Jump to content


- - - -


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Jang-e-jamal


16 replies to this topic

#1 goharjanjua

goharjanjua

    Doctor Sahab

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 201 posts
  • Location:Pakistan
  • Religion:Muslim

Posted 28 October 2010 - 02:39 AM

(bismillah)
(salam)

a battle that took place at Basra, Iraq in 656 between Hazrat Ali (ra) and Hazrat Ayesha (ra) .......
just want to know what were the causes of the batle, and outcome.

because all i know is whenever there is a difference of opinions, there is a fight.
and, one of them was on the right path and the other not....... :unsure:

Considering Hazrat Ayesha's (ra) action, she went against the Rashid Caliph of that time.
and Hazrat Ali (ra) went against the um-ul-mo'mineen (ra) .

Please enlighten. :)

#2 Praetorius

Praetorius

    Chaos Knight

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,789 posts
  • Location:Hell's Entrance
  • Interests:Life, and how to take it away from others

Posted 28 October 2010 - 04:24 AM

(bismillah)
(salam)

a battle that took place at Basra, Iraq in 656 between Hazrat Ali (ra) and Hazrat Ayesha (ra) .......
just want to know what were the causes of the batle, and outcome.

because all i know is whenever there is a difference of opinions, there is a fight.
and, one of them was on the right path and the other not....... :unsure:

Considering Hazrat Ayesha's (ra) action, she went against the Rashid Caliph of that time.
and Hazrat Ali (ra) went against the um-ul-mo'mineen (ra) .

Please enlighten. :)

Before we proceed, I'd like to ask you whether you agree with the following:-

  • Before Caliph Usman's death, Aisha and Hafsa went to him and asked him for their "share" from the Bait ul Maal, a request which was denied.
  • Following this event, Aisha began chanting loud slogans crying, "Kill Usman, the Na' thal (Jew)"
  • After Usman's death, suddenly Aisha felt the need to avenge his murder, so she picked up his bloodied shirt, and cried on the streets for justice, demanding it from Imam Ali (as) after he is appointed Caliph
  • Aisha gains support from Zubair, Talhah and the illegitimate degenerate human Muawiya, which leads to the marching to the battlefield
  • The Prophet (pbuh) had STRICTLY prohibited all of his wives to go out of their homes so on and so forth, a command which was outright defied by Aisha

After I hear your response, we shall continue.
(wasalam)

Edited by Legio Invicta, 28 October 2010 - 04:27 AM.


#3 fallah

fallah

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 363 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 28 October 2010 - 10:27 AM

Aisha's error was to go out in public and make a scene. Both sects agree to this. shias go a step furthwer and say she was the one who ordered the army to attack his troops, while the truth may be that the army went out without her signal, as there was already tensions and insults being thrown at each side, thus the battle begun. And it makes more sense, since Ali didn't kill her nor disrespected her after the battle.

Believe what you wish.

Edited by fallah, 28 October 2010 - 10:28 AM.


#4 doobybrother

doobybrother

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,285 posts
  • Religion:Islam, muhib

Posted 28 October 2010 - 10:38 AM

Aisha's error was to go out in public and make a scene. Both sects agree to this. shias go a step furthwer and say she was the one who ordered the army to attack his troops, while the truth may be that the army went out without her signal, as there was already tensions and insults being thrown at each side, thus the battle begun. And it makes more sense, since Ali didn't kill her nor disrespected her after the battle.

Believe what you wish.



Did Ayesha gather an army? if yes, for what purpose?


#5 Praetorius

Praetorius

    Chaos Knight

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,789 posts
  • Location:Hell's Entrance
  • Interests:Life, and how to take it away from others

Posted 28 October 2010 - 12:32 PM

Aisha's error was to go out in public and make a scene. Both sects agree to this. shias go a step furthwer and say she was the one who ordered the army to attack his troops, while the truth may be that the army went out without her signal, as there was already tensions and insults being thrown at each side, thus the battle begun. And it makes more sense, since Ali didn't kill her nor disrespected her after the battle.

Believe what you wish.

The fact remains that she LEAD and RALLIED the army. She holds full responsibility for the death of more than 10000 Muslims.

#6 abbas110

abbas110

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,024 posts

Posted 28 October 2010 - 12:56 PM

Before we proceed, I'd like to ask you whether you agree with the following:-

  • Before Caliph Usman's death, Aisha and Hafsa went to him and asked him for their "share" from the Bait ul Maal, a request which was denied.
  • Following this event, Aisha began chanting loud slogans crying, "Kill Usman, the Na' thal (Jew)"
  • After Usman's death, suddenly Aisha felt the need to avenge his murder, so she picked up his bloodied shirt, and cried on the streets for justice, demanding it from Imam Ali (as) after he is appointed Caliph
  • Aisha gains support from Zubair, Talhah and the illegitimate degenerate human Muawiya, which leads to the marching to the battlefield
  • The Prophet (pbuh) had STRICTLY prohibited all of his wives to go out of their homes so on and so forth, a command which was outright defied by Aisha

After I hear your response, we shall continue.
(wasalam)


I would add the following as point #3 in your list;

[*]As Usmans' house was seiged in Madina and he was inside helpless along with a few of his friends and supporters, Ayesha decided to leave Madina to Mecca citing Hajj Pilgrimage as an exuse. At this critical state she chose not to arbitrate and help caliph Usman.

#7 Dead-Man

Dead-Man

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 28 October 2010 - 12:57 PM

Sallam Alleikom

The Prophet (pbuh) Warned his Wives before the Event Occured when he (pbuh) said

The Prophet (pbuh) said to his wives: "I wonder which one of you will be the instigator of the Camel Affair, at whom the dogs of Haw'ab will bark, and she will be the one who has deviated from the straight path. As to you Humayra (i.e., Aisha), I have warned you in that regard."

and Also The Quran Warned them
"And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance;...." Al-Quran 33:33

And the Prophet (pbuh) Said regarding Ali "Ali is with the Truth and Truth is with Ali" Plus the Ahlulsunnah Regard him as "Rightly guided" and no doubt Imam Ali (as) would never cause any battle or Harm anyone, but rather the people "sahaba" were hurting him

and in the Quran Ali (as) is described as the Self of the Prophet, so Waging a War on Ali is as if Waging a War on Islam

Edited by Dead-Man, 28 October 2010 - 12:58 PM.


#8 fallah

fallah

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 363 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 28 October 2010 - 01:33 PM

The fact remains that she LEAD and RALLIED the army. She holds full responsibility for the death of more than 10000 Muslims.


If Muslim troops killed innocnet men under the leadership of the Prophet, will you hold the Prophet responsible for it?

Think again.

Did Ayesha gather an army? if yes, for what purpose?


Did she herself call the people to form an army, or was there already alot of rumble after the death of uthman?
She was among those who were intrigued of the death of uthman, and knowing that she was the wife of the prophet, she politically did have some power and thus she became the representative of this group.
Remember she's a woman, I don't think that he could physically call people to an uprising. There was already an uprising, she being among this and being the wife of the prophet, she was put at the head of it. Ali was of his family, so aisha, being of his family too, served a political purpose.
She was wrong in the act of making a scene and actually be in front of this uprising, but you cannot blame her for the deaths if Ali himself did not punish her. Did he punish her? I would like to know.

Edited by fallah, 28 October 2010 - 01:35 PM.


#9 Praetorius

Praetorius

    Chaos Knight

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,789 posts
  • Location:Hell's Entrance
  • Interests:Life, and how to take it away from others

Posted 28 October 2010 - 03:49 PM

If Muslim troops killed innocnet men under the leadership of the Prophet, will you hold the Prophet responsible for it?

Think again.

Read what I said again. I said FULLY responsible, not SOLELY responsible. There's a huge difference. She sowed the seeds to the war, and eventually sparked it after giving Usman's opposition an outlet and forefront (i.e. Aisha herself) for their revolt, subsequently changing her stance when she sees her most hated enemy Ali (as) gaining power. Those that followed suite are equally responsible. Aisha had a chance to stop this war, she gave it up, just as a brother mentions, using the pretext of going for pilgrimage to Makkah, while Usman was besieged.

You should be the one to think again. Stop holding sympathy for people who spilled the blood of a thousand Muslims purely on the pretext of demanding justice.

Edited by Legio Invicta, 28 October 2010 - 03:49 PM.


#10 SayYaAli

SayYaAli

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 872 posts

Posted 29 October 2010 - 01:18 AM

(bismillah)
(salam)

a battle that took place at Basra, Iraq in 656 between Hazrat Ali (ra) and Hazrat Ayesha (ra) .......
just want to know what were the causes of the batle, and outcome.

because all i know is whenever there is a difference of opinions, there is a fight.
and, one of them was on the right path and the other not....... :unsure:

Considering Hazrat Ayesha's (ra) action, she went against the Rashid Caliph of that time.
and Hazrat Ali (ra) went against the um-ul-mo'mineen (ra) .

Please enlighten. :)




Hazrat Ali (a.s) did not go against her. She went against him. The instigator of a battle is always culpable and true Islamic heroes never invade, only defend.





#11 Son Of Adam

Son Of Adam

    May Allah Curse the Opressors of Ahlul-Bayt

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 383 posts
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Religion:Islam - ÔíÚÉ Úáí

Posted 29 October 2010 - 03:41 AM

(bismillah)
(salam)

because all i know is whenever there is a difference of opinions, there is a fight.
and, one of them was on the right path and the other not....... :unsure:


(salam)

If we were to put aside the commander of the faithful Ali (a.s) for a sec, a great companion called Ammar ibn Yasir (r.a) was participating with Imam Ali (a.s), and the Prophet (s) told him: "Ammar be cheerful, the aggressor party shall kill you."

- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p383.
- Sahih Muslim, hadith 6968 & 6970.

Also the quran makes it clear that.....If a man kills a Believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (for ever): and the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him. (4:93). So you can imagine if any of those beleivers who were standing alongside Imam Ali (a.s) were killed intentionally.

Wa'Salam!

#12 Incognito

Incognito

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 748 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 29 October 2010 - 12:36 PM

It is not always the case that when a war occurs that one party has to be right and the other wrong. In some cases they are both wrong, and in other cases one is right and other is wrong.

However there can never be both right, if we are accepting that these people both follow the same ideology, which in this case, we do. This is a standard logical explanation, that can even be formulised to show its truth.

I guess we can only lead ourselves to two conclusions. Were both Aisha and Ali (as) wrong or was one of them right whilst the other incorrect?

Usually, neither party accepts the first answer. Now we think to ourselves, based on their characters, eloquence and piety, which is the more likely to be wrong and which is the more likely to be right? Concern yourself solely on this matter.

#13 Gypsy

Gypsy

    Hal Min Nasirin Yansurna

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,492 posts
  • Interests:Exposing hypocrisy and double standards.

Posted 29 October 2010 - 11:06 PM

(salam)

Considering Hazrat Ayesha's (ra) action, she went against the Rashid Caliph of that time.
and Hazrat Ali (ra) went against the um-ul-mo'mineen (ra) .

Please enlighten. :)

Imam Ali(as) didn't go against Ayesha for personal reasons. He was the caliph of the time. Ayesha was in the party of rebels who tried to undermine the government of the time.

Imam Ali(as) had every right to protect the Ummah from corruption. Party of Jamal was the party of fitna and corruption. You really need to ready history to find out what the party of Jamal did before Imam Ali(as) mobilized the army to go and fight them.

#14 89jghur32

89jghur32

    Member

  • Unregistered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,832 posts
  • Religion:ÇáÅÓáÇã
  • Interests:Implementing the Amman Message

Posted 30 October 2010 - 01:57 AM

I suggest that any Sunni look into what Hafiz al-Tabari has to say regarding the position of Ahl us-Sunnah on those who rebelled against Amir ul-Mumineen (as). He clearly states that they had transgressed, and the repentance of the transgressor is between them and Allah `azza wa jal. Is this not what we Shi`a say?

If Muslim troops killed innocnet men under the leadership of the Prophet, will you hold the Prophet responsible for it?

Think again.


Throwing reductio ad absurdum again. This would not happen under the leadership of the Prophet (pbuh), otherwise he (pbuh) would not be a messenger. Messengers, prophets and imams are protected, and they would not introduce their nations to circumstances that could cause chaos within.

Edited by al-Irshad, 30 October 2010 - 02:00 AM.


#15 Dead-Man

Dead-Man

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 30 October 2010 - 08:34 AM

Sallam Alleikom

to Claim Imam Ali (as) being on a wrong is like saying he strayed from the straight path since Alot of Muslims Blood been shed

Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 88, Number 220:
Narrated Abu Maryam Abdullah bin Ziyad Al-Aasadi:

When Talha, AzZubair and 'Aisha moved to Basra, 'Ali sent 'Ammar bin Yasir and Hasan bin 'Ali who came to us at Kufa and ascended the pulpit. Al-Hasan bin 'Ali was at the top of the pulpit and 'Ammar was below Al-Hasan. We all gathered before him. I heard 'Ammar saying, "'Aisha has moved to Al-Busra. By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter. But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him (Allah) or her ('Aisha)."


So Obeying Ali (as) is Obeying Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì

#16 salman siddiqui

salman siddiqui
  • Basic Members
  • 1 posts
  • Religion:islam

Posted 23 June 2013 - 07:26 AM

salam

 

i want to share some important information with u that during the battle of jamal .. both hazrat ayesha and hazrat ali declined the offer to fight , they donot wanted to start the war .

so the third force (the real murderer of hazrat usman,the kharijeties , the hypocrites) attack the camp of hazrat ayesha during night so the army of hazrat ayesha thought that hazrat ali had attacked them that is how the war started . 

 

in this battle both of them hazrat ayesha and hazrat ali was on the right path that both were correct on their behalf. this battle was not the war between falsehood and truth but the war due to misunderstanding .

both the army had superior companions .. both hazrat ayesha and hazrat ali were notable companion and were one of the main cause of islam .

the kharijeties (the hypocrites) were successful in this battle as they divided the muslim ummah and up till now the muslims are divided due to misunderstanding..

 

so muslims should correct themselves 



#17 skamran110

skamran110

    Humble Servant of Allah swt

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 427 posts
  • Location:Pakistan
  • Religion:Islam - Shia of Ali as
  • Interests:To explore the Truth about the religion, Quran , Ahl al bayat AS

Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:40 PM

salam

 

i want to share some important information with u that during the battle of jamal .. both hazrat ayesha and hazrat ali declined the offer to fight , they donot wanted to start the war .

so the third force (the real murderer of hazrat usman,the kharijeties , the hypocrites) attack the camp of hazrat ayesha during night so the army of hazrat ayesha thought that hazrat ali had attacked them that is how the war started . 

 

in this battle both of them hazrat ayesha and hazrat ali was on the right path that both were correct on their behalf. this battle was not the war between falsehood and truth but the war due to misunderstanding .

both the army had superior companions .. both hazrat ayesha and hazrat ali were notable companion and were one of the main cause of islam .

the kharijeties (the hypocrites) were successful in this battle as they divided the muslim ummah and up till now the muslims are divided due to misunderstanding..

 

so muslims should correct themselves 

 

Sorry brother if you read quran the wives of the prophet have been ordered to stay inside their homes (33:33). BB Aisha lead a war against Imam Ali in the battlfiled of jamal did she follow the order of quran? Be courageous to say the truth.


  • akramabbas likes this



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users