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Stolen Quranic Manuscripts Recovered


Lahore: Two pages of Quranic manuscript written by Imam Hussain (may Allah be pleased with him) on the deer skin which were stolen from the Lahore Museum have been recovered by the Punjab Police from an Iranian military doctor who stole them from the museum two years ago. Among the stolen items were the manuscripts of Shirin Khusro's Masnavi and some other rare items.


The manuscript in Kufic script disappeared from the Museum in 2001 in a mysterious manner. Now the police has arrested Dr. Darwesh, an artist and doctor who used to lecture at Iran Culture House in Lahore on calligraphy and Iranian art. Dr. Darwesh is said to have served in the Iranian army's Art Department and completed his MBBS from King Edward Medical College in Lahore. Since Darwesh did not get a good price for the deer skin manuscripts, it is said the antique piece returned to the Museum for sale and thus led the police to the criminal. Khusro's Masnavi with gilded words was however sold by him for Rs. 20,000 and has also been recovered by the police.


Above is a copy-paste of an interesting article I came across on the internet...I was unaware that an Imam Husayn Quranic Codex also existed at the Lahore Museum in Pakistan.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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I am sorry to say but 6 pages filled with ramblings from a same person doesn't constitute as an informational thread.

If this reply was from someone with the username of YourFutureWife...I could even possibly consider agreeing with you...

Wa Salam.

Edited by Al-Afza

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A postscript related to earlier threads in regards to Qur'anic historicity...

I forgot to mention that aside from the Qur'anic Codice of eight Hashimite Sayeds [from Caliph Ali to Imam Ali ar-Raza], there are only two other supposedly earliest Qur'anic codice...

One is attributed to Muawiyah I's appointed governor of Egypt, Aqabah ibn Amir, and the other to a Khadij ibn Muawiyah ibn Salamah al-Ansari...

The former's codex was allegedly completed in 672 A.D. and is at Al-Amanah Library, Istanbul, Turkey; the latter's codex was allegedly completed in 667 A.D. at the city of Qayrawan for an Amir Aqabah ibn Nafi al-Fahri, and is at Al-Amariah Library, Istanbul, Turkey.


Both Qur'anic manuscripts are in the Kufic derivative MAGHREBI script which wasn't devised until very late in the 8th Century A.D., during the caliphate of Harun al-Rashid[786-809 A.D.] ...

... And these two ERRONEOUSLY attributed manuscripts of the Holy Qur'an are in customary order, NOT chronological order.

It is important to note that the Qur'anic codice actually handwritten by the eight Hashimite Sayeds[from Caliph Ali to Imam Ali ar-Raza] are in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Their arrangement is divided into the periods when Nabih Muhammad(s.a.w) was in Mecca and then after the Hijrah, his time in Madinah; it doesn't literally mean that all the Suwar[scriptures] were specifically revealed only within the cities of Mecca and Madinah. Some of the Suwar[scriptures] were revealed while he was away on journeys or campaigns as well. However, their categorization was done according to his time of residence in Mecca, and then later in Madinah. The shorter Suwar[scriptures] were revealed during his time in Mecca, while the longer ones were revealed after his Hijrah to Madinah.

The real sociopolitical and geopolitical motive behind the Barmaki Administration of Harun al-Rashid's caliphate to rearrange the order of the Quranic Suwar[scriptures] is a subject of serious debate. It was decreed by Harun al-Rashid but it was masterminded by his grand vizier Yahya bin Khalid Barmaki[i.e. Pramukhi].

The Maghrebi script of Morocco[Maghreb] was derived from the Kufic script of Mesopotamia[iraq] and was devised circa 788-790 A.D.; by 795 A.D., the Maghrebi script[alternately referred to as the Kufic Maghrebi script] had gained prominence in the Maghreb[Morocco]; by 796 A.D., the Maghrebi script came to the attention of the Abbasid Caliphate of Harun al-Rashid and the Barmaki Administration.

In 800 A.D., Caliph Harun al-Rashid granted independence to the Maghreb[Morocco] which was subsequently ruled by the Aghlabids from their new capital at Fez. When the only prominent surviving member of the Umayyad Dynasty--Emir Abdur Rahman I--escaped the Abbasid eradication of the Umayyad family, he established the Umayyad Emirate of Spain in 755 A.D. which lasted till 1031 A.D.; Abdur Rahman I bin Muawiyah bin Hisham bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan al-Umawi[the Umayyad] along with only a few surviving members of the Umayyads had fled to Spain from Syria; in 1031 A.D., the Imazighen[Berber] Almoravids ended the Umayyad Emirate of Spain. The Maghrebi script enjoyed an even greater prominence during the Umayyad Emirate of Spain[755-1031 A.D.] than it had in the Maghreb[Morocco], from where it was adopted circa 800 A.D.

The Quranic codice attributed to Khadij bin Muawiyah bin Salamah al-Ansari and Aqabah bin Amir are in the Kufic Maghrebi script of the calligraphic style which belonged to that of the Umayyad Emirate of Spain; there was a slight variation in calligraphic style between the Kufic Maghrebi script of Maghreb[Morocco] and that of the Umayyad Emirate of Spain.

Since Kazim Mudir Shanehchi's monumental work on Quranic manuscripts, there have been more recent research and development in Quranic historicity[eg. Nabia Abbott, Efim Rezvan, Francois Deroche, Martin Lings, Yasin Hamid Safadi, etc.] to name a few. From Shanehchi's work, there were a total of 7 Quranic codice credited to Hazrat Ali ibn Abu Talib; two at Astaneh-Quds-e-Razavi in Mashhad, Iran; two at Topkapi Sarayi in Istanbul, Turkey; one at Al-Husayn Masjid in Cairo, Egypt; and two at Najaf, Iraq--one still existing at Dar Al-Kutub Al-Alawiyah and another at the shrine of Ubaydullah bin Ali; the latter codex is now missing. Of these, there are three that have been confirmed to be that of Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib of which two are complete Qurans and one with some folios of Suwar[scriptures] missing. The ones that are complete, are in 341 folios of gazelle-skin parchment handwritten by Imam Ali in Kufic script. The codice at Topkapi are erroneously attributed to Imam Ali in that they are not signed and dated by him personally, unlike the others; also, their calligraphic style is from a later period, not to mention that they are NOT in chronological order like the others but in customary order. The one at Al-Husayn Mosque was denied access for examination by the Cairo authorities to recent Quranic scholars and researchers...Just as the denial of forensic examination of Prophet Muhammad's beard samples that have reportedly been preserved at Al-Husayn Mosque.

There is an 8th Quranic codex linked to Caliph Ali at the Grand Mosque in Sana, Yemen; this codex is in unpointed Kufic script and is in two volumes[a total of 300 pages with 150 pages per volume]; it is also reportedly co-scripted by Hazrat Salman Farsi and Zayd bin Thabit al-Ansari; however, Hazrat Salman passed away on 13th Ramadhan 35 A.H.[Wed 19th Mar 656 A.D.] or BEFORE Hazrat Ali became Caliph of Islam and commissioned Abi Dawud Al-Asadi Al-Kufi to devise an Arabic script exclusively for Quranic manuscripts which was Al-Khatt Al-Kufi[i.e. the Kufic scirpt]; as for Zayd bin Thabit's involvement, there is no documented hard evidence of this nor any historicity of when he actually died, or if he even lived during Hazrat Ali's caliphate.

Imam Hasan ibn Ali has the next highest number of Quranic codice after Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib with no less than three...The Quranic codice of 8 of the Hashimite Sayeds[from Caliph Ali to Imam Ali ar-Raza] being in CHRONOLOGICAL order all begin with Surah Al-Alaq[The Clot] as the very first Quranic surah[scripture], and not Surah Al-Hamd[The Praise]/Al-Fatihah[The Opening] as in the customary order.

Also, from reviewing Dr. Ahmad Shafaat's essay on Quranic manuscripts, Dr. Shafaat records from other sources that the inscription of Abdul Rahman Ibn Khair al-Hajri's tomb[dated Jumada II, 31 A.H./Jan-Feb, 652 A.D.], is said to be in "poor Kufic". If Dr. Shafaat had maybe viewed the actual photograph of this tomb inscription, he would have clearly observed that it is in NO WAY KUFIC but in fact the Ma'il script inscribed with apparent great difficulty by its inscriptionist. The Ma'il scipt was written in an upright form and achieved its distinct slant or slope during the caliphate of Hazrat Ali.

The apellations of the Ma'il[sloping/slanting] and Mashq[extended/elongated] Hejazi Arabic scripts were received during the caliphate of Hazrat Ali Ibn Abu Talib, probably by Caliph Ali himself. Prior to Hazrat Ali's caliphate, going far back to Pre-Islamic days, the Ma'il and Mashq Hejazi-originated Arabic scripts were called muqawwar wa mudawwar[curved and round] & mabsut wa mustaqim[elongated and straight]; both scripts were prevalent in Pre-Islamic Arabian Peninsula[excluding Yemen & Oman] and were derived from the Nabataean[North Arabic] Al-Darij script of Urdunn[Jordan] and the Cursive Arabic Musnad of Yemen.


Here are URL's from the Islamic Awareness Website which depict the muqawwar wa mudawwar script[i.e. before its later sloping style as Ma'il] in both the Zuhayr inscription dated 24 A.H.[644 A.D.] and the tomb inscription of Abdul Rahman Ibn Khair al-Hajri dated 31 A.H.[652 A.D.] :



It is CLEARLY VISIBLE that NEITHER are in Kufic script; the Ibn Khair al-Hajri tombstone inscription can be clearly seen as an attempt to inscribe the muqawwar wa mudawwar[curved & round] script with squarish effort; it actually ends up closely resembling the Cursive Arabic Musnad script of Yemen in squarish style; the few line inscriptions at the bottom gives the impression that the inscriber also tried to incorporate the mabsut wa mustaqim[elongated & straight] script. How on earth the Islamic Awareness team equate this al-Hajri tomb inscription with the Kufic script is beyond anyone.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Linked to an earlier posting because the Khazaria map somehow got blocked...

The Khazars were descendants-heirs of the Scythians[Askenazi] just as the Assyrians[Ashuri] were descendants-heirs of the Akkadians[Akkadu]; Chaldeans[Kaldu] were descendants-heirs of the Babylonians[Babilu]; Sassanian Persians were descendants-heirs of the Achaemenian Persians; etc...

Scythia[skuza=Archer]=Askenaz/Ashkuz circa 100 B.C.


Khazaria[scythia] circa 850 A.D.


Khazaria[scythia] circa 920 A.D.



Also, there is EMERGING archaeological evidence that the Star Of David[Magen David] or Shield Of David symbol came to Egyptian-Palestinian Judaism from Khazarian origin.

The earliest appearance of the Star Of David is traditionally the 2nd oldest Hebrew language Bible[The Tanakh] pictured below :

The Cairo[Leningrad] Codex of 1008 A.D.


The Cairo[Leningrad] Codex being a COMPLETE Hebrew language Bible or Old Testament : Tanakh; the earlier or very first Tanakh[Hebrew language Bible] being the Tiberian[Aleppo/Halab] Codex of 916 A.D.; That codex does not depict the Star Of David symbol.

Also pictured below, is a Khazarian Star Of David circa 850 A.D :


From an encyclopedic article, here is the following copy-paste :

Engravings resembling the Jewish Star of David were unearthed at two Khazar sites, one along the Donets River in eastern Ukraine and the other along the Don River in southern Russia. This one is a circular metal disc, interpreted by Professor Bozena Werbart of Umea University as Jewish but seen by others as shamanistic or pagan. The circular nature of the disc may represent the sun, and the 6 points may represent rays of the sun. Scholars lean towards assigning the disc to Tengri shamanism due to the fact that there are also known examples of Khazarian sun discs with 5 or 7 points, rather than consistently 6. Some of the Jewish-Turkic graves at Chelarevo in what used to be Hungary contain engravings of the Star of David and are believed to belong to Khazar Kabar migrants. However, the claim that the Star of David first became a symbol of Jewish nationalism in Khazaria is by no means certain.


The one crucial point is that the Khazarian Star Of David[even if it is derived from shaman solar disc symbols], archaeologically precedes the Shield Of David's appearance in the Middle East. The hexagram was a symbol that appeared during the times of the Scythians[Askenazi] as well. This preceded the dynasty of the Khazars.

In medieval Rabbinical literature, the Khazars were recorded as being the progeny of Kozar, a son of Togarmah; In the book of Genesis, Togarmah was the third son of Gomer and grandson of Japheth, brother of Askenaz[Ascanius] and Riphat.

However, this legend and folklore regarding Kozar is from Rabbinical literature and not recorded in the first two Tanakhs[Hebrew language Bibles] of 916 A.D. and 1008 A.D. ...

As it stands in historicity, without the semi-mythical genealogy of the Khazars from Togarmah, the Khazars were descendants-heirs of the Askenaz[scythians].

The three prevalent THEORIES regarding the progeny of Togarmah :

The Caucasus Theory has Togarmah the progenitor of the Georgians and Armenians.

The Turkic Theory has Togarmah the progenitor of the Turkomens and Khazars.

For the Judaic Theory, here is a copy-paste from an encyclopedic article on the subject :

In Jewish sources too Togarmah is listed as the father of the Turkic peoples: The medieval Jewish scholar: Joseph ben Gorion lists in his Josippon the ten sons of Togarma thusly:

  1. Kozar (the Khazars)
  2. Pacinak (the Pechenegs)
  3. Aliqanosz (the Alans)
  4. Bulgar (the Bulgars)
  5. Ragbiga (Ragbina, Ranbona)
  6. Turqi (possibly the Kökturks)
  7. Buz (the Oghuz)
  8. Zabuk
  9. Ungari (either the Hungarians or the Oghurs/Onogurs)
  10. Tilmac (Tilmic)."

In the Chronicles of Jerahmeel, they are listed as:

  1. Cuzar (the Khazars)
  2. Pasinaq (the Pechenegs)
  3. Alan (the Alans)
  4. Bulgar (the Bulgars)
  5. Kanbinah
  6. Turq (possibly the Kökturks)
  7. Buz (the Oghuz)
  8. Zakhukh
  9. Ugar (either the Hungarians or the Oghurs/Onogurs)
  10. Tulmes

Another medieval rabbinic work, the Book of Jasher, further corrupts these same names into:

  1. Buzar (the Khazars)
  2. Parzunac (the Pechenegs)
  3. Balgar (the Bulgars)
  4. Elicanum (the Alans)
  5. Ragbib
  6. Tarki (the Kökturks)
  7. Bid (the Oghuz)
  8. Zebuc
  9. Ongal (Hungarians or Oghurs/Onogurs)
  10. Tilmaz.

Also in his letters, King Joseph ben Aaron, the ruler of the Khazars, writes:

"You ask us also in your epistle: "Of what people, of what family, and of what tribe are you?" Know that we are descended from Japhet, through his son Togarmah. I have found in the genealogical books of my ancestors that Togarmah had ten sons. These are their names: the eldest was Ujur (Agiôr - Uyghur), the second Tauris (Tirôsz - Tauri), the third Avar (Avôr - Avar), the fourth Uauz (Ugin - Oghuz), the fifth Bizal (Bizel - Pecheneg), the sixth Tarna, the seventh Khazar (Khazar), the eighth Janur (Zagur), the ninth Bulgar (Balgôr - Bulgar), the tenth Sawir (Szavvir/Szabir - Sabir).


In summation, the Khazars adopted Judaism as their state religion in 740 A.D. under King Bulan; King Bulan's name meant "elk" in Old Turkic language. So far, the oldest hexagram symbol of the Khazar age dates to circa 760 A.D.; however, Scythian hexagram symbols dating back to circa 360 B.C. have been found. This symbol of the hexagram[essentially the Star Of David] is a cultural link between the Scythians[Askenazi] and their heirs, the Khazars.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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To append to my previous post, there are only TWO purported occurrences of the appearance of the hexagram[six-pointed star] in relation to Judaism in Palestine from early historical times...

The first one, a 6th century B.C. hexagram seal in an alleged ruins of a synagogue, has NEVER been properly verified. It remains only in the history books as a mere report.

The second occurrence has been verified. It is the Kfar Nachum[Capernaum] Synagogue of the 3rd-4th Century A.D. in Palestine[israel]. This synagogue is actually right beside an early Christian church. Also, there is a five-pointed star that appears on the very same synagogue. However, archaeologists do not consider the hexagram and pentagram as Judaic symbols but ornamental designs of the Kfar Nachum[Capernaum] Synagogue.

The next appearance of the hexagram in Judaic history in the Middle East is upon the 2nd oldest publication of the Tanakh[Hebrew language Bible or Old Testament] : the Cairo[Leningrad] Codex of 1008 A.D.; this occurrence of the hexgram is still officially regarded as its earliest recognition as a Jewish symbol in Middle Eastern Judaism.

Below are images of the Kfar Nachum[Capernaum] Synagogue hexagram and pentagram circa 300 A.D. :



Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Here is an interesting, lengthy article from this Negrocentric Messianic Hebrew Israelite website :


There are some very valid & thought-provoking points made ...


13th_tribe.gif"The large majority of surviving Jews in the world are of Eastern European descent - and thus perhaps mainly of Khazar origin. If so, this would mean that their ancestors came not from the Jordan but from the volga, not from Canaan but from the Caucasus, once believed to be the cradle of the Aryan race; and that genetically they are more closely related to the Hun, uigur, and Magyar tribes than to the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob".


page 17


DESCENDANTS OF THE BIBLICAL ISRAELITES is the answer most people will give when confronted with this question. But is this true, if you have read all the pages on this site up until now, you know the answer is no. To prove this all we have to do is look to history for this answer. The Israeli Jews consists of two groups (Ashkenazi and Sephardim), ten to twenty percent are known as Sephardim or Eastern Jew, the remaining eighty to ninety percent are known as Ashkenazi or European Jew. The Ashkenazi Jew comes from Eastern European countries, the Sephardim comes from "Mideast countries". Let history show us who the KHAZARS and Sephardim were and are:

In the year 450 A.D. one of Europe's barbaric tribes was beginning to show signs of restlessness. This tribe was called the KHAZARS (Chazars). Within the next two hundred years, the KHAZARS would form Eastern Europe's largest and most powerful kingdom. They would rule supreme for about 200 years, ranking in power with the Muslim Caliphate and the Byzantine Empire. Their kingdom, of approximately one million square miles, bordered the Aral sea on the east; Kiev and the Ukrainian Steppes on the west: the Caucasus mountain and the Black Sea on the south: and the Ural mountain on the north.

khazaria.gifKhazaria represented a very important period in European history, without their valor, Europe would have probably been one 100% Muslim today. Why don't we hear more about the KHAZARS and their mighty empire today?

Now lets look at the genealogy of the KHAZARS. Since this matter is so important, we shall allow the Kagan or King of the KHAZARS to inform us. A Khazar King named Joseph corresponded with a Spanish Israelite named Hasdai Ibn Sharprut sometime between 954 and 961 C.E. (Manuscripts of this correspondence may be seen in the Library of Christ Church at Oxford, England and in the Leningrad Public Library in Leningrad, Russia) Hasdai was the chief minister of the Caliph of Cordoba Abd - al - Rahman III.

At that time Cordoba was the splendor of Moorish Spain (a mixture of black skinned Muslims and Israelites ), and was the main center of European Culture. In his letter to Hasdai, King Joseph stated that he was from the line of JAPHETH, FROM THE SEED OF TOGARMAH, Japheth's grandson. He further stated that Togarmah, who was the brother of ASHKENAZ, had ten sons and the KHAZARS represented the seventh son. With his own lips, this King had given the root of his being and the lineage of his offspring which was from the sons of Japheth .

Let us now see what the scriptures have to say about Japheth and Togarmah. In the book of Genesis 10: 2 - 5. "The sons of Japheth: Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. and the sons of Gomer: ASHKENAZ, AND Riphath, and Togarmah. And the sons of Javan: Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. By these were THE ISLES OF THE GENTILE divided in their lands everyone after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

According to the King of the KHAZARS, his people descended from the family of Magog. Like all European nations at the time, the KHAZARS were pagans. However, ca. 740 C.E. King Bulan initiated the conversion of his kingdom to a new and different philosophy. Before the conversion, the Kagan invited representatives of Christianity, Islam and the Israelites to discuss the three doctrines. It was unanimously agreed, in response to the Kagan's question, that the doctrine of the Israelites was closest to the truth, he came to this conclusion because both the Christians (Byzantine) and Muslims both respected the Hebrew scriptures.

And also in order for the KHAZARS to remain independent they chose the faith that neither the Christian or Muslims was part of but both respected. After the conversion the Khazar King changed his name to become King Obadiah. They displayed much hope but very little understanding, especially of spiritual matters. Eventually, they had to invent their own brand of the law which later they named Judaism. The word "Judaism" cannot be found in the writings of the Prophets of old, neither is it found anywhere in the Holy Scriptures. Judaism, is a misunderstanding or perversion of the customs of the ancient Israelites, as practiced by the KHAZARS.

Arthur Koestler in his very noteworthy book "THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE gives further detailed information about the KHAZARS and their conversion to the faith of the Israelites and how the majority of today's European Jews are direct descendants of them. The information contained in his book is backed up by scripture that show's the Jews are Gentiles, not natural -born Israelites

According to Microsoft Encarta, "Today, about 85% of all Jews are Ashkenazim". The Ashkenazi are not descendants of Israel, Ashkenaz was the grandson of Japheth and brother of Togarmah. Arthur Koestler further explains why today's Jews call themselves Ashkenazi even though they are the Physical seed of Togarmah. He shows that the KHAZARS took on the name of Ashkenaz because it was prophesied in Jeremiah 51:27 that Ashkenaz and their allies would conquer Babylon.

After reading all the historical and biblical information about who are and who are not the true Israelites according to the flesh, should make us have an full understanding of Revelation 12:9. which states : And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent called the devil and Satan, which deceive the whole world.

The whole world is deceived not only about the right way to worship YHWH, but they are deceived about who are the true Israelites a people near and dear unto YHWH (psalms 148:14).

The second half of the Jewish populace in the land of Yisrael today are the Sephardim or Eastern Jew / Edomites. They have been in the land for over 1900 years , since the 1st century C.E. They are indigenous to the "Mideast". These are the real Edomites (descendants of Jacob twin Esau or Edom) they have lived side by side with the Arab population for many centuries. They are truly descendant from Shem, these Jews are different from the Ashkenazi in appearance they have darker skin and look more like the darker Arab population of the "Mid East", they also comprise less than 20% of the Israeli population. But it would appear that this small segment "Children of Shem" (NOT SEMITES) lineage is cleverly used, along with "Judaism" to imply the "Shemitic" origin of all Israelis Jews.

These Sephardim entered the land in the first century C.E., along with the Romans when Israel was being kicked out of the land, as it is written in the book of Obadyah. 2 "Behold, I have made you small among the heathen: you are GREATLY DESPISED."

While verses 10 - 16 tells us of Edom's injustice against the Israelites and the prophesy of their curse. "For your violence against your brother Jacob shame shall cover you, and you shall be cut off for ever.

verse 11 In the day that you stood on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even you was as one of them.

verse 12 But you should not have looked on the day of your brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither should you have spoken proudly in the day of distress,

verse 13 You SHOULD NOT HAVE ENTERED INTO THE GATE OF MY PEOPLE IN THE DAY OF THEIR CALAMITY: yeah, you should not have look on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands ON THEIR SUBSTANCE IN THE DAY OF THEIR CALAMITY:

verse 14 Neither should you have stood in the crossway, to cut off his that did escape; neither should you have you have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.

verse 15 For the day of YHWH is near upon all the heathen: as you have done, IT SHALL BE DONE UNTO YOU: YOUR REWARD SHALL RETURN UPON YOUR OWN HEAD.

verse 16 For as you have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea they shall drink, and they shall shallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been".

The Sephardim / Edomite / Eastern Jews are being oppressed big time by the Ashkenazi and because they have joined with the Ashkenazi and call themselves Jews, the surrounding Arab population despise them just as much as they do the Ashkenazi. So they have it coming both ways, but this is their punishment for helping to mistreat the Israelites.

In a book by a Ashkenazi Jew Jack Bernstein entitled 'LIFE OF AN AMERICAN JEW IN RACIST, MARXIST ISRAEL', he tells of his experience in Israel which was not a pleasant one, but he tells of how he married a Sephardim woman and the hatred and discrimination he received from the Ashkenazi population even though he himself is a Ashkenazi. But because he was married to a Sephardim he caught all kinds of hell, the Sephardim are second class citizens in Israel, for this reason Jack Bernstein calls Israel racist, because anybody who is not Ashkenazi is treated as second class citizens.

The Sephardim / Edomites came into the land and laid their hands on Israel possessions and pretended to be the Hebrews, but as Yah said, he would return their reward on their own head. So now the Ashkenazi has come in and move them over and they are pretending to be the true Hebrews and laid their hands on Edom possessions, but this is just the fulfillment of prophecy. I find it interesting that the Sephardim are looked at and called Niggers by the Ashkenazi.

This racistjew.jpgfact Mr. Bernstein points out in his book on page 39

"One Day I entered a café in Tel Aviv, The place was crowded and I sat down on the only seat available. Also sitting at this table were five Sephardim Jews from Morocco. they learned that I was studying the Hebrew language so they were helping me with my studies when a blue eyed Nazi type Israeli Police officer walked into the café. He ordered me to "GET AWAY FROM THOSE KOOSHIM" . "KOOSHIM" in Hebrew means "[Edited Out]".

The Ashkenazi are treating the Sephardim in a similar manner as we are being treated in the United States.

One thing we have learnt is that history rewards all those that do the research. History has showed us that the Jews are not Israelites but Gentiles. We have learnt that this Gentile has descended from the families of Japheth (Togarmah, Gomer, Gig, Magog) and not from the House of Jacob. We have also learnt that Edom has joined with this Gentile to deliberately pervert the word of YHWH.

The Israelites descended from Jacob; while the KHAZARS descended from Japheth and the Edomites from Esau. The Israelites originated from northeastern Africa; while the KHAZARS originated from southeastern Europe and the Edomites from the southern Palestine/Jordan area.

The Majority of Israelites have black skin, according to the Holy Scripture, with woolly hair. The Israelis have white skin, mostly blue eyes, long straight hair.

The Israelites spoke Egyptian, Hebrew, Aramaic and later Greek, Roman, Spanish, various West African languages and today the various languages of the Americas. The Israelis (KHAZARS) spoke a language called Yiddish which many of them still speak.

The Israelites practiced the faith of their forefathers as commanded by their creator through Moshe and written in their history book, the holy scriptures.

The Israelis practice a pagan philosophy called Judaism (those few who have a religious belief). The Israelites traveled by way of the Red Sea and the Jordan; while the KHAZARS traveled by the way of the Caspian Sea and the Volga, and the Edomites by way of the Dead or salt Sea and the Arabah.

The Israelites came from Canaan through the lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Yaaqob; while the KHAZARS came from the Caucasus through Gomer, Togarmah and Khazar, and the Edomites from Mount Seir through Abraham, Isaac and Esau or Edom.

Finally, according to the Holy Scriptures, Yah himself selected the Israelites and hated the Edomites (Malachi 1: 1-5), while according to history, the KHAZARS were chosen by men.




Have you ever wondered how the Jews have been able to keep control of the land of Israel for over 50 years?

Have you ever wonder how the Jews are able to defeat their enemies, in all their wars?

Many of the bible reading public will say BECAUSE THEY ARE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL AND GOD HAS BLESSED THEM@. Some even use certain prophecies in scripture to try prove their point. Christian Ministers such as Dr Jack Van Impe, Hal Lindsey and others, say Ezekiel 37:10-12 was fulfilled when the Jews came into the land of Israel in 1948. They also say Luke 21:24 was fulfilled during the 1967 six day war, when the Jews took total control of the city of Jerusalem. Lets take a look at those verses of scriptures for those who are not familiar with them.

Ezekiel 37:10-12

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

These "Bible teacher@ also say when the Jews came into the land of Israel in 1948, this began the countdown to the Battle of Armageddon.

This site proves with the guidance of YAH, the Jews are not the descendants of the biblical Israelites. Those prophecies found in Ezekiel and Luke don=t refer to the Ashkenazi Jews. This is the mystery that many so called bible teachers and students don=t know. Their understanding of prophecy is thrown off because they don=t know who the true Israelites are. The Jews are mention in Prophecy, just not the prophecies concerning true Israel. This page will bring out that Information, with the guidance of YAH, we will show you where the Jews are in prophecy and what those prophecies are.

We must understand that all things are controlled by YAH, he uses whom he will to bring about his will. The Jews are helping to bring about YAH=S will. Just how you might ask, well we will let the scriptures explain to us what it is.


QUESTION: "If the Jews are not descendants of the biblical Israelites, then why are they in the land of Israel@.

The Jews are allowed to inhabit Israel for a few major reasons. Let us look at the reasons, from scripture.

GENESIS 9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Many people don=t know it, but this is the first prophecy telling us that the Jews will live in the land of Israel. Not as Israelites but as the sons of Japheth or Gentiles. Genesis 9:27 is a prophecy given by Noah to his sons, in this prophecy he pronounces a curse upon his grandson Canaan.

But Notice what he says about his other two sons Japheth and Shem, he says Yah shall Enlarge Japheth and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem. Shem tents can be called his home, the people in that day lived in tents. This prophecy is telling us Japheth's descendants (sons) shall dwell in the house of Shem. The house of Shem is the land of Israel, because this is where Shem=s descendants lived. The sons of Japheth (Gentiles) shall live in the land of Israel. But not only do they live in the tents of Shem the land of Israel, they are living like Shem descendants. Those sons of Japheth are the Jewish people, the Jews are Gentiles. They are not Israelites. Gentile are descendants of Noah=s son Japheth.

The European Jews (who control Israel) are called the Ashkenazi Jews, this shows us they are one of the sons of Japheth.

Noah's prophecy reveals YHWH (YAH) knew the Israelites would also sin and lose possession of the promised land. However, unlike the Canaanite, Israel's loss would not be a complete forfeiture because YHWH promised the land to Abraham and his seed forever. Their loss would be a temporary occupation of the land by the descendants of Japheth. Dwelling in the tents of Shem has dual significance. Not only does it imply the occupation of the land given to Shem, but also implies Japheth would cloak himself with Shem's covering (tent) and appear to be Shem.

The original Hebrew working of this verse magnifies this important detail. In the King James version the verse reads,


AYah shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant@.

The word translated here as

ENLARGE@ is the Hebrew word PATHAH {Paw-thaw}. Pathah is used 28 times in the bible. In every instance, the word conveys the sense of someone enticing or being enticed, deceiving or being deceived. Obviously enlarge doesn't fit as a meaning for the word Pathah. Even though Strong's Concordance and dictionary lists enlarge as a possible meaning for this Hebrew word, we must realize that Strong's dictionary only lists how the word has been translated in the King James version.

A more accurate translation of Pathah may be ascertained by examining how the word was used throughout the Bible. Furthermore, in other verses where the English word enlarge is used correctly, it is translated from the Hebrew word rachag {raw - khab} or rabah {raw-baw}.

If Moses intended to convey the sense of Japheth being enlarged he would have used rachab or rabah. Since Moses used Pathah, we know that he intended to convey the sense of Japheth being either deceived or enticed. The reason the translators substituted the word enlarge for the correct translation may be that they could not understand why YHWH (YAH) would allow Japheth to be enticed or deceived. However, YHWH has allowed the whole world to be deceived so that his plan will be fulfilled, a plan that will maximize the salvation of mankind (Revelations 12:9).

Applying the correct translation to Genesis 9:27, the verse reads

AYHWH shall entice/deceive Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant@.

Japheth has been enticed and deceived into believing that they are the descendants of Shem. Many of the descendants of Japheth - the KHAZARS (JEWS), Anglos, and Saxons in particular - believe they are Israelites (Hebrews).

Thus the meaning of Noah's prophecy is that Japheth would be enticed and deceived. Arthur Koestler points to this deeper significance of Japheth in the tents of Shem in his book The Thirteenth Tribe. He shows the Jews of today are the descendants of Japheth, not the descendants of Shem. They are dwelling in the tents of Shem as prophesied by YHWH, they call themselves Jews, and subsequently, are thought to be the descendants of Shem. Koestler writes:

"How important, in quantitative terms is that presence of the Caucasian sons of Japheth in the tents of Shem?"

By the Jews living in the land of Israel today, they are fulfilling the prophecy in Genesis 27: Japheth descendants are dwelling in the tents (house/land) of Shem descendants.


End of copy-paste.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir...

Edited by Al-Afza

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From KJV (King James Version) Bible - Old Testament :


Chapter 9

1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,

9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;

10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.

11 And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:

15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.

19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.

20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

28 And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.

29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.


Alluding to my prior post and the Messianic Hebrew Israelite website's interpretation of Genesis 9:27, we can now get a composite picture of the circumstances which verse 27 of chapt. 9(Genesis) actually apply...

The problem with so many Judeo-Christian, Christian Zionist, Evangelical, Messianic Hebrew Israelite, etc., exegetical perspectives, is that they either take things way out of context or read far more into the TRANSLATED Biblical verses to make any valid claim of sensibility.

What are we to deduce from this? Canaan(Kinanah) is cursed? But Shem and Japheth are not? What did Canaan(Kinanah) really do to warrant his paternal grandfather Noah cursing him? NOTHING AT ALL. It was his father Ham who came upon his father's naked state...After all, according to the Biblical translators, the man of God Noah was DRUNK from the vineyard which he himself planted...Then [audhubillah] lies naked in his tent. All Ham did was inform his two brothers Shem & Japheth about it. As it so happened, Ham's eyes came upon his father Noah's naked, drunken state by accident. It was not intentional. And yet he is cursed by Noah for this...And so this entire Biblical narrative MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL EVEN AT A PURELY ALLEGORICAL LEVEL. What is the moral of this narrative? It not only makes no sense at all but is downright UNJUST.

So Canaan(Kinanah), son of Ham, is cursed by Noah for something he took no part in; something his father did and even at that, it was nothing really bad; inexplicably, the only thing that can be commented upon is why Ham did not cover [audhubillah] the naked, drunken Noah with a garment himself; the other sons of Noah--Shem & Japheth--were informed of Noah's [audhubillah] drunk & naked state, so they had the forethought to cover him with the garment while their faces were turned away, not looking at Noah; furthermore, Shem & Japheth will have Canaan(Kinanah) subservient to them; nor is it really clear whether Canaan(Kinanah) will be the servant of Shem or the Lord God of Shem; but Japheth will live in the tents of Shem and Canaan(Kinanah) will be his servant, also.

From all of this, we get the alleged Biblical "prophecy" from Genesis 9:27 about Japheth [or his descendants, i.e. the Ashkenazi/European Jews] deceptively dwelling in the tents of Shem [i.e. Shemites/Semites]. But then who are the Canaanites(Al-Kinanah)?? According to EVERY Biblical tradition, the land of Canaan comprised Palestine, Jordan, and Syria, so the Canaanites should be Semites[i.e. Shemites or Beni Shem]...But then they are not. Genesis says Canaanites are the posterity of Ham which would make them Hamitic[i.e. African as in Berber/Imazighen and NOT Sub-Saharan/Negro]. Talk about the utter confusion and mixed up imagination of all those ancient & medieval Biblical translators, whoever they really were!

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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One of the main reasons why the Tabernacle is considered to be greater than the Holy Kaaba, is because the posterity of Ishmael[ismail] was never considered to have had Patriarch Abraham's covenant with them. And since in Saracen[Eastern] tradition, the Kaaba was built by Abraham and his eldest son Ishmael, it was thus rejected in Judeo-Christianity. In Judeo-Christianity, Isaac was taken to the altar for sacrifice upon Yahweh/Al-Lah's command. In the Qur'an, it was Ishmael...And because of this, Almighty God blessed the aged Patriarch Abraham with ANOTHER son through his aged spouse Lady Sarah named ISAAC(Is-haq)...

Genesis 17

1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

15And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

16And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

17Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

18And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

22And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

23And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

24And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

25And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

26In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. 27And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.


Now speak of diametrically opposed messages from the Biblical translators !!

Here we have Almighty God[Allah/Yahweh] clearly stating that ALL of Patriarch Ibrahim's seed who will be circumsized, HAS AN EVERLASTING COVENANT WITH ALMIGHTY GOD.

Both patriarchs Abraham and Ishmael were circumsized on the selfsame day !

What greater proof from the Bible itself of Almighty God's covenant with Patriarch Abraham through his eldest son Patriarch Ishmael !

The emboldened and underlined Biblical verses from Genesis 17 CLEARLY indicate that Patriarch Ishmael had an everlasting covenant with Almighty God. Now, the Biblical translators have just placed this GLARING CONTRADICTION upon [audhubillah] Almighty God Himself !!

If you would have READ the verses 100-113 of Surah As-Saffat[The Ranks], you would have clearly understood that after Patriarch Ibrahim asked Almighty God for the righteous[in reference to his progeny]...Patriarch Ibrahim was given Patriarch Ishmael.

In verses 100-108, as an answer to his prayer, Patriarch Ibrahim gets Nabih Ishma-El = God hears; God has hearkened; God is Hearing.


Rabbi hab lee mina alssaliheena

My Lord! grant me of the doers of good deeds.


Fabashsharnahu bighulamin haleemin

So We gave him the good news of a boy, possessing forbearance.


Falamma balagha maAAahu alssaAAya qala ya bunayya innee ara fee almanami annee athbahuka faonthur matha tara qala ya abati ifAAal ma tumaru satajidunee in shaa Allahu mina alssabireena

And when he attained to working with him, he said: O my son! surely I have seen in a dream that I should sacrifice you; consider then what you see. He said: O my father! do what you are commanded; if Allah please, you will find me of the patient ones.


Falamma aslama watallahu liljabeeni

So when they both submitted and he threw him down upon his forehead,


Wanadaynahu an ya ibraheemu

And We called out to him saying: O Ibrahim!


Qad saddaqta alrruya inna kathalika najzee almuhsineena

"Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.


Inna hatha lahuwa albalao almubeenu

Most surely this is a manifest trial.


Wafadaynahu bithibhin AAatheemin

And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:


Watarakna AAalayhi fee al-akhireena

And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:


Salamun AAala ibraheema

Peace be unto Abraham!


Kathalika najzee almuhsineena

Thus do We reward the doers of good.


Innahu min AAibadina almumineena

Surely he was one of Our believing servants.


Wabashsharnahu bi-ishaqa nabiyyan mina alssaliheena

And we gave him tidings of the birth of Isaac, a prophet of the righteous.


Wabarakna AAalayhi waAAala ishaqa wamin thurriyyatihima muhsinun wathalimun linafsihi mubeenun

And We showered Our blessings on him and on Ishaq; and of their offspring are the doers of good, and (also) those who are clearly unjust to their own souls.


The verses 112 & 113 CLEARLY indicated that Patriarch Isaac[ishaq] was an additional son to Patriarch Abraham[ibrahim].

You see COMMON SENSE & LOGIC prevail. When his wife Lady Sarah was barren and aged, Patriarch Abraham took himself a surrogate spouse in Lady Hagar[Hajira]. Prophet Abraham could hardly have been the father of many nations if he was unable to sire any offspring...

As a result, Patriarch Ishma-El [God hears] is born.

However, Almighty God decides to test Patriarch Abraham and commands him in a dream to sacrifice his ONLY HEIR...

Patriarch Abraham goes through with it but Almighty God spares him his sacrifice via a miracle : the lamb is sacrificed instead of Ishmael[ismail].

As a FURTHER token of Almighty God's magnanimity and generosity, He gives Patriarch Abraham the glad tidings of another heir in Isaac[ishaq] from his aged and barren first wife Lady Sarah.

When Lady Sarah was given this news from Almighty God's angelic messengers, she laughed at this incredulous news...Hence, when the second heir was born, he was named Isaac = He will laugh.

This above account is also covered in the Holy Qur'an in Surah Hud :


Waimraatuhu qa-imatun fadahikat fabashsharnaha bi-ishaqa wamin wara-i ishaqa yaAAqooba

And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed: But we gave her glad tidings of Isaac, and after him, of Jacob.


Qalat ya waylata aalidu waana AAajoozun wahatha baAAlee shaykhan inna hatha lashay-on AAajeebun

She said: "Alas for me! shall I bear a child, seeing I am an old woman, and my husband here is an old man? That would indeed be a wonderful thing!"


Qaloo ataAAjabeena min amri Allahi rahmatu Allahi wabarakatuhu AAalaykum ahla albayti innahu hameedun majeedun

They said: "Dost thou wonder at Allah's decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, o ye people of the house! for He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of all glory!"

P.S.--Most Muslims rarely discuss the first family that was identified by Allah(swt) as AHLUL BAYT [PEOPLE OF THE HOUSE] in the Holy Qur'an; Prophet Muhammad's family was the second family whom Allah(swt) identifies as the AHLUL BAYT [PEOPLE OF THE HOUSE] in Ayat Tatheer 33:33.


In the Bible's Book of Genesis, Chapter 17, verses 2; 4; 7; 9, Almighty God CLEARLY states that He will have a covenant with Patriarch Abraham and his seed after him. God does NOT EXCLUDE any of Patriarch Abraham's seed. ALL are included :

2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

In Verse 10, Almighty God then instructs Patriarch Abraham as to what that covenant will require : Circumcision of all that ARE BORN IN ABRAHAM'S HOUSE and ALL that are bought with his money.

In Verse 11, God explains that the act of circumcision is a TOKEN of His covenant with Patriarch Abraham.

In Verse 13, God states that His covenant will be in Patriarch Abraham's FLESH itself :

Genesis 17:13

and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

It will also be an EVERLASTING COVENANT.

The following Biblical verses of Genesis UNMISTAKABLY state that both Patriarchs, Abraham and his eldest son Ishmael, have CONSECRATED that everlasting covenant with Almighty God :

23And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

24And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

25And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

26In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.

Consequently, the Judeo-Christian BIBLE has UNMISTAKABLY ESTABLISHED that Prophet Ishmael DID HAVE AN EVERLASTING CONVENANT WITH ALMIGHTY GOD…In God's very own words as translated into Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and English.

Thus, the verses Genesis 17:19-21

19 Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Are INCONSISTENT with all the other verses regarding Almighty God's COVENANT with Patriarch Abraham and Abraham's seed after him…

Verses 17:19-21 were possibly either doctored or were wholly inconsistent insertions by the Biblical translators…

If Verses 17:19-21 would have stated I will ALSO establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. and But my covenant will I ALSO establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year…

Then, that would have made a lot more sense and it would NOT have been inconsistent with the other verses regarding Almighty God's covenant with Patriarch Abraham and his seed after him.

This ALSO brings into question Genesis chapter & verses 16:11-12, in which an unnamed Angel of the Lord relates to Lady Hagar[Hajira] :

11And the Angel of the Lord continued, See now, you are with child and shall bear a son, and shall call his name Ishma-El [God hears], because the Lord has heard and paid attention to your affliction.

12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brothers.

Verse 12 IS IN CLEAR CONTRADICTION with the highly favourable verses of Genesis 17, in which it is unmistakably established that Almighty God DOES INDEED have an everlasting covenant with Patriarch Ishma-El[God hears].

Genesis 16:12 is TOTALLY INCONGRUOUS in comparison with the following chapter 17 of the Book of Genesis regarding Patriarch Ishmael ben Abraham. It is clearly out of place and does not belong there at all…

Genesis 16:11-12 :

11And the Angel of the Lord continued, See now, you are with child and shall bear a son, and shall call his name Ishma-El [God hears], because the Lord has heard and paid attention to your affliction.

12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brothers.

The above verses offer further examples of CONFLICTING messages from the translators of the Judeo-Christian BIBLE...

If Lady Hagar[Hajira] is afflicted and Almighty God hears her affliction and sends the unnamed Angel of the Lord to appease and console her, what kind of a consolation is Verse 16:12 ???

A grieving surrogate spouse of Patriarch Abraham, who is to ensure him his progeny when his elderly and/or barren first wife cannot, presents Patriarch Abraham with a male heir but in return this heir will be a wild[donkey] of a man whose hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him ??

This does NOT make any sense...

Furthermore, the grief and affliction of Lady Hagar[Hajira] is answered by Almighty God with the upcoming birth of a son to her whose very name means God Hears[ishma-El] but he will be a wild[donkey] of a man whose hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him...

This makes even LESSER sense...

It is very difficult to even conceive that the compassionate and merciful Lord God would answer someone's affliction with such a virtual curse (for lack of a better descriptive word)...And then in the following chapter [Genesis 17] declare that He will BLESS this very same wild[donkey] of a man by multiplying him exceedingly, begetting him twelve princes, and making him a GREAT NATION.

Was it that the Biblical translators were trying to perpetuate the story and metaphor of Cain[Qabeel] and Abel[Habeel]--sons of Patriarch Adam--through Patriarch Abraham and his progeny ??

Genesis 16

Hagar and Ishmael

1 Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar;

2 so she said to Abram, "The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her." Abram agreed to what Sarai said.

3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived. When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress.

5 Then Sarai said to Abram, "You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my servant in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the LORD judge between you and me."

6 "Your servant is in your hands," Abram said. "Do with her whatever you think best." Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her.

7 The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur.

8 And he said, "Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?"

"I'm running away from my mistress Sarai," she answered.

9 Then the angel of the LORD told her, "Go back to your mistress and submit to her."

10 The angel added, "I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count."

11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:

"You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishma-El[God hears], for the LORD has heard of your misery.

12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;

his hand will be against everyone

and everyone's hand against him,

and he will live in hostility

toward all his brothers."

13 She gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: "You are the God who sees me," for she said, "I have now seen the One who sees me."

14 That is why the well was called Beer Lahai Roi; it is still there, between Kadesh and Bered.


Speaking of DISAGREEMENT...

Verses 1 & 2 establishes that Lady Sarah[sarai] is the one who instructed Patriarch Abraham to sleep with her maid Lady Hagar[Hajira]; furthermore, Lady Sarah PERSONALLY took her maid Lady Hagar[Hajira] and presented her to Patriarch Abraham so Lady Hagar[Hajira] could be his surrogate wife.

Then, according to the Biblical translators, Lady Sarah is despised by her maid Lady Hagar[Hajira] in Verse 4 because of the very purpose she was wedded to Patriarch Abraham in the first place : that Lady Hagar[Hajira] bear him an heir and build Lady Sarah's very own family through her.

In Verse 5, Lady Sarah then blames Lady Hagar[Hajira] for despising her !?

Do any of these verses make any sense whatsoever ???

There is no reason provided for Lady Hagar[Hajira] to begin to despise Lady Sarah[sarai]...

The question of Patriarch Isaac's covenant being accepted over Patriarch Ishmael hadn't even arisen and was still in the distant future...

There wasn't even the remotest concept that Lady Sarah[sarai] was going to miraculously bear an offspring to Patriarch Abraham in the distant future, consequently, there was no reason or rationale for Lady Hagar[Hajira] to begin despising Lady Sarah[sarai]...

Thus, the Biblical translators COULD NOT provide a reason or rationale in Verses 4 & 5 of Genesis 16 !

Even then, the verses in chapter 17, CLEARLY indicate that ALL of Patriarch Abraham's seed after him had an established covenant with Almighty God. NONE were excluded except those who rejected the covenantal rite of circumcision, and thus broke their covenant with Almighty God.

There is NOT A SINGLE verse in chapter 17 which explicitly states that Almighty God WILL NOT have a covenant with Patriarch Ishmael. ALL verses regarding the subject of God's covenant with Patriarch Abraham and his seed unmistakably indicate that Almighty God's everlasting covenant with patriarchs Abraham and Ishmael had been consecrated.

As for Verse 13, Lady Hagar[Hajira] is in conversation with the unnamed Angel of the Lord, and then SUDDENLY we are informed that Almighty Lord God Himself spoke to her !?

And in turn, Lady Hagar[Hajira] acknowledges this by declaring that God has seen her and that she has now seen the One who has seen her...???

So, which is it ??

Has God HEARD Lady Hagar[Hajira] or has God SEEN Lady Hagar[Hajira], and she in turn has SEEN God ???

And what happened to the unnamed Angel of the Lord ??

Where did he suddenly disappear to ??

Or was it figurative ?? She actually conversed with the unnamed Angel of the Lord but figuratively, it was a meeting with Almighty God Himself ??

I wonder what those Biblical translators were thinking when they transcribed all this...??

Quranic-Biblical comparisons :

Surah Hud; Ayats 69-73


Walaqad jaat rusuluna ibraheema bialbushra qaloo salaman qala salamun fama labitha an jaa biAAijlin haneethin

There came Our messengers to Abraham with glad tidings. They said, "Peace!" He answered, "Peace!" and hastened to entertain them with a roasted calf.


Falamma raa aydiyahum la tasilu ilayhi nakirahum waawjasa minhum kheefatan qaloo la takhaf inna orsilna ila qawmi lootin

But when he saw that their hands were not extended towards it, he deemed them strange and conceived fear of them. . They said: Fear not, surely we are sent to Lut's people.


Waimraatuhu qa-imatun fadahikat fabashsharnaha bi-ishaqa wamin wara-i ishaqa yaAAqooba

And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed: But we gave her glad tidings of Isaac, and after him, of Jacob.


Qalat ya waylata aalidu waana AAajoozun wahatha baAAlee shaykhan inna hatha lashay-on AAajeebun

She said: "Alas for me! shall I bear a child, seeing I am an old woman, and my husband here is an old man? That would indeed be a wonderful thing!"


Qaloo ataAAjabeena min amri Allahi rahmatu Allahi wabarakatuhu AAalaykum ahla albayti innahu hameedun majeedun

They said: "Dost thou wonder at Allah's decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, o ye people of the house! for He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of all glory!"

Genesis Chapter 18:1-15

The Three Visitors

1 The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day.

2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

3 He said, "If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by.

4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree.

5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant." "Very well," they answered, "do as you say."

6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. "Quick," he said, "get three seahs of fine flour and knead it and bake some bread."

7 Then he ran to the herd and selected a choice, tender calf and gave it to a servant, who hurried to prepare it.

8 He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree.

9 "Where is your wife Sarah?" they asked him. "There, in the tent," he said.

10 Then the LORD said, "I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son." Now Sarah was listening at the entrance to the tent, which was behind him.

11 Abraham and Sarah were already old and well advanced in years, and Sarah was past the age of childbearing.

12 So Sarah laughed to herself as she thought, "After I am worn out and my master is old, will I now have this pleasure?"

13 Then the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh and say, 'Will I really have a child, now that I am old?'

14 Is anything too hard for the LORD ? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son."

15 Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, "I did not laugh." But he said, "Yes, you did laugh."


From Verse 9 to Verse 10 in Genesis 18, again there is an inconsistency in that the Three Visitors [i.e. angelic messengers] are SUDDENLY inexplicably replaced with the very person of Almighty God...

No such confusion exists in the Quranic verses[ayats]...

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir...

Edited by Al-Afza

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A'arab (plural) = Inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula or Arabs (sedentary and/or nomadic).

Arabi (singular) = An inhabitant of the Arabian Peninsula or an Arab (sedentary or nomadic).

Arabi (singular) = Pertaining to an Arab or an inhabitant of the Arabian Peninsula.

Arabiyya (plural) = Pertaining to Arabs or inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula.

'Arabiyy (singular) = The Arabic language.

'Arab (singular) = An Arabic-speaker.

'Arabiyya (plural) = Arabic-speakers.

'Arabi (singular) = Pertaining to an Arabic-speaker.

'Arabiyya (plural) = Pertaining to Arabic-speakers.

*The appellation A'arab [alif/a+ayn/a+ra/r+alif/a+ba/b] specifically refers to Arabs or inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula (both sedentary and/or nomadic).

**The appellation 'Arab [ayn/a+ra/r+ba/b] specifically refers to an Arabic-speaker in general, which traditionally includes non-Arabs such as Egyptians; Lebanese; Syrians; Palestinians; Jordanians; Iraqis; Libyans; Tunisians; Algerians; and Moroccans. For example, in the United States of America, all U.S. born Euro-Caucasians are generally English-speakers, but they most certainly are not all Anglo-Americans or of English/British descent. The same goes for the indigenous & non-indigenous populations of Central & South America, even though most all of them are Spanish-speakers, they most certainly are not all Spaniards or of Spanish descent.



The history of the English language word Paradise (Paradis in French; Paradisus in Latin; Paradeisos in Greek) is thus: The Greek adaptation Paradeisos is from the Classical Arabic Firdaws.

There are other Greek-language adaptations of ancient Middle Eastern appellations that have also substituted the "P" sound for the "F" sound but have spelled it as "PH" :

The Greek appellation for Palestine being Philistia from the Sumerian Ermengir/Shumeru language Palusata; and the Akkadian language Palastu; as well as the Egyptian Old Hieratic language Peleset. Another example is the Greek adaptation Pharao [Pharaoh in English] from the Egyptian Hieratic language Per'o.

Edited by Al-Afza

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The Taurat was the first official Kitabullah[Book of The Divinity] of pure monotheism[tawhid]. The appellation Taurat is Old Hieratic meaning Law Text; it was singular. It was revealed to Nabih Musa[Moses] in the Old Hieratic language. The Zabur [Psalms] were NOT a kitab[book] but a collection of divinely inspired dua's or supplications which were revealed to Nabih Daud in the Eblaic language. The appellation Zabur is plural. The second official Kitabullah[Book of The Divinity] of pure monotheism[tawhid] was the Injil [Evangel] which was revealed to Nabih Isa; the appellation Injil was singular and literally meant 'Message' in Imperial Aramaic. The Greek derivatives were Euangelion [Good News] & Euangelos [Messenger of Good News]. In the Holy Qur'an, the word for the 'bringer of glad tidings' is Mubashshir. The Holy Qur'an also uses the words Rusul [Messengers] & Rasul [Messenger] to identify the Malaykah [Celestial Angels] as well the terrestrial messengers that were the prophets or announcers[anbiya]. In Greek, the word Angelos literally means 'Messenger', from which the English-language word 'Angel' was directly derived. In Latin, the derivative of the Greek Euangelion is Evangelium or Vangelium. The third and final official Kitabullah[Book of The Divinity] of pure monotheism[tawhid] is Al-Qur'an [The Recitation] revealed to Nabih Muhammad in Classical Arabic.

The Hebrew language & script was invented between 750-900 A.D. by the religious scholars named the Massorah, who were Judahite or Yahudi Palestinians of the coastal settlement of Tiberias, Palestine (named after Roman Emperor Tiberius). This language was directly derived from three distinct languages: Imperial Aramaic, Classical Arabic, and the Kaldu[Chaldean] dialect of Akkadu[Akkadian]. Hebrew was devised by the Massorah so the Judaic monotheist sect could have their very own distinct language & script. The very first complete text in the Hebrew language & script was the Tiberian Codex [Aleppo Codex] which was published in 916 A.D.; the Tiberian Codex was the complete Old Testament translated from the Greek-language Nicene Creed into Hebrew; the Nicene Creed was compiled in 325 A.D. The Tiberian or Aleppo Codex was not translated from the Greek Septuagint or Seventy, which was the Old Testament text of the Eastern or Greek Orthodox Church. Nor was it translated from the Latin Vulgate which itself was translated from the Greek-language Nicene Creed. The second oldest Hebrew language Old Testament manuscript was the Cairo Codex [Leningrad Codex] which was published in 1008 A.D. Both these complete copies of the Old Testament survive to the present day and are the first two Hebrew language texts of the Old Testament (named the Tanakh in Hebrew). That is precisely why the Hebrew language is so crucial to Judeo-Chrisitanity, because the oldest surviving complete texts of the Old Testament are in Hebrew and also happen to be the two earliest Hebrew language texts ever written.

There are no surviving copies of the Greek-language Nicene Creed or the Latin Vulgate that exist today. Forget about any contemporaneous texts of both the Nicene Creed or the Vulgate. Both the Nicene Creed and the Vulgate are lost to antiquity, maybe forever. The archaic claim that the Greek Septuagint [seventy] was documented at the royal decree of King Ptolemy of the Hellenic dynasty of Egypt in 285 B.C., just two years before his death in 283 B.C., has been impossible to verify simply because not a single contemporaneous copy of the Septuagint has survived to this day. The oldest surviving epigraphy of the Greek Septuagint are mere fragments which date to the reign of Byzantine(Eastern Roman) Emperor Justinian I (ruled 527-565 A.D.) and no earlier. However, these are barely fragments and far from being any kind of cohesive text. Claims of older surviving fragments are unfounded and have never been properly verified for authenticity. As it stands, the oldest surviving COMPLETE Bible of both the Old & New Testament is the John Wycliff version. According to Judeo-Christian tradition, John Wycliff(1324-1384) translated his Wycliff's Bible directly from the few surviving complete manuscripts of the Old & New Testaments from the Latin Vulgate; Wycliff translated it from Old Latin to vernacular English in 1382, while it was officially published in 1384, the year of his death. The first updated versions of Wycliff's original manuscript were published by the late Wycliff's assistant, John Purvey, in 1388 and 1395. Consequently, since there are NO surviving copies period of the Greek-language Nicene Creed and the Latin Vulgate, the sheer significance to Judeo-Christianity of the Hebrew language from the Hebraical texts of the Tiberian or Aleppo Codex & the Cairo or Leningrad Codex is staggering.

The Hebrew language & script is NOWHERE near as old as it is thought to be simply because it is a direct derivative of the three archaic languages: Imperial Aramaic; Classical Arabic; and the Kaldu[Chaldean] dialect of the Akkadu[Akkadian] language. The Massorah virtually copied the Imperial Aramaic script for Hebrew as is clearly evident in all language charts and graphs. Also, the nomenclature of the 12 months of the Hebrew Lunar Calendar is DIRECTLY COPIED from the nomenclature of the 12 calendar months of the Akkadians; Babylonians; Assyrians; and Chaldeans. There are a few colourful narratives in regards to the etymology of the appellation hebrew. The Talmudic-Rabbinical account has it as ivrit or ivri/ivrai (meaning 'one from across the river', referring to the sacred river Jordan); another is that it was derived from the Khurrite word hapiri (which means 'nomad') and adopted by the Phoenicians as hapiru and the Egyptians as apiru, with the same literal meaning of 'nomad'. In reality, the appellation hebrew is not geographical but social; it is a direct derivative of the Classical Arabic word hibr (literally meaning 'doctor of law') and whose plural is ahbar; while hibri means pertaining to the 'doctor of law'. Also, the plural appellation rabbani is the Classical Arabic noun for the Hebraic rabbis, and literally means 'priests' and is NOT derived from the word rabb (lord); rabbani is in specific reference to Judean/Judahite/Yahudi priests; the singular form of rabbani is actually ibrani (priest), which is frequently confused with meaning hebrew. Consequently, from a purely scientific (i.e. archaeological & epigraphical) position, the oldest surviving copy of the complete Classical Arabic Holy Qur'an, which dates to the handwritten Kufic text by Ali Bin Abu Talib of 660 A.D.(40 A.H.), remains the OLDEST monotheist doctrine which PREDATES any surviving Judeo-Christian manuscripts of the Tanakh or the Bible.

That is until the alleged Dead Sea Scrolls were accidentally "discovered" by a bedouin goat-herder in the caves of Wadi Qumran, Palestine in 1947; additional scrolls were "discovered" up until 1956. These alleged scrolls are in Greek, Imperial Aramaic, and Hebrew??? This "accidental" discovery echoes a truly remarkable earlier accidental discovery of the 52 Gnostic Codice from 1943-1945 in Nag Hammadi, Egypt by Mohammed Ali Samman. However, the Chrisitian Gnostic codice were HIGHLY ALARMING to Judeo-Christianity in that they archaeologically & epigraphically presented for the very first time, texts that were not only chronologically OLDER then the lost Nicene Creed and Vulgate, but which recorded many CONTRADICTORY & ALTERNATE narratives of established Judeo-Chrisitian traditions. The most THREATENING was the text of Simon of Cyrene being mistaken for Jesus Christ, and was consequently crucified in his place on the cross by the unsuspecting Romans. This narrative is also to be found in the Holy Qur'an, although the personage of Simon of Cyrene is not actually named. The Nag Hammadi Gnositc Codice were dated to the 3rd Century A.D. or a century BEFORE the compilation of the Nicene Creed and the even later Vulgate. The fact that the Dead Sea Scrolls received far more publicity than the earlier discovery of the Nag Hammadi Gnostic Codice in subsequent decades says a lot. Also, the fact that IF the Dead Sea Scrolls re-affirmed all the traditional Judeo-Christian scriptures found in the Hebrew Tanakh and Wycliff's Bible (with the exception of the Book of Esther, which was not part of the discovered scrolls), than why the near 50-year secrecy before their actual contents were released to the general public? If the total 900 documents of the Dead Sea Scrolls did re-confirm the traditional Biblical scriptures, than it should have taken the French Catholic scholar Roland de Vaux and his Catholic team no more than 5 years maximum to verify its contents before releasing it to the general public...Not decades! The Vatican and all the other Christian bodies & organizations should have been thrilled to the point of euphoria at the re-confirming discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Consequently, after verifying its alleged authenticity, the contents of the Dead Sea Scrolls should have been released to the public as quickly as possible, so they would reinforce the faith of the Judeo-Christian world. And not wait for nearly 50 years to do so...


Below are some copy-pastes regarding the Dead Sea Scrolls:

The Dead Sea Scrolls

Discovery of the Scrolls

The first of the Dead Sea Scroll discoveries occurred in 1947 in Qumran, a village situated about twenty miles east of Jerusalem on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea. A young Bedouin shepherd, following a goat that had gone astray, tossed a rock into one of the caves along the seacliffs and heard a cracking sound: the rock had hit a ceramic pot containing leather and papyrus scrolls that were later determined to be nearly twenty centuries old. Ten years and many searches later, eleven caves around the Dead Sea were found to contain tens of thousands of scroll fragments dating from the third century B.C. to A.D. 68 and representing an estimated eight hundred separate works. The Dead Sea Scrolls comprise a vast collection of Jewish documents written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, and encompassing many subjects and literary styles. They include manuscripts or fragments of every book in the Hebrew Bible except the Book of Esther, all of them created nearly one thousand years earlier than any previously known biblical manuscripts. The scrolls also contain the earliest existing biblical commentary, on the Book of Habakkuk, and many other writings, among them religious works pertaining to Jewish sects of the time.

The Controversy Begins

The shepherd who made the discovery at Qumran brought the seven intact scrolls he found there to an antique dealer. Three were sold to a scholar at Hebrew University and four were sold to the Archbishop of Syria, who tried for years to place them with a reputable academic institution and ultimately sold them in 1954 through a classified ad in The Wall Street Journal. The ad was answered by Israeli archaeologist Yigael Yadin, who donated these scrolls to the state of Israel and established a museum for them, The Shrine of the Book, at Hebrew University.

Control of the remaining tens of thousands of scroll fragments, however, was not soon resolved. One year after the discovery at Qumran, the United Nations partitioned Palestine and war began. Meanwhile, a U.N.-appointed, Jesuit-trained official had summoned Roland de Vaux, director of the Ecole Biblique, a French Catholic Theological School in Arab East Jerusalem, to oversee research on the scrolls. The slow pace of publication and the extreme secrecy of de Vaux's almost entirely Catholic group fueled the theory that the Vatican wished to suppress information in the scrolls.

Then, in 1967, Zionists seized East Jerusalem and the Israel Antiquities Authority took control of the scrolls. Access, however, was merely transferred to yet another small group that seemed determined to hide them from the rest of the world. Israeli officials told prominent visiting scholars that they “would not see the scrolls in [their] lifetimes.” The building media frenzy was furthered by the 1990 dismissal of the project's editor-in-chief, Harvard Divinity School professor Dr. John Strugnell, after he publicly criticized Judaism and the Israeli state. A breakthrough came in September 1990, when the Huntington Library in California made available unauthorized photographs of the scrolls. The following year, text and translations of fifty scrolls were published in book form.

Judaism, Christianity, and the Scrolls

The Dead Sea Scrolls offer unprecedented information about Jewish religious and political life in Palestine during the turbulent late Second Temple Period (200 B.C. to A.D. 70), a time of great corruption and conflict under Roman rule in Palestine. Scholars estimate that the Dead Sea Scrolls were hidden in A.D. 68, when Roman legions reached the Dead Sea during the emperor Vespasian's campaign to Jericho. The discovery of the scrolls established that Jewish culture was far richer and more diverse at this time than scholars had previously believed. Three main groups of Jews were prominent during the late Second Temple Period: the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Essenes. Many other sects and political parties also flourished. This pluralism ended in A.D. 70 when, six years after the start of the First Jewish Rebellion, the Romans sieged Jerusalem, killing or enslaving half the Jewish population and destroying Herod's Temple. The capitol fell to the Romans, and only the Judaism of the dominant Pharisees survived.

The scrolls also shed light on the time when Jesus and John the Baptist lived and early Christians began to organize. Specifically, they offer evidence that early Christian beliefs and practices had precedents in the Jewish sects of the time. Sectarian scrolls tell of people who, like the early Christians, did not believe in the Temple worship of the Pharisees, people who had their own literature, their own rituals—including baptism—and their own beliefs, most significantly beliefs in a messiah, a divine judgment, and an apocalypse. Three different scrolls depict a sacred meal of bread and wine. These similarities as well as parallels between the literary style of certain scrolls and that of the New Testament have led some scholars to claim that Jesus and John the Baptist were either part of or strongly influenced by a sect at the Dead Sea. But no direct link has been established, and it is likely that similarities can be attributed to each being derived from a like strain of Judaism. Still, this debate has furthered speculation about the historical Jesus, such as the claim that he was a Zealot rather than a pacifist, a theory that does not fit with New Testament tradition but does fit with the history of this period. And one of the most important discoveries in the scrolls has been the use of the name Son of God to refer to someone other than Jesus, implying a cultural use of the term that was not itself synonymous with God.

Who Hid the Scrolls?

Debate continues about who actually wrote, copied, and stored the scrolls. The most prevalent theory is that this was done by an ascetic group of Essenes who had retreated to the desert to await a Messiah, and who lived at Qumran in a community guided by the Manual of Discipline, or Community Rule, a scroll detailing the beliefs and practices of a messianic sect. In the 1950s, Roland de Vaux excavated a site between the Qumran caves and the Dead Sea that he claimed was a monastic library where Essenes had copied the scrolls. Recent archaeologists, however, think that what de Vaux believed to be the remains of desks and ink bottles are in fact remains of dining tables and perfume bottles, suggesting that the site was a Roman-style villa whose occupants were engaged in the lucrative perfume trade. Furthermore, not a single manuscript fragment has ever been found on this site. Some scholars believe that Sadducees lived at the Qumran site. Others believe that the scrolls were kept not by a religious sect but by a militant, nationalistic group, and that the Qumran site was in fact a fortress. It has been argued also that the people who lived at the Qumran site were not the same people who hid the scrolls in the caves. Still other scholars reject the idea that the scrolls can be identified with a single group, suggesting instead that the scrolls describe the beliefs and rituals of the many Jewish sects of the time. These scholars propose that the scrolls are copies of manuscripts from libraries throughout Jerusalem that Jews sought to preserve as the Romans encroached upon the capitol. One scroll, called the Copper Scroll, offers a detailed description of efforts to hide documents.

The Scrolls Today

More than fifty years after their discovery, no one can claim to know the absolute truth about the Dead Sea Scrolls, although academics and amateurs alike generate ever more intriguing theories, wild claims, and media attention. It is a complicating factor that almost all the scrolls are copies of other manuscripts—some perhaps historical, others certainly fictitious, and all together, transcribed over the course of nearly three hundred years. It will probably never be possible to know for sure what among the scrolls is fact, when exactly it was recorded, and why: their origins, scribes, keepers, and meanings will likely remain a mystery.

—Holly Hartman

Information Please® Database, © 2007 Pearson Education, Inc. All rights reserved.


Edited by Al-Afza

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The most curious item in the excruciatingly lengthy yet revealing copy-paste below, is that officially, the excavation of Cave 1 BEGAN from 15 Feb-5 March 1949 or AFTER the founding of the State of Israel in 1948 ! This also puts the entire, complicated story of Dr. John C. Trever of how the Dead Sea Scrolls were originally discovered into serious question...


Copy-pastes from Wikipedia; note the ELABORATE nature of the entire story behind the Dead Sea Scrolls:

The Dead Sea Scrolls are a collection of about 900 documents, including texts from the Hebrew Bible, discovered between 1947 and 1956 in eleven caves in and around the ruins of the ancient settlement of Khirbet Qumran on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea in the West Bank. The texts are of great religious and historical significance, as they include the oldest known surviving copies of Biblical and extra-biblical documents and preserve evidence of great diversity in late Second Temple Judaism. They are written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, mostly on parchment, but with some written on papyrus. These manuscripts generally date between 150 BCE and 70 CE. The scrolls are traditionally identified with the ancient Jewish sect called the Essenes, though some recent interpretations have challenged this association and argue that the scrolls were penned by priests in Jerusalem, Zadokites, or other unknown Jewish groups.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are traditionally divided into three groups: "Biblical" manuscripts (copies of texts from the Hebrew Bible), which comprise roughly 40% of the identified scrolls; "Apocryphal" or "Pseudepigraphical" manuscripts (known documents from the Second Temple Period like Enoch, Jubilees, Tobit, Sirach, non-canonical psalms, etc., that were not ultimately canonized in the Hebrew Bible), which comprise roughly 30% of the identified scrolls; and "Sectarian" manuscripts (previously unknown documents that speak to the rules and beliefs of a particular group or groups within greater Judaism) like the Community Rule, War Scroll, Pesher (Hebrew pesher פשר = "Commentary") on Habakkuk, and the Rule of the Blessing, which comprise roughly 30% of the identified scrolls.

The settlement of Qumran is one kilometer inland from the northwest shore of the Dead Sea. The scrolls were found in eleven caves nearby, between 125 meters (e.g., Cave 4) and one kilometer (e.g., Cave 1) away. None were found within the settlement, unless it originally encompassed the caves. In the winter of 1946–47, Palestinian Muhammed edh-Dhib and his cousin discovered the caves, and soon afterwards the scrolls.

John C. Trever reconstructed the story of the scrolls from several interviews with the Bedouin. edh-Dhib's cousin noticed the caves, but edh-Dhib himself was the first to actually fall into one. He retrieved a handful of scrolls, which Trever identifies as the Isaiah Scroll, Habakkuk Commentary, and the Community Rule (originally known as "Manual of Discipline"), and took them back to the camp to show to his family. None of the scrolls were destroyed in this process, despite popular rumor.[6] The Bedouin kept the scrolls hanging on a tent pole while they figured out what to do with them, periodically taking them out to show people. At some point during this time, the Community Rule was split in two.

The Bedouin first took the scrolls to a dealer named Ibrahim 'Ijha in Bethlehem. 'Ijha returned them, saying they were worthless, after being warned that they may have been stolen from a synagogue. Undaunted, the Bedouin went to a nearby market, where a Syrian Christian offered to buy them. A sheikh joined their conversation and suggested they take the scrolls to Khalil Eskander Shahin, "Kando", a cobbler and part-time antiques dealer. The Bedouin and the dealers returned to the site, leaving one scroll with Kando and selling three others to a dealer for £7 GBP ($29 in 2003 US dollars).[6]

Arrangements with the Bedouin left the scrolls in the hands of a third party until a profitable sale of them could be negotiated. That third party, George Isha'ya, was a member of the Syrian Orthodox Church, who soon contacted St. Mark's Monastery in the hope of getting an appraisal of the nature of the texts. News of the find then reached Metropolitan Athanasius Yeshue Samuel, better known as Mar Samuel.

After examining the scrolls and suspecting their antiquity, Mar Samuel expressed an interest in purchasing them. Four scrolls found their way into his hands: the now famous Isaiah Scroll (1QIsa), the Community Rule, the Habakkuk Pesher (a commentary on the book of Habakkuk), and the Genesis Apocryphon. More scrolls soon surfaced in the antiquities market, and Professor Eleazer Sukenik and Professor Benjamin Mazar, Israeli archaeologists at Hebrew University, soon found themselves in possession of three, The War Scroll, Thanksgiving Hymns, and another, more fragmented, Isaiah scroll.

By the end of 1947, Sukenik and Mazar received word of the scrolls in Mar Samuel's possession and attempted to purchase them. No deal was reached, and instead the scrolls caught the attention of Dr. John C. Trever, of the American Schools of Oriental Research (ASOR), who compared the script in the scrolls to that of The Nash Papyrus, the oldest biblical manuscript then known, and found similarities between them.

Dr. Trever, a keen amateur photographer, met with Mar Samuel on February 21, 1948, when he photographed the scrolls. The quality of his photographs often exceeded the visibility of the scrolls themselves over the years, as the ink of the texts quickly deteriorated after they were removed from their linen wrappings.

220px-DSS_ad.jpgmagnify-clip.pngAd for "Dead Sea Scrolls" in the Wall Street JournalThe scrolls were analyzed using a cyclotron at the University of California, Davis where it was found that the black ink used was iron-gall ink.[7] The red ink on the scrolls was cinnabar (HgS, mercury sulfide).[7]

In March, the 1948 Arab-Israeli War prompted the removal of the scrolls for safekeeping, from Israel to Beirut, Lebanon.

Early in September, 1948, Mar brought Professor Ovid R. Sellers, the new Director of ASOR, some additional scroll fragments that he had acquired. By the end of 1948, nearly two years after their discovery, scholars had yet to locate the cave where the fragments had been found. With unrest in the country at that time, no large-scale search could be undertaken. Sellers attempted to get the Syrians to help him locate the cave, but they demanded more money than he could offer. Finally, Cave 1 was discovered, on January 28, 1949, by a United Nations observer.

The Dead Sea Scrolls went up for sale eventually, in an advertisement in the June 1, 1954 Wall Street Journal.

On July 1, the scrolls, after delicate negotiations and accompanied by three people including the Metropolitan, arrived at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York. They were purchased by Prof. Mazar and the son of Prof. Sukenik, Yigael Yadin, for US$250,000 and brought back to East Jerusalem, where they were on display at the Palestine Archaeological Museum then, after the Six-Day War, to West Jerusalem at the Shrine of the Book.

Survey of the Caves

The caves surrounding Qumran are numbered based upon the order of their discovery and their production of scrolls and scroll fragments. Thus, caves 7-9 and 4 are very close to the settlement at Qumran, while caves 1, 3, and 11 are farther away. Likewise, there are hundreds of other caves surrounding Qumran discovered both before and after the 11 scroll caves that did not produce scrolls and are therefore not numbered as scroll caves. Below is a summary of each of the Qumran Caves:

Cave 1

Cave 1 was discovered in the winter or spring of 1947. It was first excavated by Gerald Lankester Harding and Roland de Vaux from Feb 15 to Mar 5, 1949. In addition to the original seven scrolls, Cave 1 produced jars and bowls, whose chemical composition and shape matched vessels discovered at the settlement at Qumran, pieces of cloth, and additional fragments that matched portions of the original scrolls, thereby confirming that the original scrolls came from Cave 1.

The original seven scrolls from Cave 1 are:

Cave 2

Cave two was discovered in February, 1952.[10] It yielded 300 fragments from 33 manuscripts, including Jubilees and the Book of Sirach in the original Hebrew.

Cave 3

Cave three was discovered on March 14, 1952.[10] The cave yielded 14 manuscripts including Jubilees and the curious Copper Scroll, which lists 67 hiding places, mostly underground, throughout the ancient Roman province of Judea (now Israel). According to the scroll, the secret caches held astonishing amounts of gold, silver, copper, aromatics, and manuscripts.

Cave 4

Cave four was discovered in August, 1952, and was excavated from September 22 to 29, 1952 by Gerald Lankester Harding, Roland de Vaux, and Józef Milik.[11] Cave four is actually two, hand-cut caves (4a and 4b), but since the fragments were mixed, they are labeled as 4Q. Cave 4 is the most famous of Qumran caves both because of its visibility from the Qumran plateau and its productivity. It is visible from the plateau to the south of the Qumran settlement. It is by far the most productive of all Qumran caves, producing ninety percent of the Dead Sea Scrolls and scroll fragments (approx. 15,000 fragments from 500 different texts), including 9-10 copies of Jubilees, along with 21 tefillin and 7 mezuzot.

Caves 5 and 6

Caves 5 and 6 were discovered in 1952, shortly after Cave 4. Cave 5 produced approximately 25 manuscripts, while Cave 6 contained fragments of about 31 manuscripts.[11]

Caves 7–9

Caves 7-9 are unique in that they are the only caves that are accessible only by passing through the settlement at Qumran. Carved into the southern end of the Qumran plateau, archaeologists excavated caves 7-9 in 1957, but did not find many fragments perhaps due to high levels of erosion that left only the shallow bottoms of the caves.

Cave 7 yielded fewer than 20 fragments of Greek documents, including 7Q2 (the "Letter of Jeremiah" = Baruch 6), 7Q5 (which became the subject of much speculation in later decades), and a Greek copy of a scroll of Enoch.[12][13][14] Cave 7 also produced several inscribed potsherds and jars.[15]

Cave 8 produced five fragments: Genesis (8QGen), Psalms (8QPs), a tefillin fragment (8QPhyl), a mezuzah (8QMez), and a hymn (8QHymn).[16] Cave 8 also produced several tefillin cases, a box of leather objects, lamps, jars, and the sole of a leather shoe.[15]

Cave 9 produced only small, unidentifiable fragments.

Caves 8 and 9 also yielded several date pits[15] similar to those discovered by Magen and Peleg to the west of Locus 75 during their "Operation Scroll" excavations.[17][18]

Cave 10

Cave 10 produced only a single ostracon with some writing on it.

Cave 11

Cave 11 was discovered in 1956 and yielded 21 texts, some of which were quite lengthy. The Temple Scroll, so called because more than half of it pertains to the construction of the Temple of Jerusalem, was found in Cave 11, and is by far the longest scroll. It is now 26.7 feet (8.15m) long. Its original length may have been over 28 feet (8.75m). The Temple Scroll was regarded by Yigael Yadin as "The Torah According to the Essenes." On the other hand, Hartmut Stegemann, a contemporary and friend of Yadin, believed the scroll was not to be regarded as such, but was a document without exceptional significance. Stegemann notes that it is not mentioned or cited in any known Essene writing.[19]

Also in Cave 11, an escatological fragment about the biblical figure Melchizedek (11Q13) was found. Cave 11 also produced a copy of Jubilees.

According to former chief editor of the DSS editorial team, John Strugnell, there are at least four privately owned scrolls from Cave 11, that have not yet been made available for scholars. Among them is a complete Aramaic manuscript of the Book of Enoch.[20]

Survey of Scrolls

While many of the Dead Sea Scrolls are small fragments of Biblical, apocryphal, or sectarian manuscripts, some of the scrolls have come to be well known and influential to Third Temple (Herod's Temple) Judaism. The following is a list of the Dead Sea Scrolls from the caves near Qumran:

Scrolls from Cave 1

Scrolls from Cave 2

Scrolls from Cave 3

  • 3QEzek ("Ezekiel" 16:31-33) = 3Q1
  • 3QPs ("Psalms" 2:6-7) = 3Q2
  • 3QLam ("Lamentations") = 3Q3
  • 3QpIsa ("Pesher on Isaiah") = 3Q4
  • 3QJub ("Jubilees") = 3Q5
  • 3QHymn (an unidentified hymn) = 3Q6
  • 3QTJudah? ("Testament of Judah"?) = 3Q7 cf. 4Q484, 4Q538
  • 3Q8 (fragment of an unidentified text)
  • 3Q9 (possible unidentified sectarian text)
  • 3Q10-11 (unclassified fragments)
  • 3Q12-13 (unclassified Aramaic fragments)
  • 3Q14 (unclassified fragments)
  • 3QCopper Scroll ("The Copper Scroll") = 3Q15

Scrolls from Cave 4

Scrolls from Cave 5

  • 5QDeut ("Deuteronomy") = 5Q1
  • 5QKgs ("1 Kings") = 5Q2
  • 5QIsa ("Isaiah") = 5Q3
  • 5QAmos ("Amos") = 5Q4
  • 5QPs ("Psalms") = 5Q5
  • 5QLama ("Lamentations") = 5Q6
  • 5QLamb ("Lamentations") = 5Q7
  • 5QPhyl (3 fragments from a "Phylactery") = 5Q8
  • 5QapJosh ("Apocryphon of Joshua") = 5Q9
  • 5Q10 Apocryphon of Malachi
  • 5Q11 Rule of the Community
  • 5Q12 Damascus Document
  • 5Q13 Rule
  • 5Q14 Curses
  • 5Q15 New Jerusalem
  • 5Q16-25 unclassified
  • 5QX1 Leather fragment

Scrolls from Cave 6

  • 6QpaleoGen (section of "Genesis" 6:13-21 written in palaeo-Hebrew script) = 6Q1
  • 6QpaleoLev (section of "Leviticus" 8:12-13 written in palaeo-Hebrew script) = 6Q2
  • 6Q3 Deuteronomy
  • 6Q4 Kings
  • 6QCant ("Canticles" or "Song of Songs") = 6Q6
  • 6Q7 Daniel
  • 6QpapEnGiants ("Book of Giants" from "Enoch") = 6Q8
  • 6Qpap apSam-Kgs ("Apocryphon on Samuel-Kings") = 6Q9
  • 6QpapProph (an unidentified prophetic fragment) = 6Q10
  • 6Q11 ("Allegory of the Vine")
  • 6QapocProph (an apocryphal prophecy) = 6Q12
  • 6QPriestProph ("Priestly Prophecy") = 6Q13
  • 6QD ("Damascus Document") = 6Q15
  • 6QpapBened ("Benediction") = 6Q16
  • 6Q17 Calendrical Document
  • 6Q18 Hymn
  • 6Q19 Genesis
  • 6Q20 Deuteronomy
  • 6Q21 Prophetic text?
  • 6Q22-6QX2 Unclassified

Scrolls from Cave 7

Scrolls from Cave 8

  • 8QGen ("Genesis") = 8Q1
  • 8QPs ("Psalms") = 8Q2
  • 8QPhyl (fragments from a "Phylactery") = 8Q3
  • 8QMez (portion of "Deuteronomy" 10:12-11:21 from a Mezuzah) = 8Q4
  • 8QHymn (a previously unidentified hymn) = 8Q5
  • 8QX1 Tabs
  • 8QX2-3 Thongs

Scrolls from Cave 9

  • 9Qpap (unidentified fragment)

Scrolls from Cave 10
  • 10Q1 ostracon

Scrolls from Cave 11

Significance to the Canon of the Bible

The significance of the scrolls relates in a large part to the field of textual criticism and how accurately the Bible has been transcribed over time. Before the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the oldest Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible were Masoretic texts dating to 10th century CE such as the Aleppo Codex. The biblical manuscripts found among the Dead Sea Scrolls push that date back a millennium to the 2nd century BCE. Before this discovery, the earliest extant manuscripts of the Old Testament were in Greek in manuscripts such as Codex Vaticanus Graecus 1209 and Codex Sinaiticus.

According to The Oxford Companion to Archaeology:

The biblical manuscripts from Qumran, which include at least fragments from every book of the Old Testament, except perhaps for the Book of Esther, provide a far older cross section of scriptural tradition than that available to scholars before. While some of the Qumran biblical manuscripts are nearly identical to the Masoretic, or traditional, Hebrew text of the Old Testament, some manuscripts of the books of Exodus and Samuel found in Cave Four exhibit dramatic differences in both language and content. In their astonishing range of textual variants, the Qumran biblical discoveries have prompted scholars to reconsider the once-accepted theories of the development of the modern biblical text from only three manuscript families: of the Masoretic text, of the Hebrew original of the Septuagint, and of the Samaritan Pentateuch. It is now becoming increasingly clear that the Old Testament scripture was extremely fluid until its canonization around A.D. 100.[21]

About 35% of the DSS biblical manuscripts belong to the Masoretic tradition (MT), 5% to the Septuagint family, and 5% to the Samaritan, with the remainder unaligned. The non-aligned fall into two categories, those inconsistent in agreeing with other known types, and those that diverge significantly from all other known readings. The DSS thus form a significant witness to the mutability of biblical texts at this period.[22] The sectarian texts among the Dead Sea Scrolls, most of which were previously unknown, offer new light on one form of Judaism practiced during the Third/Herod Temple period.

Frequency of books found

Books Ranked According to Number of Manuscripts found (top 16)

Bookssort_none.gifNo. foundsort_none.gifPsalms39Deuteronomy331 Enoch25Genesis24Isaiah22Jubilees21Exodus18 Leviticus17Numbers11Minor Prophets10Daniel8Jeremiah6Ezekiel6Job61 & 2 Samuel4

Origin of the Scrolls

There has been much debate about the origin of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The dominant theory remains that the scrolls were the product of a sect of Jews living at nearby Qumran called the Essenes, but this theory has come to be challenged by several modern scholars. The various theories concerning the origin of the scrolls are as follows:

Qumran-Essene Theory

The prevalent view among scholars, almost universally held until the 1990s, is the "Qumran-Essene" hypothesis originally posited by Roland Guérin de Vaux[24] and Józef Tadeusz Milik,[25] though independently both Eliezer Sukenik and Butrus Sowmy of St Mark's Monastery connected scrolls with the Essenes well before any excavations at Qumran.[26] The Qumran-Essene theory holds that the scrolls were written by the Essenes, or perhaps by another Jewish sectarian group, residing at Khirbet Qumran. They composed the scrolls and ultimately hid them in the nearby caves during the Jewish Revolt sometime between 66 and 68 AD. The site of Qumran was destroyed and the scrolls were never recovered by those that placed them there. A number of arguments are used to support this theory.

  • There are striking similarities between the description of an initiation ceremony of new members in the Community Rule and descriptions of the Essene initiation ceremony mentioned in the works of Flavius Josephus' (a Jewish-Roman historian of the time) account of the Second Temple Period.
  • Josephus mentions the Essenes as sharing property among the members of the community, as does the Community Rule.
  • During the excavation of Khirbet Qumran, two inkwells and plastered elements thought to be tables were found, offering evidence that some form of writing was done there. More inkwells were discovered in nearby loci. De Vaux called this area the "scriptorium" based upon this discovery.
  • Several Jewish ritual baths (Hebrew: miqvah = מקוה) were discovered at Qumran, which offers evidence of an observant Jewish presence at the site.
  • Pliny the Elder (a geographer writing after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD) describes a group of Essenes living in a desert community on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea near the ruined town of 'Ein Gedi.

The Qumran-Essene theory has been the dominant theory since its initial proposal by Roland de Vaux and J.T. Milik. Recently, however, several other scholars have proposed alternative origins of the scrolls.

Qumran-Sectarian Theory

Qumran-Sectarian theories are variations on the Qumran-Essene theory. The main point of departure from the Qumran-Essene theory is hesitation to link the Dead sea Scrolls specifically with the Essenes. Most proponents of the Qumran-Sectarian theory understand a group of Jews living in or near Qumran to be responsible for the Dead Sea Scrolls, but do not necessarily conclude that the sectarians are Essenes.

Qumran-Sadducean Theory

A specific variation on the Qumran-Sectarian theory that has gained much recent popularity, is the work of Lawrence H. Schiffman who proposes that the community was led by a group of Zadokite priests (Sadducees). The most important document in support of this view is the "Miqsat Ma'ase Ha-Torah" (4QMMT), which cites purity laws (such as the transfer of impurities) identical to those attributed in rabbinic writings to the Sadducees. 4QMMT also reproduces a festival calendar that follows Sadducee principles for the dating of certain festival days.

Christian Origin Theory

While there are certainly some common characteristics shared between different Jewish sectarian groups, most scholars deny that there is any connection between the Christians and the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Still, Spanish Jesuit Josep O'Callaghan-Martínez has argued that one fragment (7Q5) preserves a portion of text from the New Testament Gospel of Mark 6:52-53.[28] In recent years, Robert Eisenman has advanced the theory that some scrolls actually describe the early Christian community. Eisenman also attempted to relate the career of James the Just and the Apostle Paul / Saul of Tarsus to some of these documents.

Jerusalem Origin Theory

Some scholars have argued that the scrolls were the product of Jews living in Jerusalem, who hid the scrolls in the caves near Qumran while fleeing from the Romans during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Karl Heinrich Rengstorf first proposed that the Dead Sea Scrolls originated at the library of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.[30] Later, Norman Golb suggested that the scrolls were the product of multiple libraries in Jerusalem, and not necessarily the Jerusalem Temple library.[4][31] Proponents of the Jerusalem Origin theory point to the diversity of thought and handwriting among the scrolls as evidence against a Qumran origin of the scrolls. Several archaeologists have also accepted an origin of the scrolls other than Qumran, including Yizhar Hirschfeld[32] and most recently Yizhak Magen and Yuval Peleg,[33] who all understand the remains of Qumran to be those of a Hasmonean fort that was reused during later periods.


Some of the documents were published early. All the writings in Cave 1 appeared in print between 1950 and 1956, those from eight other caves were released in 1963, and 1965 saw the publication of the Psalms Scroll from Cave 11. Their translations into English soon followed.

Although heralded as one of the great events in modern archaeology, the discovery of the scrolls is not without controversy. All the manuscripts were initially placed under the oversight of a committee of scholars appointed by the Jordanian Department of Antiquities. This responsibility was assumed by the Israel Antiquities Authority after 1967.[34]

Prior to 1968, most of the known scrolls and fragments were housed in the Rockefeller Museum (formerly known as the Palestine Archaeological Museum) in Jerusalem. After the Six Day War, these scrolls and fragments were moved to the Shrine of the Book, at the Israel Museum.

Publication of the scrolls has taken many decades, and the delay has been a source of academic controversy. As of 2007 two volumes remain to be completed, with the whole series, Discoveries in the Judean Desert, running to thirty-nine volumes in total. Many of the scrolls are now housed in the Shrine of the Book in Jerusalem, while others are housed in the University of Chicago's Oriental Institute, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Princeton Theological Seminary, Azusa Pacific University (all of which are located in the U.S.A.), and in the hands of private collectors.

Most of the longer, more complete scrolls were published soon after their discovery. The majority of the scrolls, however, consists of tiny, brittle fragments, which were published at a pace considered by many to be excessively slow. Even more unsettling for some was the fact that access to the unpublished documents was severely limited to the editorial committee. In 1991, researchers at Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati, Ohio, announced the creation of a computer program that used previously published scrolls to reconstruct the unpublished texts. Officials at the Huntington Library in San Marino, California, announced that they would allow researchers unrestricted access to the library's complete set of photographs of the scrolls. With their monopoly broken, the officials of the Israel Antiquities Authority agreed to lift their long-standing restrictions on the use of the scrolls.[34]

Ben Zion Wacholder's publication in the fall of 1991 of reconstructed 17 documents from a concordance that had been made in 1988 and had come into the hands of scholars outside of the International Team; in the same month, there occurred the discovery and publication of a complete set of facsimiles of the Cave 4 materials at the Huntington Library, which were not covered by the "secrecy rule".

After further delays, public interest attorney William John Cox undertook representation of an "undisclosed client," who had provided a complete set of the unpublished photographs, and contracted for their publication. Professors Robert Eisenman and James Robinson indexed the photographs and wrote an introduction to A Facsimile Edition of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which was published by the Biblical Archaeology Society in 1991.[35] As a result, the "secrecy rule" was lifted.

Following the publication of the Facsimile Edition, Professor Elisha Qimron sued Hershel Shanks, Eisenman, Robinson and the Biblical Archaeology Society for copyright infringement of one of the scrolls, which he deciphered (MMT). The District Court of Jerusalem found in favor of Qimron in September 1993.[36] The Court issued a restraining order, which prohibited the publication of the deciphered text, and ordered defendants to pay Qimron NIS 100,000 for infringing his copyright and the right of attribution. Defendants appealed the Supreme Court of Israel, which approved the District Court's decision, in August 2000. The Supreme Court further ordered that the defendants hand over to Qimron all the infringing copied.[37] The decision met Israeli and international criticism from copyright law scholars. [38]

Publication accelerated with the appointment of the respected Dutch-Israeli textual scholar Emanuel Tov as editor-in-chief in 1990. Publication of the Cave 4 documents soon commenced, with five volumes in print by 1995. As of March 2009 volume XXXII remains to be completed, with the whole series, Discoveries in the Judean Desert, running to thirty nine volumes in total.

In December 2007, the Dead Sea Scrolls Foundation commissioned London publisher Facsimile Editions to publish exact facsimiles [39] of three scrolls,[40] The Great Isaiah Scroll (1QIsa), The Order of the Community (1QS), and The Pesher to Habakkuk (1QpHab). Of the first three facsimile sets, one was exhibited at the Early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibition in Seoul, South Korea, and a second set was purchased by the British Library in London. A further 25 sets including facsimiles of fragments 4Q175 (Testimonia), 4Q162 (Pesher Isaiahb) and 4Q109 (Qohelet) were announced in May 2009.

Digital copies

High-resolution images of all the Dead Sea scrolls are now available online, and can easily be found with a Web search. They can also be purchased in inexpensive multi-volumes - on disc media or in book form - or viewed in certain college and university libraries.

According to Computer Weekly (16th Nov 2007), a team from King's College London is to advise the Israel Antiquities Authority, who are planning to digitize the scrolls. On 27th Aug 2008 an Israeli internet news agency YNET announced that the project is under way.[41] The scrolls are planned to be made available to the public via Internet. The project is to include infra-red scanning of the scrolls which is said to expose additional details not revealed under visible light.

The text of nearly all of the non-biblical scrolls has been recorded and tagged for morphology by Dr. Martin Abegg, Jr., the Ben Zion Wacholder Professor of Dead Sea Scroll Studies at Trinity Western University in Langley, BC, Canada. It is available on handheld devices through Olive Tree Bible Software - BibleReader, on Macs through Accordance, and on Windows through Logos Bible Software and BibleWorks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------

Edited by Al-Afza

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Aside from the very first Hebrew language (complete) written texts of the Old Testament--the Tiberian/Aleppo Codex of 916 A.D. and the Cairo/Leningrad Codex of 1008 A.D.--there are the TWO Greek language codice of the Septuagint or LXX [seventy]: Codex Vaticanus & Codex Sinaiticus. For centuries, Judeo-Christian scholars have dated them to approximately circa 325-350 A.D. [for the Vaticanus] and circa 330-360 A.D. [for the Sinaiticus].

However, with recent technological advancements in paleography, neither the Vaticanus, nor the Sinaiticus are nearly as old as the traditional timelines transcribed to them. In taking the Codex Vaticanus as an example, below is a Wikipedic copy-paste which raises this issue:

It has been postulated that at one time the manuscript was in the possession of Cardinal Bessarion because the minuscule supplement has a text similar to one of Bessarion's manuscripts. According to Paul Canart's introduction to the recent facsimile edition, (p. 5), the decorative initials added to the manuscript in the Middle Ages are reminiscent of Constantinopolitan decoration of the 10th century, but the poor execution gives the impression they were added in the 11th or 12th century.

Edited by Al-Afza

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A point of note regarding the Quraysh or Settlers of Becca Valley in the Hejaz. They began as gnostic monotheists known as the Hunafa(Righteous) but gradually mutated to being monolatrists, then henotheists, and finally crossing over to becoming full-fledged polytheists. By the time of Prophet Muhammad's birth in 570 A.D., there wasn't even a single Quraysh subtribe that was Hunafa(Righteous), including the Banu Fahr. However, there were only two family clans of the Fahri subtribe that were still henotheist: the Hashimites and the al-Muttalib.

The orthodox standard Islamic historical position is that Prophet Muhammad was a monolatrist until he was informed of being a messenger(rasul) & announcer(nabih) of monotheism(tawhid) by the Archangel of Revelations, Al-Jibril. The word monolatry [Greek-monos=single+latreia=worship] was said to have been coined by Biblical scholar & Orientalist Julius Wellhausen, while philologist, Indologist, & Orientalist, Friedrich Max Muller coined the word henotheism [Greek-heno=one+theos=god].

--henotheism = the belief in only one god, while accepting that other gods do exist for other peoples, cultures, and nations; not denying other gods, while personally believing in only one god.

--monolatry = the belief that only one god is worthy of worship, while acknowledging that other gods could possibly exist for other peoples, cultures, and nations, even though belief in only one god would be preferrable for all.

--monotheism = the belief in only one god who alone is worthy of worship, while not accepting or acknowledging any other god of any people, culture, or nation simply because the one god is everyone's god, whether he is worshipped; denied; neither confirmed nor denied; or acknowledged but not formally worshipped.

*henotheism & monolatry are conditional forms of monotheism, whereas pure monotheism is unconditional.

The shahada or testimony of Islamic(Submissive) monotheism La il-Laha il-al-Lah (There is no Divinity but the Divinity) is the confirmation of true monotheism. It unmistakably transcends henotheism & monolatry and enters the realm of pure monotheism.

Whereas The First Commandment reads:

  • And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.* (Exodus 20:1-3)

    • Some theological scholars have interpreted this to be more of a monolatrist declaration rather than one declaring true monotheism.

Edited by Al-Afza

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[copy-pasted article by Wayne Blank]

Abraham Wasn't A Jew

Abraham is one of the best-known people of the Bible. He's a key figure in the history of both the Jewish and Arab people. He was the great-grandfather of Judah, whose descendants became known as the Jews, and he was also the father of Ishmael, from whom many of the Arab people are descended. Abraham was a Hebrew, and although the ancestor of both, Abraham himself was neither Jew nor Arab. From the Scriptural genealogical record comes some of the most well-known terms relating to Israelite people: Semite and Semitic originate from Noah's son Shem, and Hebrew is derived from Eber, the ancestor of Abraham. According to Bible History:

"The Sons Of Noah: Shem, Ham and Japheth...The sons of Shem: Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud and Aram. The sons of Aram: Uz, Hul, Gether and Meshech. Arphaxad was the father of Shelah, and Shelah the father of Eber. Two sons were born to Eber: One was named Peleg, because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan. Joktan was the father of Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, Obal, Abimael, Sheba, Ophir, Havilah and Jobab. All these were sons of Joktan. Shem, Arphaxad, Shelah, Eber, Peleg, Reu, Serug, Nahor, Terah and Abram (that is, Abraham). The sons of Abraham: Isaac and Ishmael." (1 Chronicles 1:4,17-28)

From two other people come two other very well-known identities: Israelites are the descendants of Isaac's son Jacob, who God renamed Israel, and from Jacob's son Judah come the terms Jew and Jewish.

So how do all of these designations relate to the people involved?

· The term Shemite is derived from Noah's son Shem.

· The term Hebrew is derived from Shem's descendant Eber. Eber was a Shemite, and the first Hebrew, but not an Israelite or a Jew because neither existed yet.

· Abraham was Eber's descendant. Abraham was a Shemite and a Hebrew, but not an Israelite or a Jew because neither existed yet.

· Isaac was Abraham's son. Isaac was a Shemite and a Hebrew, but not an Israelite or a Jew because neither existed yet.

· Jacob, who God renamed Israel, was Isaac's son. Jacob was a Shemite and a Hebrew, but not a Jew because Jews originated with his son Judah. The first Israelites were the children of Jacob.

· Judah was one of Jacob's twelve sons (see Children of Jacob and The Tribes Of Israel). Judah was a Shemite, a Hebrew, and an Israelite. The first Jews were the children of Judah. The descendants of the other eleven of Jacob's sons were not Jews, but were themselves named accordingly e.g. from Levi came the Levites, from Benjamin came the Benjamites and so on.

A vitally important fact in understanding Bible Prophecy is that while all Jews are Israelites, not all Israelites are Jews. All are Hebrews, but only the descendants of Judah are Jews. Many prophecies apply specifically to the Jewish people of today, while other prophecies apply specifically to the descendants of the other so-called "lost" tribes of Israel (see Can You Spot The Mistake?)

[end of copy-paste]


This above article found on the internet raises some very interesting points regarding the concept and ideology of what is defined as Israelite, Jew, or Hebrew...

Nabih Ibrahim[Abraham] from Western, Biblical tradition was held to be from Ur of the Chaldees in Southern Iraq[Mesopotamia]. However, Saracen[Eastern], Islamic tradition upholds him to be Syrian born in the once ancient Syrian settlement of Urfa; a settlement which dates as far back as circa 9000 B.C. and being as old a city as Jericho[Yareah], Palestine. Today, Urfa falls in modern-day Turkey (Anatolia). However, even today, Urfa's cultural atmosphere feels more Syrian than Turkish.

The appellation hebrew has several theories of its origin:

1-It was derived from ivri or across the River Jordan.

2-It was derived from the city of Hebron.

3-It was derived from the Old Hieratic or ancient Egyptian language word ibrw for horse.

4-It was NOT an ethnic identification but a social one from the Hurrian and Egyptian word for nomad or wanderer which was Apiru [Egyptian] or Hapiru [Hurrian].

5-It was NOT an ethnic but rather a geographic identification because his family hailed from Khabur[Hubur] River Valley in Syria, bordering Anatolia (Turkey); hence, Ibrahim al-Huburi or Abraham the Hebrew.

6-It was a SOCIAL identification as he was a Doctor of Law or Al-Hibri.

Edited by Al-Afza

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What is curious about the the concept or ideology of what classifies a "Jew" in Rabbinical Judaism...That one's mother must be born Jewish for the Jewish genealogy to be legitimate. However, historical tradition of ancient Middle Eastern monotheists has always upheld that the ethnic identity is determined by the father, NOT the mother. For example, the offspring were known by the names of their fathers and NOT their mothers: Isaac Ben Abraham; Jacob Ben Isaac; Solomon Ben David; etc., etc.

Even in the Bible, those who begat their progeny were ALL males or fathers, NOT females or mothers. Patriarch Abraham's covenant with Almighty God was through his SONS, not his DAUGHTERS.

Consequently, Jesus, Son of Mary was NOT accepted as the long-awaited Messiah of the House of David because his biological father was UNKNOWN. The long-held monotheist tradition of either the Jews; the Israelites; the Hebrews; etc., was that the Expected One or Messiah would be from the House of David. However, in order for that to occur, the biological father of Jesus HAD to be of the House of David...But since Jesus was born WITHOUT a biological father, the Middle Eastern monotheists did not ACCEPT him as the long-awaited Messiah. They NEVER believed in the miraculous birth of Jesus. Instead, they believed that Mother Mary had [Audhubillah] committed adultery !

That was the original basis for the schism of Middle Eastern monotheism which consequenty became Judaism and Christianity.

Even in the Holy Qur'an, it is clearly stated that the sons should be known by the names of their fathers...

All this further leads us to ask the question: Who exactly are The Chosen Ones ?

--The Hebrews [which technically includes ALL Ishmaelites] ?

--The Israelites ?

--The Levites ?

--The Benjamites ?

--The Judahites or Jews ?

Edited by Al-Afza

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The indigenous Madyani[Midianites] were an ancient people. They were NOT Ishmaelites, but even older. The appellation of Madyan[Midian] was a geographic one and not one of an ancestor. Nabih Ishaq[isaac] settled down East of An Nahr Al Urdoni (The River Jordan) in Urdunn[Jordan], whereas his elder half-brother Nabih Ismail[ishmael] settled in Madyan[Midian], NW Arabia.

Nabih Ismail had 12 sons, the eldest of whom was Nabat, the progenitor of Al-Anbat (The Nabataeans). A few of the Anbat (Nabataean) subtribes migrated to Southern Urdunn[Jordan] to live in closer proximity to their nearest of kin--the progeny of Nabih Ishaq[isaac]. Meanwhile, the progeny of the remaining 11 sons of Nabih Ismail[ishmael] settled within the Hejaz, West Arabia.

Much later in history, a tiny band of migrants of Al-Anbat (The Nabataeans) settled within the uninhabited Valley of Bekka[Mecca] in the Hejaz, West Arabia. This valley housed the ancient, solitary Sacred House of Worship of the One True Invisible God built by Grand Shaykh Ibrahim[Patriarch Abraham] and his older son Nabih Ismail[ishmael]. This tiny band of migrants were initially known as Al-Quraysh (The Settlers), but later came to be known as The Meccans.

Contrary to orthodox Muslim genealogy of Nabih Muhammad, the Last Prophet was not a direct biological descendant of Shaykh Haydar[Kedar], the 3rd of 12 sons of Nabih Ismail[ishmael] and a younger brother of Shaykh Nabat[Nabaioth]. Nabih Muhammad was the direct biological descendant of Shaykh Nabat Bin Ismail[Nabaioth Ben Ishmael].

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Contrary to orthodox Muslim genealogy of Nabih Muhammad, the Last Prophet was not a direct biological descendant of Shaykh Haydar[Kedar], the 3rd of 12 sons of Nabih Ismail[ishmael] and a younger brother of Shaykh Nabat[Nabaioth]. Nabih Muhammad was the direct biological descendant of Shaykh Nabat Bin Ismail[Nabaioth Ben Ishmael].

Any proof for this?

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Any proof for this?


Common sense.

Here is a copy-paste of the Orthodox Muslim scholarship's Prophet Muhammad-genealogy:

Abdullah, son of Abd Al Muttalib, the son of Hashim, son of Abd Manaf, son of Ksay, son of Kilab, son of Murrah, son of Ka'b, son of Lu'ayy, son of Ghalib, son of Fihr, son of Malik, son of Nadir, son of Kinanah, son of Khuzayma, son of Ilyas, son of Mudar, son of Nizar, son of Ma'aad, son of Adnan, son of Udd, son of Udad, son of Al Yasu, son of Yashub, son of Hamil, son of Kaydar, son of Prophet Ishmael, son of Prophet Abraham, son of Azar, son of Tarikh, son of Yahur, son of Ushru, son of Arghu, son of Kalun. son of Faligh, son of Amir, son of Shaligh, son of Arfakhshad, son of Shem, son of Prophet Noah, son of Malik, son of Mattushalakh, son of Akhnukh, son of Yard, son of Mahla'il, son of Kinan, son of Anush, son of Kinan, son of Sheeth, son of Prophet Adam Peace be upon all the Prophets

[end of copy-paste]

Now this above list has variations to it in some of the names of the lineage of Bani Adam (Sons of Adam). This is just one sample list.

Now basic math and common sense cannot EXTEND this list to span from 570 A.D. (when Nabih Muhammad was born) all the way back to Nabih Adam (anywhere from 4000 B.C. to 10,000 B.C.)...

Do the simple math.

Also, the Holy Qur'an NEVER gives any specific number as to the length of the age of some of the ancient prophets as does the Bible. Biblical accounts has given a few of the earliest prophets' lifelines several hundred years. The Holy Qur'an does not even IMPLY such incredibly long lifelines for any of the anbiya (prophets) mentioned therein.

The Meccans, who were formerly called The Settlers (Al-Quraysh), were traditionally identified as direct descendants of the Nabataeans (i.e. Al-Anbat).

Also, refer to my Wiladats & Wafats... thread in the Prophet Mohammed Week Events Archive forum for further details on this subject.

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Also, the Holy Qur'an NEVER gives any specific number as to the length of the age of some of the ancient prophets as does the Bible.

In case of Noah, the Quran dos give some indication of his age.

[29:14] "And We sent Noah (as our messenger) to his folk and he continued for a thousand years less fifty.

And the flood engulfed them as they were wrong-doers."

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In case of Noah, the Quran dos give some indication of his age.

[29:14] "And We sent Noah (as our messenger) to his folk and he continued for a thousand years less fifty.

And the flood engulfed them as they were wrong-doers."

My error. Nabih Nuh's incredibly lengthy lifeline being the exception...alfa sanatin illa khamseena...

Totally slipped my mind. Thanks for the correction and reminder.

Nonetheless, here is something that a few have considered regarding the incredibly lengthy lifelines mentioned in the monotheist scriptures for some of the earliest prophets [here is one example]:

In Noah's day they counted one year as seven like dogs do. Having said that Noah was approximately

136 years old.

Of course, if we go by the traditional Biblical lifelines, from the birth of Nabih Adam to the death of Nabih Musa spans a period of 12,591 human years...

Below is an interesting copy-paste:


Noah's Age

Copyright Tim Lovett June 2007 | Home | Menu

Noah lived to 950 years

Noah lived a longer life than Adam, and is the third oldest person ever recorded. He spent his first 600 years in the pre-flood world, and then 350 years in the post-flood world (our world).

Why did the age of Noah's descendents drop so sharply? This study explores explores the Biblical picture and argues the case for a genetic factor - loss of longevity trait.

Longevity from Adam to Moses

Genesis records the ages of the first fathers in meticulous detail. However, the ancestry is entirely in the line of Seth, so we can only speculate about the ages of people descended from Cain (plus all the other sons and daughter of Adam and Eve - which should have been many). Dates in red are approximate. These figures are based on the Masoretic text which is the source used by most modern Bibles.

* Left the earth without dying (As did Elijah and Jesus) patriachs.jpg


* Gen 11:26, Terah was 70 when he fathered Abram, Nahor & Haran, but Abram was not have been the oldest. According to Creation 25(2) March-May 2003, "Meeting the Ancestors" Table on p14, Abraham was born in 2008.

See also http://www.amen.org....trageb.htm#fig1 for the following explanations.

* Gen 11:32 says Terah aged 205 at death (died 2083 A.M.) Acts 7:4 says when Terah died Abram left Haran. Stephen makes explicit what is implicit in Gen 11:27-12:5, that Abram had two calls. At first call Abram left Ur, but halted at Haran. Abram was 75 when he left Haran (Gen 12:4). Thus Abram was 75 when Terah dies at 205, therefore Terah was 130 when Abram was born, hence Abraham's birthdate is deduced at 2008.

Birth of Joseph Joseph stood before Pharaoh age 30 (Gen 41:46). At end of 7 years plenty Joseph = 37 (Gen 41:29-30). At end of 2 years famine, when Jacob came to Egypt Joseph was 39. (Gen 45:6). At end of 2 years famine when Jacob came to Egypt, Jacob was 130 (Gen 47:9) (i.e. in the year 2298 A.M.). Hence Jacob was 91 when Joseph born. Joseph is a younger 'brother' of Levi.

Birth of Moses Moses and Aaron were sons of Amram (Ex 6:20). Moses birth has to be deduced: Call of Abram to Exodus (Ex 12:40-41) = 430 years (NB 430 years not the length of time in Egypt, which was 215 years - clearly so in view of the genealogy of Moses - for further details see Anstey, (1913) p113-125). Call of Abram to Joseph (2083-2369) = 286 years hence Death of Joseph to Exodus = 144 years

Less Age of Moses at Exodus = 80 years (Ex 7:7), leaves 64 years. Hence Moses born 2369+64 = 2433 A.M.

A date for Babel

There are several non-chronological portions of Genesis. The most famous is the Genesis 2 recap of chapter 1, focusing on Adam and Eve. Even the rather chronological Chapter 7 chops and changes with summarizing statements sprinkled throughout the text.

The apparent contradiction of separate languages in Chapter 10 'prior' to the tower of Babel in Chapter 11 is another example of overlapping chronology. The genealogies of Chapter 10 extend beyond the tower of Babel. Some apparent contradictions turn out to be key verses - in this case they can be used to date the tower of Babel incident.

In Japheth's line: Japheth > Javan > (Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim etc) > "the maritime peoples spread out into their territories...each with its own language". This places the Babel dispersion in the third generation after Japheth (assuming no generations have been skipped, which is possible considering the line of Japheth is receiving secondary attention here.)

In Ham's line the Babel event is not so obvious. We can trace a few generations; Ham > Cush > Raamah > ? > Nimrod, and we also know that other people groups were descendents of Ham's other sons Mizraim (Ludites, Anamites, Philistines etc) and Canaan (Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites etc). So the exact generation is not apparent here, except that the city establishing traits of Nimrod dictate a post-Babel era.

In Shem's line (the Semitic peoples), we have Shem > Aram > Arphaxad > Eber > Peleg ("for in his days was the earth divided" Gen 10:25). Since the whole chapter is devoted to the formation of nations after the flood, this is a clear depiction of the scattering at Babel, placing the event in the fourth generation after Shem. Since Peleg was named "division", he must have been born just after it happened. This restricts the Babel date to just before 1757, almost exactly 100 years after the flood.

Was this enough time to build up the Babel workforce? These people (Noah's descendents) were extremely healthy and long-lived, and had just been told by God to go forth and multiply. No doubt the growing activity was reminiscent of the days of ark construction. The limited time might appear to limit the scale of the construction project at Babel, especially when compared to the soon-to-be-built ancient monuments like the pyramids in Egypt and others around the globe. Noah's cubit was almost certainly in use all this time.

<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 12px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 6px">Wesley Bruce (Dec 18, 2004) writes;

The problem you have is that the fecundity figures you have used are at the lower limit of the options. For modern women with a life span of 70 years and for only half of which they are fertile we can get an average of 10 children per generation.

Population calculations based on the number of founders mentioned is normal but risky. If we assume all the male children are listed in the first and second generation, then your figures are valid but if we assume that the genesis ten patriarchs are the surviving leaders and many either died in the strife of Babel's last days or simply aren't mentioned because they threw their lot in with the named 'tribes', then the population could be an order of magnitude larger.

You have argued the wives had shorter life spans, interesting but not robust. It would have been mentioned. If they lived ~430 then the same number of children can't be true. Assuming some female fertility control [ breast feeding reduces the tendency of ovulation] but no birth control we can assume 2 to 3 years between children. This translates to 133 children per adult life span 400 years, its not the same dynamics as today because you have multiple overlapping fertile generations. However we can assume that the first generation of mothers had the most time to have children, the second generation half that and the third generation the least time to have children. We could halve 133 number safely and stick with 10 in the final generation.

Using the calculation format you give your argument it is more likely to be:

Noah = 2 (Noah and his wife)

Gen 1 = 6 (Shem, Ham Japheth)

Gen 2 = Gen1 / 2 x 66 = 198 (Aram, Cush, Javan etc)

Gen 3 = Gen2 / 2 x 33 = 3267 (Arphaxad, Raamah, Tarshish etc)

Gen 4 = Gen3 / 2 x 10 = 16335 (Eber, maybe Nimrod etc),

So the total available workforce, excluding the first two generations who may have refused to take part:

= 198 + 3267 + 16335 = 19800 men and women, so perhaps around 17800 workers assuming everyone was behind it. It is a big crowd and perhaps the growing activity was reminiscent of the days of ark construction. Due to their longevity they may have been inclined to long term projects lasting 50 to 100 years.

This would place Babel more than 101 years after the flood. Most place Babel at the birth of Peleg ("for in his days was the earth divided" however please note that it says 'in his days' not 'at his birth' so we have another variable; the life span of Peleg, this can add 239 years. It is probable that we are seeing a name change as with Abram/Abraham or Saul/ Paul. Thus I could put Babel as late as 1876, halfway through Pelegs life. Just prier to Terah's birth.

It would allow big loss rate between the fourth generation and the 5th. People don't scatter out of an urbanised area because they can't communicate. The Babel refugees are fleeing Nimrod's violence, "the hunter of men", and famine caused by the collapse of organized society and trade. They were forced from a wealthy bronze age civilization with farming and trade to a stone-age existence with only hunting and gathering in the lands beyond. This and the loss of longevity genes implies some, perhaps significant, loss of population after Babel. This would also have produced rapid racial diversity.

Lastly the note that you give on longevity is very good but you might think about death by violence. It is in the text and would further the contrast in life span between Noah's line and Cain's.


"The numbers are months, not years".

Since the longevity appears to be about 10 times the modern lifespan, a natural conclusion is to doubt their authenticity. Converting the pre-flood figures to months seems to bring the ages within comfortable limits - Methuselah's 969 years becomes 81. But there are some fatal flaws with this theory.

- The fathering age is too low. Enoch was 65 when he fathered Methuselah, and 65 months makes him a father at the grand old age of 5. In fact most of the lineage would have been fathered by children who had yet to reach puberty!

- When do the ages revert to years? The "years-are-months" theory has a problem with the flood. If the ages are to revert to years from after flood, then Shem is still a 'difficult' age of 600 years old. Continuing in months is impossible from Noah to Abraham since they nearly all fathered in their early thirties. (That converts to 2 years old!). Abraham is a familiar figure whose wife bore a child in old age - but 90 months is not too old, its too young! Noah himself spans pre and post flood, so his age is just as much a 'problem' in the month theory as it was in the literal reading of years.

- As for counting years using some intermediate period between a month and a year, there will always be a problem of ages too old of fathers too young. Besides, how dumb are you claiming Noah's timekeeping to be?

"God limited our lives to 120 years"

When Noah is first introduced in Genesis, God states his intention to limit man's years to 120. Some have interpreted this to mean 120 year lifespans. This is an untenable position considering that every patriarch from Noah to Abraham broke this 'rule'. ( Not to mention 180 year old Isaac 180 and Jacob's 147 ). There appears to be no way to force this interpretation into the text. A more logical meaning of the 120 years is that it forms a countdown to the flood. Twenty years before Noah's first child, God reveals his intentions to wipe out the world.

"A better climate extended the lives"

If this is the case then we would expect Noah to live much shorter than Adam, but he outlived him by 20 years. Noah was the third oldest recorded man. (Although no records of women's ages are given prior to the flood, the first was Abraham's (175) wife and half-sister Sarah who died at 127. Gen23:1). A climate destroyed by the flood would likely be much more obvious in the immediate generations after Noah, but the decline is asymptotic. In fact, unless one believes in Lamarchian evolution, the lifespans should have dipped and then recovered somewhat as natural selection favored the new climate performers. Lastly, since hyperbaric atmospheric conditions are not a necessary part of a floodwater model, there is no plausible climactic mechanism for longevity. If there was, one would expect we'd have found it by now. If anything, the countries with the longest life expectancy are generally colder climates - the opposite to the belief in a warmer world before the flood.

Before the flood...

Maximum ages between Adam and Noah were effectively static in the line of Seth.

The length of Enoch's life is excluded since he did not die of old age. While there appears to be a faint downward trend, this is attributable to Noah's father Lamech who died at 777 years. (Without him, the ages actually have an upward trend.). Effectively then, it appears that the longevity of the descendents of Seth was virtually constant - with an average of 930 years - the same age as Adam himself. Premature aging does not appear to be linked to an accumulation of DNA copying errors (mutations) within the first 10 generations of Noah's ancestry. Discounting Lamech, whose life may have been cut short by accident/disease/conflict/poor management, the increasing lifespan would indicate Noah's genetic makeup was on par with the pristine Adam.

It would be interesting to know how the other descendents fared - like the longevity in Cain's line for example. Little chance of recovering this information!


Table 1: Lifespans from Adam to Noah in the Seth line.

After the Flood...

There is a distinct change in longevity after the flood.

The figures drop sharply at first but level out after Abraham. It seems there was a loss of a longevity trait; this trait being diluted in successive generations, pointing to a genetic rather than environmental factor dominating the age limits. The record of post-flood longevity shows a decay corresponding to an inverse power of generational count from Noah.


Table2: Lifespans from Noah to Abraham.

Inherited Short Life?

Consider this possible scenario...

Noah's family were the sole survivors of the flood due to the irreversible wickedness of the rest of the world. Since Methuselah died in the year of the flood it appears that God waited until his death (and the building of the ark) before sending the judgment. If Noah lost other sons and daughters in the flood then it is strange that this is not recorded. Furthermore, Noah's character as a father would be in question. An explanation would need to be devised for why his earlier family was a dead loss but his later three sons (including the very human Ham) were all preserved. The simplest Biblically justifiable case is that Noah, like Abraham, was childless for most of his life (no doubt to the delight of his fellow ante-diluvians).

In the recorded ancestry of Noah the fathering age averages 120 years. This is almost certainly 'old', since there is ample evidence that they didn't all wait that long. After Cain killed his brother Abel and was punished with the curse of a nomadic lifestyle, he complained to God that he would be at the mercy of anyone who finds him. Even if this statement was an exaggeration of the fallen character of man at this early stage, it demonstrates one thing - that there were plenty of people around. At this stage Adam would have been approaching 130 years old (since creation), assuming the next baby was to be called Seth - the replacement for Abel. In 130 years, with a breeding age starting at 25 years and with no old-age limits coming into play, and one child every 3 years per breeding couple, the number of people on the earth could be approx 386 000. So the line of Seth starts when the world population has already begun to boom. Coupled with the obvious empire establishing traits of his older brother Cain, the population of the Seth line would have appeared insignificant.

It seems reasonable that Noah was the last surviving descendent of Seth, hence the pressure against his progeny (childless like the other promised father - Abraham). It might be difficult to argue that all 3 wives were somehow righteous descendents of Seth even though no other male survived uncorrupted. More likely (from a statistical viewpoint) they were righteous non-Sethites.

Against this fairly reasonable backdrop I will paint a possible scenario. The lifespan of the non-Sethite line was shortened by sin - because the wages of sin is death. After generations of furious short lives, the lifespans of people like Methuselah would have been a testimony against wickedness - no doubt infuriating the descendents of Cain for example. This dichotomy becoming more exaggerated until Noah's era, where the ark construction period outlived the average ante-diluvian, making it appear all the more comical to the next generation.

The Bible indicates Noah was more ignored than resisted. No record of battles on the building site, not even any indication of resistance to his project. Jesus indicates they were just going about their lives "marrying and giving in marriage" (as per usual) right up to the time Noah entered the ark. The most reasonable picture would be this - despite the spectacle of a huge barn full of animals and built like a fortress, the novelty had faded long ago to the ante-diluvians. After all, the structure had been there for decades - even generations. A short lived population would have a shorter memory, less able to see the big picture and more likely to ignore rather than resist Noah.

Now,whether the mechanism was genetic or a spiritual heritage (or both), the non Sethite ante-diluvians had shorter lives. So too the wives of Noah's sons, and even Noah's own wife. (Another possible explanation for 500 barren years was that there was no Sethite women left - an apparent defeat of the Messianic line).

If we assume Noah has a potential for 950 years and his wife and daughters-in-law say 200, then this is what happens; Noah lives around 950 years. He is married during the construction and has 3 sons, but his wife barely lives into the new world - too old to have more children. The 3 sons Shem, Ham and Japheth live approximately the average of their parents (550). Since the daughters-in-law are expected to live around 200 years, the grandchildren might expect to live an average of 550 and 200 (around 375 years) and level off from there.

Presuming the mechanism for shortened life expectancy was revived, then perhaps the lifestyles or behavior of successive generations contribute to the declining lifespans of around 70 years for King David and modern man. Another clue is the extended life (120 years) of the overworked but holy Moses. His good health at 120 years of age was not due to environmental factors by any stretch of the imagination! Forty years in a palace, forty as a shepherd and forty years running around the desert.

With the passing of time, the mixing of corrupted DNA and inherited curses makes it impossible to correlate individual righteousness with longevity. Rather like the rich man in Jesus day was not necessarily the image of Abraham. So short lifespans were initiated by sin but principally inherited.

Alternative Chronology based on other Texts

Arguments for using other texts beside the Masoretic (Ref 3) stretches the timescale significantly (thousands actually). The explanation given was that perhaps ciphers for 100's had been dropped, trimming 1300 years from Genesis 5 and 11 in the Masoretic Text (MT). According to the LXX chronology, the Flood occurred in 3537 BC, with Babel around 3300 BC, creation at 5793 BC ± 10 years. The Babel date seems odd, according to my calculations Peleg was born 2787AM and the flood at 2258 AM leaving 529 years leading up to Babel. This seems easier because Noah is not at the Babel scene, and Shem doesn't outlive nearly all his descendents including Abraham's father Terah, making Noah's son well and truly Abraham's contemporary.

Alternative views are discussed by Pete Williams. (Ref 4)


Edited by Al-Afza

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In Noah's day they counted one year as seven like dogs do. Having said that Noah was approximately

136 years old.

I don't think the Quran is using the dog's method in calculating the number of years.

If the Quran says "950 years", I believe it would mean "950 years" as we know it.

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I don't think the Quran is using the dog's method in calculating the number of years.

If the Quran says "950 years", I believe it would mean "950 years" as we know it.

The dog's method was but an analogy.

And are you positively sure about that ?

Which calculation ? Solar, lunar, tropical (seasonal), or astronomical ? There are differences...

If lunar, then which one ?

The Chinese lunar "year" (sana) is approximately equal to 12 civil calendar years, while their lunar "month" (shahr) is approximately equivalent to one civil calendar year.

The Hijri lunar calendar loses 10-11 days every year, being approximately 354 days...

The Judaic lunar calendar* also varies in its annual cycle...

Further examples of chronology from the Holy Qur'an:

[copy-pasted from a website]

1. Time of Allah is incomparable to earthly time

The Qur'an says in two verses, (22:47 and 32:5), that the measure of one day in the sight of Allah is equal to 1,000 years of our reckoning. In another verse (70:4) it says that the measure of one day in the sight of Allah is equal to 50,000 years of our reckoning.

These verses generally mean that the time of Allah (swt) is incomparable to the earthly time. The examples given are of one thousand years and fifty thousand years of the earthly time. In other words thousands of years or a very, very long time of the earth a day in the sight of Allah is equal to:

2. Yaum also means Period

The Arabic word used in all these three verses is yaum, which, besides meaning a day also means a long period, or an epoch. If you translate the word yaum correctly as 'period' there will be no confusion.

a) The verse from Surah Hajj reads as:

"Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! but Allah will not fail in His promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning".

[Al-Qur'an 22:47]

When the unbelievers asked to hasten the punishment the Qur'an says Allah will not fail in His promise. Verily a period in the sight of Allah is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

The verse from Surah Al-Sajdah says:

"He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth: in the end will (all affairs) go up? To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be a thousand years of your reckoning".

[Al-Qur'an 32:5]

This verse indicates that a period required for all the affairs to go up to Allah (swt), is a thousand years of our reckoning.

c) A verse from Surah Al-Maarij says:

"The angels and the spirit ascend unto Him in a Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years".

[Al-Qur'an 70:4]

This verse means that the period required for angels and the spirits to ascend unto Allah (swt) is fifty thousand years.

[end of copy-paste]


* The Jewish lunar calendar cycles:

[copy-pasted from a website]

An ordinary (non-leap) year has 353, 354, or 355 days. A leap year has 383, 384, or 385 days. The three lengths of the years are termed, "deficient," "regular," and "complete," respectively.

An ordinary year has 12 months, a leap year has 13 months.

Every month starts (approximately) on the day of a new moon.

The month Adar I is only present in leap years. In non-leap years Adar II is simply called "Adar."

Note that in a regular year the numbers 30 and 29 alternate; a complete year is created by adding a day to Heshvan, whereas a deficient year is created by removing a day from Kislev.

The alteration of 30 and 29 ensures that when the year starts with a new moon, so does each month.

[end of copy-paste]

Edited by Al-Afza

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I don't think the Quran is using the dog's method in calculating the number of years.

If the Quran says "950 years", I believe it would mean "950 years" as we know it.

One item I forgot to present was the concept of the year (sana)...As "we" know it or knew it...

It has different chronological cycles and methods of measurement depending upon the civilization and culture concerned.

For example, during the Old Kingdom of Egypt in Pharaoh Khufu's reign, a year (sana) was measured by the "annual" cattle-count (which was in fact a biannual cattle-count according to the seasonal or tropical year).

Nabih Nuh's civilization was that of the lost Dilmun (the long submerged eastern province of Arabia which is today the Persian Gulf)...

What the people of Dilmun of Nabih Nuh's time considered a year (sana) is yet to be discovered and determined. Since recent underwater archaeological findings are making breakthroughs about this lost civilization of Dilmun which was submerged via a catastrophic flood, the verse 29:14 of the Holy Qur'an is yet to be properly comprehended.

We really don't know what alfa sanatin illa khamseena precisely means in terms of time measurement according to the days of Nabih Nuh[Noah]...

There were some shamanistic cultures that measured a season as one entire year (sana). Consequently, one solar or even lunar year would be 4 years of such reckoning...

Edited by Al-Afza

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We really don't know what alfa sanatin illa khamseena precisely means in terms of time measurement according to the days of Nabih Nuh[Noah]

The Quran's reckoning must be according to the astronomy in the days of the Holy Prophet, which would be lunar years.

The 950 lunar years would translate to about 925 solar years.

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