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"Quran is enough for us" by Umer is preposterous?


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#1 Aabiss_Shakari

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 02:52 PM

(bismillah)

(salam)

æóÃóÞöãö ÇáÕøóáÇóÉó ØóÑóÝóíö ÇáäøóåóÇÑö æóÒõáóÝðÇ ãøöäó Çááøóíúáö Åöäøó ÇáúÍóÓóäóÇÊö íõÐúåöÈúäó ÇáÓøóÜíøöÆóÇÊö Ðóáößó ÐößúÑóì áöáÐøóÇßöÑöíäó {114}

[Quran 11:114] Establish worship at the two ends of the day and in some watches of the night. Lo! good deeds annul ill-deeds. This is reminder for the mindful.

This verse ordains daily obligatory salat, but does not mention the number of rak-ats, what to be recited and how to be prayed. The Holy Prophet taught the Muslims the exact procedure of each of the 5 times a day obligatory salats. So the statement "husbuna kitabullah" is preposterous.

Any heavenly scripture, particularly the Quran, without the guidance of the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt cannot be understood and followed. Refer to the commentary of al Baqarah: 2 (al kitab), and page 43 for salat and also al Baqarah: 45.


[Quran 4:65] But nay, by thy Lord, they will not believe (in truth) until they make thee judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of that which thou decidest, and submit with full submission.

The opening phrase of this verse (No, by your Lord) asserts that the decision of Allah is final and irrevocable. Allah has decreed that the Holy Prophet's judgements, decisions and directions (concerning all material, spiritual, personal and public matters) should be accepted and carried out by his followers, else profession of their faith would not be genuine and sincere.


"Fima shajara baynahum" gives unlimited powers to the Holy Prophet.


Thumma la yajidu fi anfusihim seals the decisive nature of the Holy Prophet's judgements, decisions and directions. No one has any right whatsoever to disagree with him in thought and action.


Yusallimu taslima implies total surrender to him without any reservation.


From the "feast of the near relatives" to the event at Ghadir Khum the Holy Prophet had clearly given his judgement, decision and direction (under the command of Allah) to his followers to follow Ali, after him, in all material, spiritual, personal and public matters.


The companions of the Holy Prophet, after him, in a great hurry, held conferences in Saqifa bani Sa-ida to choose his successor, by ignoring his clear directions, inspite of this verse. It was a deliberate scheme to deprive the Muslim ummah from the divinely decreed leadership of Ali and his descendants. By doing so they not only violated the commands of Allah and the directions of the Holy Prophet but also condemned the Muslim ummah to an everlasting perdition.


There are two groups of the Holy Prophet's successors:


(1) The twelve Imams, the descendants of Ibrahim, Ismail and the Holy Prophet, well-known to the Muslim ummah, from Imam Ali ibn abi Talib to Imam Muhammad bin Hasan al-Mahdi (refer to Quran 2:124)


(2) The crafty rulers openly opposed and persecuted the twelve Imams and their families, friends and followers. Most of them were drunkards, gamblers and ruffians. To know the true colour of the Umayyid and Abbaside caliphs please refer to Hitti's History of the Arabs or any important book of history written by a Muslim or a non-Muslim historian.



The sincere seekers of truth can easily select their Imams whom they want to follow from among these two groups.


It was the misfortune of the Muslim ummah that they made a wrong decision after the departure of the Holy Prophet. Even at the last moment he asked his companions to bring a sheet of paper and a pen so that he could write that which would prevent them from going astray, after him, but the people around him did not want him to commit his will in writing. One of them said:


"The book of Allah is sufficient for us."

(Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Fat-hul Bari, Tabrani, Tarikh Ahmadi).



This declaration by one of the companions, who also observed that "the old man was in a delirium" was a wilful contravention of this and many such verses of the Quran, because we cannot say that he was an ignorant fool who was not aware of the book of Allah.


The above-noted tradition is known as hadith al-qartas.

#2 yonus

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 03:15 PM

The question : Did khalifa Umar rule islamic world by Quran only or by both quran and sunnah ?

#3 Aabiss_Shakari

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 03:18 PM

The question : Did khalifa Umar rule islamic world by Quran only or by both quran and sunnah?


Sorry to say none of them. There are many instances in the history that he violated clear commands of Quran and Sunnah. Who can forget "Talaq Biddah", "Taraweeh", "Mutah Marriage", and "Tayamum". There are much material in this regard on the net.

#4 3ashiqat-Al-Batoul

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 03:20 PM

well we wouldn't know that 3omar said that if we didn't have ahadith, so its kinda circular logic :P

#5 Aabiss_Shakari

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 03:25 PM

well we wouldn't know that 3omar said that if we didn't have ahadith, so its kinda circular logic :P


Lol Exactly :)

#6 yonus

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 03:35 PM

We should be objective when criticize historic figures .

As he said : If I didn't see the prophet kiss you ( al hajar elaswad ) I would not kiss you . See how he follows sunnah .

#7 toocoool66

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 10:36 PM

assalamoallaikom

no brother aabiss they actually did not meant this

u know what is called nazriyya-e-zaroorat?

i mean when they said that quran is sufficient , the point at that time was that prophet wished to write something which could have prevented the umma from misguidance and they knew for sure that it is quran and ahlubait who will prevent umma from misguidance so they had to say

do not write anything , quran is sufficient for us

but then their love for quran was exposed at fadak when bibi pak said that i m the heir of prophet , now here the problem was that quran was not in their favour so
here that nazarriya again played its role and they said

well prophet said

nahno moashar-ul-anbiya la norath ma tarakna sadaqa


so this mean

quran was sufficient only when it was helping them other wise not

The question : Did khalifa Umar rule islamic world by Quran only or by both quran and sunnah ?


well brother yonas please read the book of history written by tibri
and read about the incident of election of othman

u ll find there that abdur rehman bin aouf asked mola ali
if he accepts the condition that he would rule as per quran , sunnah of prophet and
sunnah of sheikhain

well this means that abdur rehman bin aouf accepted that sunnat of sheikheen was but something other than quran and sunnah of prophet.........

#8 yonus

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 02:58 PM

well this means that abdur rehman bin aouf accepted that sunnat of sheikheen was but something other than quran and sunnah of prophet.........


Sunnat abi bakr and Umar is their interpretations of Quran and Sunnat .

Sunnat abi bakr is agree with his time .

Sunnat Umar agree with his time .

Because Uthman has followed shaikhain sunnah ,he failed .

Imam Ali was smart ( of course ) , he refused to follow sunnat of shaikain ,but his knowledge and ijtihad .

#9 Aabiss_Shakari

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 04:40 PM

Sunnat abi bakr and Umar is their interpretations of Quran and Sunnat Sunnat abi bakr is agree with his time .

Sunnat Umar agree with his time .

Because Uthman has followed shaikhain sunnah ,he failed .

Imam Ali was smart ( of course ) , he refused to follow sunnat of shaikain ,but his knowledge and ijtihad .


A quick question If Sunnah of Prophet (pbuh) was same as Sunnah of Shaikhain then why while deciding the third caliphate. Imam Ali (as) and Uthman bin Afan were asked about three things (1) Quran (2) Sunnah of Prophet (pbuh) (3) Sunnah of Shaikhain . This clearly means that Sunnah of Prophet (pbuh) was something different than Sunnah of Shaikhain :)

Edited by Aabiss_Shakari, 13 February 2009 - 04:41 PM.


#10 toocoool66

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 07:55 AM

assalamoallaikom

Sunnat abi bakr and Umar is their interpretations of Quran and Sunnat .

Sunnat abi bakr is agree with his time .

Sunnat Umar agree with his time .

Because Uthman has followed shaikhain sunnah ,he failed


so as per your statement , even a great sahabi like othman can fail if he follows the sunnat of abubakar and umar :!!!:



so we need to be very careful and should not
i mean not at all follow the sunnat of abubakar and umar
right???

#11 yonus

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 07:58 PM

so as per your statement , even a great sahabi like othman can fail if he follows the sunnat of abubakar and umar


Of cource since abi bakr and umar are not ma'soomeen .

so we need to be very careful and should not
i mean not at all follow the sunnat of abubakar and umar
right???


Certainly . I am not sunni but there is saying before sunnis says : I tell you Rasoolallah said so and so and you say Abi bakr and Umar say so and so !

Sunnis don't begin with shaikhain sayings ,but what prophet said .

Salafis only seems follow sunnat Umar or they took cruelty from him .

#12 s@jaad

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 04:44 AM

The Quran , Ahlulbayt , Sunnah , Ijamaa3 and Qiyas and last but not least Tassawuf .

#13 Aabiss_Shakari

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 06:25 AM

The Quran , Ahlulbayt , Sunnah , Ijamaa3 and Qiyas and last but not least Tassawuf .


I wonder you are right or Umer Bin Khataab?

#14 s@jaad

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 06:32 AM

I wonder you are right or Umer Bin Khataab?



We dont take Relgion from Umar r.a. , we take it From Allah SWT and The prophet PBUH period and anything else is secondry but Core .

#15 toocoool66

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 08:51 AM

assalamoallaikom

sorry brother younas i thought u r sunni :!!!:

#16 Sunni786YaAli

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 12:58 PM

salam,

at that time of course the quran was enough, hazrat umar (ra) was refereing to an ayat from the quran where Allah swt says " hold steadfast on to the rope (quran) of Allah" which means do not create divisions and fithna.

if you are rejecting the words of hazrat umar (ra) then you are also rejecting the words of Allah (astagfirullah)

waslam

#17 toocoool66

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 07:59 PM

assalamoallaikom

at that time of course the quran was enough, hazrat umar ra.gif was refereing to an ayat from the quran where Allah swt says " hold steadfast on to the rope (quran) of Allah" which means do not create divisions and fithna.

if you are rejecting the words of hazrat umar ra.gif then you are also rejecting the words of Allah (astagfirullah)



the verse of sural al imran in ayat 103 is

æóÇÚúÊóÕöãõæÇ ÈöÍóÈúáö Çááøóåö ÌóãöíÚðÇ æóáóÇ ÊóÝóÑøóÞõæÇ

now the word

ÈöÍóÈúáö Çááøóåö

the word mean
ROPE OR CABLE OF Allah

now when u make it quran , what is your source ?
because prophet used to say
that follow quran and ahlubait

what did prophet say about
ÈöÍóÈúáö Çááøóåö?

please share some hadeeth
thanks in advance

#18 Hur14

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 02:02 AM

assalamoallaikom




the verse of sural al imran in ayat 103 is

æóÇÚúÊóÕöãõæÇ ÈöÍóÈúáö Çááøóåö ÌóãöíÚðÇ æóáóÇ ÊóÝóÑøóÞõæÇ

now the word

ÈöÍóÈúáö Çááøóåö

the word mean
ROPE OR CABLE OF Allah

now when u make it quran , what is your source ?
because prophet used to say
that follow quran and ahlubait

what did prophet say about
ÈöÍóÈúáö Çááøóåö?

please share some hadeeth
thanks in advance



I am expecting an interesting reply on that



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