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Tabernacle is greater than Kaaba

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Believe it or not, The Ruach HA Qodesh, the holy spirit, Jesus himself, whatever you wanna call the spirit, used to dwell on the Tabernacle, but we don't see any holy spirit dwelling on the Kaaba. Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Salam[shalom]/Peace...

Here is a another link between the Biblical/Judeo-Christian verses and the Holy Qur'an which further identifies the Valley of Baca and Zion with Wadi al-Bakka, Hejaz in Arabia...

From a Hebrew language reference translation :

tsiyah

tsee-yaw'

from an unused root meaning to parch; aridity; concretely, a desert:--barren, drought, dry (land, place), solitary place, wilderness.

tsiyown

tsee-yone'

from the same as 'tsiyah' ; a desert:--dry place.

tsiyuwn

tsee-yoon'

from the same as 'tsiyah' in the sense of conspicuousness (compare 'natsach' ; a monumental or guiding pillar:--sign, title, waymark.

Tsiyown

tsee-yone'

the same (regularly) as 'tsiyuwn' ; Tsijon (as a permanent capital), a mountain of Jerusalem:--Zion.

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The candidacy for The Kaaba at Wadi al-Bakka[Valley of Baca] is far stronger as the true Biblical Zion[Dry Land] than Mount Zion at Jerusalem[City of Peace]. Especially, considering that neither Mt. Zion or Jerusalem itself were ever particularly dry or barren.

180px-Yad_Vashem_view_of_Jerusalem_valley_by_David_Shankbone.jpg

View of Jerusalem Valley from Yad Vashem

----------------------------------------------------

From Isaiah 53:1 of The Bible[King James Version] :

For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

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Becca[Mecca] City, on the other hand, was once a dry, barren place surrounded by wilderness which today has been transformed into a beautiful, breathtaking city.

180px-The_Holy_Kabbah_in_Makkah.jpg

The Kaaba in Wadi al-Bakka[Valley of Mecca], Hejaz, Arabia.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Believe it or not, The Ruach HA Qodesh, the holy spirit, Jesus himself, whatever you wanna call the spirit, used to dwell on the Tabernacle, but we don't see any holy spirit dwelling on the Kaaba. Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Salam[shalom]/Peace...

Also, if you are wondering about equating the Bekaa Valley in NE Lebanon[near the Syrian border] with the Biblical Valley of Baca, than that presents major problems...

For one, Bekaa Valley is about 185 miles NORTHEAST of Mount Zion and Jerusalem...There would be no particular need at all for pilgrims to pass through it to go to appear before God in Zion[Dry Land].

Furthermore, NEITHER Bekaa Valley nor Jerusalem were ever dry, barren land. NEITHER qualifies as Zion[Dry Land] from the Biblical/Judeo-Christian traditions...

In historical and geological fact, they NEVER did. Bekaa Valley has always been one of the most fertile spots on earth; while Jerusalem Valley, was even more green and lush in ancient and medieval times than it is today. Because of centuries of invasions and occupation by ancient and medieval civilizations and nations[Akkadian Iraqis; Khurrite Syrians; Hittite Anatolians; Egyptians; Babylonian Iraqis; Assyrian Iraqis; Chaldean Iraqis; Achaemenid Persians; Macedonian Greeks; Romans; Byzantines; Hejazi Arabians; European "Crusaders"; etc.], vaste amount of trees and foliage were cutdown and depleted in Jerusalem.

Nonetheless, Jerusalem Valley to this very day is still NOT DRY, BARREN LAND. And neither is the Bekaa Valley of Lebanon...In fact Lebanon is widely billed as The Only Country In The Middle East That Does Not Have A DESERT...It couldn't possibly be the valley that houses the Biblical Zion[Dry Land].

Mount Lebanon & Bekaa Valley, Lebanon

-lebanon_nature2.jpg

lebanon_nature40.jpg

200px-Beqaa-vineyard.JPG

Jerusalem Valley, Palestine[aka Israel]

TME2423.jpg

180px-Yad_Vashem_view_of_Jerusalem_valley_by_David_Shankbone.jpg

thumbnail.large.1.1202307480.img_1335.jpg

thumbnail.large.jordan2005.1113667140.p1010117.jpg

thumbnail.large.israel-06.1155830400.picture_018.jpg

City of David

Jerusalem, Israel

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Believe it or not, The Ruach HA Qodesh, the holy spirit, Jesus himself, whatever you wanna call the spirit, used to dwell on the Tabernacle, but we don't see any holy spirit dwelling on the Kaaba. Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Salam[shalom]/Peace...

The one word which has both inspired a mass settlement[i.e. occupation] and incited irreconcilable resentment-- ZION[Dry Land]--has not even been properly understood. From not studying its literal or etymological meaning and definition, course of history was changed and rewritten.

The U.S. post-WW II backing of the formation of the State of Israel, was supported by an ultra-conservative Bible-belt, Bible-thumping American lobby. It was solely based on the belief that Almighty God resided in Zion and will return there on Judgement Day. It was this U.S. backing and support of the formation of the State of Israel, that actually made it happen more so than anything else.

What is most ironic is that the very word Zion, so despised by the Arab-Standard Islamic world and even by some Anti-Ashkenazi[i.e.European Jews] Occidental Christians, has been completely geographically misplaced...And is of Arabic etymological origin!

Whether Wadi al-Bakka[Valley of Baca] of the Bible is the Zion[Dry Land] that is Islamic Mecca; Hejaz, Arabia or not, the one thing that is positive is that neither are Jerusalem Valley, Palestine[israel] or Bekaa Valley, Lebanon[Phoenicia]...

Finally, how many Muslims around the world are fully aware that the Bible in Arabic translations for Arab Christians, has always translated the name of God as Allah...?

Even to this very day...As it has been a point of contention for many Non-Arab Christians around the world...

P.S. - The Ruach Ha Qodesh[The Holy Spirit] in Hebrew translates as Rooh-e-Quddus[The Holy Spirit] in Arabic.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Believe it or not, The Ruach HA Qodesh, the holy spirit, Jesus himself, whatever you wanna call the spirit, used to dwell on the Tabernacle, but we don't see any holy spirit dwelling on the Kaaba. Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Salam[shalom]/Peace...

One of the problems with the Biblical/Judeo-Christian descriptions of the word Zion[Dry Land; Desert Land], is that there is no fixed identification as to what it really represents...

Is it a city, a valley, or a mountain ?

The word Zion[Tsiyyon/Siyyon] literally means Dry Land and/or Desert Land. And the word is of Arabic etymological origin, not Hebrew.

The description in Isaiah 53:1 can only befit a valley...Not even a city. However, Isaiah 8:18, states Zion to be a mountain. From the various mentions of Zion in Psalms link it by name to Jerusalem[City of Peace]...

With the specific mention of the Valley of Baca in Psalm 84:6, Zion is a valley.

As of the nomenclature Israel, it is unanimously established that it is NOT a geographical place but the cognomen or epithet of Nabih[Prophet] Yaqub[Jacob]...

There was a Heqa Khasewet[Hyksos] king of Ancient Egypt actually named YAKUB-HAR !

Pharaoh Merneptah's stele mentions Israel by name, but only as a PROGENITOR...NOT a geographic place. In fact, Merneptah's stele mentions the land of PALUSATA[Philistia/Palestine] right beside its mention of the "Seed of Israel"; ancient Egyptians called the Philistines/Palestinans Peleset.

The word Zion is mentioned 154 times in the Tanakh or Hebrew Bible[Old Testament].

The specific mention of the Valley of Baca in Psalm 84:6 and of Zion in 84:7 of the Bible is a DIRECT link to the Ayats 3:96[surah Al-Baqarah/The Heifer] and 14:37[surah Ibrahim/Abraham]. The name Becca/Bakka is mentioned and the description of a Dry or Barren Valley is also mentioned.

Although, an alternate name for the Valley of Baca has been the Valley of Tears...But the Hebrew word for "tears" is Dema'ot [Dima - singular] NOT Baca...However, the Hebrew word Bekhi means "Crying", while the word Bakhinu means "Wept".

The derivation of Baca from Bekhi causes problems of metaphors as the verse goes :

Psalm 84:6[King James Version]

Who passing through the Valley of Baca[Weeping?] make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.

The "well" could be easily linked to the Aab-ul-Zamzam[Well of Zamzam].

From a Bible reference commentary :

Baca, etc. or, mulberry-trees, make him a well, etc: Baca is probably a large shrub, which the Arabs still call baca and this valley as Celsius observes, seems to be on embarrassed with such bushes and thorns, which could not be passed without labour and tears.

With the description of Sacred House at Becca as an uncultivated, dry or barren land, I would DIRECTLY relate the Biblical Valley of Baca with Wadi al-Bakka; Hejaz, Arabia.

Because NEITHER Jerusalem Valley, Israel[Palestine] or Bekaa Valley, Lebanon[Phoenicia] were historically or geologically EVER desert valleys, with bushes and thorns, the verse from Psalm 84:6 about the Valley of Baca CANNOT be about either of them...

Finally, the Bible was not COMPILED until 325 A.D., at the decree of Rome's very 1st Christian Emperor, Constantine I (the Great), by about 1800 scholars and theologians. This is only 300 years before the death of Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) in 632 A.D.

The most important thing to remember is that the Old Testament was originally derived from the Taurat/Torah[of Nabih Musa], Zabur/Psalms[of Nabih Daud], and Injil/Evangel[of Nabih Isa]; Nabih Musa's language was Old Hieratic; Nabih Daud's language was Archaic Syriac; Nabih Isa's language was Aramaic...

The Old Testament was translated from those ancient languages by Westerners/Occidentals into Greek; then Hebrew; then Medieval Latin; then Middle English. Hebrew was NOT the original language of the Old Testament, consequently some of the Hebraic definitions of certain words or phrases are most certainly subject to investigative etymological research.

Wa Huwa Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Salam[shalom]/Peace...

One of the greatest fallacies of linguistics is that there was such a language as Ancient Hebrew and that it was replaced by Aramaic, then re-invented from the 8th-10th Century A.D. by a group of Galilean scholars called the Massoretes...

Inspite of countless doctrines and theses by Biblical/Judeo-Christian scholars about the antiquity of Hebrew, non-religious, neutral academics hold onto hard archaeological facts...Not hearsay.

There has been no archaeological proof, whatsoever, that Hebrew existed prior to the 750-950 A.D. Massoretic timeline...

Even the Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in 1947 at Wadi Qumran, contains purely Aramaic and Greek script...Even though Hebrew is said to be largely included, this has been debated. A book entitled The Dead Sea Scroll Deception by Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh challenged this assessment. From an article excerpt on Baigent and Leigh :

Leigh and Baigent describe how the scrolls were kept under wraps for decades by a team dominated by Catholic scholars under the leadership of Dominican monk Roland De Vaux. They contend that the preconceptions of De Vaux and other members of the team led them to ignore evidence of probable first century provenance for many of the scrolls and instead consign them safely to the distant past.

The archaeological facts remain that the Galilean scholars from the coastal town Tiberias[named after Roman Emperor Tiberius]--the Massoretes--INVENTED the Hebrew script from circa 750-950 A.D. The OLDEST copy of the entire Old Testament written in Hebrew text that has survived to the present day, had been written circa 1000 A.D. and NO EARLIER. The Tiberian system of the Massoretic scholars were from the following [article excerpt from the New Advent Encyclopedia] :

The punctuation of the traditional text was just as certainly complete in the nineth century; for R. Saadia Gaon (d. 942), of Fayum in Egypt, wrote treatises thereon. The work of punctuating must have gone on for years and been done by a large number of scholars who laboured conjointly and authoritatively. Strack (see "Text of O.T.", in Hastings, "Dict. of Bib.") says it is practically certain that the points came into Massorah by Syriac influence. Syrians strove, by such signs, to perpetuate the correct vocalization and intonation of their Sacred text. Their efforts gave an impulse to Jewish zeal for the traditional vocalization of the Hebrew Bible. Bleek ("Introd. to 0.T.", I, 110, London, 1894) and others are equally certain that Hebrew scholars received their impulse to punctuation from the Moslem method of preserving the Arabic vocalization of the Koran. That Hebrew scholars were influenced by either Syriac or Arabic punctuation is undoubted. Both forms and names of the Massoretic points indicate either Syriac or Arabic origin. What surprises us is the absence of any vestige of opposition to this introduction into Massorah of points that were most decidedly not Jewish. The Karaite Jews surprise us still more, since, during a very brief period, they transliterated the Hebrew text in Arabic characters.

At least two systems of punctuation are Massoretic: the Western and the Eastern. The Western is called Tiberian, after the far famed school of Massorah at Tiberias. It prevailed over the Eastern system and is followed in most manuscripts as well as in all printed editions of the Massoretic text.

------------------------------------------------------------

The Syriac and Eastern influence over the Massoretic Hebrew texts can be linked also to the Akkadu[Akkadian] language's later dialects of Amurru[Babylonian]; Subartu[Assyrian]; Kaldu[Chaldean]. A prime example would be the nomenclature of the Hebrew Calendar months which have been directly derived from the Chaldean dialect.

Modern Hebrew was the revival of Eliezer Ben-Yehudah during the start of the 20th Century A.D.

In conclusion, the Classical Arabic language Holy Qur'an PRECEDES the oldest known Hebrew text of the Old Testament. The EARLIEST handwritten copy of the Holy Qur'an [written on deerskin folio] date back to the Caliphate of Hazrat Ali b. Abu Talib(656-661 A.D.); written by Caliph Ali himself.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Believe it or not, The Ruach HA Qodesh, the holy spirit, Jesus himself, whatever you wanna call the spirit, used to dwell on the Tabernacle, but we don't see any holy spirit dwelling on the Kaaba. Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Salam[shalom]/Peace...

In closure on this thread from my perspective, I advocate that the release of The Dead Sea Scrolls are a possible MONUMENTAL HOAX. It is food for thought that the Dead Sea Scrolls were conveniently discovered from 1947-1956 just around the time the State of Israel was being unjustifiably formed. Prior to their "accidental discovery" by a bedouin goatkeeper in 1947, the earliest existence of Biblical texts in Hebrew were the medieval Aleppo Codex (Tiberias, 920 A.D.) and Leningrad Codex (Cairo, 1010 A.D.); the Hebrew language and script did NOT EXIST prior to these...

The 80-85% script of the Dead Sea Scrolls in allegedly Pre-Tiberian Hebrew text conveniently ADDED an additional THOUSAND years to the Hebrew language. Furthermore, the FACT that the Dead Sea Scrolls were LOCKED away for 50 YEARS before finally being released in 1997 for public view implies a lot...

Since the alleged Shroud of Turin of Nabih Isa[Jesus Christ] turned out to be a colossal fake under modern technological examination in 1988, another such hoax probably could not be afforded by the Judeo-Christian theological world...

Also, the 12 Nag Hammadi leather-bound papyrus codices of 52 Gnostic treatises were accidentally discovered in 1945 in Egypt by a local named Mohammed Ali Samman. This was TWO YEARS before the Dead Sea Scrolls were also "accidentally discovered" at Wadi Qumran, near Jerusalem, by a local. The Nag Hammadi codices were highly controversial to the Judeo-Christian world in that some of the texts of the Gnostics were identical to verses in the Holy Qur'an. The look-alike personage of Simon of Cyrene, who was unwittingly crucified in Nabih Isa's place; Nabih Isa making birds out of clay and making them fly; etc.

These Gnostic treatises dated to the 2nd and 3rd Century A.D., PRECEDING the compilation of what became the Bible by one-to-two centuries ! The Bible was PRODUCED in 325 A.D. by the Council of Nicaea by 1800 Judeo-Christian scholars. The Nag Hammadi codices could have threatened to shake the very foundations of Judeo-Christian beliefs...

Finally, the sudden accidental discovery of "Hebrew texts" at the precise moment in history when a Jewish state was to be formed to justify Hebrew as a much older language, is begging to be properly investigated by a truly objective, fearless international scholarship...

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Salam[shalom]/Peace...

If the "Jewish" writing itself is an imitation of Saracen-Arab scripts, how can the Holy Kaaba be an imitation ?

"Hebrew" is an imitation of Aramaic script and Arabic, Syriac, and Aramaic vocalizations....

Even the so-called "Hebrew" text of the Nash Papyrus, once dated to 2nd Century A.D. but recently re-appraised to 150-100 B.C., is really ARAMAIC...

See the comparisons below :

The Nash Papyrus

180px-2nd_century_Hebrew_decalogue.jpg

Compare the Bilingual (Greek and Aramaic) inscriptions by King Ashoka Maurya of India at Kandahar (Shar-i-kuna). (3rd century BCE). Preserved at Kabul Museum. Two-dimensional inscription.

AsokaKandahar.jpg

The VERY FIRST Hebrew Biblical Text by the Massorah (Yahudi Galilean scholars)

180px-Aleppo_codex.jpg

Aleppo(Halab) Codex: 10th century[920 A.D.] Tiberian Script Hebrew Bible with Massoretic pointing (Joshua 1:1)

P.S. - Also, check out any alphabetical chart comparison between Aramaic and Hebrew online and it is obvious that the Hebrew script was directly copied from Aramaic...

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Appended To Previous Reply :

Although many Judeo-Christian scholars persist that there was a language and script such as Ancient Hebrew,

this remains a COLOSSAL FALLACY & MYTH ...

Many online charts and tables will indicate the so-called Ancient Hebrew myth but those charts and tables are of ARAMAIC, PHOENICIAN, UGARITIC, MANDAIC, KHAROSHTHI languages and their varied DIALECTS ...

They are most certainly NOT "Ancient Hebrew" ... Even though they are being falsely and even fraudulently PASSED OFF as "Ancient Hebrew"...

Compare & Analyze The Charts & Tables Presented Below :

Hebrew [*Invented circa 750-950 A.D. by the Massorah/Massoretes in Tiberias, Palestine]

post-25505-12522658087732_thumb.jpg

Note That Many Ancient Semitic Language Charts & Tables Will ERRONEOUSLY List Either Early or Middle Aramaic [And Its Various Dialects] As Well As Early or Middle Phoenician As "Ancient Hebrew" or "Moabite" :

post-25505-12522658620362_thumb.jpg

Additional Ancient Language Charts & Tables :

post-25505-12522659528753_thumb.png

post-25505-1252265968176_thumb.gif

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And Finally The IMPERIAL ARAMAIC ALPHABET Download Below WHICH IS A MUST SEE !

Imperial_Aramaic_Alphabet.pdf

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

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The most important thing to remember is that the Old Testament was originally derived from the Taurat/Torah[of Nabih Musa], Zabur/Psalms[of Nabih Daud], and Injil/Evangel[of Nabih Isa]; Nabih Musa's language was Old Hieratic; Nabih Daud's language was Archaic Syriac; Nabih Isa's language was Aramaic...

In an appended CORRECTION to one of my own earlier postings, Nabih Daud's native language was Eblan or Eblaic[Eblahite]...Not Archaic Syriac; Eblan/Eblaic was a previously unknown Semitic language whose vocalization was surprisingly similar to the centuries later Classical Arabic.

Ebla literally means "White Rock"[i.e. Limestone]; Ebla is an ancient city 40 km south of Aleppo[Halab] in Syria. Archaeological excavations began in the 1960's by an Italian archaeological team; 15,000 Ebla Tablets were found in 1975 and an additional 1600 in 1976. The Italian archaeological team had hit pay dirt when they found the names of ancient Saracen[Near Eastern] legendary monotheist figures in Eblaic[Eblahite] language, but in Sumerian cuneiform script. The Ebla Tablets containing these ancient monotheist names were radiocarbondated to 2300 B.C.[Late 3rd Millennium B.C.] !

Mikailu [Mikail/Michael]

Adamu [Adam]

Hawa [Eve]

Ibramu [ibrahim/Abraham]

Ishmail [ismail/Ishmael]

Esaum [Esau]

Shaulum [Talut(?)/Saul]

Daudum [Daud/David]*

[*It ends with Nabih Daud's name with no mention of his son Nabih Sulayman; it is assumed that it was written during Nabih Daud's timeline, before Nabih Sulayman succeeded him and came into prominence. Or that they were inscribed during Nabih Sulayman's timeline itself.]

Also, words such as K-t-b[i.e. Kitab] or "to write" and Malikum[i.e. Malik] or "king" were also found. Eblan or Eblaic was a pure Semitic language and the root language of Early Aramaic; the Early Aramaic script was directly derived from the ancient Lebanese[Phoenician] script, but its vocalization was from ancient Syrian or Eblan/Eblaic[Eblahite].

From the Ebla excavations, there is strong archaeological evidence that the kingdom and dynasty established by King Talut, and succeeded by Kings Daud[David] and Sulayman[solomon], was really in SYRIA and not the originally intended Palestine[Philistia]. After all, the Bani Israil tribe with its twelve large clans wandered for 40 YEARS before finally settling down; this is documented in both Quranic and Biblical/Judeo-Christian traditions.

Similarly, in much later Saracen[Near Eastern] history, Caliph Ali, who was originally from the Hejaz in Western Arabia, moved his Islamic capital to Kufa, Iraq. He did this for the security and protection of the holy cities of Yathrib/Taybah[Medina] and Bekka[Mecca] from Standard Islam's hidden, internal enemy--the Banu Umayyah clan. The Umayyad Caliphate had established their future Arab Empire capital in Damascus, Syria, even though they were also from the Hejaz in West Arabia.

The ancient city of Ebla, Syria

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The Ebla Tablets

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The Ugaritic cuneiform script of Ugarit, Syria, which is very similar to the Shumeru[sumerian] cuneiform script :

post-25505-12525527653877_thumb.jpg

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

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Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Salam[shalom].

As a recap and summary, the facts are that the Hebrew language was PRECEDED by Arabic for over six centuries.

Classical Arabic dated from 2nd Century A.D. as a spoken language, and 3rd Century A.D. as a written one; it evolved from the highly cursive Aramaic-derived Nabataean script of Urdunn(Jordan) and the cursive Arabic Musnad of Yemen.

Hebrew was INVENTED in Tiberias, Palestine from 750-950 A.D. by the Massorah/Massoretes[Judaic Galilean scholars]; it took the Massorah 150 YEARS to devise Hebrew as both a spoken and written language from 750-900 A.D.; it took the Massorah an additional 20 YEARS to compile the VERY FIRST Hebrew text which was the Tanakh or Old Testament, from Greek translations of Aramaic and Syriac monotheist scriptures; this text is the Tiberian or Aleppo[Halab] Codex of 920 A.D.

The Hebrew script was directly derived or copied from the Imperial Aramaic script; Hebrew vocalization was directly derived from Classical Arabic, Syriac, and Aramaic.

The very word "Hebrew" is a corruption of Ivri, which is said to mean "one from across the river[Jordan]"...

Standard Israeli = Ivrit

Sephardi = Ivri

Yemeni = Ibri

Iraqi = Ibrani

Ashkenazi[European Jews] = Ivris

Many Judeo-Christian scholars have tried to link the Hapiru or Apiru of 18th Dynasty Pharaonic Ancient Egyptian texts, as the HEBREWS who were allegedly enslaved in bondage for 430 years. But this has been refuted in light of historical research which identify the Hapiru/Apiru as predecessors(salaf) of the Bisharin bedouins of the Sinai Desert; hapiru/apiru literally meant "nomad" and its etymological origin is yet to be determined, even though it appeared in both Egyptian Hieroglyphic and Hieratic texts.

Hebrew is in fact derived from the Arabic word Hibri[pertaining to the Doctors of Law]...

Hibr = Doctor of Law [singular]

Ahbar = Doctors of Law [plural]

Although, scores of Judeo-Christian treatises about Pre-Tiberian Hebrew texts in the alleged Mishnaic/Tannaitic Hebrew and Amoraic Hebrew are recorded, it is mind-boggling that NOT ONE such text has been archaeologically found to this day !

Tannaitic[Mishnaic] Hebrew gets its name from the Tanitic, which was one of the branches of the Nile at the Nile Delta in Egypt, in deference to the city of Tanis; Amoraic Hebrew gets its name from the Amurru[Amorite] dialect of Akkadu[Akkadian] which was spoken by the Babylonians.

ALL early Rabbinical literature were really in Massoretic Tiberian Hebrew.

The timeline of Rabbinical literature are "traditionally" dated thus :

Zugot = 200-B.C.-70 A.D.

Tannaim = 70-200 A.D.

Amoraim = 200-500 A.D.

Savoraim = 500-700 A.D.

Geonim = 600-1050 A.D.

Rishonim = 1050-1500 A.D.

Acharonim = 1500-Present A.D.

However, the Zugot, Tannaim, Amoraim, Savoraim Rabbinical periods have NO ARCHAEOLOGICAL TEXTS that have ever been found to this day from their reported time periods. All such existing works are much later copies and have been attributed timelines that are centuries older than they really are.

These early Rabbinical periods produced literature that could only have been written in Imperial Aramaic; Aramaic being a Syrian language that was adopted in Palestine[Philistia].

However, NONE of their Aramaic texts have EVER BEEN FOUND from the listed timelines [from 200 B.C.-925 A.D.]; existing copies of these early Rabbinical literature remain in Massoretic Tiberian Hebrew texts only.

This why the Nash Papyrus and the Dead Sea Scrolls have such significance...Even though they are really IMPERIAL ARAMIAC texts of the Old Testament from Greek translations[i.e. Septuagint or Seventy]; they are most certainly not texts in the so-called Tannaitic[Mishnaic] Hebrew.

Anyone can observe this when viewing the charts and tables of the ancient Semitic languages of Phoenician[Ancient Lebanese], and the various stages of Aramaic and its dialects.

So far, there has been NO ARCHAEOLOGICAL evidence, whatsoever, that the so-called Tannaitic[Mishnaic I] Hebrew or Amoraic[Mishnaic II] Hebrew EVER existed.

There NEVER EVER were any languages such as Ancient Hebrew[i.e. 6th Century B.C. Hebrew Ostraca] or Moabite; there are many charts and tables that misrepresent Middle Phoenician, Late Phoenician, and Middle Aramaic as "Ancient Hebrew" or Moabite. These remain colossal myths and fallacies to this very day.

Another fallacy and myth is that of the Star of David symbol, called Magen David(Shield of David) in Hebrew. This symbol did NOT date back to 6th Century B.C. as once claimed by Judaic scholars, but first appeared on the 2nd oldest Hebrew Biblical Text[Massoretic Tiberian script] called the Cairo or Leningrad Codex(dated to 1008 A.D.)...

The Holy Qur'an in Classical Arabic text PREDATES the VERY FIRST Hebrew text by 260 YEARS; Caliph Ali's calligraphed text of the Holy Qur'an dates to 660 A.D., while the very first Hebrew text--the Tanakh[Hebrew Bible or Old Testament]--dates to 920 A.D.

Caliph Ali's calligraphed text in Kufic script of the Holy Qur'an from 660 A.D., is the OLDEST existing copy of the Classical Arabic Holy Qur'an; handwritten by Caliph Ali himself on gazelle-skin parchment, bearing his personal signature and dated by him to the year 40 A.H.[660 A.D.].

Note, that the Kufic script of Kufa, Iraq was the VERY FIRST script in which the Classical Arabic Holy Qur'an was written...NOT the Hejazi scripts of Ma'il, Mashq, and Naskhi.

The Naskhi script of the Hejaz, Arabia was first developed during the 10th Century A.D., and NOT earlier; Naskh literally means "copying" in Arabic.

The pre-Islamic Arabic scripts that were used in Arabia[excluding Southern Arabia], before the additional establishment of the Kufic script in Arabia by Caliph Ali in 656 A.D., were the Ma'il[Slanting or Sloping] and the Mashq; the Ma'ili script was curved and round (muqawwar wa mudawwar), while the Mashq script was elongated and straight (mabsut wa mustaqim).

Also, these two pre-Islamic Arabic scripts evolved from the Aramaic-derived Nabataean of Urdunn[Jordan] and the cursive Arabic Musnad of Yemen; they had no points or diacritical[punctuation] marks; the Ma'il script was synonymously called the Hejazi script; the Mashq script had also originated in the Hejaz.

In pre-Islamic Arabia[excluding Southern Arabia--Yemen & Oman], the Ma'il script was favoured in the Hejaz and Madyan[Midian]; The Mashq script was favoured in the Nejd, Yamama[Qatar & U.A.E], and the island of Bahrayn[Two Seas]; both Ma'ili & Mashq scripts were equally popular in central Arabia.

Caliph Ali ibn Abu Talib was a recognized calligrapher and was fluent in all three early Arabic scripts. Included below, are Caliph Ali's calligraphed Holy Qur'an in Kufic script; Prophet Muhammad's dictated letters to Byzantine Emperor Heraclius and Bahrayni ruler Mundhir ibn Sawi, calligraphed in the Ma'il and Mashq scripts by Hazrat Ali ibn Abu Talib.

Hazrat Ali calligraphed the Ma'il script for Prophet Muhammad's letter to Heraclius; it was initially sent to Heraclius' minister in Tabuk, to be forwarded to Heraclius himself, who was stationed in Damascus at the time. For protocol, the Mashq script was calligraphed by Hazrat Ali for Prophet Muhammad's letter to Mundhir ibn Sawi; this script was prevalent in Bahrayn at that time.

The Ali Codex(Al-Mushaf Al-Ali) 660 A.D.

[Dar Al-Kutub Al-Alawiyah; Najaf, Iraq]

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The Aleppo[Halab] Codex of the Tanakh[Hebrew Bible/Old Testament]

by the Massorah/Massoretes 920 A.D. Tiberias, Palestine

180px-Aleppo_codex.jpg

180px-Aleppo_Codex_(Deut).jpg

Photographs of Prophet Muhammad's letters calligraphed by

Hazrat Ali--Downloaded Below[MUST SEE]

Nabih Muhammad Letter Handwritten by Hazrat Ali_II.doc

Nabih Muhammad Letter Handwritten by Hazrat Ali.doc

Additional Semitic Language Downloads

Imperial_Aramaic_Alphabet.pdf

Arabic_Musnad_Cursive.doc

Additional Semitic Language Charts & Tables

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post-25505-12527056160542_thumb.jpg

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Appended to my recap & summary :

The Kufic script, having been the VERY FIRST script in which the Holy Quran was documented, was done so by Caliph Ali during his Caliphate(656-661 A.D.); when the Holy Quran went from OT[oral tradition] to WT[written tradition], Caliph Ali selected the Kufic script as the proper form of writing for such a sacred recitation; as a calligrapher, he apparently found the Kufic script to his liking.

There are orthodox Muslim traditions that allege that the 1st Umayyad Caliph, Uthman ibn al-Affan had ordered 5 copies of the Holy Quran to be written down in his supposed attempt to "standardize" it in 651 A.D.; furthermore, Uthman had never been documented to have ever been a calligrapher, nor do ANY historical records document that he had EVER handwritten the Holy Quran.

There is NO GENUINE EXISTING ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE to support that ANY copies of the Holy Quran were EVER written down during Uthman's lifetime or Caliphate. None of the so-called "al-Mushaf al-Uthman" have EVER been found to this day. There are two ALLEGED copies claimed to be in "existence". One is said to be at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey and the other in Tashkent, Uzbekistan at Telyashayakh Mosque's Hast-Imam[Khazrati Imom] library.

However, BOTH alleged "Uthman" Qurans are in KUFIC script. In Uthman's lifetime(577-656 A.D.) and during his Caliphate(644-656 A.D.), THE KUFIC SCRIPT WAS NOT IN USE ANYWHERE IN THE ARABIAN PENINSULA; the Ma'il and Mashq scripts were in use in Arabia during Uthman's lifetime.

To begin with, the city of Kufa [in Mesopotamian Iraq] was not "founded" by Saad bin Nufayl Abil Waqqas at 3rd Caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab's decree. This is erroneous orthodox Muslim historicity. The original name of Kufa was Suristan City of the Sassanid Persian Middle Bih-Kavadh or Suristan province; The Arabs under Ibn Abu al-Waqqas captured it and RENAMED it Kufa; making it their military base for their intent to conquer the Mahoze[Ctesiphon-Seleucia] or Al-Medayen[The Twin Cities] from Sassanian Persia.

Identically, the city of Basra was also erroneously recorded in orthodox Muslim history as having been founded by the 2nd Caliph, Umar ibn al-Khattab, in 636 A.D.; it was in fact captured in 636 A.D. by Utbah ibn Ghazwan [one of Umar's commanders]. Basra was the Arabic adaptation of its Persian name Bassorah from later Sassanid times; the city's previous name from earlier Sassanid times was Vaheshtabad.

As for Suristan City[Kufa], it was an established settlement of Sassanid Persia long before its Arab conquest in 637 A.D. ...

The Kufic script [not the phonetic sound] was in fact derived from the Pahlavi Script which was developed by the Sassanid Persians; starting from 638 A.D., during the Caliphate of Umar ibn al-Khattab, Hejazi and Yemeni tribesmen of the Azdi, Darimi, Kindi, Nakhai, etc., settled in Kufa, Iraq. During Uthman's Caliphate, these new "Kufans" developed the Kufic script, which was clearly derived from the Sassanian Pahlavi script.

However, this new Kufic Arabic script was limited to only Kufa, Iraq; having moved the Islamic capital from Medina, Arabia to Kufa, Iraq, Caliph Ali liked the Kufic Arabic script and chose it to be the very first written form of the Holy Quran. Caliph Ali then established the Kufic Arabic script in the Arabian Peninsula. Within a century of the establishment of the Kufic script in the Islamic world, it eclipsed the Ma'ili and Mashq Arabic scripts in Arabia, both of which became obsolete. The Kufic script prevailed in the Islamic world until it was eventually eclipsed by the Hejazi Naskhi script from 11th Century A.D. onward.

In pre-Islamic Arabia[excluding Southern Arabia : Yemen & Oman], the Ma'il and Mashq Arabic scripts were known by their descriptions of muqawwar wa mudawwar[curved and round] and mabsut wa mustaqim[elongated and straight]; only after the rise of Standard Islam, were the names of Ma'il[slanting/sloping] and Mashq applied to them. The Ma'ili Arabic script was written in upright form during Prophet Muhammad's lifetime[570-632 A.D.]; after the Holy Prophet's passing, the Ma'ili Arabic script started to be written in a slant or slope; thus, giving its name of Ma'il[slanting/sloping].

Finally, when the Neo-Kufans[Arab settlers] derived their Kufic Arabic script from Pahlavi, they did not do a precise match-up of the phonetic sounds or vocalizations. They did not want to make it obvious that they had derived their newly devised Arabic script from Sassanid Persian influence. This was due to their pro-Arab pride and ego.

However, had Caliph Ali been the one to derive the Kufic Arabic script from Pahlavi, he would have most likely not really cared about their Sassanid Persian origin. For purely logical reasons, he would have precisely matched-up the phonetic sounds and vocalizations of the Kufic script with their Pahlavi roots. As a result, Standard Islamic scholarship would most probably never have abandoned the Kufic Arabic script in favour of the later Hejazi Naskhi Arabic script out of deference for Caliph Ali's establishment. The Kufic Arabic script would have continued to be in use alongside the later Hejazi Naskhi Arabic script.

Note the derivative comparison below :

Pahlavi Alphabets

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Kufi Alphabets

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Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

postscript or epilogue :

The reasons why it took the Massorah[Massoretes] or Galilean Yahudi scholars about 150 years to finalize a Judaic language which ended up being called "Hebrew", were two major hurdles.

The first hurdle was to get the various regional Jewish people widespread throughout the Near East to agree upon establishing a unified, newly invented "Jewish" language.

The second hurdle was to settle upon phonetic sounds & vocalizations and a script which would be acceptable to ALL the various Jewish Middle Easterners.

Essentially, what should have taken a decade to accomplish ended up taking a century-and-a-half to do so ...

The purpose of inventing Hebrew was to preserve the ancient monotheist[muwahidin] texts for the worlwide Jewish[Yahudi] communities at large. This led to an additional challenge which presented itself to the Massorah[Massoretes].

This challenge was which of the ancient monotheist texts, including the Greek Septuaginta[Seventy], should be included, and which ones should be excluded in the Tanakh[Hebrew Bible]...?

This took about 20 years to finalize due to much debate and contention among the Massorah[Massoretes]...These intense debates were between the Yahudi Ahbar[Doctors of Law] and the Rabbani[Jewish or Yahudi priests/rabbis]; as stated in the Holy Qur'an, these were two distinct bodies.

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Here are article excerpts on the brilliant, yet provocative and controversial Israeli professor, Shlomo Sand[Zand] :

SHLOMO SAND by Jonathan Cook

Dr Shlomo Sand argues that the idea of a Jewish nation — whose need for a safe haven was originally used to justify the founding of the state of Israel — is a myth invented little more than a century ago.

An expert on European history at Tel Aviv University, Dr Sand drew on extensive historical and archaeological research to support not only this claim but several more — all equally controversial. In addition, he argues that the Jews were never exiled from the Holy Land, that most of today's Jews have no historical connection to the land called Israel and that the only political solution to the country's conflict with the Palestinians is to abolish the Jewish state.

The success of “When and How Was the Jewish People Invented?” looks likely to be repeated around the world. A French edition, launched last month, is selling so fast that it has already had three print runs.

Translations are under way into a dozen languages, including Arabic and English. But he predicted a rough ride from the pro-Israel lobby when the book is launched by his English publisher, Verso, in the United States next year.

In contrast, he said Israelis had been, if not exactly supportive, at least curious about his argument. Tom Segev, one of the country’s leading journalists, has called the book “fascinating and challenging”.

Surprisingly, Dr Sand said, most of his academic colleagues in Israel have shied away from tackling his arguments. One exception is Israel Bartal, a professor of Jewish history at Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Writing in Haaretz, the Israeli daily newspaper, Dr Bartal made little effort to rebut Dr Sand’s claims. Paradoxically, he dedicated much of his article instead to defending his profession. He suggested that Israeli historians were not as ignorant about the invented nature of Jewish history as Dr Sand contends.

The idea for the book had come to him many years ago, Dr Sand said, but he waited until recently to start working on it. “I cannot claim to be particularly courageous in publishing the book now,” he said. “I waited until I was a full professor. There is a price to be paid in Israeli academia for expressing views of this sort.”

Dr Sand’s main argument is that until little more than a century ago, Jews thought of themselves as Jews only because they shared a common religion. At the turn of the 20th century, he said, Zionist Jews challenged this idea and started creating a national history by inventing the idea that Jews existed as a people separate from their religion.

Equally, the modern Zionist idea of Jews being obligated to return from exile to the Promised Land was entirely alien to Judaism, he added.

“Zionism changed the idea of Jerusalem. Before, the holy places were seen as places to long for, not to be lived in. For 2,000 years Jews stayed away from Jerusalem not because they could not return but because their religion forbade them from returning until the messiah came.”

The biggest surprise during his research came when he started looking at the archaeological evidence from the biblical era.

“I was not raised as a Zionist, but like all other Israelis I took it for granted that the Jews were a people living in Judea and that they were exiled by the Romans in 70 AD.

“But once I started looking at the evidence, I discovered that the kingdoms of David and Solomon were legends.

“Similarly with the exile. In fact, you can’t explain Jewishness without exile. But when I started to look for history books describing the events of this exile, I couldn’t find any. Not one.

“That was because the Romans did not exile people. In fact, Jews in Palestine were overwhelming peasants and all the evidence suggests they stayed on their lands.”

Instead, he believes an alternative theory is more plausible: the exile was a myth promoted by early Christians to recruit Jews to the new faith. “Christians wanted later generations of Jews to believe that their ancestors had been exiled as a punishment from God.”

So if there was no exile, how is it that so many Jews ended up scattered around the globe before the modern state of Israel began encouraging them to “return”?

Dr Sand said that, in the centuries immediately preceding and following the Christian era, Judaism was a proselytising religion, desperate for converts. “This is mentioned in the Roman literature of the time.”

Jews travelled to other regions seeking converts, particularly in Yemen and among the Berber tribes of North Africa. Centuries later, the people of the Khazar kingdom in what is today south Russia, would convert en masse to Judaism, becoming the genesis of the Ashkenazi Jews of central and eastern Europe.

Dr Sand pointed to the strange state of denial in which most Israelis live, noting that papers offered extensive coverage recently to the discovery of the capital of the Khazar kingdom next to the Caspian Sea.

Ynet, the website of Israel’s most popular newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, headlined the story: “Russian archaeologists find long-lost Jewish capital.” And yet none of the papers, he added, had considered the significance of this find to standard accounts of Jewish history.

One further question is prompted by Dr Sand’s account, as he himself notes: if most Jews never left the Holy Land, what became of them?

“It is not taught in Israeli schools, but most of the early Zionist leaders, including David Ben Gurion [israel's first prime minister], believed that the Palestinians were the descendants of the area’s original Jews. They believed the Jews had later converted to Islam.”

Dr Sand attributed his colleagues’ reticence to engage with him to an implicit acknowledgement by many that the whole edifice of “Jewish history” taught at Israeli universities is built like a house of cards.

The problem with the teaching of history in Israel, Dr Sand said, dates to a decision in the 1930s to separate history into two disciplines: general history and Jewish history. Jewish history was assumed to need its own field of study because Jewish experience was considered unique.

“There’s no Jewish department of politics or sociology at the universities. Only history is taught in this way, and it has allowed specialists in Jewish history to live in a very insular and conservative world where they are not touched by modern developments in historical research.

“I’ve been criticised in Israel for writing about Jewish history when European history is my specialty. But a book like this needed a historian who is familiar with the standard concepts of historical inquiry used by academia in the rest of the world.”

-----------------------------------------------------------

Shattering a 'national mythology' 0.gifBy Ofri Ilani

Of all the national heroes who have arisen from among the Jewish people over the generations, fate has not been kind to Dahia al-Kahina, a leader of the Berbers in the Aures Mountains. Although she was a proud Jewess, few Israelis have ever heard the name of this warrior-queen who, in the seventh century C.E., united a number of Berber tribes and pushed back the Muslim army that invaded North Africa. It is possible that the reason for this is that al-Kahina was the daughter of a Berber tribe that had converted to Judaism, apparently several generations before she was born, sometime around the 6th century C.E.

According to the Tel Aviv University historian, Prof. Shlomo Sand, author of "Matai ve'ech humtza ha'am hayehudi?" ("When and How the Jewish People Was Invented?"; Resling, in Hebrew), the queen's tribe and other local tribes that converted to Judaism are the main sources from which Spanish Jewry sprang. This claim that the Jews of North Africa originated in indigenous tribes that became Jewish - and not in communities exiled from Jerusalem - is just one element of the far- reaching argument set forth in Sand's new book.

In this work, the author attempts to prove that the Jews now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the Kingdom of Judea during the First and Second Temple period. Their origins, according to him, are in varied peoples that converted to Judaism during the course of history, in different corners of the Mediterranean Basin and the adjacent regions. Not only are the North African Jews for the most part descendants of pagans who converted to Judaism, but so are the Jews of Yemen (remnants of the Himyar Kingdom in the Arab Peninsula, who converted to Judaism in the fourth century) and the Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe (refugees from the Kingdom of the Khazars, who converted in the eighth century).

Unlike other "new historians" who have tried to undermine the assumptions of Zionist historiography, Sand does not content himself with going back to 1948 or to the beginnings of Zionism, but rather goes back thousands of years. He tries to prove that the Jewish people never existed as a "nation-race" with a common origin, but rather is a colorful mix of groups that at various stages in history adopted the Jewish religion. He argues that for a number of Zionist ideologues, the mythical perception of the Jews as an ancient people led to truly racist thinking: "There were times when if anyone argued that the Jews belong to a people that has gentile origins, he would be classified as an anti-Semite on the spot. Today, if anyone dares to suggest that those who are considered Jews in the world ... have never constituted and still do not constitute a people or a nation - he is immediately condemned as a hater of Israel."

According to Sand, the description of the Jews as a wandering and self-isolating nation of exiles, "who wandered across seas and continents, reached the ends of the earth and finally, with the advent of Zionism, made a U-turn and returned en masse to their orphaned homeland," is nothing but "national mythology." Like other national movements in Europe, which sought out a splendid Golden Age, through which they invented a heroic past - for example, classical Greece or the Teutonic tribes - to prove they have existed since the beginnings of history, "so, too, the first buds of Jewish nationalism blossomed in the direction of the strong light that has its source in the mythical Kingdom of David."

So when, in fact, was the Jewish people invented, in Sand's view? At a certain stage in the 19th century, intellectuals of Jewish origin in Germany, influenced by the folk character of German nationalism, took upon themselves the task of inventing a people "retrospectively," out of a thirst to create a modern Jewish people. From historian Heinrich Graetz on, Jewish historians began to draw the history of Judaism as the history of a nation that had been a kingdom, became a wandering people and ultimately turned around and went back to its birthplace.

Actually, most of your book does not deal with the invention of the Jewish people by modern Jewish nationalism, but rather with the question of where the Jews come from.

Sand: "My initial intention was to take certain kinds of modern historiographic materials and examine how they invented the 'figment' of the Jewish people. But when I began to confront the historiographic sources, I suddenly found contradictions. And then that urged me on: I started to work, without knowing where I would end up. I took primary sources and I tried to examine authors' references in the ancient period - what they wrote about conversion."

Sand, an expert on 20th-century history, has until now researched the intellectual history of modern France (in "Ha'intelektual, ha'emet vehakoah: miparashat dreyfus ve'ad milhemet hamifrats" - "Intellectuals, Truth and Power, From the Dreyfus Affair to the Gulf War"; Am Oved, in Hebrew). Unusually, for a professional historian, in his new book he deals with periods that he had never researched before, usually relying on studies that present unorthodox views of the origins of the Jews.

Experts on the history of the Jewish people say you are dealing with subjects about which you have no understanding and are basing yourself on works that you can't read in the original.

"It is true that I am an historian of France and Europe, and not of the ancient period. I knew that the moment I would start dealing with early periods like these, I would be exposed to scathing criticism by historians who specialize in those areas. But I said to myself that I can't stay just with modern historiographic material without examining the facts it describes. Had I not done this myself, it would have been necessary to have waited for an entire generation. Had I continued to deal with France, perhaps I would have been given chairs at the university and provincial glory. But I decided to relinquish the glory."

Inventing the Diaspora

"After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people remained faithful to it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom" - thus states the preamble to the Israeli Declaration of Independence. This is also the quotation that opens the third chapter of Sand's book, entitled "The Invention of the Diaspora." Sand argues that the Jewish people's exile from its land never happened.

"The supreme paradigm of exile was needed in order to construct a long-range memory in which an imagined and exiled nation-race was posited as the direct continuation of 'the people of the Bible' that preceded it," Sand explains. Under the influence of other historians who have dealt with the same issue in recent years, he argues that the exile of the Jewish people is originally a Christian myth that depicted that event as divine punishment imposed on the Jews for having rejected the Christian gospel.

"I started looking in research studies about the exile from the land - a constitutive event in Jewish history, almost like the Holocaust. But to my astonishment I discovered that it has no literature. The reason is that no one exiled the people of the country. The Romans did not exile peoples and they could not have done so even if they had wanted to. They did not have trains and trucks to deport entire populations. That kind of logistics did not exist until the 20th century. From this, in effect, the whole book was born: in the realization that Judaic society was not dispersed and was not exiled."

If the people was not exiled, are you saying that in fact the real descendants of the inhabitants of the Kingdom of Judah are the Palestinians?

"No population remains pure over a period of thousands of years. But the chances that the Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Judaic people are much greater than the chances that you or I are its descendents. The first Zionists, up until the Arab Revolt [1936-9], knew that there had been no exiling, and that the Palestinians were descended from the inhabitants of the land. They knew that farmers don't leave until they are expelled. Even Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, the second president of the State of Israel, wrote in 1929 that, 'the vast majority of the peasant farmers do not have their origins in the Arab conquerors, but rather, before then, in the Jewish farmers who were numerous and a majority in the building of the land.'"

And how did millions of Jews appear around the Mediterranean Sea?

"The people did not spread, but the Jewish religion spread. Judaism was a converting religion. Contrary to popular opinion, in early Judaism there was a great thirst to convert others. The Hasmoneans were the first to begin to produce large numbers of Jews through mass conversion, under the influence of Hellenism. The conversions between the Hasmonean Revolt and Bar Kochba's rebellion are what prepared the ground for the subsequent, wide-spread dissemination of Christianity. After the victory of Christianity in the fourth century, the momentum of conversion was stopped in the Christian world, and there was a steep drop in the number of Jews. Presumably many of the Jews who appeared around the Mediterranean became Christians. But then Judaism started to permeate other regions - pagan regions, for example, such as Yemen and North Africa. Had Judaism not continued to advance at that stage and had it not continued to convert people in the pagan world, we would have remained a completely marginal religion, if we survived at all."

How did you come to the conclusion that the Jews of North Africa were originally Berbers who converted?

"I asked myself how such large Jewish communities appeared in Spain. And then I saw that Tariq ibn Ziyad, the supreme commander of the Muslims who conquered Spain, was a Berber, and most of his soldiers were Berbers. Dahia al-Kahina's Jewish Berber kingdom had been defeated only 15 years earlier. And the truth is there are a number of Christian sources that say many of the conquerors of Spain were Jewish converts. The deep-rooted source of the large Jewish community in Spain was those Berber soldiers who converted to Judaism."

Sand argues that the most crucial demographic addition to the Jewish population of the world came in the wake of the conversion of the kingdom of Khazaria - a huge empire that arose in the Middle Ages on the steppes along the Volga River, which at its height ruled over an area that stretched from the Georgia of today to Kiev. In the eighth century, the kings of the Khazars adopted the Jewish religion and made Hebrew the written language of the kingdom. From the 10th century the kingdom weakened; in the 13th century is was utterly defeated by Mongol invaders, and the fate of its Jewish inhabitants remains unclear.

Sand revives the hypothesis, which was already suggested by historians in the 19th and 20th centuries, according to which the Judaized Khazars constituted the main origins of the Jewish communities in Eastern Europe.

"At the beginning of the 20th century there is a tremendous concentration of Jews in Eastern Europe - three million Jews in Poland alone," he says. "The Zionist historiography claims that their origins are in the earlier Jewish community in Germany, but they do not succeed in explaining how a small number of Jews who came from Mainz and Worms could have founded the Yiddish people of Eastern Europe. The Jews of Eastern Europe are a mixture of Khazars and Slavs who were pushed eastward."

'Degree of perversion'

If the Jews of Eastern Europe did not come from Germany, why did they speak Yiddish, which is a Germanic language?

"The Jews were a class of people dependent on the German bourgeoisie in the East, and thus they adopted German words. Here I base myself on the research of linguist Paul Wechsler of Tel Aviv University, who has demonstrated that there is no etymological connection between the German Jewish language of the Middle Ages and Yiddish. As far back as 1828, the Ribal (Rabbi Isaac Ber Levinson) said that the ancient language of the Jews was not Yiddish. Even Ben Zion Dinur, the father of Israeli historiography, was not hesitant about describing the Khazars as the origin of the Jews in Eastern Europe, and describes Khazaria as 'the mother of the diasporas' in Eastern Europe. But more or less since 1967, anyone who talks about the Khazars as the ancestors of the Jews of Eastern Europe is considered naive and moonstruck."

Why do you think the idea of the Khazar origins is so threatening?

"It is clear that the fear is of an undermining of the historic right to the land. The revelation that the Jews are not from Judea would ostensibly knock the legitimacy for our being here out from under us. Since the beginning of the period of decolonization, settlers have no longer been able to say simply: 'We came, we won and now we are here' the way the Americans, the whites in South Africa and the Australians said. There is a very deep fear that doubt will be cast on our right to exist."

Is there no justification for this fear?

"No. I don't think that the historical myth of the exile and the wanderings is the source of the legitimization for me being here, and therefore I don't mind believing that I am Khazar in my origins. I am not afraid of the undermining of our existence, because I think that the character of the State of Israel undermines it in a much more serious way. What would constitute the basis for our existence here is not mythological historical right, but rather would be for us to start to establish an open society here of all Israeli citizens."

In effect you are saying that there is no such thing as a Jewish people.

"I don't recognize an international people. I recognize 'the Yiddish people' that existed in Eastern Europe, which though it is not a nation can be seen as a Yiddishist civilization with a modern popular culture. I think that Jewish nationalism grew up in the context of this 'Yiddish people.' I also recognize the existence of an Israeli people, and do not deny its right to sovereignty. But Zionism and also Arab nationalism over the years are not prepared to recognize it.

"From the perspective of Zionism, this country does not belong to its citizens, but rather to the Jewish people. I recognize one definition of a nation: a group of people that wants to live in sovereignty over itself. But most of the Jews in the world have no desire to live in the State of Israel, even though nothing is preventing them from doing so. Therefore, they cannot be seen as a nation."

What is so dangerous about Jews imagining that they belong to one people? Why is this bad?

"In the Israeli discourse about roots there is a degree of perversion. This is an ethnocentric, biological, genetic discourse. But Israel has no existence as a Jewish state: If Israel does not develop and become an open, multicultural society we will have a Kosovo in the Galilee. The consciousness concerning the right to this place must be more flexible and varied, and if I have contributed with my book to the likelihood that I and my children will be able to live with the others here in this country in a more egalitarian situation - I will have done my bit.

"We must begin to work hard to transform our place into an Israeli republic where ethnic origin, as well as faith, will not be relevant in the eyes of the law. Anyone who is acquainted with the young elites of the Israeli Arab community can see that they will not agree to live in a country that declares it is not theirs. If I were a Palestinian I would rebel against a state like that, but even as an Israeli I am rebelling against it."

The question is whether for those conclusions you had to go as far as the Kingdom of the Khazars.

"I am not hiding the fact that it is very distressing for me to live in a society in which the nationalist principles that guide it are dangerous, and that this distress has served as a motive in my work. I am a citizen of this country, but I am also a historian and as a historian it is my duty to write history and examine texts. This is what I have done."

If the myth of Zionism is one of the Jewish people that returned to its land from exile, what will be the myth of the country you envision?

"To my mind, a myth about the future is better than introverted mythologies of the past. For the Americans, and today for the Europeans as well, what justifies the existence of the nation is a future promise of an open, progressive and prosperous society. The Israeli materials do exist, but it is necessary to add, for example, pan-Israeli holidays. To decrease the number of memorial days a bit and to add days that are dedicated to the future. But also, for example, to add an hour in memory of the Nakba [literally, the "catastrophe" - the Palestinian term for what happened when Israel was established], between Memorial Day and Independence Day."0.gif

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Addendum To Previous Post :

On a purely historical note, my only disagreement with Dr. Shlomo Sand is his statement that the Khazars made Hebrew their written language during the 8th Century A.D. ...

From this Wiki excerpt on Dr. Shlomo Sand :

Shlmo's theory that Palestinians are of old Jewish origin can be explained by the common linguistic similarities between Rural Palestinian Arabic and ancient spoken Hebrew: See and read the "influence of other languages section". Likewise according the Jerusalem post, about 90% of Palestinians can trace their heritage to a Jewish ancestor.

He further argues that many of the Jews converted to Islam following the Arab conquest, and were assimilated among the conquerors. He concludes that the progenitors of the Palestinian Arabs were Jews.

--The emboldened statement of the 1st italicised sub-paragraph, inevitably and ultimately evokes the matching comparison between the Imperial & Late Aramaic language and script and its direct derivative or eventual imitation--Massoretic Tiberian Hebrew...

Aside from archaeological hard evidence about the Massoretic timeline of when Hebrew was really invented [750-900 A.D.], here are additional article excerpts as to why :

Scholar claims to find medieval Jewish capital

By MANSUR MIROVALEV, Associated Press Writer Sat Sep 20, 2:13 PM ET

MOSCOW – A Russian archaeologist says he has found the lost capital of the Khazars, a powerful nation that adopted Judaism as its official religion more than 1,000 years ago, only to disappear leaving little trace of its culture.

Dmitry Vasilyev, a professor at Astrakhan State University, said his nine-year excavation near the Caspian Sea has finally unearthed the foundations of a triangular fortress of flamed brick, along with modest yurt-shaped dwellings, and he believes these are part of what was once Itil, the Khazar capital.

By law Khazars could use flamed bricks only in the capital, Vasilyev said. The general location of the city on the Silk Road was confirmed in medieval chronicles by Arab, Jewish and European authors.

"The discovery of the capital of Eastern Europe's first feudal state is of great significance," he told The Associated Press. "We should view it as part of Russian history."

Kevin Brook, the American author of "The Jews of Khazaria," e-mailed Wednesday that he has followed the Itil dig over the years, and even though it has yielded no Jewish artifacts, "Now I'm as confident as the archaeological team is that they've truly found the long-lost city,

The Khazars were a Turkic tribe that roamed the steppes from Northern China to the Black Sea. Between the 7th and 10th centuries they conquered huge swaths of what is now southern Russia and Ukraine, the Caucasus Mountains and Central Asia as far as the Aral Sea.

Itil, about 800 miles south of Moscow, had a population of up to 60,000 and occupied 0.8 square miles of marshy plains southwest of the Russian Caspian Sea port of Astrakhan, Vasilyev said.

It lay at a major junction of the Silk Road, the trade route between Europe and China, which "helped Khazars amass giant profits," he said.

The Khazar empire was once a regional superpower, and Vasilyev said his team has found "luxurious collections" of well-preserved ceramics that help identify cultural ties of the Khazar state with Europe, the Byzantine Empire and even Northern Africa. They also found armor, wooden kitchenware, glass lamps and cups, jewelry and vessels for transporting precious balms dating back to the eighth and ninth centuries, he said.

But a scholar in Israel, while calling the excavations interesting, said the challenge was to find Khazar inscriptions.

"If they found a few buildings, or remains of buildings, that's interesting but does not make a big difference," said Dr. Simon Kraiz, an expert on Eastern European Jewry at Haifa University. "If they found Khazar writings, that would be very important."

Vasilyev says no Jewish artifacts have been found at the site, and in general, most of what is known about the Khazars comes from chroniclers from other, sometimes competing cultures and empires.

"We know a lot about them, and yet we know almost nothing: Jews wrote about them, and so did Russians, Georgians, and Armenians, to name a few," said Kraiz. "But from the Khazars themselves we have nearly nothing."

The Khazars' ruling dynasty and nobility converted to Judaism sometime in the 8th or 9th centuries. Vasilyev said the limited number of Jewish religious artifacts such as mezuzas and Stars of David found at other Khazar sites prove that ordinary Khazars preferred traditional beliefs such as shamanism, or newly introduced religions including Islam.

Yevgeny Satanovsky, director of the Middle Eastern Institute in Moscow, said he believes the Khazar elite chose Judaism out of political expediency — to remain independent of neighboring Muslim and Christian states. "They embraced Judaism because they wanted to remain neutral, like Switzerland these days," he said.

In particular, he said, the Khazars opposed the Arab advance into the Caucasus Mountains and were instrumental in containing a Muslim push toward eastern Europe. He compared their role in eastern Europe to that of the French knights who defeated Arab forces at the Battle of Tours in France in 732.

The Khazars succeeded in holding off the Arabs, but a young, expanding Russian state vanquished the Khazar empire in the late 10th century. Medieval Russian epic poems mention Russian warriors fighting the "Jewish Giant."

"In many ways, Russia is a successor of the Khazar state," Vasilyev said.

He said his dig revealed traces of a large fire that was probably caused by the Russian conquest. He said Itil was rebuilt following the fall of the Khazar empire, when ethnic Khazars were slowly assimilated by Turkic-speaking tribes, Tatars and Mongols, who inhabited the city until it was flooded by the rising Caspian Sea around the 14th century.

The study of the Khazar empire was discouraged in the Soviet Union. The dictator Josef Stalin, in particular, detested the idea that a Jewish empire had come before Russia's own. He ordered references to Khazar history removed from textbooks because they "disproved his theory of Russian statehood," Satanovsky said.

Only now are Russian scholars free to explore Khazar culture. The Itil excavations have been sponsored by the Russian-Jewish Congress, a nonprofit organization that supports cultural projects in Russia.

"Khazar studies are just beginning," Satanovsky said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russian archaeologists find long-lost Jewish capital

Long-lost capital of Khazar kingdom unearthed in southern Russia; finding said to be of immense importance AFP Published: 09.05.08, 07:24 / Israel Jewish Scene

Russian archaeologists said Wednesday that they had found the long-lost capital of the Khazar kingdom in southern Russia, a breakthrough for research on the ancient Jewish state.

"This is a hugely important discovery," expedition organizer Dmitry Vasilyev, of the Astrakhan State University, told AFP after returning from excavations near the village of Samosdelka, just north of the Caspian Sea.

"We can now shed light on one of the most intriguing mysteries of that period – how the Khazars actually lived. We know very little about the Khazars – about their traditions, their funerary rites, their culture," he said.

The city was the capital of the Khazars, semi-nomadic Turkic peoples who adopted Judaism as a state religion, from between the eighth and the 10th centuries, when it was captured and sacked by the rulers of ancient Russia.

At its height, the Khazar state and its tributaries controlled much of what is now southern Russia, western Kazakhstan, eastern Ukraine, Azerbaijan and large parts of Russia's North Caucasus region.

The capital is referred to as Itil in Arab chronicles, but Vasilyev said the word may actually have been used to refer to the Volga River on which the city was founded or to the surrounding river delta region.

Itil was said to be a multi-ethnic place with houses of worship and judges for Christians, Jews, Muslims and pagans. Its remains have until now never been identified and were said to have been washed away by the Caspian Sea.

Archaeologists have been excavating in the area if Samosdelka for the past nine years but have only now collected enough material evidence to back their thesis, including the remains of an ancient brick fortress, he added.

"Within the fortress, we have found huts similar to yurts, which are characteristics of Khazar cities… The fortress had a triangular shape and was made with bricks. It's another argument that this was no ordinary city."

Around 10 university archaeologists and some 50 students took part in excavations in the region this summer, which are partly financed by the Jewish University in Moscow and the Russian Jewish Congress.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Jack Otto's article :

In the book The Thirteenth Tribe, Ashkenazi Jew Arthur Koestler documented the history of the Khazars.

The Khazars were a Turkic people who originated in Central Asia. The Khazar empire is located north of the Caucasus mountains region.

khzar-empire.jpg?w=500&h=330

This book traces the history of the ancient Khazar Empire, a major but almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe, which in A.D. 740 converted to Judaism. Khazaria, a conglomerate of Aryan Turkish tribes, was finally wiped out by the forces of Genghis Khan, but evidence indicates that the Khazars themselves migrated to Poland and formed the cradle of Western (Ashkenazim) Jewry…

The Khazars' sway extended from the Black sea to the Caspian, from the Caucasus to the Volga, and they were instrumental in stopping the Muslim onslaught against Byzantium, the eastern jaw of the gigantic pincer movement that in the West swept across northern Africa and into Spain.

Thereafter the Khazars found themselves in a precarious position between the two major world powers: the Eastern Roman Empire in Byzantium and the triumphant followers of Mohammed. As Arthur Koestler points out, the Khazars were the Third World of their day, and they chose a surprising method of resisting both the Western pressure to become Christian and the Eastern to adopt Islam. Rejecting both, they converted to Judaism.

The second part of Mr. Koestler's book deals with the Khazar migration to Polish and Lithuanian territories, caused by the Mongol onslaught, and their impact on the racial composition and social heritage of modern Jewry. He produces a large body of meticulously detailed research in support of a theory that sounds all the more convincing for the restraint with which it is advanced.

Mr. Koestler concludes: "The evidence presented in the previous chapters adds up to a strong case in favour of those modern historians – whether Austrian, Israeli or Polish – who, independently from each other, have argued that the bulk of modern Jewry is not of Palestinian, but of Caucasian origin. The mainstream of Jewish migrations did not flow from the Mediterranean across France and Germany to the east and then back again. The stream moved in a consistently westerly direction, from the Caucasus through the Ukraine into Poland and thence into Central Europe. When that unprecedented mass settlement in Poland came into being, there were simply not enough Jews around in the west to account for it, while in the east a whole nation was on the move to new frontiers" ( page 179, page 180).

"The Jews of our times fall into two main divisions: Sephardim and Ashkenazim. The Sephardim are descendants of the Jews who since antiquity had lived in Spain (in Hebrew Sepharad) until they were expelled at the end of the fifteenth century and settled in the countries bordering the Mediterranean, the Balkans, and to a lesser extent in Western Europe. They spoke a Spanish-Hebrew dialect, Ladino, and preserved their own traditions and religious rites. In the 1960s, the number of Sephardim was estimated at 500,000.

The Ashkenazim, at the same period, numbered about eleven million. Thus, in common parlance, Jew is practically synonymous with Ashkenazi Jew."

In Mr. Koestler's own words, "The story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past, begins to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated."

As expected, The Thirteenth Tribe caused a stir when published in 1976, since it demolishes ancient racial and ethnic dogmas…At the height of the controversy in 1983, the lifeless bodies of Arthur Koestler and his wife were found in their London home. Despite significant inconsistencies, the police ruled their death a suicide…

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Karl Krokar's article review of Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe :

This book is dated but is still a masterpiece also because the subject matter is (fortunately) presented in a popularized, non-academic fashion. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in getting closer to the truth regarding the origin of the vast majority of 'Jews' in the world today. These issues are however politically sensitive and this inevitably results in controversy.

The commonly available theory of the origin of the Ashkenazis, or East-European Jews, is the Renanian Theory (see e.g. Wikipedia). Namely, the Ashkenazis would descend from refugees of Crusade- and Black-Death-time persecutions of 'authentic' Jews from western Germany who sought a new life in faraway Poland. However, this theory does not hold to anthropomorphic considerations, considerations of numbers of refugees and size of ensuing communities in the East and, most importantly, to a lingustic analysis of the Ashkenazi Yiddish language (which points rather to a Southeast-Germany, Slavic and Turkic origin of that idiom). The standard theory also does not explain most of the peculiar customs and surnames of the Ashkenazis and their historical and economical development in continuous conflict with the populace of the host countries. Koestler, following an earlier proposal by Hugo von Kutschera (1910) - but also in accordance with Jewish Encyclopedia pre-1917 articles - rekindles the Khazar Theory of the Ashkenazi origins in this book.

Potential readers can follow the existent reviews to learn about the details, so it suffices to state that according to this theory the bulk of the Ashkenazis would be the descendants of a Turkic tribe (the medieval Khazars) who at the end of the first millenium held an important (and little mentioned) empire in Southern Russia and converted en masse to (Rabbinic) Judaism for political and commercial convenience. The empire was however ephimeral and further invasions, both from the early Russians and from newcomer Turko-Mongol tribes from Central Asia, swept the Jewish Khazars away from history (some scholars say BECAUSE of their conversion to Judaism).

But did the new converts really disappear? Koestler proposes not, that these people in fact eventually turned into the Ashkenazis of Poland-Lithuania, Hungary, the Ukraine, Russia and even of Germany and Austria. Later, these 'Jews' moved to France, England, the USA, Israel, the world over. So, are the great majority of Jews really akin to the people of the Bible?

Opponents of the Khazar Theory claim the Jewish Khazars disappeared from history due to the onslaught of Kievian Rus' and of tribes from the East: Pechenegs, Kumans (Kipchaks) and Mongols. Strange, because cartographers of Venice Polo Family's travels to Central Asia report a 'Gazaria' and a 'Cumania' in existence around 1250 after the Mongol invasions. The Pope's envoy to the mongol court, Giovanni da Piano Carpini, reported encountering a Jewish tribe among the constellation of peoples associated with the Mongols. Genoese traders knew the Crimea peninsula with the name 'Gaziria' well into the 1350s. Indeed, the last Jewish Khazars left the Crimea (Krym in Russian) as Karaim during imperial Russian control of the region. As others have pointed out, the geographic contours of the Jewish Pale of Settelments under Russian imperial rule overlap significantly the contours of the reduced Khazarian province after the Mongols (Gazaria).

So what is more natural than these Jewish Gaziri turning into the Ashkenazis? That is the shocking thesis of the Von Kutschera-Koestler theory. Indeed, why only the Jewish Khazars ought to have disappeared? All of their imperial confederate peoples still live on: the Magyars turned into the Hungarians (taking with them the Judaic Kabars); the Bulghars turned into the (Danubian) Bulgarians and the Volga Bulghars (now Bashkiri, Chuvashi, ...); the Kumans turned into Kipchaki in the East and then Cumani (Kun) in the West (playing a role in the formation of modern Romania and Hungary). Take the Alans(also allied to the Khazars): have they also disappeared? They turned into the Alamanni (a mixture of Alans and germanic southwestern tribes), into the modern Catalans (Goth-Alans) and survive the ancient 'As' people (as known to the Persians) in loco as modern Ossetians.

Likewise, the Khazars did not disappear. Koestler explains: they were divided into Ak[White]-Khazars (more sedentary castes) and Kara[Black]-Khazars (more nomadic ones, warrior castes). The first converted and eventually turned into the Ashkenazis, the second group remained nomadic. Together with other nomadic groups from the Kipchaks and the Bulghars they eventually formed those former mercenaries of the steppes called Kazakhi in Russian: the Cossacks! These accepted slavic fugitives from medieval serfdom in their midst and thus turned orthodox Christian, becoming the scourge of the Ashkenazis many times over and - peculiarly - staunch supporters of the Tzars. The steppes of Eurasia are the strangest place on Earth and reserve us peculiar surprises, so why not Jewish Turks? As the reader will learn, some of the Kipchak and some of the Seljuk Turks also converted to Judaism in former times, forming a base for Jews in Romania and in modern Turkey.

More recent objections to the Khazar Theory come from modern genetic research, as some reviewers have rebuked. They jump to rushed conclusions. As some experts have remarked, sample populations in these studies were small and not randomly selected, and thus the results may not be statistically significant. We may never know what percentages of 'Semitic blood' and of 'Turanic blood' the Ashkenazis do carry, and the question is ill-founded since we shall never be able to genetically test vastly mixed populations that moved their settlement regions sometimes many times over. Indeed one should test not only Ashkenazis, Sephardis and their host populations, but also true accepted descendants of the Khazar, Kuman and Seljuk Turks. Until this is done, these genetic studies are meaningless even when their statistical basis is improved.

Not surprisingly the conclusions of these studies are simplistic and in clear contradiction with each other: first the 'few founding middle-eastern fathers' scenario, then a 'communities formed by unions between Jewish men and local women' scenario, more recently the 4-women (!) scenario: 'the Ashkenazi population as descended matrilineally from just four women, likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool originating in the Near East in the first and second centuries CE'. It's hard to believe such hasty conclusions drawn from studies on statistically restricted (and ethnically selected) population samples. Has the genetic approach been tested on accepted, uncontroversial situations?

The Khazar Theory is important and very well described in Koestler's book. It's important not only in the context of Israel's founding myths (which however Koestler duly considers), but as a unique key to understanding Eastern Europe's (and the world's) medieval and modern history.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The most crucial point to be made from Karl Krokar's review is that all the previous tribes such as the Magyars, Bulghars, Alans, Kumans, etc., evolved into European nations. But NOT the Khazars ? Why ? Because all those others were Christians or became Christians. The Khazars remained Jewish. And consequently they were not afforded the same geographic piece of Eastern or Western Europe. The Khazars were forced to assimilate with the various nations of Christian Eastern & Western Europe. They evolved into Ashkenazi[European] Jews. This is why the eventual and inevitable thirst and hunger grew among the Ashkenazi Jews[aka Khazars] to have a JEWISH STATE or their own nation. A nation which Christian Europe DENIED them. The desire for a Jewish homeland formulated a half-century before the rise of Nazism in the ideology and movement known as "ZIONISM". This Jewish homeland culminated in the formation of the State of Israel.

For extensive general information on the history of the Turkic Khazars visit the provided Wikipedia weblink :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars

Keep in mind that NOT ALL the collected information is ACCURATE or even CORRECT ...

One glaring ILLOGIC is the concept that there is such a thing as a "Jewish" Y Chromosome that actually exists within ALL THE WORLD'S JEWS...Irrespective of their RACE, ETHNICITY, COLOUR, etc...

According to this incomprehensible HYPOTHESIS, Jewish peoples of global nationalities such as Imazighen["Berbers"]; Ethiopian; Kurdish; Roman; Greek; Yemenite; Arabian; Levantine; Egyptian; Ashkenazim[European & Russian]; etc., ARE ALL OF "JEWISH" BLOOD WITH "JEWISH" Y CHROMOSOMES !

But somehow, NONE of the other population of the world share this characteristic...

The Christian and/or Muslim Ethiopians; Imazighen["Berbers"]; Kurds; Romans; Greeks; Arabians; Levantines; Egyptians; Yemenites; White & Ethnic Russians; Eastern & Western Europeans; etc., do not have this "Jewish" Y chromosome...

I am wondering what exactly this "Jewish" Y chromosome looks like under a microscopic lense ?

The Magen David [star of David] ???

The Human Y-Chromosome DNA Haplogroups that are the subject of our particular focus are :

Haplogroup J1

Associated with Northeast Caucasian peoples in Dagestan; Semitic peoples in Mesopotamia[iraq]; the indigenous peoples of the Levant[syria-Lebanon-Palestine-Jordan]; the Arabian Peninsula; Ethiopia; indigenous peoples of North Africa[imazighen/Berbers]; Mizrahim & Sephardim Jews.

Haplogroup J2

Found mainly in the Mediterranean basin (esp. Italy, Greece, the Balkans, Turkey); Georgia; the Levant(Ashkenazim Jews/Khazars).

It is clearly evident that Israeli Ashkenazi Jews belong to a different human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup than native Middle Easterners.

There is NO POSSIBLE way Ashkenazi Jews could be biological or genealogical descendants of patriarchal anbiya(announcers) Ibrahim[Abraham]; Ishaq[isaac]; Yaqub[Jacob]; Yusuf[Joseph]; Musa[Moses]; Harun[Aaron]; Talut[saul]; Daud[David]; Sulayman[solomon]; etc.

The ground-breaking Polish-Israeli Prof. Shlomo Sand is correct ...

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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I mean this in the gentlest possible way, but: you have to distinguish between conspiracy theories and peer-reviewed scientific literature.

I also wonder why some people on this web site on the one hand have an almost Nuremberg-esque fascination with Jewish genetics, and on the other hand seem to revel in the entirely false notion that you can't convert to Judaism.

At any rate, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew#Genetic_studies for a general summary of scientific research on this topic.

For those too lazy to click, here's an excerpt:

-------------

Genetic studies indicate various lineages found in modern Jewish populations, however, most of these populations share a lineage in common, traceable to an ancient population that underwent geographic branching and subsequent independent evolutions.[56] While DNA tests have demonstrated inter-marriage in all of the various Jewish ethnic divisions over the last 3,000 years, it was substantially less than in other populations.[57] The findings lend support to traditional Jewish accounts accrediting their founding to exiled Israelite populations, and counters theories that many or most of the world's Jewish populations were founded entirely by local populations that adopted the Jewish faith, devoid of any actual Israelite genetic input.[57][58]

DNA analysis further determined that modern Jews of the priesthood tribe—"Kohanim"—share an ancestor dating back about 3,000 years.[59] This result is consistent for all Jewish populations around the world.[59] The researchers estimated that the most recent common ancestor of modern Kohanim lived between 1000 BCE (roughly the time of the Biblical Exodus) and 586 BCE, when the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple.[60] They found similar results analyzing DNA from Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews.[60] The scientists estimated the date of the original priest based on genetic mutations, which indicated that the priest lived roughly 106 generations ago, between 2,650 and 3,180 years ago depending whether one counts a generation as 25 or 30 years.[60]

Although individual and groups of converts to Judaism have historically been absorbed into contemporary Jewish populations — in the Khazars' case, absorbed into the Ashkenazim — it is unlikely that they formed a large percentage of the ancestors of modern Jewish groups, and much less that they represented their genesis as Jewish communities.[61]

Male lineages: Y chromosomal DNA

A study published by the National Academy of Sciences found that "the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population", and suggested that "most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora".[56] Researchers expressed surprise at the remarkable genetic uniformity they found among modern Jews, no matter where the diaspora has become dispersed around the world.[56]

Other Y-chromosome findings show that the world's Jewish communities are closely related to Syrians and Palestinians.[59] The authors of this specific study wrote that "the extremely close affinity of Jewish and non-Jewish Middle Eastern populations observed ... supports the hypothesis of a common Middle Eastern origin".[59] According to another study of the same year, more than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men (inhabitants of Israel and the territories only) whose DNA was studied inherited their Y-chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. The results are consistent with the Biblical account of Jews and Arabs having a common ancestor. About two-thirds of Israeli Arabs and Arabs in the territories and a similar proportion of Israeli Jews are the descendants of at least three common ancestors who lived in the Middle East in the Neolithic period. However, the Palestinian Arab clade includes two Arab modal haplotypes which are found at only very low frequency among Jews, reflecting divergence and/or large scale admixture from non-local populations to the Palestinians. [62]

Points in which Jewish groups differ is largely in the source and proportion of genetic contribution from host populations.[63][64] For example, Teimanim differ from other Mizrahim, as well as from Ashkenazim, in the proportion of sub-Saharan African gene types which have entered their gene pools.[63] Among Yemenites, the average stands at 35% lineages within the past 3,000 years.[63] Yemenite Jews, as a traditionally Arabic-speaking community of local Yemenite and Israelite ancestries,[64] are included within the findings, though they average a quarter of the frequency of the non-Jewish Yemenite sample.[63] The proportion of male indigenous European genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to around 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, and a total admixture estimate "very similar to Motulsky's average estimate of 12.5%."[56] More recent study estimates an even lower European male contribution, and that only 5%–8% of the Ashkenazi gene pool is of European origin.[56]

Female lineages: Mitochondrial DNA

Before 2006, geneticists largely attributed the genesis of most of the world's Jewish populations to founding acts by males who migrated from the Middle East and "by the women from each local population whom they took as wives and converted to Judaism." However, more recent findings of studies of maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA, at least in Ashkenazi Jews, has lead to a review of this archetype.[65]

Research in Ashkenazi Jews has suggested that, in addition to Israelite male and local female founders, significant female founder ancestry might also derive from the Middle East. [65] In addition, Behar 2006 suggested that the rest of Ashkenazi mtDNA is originated from about 150 women, most of those were probably of Middle Eastern origin.[66]

In Behar 2006 [66] the control (hypervariable) region of Ashkenazi mitochondrial DNA, mtDNA, from a previous study was expanded. The samples fell into thirty-seven major haplogroups. The authors showed Ashkenazi Jewish communities belong to the same haplogroups as their host (non-Jewish) European communities, with only small deviations in frequency. Research in 2008 added populations from the exile of Spanish Jews and other diaspora groups.[67]

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DNA analysis further determined that modern Jews of the priesthood tribe—"Kohanim"—share an ancestor dating back about 3,000 years.[59] This result is consistent for all Jewish populations around the world.[59] The researchers estimated that the most recent common ancestor of modern Kohanim lived between 1000 BCE (roughly the time of the Biblical Exodus) and 586 BCE, when the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple.[60] They found similar results analyzing DNA from Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews.[60] The scientists estimated the date of the original priest based on genetic mutations, which indicated that the priest lived roughly 106 generations ago, between 2,650 and 3,180 years ago depending whether one counts a generation as 25 or 30 years.[60]

Salam[shalom]...

How exactly are DNA tests done on the "ancestors of Kohanim tribal Jews" dating back 3000 years ago ?

Through time travel ?

Unlike ancient Egyptian mummies that can be tested for DNA, there are no BODIES of those so-called "ancient Jews" to test and look for the Kohan/Cohen genes...

Take for example, the Afrocentric THEORY that ancient Egyptians were Negroid...

Inspite of ALL THE MUMMIES OF PHARAOHS, ROYALTY, & DIGNITARIES THAT ARE CLEARLY VISIBLE AS NOT BEING BLACK...

Yet, a large population of the world's black[negroid] population are utterly convinced that the ancient Egyptians were Black Africans...

Also, Ashkenazi and Mizrahi/Sephardi DO NOT belong to the same haplogroup...

As Prof. Shlomo Sand points out, what is WRONG with the very likely probability of Ashkenazi Jews being descended from the once flourishing Khazars ?

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir

[For HE Hath Power Over All Things]

Edited by Al-Afza

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In Behar 2006 [66] the control (hypervariable) region of Ashkenazi mitochondrial DNA, mtDNA, from a previous study was expanded. The samples fell into thirty-seven major haplogroups. The authors showed Ashkenazi Jewish communities belong to the same haplogroups as their host (non-Jewish) European communities, with only small deviations in frequency. Research in 2008 added populations from the exile of Spanish Jews and other diaspora groups.[67]

Salam[shalom]...

Now this piece seems incongruous and inconsistent with all the earlier paragraphs that had been posted...

Now what about those "host (non-Jewish) Europeans" ?

Why would they belong to the same haplogroups as Ashkenazi Jews ?

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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I mean this in the gentlest possible way, but: you have to distinguish between conspiracy theories and peer-reviewed scientific literature.

I also wonder why some people on this web site on the one hand have an almost Nuremberg-esque fascination with Jewish genetics, and on the other hand seem to revel in the entirely false notion that you can't convert to Judaism.

Salam[shalom]...

Now why would respected author and Ashkenazi Jew, the late Arthur Koestler, and contemporary Israeli professor and fellow Ashkenazi Jew, Dr. Shlomo Sand OFFER CONSPIRACY THEORIES to the world ?

Dr. Sand has nothing to gain as an Ashkenazi and Israeli citizen and potentially EVERYTHING to lose...

What would be his motivation to present his monumental research ?

Dr. Sand has incredible COURAGE to bring forth detailed research to present his findings...And along with Stormin' Norman Gary Finkelstein, has great courage to present factual perspectives amidst potentially harmful backlash...

I have no false notions that you cannot convert to Judaism...As I know for a fact that being "Jewish" or "Christian" or "Muslim" means at some point WE WERE ALL CONVERTS. There is no "Jewish" race...Never was. It has always been a religion, the same as Christianity and Standard Islam. That was my whole point in bringing up the factor of genetics...

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Other Y-chromosome findings show that the world's Jewish communities are closely related to Syrians and Palestinians.[59] The authors of this specific study wrote that "the extremely close affinity of Jewish and non-Jewish Middle Eastern populations observed ... supports the hypothesis of a common Middle Eastern origin".[59] According to another study of the same year, more than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men (inhabitants of Israel and the territories only) whose DNA was studied inherited their Y-chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. The results are consistent with the Biblical account of Jews and Arabs having a common ancestor. About two-thirds of Israeli Arabs and Arabs in the territories and a similar proportion of Israeli Jews are the descendants of at least three common ancestors who lived in the Middle East in the Neolithic period. However, the Palestinian Arab clade includes two Arab modal haplotypes which are found at only very low frequency among Jews, reflecting divergence and/or large scale admixture from non-local populations to the Palestinians. [62]

Salam[shalom]...

This HYPOTHESIS has been debunked.

An abstract from Ashkenazi geneticists Arthur Steinberg and Batsheva Bonné-Tamir:

Human Genetics_

Volume 55, Number 3 / September, 1980

Pages 391-395

Publisher: Springer Berlin / Heidelberg

Extract:

Arthur G. Steinberg and Batsheva Bonné-Tamir

(1) Department of Biology, Case Western Reserve University,

44106 Cleveland, OH, USA

(2) Department of Human Genetics, Sackler School of

Medicine, Tel Aviv University, Ramat Aviv, Israel

Received: 17 March 1980 Revised: 12 May 1980Summary Serum samples from Armenians, and from Libyan and

Ashkenazi Jews living in Israel were tested for Gm (1, 2, 3, 5, 6,

10, 11, 13, 14, 17, 21, 24, 26) and for Inv(1) [Km(1)]. The Gm

data indicate that all three populations have Negroid and

Mongoloid admixture. The minimum amount of admixture

varies from 3.1% (Armenians) to 5.5% (Libyan Jews). This

admixture had not been detected by the study of other

polymorphisms, thus once again underlining the sensitivity of

the Gm system. The haplotype frequencies among the Libyan

Jews are markedly different from those among the Ashkenazi

Jews. Surprisingly (coincidentally?) the haplotype frequencies

among the Ashkenazi Jews and the Armenians are similar.

The Libyan Jews have a significantly higher frequency of

Inv 1 than do the Ashkenazi Jews and among the latter,

Inv 1 is at least twice as frequent among Polish Jews as

it is among Russian Jews.

-----------------------------------------------

Jewish[Yahudi] Libyans are classified as Sephardim/Mizrahi Jews and fall under the same J1 Haplogroup as Syrians, Palestinians, Jordanians, and Lebanese; Libyans in general, as their very name indicates, were originally Lebanese[root word Liban]. Armenians fall under the J2 Haplogroup.

Furthermore, the very word Jew[Yahudi] has a geographical association, not an ethnocentric or genetic one...Judea[Yahudah] was a kingdom and province SEPARATE from the Biblical Israel, which was allegedly located to Judea's north in Palestine[Philistia].

As for "arab", it is derived from the word "rub" or "desert"; thus, arab literally means desert-dweller or of the desert...It is also NOT of ethnocentric or genetic association, etymologically speaking.

Neither Jew or Arab are a race of people in the purest sense of etymology.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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DNA analysis further determined that modern Jews of the priesthood tribe—"Kohanim"—share an ancestor dating back about 3,000 years.[59] This result is consistent for all Jewish populations around the world.[59] The researchers estimated that the most recent common ancestor of modern Kohanim lived between 1000 BCE (roughly the time of the Biblical Exodus) and 586 BCE, when the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple.[60] They found similar results analyzing DNA from Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews.[60] The scientists estimated the date of the original priest based on genetic mutations, which indicated that the priest lived roughly 106 generations ago, between 2,650 and 3,180 years ago depending whether one counts a generation as 25 or 30 years.[60]

Salam[shalom]...

Now here is an Afrocentric take on the Kohanim and the Cohen gene...

the cohanim(kohanim) factor its a chromosomal gene which is a distinct signature haplotype of judaic origin, similar to what exist in major jewish population, who trace their ancestry to Aaron brother of Moses. This Kohen gene is completely absent in the gentile and non-jewish people.

Lemba males from Africa carry a higher concentration of this jewish priestly DNA chromosome than Europeans and American Jewish population. The kohen concentration is up to 53.8% on Lemba males and 8.8% in Ashkenazis and other jewish groups.The research was done by America Israel and England to determine this...

-----------------------------------------------------------------

We also don't have the Y-Chromosome DNA of Nabih Harun[Aaron] to prove any kind of "Jewish" ancestry from him either...

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

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the cohanim(kohanim) factor its a chromosomal gene which is a distinct signature haplotype of judaic origin, similar to what exist in major jewish population, who trace their ancestry to Aaron brother of Moses. This Kohen gene is completely absent in the gentile and non-jewish people.

Lemba males from Africa carry a higher concentration of this jewish priestly DNA chromosome than Europeans and American Jewish population. The kohen concentration is up to 53.8% on Lemba males and 8.8% in Ashkenazis and other jewish groups.The research was done by America Israel and England to determine this...

Appended to my own paraphrased post :

I am wondering how do "Jewish PRIESTS" called the Kohanim have their VERY OWN DNA ?

Since when did priests have their own DNA or chromosome gene ?

There are no such modal haplotypes such as CMH[Cohan Modal Haplotype] assigned to let's say :

Buddhists Lamas of Tibet

Shaolin Priests of China

Amun Priests/Tehuti Priests/Ptah Priests/etc.,etc., of ancient Egypt

Baal Priests of Phoenicia[ancient Lebanon]

Eastern Orthodox Priests of Greece & Anatolia[Turkey]

Roman/Vatican Popes of once exclusively Latin/Italian heritage

Olmec/Toltec/Aztec Priests of Mexico

Inca Priests of Peru

Mayan Priests of Central America

Magi Priests of ancient Persia[iran]

Brahman Priests of India

Etc.,

Etc.,

How exactly does a "priestly gene or chromosome" come into biological existence in general ?

And why is this "honour" assigned to only "Jewish Kohanim" priests ?

And why do the Lemba of Black African[Negroid] genealogy have a MUCH HIGHER percentage of this CMH[Cohan Modal Haplotype] than even traditional Ashkenazi[European] Jews of Europe and North America ?

The Lemba are dispersed throughout the African continent : Ethiopia, Kenya, Tanzania, Malawi, Mozambique, South Africa, and Zimbabwe[formerly Rhodesia] ...

My point being that unfortunately, there does exist misrepresentation, manipulation, falsification, propaganda, and fraud even in medical science as there is in standard history and journalism.

---------------------------------------------

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Other Y-chromosome findings show that the world's Jewish communities are closely related to Syrians and Palestinians.[59] The authors of this specific study wrote that "the extremely close affinity of Jewish and non-Jewish Middle Eastern populations observed ... supports the hypothesis of a common Middle Eastern origin".[59] According to another study of the same year, more than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men (inhabitants of Israel and the territories only) whose DNA was studied inherited their Y-chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. The results are consistent with the Biblical account of Jews and Arabs having a common ancestor. About two-thirds of Israeli Arabs and Arabs in the territories and a similar proportion of Israeli Jews are the descendants of at least three common ancestors who lived in the Middle East in the Neolithic period. However, the Palestinian Arab clade includes two Arab modal haplotypes which are found at only very low frequency among Jews, reflecting divergence and/or large scale admixture from non-local populations to the Palestinians. [62]

Salam[shalom]...

Now here is the ultimate HYPOCRISY by Israelis, Christian Zionists, and the Ashkenazi Jewish scholarship in general...

After the State of Israel was founded, rhetoric by such figures as even Golda Meir, stated that Palestinians claimed descent from a people whose names they couldn't even properly pronounce...This was alluding to the Latinized name Palestine whom Palestinian "Arabs" call Falasteen...

Even this rhetoric itself was ignorant, to say the least, from Golda Meir and all else that upheld it...Because in Greek, Palestine was called Philistia [with its initial letter sounded out as an "F" and not "P"]. Not to mention that in the Arabic language, there is no letter or phonetic sound/vocalization for "P".

The Ashkenazi scholars went to GREAT LENGTHS to "prove" that the Palestinians were NOT biological or genealogical descendants of Musa[Moses], Harun[Aaron], Daud[David], Sulayman[solomon], etc...And had no historical right to their land of Palestine [aka "Israel"]; that they were part of an Arab influx during the Arab-Muslim conquests of the Middle East during the 7th Century A.D. ...

But when the discovery and revelation of the KHAZARIAN Turco-Asiatic origin of the Ashkenazi Jews came into the spotlight by Hugo von Kutschera and later by Arthur Koestler, all of a sudden Palestinians and Syrians have the same Y-chromosome haplotype as Ashkenazi Jews...

Even if this "new discovery" were fact [which it most certainly is NOT], then why in the world are the Palestinians treated with such utter contempt by Ashkenazi Israelis in general ??? Especially, IF they are of the same genetic ancestry ???

The unflinching support for the formation of the State of Israel by the post-WW II Christian Evangelical and Christian Zionist lobby of the U.S. was based on the Biblical passages that the MESSIAH will not return to Earth until ALL THE JEWS ARE BACK IN ISRAEL...

This passage in the Bible was first recorded in the Pre-Hebrew texts of the Old Testament...It was first documented in Greek, centuries BEFORE Hebrew was even invented by the Massorah[Massoretes] circa 750-900 A.D. ...

The MESSIAH that the "JEWS" were awaiting was to be from the Bayt-ul-Daud [House of David] ...

However, the MESSIAH that did appear HAD NO FATHER and was borne from the womb of a virgin mother [Hazrat Maryam/Mary] ...

How could this be the MESSIAH for the Bani Israil [Children of Israel or Israelites] ? How could he be of the SEED OF DAVID when he had NO BIOLOGICAL FATHER...?

Or worse, as the Holy Qur'an relates, Hazrat Maryam/Mary was accused of bearing a child out of wedlock from an alleged unknown biological father...

The Bani Israil, as related in the Holy Qur'an, could not possibly accept ISA the Masih (Jesus or Iesous [Greek] the Messiah) because the Bani Israil HAD NO CLUE as to who Nabih Isa's biological father was...Audhubillah[i Seek Refuge In The Divinity], the Bani Israil were under the impression that Nabih Isa was born illegitimate...

They certainly couldn't accept the infant ISA as being born of miraculous birth...Even though he spoke to them from the cradle and vindicated his biological mother ! This is related in the Holy Qur'an. The majority of the Bani Israil refused to accept this miracle and chalked it off to SORCERY or magic. Those of the Bani Israil who believed in Nabih Isa[Jesus] as the Messiah came to be known as Nasrani[Nazarenes] or in Greek--Christians; The Greek word for the Aramaic-Syriac word Masih is CHRISTOS or "The Annointed".

In the Holy Qur'an, even when Almighty Allah(swt) relates the account of Nabih Isa[Jesus] and the Bani Israil, He clearly mentions them as Bani Israil and NOT Yahudi[Jews]...

The geographically-influenced nomenclature of the sectarian SCHISM between the Monotheists[Muwahidun] occurred as a RESULT OF THE VASTE MAJORITY OF THE BANI ISRAIL MONOTHEISTS NOT ACCEPTING NABIH ISA[JESUS] AS THE AWAITED MESSIAH OF THE HOUSE OF DAVID.

Those who accepted Nabih Isa[iesous/Jesus] as the Masih/Messiah, were the Nasrani[Nazarenes] of Nasr[Nazareth], they eventually came to be known as Christians[Greek] in the Western World; those who rejected Nabih Isa[iesous/Jesus], came to be identified as Judeans[Yahudi]. Both nomenclature are of GEOGRAPHICAL nature.

This was the very first major schism in ancient monotheism[tawhid]...One group became Nasrani/Christians, the other Yahudi/Judeans...

For those who rejected Nabih Isa[iesous/Jesus], it was entirely due to his birth without a biological father...ISA IBN MARYAM [JESUS SON OF MARY]; even in modern science, the Y-chromosome DNA that identifies one's genetic classification is through the MALE Y-CHROMOSOME haplotype.

The Messiah which the monotheist mega-tribe of Bani Israil were awaiting was to deliver them from centuries of foreign occupiers and invaders...During Nabih Isa's time, it was the Romans; prior to that it was the Macedonian Greeks; Achaemenid Persians[iranians]; Chaldean Iraqis; etc...

A surprising series of contemporary archaeological expeditions of Palestine/Israel [aka The Holy Land] resulted in the remarkable book entitled THE BIBLE UNEARTHED by Israeli professor Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman [both Ashkenazi Jews FYI]; from a review of their findings :

Although the Book of Samuel, and initial parts of the Book of Kings, portray Saul, David, and Solomon ruling in succession over a powerful and cosmopolitan United Kingdom of Israel and Judah, Finkelstein and Silberman regard modern archaeological evidence as showing that this is a pious fiction. Archaeology instead shows that in the time of Solomon, the northern kingdom of Israel had an insignificant existence, too poor to be able to pay for a vast army, and with too little bureaucracy to be able to administer a kingdom, certainly not an empire; it only emerged later, around the beginning of the 9th century BCE, in the time of Omri. There is little to suggest that Jerusalem, touted by the Bible as David's capital, was little more than a village during the time of David and of Solomon, and Judah remained little more than a sparsely populated rural region, until the 7th century BCE.

-----------------------------

As a firm believer in the Holy Qur'an as the undisputed word of the Almighty, I do believe that the Kingdom of Talut[saul], Daud[David], and Sulayman[solomon] DID INDEED EXIST. But NOT in Palestine[aka Israel] but in SYRIA. The mention of their names[Nabih Sulayman/Solomon, however, was not mentioned] in the Ebla Tablets of Ebla, Syria attest to this archaeologically supported conclusion...

SYRIA has an ANCIENT history of powerful kingdoms and dynasties and was the oldest neighbouring rival to Mesopotamian Iraq.

Also, the timeline of this proposed monotheist Syrian kingdom has already been radiocarbondated to circa 2300 B.C.[Late 3rd Millennium B.C.]; the Ebla Tablets containing the actual names of ancient monotheist figures Adamu[Adam]; Hawwa[Eve]; Ibramu[Abraham]; Esaum[Esau]; Shaulum[saul]; Daudum[David]; etc., have been radiocarbondated to circa 2400-2300 B.C. !

This timeline of course PERFECTLY FITS IN WITH MY OWN PERSONAL THEORY [barely even speculated by extremely few] that 4th Dynasty Egyptian Pharaoh Khufu [reigned 2646-2583 B.C.] was positively the Firaun of the Holy Qur'an [i.e. The Pharaoh of BOTH the Oppression and the Exodus] ...

This, of course, also means that the Christian Zionist-Evangelical U.S. lobby and the Khazar/Ashkenazi Jewish population established the location of the Biblical/Judeo-Christian Tabernacle & The Temple of Solomon housing the Ark of the Covenant containing the restored Ten Commandment tablets IN THE WRONG GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION.

That is the reason why the highly underrated anthropologist and author Margaret L. King [The Exodus In The Holy Qur'an], has emphasized that there has been NO POSITIVE ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE that the monotheist Bani Israili Kingodm had EVER EXISTED in Palestine/Israel...

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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The original Ebla epigrapher and excavator Giovanni Pettinato, was of the Italian archaeological team of Paolo Matthiae that made the astounding discoveries at Tell Mardikh of ancient Ebla in northern Syria. Due to a terrific dispute and disagreement between them, Mr. Matthiae and Mr. Pettinato parted ways. The nature of their intense disagreement was Mr. Pettinato's linkage of the Ebla inscriptions to "Biblical" history. Consequently, there had been a virtual freeze on the release of the epigraphy of the Ebla Tablets since their discovery in the 1970's. Similar to that of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Inspired from some of Professor Giovanni Pettinato's epigraphy, here is a proposed hypothesis of the Ebla civilization :

The exodus or hijrah[migration] from Egypt of the Bani Israil occured in 2583 B.C., with the drowning death of Pharaoh Khufu[Cheops/Suphis II]. The Bani Israil journey and sojourn lasted a decade, progressing along the Mediterranean coastline on the Haru[Horus] Highway, across the northern coast of the Sinai Desert and into SW Palestine[Philistia]. Circa 2573 B.C., Anbiya Musa[Moses] and Harun[Aaron] part ways with the rebellious Bani Israil. As related in the Holy Qur'an, this was due to the refusal of the Bani Israil to annex a fortified settlement which Nabih Musa[Moses] had ordered them to do.

The Bani Israil wandered for 40 years until they reached northern Syria and finally settled down circa 2533 B.C.; Nabih Talut is appointed king and establishes the monotheist Kingdom of Ebla circa 2500 B.C.; the Ebla region had well-established agrarian and pastoral settlements dating from circa 2700 B.C.; however, these settlements were not unified, nor were they a highly developed economic and military power.

On the other hand, the city-state of Mari in southern Syria, bordering Iraq, was an established urban settlement from circa 2900 B.C.; when the Eblan kingdom had been established, the city-state and kingdom of Mari, under King Gumalum, attempted to subdue it. The battle against the Mari, which included its champion warrior and general Jalut[Goliath], ended in an initial defeat of King Shaulum's insubordinate army. However, later under King Shaulum's junior commander Daudum, which included his personal triumph over Jalut[Goliath], the powerful kingdom of Mari eventually became a subordinate city-state of Ebla.

When Nabih Talut had been appointed ruler, he had adopted the fitting regal name Shaulum[saul]. Successive kings of the Ebla kingdom, Daudum and Sulaymanu, established the monotheist Ebla empire which comprised ALL of Syria[including the powerful city-state of Mari in the south]; SE Turkey; Lebanon[Phoenicia]; Palestine[Philistia]; and Urdunn[Jordan]--circa 2475-2375 B.C.

During the foundation of the Syrian Ebla kingdom by King Shaulum-Talut, the Shumeru[sumerian] cuneiform script is adopted for the Eblaic language; Eblaic was the spoken language of northern Syria from circa 2700 B.C. and was quickly adopted by the immigrant Bani Israil tribe[comprising 12 large clans].

The Syrian Eblan empire rivalled the Saggiga/Shumeru[sumerian] confederate empire which comprised ALL of Iraq; Elam[sW Persia]; Kuwait & the Neutral Zone; Nejd or NE Arabia; and the island of Dilmun[Bahrayn].

King Sulaymanu was APPOINTED successor to the throne of Ebla by his late biological father King Daudum, just as King Daudum had been appointed royal successor by King Shaulum-Talut; however, King Daudum was neither a son, nor any close kinsman of King Shaulum-Talut. All three rulerships of Syrian Eblan kings Shaulum-Talut, Daudum, and Sulaymanu were by APPOINTMENT and not by election or hereditary status; Shaulum-Talut had been appointed by an unnamed monotheist prophet of northern Syria.

By the end of King Sulaymanu's reign, the Syrian Eblan empire constituted a confederation of 17 city-states that were subordinate to the empire capital Ebla. There also constituted governor-generals[i.e. high-ranking governors] for each of these city-states. Ebla itself had two governor-generals under the king.

Ebla's most likely original name was URU-SALA-UMA[ur=City; Sala'um=Peace]; this nomenclature is CLEARLY stated in the epigraphy of the Ebla Tablets. It is important to note that the Palestinian-Israeli "Jerusalem" was barely a village circa 1000 B.C.; during the days of the Eblan empire, there was NO settlement that could even be called a village, let alone it being named "Jerusalem".

Before his passing, King Sulaymanu had constituted a limited term of 7 years for subsequent ELECTED rulers of his Syrian Eblan empire; the next 21 years saw the reigns of three Eblan kings named Igrish-Halam; Irkab-Damu; and Ar-Ennum[Reshi-Ennum].

The 2nd elected Eblan king, Irkab-Damu, reverted the Syrian Eblan empire to Shumeru[sumerian]-influenced polytheism, establishing Dagan as the chief deity; monotheist governor of Mari, Iblul-Il, declares himself ruler and further declares the southern Syrian vassal city-state of Mari, an independent kingdom. Irkab-Damu dispatches his general of the army, Enna-Dagan, who defeats Iblul-Il and recaptures Mari.

The 4th elected Eblan king, Ebrum[ibrium] ends electoral rulership that had been constituted by King Sulaymanu and declares hereditary rulership for the Syrian Eblan empire; Ebrum[ibrium] further establishes absolute monarchy of the Syrian Eblan empire.

The last two rulers of the Syrian Eblan empire were Ebrum's son Ibbi-Sipish[ibbi-Zikir] and Dubuhu-Ada; the latter Eblan king is the last ruler of the Syrian Eblan empire. Dubuhu-Ada is defeated by Akkadu ruler Sharrukin[sargon] I circa 2300-2290 B.C.

The Akkadu[Akkadian] civilization of northern Iraq[Mesopotamia] dates from 2900 B.C.; during the reign of Sharrukin[sargon] I, from 2334-2278 B.C., the Akkadian empire is established which includes the conquest of the Shumeru[sumerian] confederate empire and the Syrian Eblan empire and all its territories,.

Circa 2300-2290 B.C., the conquest of the Syrian Eblan empire by King Sharrukin[sargon] I of Akkadu. From the death of Sharrukin I in 2278 B.C., the Akkadian empire lasts for an additional 141 years before their destruction circa 2140-2083 B.C.

The last Akkadian ruler Shudurul's reign ends in 2137 B.C. and the Akkadian empire is fragmented among its governor-generals with no sovereign ruler; the following 4-decade long war of attrition with the Zagros nomadic warrior tribe called the Guti[Gutians] results in the destruction of the Akkadian empire circa 2140-2100 B.C.; the subsequent 17-year severe drought in southern Syria and northern Iraq[Mesopotamia], from 2100-2083 B.C., further wipes out any remnants of the Akkadian empire.

The dark period from 2083-2057 B.C. of northern Iraq[Mesopotamia] before the establishment of a new dynastic kingdom by the Babylonians in 2057 B.C.; the Babylonian civilization dated from circa 2500 B.C.; under King Hammurabi (reigned *1955-1913 B.C.), the Babylonian empire reached its peak.

[*Alternate date being 1792-1750 B.C.]

P.S. - Amendment to my previously held timeline for the reign of Sharrukin[sargon] I from 2637-2582 B.C. to 2334-2278 B.C.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

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Salam[shalom]...

How exactly are DNA tests done on the "ancestors of Kohanim tribal Jews" dating back 3000 years ago ?

Through time travel ?

The original quote said: "DNA analysis further determined that modern Jews of the priesthood tribe—"Kohanim"—share an ancestor dating back about 3,000 years.[59] This result is consistent for all Jewish populations around the world.[59] The researchers estimated that the most recent common ancestor of modern Kohanim lived between 1000 BCE (roughly the time of the Biblical Exodus) and 586 BCE, when the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple.[60] They found similar results analyzing DNA from Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews.[60] The scientists estimated the date of the original priest based on genetic mutations, which indicated that the priest lived roughly 106 generations ago, between 2,650 and 3,180 years ago depending whether one counts a generation as 25 or 30 years.[60]"

Of course, you can go to the wikipedia article yourself, which includes links to the relevant articles, and check them yourself.

But perhaps you are missing something basic about genetics. Today a common and well-accepted technique of genetics (whether on humans, animals, plants, bacteria, or whatever) is to compare a set of individuals and project backwards to the most recent common ancestor. This is based on statistics and takes into consideration mutation rates, genetic drift, etc. Like all statistical techniques it is not 100% precise, it only gives approximations. Thus, for example, when they say "roughly 106 generations ago," they don't mean "precisely 106 generations" - they mean most likely 106 generations, with a somewhat lower probability of being, say, 100-105 or 107-111 generations, a lower probability of being 90-99 or 112-120 generations, an even lower probability of being 80-89 or 121-130 generations, etc. The techniques are well-established for heritability in general.

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Salam[shalom]...

Now this piece seems incongruous and inconsistent with all the earlier paragraphs that had been posted...

Now what about those "host (non-Jewish) Europeans" ?

Why would they belong to the same haplogroups as Ashkenazi Jews ?

It's a fascinating study which was widely reported in the media when it was released. You can read the entire article at http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=1380291 - but I don't think the sentence in the wikipedia article summarizes it very well.

Very briefly, Behar et al. found that, using complete sequences of the maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), they could show that close to one-half of Ashkenazi Jews can be traced back to only 4 women carrying distinct mtDNAs that are virtually absent in other populations, with the important exception of low frequencies among non-Ashkenazi (North African, Near Eastern, and Caucasian) Jews.

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