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Hur

Court Case In Uk Over Kids Doing Zanjeer In Manchester

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The sign of akhiruzaman mothers are stopping their children from doing that which is Good rather than that which is Bad.

How come it is obligatory on kids to obey their mother when she says not to do zanjeer zani does this apply if she says TO DO it as in a mother tells her son to do zanjeer zani doesnt he then HAVE to do it?

I think most people here will say NO suprisingly it will be OKAY to DISOBEY her then but you cant disobey her and then do it when she says no.

I pray my sons grow up to be Real Azadar of Mola Hussain AS.

Because they and every thing i have is their Blessing.

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(salam)

My mum waas telling me today that there was a court case in Manchester over a couple of teenagers doing zanjeer on Ashura. I don't know the ins and outs of it just rumours. The facts in the papers are pretty threadbare:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7207789.stm

http://www.theasiannews.co.uk/news/s/10340...h_child_cruelty

The rumour I heard (and it is just a rumour), is that the father allowed his son to do zanjeer but his estranged wife was not happy about it and went to the police. Apparently she went on DM Digital as well bad mouthing Shia's.

Wasalaam

Hur

(salam)

As far as I was aware all the Hussaini mosques were forbidden from letting people under the age of 18 participate in zanjeer zani. I know for sure about cheetham hill mosque because the note was read out on Ashura.

w'salaam

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I did Zanjeer Zani many times without my mom's permission. I am not even 18. But my mom realizes that it is all for the love of the Ahlul-Bayt.

The love of The Ahlul-Bayt should be higher than everything including ur mom.

You Should listen to ur mom alway but if she tells u something which decreases the love of The Ahlul-Bayt then u should disobey.

My Opinion only!!!

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We enjoined man to show kindness to his parents, for with much pain his mother bears him and he is not weaned before he is two years of age. We said: ‘Give thanks to Me and to your parents. To Me shall all things return. But if they press you to serve besides Me that of which you have no knowledge, do not obey them. Remain kind to them in this world, and turn to Me with all devotion. To Me you shall all return, and I will declare to you everything you have done’.
(31:14-15)

(salam) brother,

disobedience to parents according to the above verse is only allowed in the case when they tell you to serve something other than Allah (swt)

alot of importance is given to obeying parents in islam, and since zanjeer does not take u away from your belief in Allah - or make you a polythiest, if ure mother asks you not to do it, you ought to obey her.

Ma'assalaam

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latest news

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7568953.stm

Boys 'flogged' during Shia ritual

The ceremony took place at a community centre in south Manchester

A man whipped himself until he bled during a Shia Muslim religious ceremony, before allegedly forcing two boys to do the same, a court has heard.

Syed Mustafa Zaidi, 44, is accused of encouraging the boys, aged 13 and 15, to beat themselves at a community centre in Manchester on 19 January.

Manchester Crown Court was played a film showing Mr Zaidi beating himself with a whip made of knives and chains.

Mr Zaidi, of Station Road, Eccles, denies two counts of child cruelty.

It is the first case of its kind ever to be prosecuted in the UK. This was not only against their own will but in any event is not allowed by law

Andrew Nuttall, prosecuting

The 20-minute video shown to the court showed the Shia Muslim Ashura ceremony in Levenshulme, with Mr Zaidi bare-chested among a crowd of about 150 men, chanting and singing.

He then used the whip - called a zanjeer zani - on himself.

Participants at the men-only event take it in turns, in small groups, to flog themselves, while the crowd around them chant the name of Husayn, a central figure in the Shia faith whose death they are commemorating.

The film played to the court also showed the 13-year-old boy, who Zaidi is accused of forcing, flogging himself with the zanjeer zani.

'Considerable force'

Prosecutors said the 15-year-old boy, who is not seen in the film but was allegedly forced to take part in the ceremony, suffered multiple lacerations to his back and shoulders, including a wound measuring up to a centimetre long.

Andrew Nuttall, prosecutor, said Mr Zaidi also harmed himself in the film.

"This devout man used considerable force upon himself, clearly causing injuries, and causing others present to fear for his safety to such an extent that they started to intervene and calm him down," he said.

Mr Nuttall said Mr Zaidi then went on to encourage the 15-year-old boy to flog himself and gave him "no choice" about participating in the ceremony.

He said Mr Zaidi took the arm of the 13-year-old boy, took off his T-shirt so he was bare-chested and put the zanjeer zani in his hand and told him to flog himself.

'Not for children'

The court heard how Mr Zaidi had attended a meeting at the community centre two days before the ceremony, where it was made plain that children under the age of 16 should not participate.

Mr Zaidi denies forcing the boys to participate and claims they had requested to take part.

Mr Nuttall said: "The prosecution say the defendant ignored the advice given to him that this practice was not allowed for children under 16 years of age."

He said Zaidi forced the boys to participate in a ceremony "clearly designed to cause self harm".

Mr Nuttall added: "This was not only against their own will but in any event is not allowed by law."

The case continues.

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i think reporting her husband to the cops was really irrational and not necessary in this case. And i must say she is lucky she doesnt have a husband who is a crack head like me. Otherwise,.... somebody gona get a hurt real bad :P

lol Russell Peters hows ur daddy ?

Edited by Akbar007

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Latest News:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7584446.stm

"Man convicted over Shia flogging"

A devout Shia Muslim has been convicted of child cruelty after forcing two boys to beat themselves during a religious ceremony, in an unprecedented case.

The jury at Manchester Crown Court found 44-year-old Syed Mustafa Zaidi guilty of two counts of child cruelty.

The boys, aged 13 and 15, were forced to beat themselves with a zanjeer whip, with five curved blades.

Zaidi, of Station Road, Eccles, Salford, also flogged himself during the ceremony in January.

The court heard the boys admit that they had wanted to beat themselves, but not under duress, and not with the curved blade whip.

"This is a part of our religion"

Syed Mustafa Zaidi

The teenagers said that they had flogged themselves with a smaller whip from the age of six in Pakistan.

The Ashura ceremony takes place during Muharram, the first month of the Islamic calendar and commemorates the death of Husayn, a central figure in the Shia faith.

Zaidi admitted he had asked the boys if they wanted to beat themselves and allowed them to use the bladed whip.

He denied his actions were wrong, saying: "This is a part of our religion."

The 14-year-old boy, who was 13 at the time, said Zaidi told them both: "Start doing it, start doing it."

The child told the court: "We said 'we don't want to do it'."

He said he saw Zaidi flogging himself before washing blood from the whip and handing it to the 15-year-old boy.

'Emotional time'

He said Zaidi was "pulling him and pushing him", telling him to "keep doing it" and telling people "this is a sad moment and look he's not doing it".

The boy said Zaidi continued to pressure the older teenager to whip himself.

He said the 15-year-old boy "swung it once or twice and said 'I don't want to do it anymore'."

Zaidi told the court: "It was an emotional time and the children were happy, they asked for it. No one forced anyone.

"If I'd known this would be the result of breaking the law I would never have done it."

This is a very unusual case and the first of its kind to be prosecuted by the CPS in England and Wales

Carol Jackson, CPS

The boys both received multiple lacerations to their backs, mainly superficial, with several deeper cuts.

Supt Nadeem Butt, of Greater Manchester Police, said: "This man not only abused the vulnerability of these children but also went against the wishes of his own community, as well as knowingly breaking the law.

"The sensitivities this case raises - both legal and cultural - are significant."

Carol Jackson, of the Greater Manchester Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), said the prosecution "was not an attack upon the practices or ceremonies of Shia Muslims".

"Indeed, the prosecution relied as part of its evidence upon the president of the local Shia community centre," Ms Jackson said.

"We are satisfied that, given the age of the children involved, the coercion employed by Syed Mustafa Zaidi, who did not accept that he was wrong, and the possibility of such an incident occurring again, the decision to prosecute by the Crown Prosecution Service was the correct one.

"This is a very unusual case and the first of its kind to be prosecuted by the CPS in England and Wales."

Zaidi will be sentenced on 24 September.

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^^ there are a number of problems with this court case, the first being that mustafa bhai now has a criminal record for child cruelty/ abuse. he will never be able to find another job, or travel freely again. lanat on the person who did this to him.

who is the president/ member of al raza committee that testified in court AGAINST him? the stupid fool. why did he do that? isnt making your children starve from sunrise to sunset ALSO "cruelty"? what next? punishment for rozay?

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A devout Shia Muslim has been given a suspended prison sentence for forcing two boys to beat themselves during a religious ceremony.

A jury at Manchester Crown Court found Syed Mustafa Zaidi, 44, guilty of two counts of child cruelty last month.

The boys, aged 13 and 15, were forced to beat themselves with a zanjeer whip, with five curved blades.

Zaidi, of Station Road, Eccles, was given a 26-week sentence, suspended for 12 months.

A second order which will also last for 12 months means that if Zaidi is found to have allowed or encouraged anyone under the age of 16 to beat themselves he could be returned to court for sentencing.

Judge Robert Atherton, at Manchester Crown Court, said: "I reject the suggestion that they were forced to participate, although I consider it likely that the fervour of events is also likely to have affected their wish to participate."

The boys both received multiple lacerations to their backs, mainly superficial, with several deeper cuts caused by the bladed whip.

They admitted they wanted to beat themselves, but not under duress and not using Zaidi's zanjeer.

Zaidi also flogged himself during the Ashura ceremony, which commemorates the death of Husayn - a central figure in the Shia faith - in January this year.

He admitted he allowed the boys to use the bladed whip, but denied his actions were wrong, saying: "This is a part of our religion."

Wrongful act

Judge Atherton said that the jury's verdict was "not a comment" on the Ashura ceremony.

"No-one should misinterpret it as being such," he said.

"You must realise that the law recognises that children and young persons may wish to take part in some activities which it considers they should not.

"It is sometimes expressed as protecting themselves from themselves.

"Your wrongful act was providing the means by which they were able to participate."

He said Zaidi ignored a decision by mosque elders that under-16s could not participate in the ceremony.

Supt Paul Savill, of Greater Manchester Police, said: "This man not only abused the vulnerability of these children but also went against the wishes of his own community, as well as knowingly breaking the law.

"The sensitivities this case raised are significant and we have been working closely with community leaders throughout."

A code of conduct for adults about involving children in the self-flagellation ritual has been drawn up since Zaidi was convicted, Supt Savill said.

Local Muslim leader Safdar Zia said the ceremony could not be eliminated.

"We can and will work to a code of practice so that the children don't get hurt, the law isn't broken, and the people who do want to take part don't get prosecuted," he said.

"But we are not above the law and we never will be and working with the authorities is the best chance we've got to prevent any harm being brought against any children."

The case was unprecedented - the first of its kind to be prosecuted by the Crown Prosecution Service in England and Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7634275.stm

Edited by Thurston

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A code of conduct for adults about involving children in the self-flagellation ritual has been drawn up since Zaidi was convicted, Supt Savill said.

Local Muslim leader Safdar Zia said the ceremony could not be eliminated.

"We can and will work to a code of practice so that the children don't get hurt, the law isn't broken, and the people who do want to take part don't get prosecuted," he said.

"But we are not above the law and we never will be and working with the authorities is the best chance we've got to prevent any harm being brought against any children."

The case was unprecedented - the first of its kind to be prosecuted by the Crown Prosecution Service in England and Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7634275.stm

LOL @ malik safdar, 404 gettin in the news! woo! basically, 404's stance is a polite way of saying"stay the hell out of our business", it took courage for the committee/ trustees to stand up to this, and draw up a BS "code of conduct" which is nothing more than a written set of rules that everyone does anyway. mind you the number of maulas azadars in 404, if they tried any funny business banning it etc they would have been ripped limb from limb.

cheetham hill, as usual, acted like a bunch of fags and folded. those guys are a bunch of chocolate teapots i swear to god.

al raza is al raza :)

the code of conducts are on all the noticeboards in manchester, basically if ur under 16 you have to use child sized (and i think unsharpened) zanjeers, supervised by adults and you cant be forced by anyone. so thank god alhamdulillah its not as bad as it COULD have been, and he has avoided jail which would have been a MF tragedy if he went down, so thank god for that too.

next, were gonna send a lynch mob round to that fatass sunni cows house lol

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