Jump to content


- - - -


Photo
- - - - -

Age Of Hazrat Khadija On Marriage


42 replies to this topic

#1 mightymac

mightymac
  • Basic Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 09 February 2010 - 07:31 AM

(salam)
sunni sources say that hazrat khadija's age was 40 when she was married to our beloved prophet (mpbuh). also they say that she was married twice before.
i have heard in a majlis that these traditions are false and many shias are also under this misconception,neither was she 40 yrs old at the time of her marriage to the holy prophet (mpbuh). can someone clarify on this matter. some sunni sources also say that our beloved prophet had two other daughters besides hazrat fatima(s.a) to which shia reply that thay were hazrat khadija's daughters from her previous marriages, their names are said to be zainab and umme khulthum. now if hazrat khadija was not
married previously according to some shiias how did she have two daughters from her previous marriage. this is quite confusing . please can someone help me clarify this

#2 FatimaZahra

FatimaZahra

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 254 posts
  • Location:Wish to be with Qaim (as)
  • Interests:Shia islam, Ahlul bayt, great women of islam

Posted 09 February 2010 - 10:50 AM

(salam) (bismillah)
Bibi khadija (sa) was 40, prophet muhammad (pbuh) was 25, and also, zainab and umm kulthum were not from her previous husbands, they were from prophet muhammad (pbuh), im pretty sure she didnt have children from the previous husbands, and if she did, they werent zainab or umm kulthum, those 2 daughters were from muhammad (pbuh), same for her daughter ruqayya

#3 Basim Ali

Basim Ali

    Unity - in all walks of life

  • Mods
  • 4,679 posts
  • Interests:Servitude of my Lord and the closest ones to Him

Posted 09 February 2010 - 11:03 AM

(salam),
I request members not to comment on things they are not very sure about.
From Syed A.A Razwy's book Khadija tul Kubra:
\\*Most of the Muslim historians have stated that Khadija was 40-years old when she married Muhammed Mustafa. So many historians have repeated this figure that now it is believed as a gospel truth. Yet this figure is open to question on the following grounds:

No historian knows the year in which Khadija was born. The figure "40" is only an estimate, and it is an over-estimate. Whereas it is true that Khadija was older than Muhammed Mustafa, she was not 15 years older as claimed by most of the historians, but only a few years older than him.

Arabia is a very hot country, and Arab girls reach maturity much more rapidly than girls do in cold or temperate climates. Hadhrat Ayesha is said to have been married when she was only eleven years old. Other Arab girls were also married quite early.

In a country like Arabia, a woman could not spend forty years of her life waiting to be married. At forty, the best years of a woman's life are already behind her - in Arabia or in any other country. But even if she marries at forty, she cannot entertain any hope of having children. Even in cold and temperate zones, a woman, in most cases, is past her child-bearing age at 40. In Arabia, this happens, probably, much earlier.

Khadija spent many years of her life in the single state. As noted before, she received many offers of marriage from the lords and princes of Arabia but she turned them down. They could not impress her with their wealth. If they were rich, she was immeasurably richer than the richest of them. And in such personal qualities as the qualities of head, hand and heart, all of them were like the dust of her feet. Anyone trying to impress her with his wealth or power would be naive, if not foolish, indeed. Therefore, she marked time until the man who really impressed her - Muhammed Mustafa - came along, and she married him.
*//

About her previous marriages, he has written:
\\*Khadija was never married before she married Muhammed Mustafa. Her marriage with Muhammed was her first and last marriage. The same historians who have claimed that Khadija was married twice before she married Muhammed, have reported that all the lords of Quraysh and the princes of the Arabs, sought her hand in marriage but she didn't condescend to consider any of them for a matrimonial alliance. If she had been married twice before, she ought to have had no hesitation in marrying a third time.*//

Furthermore, al-Hakim in his al-Mustadrak states that she was 28 not 40 years old when she married the Prophet.

You might also want to read this:
http://www.al-islam....k/msg00083.html

wa (salam)

Edited by Basim Ali, 09 February 2010 - 11:04 AM.


#4 ayaz_zaidi

ayaz_zaidi
  • Basic Members
  • 2 posts
  • Religion:Islam, Shia

Posted 09 April 2010 - 02:42 AM

Nice post Basim,

I need a reference, have a look at

http://www.shiachat....tpbuh-children/

anyone?

#5 Gypsy

Gypsy

    Hal Min Nasirin Yansurna

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,509 posts
  • Interests:Exposing hypocrisy and double standards.

Posted 11 April 2010 - 11:10 AM

(salam)
I've actually read few of the hadith about Khadija's (sa) age that stated she was 28 years old (Brother Basim has posted few) while other stated she was 40.

Even if she was 28, to some folks Khadija (as) was probably an old lady. I disagree. In 570 AD Arabia, the last thing you keep track off is age of a woman. Don't you find it strange that people can remember Khadija’s and Ayesha's age as if they had a birth certificate while they couldn't even figure out how to do a proper wudu (Please read 'wash or wipe' debate in the Shia Sunni forum)

Whatever her age was, She is still the most accomplished woman in the whole of Islamic history. She was a successful businesswoman. A very pious and the most generous lady in Arabia. The Holy Prophet loved Khadija (sa) soo much.

When she died, :( the Holy Prophet lost his best friend and his most closest confidante. Even after marrying a number of other women in the later part of his life, he could never forget Khadija(sa) and none of his other wives came anywhere close to being as virtuous as Khadija(sa).

#6 texas_muslimah

texas_muslimah

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 105 posts
  • Religion:Islam
  • Interests:Spending time with my dear husband

Posted 17 May 2010 - 06:13 AM

Arabia is a very hot country, and Arab girls reach maturity much more rapidly than girls do in cold or temperate climates. Hadhrat Ayesha is said to have been married when she was only eleven years old. Other Arab girls were also married quite early.




I was always taught Aisha married at 6, and the marriage was consumated at age 9... This was actually the first time I have ever read the number 11.... please explain (not trying to be argumentative, this is just what I was taught so I would love the true information).

#7 Yasoob Al Deen

Yasoob Al Deen

    Terminated

  • Unregistered
  • PipPip
  • 523 posts

Posted 17 May 2010 - 04:22 PM

I was always taught Aisha married at 6, and the marriage was consumated at age 9... This was actually the first time I have ever read the number 11.... please explain (not trying to be argumentative, this is just what I was taught so I would love the true information).


Assalam alaykum.
Aisha was not 6/9 at the time of her marriage/consumation. See http://www.understan...m/ri/mi-005.htm for an excellent discussion on this issue. Note particularly that Hisham ibn Urwah is an unreliable narrator (in Iraq). She was definitely older than this commonly stated age. Her real age is unknown, although different people make different guesses.
Salam.

#8 texas_muslimah

texas_muslimah

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 105 posts
  • Religion:Islam
  • Interests:Spending time with my dear husband

Posted 17 May 2010 - 06:51 PM

Assalam alaykum.
Aisha was not 6/9 at the time of her marriage/consumation. See http://www.understan...m/ri/mi-005.htm for an excellent discussion on this issue. Note particularly that Hisham ibn Urwah is an unreliable narrator (in Iraq). She was definitely older than this commonly stated age. Her real age is unknown, although different people make different guesses.
Salam.


That was really interesting, and quite helpful! Jazakallahu khair! Thank you so much for this!

I wonder why is it then that so many stand by the age of 6 and of 9?

Also, I have another question... I recall reading a hadith that talks about the prophet visiting Aisha while they were married and she was playing with a doll... that seems to imply that she is a child... do you know of this hadith? It may in fact be narrated by Aisha herself... I am not sure.

#9 bi_ithnillaah

bi_ithnillaah

    ÇáÓáÇã Úáì ãä ÇÊÈÚ ÇáåÏì

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 573 posts
  • Religion:ÇáÇÓáÇã
  • Interests:tashayyu.org

Posted 17 May 2010 - 07:28 PM

I wonder why is it then that so many stand by the age of 6 and of 9?

(bismillah)

There are sunni ahadeeth that state 6 for marriage and 9 for consummation , and most sunnis don't know the discrepancies regarding the age. Also, those ahadeeth that specify the 6 & 9 are in "Sahih" Bukhari and "Sahih" Muslim. Naturally an every day sunni is going to assume it to be true.


Also, I have another question... I recall reading a hadith that talks about the prophet visiting Aisha while they were married and she was playing with a doll... that seems to imply that she is a child... do you know of this hadith? It may in fact be narrated by Aisha herself... I am not sure.


[ Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 73 :: Hadeeth 151 ]
Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me.


[ Muslim :: Book 31 : Hadeeth 5981 ]
'A'isha reported that she used to play with dolls in the presence of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah's Messenger, whereas Allah's Messenger sent them to her.



When looking up the ahadeeth I came across something else pretty interesting:
[ Muslim :: Book 8 : Hadeeth 3311 ]
'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

Interesting when we compare "Sahih" Muslim saying 7 and then later saying 6..
[ Muslim :: Book 8 : Hadeeth 3309 ]
'A'isha reported: Allah's Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.

Edited by bi_ithnillaah, 17 May 2010 - 07:39 PM.


#10 texas_muslimah

texas_muslimah

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 105 posts
  • Religion:Islam
  • Interests:Spending time with my dear husband

Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:14 PM

Why would Aisha lie/mis state her own age in marriage? If Aisha narrated this herself, why would it be unreliable? Is it because of a narrator that came after her that could have fabricated that she even said this?

#11 bi_ithnillaah

bi_ithnillaah

    ÇáÓáÇã Úáì ãä ÇÊÈÚ ÇáåÏì

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 573 posts
  • Religion:ÇáÇÓáÇã
  • Interests:tashayyu.org

Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:26 PM

Why would Aisha lie/mis state her own age in marriage? If Aisha narrated this herself, why would it be unreliable? Is it because of a narrator that came after her that could have fabricated that she even said this?


Allaahu a'lim. Everyone has their reasons for whatever they do. But if you'd like a theory of why she lied about this particular issue, I've heard an interesting one. Back in those times being a very young virgin was considered to be better than being someone older when getting married. So her telling everyone "yeah I was 9 when I went to the Prophet's house for marriage" makes her look _really_ good in her society's perception and raises her level of respect.

We don't accept any ahadeeth narrated by Aisha. It's not even about who comes after her. But I'm not ruling out the possibility of someone fabricating against her either. Keep in mind, Aisha has narrated the second most amount of ahadeeth in Sunni books, second only to Abu Hurayra who we also consider an unreliable narrator. There are so many ahadeeth that she has narrated that are completely rejected based solely on their context (like contradiction to Qur'an or other sahih ahadeeth, etc). So yes, it is possible someone fabricated against her, but the likelihood of ALL her ahadeeth being fabrications against her is very, very small. Not to mention, the scholars have a system in determining reliability. So they judge Aisha not just based on her own ahadeeth, but but based on her bibliography, historical evidence, and what other ahadeeth say about her. Trying searching around a little and you may find a thread on this topic. The unreliability of ahadeeth by Aisha is not a small topic but after reading the evidences put forth you may understand.

#12 texas_muslimah

texas_muslimah

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 105 posts
  • Religion:Islam
  • Interests:Spending time with my dear husband

Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:36 PM

Allaahu a'lim. Everyone has their reasons for whatever they do. But if you'd like a theory of why she lied about this particular issue, I've heard an interesting one. Back in those times being a very young virgin was considered to be better than being someone older when getting married. So her telling everyone "yeah I was 9 when I went to the Prophet's house for marriage" makes her look _really_ good in her society's perception and raises her level of respect.

We don't accept any ahadeeth narrated by Aisha. It's not even about who comes after her. But I'm not ruling out the possibility of someone fabricating against her either. Keep in mind, Aisha has narrated the second most amount of ahadeeth in Sunni books, second only to Abu Hurayra who we also consider an unreliable narrator. There are so many ahadeeth that she has narrated that are completely rejected based solely on their context (like contradiction to Qur'an or other sahih ahadeeth, etc). So yes, it is possible someone fabricated against her, but the likelihood of ALL her ahadeeth being fabrications against her is very, very small. Not to mention, the scholars have a system in determining reliability. So they judge Aisha not just based on her own ahadeeth, but but based on her bibliography, historical evidence, and what other ahadeeth say about her. Trying searching around a little and you may find a thread on this topic. The unreliability of ahadeeth by Aisha is not a small topic but after reading the evidences put forth you may understand.


Thank you brother, you are very well informed!

#13 janali

janali

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 302 posts

Posted 17 May 2010 - 11:11 PM

Biography of Khadija is in Sayed Ammar's Ramadhan 2008 series (sayedammar.com) where he discusses she being 28

#14 Basim Ali

Basim Ali

    Unity - in all walks of life

  • Mods
  • 4,679 posts
  • Interests:Servitude of my Lord and the closest ones to Him

Posted 18 May 2010 - 03:19 AM

Here's a long answer from Sunnipath.com about Ayesha's age at marriage:
http://qa.sunnipath....&ID=4604&CATE=1

It's basically disagreeing with the fact that she was 6 when she married, in the light of ahadith, ofcourse.

wa (salam)

#15 texas_muslimah

texas_muslimah

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 105 posts
  • Religion:Islam
  • Interests:Spending time with my dear husband

Posted 18 May 2010 - 10:03 AM

Here's a long answer from Sunnipath.com about Ayesha's age at marriage:
http://qa.sunnipath....&ID=4604&CATE=1

It's basically disagreeing with the fact that she was 6 when she married, in the light of ahadith, ofcourse.

wa (salam)


You should read this article through again, because it is listing arguments that she was not 6/9 and then refuting them. It is actually saying reasons why the young age was in fact correct. It also gives many examples of others who married girls as young as nine. It also says the daughter of Ali and Fatimah (umm kalthum) was nine when she married Umar. I am not making a judgement or an opinion on this, simply stating that you are confused about the meaning of this article. This article is saying the opposite of what you are arguing.

This article argues Aisha was nine at the time of consummation.

#16 Basim Ali

Basim Ali

    Unity - in all walks of life

  • Mods
  • 4,679 posts
  • Interests:Servitude of my Lord and the closest ones to Him

Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:01 PM

(salam),
^ :huh:
Uhhm... are you sure you read the entire article? :unsure:
Look what the author concludes at the end:

These are some of the major points that go against accepting the commonly known narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage. In my opinion, neither was it an Arab tradition to give away girls in marriage at an age as young as nine or ten years, nor did the Prophet marry Ayesha at such a young age. The people of Arabia did not object to this marriage, because it never happened in the manner it has been narrated.


*reads article again*
Wow... am I missing something, here? :unsure:

wa (salam)

#17 Yasoob Al Deen

Yasoob Al Deen

    Terminated

  • Unregistered
  • PipPip
  • 523 posts

Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:15 PM

You should read this article through again, because it is listing arguments that she was not 6/9 and then refuting them. It is actually saying reasons why the young age was in fact correct. It also gives many examples of others who married girls as young as nine. It also says the daughter of Ali and Fatimah (umm kalthum) was nine when she married Umar. I am not making a judgement or an opinion on this, simply stating that you are confused about the meaning of this article. This article is saying the opposite of what you are arguing.

This article argues Aisha was nine at the time of consummation.


I have tried to avoid saying much concerning this, because we are hijacking the original point of thread, but it's necessary to point out two things.
1) Umm Kulthum did not marry Umar ibn al-Khattab. This is a false Sunni rumour propogated for the purpose of pretending that there was no hostility or disagreements between Imam Ali, peace be upon him and Umar. See what answering-ansar.org or sdol.org says on this, for example.
2) That article is rubbish.

For example, a small response:

- Abu Tughlub ibn Hamdan married the daughter of `Izz al-Dawla Bakhtyar when she was three and paid a dowry of 100,000 dinars. This took place in Safar 360 H. (Ibn al-Athir, al-Kamil).- Al-Shafi`i in al-Umm reported that he saw countless examples of nine-year old pubescent girls in Yemen. Al-Bayhaqi also narrates it from him in the Sunan al-Kubra as does al-Dhahabi in the Siyar.- Al-Bayhaqi narrated with his chains in his Sunan al-Kubra no less than three examples of Muslim wives that gave birth at age nine or ten.


Apart from the probably weak chains in all these reports, they prove nothing whatsoever. They do not give the slightest piece of historical evidence that Aisha was 9 years old. These reports may attempt to deal with the scientific improbable claim of girls maturing as children, but that's not the relevant discussion here. The discussion here is concerning historical evidence.

- Hisham ibn `Urwa himself (whom the objector claims to know enough to forward the most barefaced judgments on his reliability) married Fatima bint al-Mundhir when she was nine years old (al-Muntazam and Tarikh Baghdad).


1) How on earth does Hisham marrying a female who was 9 years old support the common myth that Aisha was 9 years old?
2) The objector did not "claim to know" and "forward the most barefaced judgements on his reliability. This is nothing short of ridiculous. The objector actually quoted two books of the biography of narrators which showed that Hisham ibn Urwah in general or specifically in Iraq is an unreliable narrator.

- Our liege-lord `Umar married Umm Kulthum the daughter of `Ali and Fatima at a similar age per `Abd al-Razzaq, Ibn `Abd al-Barr and others.


A Sunni myth. See answering-ansar.org or sdol.org for some refutations on this.

- And our Mother `Aisha herself was first almost betrothed to Jubayr ibn Mut`im before her father dropped that option when he received word from the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless and greet him and be well-pleased with them.


Again, how on earth does this refute the numerous arguments given by the "objector"? In-fact it strengthens the argument that Aisha was not a child, since the fact that she had been engaged before shows she had quite likely been baligh. Remember the Prophet supposedly married her when she was 6. How young was Abu Bakr really considering giving her away? As soon as she can walk and talk? Lol no. The Shia might have their differences with Abu Bakr, but Abu Bakr was still an honourable and sensible man (to some extent at least).

Try more than eleven authorities among the Tabi`in that reported it directly from `A'isha, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha.


These chains contain Hisham bin Urwah. Obviously the chain is traced back to the Successors and then back to the Companions. It wouldn't be a complete chain if it didn't. It proves nothing that the name of a Companion or Successor is mentioned in the chain, when later/more recently in the chain is the name of an unreliable narrator, as testified by the books concerning the biographies of narrators.
In no way does this refute the fact that "Most of these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn `Urwah, reporting on the authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported, should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three".

The article contains with its strawman arguments and other false arguments.


#18 Rohani

Rohani

    A Scholar is like a candle burning out to give others light.

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,289 posts
  • Location:Where Kilometers not miles
  • Religion:Ahle Tashayyu
  • Interests:Philosophy, Hawzah, Spending time with my wife :)

Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:15 PM

(salam)
I think she was 10 according to ayatollah sayyid fadlullah if i am wrong and it is 9 please someone correct me. in fiqh 9 is the age that consummation would be permissible. and there is no set age for marriage it self without sexual intercourse.

(wasalam)

Edited by AlMuttaqi, 18 May 2010 - 02:21 PM.


#19 Zanadine

Zanadine

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 730 posts

Posted 19 May 2010 - 11:34 AM

(salam)
sunni sources say that hazrat khadija's age was 40 when she was married to our beloved prophet (mpbuh). also they say that she was married twice before.
i have heard in a majlis that these traditions are false and many shias are also under this misconception,neither was she 40 yrs old at the time of her marriage to the holy prophet (mpbuh). can someone clarify on this matter. some sunni sources also say that our beloved prophet had two other daughters besides hazrat fatima(s.a) to which shia reply that thay were hazrat khadija's daughters from her previous marriages, their names are said to be zainab and umme khulthum. now if hazrat khadija was not
married previously according to some shiias how did she have two daughters from her previous marriage. this is quite confusing . please can someone help me clarify this


Salaam, Have have those hadith in shia books as well.. in regards to Janabe Khadija and her daughters. but again we have hadith and research that claims that the two other daughters were not of the Prophet of Allah (S) and they were from Khadija's sisters orphan daughters. but our Prophet treated them to be as his. I believe he gave one to Uthman and after she passed away.. he gave another to him again. I know .. i know.. you must be thinking Uthman the criminal.. why did the prophet actually do that..?

also, both of these ladies did not produce a child..they were barrens.. this is agreed by all the historians sunni and shia.. so the linage of the Prophet was only through Fatima.

but there is strong research which proves that those are bibi khadija's sister's orphan daughters. and its possible that at that time, uthman presented himself as a gentlemen.

Allama majlisi 's biography of the Prophet also says that he had 4 daughters.. including fatima.. but only fatima produced children. for some odd reason none of the Prophets wives produced children.. except only one .. who died in his infancy.. and none of the Prophet step daughters or adopted daughters were able to produce children. Its definitely divine intervention.. Allah only wanted Imam Ali (S) Imam Hasan, (S) Imam Husain (S) to be the heirs of the Prophet. (S). but still.. abubakr , Ayesha, Mawiya, Hafza started claiming that they are also Qurash.. no less then ahlulbayt.. some scholars in wahabi, salafi, sunni try to also claim that the father in laws.. and the brother in laws.. and the barren wives are also the successor to the Prophet along with Imam AlI (S). out of greed.. to confuse the masses and to fullfill their lust for power and lust to appear rich. Allah prevented the Prophet having children from other wives.. prevented his adopted daughters from having children.. so there would be no heirs to the Prophet except for Imam Ali (S) Imam Husain (S), Hasan.(S).etc. still they Abubakr, Ayesha Umar, Hafza did fitna.. upon fitna..

#20 Zanadine

Zanadine

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 730 posts

Posted 19 May 2010 - 12:25 PM

(salam)
sunni sources say that hazrat khadija's age was 40 when she was married to our beloved prophet (mpbuh). also they say that she was married twice before.
i have heard in a majlis that these traditions are false and many shias are also under this misconception,neither was she 40 yrs old at the time of her marriage to the holy prophet (mpbuh). can someone clarify on this matter. some sunni sources also say that our beloved prophet had two other daughters besides hazrat fatima(s.a) to which shia reply that thay were hazrat khadija's daughters from her previous marriages, their names are said to be zainab and umme khulthum. now if hazrat khadija was not
married previously according to some shiias how did she have two daughters from her previous marriage. this is quite confusing . please can someone help me clarify this



Ayesha claims that Janabe Khadija was old.. had gray hair .. and she was very jealous of her memory.. the way the prophet (S) used to miss her and remember her. She is the one who put her down in the history books.. its her narrations and she lied that she was the most favorite wife .. since her father became the ruling party after the prophet's death through sedition, coup de dat, conspiracy .. she with her father became powerful.. the media was always after them.. they paid the media to write whatever their version to the history.. So Ayesha exaggerated and self boasted about her age, looks, and how (nauzbillah) the prophet went krazy about her. because she was the only virgin ............. and how Khadija was not good looking. old.. and missing teeth.. its her narrations mostly..

as regarding the adopted daughters of Khadija.. its not possible due because the birthdates do not match.. their birth date is before the marriage of the Prophet.

#21 89jghur32

89jghur32

    Member

  • Unregistered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,832 posts
  • Religion:ÇáÅÓáÇã
  • Interests:Implementing the Amman Message

Posted 20 May 2010 - 01:00 AM

2) That article is rubbish.

The article contains with its strawman arguments and other false arguments.[/size]


Go back and reread the article because you missed the point, which was to counteract the commonly held view amongst (modern) Sunnis that Sayeda Aisha (ra) was betrothed to the Prophet (pbuh) at the age of nine. The article brings together all of the claims about her birthday and her age at the time of her marriage to create a comprehensive argument that she couldn't have been nine when she was married.

Salaam, Have have those hadith in shia books as well.. in regards to Janabe Khadija and her daughters. but again we have hadith and research that claims that the two other daughters were not of the Prophet of Allah (S) and they were from Khadija's sisters orphan daughters. but our Prophet treated them to be as his. I believe he gave one to Uthman and after she passed away.. he gave another to him again. I know .. i know.. you must be thinking Uthman the criminal.. why did the prophet actually do that..?

also, both of these ladies did not produce a child..they were barrens.. this is agreed by all the historians sunni and shia.. so the linage of the Prophet was only through Fatima.

but there is strong research which proves that those are bibi khadija's sister's orphan daughters. and its possible that at that time, uthman presented himself as a gentlemen.

Allama majlisi 's biography of the Prophet also says that he had 4 daughters.. including fatima.. but only fatima produced children. for some odd reason none of the Prophets wives produced children.. except only one .. who died in his infancy.. and none of the Prophet step daughters or adopted daughters were able to produce children. Its definitely divine intervention.. Allah only wanted Imam Ali (S) Imam Hasan, (S) Imam Husain (S) to be the heirs of the Prophet. (S). but still.. abubakr , Ayesha, Mawiya, Hafza started claiming that they are also Qurash.. no less then ahlulbayt.. some scholars in wahabi, salafi, sunni try to also claim that the father in laws.. and the brother in laws.. and the barren wives are also the successor to the Prophet along with Imam AlI (S). out of greed.. to confuse the masses and to fullfill their lust for power and lust to appear rich. Allah prevented the Prophet having children from other wives.. prevented his adopted daughters from having children.. so there would be no heirs to the Prophet except for Imam Ali (S) Imam Husain (S), Hasan.(S).etc. still they Abubakr, Ayesha Umar, Hafza did fitna.. upon fitna..


The label Rawafid seems quite fitting here. It seems that Shi'ites reject even their own classical scholars.

#22 Zanadine

Zanadine

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 730 posts

Posted 20 May 2010 - 04:27 AM

I was always taught Aisha married at 6, and the marriage was consumated at age 9... This was actually the first time I have ever read the number 11.... please explain (not trying to be argumentative, this is just what I was taught so I would love the true information).



according to some research.. she was 20 to 22 when the prophet married Ayesha. it was a habit of Ayesha to make herself appear to be very young.

Go back and reread the article because you missed the point, which was to counteract the commonly held view amongst (modern) Sunnis that Sayeda Aisha (ra) was betrothed to the Prophet (pbuh) at the age of nine. The article brings together all of the claims about her birthday and her age at the time of her marriage to create a comprehensive argument that she couldn't have been nine when she was married.



The label Rawafid seems quite fitting here. It seems that Shi'ites reject even their own classical scholars.



Remember for almost every hadith.. they are 3 to 5 versions ... at first it was only one hadith. later on Ayesha added her hadith.. for every hadith .. a duplicated similar hadith but with distorted, contamination in it.

for example... it is quiet clear from all sects of Islam.. from every sahih sitta and all sunni, shia hadith that the prophet left Quran and Ahlulbyat. all hadith have recorded it. but then Ayesha and her best friends start narrating a hadith which ommits the name Ahlulbayt.

for example. out of 7 versions of the Prophets last will and testament. 5 claim that the prophet left (Quran and ahlulbayt) in charge of the Islamic state. only 2 in sunni books claim that the Prophet left Quran and Sunnah.

So, this is a contamination, distortion.. but we go with what ALL SECTS AGREE to find the truth. not just what your scholars say.

as regarding the daughters of Khadija. the birthdates do not match. the birth of the Prophet marriage to Khadija .. next year Fatima was born. and fatima was they youngest. so this proves that they were not his daughters. and .... there is a research on it.

Zanadine.

#23 Basim Ali

Basim Ali

    Unity - in all walks of life

  • Mods
  • 4,679 posts
  • Interests:Servitude of my Lord and the closest ones to Him

Posted 20 May 2010 - 11:51 AM

It seems that Shi'ites reject even their own classical scholars.

Yeah, ignorant ones, that is. Because there are some sources that say the Prophet (pbuh) has only one biological daughter, the issue is debatable.

But last time I checked, not agreeing with a scholar ≠ rejecting them, as a whole.


wa (salam)

Edited by Basim Ali, 20 May 2010 - 11:56 AM.


#24 bi_ithnillaah

bi_ithnillaah

    ÇáÓáÇã Úáì ãä ÇÊÈÚ ÇáåÏì

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 573 posts
  • Religion:ÇáÇÓáÇã
  • Interests:tashayyu.org

Posted 20 May 2010 - 02:01 PM

The label Rawafid seems quite fitting here. It seems that Shi'ites reject even their own classical scholars.


Majlisi is _one_ scholar out of how many? Look back into your scholars, will you say not one scholar _ever_ contradicts another?

Not to mention, Majlisi was more of a recompiler, not one to accurately learn Islaam from.

#25 Zanadine

Zanadine

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 730 posts

Posted 21 May 2010 - 04:03 AM

Why would Aisha lie/mis state her own age in marriage? If Aisha narrated this herself, why would it be unreliable? Is it because of a narrator that came after her that could have fabricated that she even said this?



Ayesha made her self look very young.. and she thought to get respect.. lie.. exaggerate.. and hype it up.. she made herself Prophets favorite when she was NOT.. she had power because of her father .. her father became the Caliph.. took over Islamic rule.. So they got rich, influential and got a lot of attention.. Ayesha fabricated lies upon lies in regards to her being the most favorite to the Prophet.. in regards to youngest.. but she lied that she was very young. according to research, there is a strong possibility that she was not even 16 or 18.. she had to be 20 to 22.. she made herself look like a fantasy girl.. but its all false.. she made the prophet look bad.. marrying for virginity and looks, etc. when the prophet did not do so.. there is no doubt that Abubakr married her off to the Prophet to gain importance in the society as his father in law... and be among the Prophets household. because the prophet's household.. were going to succeed.. but God made those inherit the prophet in knowledge and in charge of the Islamic state.. only those who are related to him by blood (kith and kin) not wives nor father in laws, nor brother in laws.. there were over 10 father in laws and maybe more then 20 brother in laws.. and more then 10 wives.. none of them were fit to be in charge of the Islamic state and to inherit knowledge, wisdom. only it was Ali (S) (his cousin and son in law, Fatima (S) his daughter, Hasan and Husain).

Its Abubakr, Umar, Ayesha, Hafsa who gave the prophet a bad name.. Islam a bad name.. then later more and more fabricated hadith appeared by Mawiya, Yazeed for the sake for personal greed, selfishness, and unbelief.

Zanadine.

Go back and reread the article because you missed the point, which was to counteract the commonly held view amongst (modern) Sunnis that Sayeda Aisha (ra) was betrothed to the Prophet (pbuh) at the age of nine. The article brings together all of the claims about her birthday and her age at the time of her marriage to create a comprehensive argument that she couldn't have been nine when she was married.



The label Rawafid seems quite fitting here. It seems that Shi'ites reject even their own classical scholars.



Allama Majlisi's biography is like a compilation of the prophets life.. its not exactly a biography .. its an encylopedia of the prophets life. so they are weak and authentic hadith in it.. the weak hadith is the Prophet having more then one daughter. 2 died in his lifetime.. both of them were married to Uthman. according to researchers.. Uthman did not treat them well because they were not the Prophet's real daughter..

there is a story of when the adopted daughter of the Prophet was dying.. that night she was in pain.. death pains.. and uthman was enjoying sexual intercourse with his other wives.. that means he has not much love for her.. the prophet embarrassed him at her funeral.. when uthman was getting ready to into the grave.. the prophet said, Last night if anyone had sexual intercourse do not enter the grave.. Uthman stopped .. (he had sexual intercourse with his other wife).. the sahabas were shocked at this heartlessness of uthman.. and his treatment towards the beloved adopted daughter of Prophet. uthman got embarrassed ..

Zanadine.



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users