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Sunnah Of Ayesha


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#1 kamiljaffari

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 04:20 PM

(salam)

Breastfeeding fatwa causes stir

One of Sunni Islam's most prestigious institutions is to discipline a cleric after he issued a decree allowing women to breastfeed their male colleagues.

Dr Izzat Atiya of Egypt's al-Azhar University said it offered a way around segregation of the sexes at work.

His fatwa stated the act would make the man symbolically related to the woman and preclude any sexual relations.

The president of al-Azhar denounced the fatwa, which Dr Atiya has since retracted, as defamatory to Islam.

According to Islamic tradition, or Hadith, breast-feeding establishes a degree of maternal relation, even if a woman nurses a child who is not biologically hers.

'Family bond'


In his fatwa, Dr Atiya, the head of al-Azhar's Department of Hadith, said such teachings could equally apply to adults.

He said that if a woman fed a male colleague "directly from her breast" at least five times they would establish a family bond and thus be allowed to be alone together at work.

"Breast feeding an adult puts an end to the problem of the private meeting, and does not ban marriage," he ruled.

"A woman at work can take off the veil or reveal her hair in front of someone whom she breastfed."

The legal ruling sparked outrage throughout Egypt and the Arab world.

On Sunday, Dr Atiya retracted it, saying it had been the result of a "bad interpretation of a particular case" during the time of the Prophet Muhammad.

Egypt's minister of religious affairs, Mahmoud Zaqzouq, has called for future fatwas to "be compatible with logic and human nature".


http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/6681511.stm

let me tell you this was the sunnah of ayesha


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http://islamweb.net/...&bk_no=7&ID=450

Narrated Yahya from Malik from Ibn Shihab that he was asked about breastfeeding of adults so He said: Orwa ibn zubair told me that Abu Hudhaifah Ibn Otbah Ibn Rabee'a and he was from the companions of Rasool Allah (pbuh) .....so Ayesha used this about men She liked to visit her so She used to order her sister Umm-Kulthoom Daughter of Abu bakr..and Her Nieces to Breastfeed everyone She wanted to visit her (see her without hijab)
and the rest of wives of the Prophet (pbuh) refused to accept anyone with these sucklings to visit them (without hijab) ......

there is another hadith in nisai

so this is the ugly sunnah of ayesha is now became the part of ahl-sunnah socialism by the verdict of al-azhar university !

#2 Hanan

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 05:23 PM

(wasalam)

This is completely ridiculous and disgusting. Even the first step taken by a man towards a non-Mahram woman's bare breast in order to drink from it (and the skin-to-skin contact) is Haram in itself, so how could it possibly lead to a Halal relationship?

If the men and woman are experiencing such hardships and difficulties when working together, then maybe they should re-think their jobs and careers so that they are not forced to be in situations where they are alone and could possibly commit a sin.

I'm not surprised by that narration about A'isha. She definitely is capable of doing something as low and contradictory to Islam as that. And to think that she is supposed to be "Um al-Mu'mineen", our female role model and the best wife of the Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ha ha, yeah right...

#3 Rohani

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 07:06 PM

(salam)
That is crooked and clearly wrong. on so many levels.

(wasalam)

Edited by theunknownpreacher, 22 February 2010 - 07:07 PM.


#4 Tayyeb_Jaan

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 08:16 PM

This is were many non-muslims come and attack Islam in general. The wahabbis don't help when they support these things, unfortuantely the ones not as knowledgeable will take the wahabbi view and implement it to their ideas of general Islam.


Though I'm not sure Aisha would do such a thing, I mean yes what happened in Jamal happened but wouldn't you think that she would be prevented from performing any form sexual misconduct? (considering she was the wife of the Prophet (pbuh))

Well regardless, this a load of bull, just some &@#$# mullahs trying to make their fantasies lawful...

Edited by Tayyeb_Jaan, 22 February 2010 - 08:18 PM.


#5 Maula Dha Mallang

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 04:20 AM

im moving to saudi.






seriously tho, i expect nothing better from ammi jaan. its the sort of filth the enemy of maula ali WOULD do without any doubt.

#6 kaneez_14

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 04:53 AM

The hadith translation doesn't seem to make sense. But the idea of this actually being seen as permissible regardless of whether it was practised or not. Is pretty stupid and somewhat flawed. When in the Quran it clearly states that a mother can only breastfeed her OWN SON for up till the age of two years. Then how on earth do some think that it is permissible for a woman to feed an adult male. Yuck.

#7 hameedeh

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 05:10 AM

The hadith translation doesn't seem to make sense. But the idea of this actually being seen as permissible regardless of whether it was practised or not. Is pretty stupid and somewhat flawed. When in the Quran it clearly states that a mother can only breastfeed her OWN SON for up till the age of two years. Then how on earth do some think that it is permissible for a woman to feed an adult male. Yuck.

(bismillah)
(salam)
There was a breastmilk religious ruling many years ago from a Sunni - stating that it was acceptable for an elderly man to drink breastmilk in order to stay alive.
However, I think everyone assumed that the milk was pumped into a cup! Now I'm not so sure! :squeez:

#8 Gypsy

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 09:32 PM

(salam)
These hadiths doesn't sound right. Scientifically, you need to be pregnant and give birth to a baby before you can physically breastfeed a baby/another human. Ayesha didn't have any children. :unsure:

I believe it is immoral for a woman to expose herself to a man who is not her husband. The only exception to this rule is when you are seeking medical treatment.

BTW, if a grown woman breastfeed an adult male, they don't become mahram to each other. The Islamic ruling for breastfeeding is only applicable when you are feeding a baby, below a certain age and it is dependent solely on the mother's milk to survive. Please refer to the rulings of your marja.

Edited by Zareen, 23 February 2010 - 09:37 PM.


#9 kaneez fizza

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 07:53 AM

Breast feeding is for infants only.In no culture,no society has there ever been a concept otherwise,leave alone Islam in which hijab is a must for all adult females.I can`t expect a brute thinking of such embarrassing ideas leave alone a scholar.

#10 sukaina_08

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 02:32 PM

A slight side issue, but in response to Zareen, scientifically yes, you can breastfeed without having your own child. Even men can lactate by the way - I've watched a few documentaries on men who wanted to breastfeed their own children and were able to do so (all the same 'mechanisms' are there in both men and women). Further, nurse maids were very common in the past, and are still in use today in some countries (women who nurse other women's babies). Someone I know from Saudi Arabia has said that his grandma is mahram to practically the whole neighborhood because she breastfed so many of them when they were babies.

Here's a link for more info: http://www.associate...cy.html?cat=25. (what I could find in only a few minutes' time, lol - I'm sure there are better ones out there).

#11 rihatiffi

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:11 AM

I didn't really take too much offense anyways, since it's already assumed some people will respond that way by default here when bringing up something unpopular. And when posting this, it is for the sake of clarification through discussion, not for making accusations or stirring up emotion that leads to badmouthing other brothers. The ahadith say what the ahadith say, not me. i request all my friends to read it with an open mind. not just try and pick mistakes, but try and understand.

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Let us first look at the translation of the Hadith mentioned in the Sahih of Imam Muslim and elsewhere:

Sayyida A�isha (Allah be pleased with her) reports that Sahla bint Suhayl came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said: �O Messenger of Allah! I see on the face of Abu Hudhayfa (signs of dislike) on the entering of Salim, who is an ally, (into our house). The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: �Suckle him.� She said: �How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) smiled and said: �I already know that he is a young man.� (Sahih Muslim, no: 1453)

Another version of this Hadith is as follows:

Sayyida A�isha (may Allah be pleased with her) reports that Salim, the freed-slave of Abu Hudhayfa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i.e. the daughter of Suhayl and wife of Abu Hudhayfa) came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said: �Salim has attained (puberty) as men attain, and he has began to understand what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, think that Abu Hudhayfa feels uncomfortable with this. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to her: �Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the dislike) which Abu Hudhayfa feels in his heart will disappear.� She returned and said: �I have suckled him and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhayfa has disappeared.� (Sahih Muslim)

Before coming to any sort of conclusion, we need to first understand the background and context of this incident. Imam Abu al-Abbas al-Qurtubi (Allah have mercy on him) states in his commentary of Sahih Muslim:

�Salim (in this Hadith) is Salim ibn Ma�qal�Abu Hudhayfa had adopted him in accordance with the customs of the Arabs. He (Salim) had been brought up and raised by Abu Hudhayfa and his wife as their own son. When the verse of the Qur�an �Call them (your adopted children) by (the names of) their (real) fathers�.� (Surah al-Ahzab, V: 5) was revealed, the ruling of adopting children was abrogated (in that one can no longer consider an adopted son to be one�s own). However, Salim continued to reside and enter the house of Sahla (the wife of Abu Hudhayfa) as he was a minor. When he grew old and came close to puberty, both Abu Hudhayfa and Sahla disliked the idea of him entering freely upon Sahla, but they found it difficult to mention this to him, given the fact that he had lived with them (and was brought up by them), hence they asked the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) regarding this. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to Sahla: �Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the dislike) which Abu Hudhayfa feels in his heart will disappear� hence she suckled him and it so happened (i.e. the dislike of Abu Hudhayfa disappeared)�� (al-Mufhim lima Ashkal min talkhis Kitab Muslim, 4/186, Dar Ibn Kathir print)

The above clearly illustrates that Salim was adopted by Abu Hudhayfa and his wife Sahla. He had lived with them and was raised and brought up by them since childhood. However, Islam does not recognize legal adoption and an adopted child is not considered a real child, hence after reaching puberty, the rules of Hijab are applicable. It became very difficult for Salim to live with his adoptive mother due to this rule, thus the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) advised Sahla to make Salim drink her breast-milk, whereby the rules of Hijab would be lifted.

It is narrated in the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa�d and elsewhere that Sahla would pour her breast-milk into a utensil each day for five continuous days and Salim would drink from it. He did not directly drink from the breast of Sahla, as it is not permitted to expose one�s nakedness (awra) in front of a non-Mahram adult, let alone have him suckled. Thus, the objection raised by some non-Muslims that this was an immoral act has no significance, for Sahla did not directly suckle Salim, as he had reached puberty. Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (Allah have mercy on him) has also mentioned this in his al-Isaba fi tamiz al-Sahaba. (See: Tabaqat Ibn Sa�d, 8/271 & al-Isaba, 4/337)

This leaves us with the question whether is it allowed for an adult to drink breast-milk, and what implications would that hold?

It is a well-known and recognised fact amongst the majority of the Muslim jurists (fuqaha) that suckling is not permitted after two (or 2 and a half) years, neither does it affect the rules of Hijab and marriage. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) quite clearly mentioned this in one Hadith where he said: ��suckling is only valid if it takes place in the suckling period.� (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2504 & Sahih Muslim, no. 1455) The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) also said: �Suckling (radha�a) does not prohibit (i.e. marriage) except which penetrates the intestines (m: meaning which serves as a nourishment for the child) from the breasts, and it is prior to weaning.� (Recorded by Imam al-Tirmidhi in his Sunan, no. 1152)

Moreover, Umm Salama, the wife of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) used to say: �All the wives of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) rejected the idea that one can come to them (without observing the rules of Hijab) with this type of breastfeeding (i.e. the suckling of an adult), hence they said to A�isha (Allah be pleased with her): �By Allah, we do not consider this but a dispensation given by the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) for Salim. No one is to be allowed to enter (our houses) with this type of fosterage and we do not subscribe to this view.� (Sahih Muslim, no: 1454)


NOW,

It was Hazrat Aishah r.a who took an opinion from this incident that somehow everyone could do this and have relatives breastfeed non-mahram men in order to to establish familial relations, but was confronted by the other wives of the Prophet, salallahu alayhe wa sallem, who said that they believed this was a specific flexible admission for that family due to their circumstances, and was an isolated incident not to be applied to everyone else. And then there are the other hadith in which hazrat Aishah r.a would ask relatives, after this incident, to breastfeed certain men, most likely young playmates, in order to make them mahram for her to visit, though they obviously declined and recognized this as an admission for that family's constraints. Allahu Alim, and this is an outline of what happened according to the narrations.

and Allah ta'ala knows best.

#12 Goku

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 08:43 PM

In which hallal way can the man breastfeed from a random lady? Ok, after he does it 5 times then its like their family or something but how would they do it the first time if its just obviously forbidden? O_O

#13 Gypsy

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:15 AM

Good women don't breast feed random men at will. Women can't even disclosed their hair or neck in front of non-family male member and you think breast feeding adult men is okay?

Besides, adult never becomes family of someone if they are breast feed. Only babies do.

#14 Aliaabbas

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:31 AM

This is why sunnis like Ayesha so much :)
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#15 Marbles

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:35 AM

This is a Sunni issue. The infamous Egyptian fatwa asking women to breastfeed their male colleagues in order to make them mahram with a view to working in a mixed environment in a halal way caused an outcry among the sane.

Just imagine this scenario for a minute and you will definitely want to spit on the face of the mullah who issued this fatwa.
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#16 ילדת מלך

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:38 AM

No, but did it actually happen ?

I mean to ask did Ayesha really advocate such depravity ? It's obnoxious beyond imagination .

Edited by ילדת מלך, 18 June 2012 - 07:39 AM.


#17 Aliaabbas

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:46 AM

No, but did it actually happen ?

I mean to ask did Ayesha really advocate such depravity ? It's obnoxious beyond imagination .


Should it be that shocking? After all this woman is the daughter of the vile Abu Bakr and she did some pretty horrible things in her time, going to war with Imam Ali (as) refusing to allow Imam Hassan (as) to be buried near his beloved Grandfather amongst other things.

This breastfeeding disgrace (as gross as it is) is small compared to her other deeds

Edited by Aliaabbas, 18 June 2012 - 07:48 AM.


#18 Marbles

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 08:07 AM

No, but did it actually happen ?

I mean to ask did Ayesha really advocate such depravity ? It's obnoxious beyond imagination .


The narration comes from Sunni books and their books are filled with fabrications and falsehood whether it is about the Ahlul Bayt, Khulafa or Umhaat. Believing that Ayesha did let this happen is akin to allowing this particular narration, and for that matter other narrations in Sunni books which are believed to be narrated by/from Ayesha, a fair chance of being true.

It should be a non-issue for the Shia. Just take this and other such narrations with a table spoon of salt. You wouldn't want to read the stories found in Sunni hadith books, believed to be narrated by no other than Ayesha herself, about how much the Prophet loved her, and details about the intimate and romantic moments she shared with her blessed husband. Those narrations became the basis of the anti-Prophet book called "Rangeela Rasool" (Playboy Prophet) authored by a Hindu.

Should it be that shocking? After all this woman is the daughter of the vile Abu Bakr and she did some pretty horrible things in her time, going to war with Imam Ali (as) refusing to allow Imam Hassan (as) to be buried near his beloved Grandfather amongst other things.

This breastfeeding disgrace (as gross as it is) is small compared to her other deeds


It shouldn't be shocking becuse seeing such narrations are found in Sunni hadith books which are filled with thousands of fabrications. Simply put, this is more likely to be a fairytale than a true incident.

#19 titumir

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:01 AM

No, but did it actually happen ?

I mean to ask did Ayesha really advocate such depravity ? It's obnoxious beyond imagination .


Of course, we cannot be 100% sure, but the following ahadith are recorded in Sahih Muslim AND Malik's Muwatta, in the same fashion:

1. Ayesha claimed that this was allowed
2. All other wives disclaimed this idea and did not allow any man to see them in this fashion.

Now, if it was fake, then I argue that the hadith would say that the other wives allowed it as well. Whoever would go to the trouble of manufacturing hadith in favour of adult breastfeeding, surely would not manufacture some anti-ahadith from the other wives. However, we see that all the hadith state that ayesha was in favour and all other wives against it. This could only happen if it was true.



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