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Prophet PBUH can read and write?


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#26 Sunni786YaAli

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 03:12 PM

salam,

the widely accepted intepretation of the first revelation and the word "IQRA" for the specific ayat is "to repeat or dictate", why because you have to understand the first revelation HOW it was revealed and understand the context.

arabic isnt one dimensional language like english depending on the situation and surrounding one can understand what word applies where and when. as we are non-arabs it is difficult for us to understand this but any knowledgeable person who translates the quran knows this.

angle gabriel asked prophet muhammad pbuh to "read in the name of Allah" three times this is a fact nobody cannot deny as events and incidents regarding the revelations are written in tafseer of how the revelation was revealed.

if you say that angel gabriel meant read from a "book" then why didnt prophet muhammad pbuh read from the very first time angel gabriel said IQRA?? why did he had to repeat himself 3 times? this is because prophet muhammad pbuh was shaken and hesitated he didnt know what was asked from him what to do. he replied 3 times " i cannot read" and the 4th time he understood he was meant to "repeat" what the angel gabriel said and memorised it in his heart.

if you further argue that the prophet muhammad pbuh could read then i will argue why cannot the prophet pbuh "memorise"?? are you implying he cannot remember a few sentences of the first revelation that he needs to write it?

write on what? did he have a pen with him at the time in the cave? was provisions already made did he know that angel gabriel was coming to him adn he was supposed to write?

of course not if hufaaz can be created who know 30 chapters by heart are you telling me prophet muhammad pbuh the supreme perfect human being which Allah swt created could not do a simple thing to memorise?? (astagfirullah).

i think this whole issue can be solved if the shia go to their alims and ask and question them about the first revealation inshallah they will tell what happened in teh cave with the first meeting between angel gabriel and prophet muhammad pbuh and how the event occured.

waslam

#27 Sunni786YaAli

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 03:22 PM

salam,

you need to keep up with the argument u misunderstood what i was asking brother. i didnt mean who taught prophet muhammad pbuh knowledge duh! everyone knows that of course its Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

my question is how did Allah swt taught prophet pbuh to WRITE??

Allah is pure from body and form so therefore its impossible, the knowledge which he recieved was not any knowledge like we can understand it was supreme. it didnt need no books,inks,pens, papers.

waslam

salam,

"He was literate and was able to read, just like Yusuf, Musa, Isa, Suleiman were literate and knowledgable"

one of the predictions in the torah and other books for prophet muhammad pbuh was that he would be illeterate i.e. the prophet could not read or write but he will still have a large following.

you gave no evidence where is prophet muhammad book?document?note?letter by prophet muhammads HANDWRITING??

waslam

#28 Ali.

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:46 AM

salam,

you need to keep up with the argument u misunderstood what i was asking brother. i didnt mean who taught prophet muhammad pbuh knowledge duh! everyone knows that of course its Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

my question is how did Allah swt taught prophet pbuh to WRITE??

Allah is pure from body and form so therefore its impossible, the knowledge which he recieved was not any knowledge like we can understand it was supreme. it didnt need no books,inks,pens, papers.

waslam

salam,

"He was literate and was able to read, just like Yusuf, Musa, Isa, Suleiman were literate and knowledgable"

one of the predictions in the torah and other books for prophet muhammad pbuh was that he would be illeterate i.e. the prophet could not read or write but he will still have a large following.

you gave no evidence where is prophet muhammad book?document?note?letter by prophet muhammads HANDWRITING??

waslam


You already said it, the prophet (pbuh) commanded us to seek knowledge, he already possessed it. Doesn't possessing knowledge include the ability to read or write?
By the way you're really ill-informed about Ali (as) and the other 3 caliphs, they could read and write. Open the Qur'an and lookup the final page .......

Edited by Ali., 24 March 2009 - 11:50 AM.


#29 Abbas

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 12:53 PM

Salam Alaikum

my question is how did Allah swt taught prophet pbuh to WRITE??

Allah is pure from body and form so therefore its impossible, the knowledge which he recieved was not any knowledge like we can understand it was supreme. it didnt need no books,inks,pens, papers.


In your Sunni books, it is written that the Prophet [s] could not read, but the angel Jibraeel appeared when he was once alone in the mount of Hira, and ordered him to read. He was shocked and scared, and replied that he cannot read. He was ordered again to read. The angel the seized him or squeezed him, and he suddenly knew how to read.

We don't believe that of course, but your own stories refute your questions of how Allah SWT taught him [s] how to write. If Allah SWT, according to your sources of Seerah, does not need books, inks, pens, papers, etc to teach the Prophet [s] how to read, then why do you question how He can teach him to write?

The answer is inspiration, and we believe this inspiration came when he was created, and you books say it came when he had lived in this world for 40 years.

#30 power

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 04:02 PM

[quote name='Sunni786YaAli' date='Mar 20 2009, 03:53 PM' post='1853227']
salam,

regarding the prophets saying " seek knowledge from cradle to the grave" it wasnt for himself but he told other muslims to, prophet muhammad pbuh didnt need to seek any knowledge from any human in the world he possessed all the knowledge from Allah swt.

as for your other points your arguments are weak with no reference, u havent proved anything ur argument is weak brother. u need to understand the history of the arabs at the time makkah was un-habited place there were no religeous institutions or any form of schooling that people could be taught to learn and write it was the time of jahliyya.

as far as i know hazrat abu bakar,umar,uthman and ali (ra) couldnt read or write if they could they would have been scribes to write the revelation. hazrat ali (ra) was a master in memory he remembered the quran by heart but was not taught how to read and write he had a time of unrest as peophet muhammad pbuh facing one tragedy after the other where could they find the time to read and write when they faced so many responsibilities for the ummah.

as for they scribes there were only 20 at the time who recorded by memory the revelations and people who could actually read and write were very rare. thats why prophet muhammad pbuh said seek knowledge to cradle and grave but knowledge is not LIMITED to reading and writing.

you need to prove to me from an incident in prophet muhammad pbuh has written a document,letter,message ANYTHING but it doesnt exist why?? because prophet muhhammad pbuh use to have a ring which had a stamp every time a letter was written to some king he would STAMP it and approve the letter that it was from him.

do you not think that where the muslims have preserved prophets hair, cloak, hat, stick, nails, prayer mat over 1430 years that the muslims could not even save ONE document written by theis great messenger prophet muhammad pbuh???? or even hazrat ali???? wouldnt the muslims have recorded the beautiful mubarak writing wouldnt the muslims would have preserved such important artefacts???

it could not be so brother because simply they didnt write period.

waslam
[/quote


Narrated Al-Bara bin 'Azib [ra], ' When Allah's Apostle [s] concluded a peace treaty with the people of Hudaibiya, Ali bin Abu Talib [ra] wrote the document [bukhari Vol. 3 h # 862]


This proves Imam Ali could read and write. Now you prove to me that our beloved Prophet (saw)couldnt read the quran

#31 Zen

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 04:04 PM

The only way to truly find out would be to ask Muhammad, how can someone now tell you anything remotely close to the actual truth if they never witnessed the truth?

#32 ShiaSoldier@2007

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 04:06 PM

that hadeeth is weak and stop lieing about rasool Allah and saying he can read have you people no limits on when to stop attacks this is rasool Allah he was unlearned to him i sacrifice my mother and father walaah the shia stab me in the heart wen they say stuff like that do you not know haw bad what you just said is you are ignorent on tawheed what is rely expected of you yah just reply angry defending your self and neglect what you just said.

O shia tawheed look it up


Us insulting prophet? You think the prophet with more knowledge then the whole world couldnt read and write? His teacher is Allah s.w.t! If I can read and write then why cant the prophet of Allah? You are insulting the prophet by saying he could not read or write.

#33 Sunni786YaAli

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:07 PM

salam,

what knowledge are you talking about??

the knwledge concerning reading and writing is temporary for this world the knowledge which prophet muhammad pbuh posessed was unique, supreme nothing compared to reading or writing.

the kufaar were schocked that how can a man who could not read thats prophet muhammad pbuh, produce the holy quran full of eloquence and beautiful poetry! this is why Allah swt challenges the kufar that if this is not the word of Allah then produce an ayat like it!.

say what you gotta say here what are you implying that hazrat ali can and the caliphs can write??please give proof! there are no letters recorded in their history which was actually written by them. hazrat abu bakar, umar and uthman used the prophets ring which was passed down from one caliph to another until hazrat uthman lost it in the well.

the letters were written for them just like the kings has people write letters and they were stamped by this special ring. this ring came into the hands of MARWAN who later passed of letters in the name of hazrat uthman (ra) and eventually because of these forged letters hazrat uthman (ra) was martyred.

when you say i dont know anything please inform me, or teach me dont say i just dont know. what are you implying about the quran?? are you talking about surah wannas??

waslam

salam,

you also need to keep up with the thread "READ"

In your Sunni books, it is written that the Prophet [s] could not read, but the angel Jibraeel appeared when he was once alone in the mount of Hira, and ordered him to read. He was shocked and scared, and replied that he cannot read. He was ordered again to read. The angel the seized him or squeezed him, and he suddenly knew how to read.

We don't believe that of course, but your own stories refute your questions of how Allah SWT taught him [s] how to write. If Allah SWT, according to your sources of Seerah, does not need books, inks, pens, papers, etc to teach the Prophet [s] how to read, then why do you question how He can teach him to write?

The answer is inspiration, and we believe this inspiration came when he was created, and you books say it came when he had lived in this world for 40 years.
[/quote]

#34 Sunni786YaAli

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:13 PM

Salam,

your knowledge is poor we dont say that prophet muhammad pbuh didnt know that he was a prophet by the age of 40, or that he wasnt inspired before this age. if u have proof that this is present in sunni book please give reference, it is a widely known fact that only wahabis believe in this and other deviated sects not sunnis.

angel gabriel said "iqra" which translated means read, recite, dictate, repeat. your knowledge on arabic again very poor in this event angel gabriel told prophet muhammad pbuh to repeat after him.

as to why Allah didnt teach him through writing or reading books, Allah is Allah he can do whatever he wants he doesnt need to make his prophet go through the miseries to read and write for a period of time but Allah can give prophet muhammad pbuh knwledge in seconds.

where is the proof for your idiotic claims that Allah made prophet muhammad to write?? so far i havent got one piece of authentic evidence all you have given me is false claims!

waslam

#35 Sunni786YaAli

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:21 PM

salam,

you cannot give comparison of yourself with prophet muhammad pbuh how dare you?? you or any person is not worthy to compare in any way with prophet muhammad pbuh (astagfirullah) you urself have disrespected the prophey by doing this!.

we as human sweat and stink, you make mistakes, you excrete, were sinners how can we compare with prophet muhammad pbuh?

as you do not have any logical argument or any proof regarding prophet muhammad pbuh that he could write, you are resorting to lowering the status of prophet muhammad pbuh. just to protect your baseless arguments you are talking filth.

GIVE ME ONE EVIDENCE OF ANY OF PROPHET MUHAMMADS WORKS BY WRITING IN HIS LIFE TIME?? THIS IS A CHALLENGE TO THE SHIAS IM WAITING!

waslam

#36 Sadiq M...

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:42 PM

salam,

regarding the prophets saying " seek knowledge from cradle to the grave" it wasnt for himself but he told other muslims to, prophet muhammad pbuh didnt need to seek any knowledge from any human in the world he possessed all the knowledge from Allah swt.


The Prophet possessed all the knowledge from Allah yet he could not write?

Secondly, if the Prophet tells others to learn knowledge from the cradle to the grave but does not do so himself then he becomes a hypocrite, as he is telling people to do something he himself does not do. And we all know our Prophet is far above this.

#37 Sunni786YaAli

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:52 PM

salam,

your talking nonsense because there are things which prophet pbuh did himself but the muslims didnt do, and also there are things which muslims do and prophet muhammad pbuh didnt do.

prophet muhamamd pbuh use to pray 50 prayers in a day compared that of 5 of the ummah. when prophet when to miraaj Allah gave the ummah 50 salah to pray which he reduced to 5 for the ummah but he himself kept praying 50, also tahajjud was farz on prophet muhammad pbuh but only 5 salah are farz on muslims.

finally sadaqa or zakat one of the two im not sure, was haram for the ahlebaith and prophet muhammad pbuh, the story of hazrat imam hassan puting a date in his mouth and prophet pbuh taking it out with his finger saying you cannot eat this its haram on you, but the muslims could eat and there were no restrictions.

you need to increase your knowledge brother becasue some things which were allowed for prophet muhamamd pbuh wasnt allowed for his ummah, and somethings which were allowed for the ummah wasnt allowed for prophet muhammad pbuh.

your argement is illogical.

waslam

#38 mohalamine

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:46 PM

786-92-110

Sunni786

GIVE ME ONE EVIDENCE OF ANY OF PROPHET MUHAMMADS WORKS BY WRITING IN HIS LIFE TIME?? THIS IS A CHALLENGE TO THE SHIAS IM WAITING!


Before googling the Facts , take this from ALI (as) and Please Tell us Who taught IMAM Ali (as), Abdallah ibn Mas'ud (r.a)... How to write and read the QUR'AN ? I Guess you have Clues for mu'awiyah's TEACHER ??? !!! :Hijabi: :Hijabi: :Hijabi:

Source : http://www.al-imane....read.php?t=7520

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#39 Khaled Bin Waleed

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 12:42 PM

It means that Prohpet(Saww) could read but He(saww) didn't used to write which doesn't mean that he didn't know how to write?
.
I know how to play cricket but I don't play so u can't say that I don't cricket. Similarly Prohpet(Saww) know how to write but he didn't used to write.


I think you are 100% correct.

How is t possible for us to be able to read and write, and yet the best of creation to not be able to. THe reason he did not write was because some people might have accused him to have written the Quran by himself, rather than for it to be a revelation from God.

#40 MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 01:07 PM

I don't know about anyone but I know I can read and write and won't take as a guide as a prophet as a rasool one who is not supperior to me in this regard, meaning one who can't read or write.

#41 Abbas.

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 01:17 PM

salam,

it is very relevant as it exposes the shias false beliefs that prophet muhammad pbuh was meant to have "written" a document for hazrat umar (ra) before he passed away so that he would not go stray.

we sunnis say prophet pbuh could not write the shias "allege" he could write hence a very important issue.

waslam


Since when did the sunni scholars negate the existence of the event, in Islamic history, where Prophet asked for pen and paper and Umar created a drama by saying that Quran is enough for us ?

All this time, sunni historians have been justifying the event by saying that Umar wished well for the Prophet which is why he didn't want the Prophet to get up and write a will. Now, after 1400 years, you are telling me that the event did not exist according to you sunni folks ? Don't confuse your salaaf ideologies with mainstream sunni muslims' opinion. I come from a majority sunni muslim family so you could have fooled shia muslims, who have no exposure to sunni islam, but as long as I am on this forum, don't even think about confidentally conjecturing a statement on behalf of all sunni muslims.

Fi-Amanillah

#42 wayfarer.

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 01:25 PM

Since when did the sunni scholars negate the existence of the event, in Islamic history, where Prophet asked for pen and paper and Umar created a drama by saying that Quran is enough for us ?

All this time, sunni historians have been justifying the event by saying that Umar wished well for the Prophet which is why he didn't want the Prophet to get up and write a will. Now, after 1400 years, you are telling me that the event did not exist according to you sunni folks ? Don't confuse your salaaf ideologies with mainstream sunni muslims' opinion. I come from a majority sunni muslim family so you could have fooled shia muslims, who have no exposure to sunni islam, but as long as I am on this forum, don't even think about confidentally conjecturing a statement on behalf of all sunni muslims.

Fi-Amanillah


:yaali: YA ALI !

May Allah bless you (even more) bro!



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