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Who Are Alevi And What Are Their Belief ?

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(salam)

About the wine drinking among Alevis: among the traditional ones it has strict rules.

-limited quantity

-drunkenness is forbidden

-only drunk during the cem meeting

I know a few authentic alevis who have good akhlaq and a decent life style. I don't agree with the wine drinking but I just think stories about them shouldn't be exagerated.

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SalaamuWalaykium

About the wine drinking among Alevis: among the traditional ones it has strict rules.

-limited quantity

-drunkenness is forbidden

-only drunk during the cem meeting

their allowed 2 drink?

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Do the Alawis believe in the Prophet (p.)? On what issues do they agree and disagree with us? Do they believe in the godhood of Imam Ali (a.s.)…Therefore, is it permissible for a Muslim woman to marry a Alawi man? 2/16/2006 11:28:57 AM

A: Some of them declare that they are Muslim-Shiites, they believe in the Prophet (p.), and perform the prayer, but they disagree with us on some subdivisions of Islamic law, whereas, some of them do not believe in that. Therefore, the Muslim woman should study the doctrine of the man whom she wants to marry.

(sourse: bayynat.org.lb)

w/s

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My auncle married an allawi lady from syria and what ive seen from them to be honest i dont know what their faith is. They dont beleive women have souls therefore just dissapear and are not required to learn or practice their religion. They believe in reincarnation. they believe they become stars in the next life while christians and muslims are reincarnated as animals. they drink alchohol . they believe ali ra is god incarnate. they believe god is a trinity and the trinity includes Ali ra Muhamed saaw and salman the persian ra. Ali however is the creater part of the trinity. They believe the koran was corrupted. This list goes on and on. These are kaffirs of the worst type. mind u the shias never recognised them historically and wouldnt even let them attend shool at qom. but after 1979 politics played a big role. If a alawi tells u he doesnt believe Ali ra is god he will be lying to you. they believe this 100%.

however there is a small group of alawis who look more like the twelvers maybe totaling 15%. these i wont call them kaffirs cause i dont know much about them. This group prays etc

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what i have heard is that yes there are different types of alawis and (correct me if wrong) that the way their name became "alawi" is because back in the old days whoever would say they were shia they would get killed. so these shia moved from the village to the mountains and changed their names to "alawi" because they were very fond of imam ali (as) and he was the imam of their time...

thats just what ive heard, i cant be sure because im not alawi and i cant just judge out of nowhere:)

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I go to a Alevi turkish mosque. There are no other 'arabic' shia's around my area.. or at least not that i know off, they must be really good in taqqiyah. They are just normal shi'a and they have a turkish aalim who went to Najaf. But there is another so called 'mosque' where the place is filled with all these pictures of the Imams (as) and the men and women sit there drinking coffee and smoke all day.. so I don't really know how to name them.. the ones that I go to tell me that it doesn't care about what you call it.. at the end of the day it's either you're a mumin or not

The Nusayris Beleive in All the 12 imams of ithna Ashari Creed,They Beleive in One Allah ,and a Hierarchy of muhammad,Ali and Salman in the Esoteric Order.They Largely since Recent Years have Adopted Twelver fiqh .

This is not Strange,since Salman Was the angel Gabriel(Jibril)(A.S) in Human Form According to Some Shia's (the Nizari Sect)and his Place in Sufism is Well-Known,He was Also of Ahl Ul-Bayt.

they are the followers of Abu Shu'ayb Muhammad ibn Nusayr a Pupil of both Sayyed Ali al-Hadi and Sayyed Hasan Al-Askari and he basically Proclaimed to Be the Bab to Hasan al-Askari and the Muhamamd bn Hassan but he Reejcted the Authority of the 4 Deputies .

Uthman ibn Sa'id al-Asadi,Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Uthman,Abul Qasim Husayn ibn Ruh al-Nawbakhti,Abul Qasim Husayn ibn Ruh al-Nawbakhti.

This si Not Straneg since their Were 20 SEef-Proclaimed deputies of the Muhamamd Ibn Hassan.

they Do Taqiyah Strongly,and theres a Big Similarity on Faith,As their Druze Brethren Regarding the Triad of Muhammad,Ali and Salman and the Order of Intellects for them only the Shaykh know the inner most Teachings of the Sect,While The druze only their Uqqal have the Sects Writings.

Both Dont Allow conversion and both Kill the Apostate .Both Exclude the one who Marries Outside of the Faith.

Aisha-999 Said :''''My auncle married an allawi lady from syria ''''So Your Uncle marrried a Pagan?How is that Possible?

Also they dont Marry Outside the Faith,except Facing Deep Consequences,As far to my Knowledge Even Takfir is Pronounced On Them.

Also The Alevi/Bekhtashi of turkey Are not the Same,But both Groups Beleive in 12 Imams and Exxegeratte their status,are Secret,See Sharia As a Batini Thing.

This doesnt Render them Kafir,Since They Accept Sharia,But just Differ in Interpretation.

Sawm is of the heart they say ''the more important fast is that of mind and heart, where one abstains from unworthy concerns and worldly thoughts, and can be broken by succumbing to the base ego, and its insatiable desires''''

or for Hajj its a ''''''journey to and discover an inner reality of life''''' So they Do not Reject sharia At All,the Batini School only Gives it a different Interpretation.

In The End,Twelvers,Akhbaris,Usulis,Alawi,alevi,Druze,Nizari Ismaili ,Bohra Ismaili Are all Part of the Jafari School of Thought and that Should Be Respected.

I guess nobody Read the ''ámman Message'''''''' ??????

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Arabic Alawis are different religion group. Alevi/Bektashi people are mostly in Anatolia (Turkish, Zaza and Kurdish) and Balkans (Albanians, Macedonians etc.).

 

Hadji Baktash is respected by Alevi people and Bektashi people, but there are differences between Baktashi and Alevi people as well.

 

I think this distinction became more during the Safavid-Ottoman war, Alevi people mostly were on Shah Ismail's side. Alevis do not cliam Ali is a god but Ali is a deep symbol for them, he is the right one but they suffered him, so that makes him special.

 

Alevism has many common  bleives with Shias, but they are also very different from Shias:

 

* Alevis do not for hadj to Macca, as Hajdi Baktash says: "Whatever you are looking for within yourself, not in Jarusalem, Macca or Hadj"

 

* Alevis do not do mosques, they have their own temples called "Cem", they have a kind of spitural dance called Semah which they claim as it is namaz as different from most of other Moslems.

 

* Instead of Quran, they mostly heal "Deyiş" during their worship, Deyiş is something like a folkloric-religious poems. They sing deyiş with baghlama.

 

* The most of Alevi communities claim that they should not separate men and women during worship.

 

* And Orthodox Alevism, devorcing is probited, stealing, commiting adultry, getting married with a non-alevi can make you "Düşkün" means nobody in the community would accept you.

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Alavi, at least in Iran is a common last name Sayyeds(of any branch) take to describe that they are in fact Sayyids. But the last name Alavi has nothing to do with the Alevi/Alawi thingy. 

 

PS: I just realized, the person above me revived a 5 year old thread............

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I think this distinction became more during the Safavid-Ottoman war, Alevi people mostly were on Shah Ismail's side.

 

Some of the Bektashi Order supported the Safavids or at least preferred to seek the protection of the Safavid Shahs. During the Ottoman-Safavid era, the Alevi-Bektashi split into two branches: A Sunni branch which courted the Ottoman Sultans and were associated with the Janissaries and a Shi'a branch or group of branches who supported the Safavids. More Sunnified Alevis just call themselves Alevis and in the Ottoman period the phrase "the Alevi path" was pretty much used as a synonym for Sufism since Ali (as) is seen in nearly all traditional schools of Sufism as the door to Muhammad's esoteric mysteries. So really, during the Ottoman period, the term "Alevi" was a very loose term. Those Alevis whom the Ottoman Empire saw as suspicious were those they considered "Qizilbash" and thus associated with the Safavids.

 

Alevis do not for hadj to Macca, as Hajdi Baktash says: "Whatever you are looking for within yourself, not in Jarusalem, Macca or Hadj"

 

While this is true, I think this is a position that developed over time and probably doesn't reflect Hajj Bektashi Veli's as much as people might think. The traditional accounts of Hajj Bektash Veli's life as told in his Vilayatname which has been preserved by the Bektashi monasteries in fact mentions his traveling to Mecca and visiting Mt. Arafat. Supposedly Hajj Bektash had the ability to teleport anywhere instantaneously, to turn into a dove or even appear in two places at once and on at least one occasion or more he visited Mecca or appeared to pilgrims there. The lack of Alevi concern for Mecca has a lot to do with the fact that pilgrimage has never been an option for many of them and also because the teachings of Hajj Bektash emphasize the inner pilgrimage, but this does not imply a lack of reverence for Mecca as a holy place among Bektashi or Alevi, as there are still members of these communities who do make these physical pilgrimages, as it is the birthplace of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and contains many holy places. Likewise, Bektashi and Alevi sometimes make pilgrimage to the shrines in Karbala and Najaf and tekkes/monasteries have existed in these places and I believe there may still be one Bektashi tekke in Karbala today.

 

* Alevis do not do mosques, they have their own temples called "Cem", they have a kind of spitural dance called Semah which they claim as it is namaz as different from most of other Moslems.

 

Yes and no. At least among Bektashi Order, the performance of namaz/salat according to Ja'fari law is practiced. Much of the lack of focus on traditional prayer comes from the secularization of Alevi communities in many parts of Turkey and Anatolia as well as separation between communities with different degrees of legal practice. There are also some modern Alevis who don't consider themselves to be Muslim. Among Bektashi and certain Qizilbash, both the sema and namaz are done, but namaz is more often seen as a private affair anyway whereas the sema is a more community affair. So it's unlikely you will ever see Alevis perform public prayer at a Cem house or a mosque, though some Alevis attend local mosques as a show of solidarity with non-Alevi Muslims.

 

* Instead of Quran, they mostly heal "Deyiş" during their worship, Deyiş is something like a folkloric-religious poems. They sing deyiş with baghlama.

 

This is also wrong. Most Alevi regard the Qur'an as their sacred book. The tales of past Alevi holy men and dervishes and the poems of famous Alevis only form a secondary more fluid canon. The Alevi and Bektashi Order also believe the Qur'an has an outer and inner meaning and tend to place greater emphasis on an inner and more philosophical understanding of the Qur'an. From the official website of the Bektashi:

 

The Bektashi revere the Qur’an, and the blessed words of the Prophet Muhammad. No rule of the order may deviate from the Sacred Book and Hadith al-Sharif. The veneration for the Prophet further extends to all members of his family, the Ahl al-Bayt. Expressions of love for his family occur in many Qur’anic verses: “Say (O Muhammad): ‘I do not ask for any reward except love of my family.’” (Sura 42:23) When the companions asked the Messenger of Allah who his family was, he replied: “They are Fatima, ‘Ali, Hasan and Husayn.”

And also “Allah’s wish is but to remove uncleanness from you, O people pf the House, and to cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.” (Sura 33:33)

 

http://bektashiorder.com/basic-principles

 

It is true that there are some Alevi who don't revere the Qur'an (such as those who think Alevism is a different religion from Islam) and there are those who are more secular and see Alevism as a cultural thing and thus do not study the Qur'an very much, only attending Cem for the Sema, but traditionally Alevism has always revered the Qur'an as their sacred book and this is upheld by many if not most of the major Alevi religious authorities within and outside the Bektashi Order today.

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On 3/24/2008, 9:59:33, ProudMuslim said:

Very detailed explanation, I agree with all your points. Bektashi's are also one of the most hated religious minorities in Turkey. They are suppressed by the Sunni majority but they could still be considered Muslim. However, the Bektashi in Albania are without a doubt kafir's they have deviated even further from original Bektashism.

Lol. The Bektashis in Albania follow pretty much the same methods as the ones in Turkey and Azerbaijan. And aren't "kafirs". They may have some strange beliefs. But they're still Muslim through and through. As they beleive in  Tawhid, Allah. Angels, The Prophets (made from light like angels), The Books etc. With a Strong tradition of Muhammad's sunnah in their own writings passed down by generations of their recognized Awliya.

Alevi-Bektashi are one of the last sectarian strongholds of reason and spirituality in the Muslim world. 

Alevi-Bektashis are unfortunately widely hated and discriminated against. Much like many other Tariqa. But what can you say? The world is paradise for the kafr and a prison for the believer ;) 

Edited by Sol 7

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9 hours ago, ChristianVisitor said:

Aren't Alevis mystical "Sufi" brand of Shiism?

In a sense, the thing is many Alevi don't identify as "Shi'a". From what I can tell in my studies, in the Ottoman period, you had this idea of the "Alevi" path which was synonymous pretty much with the path of a Sufi. But many of the Alevi beliefs come from the same Sufi and Shi'a sources that inform much of Shi'a spirituality.

I think I mentioned this, but the Janissaries followed "Alevism" through the Bektashi Order, and the Janissaries were loyal to the Sunni Ottomans. Then you had the Bektashi and Qizilbash tribes who supported the Shi'a Safavids who were more decidedly Shi'a themselves but also followed "Alevism". Many of the Alevi in Turkey are members of the Bektashi Order or come from the Qizilbash tribes who lived in that area and never migrated to Safavid Iran. So the extent to which the Alevi identify personally with the Sunnis or Shi'a or as a separate branch of Islam or as a current that includes both Shi'a and Sunni leaning groups of people is up for discussion and is what has made it hard for Alevis and scholars of Turkish Alevis. Most Alevis seem to identify themselves as separate from both Sunni and Shi'a while a significant minority identifies themselves with the Iranian and Iraqi Shi'a. Another group sees Alevism more as a philosophy that acts as a bridge between Sunni and Shi'a through a common Ali-centric spirituality. And there are a minority of Alevis who don't even see Alevism as part of Islam (which personally doesn't make sense to me since Alevi literally means "follower of Ali" and the Alevi "trinity" is Allah-Muhammad-Ali).

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Paradoxically, while the current middle-eastern war has brought a great schism between shias and sunnis, it had the opposite effect of bringing closer the different sects and offshoots of shiism, at least politically if not religiously. today, many alevis celebrate hezbollah's victories in Syria, and support Assad. also, in some social media sites I see alevis supporting the Iranian governemnt and it's military.
this is in complete contrast with the 2006-2011 era, when two of the three most favoured politcians amongst Sunnis were Shia (Ahmadinejad, and Nasrallah). back then, orthodox Iranian/Iraqi twelver Shiism was colser to Sunnism than to any other sect. I remember the day when Iranian TV celebrated Erdogan's victory against Alevi-backed socialists and kemalists. in fact Orthodox Twelver's were more hostile towards other Shia sects and offshoots than towards Sunnis.

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hi brothers, I am an alevi turkmen

We also have 4 door 40 authorities

1) Seriat

2) Tarikat

3) Marifet 

4) Hakikat

Alevilikte Üçler: Hz. Allah, Hz. Muhammed ve Hz. Ali'dir.

Beşler: Hz. Muhammed, Hz. Ali, Hz. Fatıma, Hz. Hasan ve Hz. Hüseyin'dir.

Yediler: Bunlar yedi ulu aşıklardır: Hatayi, Nesimi, Fuzuli, Kul Himmet, Virani, Yemini ve Pir Sultan Abdal'dır.

Oniki İmamlar: Hz. Ali Kerramallahü Veche, İmamı-ı Hasan, İmamı-ı Hüseyin, İmam-ı Zeynel Abidin, İmam-ı Muhammed Bakır, İmam-ı Cafer Sadık, İmam-ı Musa Kazım, İmam-ı Ali Rıza, İmam-ı Muhammed Taki, İmam-ı Aliy'yül Naki, İmam-ı Hasan el-Askeri, İmam-ı Muhammed Mehdi.

Alevilikte Kırklar : Alevi inancına göre Kırklar, Tanrının
ruhları yarattığında yaratılan, her devir ve zamanda yeryüzünde bulunduklarına inanılan ermişlerdir. Bu kırk ermiş dünyanın çeşitli zamanlarında insan suretinde yeryüzüne gelmişler, ölümlerinden sonra da değişik donlarda(başka kimlikte) yaşadıkları ve dünya durdukça da yaşayacakları kabul edilmektedir. Kırkların 23'ü erkek 17'si kadındır. Hiçbir kaynakta kırkının isimleri bulunamamaktadır.

Alawi and alevi is different

We pray at home to Allah and anywhere as the Quran states, we gather also for Semah during Tursday nights as thursday is friday and birth of Hz Muhammed. 

 

yes most alevis dont accept converts as we are seyit from Hz huseyins and turkmen bloodline; this is called dedeler

however you can be a bektashi. 

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On 4/2/2016 at 0:16 PM, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

hi brothers, I am an alevi turkmen

We also have 4 door 40 authorities

1) Seriat

2) Tarikat

3) Marifet 

4) Hakikat

Alevilikte Üçler: Hz. Allah, Hz. Muhammed ve Hz. Ali'dir.

Beşler: Hz. Muhammed, Hz. Ali, Hz. Fatıma, Hz. Hasan ve Hz. Hüseyin'dir.

Yediler: Bunlar yedi ulu aşıklardır: Hatayi, Nesimi, Fuzuli, Kul Himmet, Virani, Yemini ve Pir Sultan Abdal'dır.

Oniki İmamlar: Hz. Ali Kerramallahü Veche, İmamı-ı Hasan, İmamı-ı Hüseyin, İmam-ı Zeynel Abidin, İmam-ı Muhammed Bakır, İmam-ı Cafer Sadık, İmam-ı Musa Kazım, İmam-ı Ali Rıza, İmam-ı Muhammed Taki, İmam-ı Aliy'yül Naki, İmam-ı Hasan el-Askeri, İmam-ı Muhammed Mehdi.

Alevilikte Kırklar : Alevi inancına göre Kırklar, Tanrının
ruhları yarattığında yaratılan, her devir ve zamanda yeryüzünde bulunduklarına inanılan ermişlerdir. Bu kırk ermiş dünyanın çeşitli zamanlarında insan suretinde yeryüzüne gelmişler, ölümlerinden sonra da değişik donlarda(başka kimlikte) yaşadıkları ve dünya durdukça da yaşayacakları kabul edilmektedir. Kırkların 23'ü erkek 17'si kadındır. Hiçbir kaynakta kırkının isimleri bulunamamaktadır.

Alawi and alevi is different

We pray at home to Allah and anywhere as the Quran states, we gather also for Semah during Tursday nights as thursday is friday and birth of Hz Muhammed. 

 

yes most alevis dont accept converts as we are seyit from Hz huseyins and turkmen bloodline; this is called dedeler

however you can be a bektashi. 

I have a huge amount of respect for Alevis myself. I find your Aqida and Shari'ah noble and enlightened. And Haji Bektash Veli a righteous and pious man. Mashallah.

Not that I want to, I being a Naqshbandi Sufi, but how would one convert to the Bektashi Tariqat? And why do Bektashi allow reverts but Alevis don't if your bekeifs are the same?

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Brothers just to confirm, there is no is sunni bektashi, as this than will go against their main belief of Alevi and Bektashi.

The ottomans did however forced sunni imams into dernekler.

They always force their way into our faith

Edited by AleviTurkmenKhorasan

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7 hours ago, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

Some Alevis accept reverts however, reverts cannot be "dede", or "pir". 

You have to be from the prophets bloodline, Ahlibeyt.  

Brother try to visit a local Bektashi dergah, I am sure they would love to accept yourselves.

 

I would love to. :) but there isn't one nearby. I hope I will make it to visit one someday inshallah. 

Shi'ism in general is very interesting. And as a more or less Sunni Sufi. I Admire Ali and Hussain very much. And the mysticism of the 12 Imams and the philosophical concepts it teaches. 

But some Twelver Shi'a seem very hardline. And legalistic. And really hate Sufis. 

Alevi-Bektashi seem very close to my spiritual ideals and seem peaceful. I'd like to visit a tekke to visit my Bektashi brothers. But they're all Albanian where I am. Would it be a good idea to learn Albanian?

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Brother I am not sure... 

Probably yes, as long as they say what Haci Bektash Veli said.

Try to learn from an Albanian bektashi and see if it is similar to haci bektashi teachings, if yes than yep it is okay to learn from them.

There is secrets in this world which the Bektashis/Alevis explain but you have to follow all the steps in order to understand 

Sharia

Tarikat 

Marifet 

Hâkikâtte 

It's really great brother you want to learn, may Allah guide you.

Be careful though, as the deeper you go and believe the more tricks seytan will try to do, to lead you to astray.

My advice stay on track and read from the original sources.

Ignore them 12ers etc 

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On 4/11/2016 at 0:28 AM, Sol 7 said:

I have a huge amount of respect for Alevis myself. I find your Aqida and Shari'ah noble and enlightened. And Haji Bektash Veli a righteous and pious man. Mashallah.

Not that I want to, I being a Naqshbandi Sufi, but how would one convert to the Bektashi Tariqat? And why do Bektashi allow reverts but Alevis don't if your bekeifs are the same?

Bektashi and Alevi are not the same thing. For many Alevis who aren't part of the Bektashi order, there's a sense that the Bektashi are sometimes trying to impose themselves as Alevism's clergy. Non-Bektashi Alevi don't accept converts and are led by sayids. Bektashi, however, are different in that they have more standard religious hierarchy of laity and clergy. See http://www.bektashiorder.com/organization-of-the-bektashi-order

The Bektashi community is comprised of all those who believe in the Bektashi doctrine and follow its 
principles. The Bektashi community encompasses the following grades of individuals: ashiks, muhibs 
and what may be termed the "clergy".

The ashiks are all those who have inherited Bektashism having been born into a Bektashi family or those who appreciate the Path of Haji Bektash and work for it but who have nonetheless not taken the ritual of initiation [nasib, bay'at]. The ashiks are the highest supportive power in the Bektashi community. They are its faithful followers and they enjoy the same rights as the initiated members in the spiritual management. They are allowed to vote on regulations; they can participate in meetings; they work, help and sacrifice for the welfare of Bektashi Path.

The ashiks cooperate with the initiated members in deciding on the leadership and nominating the authorities of their tekkes. Together with the muhibs they have the right to organize Bektashi associations, to found tekkes, or to do any other type of work for the good of Bektashism. In a word, they are its underpinning and its essence.

The muhibs are all those followers of the Way who have the freedom to enjoy all the above mentioned rights and privileges and are spiritually bound to Bektashism through the ritual of initiation.

The Bektashi are a Sufi Order that is Alevi in its aqeedah and may thus be called Alevi themselves, but they aren't the whole Alevism itself. They're just one of the more organized groups of those who identify as Alevis

 

 

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^ Wrong bro

Alevi Bektashi is the same, Fact.

Haci Bektashi Veli is seyid too

Stop separating Alevis into other groups, Alevis follow Haci bektashi Veli, Fact.

Ottomans segregation and prosecution seems to be working.

Every semah and cem consists of the following

Hz Ali 

Haci bektash veli 

Ataturk 

Bektashi is an offspring of Alevi, to be honest Alevi came after around 1600s 

We were Kizilbaslilar. 

We believe the same 4 doors and 40 authorities 

Haci bektashi Veli was from khorasan too just like us.

Stop separating us please and stop believing in false info.

 

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