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Is It Okay To Chat Online With The Opposite Gender


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#1 Mommin

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:03 AM

Salaam everyone,

I just wanted to ask if its okay to chat online to the opposite gender?

I mean if you know the person quite well and they are fairly religious than it should be okay. I dont see why some people regard it as being haram when in fact when you go out into the real world to study or work you always have to speak to the opposite gender, you cant avoid each other!

Also if you are a mature person than the talk can always be held in a modest and intelligent manner, so haram can never take place.

So why are some people so against this?

Wasalaam

#2 AliSaleh

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:56 AM

As long as there is no talk about sex or sending sexy pictures its ok. Plus keep in mind its online so even if they say they r a girl they may be a man,.

#3 Calm

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:36 AM

I will not tell you whether it's haraam or not but just wanted to address some things in your post.


I mean if you know the person quite well and they are fairly religious than it should be okay.

Whether the other person is religious or not it does not matter, what matters is what is being discussed and whether it is necessary to speak with them or not. Religion teaches us that a private conversation between two non-mahrams should be held only if it's necessary . You be the judge of yourself but define the word "necessary" justly not to what we'd like it to mean.


I dont see why some people regard it as being haram when in fact when you go out into the real world to study or work you always have to speak to the opposite gender, you cant avoid each other!

At work and in schools, interaction between the two is usually not private or away from the public(very different from private chats) and is "necessary" most of the time.


Also if you are a mature person than the talk can always be held in a modest and intelligent manner, so haram can never take place.

The words in the conversation itself can be modest yes but chances are that two people of the opposite gender speaking privately when it's not a necessity then it might leads to some feelings down the road. So one can be the judge of themselves (ina al-isana 3alla nafssihi basira wa law alqaa ma3aathira/A person is on himself an observer even if he comes up with excuses). Sometimes a person is interested to marry another person and want to get to know them, that's completely different as you intention is for marriage purposes-but we're not talking about this case right now.


So why are some people so against this?

To me, there is no absolute answer whether it's all haram or halal. It's a case by case and a person usually knows if this private conversation is free of all fear(fear of wrong intention) or not. I won't tell people avoid private conversations with non-mahrams period, but I would suggest they put a limit to themselves and know when it should be done and when it should be avoided, when it's leading no where and when it might be fruitful, when it's appropriate-and-necessary and when it is not. So, for myself, I find being a little strict about it does more good than any harm. Like any adult, we should know and be careful as the more private it is the more it's slippery it gets. Again, not too aggressive about it as if a private chat will poison our faith, but just watchful enough to know when it's needed as opposed to when it's liked.

Edited by Calm, 05 December 2010 - 10:37 AM.


#4 Mommin

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 11:01 AM

I agree with what you have said Calm, but if you know the person quite well like say its a relative of your's or a friend that lives abroad than sometimes chatting online is more appropriate as you dont see each other face to face that often.
Also a person will know their boundaries and if they have a pure intention in their heart with no strange 'feeling' than they will make sure the conversation is kept respectable.

I mean in this day of age of technology there are so many ways of having conversations with people, and life is becoming so busy that sometimes due to various factors like a busy life style contacting each other via email or chatting is the normal way. Some people may use this line also to discuss their homeowork from their studies or work projects using these routes.

I mean its easy to see after chatting to someone if they want more out of something or are leading to somewhere else in their conversations, obviously a person can put a stop to this if they feel something is wrong!

#5 Morning light

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 12:26 PM

Salaam

The keyword in this situation is why.

Why do I have the need to talk to him/her? Could this need be satisfied in an another way, with different means?
If it concerns something that only I can answer, i.e. homework, school material, project, upcoming Muharram-majlis - can we solve the issue via mail instead of chatting? If possible, then why chat? If not possible, then solve it online and then you're done, nothing to come back to.

Concerning the limits and the content.
The term "respectable tone" is a bit misleading, because most of the times people are quite respectable when talking - not many have a vulgar approach. Moreover, as human beings we can easily interpret any selection of words, smileys, extra words as a mere trifle - nothing to take notice of since it's is done in such harmless and innocent atmosphere.
Therefore, what it all culminate in is the perpetual and recurrent concept: intention.

What is your intention with the conversation? It's a mere like/dislike-relationship? Then the answer whether it's okay/non-okay is quite obvious (not just from the halal-haram aspect, but rather from a psychological and sociological PoV). As a human generally and a muslim specifically we should always, and always have an intention with every single aspect of our life, regardless of size or value.
If we lack the ability to assess the intention, then that's the source of a seething imperfection, to say the least.

I have a wonderful non-practicing muslim friend, who has this perfect line that answers so much of the issues that we have to deal with by being a practicing muslim, no matter country. Whenever something happens without an aim she says: "And then what?" Simple as that - and then what?
So, in these situations were we start to hesitate whether or not, this or that we should think of the intention. And if that intention says it doesn't have any intention, it's just there and it's "fun", then the second question would be: then what? What happens afterwards? Shall I continue until the "fun" fades away?

This could be perceived as quite pragmatic and perhaps too much of a black-and white-thinking-mode, which is true in one sense but on the other hand it's all about what you want in life, with your own existence.

In the end of the day, it's the choice we make.

but just watchful enough to know when it's needed as opposed to when it's liked.


+1

#6 Mommin

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 02:25 PM

Salaam alaykum

Its not haram unless it leads to haram. look up seestanis Q&A thats what he states

Ws

#7 ShiaBen

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 04:05 PM

As long as there is no talk about sex or sending sexy pictures its ok. Plus keep in mind its online so even if they say they r a girl they may be a man,.


Clever response, yep I agree, let me add more to it.

Not just gender ambiguity, and avoiding the talk of sex or sinful habits, but what if you need some kind of help?? Some kind of advice from a forum, about school, jobs, cars, houses, relationships, just any tangent at all, you can't strictly pick responders at a forum based on their gender. That would be ridiculous.

#8 Marbles

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:49 PM

Yep, there is a time and a place to talk. For instance. If "my friend" only spoke to girls when necessary or needed he wouldn't have found the girl he wants to marry. And no,he had no intention to get married to her when he first started talking to her. Now if "my friend" repeated the same process with a girl if he was already married, then it would become a darn problem. He'd better avoid talking unnecessarily. Soo, time and place.

Folks, stop setting nonsensical criteria about when and how to talk to opposite gender and find your own space.

Edited by Marbles, 05 December 2010 - 10:51 PM.


#9 Morning light

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 11:49 AM

Salaam

Yep, there is a time and a place to talk. For instance. If "my friend" only spoke to girls when necessary or needed he wouldn't have found the girl he wants to marry. And no,he had no intention to get married to her when he first started talking to her. Now if "my friend" repeated the same process with a girl if he was already married, then it would become a darn problem. He'd better avoid talking unnecessarily. Soo, time and place.

Folks, stop setting nonsensical criteria about when and how to talk to opposite gender and find your own space.


Interesting.

So, what is the line of reasoning - since you never know whether or not something [read marriage] could happen with this person you should always be open...in case something happens?

#10 Haji 2003

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 12:47 PM

Putting in mind as a general rule to not talk to just spend time is wise, that does not mean breaking this rule when you know you're still doing the right thing is haraam and thus I did not say do or don't. It's your call, you'd know best but don't kid yourself that's what I'm saying-know what you're doing and for what purpose and you'll know whether it's right or not.


Private contact between two individuals of the opposite sex, regardless of medium is a problem. There are perfectly reasonable alternatives for each medium. Rather than have a private meeting at home, two people can meet at the homes of relatives and friends, when others are present.

Rather than private chatting, it's perfectly possible to be speaking to someone on a public forum and use that as a basis for understanding their worldview or whatever.

Sure there may be unavoidable instances of private contact - but I think we all know when these are and when we are just kidding ourselves. If the other person is of strong faith they will understand, if they are not they will run a mile. Which is a good thing.

#11 Mysterious secrets

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 03:05 AM

Besmellah

salaam,

I had the same question myself since I know so many people in the same postion as you, so I decided to asked my marja directly, because a lot of people I talked to were claiming that such acts are haram, wrong etc...... This is in accordance to the rulings of Ayatollah Khamenei


My Question:

Salaam,

Is it haram for a na-mahram boy and girl to befriend each other and chat/email over the internet to carry out halal discussions such religion, politics or their daily life happenings?

(keeping in mind that the computer screen and distance issues are massive barrier for them to ever physically meet )


His Answer:

Bismihi Ta`ala

Salamun `alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

Although chatting through internet is no problem by itself, but if making such relationships results in unlawful consequences or entails fears of committing sins, it is haraam.

With prayers for your success

#12 AliSaleh

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 08:46 AM

Haha so iwas right!

#13 Mommin

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 04:05 PM

Salaam,

So all the marja seem to say the same things about this, that it is generally okay to chat with the opposite gender unless it leads to haram.

Its NOT haram unless it leads to haram. Sayed Sistani.

Makes sense to me but dont know why people make it out to be soo Haram!

#14 itsfatima

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 04:56 AM

actually the thing is that.... many people do not get the concept they think that if two opposite sexes are talking to each other there is definitely something fishy going on... its just how our society is.....

#15 Haji 2003

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 05:10 AM

Its NOT haram unless it leads to haram. Sayed Sistani.



That's not quite the rendition that I've heard in a recent London Majalis a few days ago. Because chatting could lead to haram, it should not be done (unless essential). IIRC there was also an issue with Facebook and in particular Sis who have profiles with non-hijabi pics on their profiles. I'll check the specifics after the 10th.

#16 Mommin

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 09:16 AM

That's not quite the rendition that I've heard in a recent London Majalis a few days ago. Because chatting could lead to haram, it should not be done (unless essential). IIRC there was also an issue with Facebook and in particular Sis who have profiles with non-hijabi pics on their profiles. I'll check the specifics after the 10th.



Salaam,

But Sayed Sistani is a Marja and a big scholar so this is what he is saying, who's majlis did you hear this from and is the person that said it a known scholar? Or is he just saying this from his own opinion because if that is so than I am sorry but I will NOT believe it. In a majlis anything can be said depending on the speaker and it depends if he was knowledgable as Sistani.
I dont think the speaker in that majlis (with all respect to him) has much knowledge as Sayed Sistani.

Ws

Edited by Mommin, 19 December 2010 - 09:17 AM.


#17 Bhooka_Bhairiya

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 09:29 AM

As per ahadith, speaking to women kills the heart.

But since in online chat/telephone talk etc there's no khilwa(being alone with a woman), therefore it is irrelevant whether the one you are speaking to is of opposite gender. But keep in mind that in ahadith, indulging too much in jokes/frivolous talk has been condemned(whether it's done with a male or a female, doesn't make a difference).

Edited by Bhooka_Bhairiya, 19 December 2010 - 09:36 AM.


#18 avjar7

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 11:19 AM

As per ahadith, speaking to women kills the heart.


(salam)

Instead of lifting material from posts, and re-stating it without context and references, simply linking to the pertinent topic would be fine--ultimately it will help people gain knowledge.

http://www.shiachat....ost__p__2133185

#19 Bhooka_Bhairiya

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 11:57 AM

(salam)

Instead of lifting material from posts, and re-stating it without context and references, simply linking to the pertinent topic would be fine--ultimately it will help people gain knowledge.

http://www.shiachat....ost__p__2133185


The hadith I referred to is well known and not controversial which would necessitate all that. As for lifting material off posts and linking to the topic:

1) As I said, the hadith is well known. It would be naive to assume that me and other adult shias stumbled across it recently on the topic you linked.

2) It is actually the responsibility of the OP to search for similar topics before posting, not ours.

3) As for references, I don't believe it is necessary to always post them in the first post especially in well known and non controversial hadith like this. If someone does want references, they can ask. Sometimes I'll provide it whereas most of the time the knowledgeable members(I'm not one of them) will do it. However, when I post a "politically incorrect" view then I do tend to give sources.

4) This rule(quoting sources) should also apply to malangs mentioning the "merits of nad e ali","merits of ya ali madad" and other such garbage.

5) Lastly if there's a copyright issue, or simply a case of stepping on someone's toes then I prefer that you be more explicit so I(and other members) can avoid those issues.


Sorry for sounding rude, but you have to realize that what you are telling is impractical.

Edited by Bhooka_Bhairiya, 19 December 2010 - 11:58 AM.


#20 Nader Zaveri

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 06:59 PM

(salam)
(bismillah)

Bhooka, what Avjar has said is correct. Please provide references to EVERY statement you make that you are quoting a "reference". Because just because you think it is well known, a lot of people might not know it. Plus, it is a good way for people on here to check the authenticity of these aHaadeeth per rijaal and other means. Also, providing references allows us to go and double check and MAYBE you might have misunderstood the hadeeth or mistranslated it, it is a way of double checking.

(salam)

#21 Mommin

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 01:52 PM

(salam)
(bismillah)

Bhooka, what Avjar has said is correct. Please provide references to EVERY statement you make that you are quoting a "reference". Because just because you think it is well known, a lot of people might not know it. Plus, it is a good way for people on here to check the authenticity of these aHaadeeth per rijaal and other means. Also, providing references allows us to go and double check and MAYBE you might have misunderstood the hadeeth or mistranslated it, it is a way of double checking.

(salam)



Well said!

Its true that not all hadiths are authentic as some hadiths have become fabricated over generations, so one has to be very careful about this. Only if they have been mentioned in proper and authentic books do they become more reliable as they will have references provided with them.

Ws



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