Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Storm Large

Tabernacle is greater than Kaaba

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

(salam)

And i cannot see ghosts spirits antimatter etc.. does that confirm their supremacy?

If you cannot something or some entity, is it necessary that entity even exists?

Spiritual objects can be seen by other means than the vision of an ordinary human being. The various Biblical prophets were able to see angels and spirits at different points of the Bible; it is the same with the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). They were able to see these beings by God's permission, just as we can see microscopic matter or far-away planets and stars through methods besides the ordinary naked eye.

God on the other hand is beyond shape and form. Once you've given him a form that can be attributed to something we could see, then you've limited Him to that shape or form, when God by definition is unlimited and unbound by everything. If God had a body part, for example, a physical hand, it would mean God needs this hand for a specific purpose. It would also mean that this physical part would have to have been created at one point. God is in need of nothing, and cannot "enhance" Himself with body parts when He is eternally perfect.

If you cannot something or some entity, is it necessary that entity even exists?

If you are mentally limited to only believing what you see and feel, then you may as well question almost everything else in life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(salam)

Spiritual objects can be seen by other means than the vision of an ordinary human being. The various Biblical prophets were able to see angels and spirits at different points of the Bible; it is the same with the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). They were able to see these beings by God's permission, just as we can see microscopic matter or far-away planets and stars through methods besides the ordinary naked eye.

Yeah did you see the dragon behind the moon? It was a spectacular sight to behold.

God on the other hand is beyond shape and form. Once you've given him a form that can be attributed to something we could see, then you've limited Him to that shape or form, when God by definition is unlimited and unbound by everything. If God had a body part, for example, a physical hand, it would mean God needs this hand for a specific purpose. It would also mean that this physical part would have to have been created at one point. God is in need of nothing, and cannot "enhance" Himself with body parts when He is eternally perfect.

If you read Bible and Quran, God's spirit, breath, his words, are all TANGIBLE entities on their right. As a matter of fact, Allah is Nuur of Samawati wa Al Ardh, and that is not to see in a material world, but in a spiritual sense. Are you denying the fact that God has a spirit?

If you are mentally limited to only believing what you see and feel, then you may as well question almost everything else in life.

And if you are only limited to be a bot and regurgitating standard answers which have no life ... so long..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I still think that God prefers Moses over Muhammad even in the Quran Moses is mentioned more and it seems Jews and their history is unique and more glorious. Parting of the red sea. Tabenacle :cry:

(salam)

That what You think, bro how old are you? Muhammad (pbuh) was the greatest and he brought the greatest of miracles, The Quran. No need to cry over it lol.

Edited by Tayyeb_Jaan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

If you read Bible and Quran, God's spirit, breath, his words, are all TANGIBLE entities on their right.

But is God Himself a tangible object?

As a matter of fact, Allah is Nuur of Samawati wa Al Ardh, and that is not to see in a material world, but in a spiritual sense. Are you denying the fact that God has a spirit?

I am denying that God is a spirit. God is no thing - the only way He can be described as a thing is if that thing is similar to nothing else (see the sayings of the A'immah (as)). You're arguing on why we cannot see Allah dwelling in the Ka'aba, which makes us revert to the question, why can't we see Allah in general? Allah is not limited to a form like His creation, He is far beyond having a physical body or a tentacle. Also, how is it that you expect to see your Creator when you cannot even look into the sun for more than a second, neither can you see microscopic or astronomical objects without the use of equipment? We cannot even imagine God in our heads, let alone see Him with our eyes.

If you do believe God can make Himself appear, then show Him to me. What colour is His texture? What does He sound like? Where does He come from?

as far as my religious status is concerned.. it chose that by default and iam not wasting time on changing it just because some hater of truth forces me to.

He's a Christian. See here: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1905379

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
you are relying on a book written hundreds of years after jesus dissapeared, written by no one on earth knows who into greek even though jesus spoke aramaic, then translated AGAIN into latin...and THEN translated into english...of which there are over 100 versions in english alone.

how do you know what the book says or doesnt say when you try and read that jumbled mess? how do you know its not talking about something totally different and mundane, or even symbolically/ allegorically?

Well my friend he was referencing the Book of Exodus which was written in Hebrew and was already written well before Jesus was born. Also there are copies of the Torah (Five Books of Moses) that are translated from the original Hebrew. And Jesus also spoke Hebrew and maybe even knew a few phrases of Latin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I still think that God prefers Moses over Muhammad even in the Quran Moses is mentioned more and it seems Jews and their history is unique and more glorious. Parting of the red sea. Tabenacle :cry:

Well, the fact that Moses is mentioned so many times shows you that we do hold him in very high esteem, but this is not some competition .. do you use your religion just so you can boast and be arrogant? is being self-absorbed all Judaism teaches you?

And i cannot see ghosts spirits antimatter etc.. does that confirm their supremacy?

If you cannot something or some entity, is it necessary that entity even exists?

hrm.. well there are still things that exist but you can't see them.. eg. your emotions, distortion of space (aka gravity), even the 'world-image' inside your head - ie. your eyes transduce the light information they recieve into electrical signals which are sent to your brain - your brain interprets these and creates the 'world-image' that you 'see'.. yet, if someone were to cut open your head and take out your brain, they would not be able to find that world image anywhere.. so based on vision alone it doesn't even exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The story of Moses and Pharoah Ramses invokes more emotion and religious fervor than any story in the Holy Books. The reason being that Pharoah defied God himself and thus God chose Moses to be his representative on earth and defeat someone who claimed to be God.

Holy is the story. Holy is Moses. Holier than thou (muhammad)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Forget my religion for now. Tell me why we can't see Allah dwelling on Kaaba, him or his spirit?

(bismillah)

(salam)

Allah (s) has no physical body. Tell me now, if Allah (s) did would you worship Allah (s)? If Allah (s) did have a body than we would all be in chaos because none would worship Allah (s).

For Example,

How would you want Allah (s)? With one eye or two? If Allah (s) had one eye we would all call Allah (s) a monster. If Allah (s) had two, we would say what's the difference between Allah (s) and us? People would then not worship Allah (s). Plus if Allah (s) had a body, Allah (s) would not be worthy of worship. Why? Because that which is physical is limited. And that which is limited cannot be worshiped. Because the only one who deserves to be worshiped is the perfect being. Now, a physical being has limitations, we need food, water, sleep plus we are limited to only what our eyes see. We are limited to our sizes therefore we can only be where we are and only see what is happening before us, we do not have that all-seeing comprehension. Now let me ask you, if Allah (s) is physical how can he be all seeing and knowing? Easy Allah (s) is not (physical), "He is within everything but not with a Physical nearness"-Imam Ali (as) (Not the exact Hadith but it gets to the point)

Anyways also watch this,

God according to Islam through Imam Ali (as) w/ English subs

Edited by Tayyeb_Jaan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(bismillah)

(salam)

Allah (s) has no physical body. Tell me now, if Allah (s) did would you worship Allah (s)? If Allah (s) did have a body than we would all be in chaos because none would worship Allah (s).

What makes you think that if God has a body that the world becomes chaotic ?

If Allah (s) had one eye we would all call Allah (s) a monster.If Allah (s) had two, we would say what's the difference between Allah (s) and us?

God created man in his image.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Believe it or not, The Ruach HA Qodesh, the holy spirit, Jesus himself, whatever you wanna call the spirit, used to dwell on the Tabernacle, but we don't see any holy spirit dwelling on the Kaaba. Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

^No, how about you properly read my posts and Br. Qa'im's post #30 than reply :) God has no body.

If the brother wants to believe that God is a space-based Ion Cannon from the Command & Conquer series, then let him to his religion.

414066321_59138e141a.jpg

Edited by Qa'im

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, for heaven's sake.

1) Allah [swt] does not have a physical body that you and I can see.

2) The Kaaba is not where Allah [swt] lives, it is simply called the 'house of God' because it a very holy place dedicated solely to His worship.

3) Prophet Musa (a.s.) is a great prophet deeply respected by all Muslims. The difference between him and Muhammad is not based on either one's superiority. It is based on their respective missions.

4) Your opinion is that the 'Tabernacle' is greater than the Kaaba because God was seen living there (as proven by the drawing you posted :wacko: ) but not at the Kaaba. You also feel that Musa is superior to Muhammad because of this. Muslims deny all of this as seen in 1, 2 and 3 above.

Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't forget that the Prophet came to confirm the Torah and Injeel! The Prophet was much more humble than any of these Muslims here. I think he knew his place in creation.

(yes, this is comin from me :squeez: )

Salaam and Shalom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Believe it or not, The Ruach HA Qodesh, the holy spirit, Jesus himself, whatever you wanna call the spirit, used to dwell on the Tabernacle, but we don't see any holy spirit dwelling on the Kaaba. Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Salam/Peace...

From The Bible :

Psalm 84

1 How lovely is your dwelling place,

O LORD Almighty!

2 My soul yearns, even faints,

for the courts of the LORD;

my heart and my flesh cry out

for the living God.

3 Even the sparrow has found a home,

and the swallow a nest for herself,

where she may have her young—

a place near your altar,

O LORD Almighty, my King and my God.

4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house;

they are ever praising you.

Selah

5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,

who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.

6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca,

they make it a place of springs;

the autumn rains also cover it with pools. 7 They go from strength to strength,

till each appears before God in Zion.

------------------------------------------------

Zion Zion.GIF

Zion was originally a Jebusite stronghold located in or near Jerusalem or is equal to Jerusalem. King David captures this stronghold and it is renamed City Of David. David sets up the tabernacle there and Solomon retrieves it from there to place the ark and utensils in the temple. Isaiah mentions that YHWH dwells on Mount Zion (8:18) and later writers relate the name Zion to the eternal Jerusalem (Hebr 12:22) and heaven (Rev 14:1).

Because Zion was originally not Israeli, the name Zion comes to us probably from a language other than Hebrew. TWOTOT mentions an Arabic root s-w-n (under 1910), to protect, defend, which may give Zion the meaning of fortress. Others (says TWOTOT ) suggest derivation from a root saha, be bald.

Spelled the way it is, however, the name Zion is identical to the word Zion.GIF (sayon 1909b) meaning place of dryness, from the assumed root 1909.GIF (syh 1909). Derivation 1909.GIF (siya 1909a), dryness, drought, occurs in Psalm 105:41.

On the Biblical canvass, the name Zion means Dry Place.

-----------------------------------------------

From the Holy Qur'an; Surah Aal-i-Imran[Family Of Imran]; 3:96 --

"Lo! the first Sanctuary appointed for mankind was that at Becca, a blessed place, a guidance to the peoples"

[ Inna awwala baytin wudiAAa linnasi lallathee bibakkata mubarakan wahudan lilAAalameena ]

------------------------------------------------

It has been considered that the Wadi-al-Bakka[Valley of Bekka/Mekka] is the same one as mentioned in Psalms 84 and that Zion is its description of a Dry Place. Consequently, Tsiyyon/Siyyon/Sayon is not a geographical place but actually a description of a place...In this case, the place where Almighty Allah/Eloah resides...

Any thoughts...?

P.S. - Mecca's ancient name was Becca.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Believe it or not, The Ruach HA Qodesh, the holy spirit, Jesus himself, whatever you wanna call the spirit, used to dwell on the Tabernacle, but we don't see any holy spirit dwelling on the Kaaba. Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Salam[shalom]/Peace...

From the Holy Qur'an : Surah Al-Baqarah[The Heifer];

2:125

And when We made the House a pilgrimage for men and a (place of) security, and: Appoint for yourselves a place of prayer on the standing-place of Ibrahim. And We enjoined Ibrahim and Ismail saying: Purify My House for those who visit (it) and those who abide (in it) for devotion and those who bow down (and) those who prostrate themselves.

2:126

And when Ibrahim said: My Lord, make it a secure town and provide its people with fruits, such of them as believe in Allah and the last day. He[Allah] said: And whoever disbelieves, I will grant him enjoyment for a short while, then I will drive him to the chastisement of the fire; and it is an evil destination.

2:127

And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing.

Also, from Surah Ibrahim[Abraham]; Ayat 37:

14:37

"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a barren valley, by Thy Sacred House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer: so fill the hearts of some among men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they may give thanks.

[ Rabbana innee askantu min thurriyyatee biwadin ghayri thee zarAAin AAinda baytika almuharrami rabbana liyuqeemoo alssalata faijAAal af-idatan mina alnnasi tahwee ilayhim waorzuqhum mina alththamarati laAAallahum yashkuroona. ]

------------------------------------------------------

The Biblical/Judeo-Christian Zion[Tsiyyon/Siyyon/Sayon] being a Dry Place, could very likely be the barren valley mentioned in Ayat 37 of Surah Ibrahim...The Valley of Baca/Wadi al-Bakka[Mekka] of the Hejaz in Arabia.

Any further thoughts ?

P.S. - In Arabic, three words define "desert" : badhw; rub; sahra. A probable candidate for the Arabic etymological origin for the word Zion[Tsiyyon/Siyyon/Sayon] "from the assumed root 1909.GIF (syh)" could very well be sahra.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Believe it or not, The Ruach HA Qodesh, the holy spirit, Jesus himself, whatever you wanna call the spirit, used to dwell on the Tabernacle, but we don't see any holy spirit dwelling on the Kaaba. Is kaaba an arab imitation of Jewish Tabernacle? I think yes.

Salam[shalom]/Peace...

From Psalm 84 of The Bible :

5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,

who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.

6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca,

they make it a place of springs;

the autumn rains also cover it with pools.

7 They go from strength to strength,

till each appears before God in Zion.

-----------------------------------------------

The above veses could be metaphors for those pilgrims[hajis] to make it a place of springs in the Valley of Baca[Wadi al-Bakka]...Going from strength to strength till they appeared before God[Allah] in Zion[Dry Land]. On the other hand, Becca[Mecca] does have the Aab-ul-Zam Zam[Well of Zam-Zam]...

Also, if verse 7 of Psalm 84 ended with "till each appears before God [on] Zion" rather than "in Zion", than that would imply that Zion was Dry Land surrounded by wetlands. But since the verse is clearly translated into English as "in Zion", this implies that the land itself was dry, arid, or barren.

Wa Huwa Ala Kulli Shayin Qadir.

Edited by Al-Afza

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×