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Reply To Nasibis Against Abdul Kareem Mushtaq


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#1 Syed Demanding

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 07:25 AM

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Salaam,
....
I Have No Idea,What Nawasibs Tries To Prove From These Pages,
..
I Have Taken Them From An Anti-Shia Site,I Was Surprised How They Twisted His Words,
...
What He Actually Says:_

Abdul Kareem Mushtaq Shaheed Has Actually Explained The 'Mushaf' (copy) of

Imams [as], That Has Been Passed On By Every Imam [as] To The Next One Which

Currently Is With The Imam e Zaman [as]. At The Same Time He Has Compared That

Copy Of Quran With The Sunni Belief On The Copy Of Quran Which We All Muslims

Have, i.e. Sunnies Believe That This Is Not The Complete One As Ibn Umar

Testified That Most Of Its Part Has Been Lost. So Its The Sunnies Who Need To

Answer The Comment Of Abdul Kareem Mushtaq Not Us. As For His List Of Qualities

About The Copy Which Imams Of Ahlulbayt [as] Have Possessed, This Is Not

Something New, We All Know From Shia Traditions (as well as some Sunni traditions)

That The First Imam, Ali bin Abi Talib [as] Had Collected The Quran According To Its

Revelation, i.e., In The Order In Which It Had Been Sent Down. This Is The Reason

That Sunni Imam, Muhammad Ibn Sireen (33/653 - 110/729), The Famous

Scholar And Tabi'i (disciples of the companions of the Holy Prophet), Regretted That

This Transcript Had Not Passed Into The Hands Of The Muslims, And Said: "If

that transcript were in our hands, we would found a great knowledge in it.".

Abdul kareem Mushtaq Shaheed Has Referred To The Very 'Great Knowledge'

Contained By The Compilation Of Imam [as] Which Sunni Imam Ibn Sireen Had

pointed out.
....
They Have Just Twisted His Words:-

The Point Is That The Author Is Talking About The Copy Of Quran Which Is Preserved

With The Imams [as] Only, Which Contain The Past And Future Events, The Authentic

Tafseer Of Every Single Verse, In Short, That Copy Is The Essence Of (all sorts of)

Knowledge. The Author Has Mentioned Pakistan As An One Such Example. And Then The

Author Has Compated This Copy Of Quran With The Sunni Belief Of Quran According To

Which, Most Of The Quran Has Been Lost Or There Are Some Mistakes In Quran.
.....
Almost every time when there is a debate of Nasibis with Momins

They present us the Aqeedah of Abdul Kareem Mushtaq who according to them beliefs that Quran is tempered.

The reason is because Abdul Kareem Mushtaq was a Sunni,,,, then he converted to Shia after self reading and doing Tehqeeq from Quran and Sunnah.

So nasibis can tolerate this man because he wrote many books on the Accusations of nasibis against Shias..

I personally has learned very much from Abdul Kareem Mushtaq(his books).

Here i m giving Scan page of the Book of Abdul Kareem Mushtaq who openly declares His and Shia Aqeedah about Quran


He says

:-

"Hum Elaniya wazih kerte hain ke Shian e AhlyBait mojooda Quran ko Manzil MinALLAH, Ghair Muharif mante hain jo Shaks Quran mein kami zyadti ka hona hamari taraf Nisbat karey wo Kazib or Muftari hai, tamam Ithna Ashari shiayon ka yehee aqeedah hai"


Book:-

Shia Mazhab Haq hai Page 101

Author:- Abdul Kareem Mushtaq(ar)

Outer Title of Book
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Inner Title
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Quran is Pure,free from errors,we dont believe in Tehreef of Quran
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#2 firqa tu najiyyah

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 04:02 AM

the scan you provided from http://www.*****************.com have actually cleared a lot already , like the quran which imam mehdi has is "complete" (so is the one we have incomplete?), Pakistan exitence is mentioned in that, And the incidents that occured in past and that will occur in future is mentioned in that, And the quran is in correct order which is with imam . etc)

whatelse you need?

As for this quote:

Hum Elaniya wazih kerte hain ke Shian e AhlyBait mojooda Quran ko Manzil MinALLAH, Ghair Muharif mante hain jo Shaks Quran mein kami zyadti ka hona hamari taraf Nisbat karey wo Kazib or Muftari hai, tamam Ithna Ashari shiayon ka yehee aqeedah hai"


lets see what some ithna ashari have to say about this:

Twelve Imami Shias today have three views regarding the existing Quran; (1) a minor proportion of them believe that it is in original sequence and the script is promised to be protected and preserved by Allahswt; (2) a large number of them, accept it as an unaltered manuscript, but its revelation sequence has been changed and is not in order as descended onto Prophetsaww; (3) another fraction believe that it has been doctored by the companions of Prophetsaww during the time of first three Muslim Caliphs and it is neither according to its revelation sequence nor without alterations.

A large number of masomeensws’s traditions clearly demonstrate that the existing Quranic Vulgate (the 'Uthmanic version) was doctored by companions of the Prophetsaww. However, the first two Shia groups, believe that these traditions are unreliable (Nozubilllah) and rather follow the judgement of prominent Shia scholars of who came after the Ghiabat-e-Qubra era and developed this view.

you can refer to hubeali.com (who too are ithna ashari, but not usooli but akhbari)

now as you may see that, he said (tamam itna ashari ka ye aqeeda hai) Complete itna ashari have this belief, but its apparent from the words of a ithna ashari group themselves that they dont believe what karim mushtaq said.

SO NOW IN WHICH CATEGORY WILL YOU PUT HIS WORDS:

taqiyya or lie?

#3 Logic

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 05:51 AM

you can refer to hubeali.com (who too are ithna ashari, but not usooli but akhbari)

Since when did Akhbari views become of importance to the Usoolis?

#4 firqa tu najiyyah

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 06:12 AM

Since when did Akhbari views become of importance to the Usoolis?

first try to understand the point then open your mouth. Read my post twice or thrice , i hope you will get what i have proved.....

#5 Syed Demanding

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 06:39 AM

the scan you provided from http://www.*****************.com have actually cleared a lot already , like the quran which imam mehdi has is "complete" (so is the one we have incomplete?), Pakistan exitence is mentioned in that, And the incidents that occured in past and that will occur in future is mentioned in that, And the quran is in correct order which is with imam . etc)

whatelse you need?

As for this quote:


lets see what some ithna ashari have to say about this:

Twelve Imami Shias today have three views regarding the existing Quran; (1) a minor proportion of them believe that it is in original sequence and the script is promised to be protected and preserved by Allahswt; (2) a large number of them, accept it as an unaltered manuscript, but its revelation sequence has been changed and is not in order as descended onto Prophetsaww; (3) another fraction believe that it has been doctored by the companions of Prophetsaww during the time of first three Muslim Caliphs and it is neither according to its revelation sequence nor without alterations.

A large number of masomeensws’s traditions clearly demonstrate that the existing Quranic Vulgate (the 'Uthmanic version) was doctored by companions of the Prophetsaww. However, the first two Shia groups, believe that these traditions are unreliable (Nozubilllah) and rather follow the judgement of prominent Shia scholars of who came after the Ghiabat-e-Qubra era and developed this view.

you can refer to hubeali.com (who too are ithna ashari, but not usooli but akhbari)

now as you may see that, he said (tamam itna ashari ka ye aqeeda hai) Complete itna ashari have this belief, but its apparent from the words of a ithna ashari group themselves that they dont believe what karim mushtaq said.

SO NOW IN WHICH CATEGORY WILL YOU PUT HIS WORDS:

taqiyya or lie?

..
..
You Will Be Surprised To Know My Dear,
..
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Actually This Is A Deobandi Aqeedah
..
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...
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....


Now Open Your Mouth......

#6 firqa tu najiyyah

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 08:56 AM

..
..
You Will Be Surprised To Know My Dear,
..
Posted Image
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Actually This Is A Deobandi Aqeedah
..
Posted Image
...
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....


Now Open Your Mouth......


firstly im not a deobandi so this is not a hujjah for me.

Secondly , these are very old technique to change the topic or to go off the topic which is being discussed, its not what deobandi believed but its what karim mushtaq said.

THIRDLY EVEN IF WE BELIEVE THAT IT IS THE DEOBANDI AQEEDAH EVEN THAT IT DOESNT NEGATES WHAT KARIM MUSHATQ BELIEVED AND SAID, IT CONCLUDES THAT BOTH SHIAS AND DEOBANDIS BELIEVE IN THAT AQEEDAH. SO HOW IS YOUR POINT PROVED? :lol:

fourthly how will you defend karim mushtaq from his lie/taqiyya(choose any one) which i have proved?

#7 Syed Demanding

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 10:13 AM

firstly im not a deobandi so this is not a hujjah for me.

I Can't Understand That Why Deobandis Claims That They Belongs To Ahl Ul Sunnah :lol:
...

Secondly , these are very old technique to change the topic or to go off the topic which is being discussed, its not what deobandi believed but its what karim mushtaq said

...
That's Why You Posted The Deobandis Aqeedah For Us In Your Post?
...

THIRDLY EVEN IF WE BELIEVE THAT IT IS THE DEOBANDI AQEEDAH EVEN THAT IT DOESNT NEGATES WHAT KARIM MUSHATQ BELIEVED AND SAID, IT CONCLUDES THAT BOTH SHIAS AND DEOBANDIS BELIEVE IN THAT AQEEDAH. SO HOW IS YOUR POINT PROVED?

...
Cheers For Momins,A Sunni Has Admitted That Deobandis Have Aqeeda E Tehreef !!! :squeez:
..

fourthly how will you defend karim mushtaq from his lie/taqiyya(choose any one) which i have proved?

....
Beacuse No Shia,No Shia Believes In Distortion In Quran,That's What Sunni's People Believes,
..
Karim Mushtaq Explained Sunnis View In First Two Scans,
..
And Last Two Scan Pages Are What He/WE Believes

#8 firqa tu najiyyah

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 02:34 PM

I Can't Understand That Why Deobandis Claims That They Belongs To Ahl Ul Sunnah

Cheers For Momins,A Sunni Has Admitted That Deobandis Have Aqeeda E Tehreef !!!


Admitted???? I said: (even if we believe) it was an assumption buddy just for sake of argument.

anyways here a tasty dish for you enjoy it, it will add some more cheer to your party. :lol:

http://forums.islami...8851-post2.html

(it answers the allegation made on anwar shah kashmiri)


That's Why You Posted The Deobandis Aqeedah For Us In Your Post?


blatant lie.(but i know you are used to these)


Beacuse No Shia,No Shia Believes In Distortion In Quran,That's What Sunni's People Believes,



i challenge you to prove that akhbaris too believe the same(as i have already proved from the sayings of akhbaris. And by making this statement you have made mockery of your ownself. Either people will assume that you were practising taqiyya or that you are a liar or that you are a jahil, they will not find any third option regarding this statement.

AND HOW WILL YOU SAVE KARIM MUSHTAQ FROM HIS PROVED LIE/TAQIYYA THAT COMPLETE ITHNA ASHARIYA NEGATE DISORTION OF QURAN, WHEN THE AKBARIS FROM SAME ITHNA ASHARIYA DARELY CONFESS THEIR BELIEF , AS I HAVE SHOWN?


Karim Mushtaq Explained Sunnis View In First Two Scans,
..
And Last Two Scan Pages Are What He/WE Believes


lol, he doesnt discusses only the sunni belief solely, but both sunni and shia belief partially , BUT WHAT WAS ATTRIBUTED TO HIM IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT YOU ARE JUST BLATANTLY LYING TO SAVE HIM , NOTHING ELSE.

IF YOU ARE A TRUE SHIA THEN DARE TO TRANSLATE THE FIRST 2 PAGES EXACTLY THEN IT WILL BE CLEAR AS THE SUN IN THE CLOUDLESS DAY THAT WHAT THAT ANTI SHIA WEBSITE SAID WAS 100% CORRECT. (i guess you think i cant read or translate urdu thats why you dared lying so easily, lol) anyways if you dare then translate it, jab hi doodh ka doodh aur pani ka pani hojaega.

#9 Syed Demanding

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 07:06 AM

Admitted???? I said: (even if we believe) it was an assumption buddy just for sake of argument.

anyways here a tasty dish for you enjoy it, it will add some more cheer to your party. :lol:

....
HeHeHe :lol:
..
So Here's A Sunni Practicing Taqiyah Or Lie???
..
In Your Madhab It's A Lie Na???
..
First He Says:-
...

قوله: (وقال ابن عباس)...الخ، واعلم أنَّ في التحريف ثلاثةُ مذاهبَ: ذهب جماعةٌ إلى أن التحريفَ في الكتب السماوية قد وقع بكُلِّ نحو في اللفظ والمعنى جميعًا، وهو الذي مال إليه ابنُ حَزْم؛ وذهب جماعةٌ إلى أن التحريف قليلٌ، ولعلَّ الحافِظَ ابنَ تيميةَ جنح إليه؛ وذهب جماعةٌ إلى إنكارِ التحريف اللفظي رأسًا، فالتحريفُ عندهم كلُّه معنوي. قلت: يَلْزَمُ على هذا المذهب أن يكونَ القرآنُ أيضًا مُحرَّفًا، فإِنَّ التحريفَ المعنويِّ غيرُ قليل فيه أيضًا، والذي تحقَق عندي أن التحريفَ فيه لفظيُّ أيضًا، أما إنه عن عمد منهم، لمغلطة. فالله تعالى أعلم به

....
Then He Says:-
..

قوله: (قال ابنُ عَبَّاسٍ:... {يُحَرّفُونَ} يُزِيلُونَ، ولَيْسَ أَحَدٌ يُزِيلُ لفْظَ كِتَابٍ مِنْ كُتُبِ اللَّهِ، ولكِنَّهُمْ يُحَرِّفُونَهُ، يَتَأَوَّلُونَهُ عَلَى غَيْرِ تَأْوِيلِهِ) واعلم أن أقوالَ العلماء في وقوع التحريف، ودلائلَهمن كلَّها قد قضى عنه الوَطَرَ المُحَشِّي، فراجعه. والذي ينبغي فيه النظرُ ههنا أنه كيف سَاغَ لابن عبَّاس إنكارُ التحريف اللفظيِّ، مع أن شاهد الوجود يُخَالِفُهُ. كيف وقد نعى عليهم القرآن أنَّهم كانوا يَكْتُبُونَ بأيديهم، ثم يقولون {هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ وَمَا هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ} (آل عمران: 78)، وهل هذا إلاَّ تحريفٌ لفظيٌّ، ولعلَّ مرادَه أنَّهم ما كانوا يُحَرِّفونها قصداً، ولكن سَلَفهم كانوا يَكْتُبُون مرادها كما فَهِمُوه. ثم كان خَلَفُهم يُدْخِلُنَه في نفس التوراة، فكان التفسيرُ يَخْتَلِطُ بالتوراة من هذا الطريق

...
If You Are A True Deobandi/Sunni,Translate The First Arabic Qoute And Show That Taqiyah(Lie According To You) Of Your Deobandi Scholar To EverOne.
...

IF YOU ARE A TRUE SHIA THEN DARE TO TRANSLATE THE FIRST 2 PAGES EXACTLY THEN IT WILL BE CLEAR AS THE SUN IN THE CLOUDLESS DAY THAT WHAT THAT ANTI SHIA WEBSITE SAID WAS 100% CORRECT. (i guess you think i cant read or translate urdu thats why you dared lying so easily, lol) anyways if you dare then translate it, jab hi doodh ka doodh aur pani ka pani hojaega.

...

Here's The Translation Of Those Pages:-
..
"No doubt the Quran that is with Imam Mehdi is complete. It has in it all Mansukh verses as well as the present verses in the same order they were revealed and all explanatory notes and explanations are present in it. It has the complete interpretation of the Prophet. It has in it all the issues of past, present and future. And in that complete book everything wet or dry is mentioned in it. And you people (Sunnis) don’t believe in that properly ordered Quran and only believe in this present Quran which according to you has lost a large part of it. That means that your (Sunni) belief is weak, whereas we (Shias) believe in that complete Quran which was never separated from the Ahlel Bayt. That is why in the Times of Justice (i.e. the End of Times) this Quran would appear and will defeat falsehood, and it will prove Allah’s Promise that this Quran has explanations of everything dry and wet in it and then not even any impure person can corrupt it. But only the pure can touch it. When Imam (Mehdi) will reveal this Quran to the world, falsehood will vanish from this world and Truth will rule. The Holy Quran we have now with us (i.e. the present Quran) contains verses of that same Quran (that is with Imam Mehdi) but its order of verses is not the same, and it also does not contain the explanations given by the Prophet. When we accept the present Quran as the Word of Allah, then how can you doubt our belief? The weakness of belief is present in your (Sunni) religion who only believe the present Quran to be enough, and don’t believe in that part which is invisible. However, they admit that a large part of the Quran went wasted but they don’t believe this lost part as the Word of Allah, but rather by denying it, they (the Sunnis) believe in a weak Quran."

Hope It Will Satisfy You :angel:

Before we progress further, both Shia and Sunni traditions (in Tabaqat for instance) tell us that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) compiled a manuscript of the Quran which had the verses in the order of revelation, and contained the abrogated verses, and contained his exegesis of the Quran. This copy is not the Quran in the hands of the Muslims, which is the complete book of Allah intended for the Ummah, but mushaf of Imam Ali is a reference book, which then passed down the Imams of Ahlul Bayt and is with Imam al-Mahdi according to the Shia belief, who will present it upon his reappearance as proof of his identity.

When Allamah Abdul Karim is referring to the excess information found in that manuscript, and is referring to "all the verses" etc. he is talking about Mushaf Ali. The Allamah did indeed believe the Quran we have today is complete and is the one intended for us and is protected, but right now he is referring to Mushaf Ali, which is clearly shown if one reads the entire book.

The fact the Allamah uses the word "naskh" (compilation) clearly shows he is not referring to the Quran which is between the two covers in the hands of the Muslims, but referring to a particular compilation - that of Imam Ali.

The Allamah puts forth some questions to the Sunni readers, as Omar Ibn Khattab believed extra verses such as the verse of stoning to be part of the Holy Quran, and believed Surat al-Ahzab to be longer than Surat al-Baqara etc.


In the words of a member of Answering-Ansar, may Allah bless them:

Right from the beginning till the end, Abdul Kareem Mushtaq Shaheed has actually explained the 'mushaf' (copy) of Imams [as], that has been passed on by every Imam [as] to the next one which currently is with the Imam e Zaman [as]. At the same time he has compared that copy of Quran with the Sunni belief on the copy of Quran which we all Muslims have, i.e. Sunnies believe that this is not the complete one as Ibn Umar testified that most of its part has been lost. So its the Sunnies who need to answer the comment of Abdul Kareem Mushtaq not us. As for his list of qualities about the copy which Imams of Ahlulbayt [as] have possessed, this is not something new, we all know from shia traditions (as well as some Sunni traditions) that the first Imam, Ali bin Abi Talib [as] had collected the Quran according to its revelation, i.e., in the order in which it had been sent down. This is the reason that Sunni Imam, Muhammad Ibn Sireen (33/653 - 110/729), the famous scholar and Tabi'i (disciples of the companions of the Holy Prophet), regretted that this transcript had not passed into the hands of the Muslims, and said: "If that transcript were in our hands, we would found a great knowledge in it.". Abdul kareem Mushtaq shaheed has referred to the very 'great knowledge' contained by the compilation of Imam [as] which Sunni Imam Ibn Sireen had pointed out.

Therefore in conclusion, we quote the words of Allah Almighty and Glorious, and wish our Sunni brothers avoid any underhand tactics that damage and attack reputations and honours unjustly

"Glory be to Thee (O Allah)! This is awful calumny." (24:16)
................................................................
http://rayatmohammed...believe-in.html
...

i challenge you to prove that akhbaris too believe the same(as i have already proved from the sayings of akhbaris. And by making this statement you have made mockery of your ownself. Either people will assume that you were practising taqiyya or that you are a liar or that you are a jahil, they will not find any third option regarding this statement.

AND HOW WILL YOU SAVE KARIM MUSHTAQ FROM HIS PROVED LIE/TAQIYYA THAT COMPLETE ITHNA ASHARIYA NEGATE DISORTION OF QURAN, WHEN THE AKBARIS FROM SAME ITHNA ASHARIYA DARELY CONFESS THEIR BELIEF , AS I HAVE SHOWN?

....
Firstly:-The Topic Is About To Discuss That Abdul Kareem Mushtaq Did Not Believe In Tehreef Ever,
..
Secondly:-Only the Akhbaris Believe In Tehreef,And They Are Less Than 1% Of Shi'as!! It Would Be Improper To Judge 99% On Yhe Crimes Of 1%. Or, Would It Be Sensible To Accuse Of Sunnis Of Anthropomorphism Simply Because Salafis Are Anthropomorphists? And Salafis Are More Than 1% Of Sunnis Actually.
...
Now Take A Chill Pill, ;)

And Talk On The Abdul Karim Mushtaq's Beleif In Quran.

Edited by syed_demanding, 14 September 2009 - 07:09 AM.


#10 firqa tu najiyyah

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 04:35 PM

....
HeHeHe :lol:
..
So Here's A Sunni Practicing Taqiyah Or Lie???
..
In Your Madhab It's A Lie Na???
..
First He Says:-
...
....
Then He Says:-
..
...
If You Are A True Deobandi/Sunni,Translate The First Arabic Qoute And Show That Taqiyah(Lie According To You) Of Your Deobandi Scholar To EverOne.
...


...

Here's The Translation Of Those Pages:-
..
"No doubt the Quran that is with Imam Mehdi is complete. It has in it all Mansukh verses as well as the present verses in the same order they were revealed and all explanatory notes and explanations are present in it. It has the complete interpretation of the Prophet. It has in it all the issues of past, present and future. And in that complete book everything wet or dry is mentioned in it. And you people (Sunnis) don’t believe in that properly ordered Quran and only believe in this present Quran which according to you has lost a large part of it. That means that your (Sunni) belief is weak, whereas we (Shias) believe in that complete Quran which was never separated from the Ahlel Bayt. That is why in the Times of Justice (i.e. the End of Times) this Quran would appear and will defeat falsehood, and it will prove Allah’s Promise that this Quran has explanations of everything dry and wet in it and then not even any impure person can corrupt it. But only the pure can touch it. When Imam (Mehdi) will reveal this Quran to the world, falsehood will vanish from this world and Truth will rule. The Holy Quran we have now with us (i.e. the present Quran) contains verses of that same Quran (that is with Imam Mehdi) but its order of verses is not the same, and it also does not contain the explanations given by the Prophet. When we accept the present Quran as the Word of Allah, then how can you doubt our belief? The weakness of belief is present in your (Sunni) religion who only believe the present Quran to be enough, and don’t believe in that part which is invisible. However, they admit that a large part of the Quran went wasted but they don’t believe this lost part as the Word of Allah, but rather by denying it, they (the Sunnis) believe in a weak Quran."

Hope It Will Satisfy You :angel:

Before we progress further, both Shia and Sunni traditions (in Tabaqat for instance) tell us that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) compiled a manuscript of the Quran which had the verses in the order of revelation, and contained the abrogated verses, and contained his exegesis of the Quran. This copy is not the Quran in the hands of the Muslims, which is the complete book of Allah intended for the Ummah, but mushaf of Imam Ali is a reference book, which then passed down the Imams of Ahlul Bayt and is with Imam al-Mahdi according to the Shia belief, who will present it upon his reappearance as proof of his identity.

When Allamah Abdul Karim is referring to the excess information found in that manuscript, and is referring to "all the verses" etc. he is talking about Mushaf Ali. The Allamah did indeed believe the Quran we have today is complete and is the one intended for us and is protected, but right now he is referring to Mushaf Ali, which is clearly shown if one reads the entire book.

The fact the Allamah uses the word "naskh" (compilation) clearly shows he is not referring to the Quran which is between the two covers in the hands of the Muslims, but referring to a particular compilation - that of Imam Ali.

The Allamah puts forth some questions to the Sunni readers, as Omar Ibn Khattab believed extra verses such as the verse of stoning to be part of the Holy Quran, and believed Surat al-Ahzab to be longer than Surat al-Baqara etc.


In the words of a member of Answering-Ansar, may Allah bless them:

Right from the beginning till the end, Abdul Kareem Mushtaq Shaheed has actually explained the 'mushaf' (copy) of Imams [as], that has been passed on by every Imam [as] to the next one which currently is with the Imam e Zaman [as]. At the same time he has compared that copy of Quran with the Sunni belief on the copy of Quran which we all Muslims have, i.e. Sunnies believe that this is not the complete one as Ibn Umar testified that most of its part has been lost. So its the Sunnies who need to answer the comment of Abdul Kareem Mushtaq not us. As for his list of qualities about the copy which Imams of Ahlulbayt [as] have possessed, this is not something new, we all know from shia traditions (as well as some Sunni traditions) that the first Imam, Ali bin Abi Talib [as] had collected the Quran according to its revelation, i.e., in the order in which it had been sent down. This is the reason that Sunni Imam, Muhammad Ibn Sireen (33/653 - 110/729), the famous scholar and Tabi'i (disciples of the companions of the Holy Prophet), regretted that this transcript had not passed into the hands of the Muslims, and said: "If that transcript were in our hands, we would found a great knowledge in it.". Abdul kareem Mushtaq shaheed has referred to the very 'great knowledge' contained by the compilation of Imam [as] which Sunni Imam Ibn Sireen had pointed out.

Therefore in conclusion, we quote the words of Allah Almighty and Glorious, and wish our Sunni brothers avoid any underhand tactics that damage and attack reputations and honours unjustly

"Glory be to Thee (O Allah)! This is awful calumny." (24:16)
................................................................
http://rayatmohammed...believe-in.html
...

....
Firstly:-The Topic Is About To Discuss That Abdul Kareem Mushtaq Did Not Believe In Tehreef Ever,
..
Secondly:-Only the Akhbaris Believe In Tehreef,And They Are Less Than 1% Of Shi'as!! It Would Be Improper To Judge 99% On Yhe Crimes Of 1%. Or, Would It Be Sensible To Accuse Of Sunnis Of Anthropomorphism Simply Because Salafis Are Anthropomorphists? And Salafis Are More Than 1% Of Sunnis Actually.
...
Now Take A Chill Pill, ;)

And Talk On The Abdul Karim Mushtaq's Beleif In Quran.


thanks for exposing your ownself , and its really nice of you that you removed the clown from your own face.

firstly from the too many points i could have raised, im sparing you since even a few are enough to show the reality.

first lets see the translation, then we will conclude from it:

No doubt the Quran that is with Imam Mehdi is complete. It has in it all Mansukh verses as well as the present verses in the same order they were revealed and all explanatory notes and explanations are present in it. It has the complete interpretation of the Prophet. It has in it all the issues of past, present and future. And in that complete book everything wet or dry is mentioned in it. And you people (Sunnis) don’t believe in that properly ordered Quran and only believe in this present Quran which according to you has lost a large part of it. That means that your (Sunni) belief is weak, whereas we (Shias) believe in that complete Quran which was never separated from the Ahlel Bayt.

That is why in the Times of Justice (i.e. the End of Times) this Quran would appear and will defeat falsehood, and it will prove Allah’s Promise that this Quran has explanations of everything dry and wet in it and then not even any impure person can corrupt it. But only the pure can touch it. When Imam (Mehdi) will reveal this Quran to the world, falsehood will vanish from this world and Truth will rule.

The Holy Quran we have now with us (i.e. the present Quran) contains verses of that same Quran (that is with Imam Mehdi) but its order of verses is not the same, and it also does not contain the explanations given by the Prophet. When we accept the present Quran as the Word of Allah, then how can you doubt our belief? The weakness of belief is present in your (Sunni) religion who only believe the present Quran to be enough, and don’t believe in that part which is invisible. However, they admit that a large part of the Quran went wasted but they don’t believe this lost part as the Word of Allah, but rather by denying it, they (the Sunnis) believe in a weak Quran.

Our belief is on both the visible (verses) and invisible (verses). So we (Shias) are complete in beliefs, whereas you (Sunnis) believe in the visible (verses), and deny the invisible (verses). That is why you (Sunnis) are incomplete in faith when you proclaim that you believe in the total Quran which is the present Quran.

Even the claim of Quran is that it has everything dry or wet mentioned in it, whereas in the total Quran in which you (Sunnis) believe in (i.e the present Quran), you cannot find the mention of the existence of Pakistan in it, but the total Quran in which we believe in, it has everything of the past and the future mentioned in it. And that complete Quran is present under the protection of a guardian in this world (i.e. Imam Mehdi) which impure people cannot corrupt.

The situation of your Quran’s protection is such that every pure or impure person in whatever condition can touch it. There exists the possibility of mistakes and errors in its manuscript. You cannot even show the name of the republic of Pakistan in it, whereas our claim is that the manuscript of the Holy Quran is safe under the guardianship of our Imam (Mehdi). It has all those things which have happened (in the past) or will happen (in the future). Hence, our belief is complete and your belief is faulty because you believe in the partial Word of Allah and deny the rest of it, whereas we are the believers of both the partial and total Word of Allah.

(“Hazaar Tumhari Dus Hamari”, by Allamah Abdul Kareem Mushtaq, p.553-554)


firstly you wantedly, didnt posted the reaming partt of the second page because it would have exposed you then and there.

now from the red portion of the translation we conclude that:
1. you and karim mushtaq are from those shias who believe that the verses of quran are not in the correct order in which it should have been.

just a review:Twelve Imami Shias today have three views regarding the existing Quran; (1) a minor proportion of them believe that it is in original sequence and the script is promised to be protected and preserved by Allahswt; (2) a large number of them, accept it as an unaltered manuscript, but its revelation sequence has been changed and is not in order as descended onto Prophetsaww; (3) another fraction believe that it has been doctored by the companions of Prophetsaww during the time of first three Muslim Caliphs and it is neither according to its revelation sequence nor without alterations.

from this its aparent that you are not from the first group but the second one that has already cleared a lot.

seconldy, according to karim mushtaq the quran with imam mehdi It is a much better book than our present day Quran! since it has all thats to be happend and will happen. including existence of pakistan.

thirdly karim mushtaq said: There exists the possibility of mistakes and errors in its manuscript

what will you say for this.


lastly i guess you did a survey in your dreams from where you concluded akhbaris are only 1% , any proof for this?

MOREOVER EVEN IF ITS PROVED(AFTER YOU PROVE IT) THAT THEY ARE ONLY 1% EVEN THEN IT WILL NOT COVER THE LIE OF KARIM MUSHTAQ THAT, "COMPLETE ITHNA ASHARIYA" BELIEVE THAT QURAN IS FREE FROM TEHREEF. BECAUSE EVEN IF 1% DOESNT AGREES THEN YOU CANNOT SAY COMPLETE, 99% IS NOT COMPLETE, ITS MAJORITY, BUT NOT COMPLETE.

Edited by firqa tu najiyyah, 14 September 2009 - 04:43 PM.


#11 Syed Demanding

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 11:52 PM

Man Go And Have Some Knowledge About Nasikh & Mansookh :angel:
...
You Seems To Be In A Miserable Condition:cry:
...
I Will just Answer You In The Words of Kareem Mushtaq

And you people (Sunnis) don’t believe in that properly ordered Quran and only believe in this present Quran which according to you has lost a large part of it.

..
No doubt the Quran that is with Imam Mehdi is complete. It has in it all Mansukh verses as well as the present verses in the same order they were revealed and all explanatory notes and explanations are present in it. It has the complete interpretation of the Prophet. It has in it all the issues of past, present and future. And in that complete book everything wet or dry is mentioned in it.
...

The Holy Quran we have now with us (i.e. the present Quran) contains verses of that same Quran (that is with Imam Mehdi) but its order of verses is not the same,

...
No doubt the Quran that is with Imam Mehdi is complete. It has in it all Mansukh verses as well as the present verses in the same order they were revealed and all explanatory notes and explanations are present in it.
...

whereas in the total Quran in which you (Sunnis) believe in (i.e the present Quran), you cannot find the mention of the existence of Pakistan in it, but the total Quran in which we believe in, it has everything of the past and the future mentioned in it

...
That is why in the Times of Justice (i.e. the End of Times) this Quran would appear and will defeat falsehood, and it will prove Allah’s Promise that this Quran has explanations of everything

Even the claim of Quran is that it has everything dry or wet mentioned in it,
...

There exists the possibility of mistakes and errors in its manuscript.

..
The situation of your Quran’s protection is such that every pure or impure person in whatever condition can touch it.
..
Omar Ibn Khattab believed extra verses such as the verse of stoning to be part of the Holy Quran, and believed Surat al-Ahzab to be longer than Surat al-Baqara etc.
...

just a review:Twelve Imami Shias today have three views regarding the existing Quran; (1) a minor proportion of them believe that it is in original sequence and the script is promised to be protected and preserved by Allahswt; (2) a large number of them, accept it as an unaltered manuscript, but its revelation sequence has been changed and is not in order as descended onto Prophetsaww; (3) another fraction believe that it has been doctored by the companions of Prophetsaww during the time of first three Muslim Caliphs and it is neither according to its revelation sequence nor without alterations.

....
Your Review Is Nullified By Kareem Mushtaq Himself :wub:
...

BECAUSE EVEN IF 1% DOESNT AGREES THEN YOU CANNOT SAY COMPLETE, 99% IS NOT COMPLETE

...
Same Goes To Deobandis Then :lol:
....

#12 ahlussunnah

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:38 AM

http://ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showpost.php?p=4850&postcount=5

Syed Anwar Shah Kashmiri said: "It is my analysis based on Sahih al Bukhari that the Qur'an has tahreef with regards to words and this was an accredited to Hadhrath Uthman's party as an unintentional or intentional mistake." (Fayz ul Bari page 395 Volume 3 under the Chapter 'As Shah'adhat')


Authubillah (I seek refuge to Allah) from these dajjal liars (may Allah curse them), the part in blue is no where in the statement of M. Anwar shah Kashmiri's (rahimahu Allah) !
May Allah be pleased with Khalifah ar Rashid Uthman radiyallahu anhu.

and the red part is a major distortion of his words, and a slander against him rahimahu Allah.

Here is sh. Anwar Shah's statement in Arabic:
قوله: (وقال ابن عباس)...الخ، واعلم أنَّ في التحريف ثلاثةُ مذاهبَ: ذهب جماعةٌ إلى أن التحريفَ في الكتب السماوية قد وقع بكُلِّ نحو في اللفظ والمعنى جميعًا، وهو الذي مال إليه ابنُ حَزْم؛ وذهب جماعةٌ إلى أن التحريف قليلٌ، ولعلَّ الحافِظَ ابنَ تيميةَ جنح إليه؛ وذهب جماعةٌ إلى إنكارِ التحريف اللفظي رأسًا، فالتحريفُ عندهم كلُّه معنوي. قلت: يَلْزَمُ على هذا المذهب أن يكونَ القرآنُ أيضًا مُحرَّفًا، فإِنَّ التحريفَ المعنويِّ غيرُ قليل فيه أيضًا، والذي تحقَق عندي أن التحريفَ فيه لفظيُّ أيضًا، أما إنه عن عمد منهم، لمغلطة. فالله تعالى أعلم به.

Sh. M. Anwar Shah Kashmiri -rahimahu Allah- was speaking about the different opinions regarding the "tahreef" that Ibn Abbas radiyallahu anhu was speaking about in the ayat that spoke about the tahrif of ahl al kitab, he mentioned 3 madhhabs regarding this:
1_ That the tahrif occured in the books in wording and meaning
2_ some had the opinion that the tahrif was little
3_ some denied the wording tahrif completely, so the tahrif according to them was all by meaning.
Then Anwar shah said: "by this madhhab (#3) it would make the Quran also muharraf, because the tahrif in meaning in it is not little (meaning in interpretation, people making tahrif in interpretation of Quran, like many deviant sects do when doing tafsir of Quran), and I concluded that the tahrif is also in wording. As for it being on purpose, limaghlata (?), then Allah knows best about it."

He was basically speaking about the tahrif of the past books, not the Quran.
And what proves that also is his statement in another part of the same book, here is the Arabic text for it:

قوله: (قال ابنُ عَبَّاسٍ:... {يُحَرّفُونَ} يُزِيلُونَ، ولَيْسَ أَحَدٌ يُزِيلُ لفْظَ كِتَابٍ مِنْ كُتُبِ اللَّهِ، ولكِنَّهُمْ يُحَرِّفُونَهُ، يَتَأَوَّلُونَهُ عَلَى غَيْرِ تَأْوِيلِهِ) واعلم أن أقوالَ العلماء في وقوع التحريف، ودلائلَهمن كلَّها قد قضى عنه الوَطَرَ المُحَشِّي، فراجعه. والذي ينبغي فيه النظرُ ههنا أنه كيف سَاغَ لابن عبَّاس إنكارُ التحريف اللفظيِّ، مع أن شاهد الوجود يُخَالِفُهُ. كيف وقد نعى عليهم القرآن أنَّهم كانوا يَكْتُبُونَ بأيديهم، ثم يقولون {هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ وَمَا هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ} (آل عمران: 78)، وهل هذا إلاَّ تحريفٌ لفظيٌّ، ولعلَّ مرادَه أنَّهم ما كانوا يُحَرِّفونها قصداً، ولكن سَلَفهم كانوا يَكْتُبُون مرادها كما فَهِمُوه. ثم كان خَلَفُهم يُدْخِلُنَه في نفس التوراة، فكان التفسيرُ يَخْتَلِطُ بالتوراة من هذا الطريق

If someone can translate it plz.



Also see http://www.fnoor.com/fn0754.htm

Edited by ahlussunnah, 15 September 2009 - 12:40 AM.


#13 Syed Demanding

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 02:01 AM

^^
..
Open Your Eyes And Read My Previous Posts,It Was Answered.

Edited by syed_demanding, 15 September 2009 - 02:03 AM.


#14 firqa tu najiyyah

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 05:33 AM

Man Go And Have Some Knowledge About Nasikh & Mansookh :angel:
...
You Seems To Be In A Miserable Condition:cry:
...
I Will just Answer You In The Words of Kareem Mushtaq


..
No doubt the Quran that is with Imam Mehdi is complete. It has in it all Mansukh verses as well as the present verses in the same order they were revealed and all explanatory notes and explanations are present in it. It has the complete interpretation of the Prophet. It has in it all the issues of past, present and future. And in that complete book everything wet or dry is mentioned in it.
...
...
No doubt the Quran that is with Imam Mehdi is complete. It has in it all Mansukh verses as well as the present verses in the same order they were revealed and all explanatory notes and explanations are present in it.
...

...
That is why in the Times of Justice (i.e. the End of Times) this Quran would appear and will defeat falsehood, and it will prove Allah’s Promise that this Quran has explanations of everything

Even the claim of Quran is that it has everything dry or wet mentioned in it,
...
..
The situation of your Quran’s protection is such that every pure or impure person in whatever condition can touch it.
..
Omar Ibn Khattab believed extra verses such as the verse of stoning to be part of the Holy Quran, and believed Surat al-Ahzab to be longer than Surat al-Baqara etc.
...

....
Your Review Is Nullified By Kareem Mushtaq Himself :wub:
...

...
Same Goes To Deobandis Then :lol:
....


from this response it is proved that this guy has lost it completely. And he had nothing to answer :lol: :lol: :lol:

nasikh and mansookh is not the issue sweetie, to whom you are not trying to deceive. BUT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE ORIGINAL QURAN SHOULD HAVE CONTAINED THE MASOOKH VERSES TOO?

YOU BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE NOT IN THE CORRECT ORDER. (FOR EXAMPLE THE VERSES OF TATHEER SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE WHERE IT IS)

YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE IS POSSIBILTY OF ERRORS AND MISTAKES IN THE QURAN.

YOU BELIEVE THAT THE QURAN WITH YOUR IMAM IS BETTER THAN OURS.

NOW WHAT ELSE IS NEEDED TO EXPOSE YOU, HAHAHA MISSION COMPLETED. SAYONARA TO THIS THREAD, PEOPLE WITH BRAIN HAVE UNDERSTOOD YOUR REALITY


#15 Syed Demanding

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 08:02 AM

from this response it is proved that this guy has lost it completely. And he had nothing to answer :lol: :lol: :lol:


....
:!!!: :!!!: :!!!:
....
This Guy Needs Basis Of Discussion (Declaring Himself Winner :wacko: )
....
Even I Did'nt Bother To Add A Single Word From My Side :angel:
..
Because Karim Mushtaq Himself Answered Your Arguments.
....

nasikh and mansookh is not the issue sweetie, to whom you are not trying to deceive. BUT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE ORIGINAL QURAN SHOULD HAVE CONTAINED THE MASOOKH VERSES TOO?

....
Again Im Not Going To Tamper My Finger Tips
...
As Karim Mushtaq Said:-
...
Quran that is with Imam Mehdi is complete. It has in it all Mansukh verses as well as the present verses
...
He Is Talking About Quran With Imam Mehdi as,Which Contains Mansookh Verses Too,
....
Then He Says:-

And you people (Sunnis) don’t believe in that properly ordered Quran and only believe in this present Quran which according to you has lost a large part of it. That means that your (Sunni) belief is weak, whereas we (Shias) believe in that complete Quran which was never separated from the Ahlel Bayt.
....

YOU BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE NOT IN THE CORRECT ORDER. (FOR EXAMPLE THE VERSES OF TATHEER SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE WHERE IT IS)

....
Again Karim Mushtaq Says:-
..
The Holy Quran we have now with us (i.e. the present Quran) contains verses of that same Quran (that is with Imam Mehdi) but its order of verses is not the same, and it also does not contain the explanations given by the Prophet.
..
Because
..
Our belief is on both the visible (verses) and invisible (verses). So we (Shias) are complete in beliefs, whereas you (Sunnis) believe in the visible (verses), and deny the invisible (verses). That is why you (Sunnis) are incomplete in faith when you proclaim that you believe in the total Quran which is the present Quran.
...

YOU BELIEVE THAT THE QURAN WITH YOUR IMAM IS BETTER THAN OURS.

...
Karim Mushtaq Says:-
...
the Quran that is with Imam Mehdi is complete. It has in it all Mansukh verses as well as the present verses in the same order they were revealed and all explanatory notes and explanations are present in it. It has the complete interpretation of the Prophet. It has in it all the issues of past, present and future. And in that complete book everything wet or dry is mentioned in it.
....

NOW WHAT ELSE IS NEEDED TO EXPOSE YOU, HAHAHA MISSION COMPLETED. SAYONARA TO THIS THREAD, PEOPLE WITH BRAIN HAVE UNDERSTOOD YOUR REALITY

....
You Don't Have Anything Else?????

Wanna Save YourSelf :wub:
....
Ba Bye,Let The Readers Decide Then :angel:

Edited by syed_demanding, 15 September 2009 - 08:07 AM.


#16 firqa tu najiyyah

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 08:41 AM

was this your answer? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

there was only one answer of yours, karim mushtaq answer this. hahahahaha.

ANYWAYS YOU DIDN'T TOUCH THIS ONE THOUGH, NEITHER YOU ANSWERED IT SENSIBLY THAT WHAT IS MEANS.

YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE IS POSSIBILTY OF ERRORS AND MISTAKES IN THE QURAN.



#17 Syed Demanding

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 01:05 PM

was this your answer? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
there was only one answer of yours, karim mushtaq answer this. hahahahaha.

...
Abdul Kareem Mushtaq rahim ullah,May Allah Bless You,Your Words Are Enough To Stop The Crying Of Nawasibs. :yaali:
...

ANYWAYS YOU DIDN'T TOUCH THIS ONE THOUGH, NEITHER YOU ANSWERED IT SENSIBLY THAT WHAT IS MEANS.

YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE IS POSSIBILTY OF ERRORS AND MISTAKES IN THE QURAN.

...
Again In Words Of Maulana:- :)

They (Sunni) believe in this present Quran which according to Them has lost a large part of it. That means that your (Sunni) belief is weak, whereas we (Shias) believe in that complete Quran which was never separated from the Ahlel Bayt.
...
So According To Your Belief (lost a large part of it),Means There Is Possibilty Of Errors And Mistakes In It.
...
But Quran In Which We Believe (Contains Mansookh Ayahs With The Interpretation By Prophet SAWW,With The Sequence Including Mansookh Ayahs) Is Free From Errors And Mistakes.

Edited by syed_demanding, 15 September 2009 - 01:08 PM.


#18 Righteous

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 01:15 PM

from this response it is proved that this guy has lost it completely. And he had nothing to answer :lol: :lol: :lol:

nasikh and mansookh is not the issue sweetie, to whom you are not trying to deceive. BUT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE ORIGINAL QURAN SHOULD HAVE CONTAINED THE MASOOKH VERSES TOO?

YOU BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE NOT IN THE CORRECT ORDER. (FOR EXAMPLE THE VERSES OF TATHEER SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE WHERE IT IS)

YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE IS POSSIBILTY OF ERRORS AND MISTAKES IN THE QURAN.

YOU BELIEVE THAT THE QURAN WITH YOUR IMAM IS BETTER THAN OURS.

NOW WHAT ELSE IS NEEDED TO EXPOSE YOU, HAHAHA MISSION COMPLETED. SAYONARA TO THIS THREAD, PEOPLE WITH BRAIN HAVE UNDERSTOOD YOUR REALITY


You can read Quran with Tafseer from Ibn Khateer, but a Quran with Tafseer dictated by Prophet (SAW) is something that makes us kaafir?

#19 Syed Demanding

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 01:49 PM

One More Thing As Sunnis Believes There Are Some Errors/Mistakes In The Surah/Words Of Surah Which Was Such As Such,That I Heard From Sahabi etc,
..
Actually He Was Referring To Those Riwayat In Your Sahih Books,
..
But Quran In Which We Believe Is Free From Errors/Mistakes.
..
As A Counter Argument Im Not Going To Qoute Those Sahih Riwayaat,But It Is Enough For Your Last Post. :yaali:

Edited by syed_demanding, 15 September 2009 - 01:52 PM.


#20 firqa tu najiyyah

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 02:03 PM

You can read Quran with Tafseer from Ibn Khateer, but a Quran with Tafseer dictated by Prophet (SAW) is something that makes us kaafir?


did i anywhere raised this point regarding that the quran with your imam contains its explanation? i dont think so. But you conveniently brought this point forth , but this is not what the argument was, the argument is that . Acc to karim mushtaq.

1.the quran present with muslims now(shias and sunnis) it has the possibilty of mistakes and errors.

2. the verses which the quran we have(sunnis and shias) the order of the verses are not correct.

3. the quran which shia imam has it contains all that was to be happened and that has happened.

so the ibn katheer example is really silly.

One More Thing As Sunnis Believes There Are Some Errors/Mistakes In The Surah/Words Of Surah Which Was Such As Such,That I Heard From Sahabi etc,
..
Actually He Was Referring To Those Riwayat In Your Sahih Books,
..
But Quran In Which We Believe Is Free From Errors/Mistakes.
..
As A Counter Argument Im Not Going To Qoute Those Sahih Riwayaat,But It Is Enough For Your Last Post. :yaali:


i have exposed you perfectly , now all your self made assumptions OR IN OTHER WORDS QIYAS(WHICH IS HARAM IN SHIISM) WILL NOT DEFEND YOUR BELOVED MUSHTAQ.


#21 Syed Demanding

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 02:40 AM

i have exposed you perfectly , now all your self made assumptions OR IN OTHER WORDS QIYAS(WHICH IS HARAM IN SHIISM) WILL NOT DEFEND YOUR BELOVED MUSHTAQ.

...
Ooh Man,Readers I Need Your Attention Now,
..
First This Guy Said:-
...

was this your answer? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

there was only one answer of yours, karim mushtaq answer this. hahahahaha.

...
Now He Is Saying:-
...

now all your self made assumptions OR IN OTHER WORDS QIYAS(WHICH IS HARAM IN SHIISM) WILL NOT DEFEND YOUR BELOVED MUSHTAQ.

...
So The Belief Of Kareem Mushtaq Is Clear Now (May Allah Bless Him), :yaali:

#22 ahlussunnah

ahlussunnah

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 03:14 AM

^^
..
Open Your Eyes And Read My Previous Posts,It Was Answered.

I don't see where it was answered?? Click on the link and qoute your answer here.

A serious question, do you understand Arabic?




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