

1) We believe that this story is untrue and the best proof for its being false is the various narrations that contradict one another. In addition, historical evidence considers this to be normally impossible.

2) The very incident itself proves that such an event has not taken place.

=====

Ahl-ul-bayt World Assembly

Salam

Please visit the following links:

http://imamshirazi.com/history.html

http://www.imamreza....eza.php?id=1732

Regards

======

Imam Shirazi website:

 

Question: Did the daughter of Imam Ali (as) marry Umar?

Is there a hadith about the daughter of Imam Ali (as) who was asked in marriage by the second caliph Umar? Did a marriage take place at all?

Answer

Bismillah al-Rahmaan al-Raheem

The short answer to this question is yes there are hadiths that attempt to suggest that Umar bin al-Khattaab asked for the daughter of Imam Ali (as). The hadiths that are reported in such sunny hadith books as the book of al-Estee'aab by Ibn Abd-el-Birr, the book of Taareekh Baghdaad by al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadi, and the book of al-Esaabah by Ibn Hajar are quite clearly false and un-authentic; not only on the basis of the narrators of the hadiths, but also on the basis of the content of the hadiths.

In one hadith "Umar asks Imam Ali (as) for his daughter in marriage, and Imam Ali (as) asks him to leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to go to Umar, and when she arrives Umar asks her to marry him, and places his hand on her leg and uncovers her leg!!!!!! She immediately says to him you do this to me! If you were not the ruler I would have broken your nose. And she leaves the room. She tells Imam Ali of what happened and added 'You sent me to a vile old man.' But Ali nevertheless marries her to him!" al-Estee'aab 4/1954.

In another hadith "Umar asks Imam Ali (as) for his daughter in marriage, and Imam Ali (as) asks him to leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to make herself beautiful to go to Umar!!! And when Umar saw her he placed his hand on her leg and asked her to marry him . . . when she came back to her father Imam Ali asked her what did Umar tell you, she replied Umar kissed me and placed his hand on my leg and asked me to marry him. Then Ali married her to him!!!!!" Taareekh Baghdaad 6/182.

Ibn Hajar reports in his book al-Esaabah that "Umar asks Imam Ali (as) for his daughter Umm Kolthum (as) in marriage, and Imam Ali (as) asks him to leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to go to Umar, and when she arrives Umar placed his hand on her leg and uncovers her leg!!!!!! The daughter of Imam Ali (as) says to him if you were not the ruler I would have gouged your eyes . . . ." al-Esaabah 4/321.

The behaviour of Umar according to such hadiths has been so fouls and abhorrent that many sunny scholars have been put to shame. Because such behaviour is not only disgraceful, but it is also totally haram according to Islam. One of the top sunny scholars, Ibn Jawzey, states in his book "Tathkirat Khawas al-Ummah" p 321: "And by Allah this is vile and despicable, even if she was a slave Umar may not have done this to her, and furthermore in accordance with the unanimous consensus of the scholars of the Muslims, the touching of a non-Mahram is not allowed, then how this hadith can be attributed to Umar?"

As you can see these hadiths are totally false and any respectable and honourable Muslim would not send his daughter to the house of another man or agree to such abhorrent behaviour let alone agreeing to marrying his daughter. These hadiths have been placed by the enemies of Imam Ali (as) and the enemies of the Ahl-ul-Bayt (as) in order to demean Imam Ali and his household (as) and give some status to Umar. Such a marriage certainly did not take place at all.

Imam Ali the son of Abi_Talib peace be upon them, had two daughters from Lady Fatimah al-Zahra' peace be upon her, the beloved daughter of the holy Prophet Muhammad may Allah bless him and his pure family. They were Zaynab and Umm_Kolthoum peace be upon them.

Lady Zaynab married her cousin Abdullah the son of Ja'far ibn Abi_Talib - also known as Ja'far al-Tayyar. Ja'far al-Tayyar, who on the orders of the prophet headed the Muslims who migrated to Abyssinia , is the brother of Imam Ali peace be upon them.

Lady Umm_Kolthoum married her cousin Muhammad/Sa'id the son of Aqeel ibn Abi_Talib. Aqeel ibn Abi Talib is the elder brother of Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib.

=====




Office of Ayatullah Fazil Lankarani

In the name of Allah, the Most High

Salamun alaikum



1-4- There are different reports in this regard. According to one of the reports, Umar asked for the hand of Umm Kulthum but Imam Ali (a.s.) rejected him but then Umar sent Ibn-e Abbas to the Commander of the Faithful to get his consent for his daughter's marriage with Umar. By sending Ibn-e Abbas to Imam Ali, Umar wanted to see that if Imam Ali (a.s.) was going to reject Ibne Abbas, he would then find a few people to give a false testimony against Ali (a.s.) and he would then be able to sentence Ali to some punishment and accuse him of some sin, so he would remove him. Seeing this, Ali (a.s.) agreed to Umm Kulthum's marriage with Umar but there are indications which suggest that Umar did not live long to hold a wedding ceremony and live with Umm Kulthum. He died before he could wed.

======

Office of Ayatullah Saeed Al-Hakeem

In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most merciful and Praise to Him.



The marriage of Umm kelthom to Omar bin alkhattab is debatable between the shia researchers. The Islamic caliphate was enforced after the death of the messenger of Allah on Muslims by force. Imam Ali (peace be upon him) did not fight the regime with force and weapons because of his fear on the Islamic religion as he was compelled to deal with the ruling power, he might have been forced to approve the marriage of his daughter for a particular reason.

We want to draw your attention to an important fact. This marriage – if it took place – must have happened in compelling circumstances as Omar was older than Umm kelthom's father and not an equal to her in linage since the tribe of bany hashim is higher in the rank of nobility and superior than bany addy, Omar's tribe plus the fact that Omar was known by his fierce heart, hardship and violence. There is no equality between the two So Imam Ali must have been forced to accept such a marriage if it had actually happened and we do not know the current circumstances then.

As you know the caliphs assumes the position of leadership unjustly but this does not make them outside Islam which is one of marriage conditions.

May Allah guide you to please him.

#21 ZulfiSaifedDinFsblh

ZulfiSaifedDinFsblh

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 79 posts
  • Religion:True Islam Original Shia free from cultural innovations

Posted 05 February 2011 - 08:07 AM

An answer can be found in "The Life of Fathima Zahra" from Baqir Sharif al Qurashi, Ansariyan Publications
http://www.coiradio....atima/index.htm
chapter "the pure Progeny" page 147
I made a copy past of the full text regarding Umm Kulthum :

"Umm Kulthum
Some genealogists say that Umm Kulthum was daughter of Fatima az-Zahra’ (a.s.), and that Umar bin al-Khattab had got married to her, and she bore him two children; one was Oun and the other Mu’een who both were with their mother in Kufa but they all died when a wall fell over them.

We have refuted this news by clear proofs and said that Fatima (a.s.) had no daughter except Lady Zaynab (a.s.). Some other researches have confirmed this fact as well. I found in some sources that Asma’ bint Umays had born from her husband Abu Bakr a son, who was Muhammad, the immortal martyr, and a daughter called Umm Kulthum who grew up in the house of Imam Ali (a.s.) after he had married her mother Asma’. Thus, Umm Kulthom, whom Umar had got married to, was Imam Ali’s stepdaughter.

Anyhow, I think, with no any doubt, that Fatima az-Zahra’ (a.s.) had had no daughter called Umm Kulthum."

Salam

#22 Nader Zaveri

Nader Zaveri

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,585 posts
  • Interests:http://www.revivingalislam.com/

Posted 05 February 2011 - 12:09 PM

(salam)
(bismillah)

Also Nader you are a Gujrati I guess and Most Probably a Memon and they are a 3rd class bunch of people, and definitely you must be involved in Dr Israar's or Zakir Naiks Organisation or some thing like that. But you know what it is best for you to avoid meddling in our affairs or attacking our beleifs or holy persons and you should by now realise that you are a hopeless Kaffir. Also not to sound racist but the truth is when Gujratis get involved in religion they create disaster by mixing it with business and their mentality.

Ummm....You know nothing about me. And since you know nothing about me it is best to keep my name out of your mouth.

Refute me from hadeeth from our Imaams that this marriage didn't take place (and do not use the source from Al-Kharaa'ij that Al-Majlisi uses). That book isn't even considered one of our major books, and the chain of narrators is laughable. Refute me with scholarly analysis, if you can't it is best if you don't speak on this matter.

We have refuted this news by clear proofs and said that Fatima (a.s.) had no daughter except Lady Zaynab (a.s.). Some other researches have confirmed this fact as well. I found in some sources that Asma’ bint Umays had born from her husband Abu Bakr a son, who was Muhammad, the immortal martyr, and a daughter called Umm Kulthum who grew up in the house of Imam Ali (a.s.) after he had married her mother Asma’. Thus, Umm Kulthom, whom Umar had got married to, was Imam Ali’s stepdaughter.

Anyhow, I think, with no any doubt, that Fatima az-Zahra’ (a.s.) had had no daughter called Umm Kulthum."

So we are denying the existence of Umm Kulthoom bint `Alee (SA) now?! SubHanallaah! First we deny the existence of the other daughters of the Prophet (pbuh), and now we deny the existence of Umm Kulthoom. When will this reactionary mentality stop?

(salam)

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 05 February 2011 - 12:26 PM.


#23 ZulfiSaifedDinFsblh

ZulfiSaifedDinFsblh

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 79 posts
  • Religion:True Islam Original Shia free from cultural innovations

Posted 05 February 2011 - 12:53 PM

So we are denying the existence of Umm Kulthoom bint `Alee (SA) now?! SubHanallaah! First we deny the existence of the other daughters of the Prophet (pbuh), and now we deny the existence of Umm Kulthoom. When will this reactionary mentality stop?

I invit all the people that can came across this page to check the work of Allame Baqir Sharif al Qurashi on Ansariyan Publications.
This guy for those who don't know made amazing work on the Life of the 14 Infallibles (as) : 1 book for each of them so 14 books on the life of these individuals.
I suggest you all to take care from the claimings of people who run website or whatever even they seems to be more knowledgeable than you are
make a counter check for every of their claims
even for the ones who use the science of 3ilm al rijal to refute an entire matter since Ayat Khamenei stated himself of the distorsion are present at a stage or another in every of these books and the fact that even a liar like abu hurayra can say the truth on a particular point.
I can only advise you to study history with a big H, refer to people who this is the job and confront opinions between those who know.
Not pseudo web historicist on the web.
I take the opinion of Baqir Sharif al Qurashi from Najaf any day of the week in front of yours dear brother.
Salam.

Edited by ZulfiSaifedDinFsblh, 05 February 2011 - 12:54 PM.


#24 zaheerhusain

zaheerhusain
  • Basic Members
  • 43 posts
  • Location:Delhi India

Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:58 PM

Kindly note that either by pasting the given URL or clicking the link , the page did not open given in the beginning of the question's answer

#25 zaheerhusain

zaheerhusain
  • Basic Members
  • 43 posts
  • Location:Delhi India

Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:26 PM

The fact is undoubtedly that Hazrat Umme Kulsoom bint e Maula Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã NEVER got married to the 2-d Khalif. It is a myth and a deleberate mischievious fabrication to try a futile effort to enhance the prestige if there is any of Omar bin Khattab who burnt the Door of Janab e Saiyaddah (s), hurt her so much that she lost her unborn baby and ultimately could not herself survive the injuries inflicted by the criminal . Can any body in his right senses imagine that Nafs e RaSOOL (S) , the 2nd part of the single Noor created by Allah and appointed by Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì will give his very young kid daughter to a more than middle aged man who besides doing all the cruelties was the son of a known illegitimate father , was the son of an illegitimate mother , was the son of an illegitimate sister and daughter all in one. ( for the details please open up the Youtube Video typing in urdu '' hazrat umar ka shijra e nasab'' in the subject )
Then how they could create this confusion ? Because he is reportedly married to two other women bearing the same name .And the Munafeqeen as well as their admirers and followers wanted to bring it to public that enemities, zulms , attrocities and terrorist attack on the door , usurping is all a myth spread by shias. Ala La'anatallah e ala qaumizzalemeen .



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users