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If A Girl Has Lost Her Virginity Before Marriage

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and how should she go on telling him about her past? u think she should tell him?

or not tell him at all? or tell him when they r married? or tell him now?

tnx

salams

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(salam) In order for a marriage to be valid between a man and a woman they both need to fully disclose any information that would result the other individual to have a change of heart.

Therefore, a woman is required to disclose whether or not she is a virgen to her husband prior to marriage as a man should disclose to the woman, but most importantly because a man will be aware of the woman's lack of virginity the first night and can cause possible problems. It is best to enter marriage with full knowledge and an open heart with no secrets.

As for how should she tell him, I don't know such a subject is hard for me to express my opinions on...since I have no experience on the matter.

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and how should she go on telling him about her past? u think she should tell him?

or not tell him at all? or tell him when they r married? or tell him now?

tnx

salams

Well, i think she shld not tell him anythng,i am sure that was her past n this person is her present n future.

Why simply ruin the present n the future for the past .....which will never come back :)

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ws

Forever - where are your rulings that she HAS to disclose in order for a marriage to be valid.

To sunlight - I posted before in this thread then deleted it - because I feel the girl needs to talk to a knowledgeable sister about this - one who is well versed in the fiqh - as I am not I cannot offer you what the correct islamic advise is. All I really want to say is a) bear in mind he could spread it and tell the dad/other relatives, ruin the girls reputation and the girl could be in a situation where no1 will offer for her because of this. Also realise a lot of men ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING of their future wives having had sex with another man - even the ones who are nice and kind on the outside, so the chances of a person accepting it and going ahead with a marriage are not very good or that if the girl was in a marriage, staying married. Also he could bring this up and throw it in the girls face or use this information as a blackmailing tool to rule the girl and act as he wants to act ie be a serial muta - er. I am being very cynical but just wanted to point these things out in advance.

Edited by Peace

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ws

Forever - where are your rulings that she HAS to disclose in order for a marriage to be valid.

To sunlight - I posted before in this thread then deleted it - because I feel the girl needs to talk to a knowledgeable sister about this - one who is well versed in the fiqh - as I am not I cannot offer you what the correct islamic advise is. All I really want to say is a) bear in mind he could spread it and tell the dad/other relatives, ruin the girls reputation and the girl could be in a situation where no1 will offer for her because of this. Also realise a lot of men ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING of their future wives having had sex with another man - even the ones who are nice and kind on the outside, so the chances of a person accepting it and going ahead with a marriage are not very good or that if the girl was in a marriage, staying married. Also he could bring this up and throw it in the girls face or use this information as a blackmailing tool to rule the girl and act as he wants to act ie be a serial muta - er. I am being very cynical but just wanted to point these things out in advance.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=53069

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Well, personally I would be furious if I had to find something out about my wife instead of herself telling it to me...there should'nt be ANYTHING held between a husband and wife.

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Well, personally I would be furious if I had to find something out about my wife instead of herself telling it to me...there should'nt be ANYTHING held between a husband and wife.

I think all should be disclosed - both from the husband and from the wife. Anything can be worked out if there is honesty and good intention.

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yes yes privacy is good and all that, but isnt the all-important point which seems to be missed

the fact that on your wedding night

he's gonna find out anyway!

wouldnt it be better to explain yourself earlier than be faced with a divorce one day after? girl I dont know how you think you could get away with not telling him about this one, unless he's about 90 or mentally retarded...

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In order for a marriage to be valid between a man and a woman they both need to fully disclose any information that would result the other individual to have a change of heart.

Please don't make things up.

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bliss - People dont always get caught tho! I dont get how they dont :blink:

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yes yes privacy is good and all that, but isnt the all-important point which seems to be missed

the fact that on your wedding night

he's gonna find out anyway!

wouldnt it be better to explain yourself earlier than be faced with a divorce one day after? girl I dont know how you think you could get away with not telling him about this one, unless he's about 90 or mentally retarded...

you know how many women go for the "cover-it-up-surgery". its so common especially in arab countries. not a rarity!

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ws

Forever - where are your rulings that she HAS to disclose in order for a marriage to be valid.

(salam)

Gladly point to why she has to:

Conditions for the Marriage Contract to be Binding

If these conditions are met, neither party has the right to anull the marriage.

1. If the marriage of an underage or insane person is done by other than the father or the grandfather, then the father or grandfather has the right to annul it.

2. That the husband is socially compatible and qualified for the woman.

3. That the dowry is at least equivalent to those similar to her.

4. That there is no defect in either spouse. Included in this category would be the case where the woman was said to be a virgin but is then discovered to be otherwise or where either spouse is not physically capable of marital relations.

There are other things that can make a marriage voidable (which means the non-lying spouse make invalidate the marriage): such as lying about your age and so on and so forth...

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the most important thing is the heart. not the action. someone can perform a terrible sin but repent and renew his or her heart. so, even if a girl is not a virgin but covers it up, and repented, she should not tell her husband she committed the sin. n. the only business the husband has is to see how she behaves at the moment. see if she is sincere and nice.

but lets say the husband asks her if she is a virgin...i don't think she should "lie". if he doesn't ask, then she should not tell him.

Edited by eThErEaL

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the most important thing is the heart. not the action. someone can perform a terrible sin but repent and renew his or her heart. so, even if a girl is not a virgin but covers it up, and repented, she should not tell her husband she committed the sin. n. the only business the husband has is to see how she behaves at the moment. see if she is sincere and nice.

but lets say the husband asks her if she is a virgin...i don't think she should "lie". if he doesn't ask, then she should not tell him.

I disagree wtih you on this...If she truly is repentent and she is regretful for what she has done and she has selected for herself a good strong muslim man then he should be able to forgive her as well and be willing to marry her irregardless of the fact that she is not a virgin.

She shouldn't live her life thinking that some day he'll find out and have that fear hanging over her. It is best to approach it with honesty.

Plus I really don't think the man she wants to marry if he is incapable of forgiving her is someone whom she'll want in life anyways...we all do wrong and some point or another and as long as we repent others should forgive us as well.

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Gladly point to why she has to:

QUOTE Conditions for the Marriage Contract to be Binding

If these conditions are met, neither party has the right to anull the marriage.

1. If the marriage of an underage or insane person is done by other than the father or the grandfather, then the father or grandfather has the right to annul it.

2. That the husband is socially compatible and qualified for the woman.

3. That the dowry is at least equivalent to those similar to her.

4. That there is no defect in either spouse. Included in this category would be the case where the woman was said to be a virgin but is then discovered to be otherwise or where either spouse is not physically capable of marital relations.

There are other things that can make a marriage voidable (which means the non-lying spouse make invalidate the marriage): such as lying about your age and so on and so forth...

Please don't misguide people by pasting non-Shi'i rulings without explicitly stating it, and also give your sources when you copy paste.

Above is taken from a Sunni (Hanafi) site, http://www.java-man.com/Pages/Marriage/Marriage05.html.

Furthermore, it has nothing to do with what you claimed, which was:

In order for a marriage to be valid between a man and a woman they both need to fully disclose any information that would result the other individual to have a change of heart.

What the above says - which I don't know if it's valid according to Shi'i jurisprudence - is that if you lie about your defects (virginity is defined as such), then the man has the option of taking out a divorce.

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if someone finds out that she told a lie then he should divorce her at that spot without any questions and answers.

because Quran says that only momin woman is for momin man and momin man is for a momin woman

and if she comitted a sin ( gunah e kabira ) and she cheated you as well then she should be punished , i mean she should be (at least divorced )

Edited by Karachi

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she might have lied..in d first place to save the marriage benifitting both of them..personaly i dnt fink its right that he should divorce her without asking any ques....she might have repented...n thats wats needed

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I'm not sure of the Islamic rulings, so I won't pass out my own fatwas.

Logically though, if a guy thinks his future wife is a virgin and there is nothing to make him think that she isn't like maybe shes divorced etc, yeah he will be shocked if he finds out on the wedding night. It'd be best to be honest and open with each other. Though, many Muslim men are narrowminded, so make sure he won't flip out, then dump her and go tell everyone that she isn't a virgin. Her name would be wrecked. If you think he'll flip out, DON'T bother telling him. It depends on the guy, and how much he'll hold a person's past against them etc.

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Please don't misguide people by pasting non-Shi'i rulings without explicitly stating it, and also give your sources when you copy paste.

Above is taken from a Sunni (Hanafi) site, http://www.java-man.com/Pages/Marriage/Marriage05.html.

Furthermore, it has nothing to do with what you claimed, which was:

In order for a marriage to be valid between a man and a woman they both need to fully disclose any information that would result the other individual to have a change of heart.

What the above says - which I don't know if it's valid according to Shi'i jurisprudence - is that if you lie about your defects (virginity is defined as such), then the man has the option of taking out a divorce.

actually the above was taken from muslimconvert.com and the original posting I did is based off of a law in Iran, which I've been studying for a while now. For example, if a husband lies about his age it is grounds for a women to get divorced, if a man lies about his education it is grounds for a women to get divorced, if a man lies about his income it is grounds for a women to divorce, and vice versa (although a man doesn't need grounds for a divorce). Something as important as purity in islam when the Qu'ran specifically talks about it

The Qur'an, chapter 24 (An-Noor), verse 3: “ The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers."
The Qur'an, chapter 5 (Al-Ma'ida), verse 5: “ ... (Lawful to you in marriage) the chaste from among the believing women and the chaste from among those who have been given the Book before you (are lawful for you); when you have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret..."
The Qur'an, chapter 60 (Al-Mumtahina), verse 10: “ O you who believe! when believing women come to you flying, then examine them; Allah knows best their faith; then if you find them to be believing women, do not send them back to the unbelievers, neither are these (women) lawful for them, nor are those (men) lawful for them, and give them what they have spent; and no blame attaches to you in marrying them when you give them their dowries; and hold not to the ties of marriage of unbelieving women, and ask for what you have spent, and kt them ask for what they have spent. That is Allah's judgment; He judges between you, and Allah is Knowing, Wise."

The Islamic law is VERY clear on this aspect. Purity and Chastity is the most important in Islam, a muslim man who is a fornicator may not marry a virgin muslim women as a fornicatress may not marry a virgin muslim man.

Therefore, if she is not a virgin and marries this man who is virgin and pure not only is she going against Islamic law but she is taking away his rights to follow the Qu'ran. Now if he is aware of the fact that she is not a virgin but repentent then that is different, becasue he is choosing to marry her even with her indiscretion and as such for her repentence she can be compared to the women that are being spoken of in 60:10. Although 60:10 is in reference to women who convert to Islam whose families have not converted.

This is an Islamic doctrine which is present in both Shia and Sunni doctrines not because it comes from a school of thought but because it comes directly from the Qu'ran and PLEASE don't tell me that the Qu'ran they read and we read are two different ones...

I'll aslo provide you with a personal example...my mother often jokes with my father that if he makes her mad she'll divorce him because he said he was 13 years older than her when in fact he is 15 years older than her. I'm not spouting off things of without a basis.

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here is the ruling of ayatullah seestani:

2453. * If the husband makes it a condition before Nikah, that the woman should be a virgin, and it transpires after Nikah that she is not virgin, he can repudiate the marriage. However, he can deduct and take the difference between the Mahr usually paid for a virgin woman and the one who is not a virgin.

so it does not invalidate the marriage, it just gives him the opportunity to leave it. however, a man can also divorce his wife any time he wants to anyway, so it is not like this is giving him some unusual privilege.

The Islamic law is VERY clear on this aspect. Purity and Chastity is the most important in Islam, a muslim man who is a fornicator may not marry a virgin muslim women as a fornicatress may not marry a virgin muslim man.

Therefore, if she is not a virgin and marries this man who is virgin and pure not only is she going against Islamic law but she is taking away his rights to follow the Qu'ran.

fornication is not the only thing that could have happened to the lady. what about rape, molestation, or, the site's favorite topic, mutah? :!!!: she may even have been married before and just not mentioned it especially if there is a stigma attached.

plus, some people commit a sin once or twice and then repent. that does not make them a serial fornicator who just does what they want and doesn't care about the boundaries of Allah. Allah in the holy quran speaks about those who do not commit sins except by accident.

of course, for a woman, the consequences of this sort of accident are much more severe because of the way people think in society.

anyway i think it is healthiest in a relationship to be honest. however, it seems to me that a lot of men are very uncomfortable with the idea of a lady having been with someone else. if he is going to make her life hell over it after marriage or be jealous or suspicious for the rest of their lives or hold it over her head, then if she could conceal it, i would understand why she would want to do that. or if she feared being divorced because of it or being unable to marry, then i could understand why she would want to conceal it too.

Edited by BintAlHoda

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plus, some people commit a sin once or twice and then repent. that does not make them a serial fornicator who just does what they want and doesn't care about the boundaries of Allah. Allah in the holy quran speaks about those who do not commit sins except by accident.

Plus, aren't sins supposed to be between you and God? Not that this is an excuse for dishonesty in a relationship, but it's kind of hard to walk the line between confessing your sins to a human and telling what needs to be told.

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Plus, aren't sins supposed to be between you and God? Not that this is an excuse for dishonesty in a relationship, but it's kind of hard to walk the line between confessing your sins to a human and telling what needs to be told.

For a healthy marriage it would be needed. I think it would cause problems later especially if he (or she) found out through someone else. I think it is really best to be totally honest about everything. Then you can be totally relaxed around him or her, not needing to hide anything.

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just my opinion, but i believe a marriage thats foundation is based upon a lie is doomed to fall/fail. Keeping an important fact like this a secret is the same as lying. The truth will eventually come to light and then you have destroyed one of the most crucial elements of a marriage......trust. I would never intentionally keep any secrets from my prospective husband.

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and how should she go on telling him about her past? u think she should tell him?

or not tell him at all? or tell him when they r married? or tell him now?

tnx

salams

As things are today, if it's a man from a "traditional family" who seems to share some of those same ways of thinkng, probably not. He doesn't need to know. In this case ignorance probably is bliss.

...there should'nt be ANYTHING held between a husband and wife.

I'm guessing you've never been married.

Some element of privacy remains in a healthy marriage. Everyone keeps a few secrets.

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yes yes privacy is good and all that, but isnt the all-important point which seems to be missed

the fact that on your wedding night

he's gonna find out anyway!

Why would he? Unless he has been a bad boy himself, tilling some other woman's soil before the marriage, he really shouldn't have any experience by which to judge. And if he does, then he's not really in any position to pass judgement, then, is he? Absence of a hymen is not a reliable test of non-virginity, and if the woman does regular PC muscle exercises in the months leading to the marriage, he really shouldn't be any the wiser.

Really. Ignorance is bliss in this case. Let the mistakes of the past sleep quietly. Everyone is happier that way. If the community was different, my advice would be different, but there's a huge virgin obsession in the Muslim community, and there are massive double standards for women as opposed to men when it comes to the acceptableness of pre-marital trysts. It's better for a woman to be silent in this context if she's moved on from past mistakes. Call it "sexual taqiyyah," if you will.

Edited by kadhim

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^True. What difference does it make if she is virgin? Is she worthless? If she has forgotten about the previous guy then whats the problem?

Nowadays people prefer women on whom 1000s of men have done Zina of the eyes, which is HARAM, rather than a woman who is pure and chaste and Hijabi BUt has slept with one more man but that too HALAL.

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As things are today, if it's a man from a "traditional family" who seems to share some of those same ways of thinkng, probably not. He doesn't need to know. In this case ignorance probably is bliss.

I'm guessing you've never been married.

Some element of privacy remains in a healthy marriage. Everyone keeps a few secrets.

Some of elements of privacy?

Your going to be for the most part, gonna be spending the rest of your life with this girl.

If she keeps a secret like this, then divorce her faster than she can blink.

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actually the above was taken from muslimconvert.com and the original posting I did is based off of a law in Iran, which I've been studying for a while now. For example, if a husband lies about his age it is grounds for a women to get divorced, if a man lies about his education it is grounds for a women to get divorced, if a man lies about his income it is grounds for a women to divorce, and vice versa (although a man doesn't need grounds for a divorce). Something as important as purity in islam when the Qu'ran specifically talks about it

Lying about something is completely different than what you claimed, which is that the marriage is invalidated if they don't disclose all information that "may lead to a change of heart" (undefined). And as already posted by Sr. BintAlHoda it does not invalidate the marriage, but gives the man the right to divorce (though he already has it).

The Islamic law is VERY clear on this aspect. Purity and Chastity is the most important in Islam, a muslim man who is a fornicator may not marry a virgin muslim women as a fornicatress may not marry a virgin muslim man.

Therefore, if she is not a virgin and marries this man who is virgin and pure not only is she going against Islamic law but she is taking away his rights to follow the Qu'ran.

Now if he is aware of the fact that she is not a virgin but repentent then that is different, becasue he is choosing to marry her even with her indiscretion and as such for her repentence she can be compared to the women that are being spoken of in 60:10. Although 60:10 is in reference to women who convert to Islam whose families have not converted.

First of all, stop interpreting the Quran according to your own opinion.

Imam al-Sadiq (as) said: "He who judges by his opinion over

two (religious issues) has indeed become disbeliever, and he

who interprets any verse of Quran by his opinion has indeed

become disbeliever."

- Tafsir al-Ayyashi, v1, p18, Hadith #6

- Wasa'il al-Shia, v27, p60, Hadith #33195

- Bihar al-Anwar, v89/72, p111, Hadith #15

Imam al-Baqir (as) and Imam

al-Sadiq (as) said:

"Nothing is farther than the reasons of men from the

interpretation of Quran. Certainly, the beginning of a verse

can be about something, its middle is about another thing, and

its end is (yet) about another thing."

- Tafsir al-Ayyashi, v1, pp 11,12,17 (four traditions)

- Wasa'il al-Shia, v27, p192, Hadith #33572; pp 203-204, Hadith

#33600, #33604, #33605

- Bihar al-Anwar, v89, p91, Hadith #37; p94, Hadith #45; p95,

Hadith #48; p110, Hadith #10; p111, Hadith #14

Imam Ali (as) said:

"... Certainly in Quran some verses are partly in one chapter

and the rest of them are in another chapter, and there are

some verses half of which are abrogated and the other half

remained in their states. Some verses have different wordings

but have common meanings, and some have common wordings but

have different meanings, ... The appearance of some verses are

in disagreement with their internal/hidden meanings and their

surface meanings are acted upon in the case of Taqiyya...

There are some verses that apparently address a group while

they are meant for another group, and there are verses that

address the Prophet (PBUH&HF) while they are meant for his

nation..."

- Tafsir al-Nu'mani, p6

- Bihar al-Anwar, v90, p4

Qasim Ibn Sulaiman narrated:

Imam al-Sadiq (as) said: "No one has related a part of Quran

to another part (by his opinion), except that he has become

disbeliever."

- al-Kafi, v2, p632, Hadith # 17; p633, Hadith #25

- Tafsir al-Ayyashi, v1, p18, Hadith #2

- Ma'ani al-Akhbar, p190, Hadith #1

- Bihar al-Anwar, v89, p39, Hadith #1

Abi Mu'ammar al-Sa'dani narrated:

Imam Ali (as) said: "Avoid interpreting Quran by your opinion

and you should obtain deep understanding of it from al-Ulamaa

(i.e., only the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt (as)). Verily there exists

many revealed verses that have similarity to the saying of

human, but since they are the saying of Allah, their

interpretation (Ta'wil) do not have any similarity to the

saying of human. Nothing in His creation is like Him, and

likewise His action has no resemblance with any actions of

human, and also His saying has no similarity with the saying

of human... Thus do not liken the saying of Allah to the

saying of human or else you will perish and will go astray...

there are many verses in Quran that its interpretation is

different from its revealed appearance and is not similar to

the saying of human."

- Kitab al-Tawhid, p254, Hadith #5

- Bihar al-Anwar, v90/93, p127, Hadith #2

Abu Salt (ra) narrated:

Imam al-Ridha (as) said to Ibn Jahm: "Fear Allah and do not

interpret the Book of Allah by your opinion, because Allah

said: 'and no one knows its interpretation except Allah and

those who are firmly rooted in knowledge (3:7)'"

- Uyun Akhbar al-Ridha, v1, p191, Hadith #1

- al-Amali, al-Saduq, p90, Hadith #3

- Wasa'il al-Shia, v27, p187, Hadith #33562

- Bihar al-Anwar, v11, p72, Hadith #1

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said:

"Allah has cursed those who dispute in the religion of Allah

by the tongue of seventy Prophets. He who disputes in the

(meaning of the) verses of Allah has become disbeliever as

Allah sates: 'None would dispute in the Signs/Verses of Allah

but the disbelievers (40:4)' He who interprets Quran by his

opinion has indeed lied upon Allah. He who gives Fatwa to

people without knowledge the angels of the Heavens and the

Earth curse him. Every innovation is misguidance and every

misguidance leads to the Fire."

- Kamal al-Din, p256, Hadith #1

- Wasa'il al-Shia, v27, p190, Hadith #33568

- Bihar al-Anwar, v36, p227, Hadith #3

Secondly, what on earth does the issue of fornication have to do with what we are discussing? You have also - incorrectly - linked the issue of virginity with fornication. A non-virgin is not impure/unchase if (s)he has contracted legal and valid marriages, which is the assumption in our discussion since the OP did not mention fornication.

This is an Islamic doctrine which is present in both Shia and Sunni doctrines not because it comes from a school of thought but because it comes directly from the Qu'ran and PLEASE don't tell me that the Qu'ran they read and we read are two different ones...

It's not physically different but the interpretation can differ greatly.

I'll aslo provide you with a personal example...my mother often jokes with my father that if he makes her mad she'll divorce him because he said he was 13 years older than her when in fact he is 15 years older than her. I'm not spouting off things of without a basis.

I don't get the point you're trying to make with this anecdote.

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