imam ali(as)'s 3 sons-abu bakr,umar,uthman T/F?
Posted 10 July 2009 - 12:13 PM
to all brothers and sisters
Recently i came across the following ahle sunnah website
I went through very briefly and find most of their claims very much fake concerning fadak and the difference of opinion between abu bakr and bibi fatimah(as).They claim that it was bibi fatimah zahra(as)'s mistake (nauzubillah).Through claiming that she was wrong they don't even realise that they are proving Allah(swt) (nauzubillah) who revealed the all verses about her characteristics and purity and sinless bieng.
But something which is pondering my mind is that they even claim that imam ali(as) had three sons whom he named abu bakr,umar,uthman after the first 3 caliphs.Adding to this i saw a video of ziyarah in najaf and i remember that i even saw in it marqade abu bakr ibne ali ibne abi talib.I don't know much of history but i want to know the views of you brothers and sisters as my simple mind is not that much able to understand this that if imam ali(as) named his three sons after the first 3 caliphs did he really had dignity,respect and admiration for the first 3 caliphs or its a false claim that he named his first 3 sons after them.
Posted 10 July 2009 - 12:52 PM
Yes it's true because i read about this in a book named,''HUSSAIN SHANAASI".In this book author mentions that Hazrat Ali named his three son's umar,abu-bakr and usman.They were the son's of Hazrat Umm-ul-Baneen(mother of Hazrat Abbas(as)) and three of them were martyred in the battle of Karbala.Assuming that what should be the consequences,why he did so?That"s a pretty much complicated question but one thing is for sure that he had no repect for sheikhain.
Edited by saba fatima naqvi, 10 July 2009 - 12:53 PM.
Posted 10 July 2009 - 01:12 PM
Posted 10 July 2009 - 01:15 PM
progeny from Fatima binte Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam
Two sons: al-Hasan and al-Husain
Two daughters: Zainab and Umm Kulthum
From Khawla binte Ja'far bin Qays al-Hanafta
One son: Muhammad
From Umm al-Banin binte Hizam bin Khalid bin Darim
Four sons: al-Abbas, Ja'far, Uthman, Abd Allah
From Umm Habib binte Rabia
One set of twins: Umar and girl Ruqayya
He had many other children from other wives
Posted 10 July 2009 - 02:00 PM
He is the best shia lecturer i have ever came across,and he knows all the strategies and tactics how to defend ahlulbayt and attack the false claims made by other schools in islams.
Posted 10 July 2009 - 03:32 PM
Why does it matter what he names his kids?
There were many Shia at the time of the Imams who had "Sunni names"
Read the chains of our hadiths; you'll see many Shia named "Umar" or "Uthman" or even "Muawyia" or "Yazid"
They were popular names back then.
Imagine if a really evil person named "Hassan" lived now. Most people would still name their kids "Hassan" because it has a good connotation which isn't smeared by one evil guy named "Hassan"
I personally don't know if it is true if Imam Ali named his kids those three names (though it would be strange if he named his kid "Abu Bakr", because it's a kunya or a nickname, not a real name); it's odd that Sheikh al-Mufid , in "kitab al-irshad" has the names of the kids of the Imams, except Ali's .
Again, I don't know if it's true, but it wouldn't be a big deal then, because they were common names.
For instance "Yazid bin Abdullah" was a Shia who died during the occultation of Imam Mahdi and left property to the Imam (ajts).
"Uthman bin Isa al-Amiri" was a follower of Imam Musa al-Kadhim (and a leader of the Waqifites) and is said to have joined Imam Ridha
Imam Hassan even named one of his kids "Umar". "Umar bin Hassan bin Ali bin Abi Talib" was killed with Imam Hussein at Karbala. Umar bin Hassan's kunya seems to have been "Abu Bakr!"
Imam Zain al-Abadeen even named one of his children "Umar". "Umar bin Ali bin Hussein" was in charge of the endowments of the Prophet and Ali . And he related hadiths and was close to Imams Baqir and as-Sadiq(as)
As for "Abu Bakr", "Abu Bakr al Fahfaki" was a close adherent to Imam al-Hadi
Also, "Muawyia bin Ammar al-Duhni " was a leading Shia of Imams Sadiq and al-Kadhim
Again, I don't know if Imam Ali really named his kids those names, but you can open up any book of rijal and find many Shia being named those names. I got these names (along with their description) from Sheikh al-Mufid's "Kitab al-Irshad"
Edited by lotfilms, 10 July 2009 - 03:35 PM.
Posted 11 July 2009 - 05:30 AM
but naming three sons all together as abu bakr,umar,uthman particularly after the names of the first three caliphs is something not common or something which cannot be said that its just a name and been given........
Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:27 PM
He might want to show that there is nothing wron in the name, but rather with people's mentality who look down upon innocent people named so (as mentioned above) who suffer due to another person with the same name.
Posted 15 July 2009 - 02:14 PM
Dear brothers and Sisters in islam
From my own experience, I can suggest that Imam Ali Made it Particularly for sincere believers of the ends of times because he knew very well that by the ends of times the large number of Muslims Would follow the Path of these usurpers caliphs . let me explain my own personnal and private experience for you please. I am born Sunni from Sunni parents since 1 or 2 centuries; The version of Islam we received from arabs is the Sunni school in our Central African area, thus, my father is named Umar, his big Brother my onvle is Named Abu bakar, and his little Brother my oncle is named Usman, my Ant is also named after Ayesha ! ( fortunately my mother is named ... Fatima Zahra and myself... Isma'il my big brother brother jibra'il...)
Now suppose that the Names "Abu bakr", "Umar" "Usman"... not the specific personnalities or individuals holding these names being confusingly considered as infamous and even "cursed ones" due to their outrageous misdeeds ( shaytan (l.a) himself has not done so much than these 3 caliphs individuals in terms of evil deeds).
My point is that as you know we are some innocent victioms of history falsifications and mystifications as well as the false propagandas of Bakrit sects , mainly the salafi-wahhabi nasibis. Should I confuse my father's and uncles, ants names with those of Abu bakr Abdullah ibn Abu quhafa, umar ibn al Khattab or Usman ibn Affan ??? no I think Imam Ali has thought about people like me and my parents, because the weak mind of brainwashed african people could easily confuse these things and thus make some useless and valueless troubles. of course my grand father named his sons after the caliphs, but it was due to his complete ignorance of what these 3 individuals has done to our holy prophet and his Ahl ul bayt .
Last but not least, for you guys overthere in Iran, irak, arabic countries , Europe and Asia it would seem meaningless but believe me, if Imam Ali had not named his sons with these names , we will feel as if we were holding the names of " SHAYTAN" , "IBLISS" , "PHAROAH", "NEMROD" ...
The Prince of the believers, IMAM ALI was far sighted , thus confirming in my view his knowledged of the unseen. May Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì hasten the reappearance of the Sahib az zamaan , Imam al Mahdi (atf) !.
Posted 11 January 2010 - 04:13 PM
Imam Ali did give names such as Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman. What we need to understand is this, these names were common and popular arabic names and it is in no way related to Imam Ali using these names because of the 1st 3 caliphs. Likewise, if you look at some of Imam Ali's companions in the Wars of Siffin and Jamal, he had loyal companions called Yazid in his army who were martyred for the sake of Allah. Now these companions were not named after Yazid ibn Muawiyah. There was even a companion called Yazid in the army of Imam Hussain.
In conclusion, the names bore no relevance to the people who had disputes with the Ahlul Bayt. They were just common arab names. And Allah knows best
Posted 13 January 2010 - 04:19 AM
In conclusion, the names bore no relevance to the people who had disputes with the Ahlul Bayt. They were just common arab names. And Allah knows best
This thing always nevr made sense to me
If I am man named Jon and my dad left a big wasya for my name but Eric (Fake Friend of my dad that betray against him when hes sick for politics) comes to take it than he kill my wife and child (or has some thugster do it) and everything he does is so to make fun against my dad than I dont think I will name my son as Eric. Even if it is common name. It just woudnt make sense. I mean like today, nobody whos Shia can say "my son Yazed" so we obviously feel this way so how much more AMEER AL MOMINEEN AS will feel if this done against PROPHET AS?????
So these traditions about names for children has to be fake and the ones in rijal books means they are from the convert family or also fake...
Posted 27 January 2010 - 01:25 PM
Hazrat Ali as most would agree did have three sons named Abu Bakar, Umar & Uthman. I know this may seem a little confusing especially after the hatred which the Shia's have for the first 3 Caliphs of Islam.
I wont be going into detail of the accusations, fabricated hadiths and other lies which are ascribed to the above mentioned figures in Islam, but to simply solve the confusion/question with logic.
To look at this from a neutral perspective i will take into account that the above 3 names were very common names, and many people during the lifetime of the Prophet had these names and those after him were also given these names..
To evaluate the reason for choosing the three names, we can very easily use probability to see what the chances are of selecting 3 names in that particular order from the total number of names possible. There are in total approximately 1,520 muslim names which can be used to names ones child, however to favour this explanation i will only be using half this number (760), so my reasons are not biased.
A simple calculation of percentages will show the chances of selecting 3 names in a specific order..this can be seen from the following calculation:
(1/760) x (1/759) x (1/758) = 2.414 x 10^-9 if that number means nothing to you then this equates to roughly 1 in 437,244,720 (1 in 437 Million)
760= Total number of names
759 = Total number of names -1
758 = Total number of names -2
If that doesn't convince you that this was not just a random selection.. then seen the below..
The Challenge to all Shia
Let us be even more reasonable and ignore the above explanation and further agree with the Shia.
Ok the names were selected by Hazrat Ali , we will agree with you and we will ignore the above 1 in 437 million chance explanation. Then why is it that no Shia is willing to follow in the footsteps of Hazrat Ali in naming their sons Abu Bakar, Umar or Uthman, and I challenge ANY Shia to name their children with one of these names, or even the name Aisha for that matter if is a daughter.
After all your only following in the footsteps of your Imam?
Brothers and sisters, the answers are very simple if only our minds were fit to receive. See the below quotation relating to the Companions of our Prophet and what Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì has promised them..
9:100 And as for the first and foremost of those who have forsaken the domain of evil and of those who have sheltered and succoured the Faith,  as well as those who follow them in [the way of] righteousness - God is well-pleased with them, and well--pleased are they with Him. And for them has He readied gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide beyond the count of time: this is the triumph supreme!
Wasalaam wa rahmatullah
Posted 12 February 2010 - 01:52 PM
Regarding the naming of children all conditions will fit in one of the following categories:
1- You love some one and you name your child after that person.
2- You love some one and your child has the same name as that person but you naming your child the same as that persons name has nothing got to do with the fact that you loved that person.
3- You love some one but you don't name your child after that person.
4- You don't love some one and you don't name your child after that person.
5- You don't love some one but your child has the same name as that person.
If someone comes out of the blue and says: "Hey, Imam Ali named his children so and so because he loved so and so, Its up to him to prove that claim because Imam Ali could have also named his children so and so because of condition No. 5. You see the point? So instead of you having all kinds of bad thoughts and wasting your time to dis-prove what he said you just mention what I said and firmly tell him TO PROVE WHAT HE CLAIMS! I confidently doubt he can prove such a thing. You can prove the opposite. I will show below.
You can also use this counter attack: Tell your Sunni friends If people name their children after the people they love and dont name their children after the people they dont love (If he objects here then he has disproved his first claim) then we can conclude that Omar, Uthman and abubakr didn't love the Prophets ahlulbayt i.e. Fatimah, Imama Ali, Imam Hassan and Imam Hossein because none of them had any children by these names!
Anyway, the names Umar, Othman, abubakr, Yazid... were common names at those times and have nothing to do with loving them. Many of the Imams companions had these names but didn't love these people and neither had their parents. Check out some Rijal books to see what I mean.
I also found a great answer here: http://www.valiasr-a...question&id=437 (Sorry its in persian).
I will translate the key points. It was very interesting for me and I know it will be for you too:
It is a known fact that Abubakr is an epithet and this persons real real name was one of the following (the narrations differ): Abdul ka'ba, Atiq, Abdullah... It is also a known fact that Abubakr was not the name of Imam Ali's son but also his Epithet. And the epithet is not something that a father chooses for his son. This is usually chosen by the person himself!
Umar had this very stupid habit of changing other peoples names (another reason to hate him). It has been narrated that Umar himself and not Ali put this name on Imam Ali's son. It has been narrated that:
æßÇä ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ Óãøì ÚãÑ Èä Úáíø ÈÅÓãå.
"Umar ibn Khitab named Alis son like his own name, Umar" , Al-Biladhiri, Ansab ul-Ashraf, vol. 1, p. 297.
It has also been narrated:
æãæáÏå Ýí ÃíÇã ÚãÑ. ÝÚãÑ ÓãÇå ÈÇÓãå. ÇáÐåÈí¡ ÔãÓ ÇáÏíä ãÍãÏ Èä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚËãÇä¡ (ãÊæÝÇí748åÜ)¡ ÓíÑ ÃÚáÇã ÇáäÈáÇÁ¡ Ì 4¡ Õ 134¡
"He (Imam Ali's son) was born in the time of Umar and so Umar named him the same as himself", Al-dhahabi, Seir a'lab al-nabala, vol.4, p.134
From this we can easily conclude that Imam Ali didn't call his son Umar, but Umar did this by force or whatever!
There are at least three narrations that show Umar changed other peoples names:
1-There was a person called Abdulrahman ibn Harith whose father had named him Ibrahim but Umar changed his name to abdulrahman. Ibn Hajar al-asqalani, al-isabah fi tamiz al-sahabah, vol. 5, p.29.
2-There was a person called al-ajda' ibn malik umar (also) changed his name to abdulrahman. Ibn Hajar al-asqalani, al-isabah fi tamiz al-sahabah, vol. 1, p.186.
3-There was a person called thalah ibn sa'd. Umar changed his name to 'Moalli'. Al-ootabi, AL-ansab, vol 1, p. 250.
Ibn hajar in his book al-isabah vol. 4 p.587-597 mentions at least 21 of the companions who were called Umar. If indeed Imam Ali named his son Umar (which he didn't) after someone he loved then he could be any of these 21 people and not Umar ibn Khitab.
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UTHMAN: I already mentined this: Imam ALi said: "I have named him after my brother Othman Ibn Madh'oon" and i gave references from shia books. Well here is a reference from Sunni books: AL-Isfahani, Maqatil ul-talebin, vol. 1, p. 23.
If naming your children is because you love someone then all Muslims should call their boys Muhammad!!! Oops again. I will now give you another reason to hate Umar: Ibn batal al-bikri, Sharhe sahih ul-bukhari, vol. 9, p. 344 and also Ibn hajar al-asqalani, fat-hul bari fi sharhe sahih ul-bukhari, vol. 10, p.572:
"Umar wrote a (letter) to the People of Kufa that no one should name his child like the name of the messenger (of Allah)" (Shows how much he loved the prophet!!!).
Did Imam Ali love Umar and Abubakr (to even consider naming his children after them)?
sahih of Muslim, vol. 3 p.1378, No. 1757:
ÝóáóãøóÇ ÊõæõÝøöìó ÑóÓõæáõ Çááøóåö -Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã- ÞóÇáó ÃóÈõæ ÈóßúÑò ÃóäóÇ æóáöìøõ ÑóÓõæáö Çááøóåö -Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã- ÝóÌöÆúÊõãóÇ ÊóØúáõÈõ ãöíÑóÇËóßó ãöäó ÇÈúäö ÃóÎöíßó æóíóØúáõÈõ åóÐóÇ ãöíÑóÇËó ÇãúÑóÃóÊöåö ãöäú ÃóÈöíåóÇ ÝóÞóÇáó ÃóÈõæ ÈóßúÑò ÞóÇáó ÑóÓõæáõ Çááøóåö -Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã- « ãóÇ äõæÑóËõ ãóÇ ÊóÑóßúäóÇ ÕóÏóÞóÉñ ». ÝóÑóÃóíúÊõãóÇåõ ßóÇÐöÈðÇ ÂËöãðÇ ÛóÇÏöÑðÇ ÎóÇÆöäðÇ æóÇááøóåõ íóÚúáóãõ Åöäøóåõ áóÕóÇÏöÞñ ÈóÇÑøñ ÑóÇÔöÏñ ÊóÇÈöÚñ áöáúÍóÞøö Ëõãøó ÊõæõÝøöìó ÃóÈõæ ÈóßúÑò æóÃóäóÇ æóáöìøõ ÑóÓõæáö Çááøóåö -Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã- æóæóáöìøõ ÃóÈöì ÈóßúÑò ÝóÑóÃóíúÊõãóÇäöì ßóÇÐöÈðÇ ÂËöãðÇ ÛóÇÏöÑðÇ ÎóÇÆöäðÇ.
[Imam Ali and Abbas went to see umar for some matters. This is what Umar said to them]: "After the Prophet passed away Abubakr said: 'I am the successor of the Prophet . Then you two people (Ali and Abbas) came and you Abbas asked for what you nephew (i.e. the prophet PBUH) had left (as inheritance) and you Ali came and asked for what had been left for Fatimah as inheritance. Then Abubakr said: 'I heard the Prophet say we (prophets) leave nothing (as inheritance) and what is left from us is sadaqa.' Then you two announced him as A LIAR, A SINNER, A CHEATER AND A BETRAYER and Allah knows!!! that he was an honest faithful and follower of the truth!!! After the death of Abubakr I became the successor of him and the Prophet and again you two announced me as a A LIAR, A SINNER, A CHEATER AND A BETRAYER (as well)."
I can completely see the great Love Ali had towards Umar and Abubakr in these words: " LIAR, SINNER, CHEATER, BETRAYER"
Hope this Helps .
Posted 17 February 2010 - 05:27 PM
These are the names of Imam Ali's children that Sheikh al-Mufid(ra) mentions in Kitab al-Irshad:
3) Zaynab the elder
4) Zaynab the younger (she was given the kunya 'Umm Kulthum'
Their mother was Fatimah al-Zahra
5) Muhammad (he was given the kunya 'Abu al-Qasim')
His mother was Khawla bint Ja'far bin Qays al-Hanafi
They were twins and their mother was Umm Habib bint Rabi'a
These four were martyred in Karbala with their brother Imam al-Husayn . Their mother was Umm Banin bint Hizam bin Khalid bin Darim
12) Muhammad the younger (he was given the kunya Abu Bakr)
13) Ubayd Allah
These two were also martyrs in Karbala with their brother Imam al-Husayn . Their mother was Layla bint Mas'ud al-Darimi
His mother was Asma bint Umays al-Khathami
15) Umm al-Hasan
The mother of these two was Umm Sa'id bint 'Urwa bin Mas'ud al-Thaqafi
18) Zaynab the youngest
19) Ruqayya the younger
20) Umm Hani
21) Umm al-Kiram
22) Jumana (she was given the kunya Umm Ja'far)
24) Umm Salama
These had different mothers. Among the Shia, there are those who speak of another Fatimah who they say was born after the Prophet
This list is to remove any doubts that one might have about Imam Ali 's children.
As for the reasons Ali named his children these names, the Sunnis have no basis for their theory other than pure speculation.
Edited by lotfilms, 17 February 2010 - 05:38 PM.
Posted 27 June 2010 - 08:03 PM
Most of the allegations shias place about the character and the attrocities committed by these so called Califs are from Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari . The attack on the house of the Prophet 's daughter is also from the same book beside others. And many Sunni Ulemah have accepted this fact. ( Very famous Sunni Aalim Maulana Ishaq in his Video Shia Sunni Unity)
As for the marriage of Hazrat Ali's daughter to usman is also wrong . It was some other of the same name . Here the logic applies particularly because of the huge difference of age and the fact that he was also a usurper and the mother of believer herself had termed him as a kaafir and wajib ul qatl. ( Ahle Sunnat narrations)
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