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Zanjeer/Qama according to Ayatollah Sistani


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#1 abbas110

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 01:07 AM

Answers by Ayatollah Sistani representative in UK (40 seconeds onwards in the video)
http://nz.youtube.co...re=channel_page

Question about Zanjeer on Ayatollah Sistani website (question # 6 on the following link)
http://www.sistani.o...n...d=5&cid=992

#2 Hassoon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 05:09 AM

Sayed Mohammed Al-Mousawi is not Seyed Sistani's rep

please correct this error.

#3 Whizbee

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 05:12 AM

^ Yeah. Moosavi was/is Khoei's rep, not Sistani's.

#4 Maula Dha Mallang

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 05:21 AM

isnt maulana kashmiri his rep? hes pro zanjeer zani anyway so it doesnt make much of a difference.

#5 abbas110

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 05:44 AM

Sorry about the mistake. Apparently i cant edit my post anymore....anyways, Zanjeer is considered ok according to Ayatollah Sistani too. And as Syed Mosavi pointed out that more than 100 Ulema from Najaf have written their fatwa about Zanjeer to be ok.

#6 dingdong

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 06:41 AM

Sorry about the mistake. Apparently i cant edit my post anymore....anyways, Zanjeer is considered ok according to Ayatollah Sistani too. And as Syed Mosavi pointed out that more than 100 Ulema from Najaf have written their fatwa about Zanjeer to be ok.

Can you tell me who they are please? Anyways the issue nowadays is not whether zanjeer by itself is haram or not. Fuqaha like Ayatollah Sistani allow hurting yourself to a limit in principle so zanjeer is allowed under it. But the issue nowadays is in the application of another principle which is whether it gives Shiaism a bad image or not. And on this we have our differences. Unless someone's marja doesnt allow hurting yourself, only opinionated people are against zanjeer in principle. They can keep their opinion to themselves and whoever wants to listen to them. But the main issue is whether it gives Shiaism a bad image or not and for that I guess there would be different fatwas.

I can bring a fatwa form Ayatollah Sistani clearly saying that zanjeer is permissible. But does that mean it is permissible in all situations? No. There are other fatawa of Ayatollah Sistani to take into consideration like whether the wilayat e faqih of your place allows it or not and whether it gives Shiaism a bad image. So a fatwa on a single issue (zanjeer being halal or not) is not enough to determine whether we should do it or not because those fatwa deal only with the practice of zanjeer by itself. :)

#7 Whizbee

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 06:45 AM

There are other fatawa of Ayatollah Sistani to take into consideration like whether the wilayat e faqih of your place allows it or not

Really? I have never come across any such fatwa. Please post it here.

#8 Maula Dha Mallang

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 06:50 AM

theres a post right here on shiachat to a vid in which an iranian scholar swears by god that in one year something like 700 scholars did tatbir (qamma zani) on ashura. or something equally impressive sounding.

#9 moula da malang

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 06:55 AM

Really? I have never come across any such fatwa. Please post it here.


nobody in this whole world needs permission off anybody else to do azadari-e-imam-e-mazloom in any way or form.
no molvi has the right to restrict anyone of matam-e-zanjeer, especially these ghair-syeds of iran.
every person has his/her own relation with moula. ayatullah will not go into your kabar with you to answer your questions. You will show your face to moula alone....


wake up

#10 Maula Dha Mallang

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 07:03 AM

i found the post, see for yourselves. id appreciate an iranian speaker to translate & verify whats going on

I will post about the authenticity of the hadeeth of zainab inshaAllah later. But I can tell you that many scholars consider it authentic for various reasons which I will explain.

Also regaurding just blood letting in general, we have narratiosn that the prophet used to have blood taken from his head for medical reasons. He would have some one apply the horn of an animal hat was drilled out and they would suck on one end of it to create suction and cause a peice of flesh/skin on the head to bubble and then this was cut and allowed to bleed. The prophet said that this was very good for your health. Even sunnis agree with this hadeeth, and cupping/bleeding is still used for over all medical health in muslim countries.

But aside from that, I beleive some people are asking why scholars them selves do not practice this?

My question is how do you know that they do not?

Here is a video:



In this video they interview a doctor and several scholars and some lay people about the practice of tatbeer/qama zani. Its in farsi, so I will provide a breif summary of it, and if some one doesnt trust my summary they can have a farsi speaker translate it for them.

In the video they interview a doctor who says that blood letting of the head is the best type of blood letting and has many medical benifits. They also interview several scholars who speak about qama, one in particular who was a student in najaf him self and is a mujtahead, and was a student of Alama Amini ra.gif states that one time a hamla of people doign qama zani and zanjeer zani passed by them and there was a lot of blood and a sunni asked Alama amini if this was jaiz (acceptable) and he claims Alama stated not only is this acceptable but it is Wajib. Also at the end the same scholars says that Ayatulalh Bahjat that one year Ayatullah Isfahani ra.gif issued a fatwa saying that who ever can do qama zani, it is wajib on them to do qama zani this year, he says Ayatullah Bahjat stated that year in najaf more than 700 mujtaheads did qama zani. The scholar swears to god he is telling the truth.

If some one wants to confim they should ask Ayatullah bahjat.


here is the post itself

#11 abbas110

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 03:03 PM

Sayyed Mousavi mentioned a fatwa endorsed by 100 ulema in Najaf about Zanjeer. Could anybody shed light on this 1 pls?

#12 Jondab_Azdi

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 03:18 PM

i found the post, see for yourselves. id appreciate an iranian speaker to translate & verify whats going on



here is the post itself



See: http://www.shiachat....=...t&p=1813025

#13 iraqi_shia

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 05:39 PM

we have all had this conversation at last 5 times.

If all the scholars in the world forbid it, they would still do it.



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