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Does Islam deny redemption belief ?


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#1 yonus

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:33 PM

Salam,

Christians believe that sons of Adam have Inherited Adam's sin and the only salvation for them to Enter paradise " heaven " is through ( redemption ) . Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì has sent his lonly son Jesus christ who is sinless and divine to proceed this mission .

The question : Does Islam deny redemption belief ? Why if the answer Yes .

Some muslims claim that christians belief of redemption was taken from the myth of Persia or Buddah or egypt or greece or Rome I don't know .

What if a muslim believe in crucifiction and redemption , does that make him Kafir ( disbeliever ) ?

Wassalam

#2 Qa'im

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:48 PM

(salam)

There is no atonement in Islam because everyone is responsible for their actions. If I were to kill a man, Allah could choose to either punish me in this life, punish me in the afterlife, or forgive my sin. My sin is not forgiveness based on the alleged death of Jesus (as) but rather by repentance, abstinence, righteous deeds of charity, and finally the great mercy of Allah.

(bismillah)

“Is he who is a believer like unto him who is a sinner? They are not alike! For those who believe and do righteous works, for them are Gardens of Retreat, a welcome (in reward) for what works they did. And as for those who do evil, their abode is the Fire. Whenever they wish to leave, they will be forced back into it, and it will be said to them: Taste the torment of the Fire which you used to reject.” (Qur’an, 32:18-20)

To say that we humans beings, the children of Adam are responsible for what our father Adam has done is quite ridiculous. Why would the wise Judge God punish all of humanity with hellfire for the deed of Adam if Adam himself will not go to hellfire? Atonement also goes against what is written in the Old Testament:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Ezekiel 18:20)

The writer here says that the one who commits and evil sin shall be punished; a father will not be punished on the son's sins and vice versa, thereby making the "original sin" theory inconsistent. Let's keep looking at the verses:


"But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
(Ezekiel 18:21)

Very simple and straight forward, and this is exactly what Islam says. If a sinner turns back to God away from evil, observes God's commandments, makes righteous deeds, this person will not be punished.

With atonement, however, depending on one's sect of Christianity, many actually believe all past and future sins are forgiven if you accept the alleged sacrifice of Jesus (as). Does this create a good society, brother Yonus?

#3 Son of Placid

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 01:16 AM

(salam)

There is no atonement in Islam because everyone is responsible for their actions. If I were to kill a man, Allah could choose to either punish me in this life, punish me in the afterlife, or forgive my sin. My sin is not forgiveness based on the alleged death of Jesus (as) but rather by repentance, abstinence, righteous deeds of charity, and finally the great mercy of Allah.

(bismillah)

“Is he who is a believer like unto him who is a sinner? They are not alike! For those who believe and do righteous works, for them are Gardens of Retreat, a welcome (in reward) for what works they did. And as for those who do evil, their abode is the Fire. Whenever they wish to leave, they will be forced back into it, and it will be said to them: Taste the torment of the Fire which you used to reject.” (Qur’an, 32:18-20)

To say that we humans beings, the children of Adam are responsible for what our father Adam has done is quite ridiculous. Why would the wise Judge God punish all of humanity with hellfire for the deed of Adam if Adam himself will not go to hellfire? Atonement also goes against what is written in the Old Testament:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Ezekiel 18:20)

The writer here says that the one who commits and evil sin shall be punished; a father will not be punished on the son's sins and vice versa, thereby making the "original sin" theory inconsistent. Let's keep looking at the verses:


"But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
(Ezekiel 18:21)

Very simple and straight forward, and this is exactly what Islam says. If a sinner turns back to God away from evil, observes God's commandments, makes righteous deeds, this person will not be punished.

With atonement, however, depending on one's sect of Christianity, many actually believe all past and future sins are forgiven if you accept the alleged sacrifice of Jesus (as) . Does this create a good society, brother Yonus?


Does this create a good society?

No idea who would think they could pray away a future sin. A man who "goes thru the motions" will not be forgiven regardless of religion. What you are implying is that Christians think it's okay if I sin today because I can always ask for forgiveness tomorrow.

Actually, there are some that shallow...

#4 Qa'im

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 01:24 AM

(salam)

A man who "goes thru the motions" will not be forgiven regardless of religion. What you are implying is that Christians think it's okay if I sin today because I can always ask for forgiveness tomorrow.


No, I'm implying that many Christians believe that it is okay to sin, because all who believe in Jesus' sacrifice will be forgiven and be permitted in paradise. In Christianity you should be a good person, but if you believe in atonement, it doesn't matter if you're a sinful Christian: you're off to paradise either way, because Jesus did for your sins. Likewise, if you're an excellent Muslim and do not believe Jesus sacrificed himself, then you will spend an eternity in hell.

In Islam and even in the Old Testament, everyone is responsible for their own actions. You are responsible for the evil you commit in your life, and not what Adam had done.

#5 Ali Haydar

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 05:15 AM

Salam,

Christians believe that sons of Adam have Inherited Adam's sin and the only salvation for them to Enter paradise " heaven " is through ( redemption ) . Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì has sent his lonly son Jesus christ who is sinless and divine to proceed this mission .

The question : Does Islam deny redemption belief ? Why if the answer Yes .

Some muslims claim that christians belief of redemption was taken from the myth of Persia or Buddah or egypt or greece or Rome I don't know .

What if a muslim believe in crucifiction and redemption , does that make him Kafir ( disbeliever ) ?

Wassalam


(salam)
Dear Brother Yonus,
Your description of the Christian belief is essentially correct for the mainstream, although there is some variation on the matter of "original sin" and complete depravity, as well as in what redemption consists.

As for the second question, some Christian concepts of subjective redemption in theory are not really unacceptable to Shi'ite views. But generally speaking vicarious human sacrifice for atonement of sin is not acceptable in Islam. There are several reasons for this. The logical reason is that vicarious human sacrifice as a necessity for forgiveness implies an inadequacy in divine grace. That is, it makes it sound like God's grace was not strong enough to forgive, and something had to be added to it. The Scriptural reason is that vicarious human sacrifice is not a doctrine that is developed in the Qur'an, in tradition, nor in any school of Islam. The psychological reason is that the concept of human sacrifice is odious. It is so pagan in character that it could not be included in a religious system that is based on the rationality that Islam is, nor one that arose in the seventh century, well after the rise of Christianity, at a point in human social evolution at which such a superstition was inconceivable.

The sources of the Christian belief in vicarious human sacrifice for atonement of sin were sought in various pagan traditions, especially by scholars of the late 19th century and early 20th. Such theories are largely rejected today in the field of comparative religion. There are not enough common traits to be convincing, nor are there enough documented connexions. It is far more likely to be a development of the general spectrum of ideas found in the Roman empire in the second to fourth centuries C.E. The input of such sources is thus indirect. The bridge may be the mystery cults, which drew from solar mythologies of dying and resurrected god-men, but recast them in the context of hopes of individual salvation instead of their original fertility cults.

Redemption in the Jewish concept has been attached to the death of an innocent individual. Miriam the sister of Moses (as) and Aaron (as) is a case in point. The redemptive aspect of the martyrdom of Imam Husseyn (as) is admitted in Shi'ite thought and practice. But this is really something far different from the idea that the vicarious human sacrifice atones for sin. That mainsteam Christian concept does not appear possible in Islam as I see it.

The matter of the crucifixion of Jesus (as) is a historical issue, not a belief issue. Belief in the death and even resurrection of Jesus (as) is not the real problem in Islam, but the idea that such a death can atone for sin. However, if you maintain a belief in the historical crucifixion, then you are faced with explaining the Qur'anic ayat that refers to that event, and which most Muslims understand to deny the event altogether.

This is another issue like that of the divinity of Jesus. It goes in circles for ever, and Muslims have cut the discussion off by denying the historical event along with the real problem, the atonement. It's simpler and more elegant as a solution. Anything else is convoluted. Whether a prophet died or not really has no practical effect on faith and action, so it is an empty issue. It's not worth spending one's time on, when life is short and real issues are extensive.

#6 yonus

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 07:40 AM

Alaikumessalam Akh Ali ,Son of Placid and Qaim ,

By the way I have read book ( Islam in the bible ) Ayam wa laiali ( days and nights ) . Jazak Allah khair for this precious (expensive) book .

redemptive aspect of the martyrdom of Imam Husseyn is admitted in Shi'ite thought and practice. But this is really something far different from the idea that the vicarious human sacrifice atones for sin. That mainsteam Christian concept does not appear possible in Islam as I see it.


When this question asked to the sunnis they say It rejects with justice of Allah for he sent a man to carry the sins of people . Shia didn't mention the Justice of Allah in this matter !.

Imam Hussein in the narration says : Allah's will is to see me killed and my family are ( sabaya ) surrenders or presonners .

He also says : If religion of Muhammad doesn't be straight save I got killed then O swords and spears take me .

See how reemption belief is something ( gift ) from God to his children .

#7 Qa'im

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 04:31 PM

(salam)

See how reemption belief is something ( gift ) from God to his children .


(bismillah)

æóÞóÇáóÊö ÇáúíóåõæÏõ æóÇáäøóÕóÇÑóì äóÍúäõ ÃóÈúäóÇÁ Çááøåö æóÃóÍöÈøóÇÄõåõ Þõáú Ýóáöãó íõÚóÐøöÈõßõã ÈöÐõäõæÈößõã Èóáú ÃóäÊõã ÈóÔóÑñ ãøöãøóäú ÎóáóÞó íóÛúÝöÑõ áöãóä íóÔóÇÁ æóíõÚóÐøöÈõ ãóä íóÔóÇÁ æóáöáøåö ãõáúßõ ÇáÓøóãóÇæóÇÊö æóÇáÃóÑúÖö æóãóÇ ÈóíúäóåõãóÇ æóÅöáóíúåö ÇáúãóÕöíÑõ

And [both] the Jews and the Christians say, "We are God's children, and His beloved ones." Say: "Why, then, does He cause you to suffer for your sins? Nay, you are but human beings of His creating. He forgives whom He wills, and He causes to suffer whom He wills: for God's is the dominion over the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and with Him is all journeys' end." (5:18)

#8 baqar

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 07:45 PM

Does Islam deny redemption ?

Islam provides for remorse and repentance which may be accepted by God. One would hope that if repentance is sincere, it would be accepted. But we will only find out our final results when they are handed in to us. No one can pre-empt God's decisions on the outcome of our performance.

And no one can guarantee or assure himself of his own salvation. One can always hope and pray.

The concept of 'being saved' does not exist in Islam. Every man for himself - depending on his conduct and its final evaluation.

There is no such thing as a free pass or a free lunch in Islam.

#9 Abdul-Rahman Brent

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 12:01 AM

In Islam we believe in true redemption via asking Allah(SWT) to forgive our sins and by obeying his rules. The Trinitarian Christians sadly believe in a Pagan system where somehow an alleged "vicarious atonement" needs to be done. They believe Prophet Jesus(as) allegedly needed to die to somehow forgive others sins, this is of course absurd and also even in the Christians corrupted "New Testament" Jesus(as) does not want to die. Matthew 27:46- About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[a] lama sabachthani?"�which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (NIV Bible)

So even the Trinitarian Christians believe that Prophet Jesus(as) was pleading and not wanting to die which goes against their theory of an alleged person who "wanted to die" allegedly somehow to vicarously "forgive us" by some non-comprehendable manner.

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent, 28 November 2008 - 12:02 AM.


#10 Ali Haydar

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 12:59 AM

(salam)
Dear Brother Yonus,
Qa'im and Abdul-Rahman have pretty much covered it.
Redemption is Islam does have a strong strand of intercession, and that's one thing that might be added for emphasis, but it has already been said too.
I was lecturing in New York a few years ago and after the lecture a Shi'ite scholar came to me and asked me if I were familiar with the Christian sect that is most like Islam. I was intrigued. He said they are called Seventh-day Adventists, and they forbid alcohol, pork, and other prohibited meat. Since then I have investigated them to some extent from an Islamic point of view. Today they are a mainstream, Trinitarian church, but that was not true in the beginning. They are practically the only Christian church that adhered to the Bible literally while rejecting every point of the Christian creeds except the virgin birth and the resurrection of the body. They rejected redemption by vicarious sacrifice on the cross as well. Their 1872 statement of faith states that the atonement was not made on the cross. While they did not deny the crucifixion, as do Muslims, they considered that the atonement was made by Jesus' (as) prayers of intercession in heaven. This approaches the Islamic belief in the intercession of Muhammad (SAWS) on the Day of Judgement. So there is at least one Christian group that has had, at least in the past, a belief about redemption based on the Bible that is similar to Islamic views.
You can make of that what you like, but to me it indicates that the mainstream Christian beliefs about redemption are not the only way of reading the Bible. There are other ways of reading the Bible that are closer to Islam. Being attracted by Jesus (as) and the Bible does not mean that you are attracted by Christian heresies. I knew a man who converted to Christianity because he had a dream of Jesus (as) who healed him of an incurable disease. He thought he must therefore become a Christian out of gratitude. What nonsense! Jesus (as) is, after all, a prophet of Islam. Redemption as such does not mean we have to start taking human sacrifice seriously.

#11 yonus

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:15 AM

The question ya Akh Ali , Baqar and Qaim and Abdurrahman,

What will I lose as a muslim if I believe in crucifixion and redemption ? Finally it is between me and Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì .

I thought that belief in crucifixion and redemption makes christian do whatever he likes since he is saved but that is not true at all if the christian follow the teachings .

And so me as a muslim I practice my religion teachings and at the same time I believe in crucifixion and redemption .

#12 Ali Haydar

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:46 AM

The question ya Akh Ali , Baqar and Qaim and Abdurrahman,

What will I lose as a muslim if I believe in crucifixion and redemption ? Finally it is between me and Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì .

I thought that belief in crucifixion and redemption makes christian do whatever he likes since he is saved but that is not true at all if the christian follow the teachings .

And so me as a muslim I practice my religion teachings and at the same time I believe in crucifixion and redemption .


(salam)
In my view, all Shi'ites believe in redemption.
In my view, the crucifixion is an historical question, not relevant to faith. If you can reconcile the Qur'an with the belief in the crucifixion as an historical event, I don't see a problem. It's rather unusual, but it's not heresy. Muslims historically tend to be open to ideas, but sticklers for practice. Believing in the crucifixion is just an excentricity, but woe be if you start saying you don't have to pray or fast!
I hope you're not trying to be provocative here!

#13 Qa'im

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 07:48 AM

(salam)

What will I lose as a muslim if I believe in crucifixion and redemption ? Finally it is between me and Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì .


Muslims also believe in the Qur'an, and the Qur'an does not back this belief. Islam says everyone is responsible for their own sins, and you could either repent and face mercy, or pay the punishment in the hereafter. There's no Jesus who will die for you and come and save you from YOURSELF in the afterlife, I am sorry. So, as a Muslim, you will lose Islam.

My view of course.

#14 IloveImamHussain

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 11:50 AM

The question : Does Islam deny redemption belief ?

Will someone be good enough to enlighten me with the Christian view on redemption ?

Thanks

#15 Ali Haydar

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 01:28 PM

Will someone be good enough to enlighten me with the Christian view on redemption ?

Thanks


(salam)
Dear brother I love...
The word redemption is used in two ways by Christians. The more popular usage refers to salvation through the death and resurrection of Jesus (as). As a theological term, it is one of several explanations of the work that Jesus (as) is supposed to have done for humanity on the cross. All of these explanations rely on metaphors of some kind. Redemption relies on the metaphor of redeeming a slave, that is, buying a slave's freedom. The Christian concept is that humankind are slaves to sin or Satan, and that the death of Jesus (as) paid the redemption price to free humankind from that slavery.

#16 IloveImamHussain

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 02:01 PM

(salam)
Dear brother I love...
The word redemption is used in two ways by Christians. The more popular usage refers to salvation through the death and resurrection of Jesus (as). As a theological term, it is one of several explanations of the work that Jesus (as) is supposed to have done for humanity on the cross. All of these explanations rely on metaphors of some kind. Redemption relies on the metaphor of redeeming a slave, that is, buying a slave's freedom. The Christian concept is that humankind are slaves to sin or Satan, and that the death of Jesus (as) paid the redemption price to free humankind from that slavery.

(salam) And thanks brother, for the explanation.

Sometimes I wonder why people waste their time discussing the after-life when they could expend the same effort in improving their lives in this world - and those of others - to better effect.

Islam does accept that God will forgive many of our sins. But the mechanics of that forgiveness is not entirely clear and should not be a subject of major concern. All we should be worried about is how to do our best and leave the rest to God.

But the Christian theory of redemption, as outlined by brother Ali Haydar, is completely alien to Islam – complete and utter nonsense.

#17 yonus

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 02:24 PM

(salam)



Muslims also believe in the Qur'an, and the Qur'an does not back this belief. Islam says everyone is responsible for their own sins, and you could either repent and face mercy, or pay the punishment in the hereafter. There's no Jesus who will die for you and come and save you from YOURSELF in the afterlife, I am sorry. So, as a Muslim, you will lose Islam.

My view of course.


Aleikumessalam,

I am talking about the first sin of Adam which makes me a sinner . It was like AIDS disease transmitted from Adam to his children ,therefore Allah has sent another Adam but without a sin to remove the sins of the world as ( tathir ) for people to enter the Jannah otherwise I will be hanged between Al jannah and jahannam .

#18 IloveImamHussain

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 02:38 PM

I am talking about the first sin of Adam which makes me a sinner.

Why on earth would it make you or anyone a sinner ?

Moral turpitude and physical ailment are two different things. Sin and sickness are poles apart.

Genes can pass on both but not necessarily.

There is absolutely no plausible reason why Adam's fault should, of necessity, pass onto his descendents.

#19 postmaster1923

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 02:57 PM

The Quran is quite clear that no man should bear the burden of the sin of another man. This is not the same as suffering consequences of a sin. If my parents were neglectful and sinful, I would suffer consequences of their actions, but their actions in no way count as my sins. There is no place in Islam for the Christian concept of "original sin", which is, in fact, refuted in the Bible in several places.

#20 Ali Haydar

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:02 PM

(salam) And thanks brother, for the explanation.

Sometimes I wonder why people waste their time discussing the after-life when they could expend the same effort in improving their lives in this world - and those of others - to better effect.

Islam does accept that God will forgive many of our sins. But the mechanics of that forgiveness is not entirely clear and should not be a subject of major concern. All we should be worried about is how to do our best and leave the rest to God.

But the Christian theory of redemption, as outlined by brother Ali Haydar, is completely alien to Islam – complete and utter nonsense.


(salam)
Dear Brother I love...
I'm afraid I agree with you. We don't need to speculate on the process of divine forgiveness. We need to hear and do what God tells us to, because He tells us to.
The Christian theory is completely alien to Islam, how very true. Yet Islam, Judaism and Christianity do have one thing in common, the realization that God is merciful.

#21 Qa'im

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:29 PM

(salam)

Aleikumessalam,

I am talking about the first sin of Adam which makes me a sinner . It was like AIDS disease transmitted from Adam to his children ,therefore Allah has sent another Adam but without a sin to remove the sins of the world as ( tathir ) for people to enter the Jannah otherwise I will be hanged between Al jannah and jahannam .


This idea that YOU as a human being are responsible for the sin of Adam (as) is a misunderstanding, brother Yonus. The Jews never understood Adam's sin as being a sin which sends all of mankind to hell, simply because the concept is not supported by the text. On the contrary, the Bible says:

"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself. But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die." (Ezekiel 18:20-21)

These two verses are saying that the one who sins will be punished by Allah, however the son will not bear the punishment of his father's sins, nor should a father bear the punishment of his son's sins. Perfectly simple and fair, is it not? It goes on to say that anyone who turns back to Allah (istaghfar) will not be destroyed.

Similarly, this verse can be applied to father Adam. Why should we be responsible because he ate the fruit? According to the Bible, Adam was already punished for this - not with hell, by the way. So why do we need to go to hell for something he did, and he stays safe from hell? It's very simple and even the Bible refutes original sin concept. By the way, if you're still a Muslim and if you still believe in the Qur'an, then you would believe Adam (as) was FORGIVEN for this sin.

(bismillah)

íóÇ Ãóåúáó ÇáúßöÊóÇÈö ÞóÏú ÌóÇÁßõãú ÑóÓõæáõäóÇ íõÈóíøöäõ áóßõãú ßóËöíÑðÇ ãøöãøóÇ ßõäÊõãú ÊõÎúÝõæäó ãöäó ÇáúßöÊóÇÈö æóíóÚúÝõæ Úóä ßóËöíÑò ÞóÏú ÌóÇÁßõã ãøöäó Çááøåö äõæÑñ æóßöÊóÇÈñ ãøõÈöíäñ

Here is a verse which I think is important for you to read brother:

Ãóáóãú ÊóÚúáóãú Ãóäøó Çááøåó áóåõ ãõáúßõ ÇáÓøóãóÇæóÇÊö æóÇáÃóÑúÖö íõÚóÐøöÈõ ãóä íóÔóÇÁ æóíóÛúÝöÑõ áöãóä íóÔóÇÁ æóÇááøåõ Úóáóì ßõáøö ÔóíúÁò ÞóÏöíÑñ

Do you not know that God's is the dominion over the heavens and the earth? He chastises whom He wills, and He forgives whom He wills: for God has the power to will anything. (5:40)

God says in many places that those who believe in Him and do rights of good and charity, you will be admitted to paradise. Never does he say you are responsible for the sin of Adam, nor does he say you must believe in Jesus (as) as a sacrifice.

If you do not believe in the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), please tell me, brother Yonus. This way I can exclusively use the Bible to back my proofs instead of the Qur'an. It is up to you.

#22 yonus

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:53 PM

Salam I love ,and the other brothers ,

See here what the prophet said about something belong to this subject :

“Choose (a suitable bearer) for your sperm-drops because blood will tell”.

“The ruins’ green crop” present in the Tradition (by the Prophet)".

Some of the moral qualities are transferred in a compulsory way exactly as the physical qualities do.

Hence, paying attention to this point makes one careful in choosing a good plantation in which there is a few of these negative hereditary qualities, and it is said that drinking alcohol for example, has an effect on generations to come.

#23 Qa'im

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:02 PM

(salam)

These are separate examples brother Yonus. Of course there are many factors, such as marriage, which will most definitely effect our children. But why should the human race be held responsible and threatened with hell because of the sin of Adam? What about the period between Adam (as) and Jesus (as), were all of those people sent to suffer because of Original Sin?

#24 IloveImamHussain

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 12:23 PM

Some of the moral qualities are transferred in a compulsory way exactly as the physical qualities do.

Some, yes, but not all. And certainly not always.

It is quite possible for a good father to have a bad son and for a bad father to have a good son. Does that meet with your experience ?

#25 yonus

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 06:45 AM

Some, yes, but not all. And certainly not always.

It is quite possible for a good father to have a bad son and for a bad father to have a good son. Does that meet with your experience ?


Assume that Jesus was died on the cross and raised after three days , what that indicates in your opinion ( for what the redemption ) ?

Imam Hussein according to shia was sacrificed himself for religion to be straight .

Christians claim that religion without crucifixion and redemption for people sins , christianity wouldn't be as one of greatest religions in the world .



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