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Abu Bakr In The Cave?


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#1 seyyed_hamed

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 04:20 PM

Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim

Salam

[Pickthal 9:40] If ye help him not, still Allah helped him when those who disbelieve drove him forth, the second of two; when they two were in the cave, when he said unto his comrade: Grieve not. Lo! Allah is with us. Then Allah caused His peace of reassurance to descend upon him and supported him with hosts ye cannot see, and made the word of those who disbelieved the nethermost, while Allah's Word it was that became the uppermost. Allah is Mighty, Wise.


we know that Prophet(saws) was in the cave, but WHO was the other? some say it was Abu Bakr, but according to what i have heard Shia's do not belief that it was Abu Bakr.

the hadith that some use as evidence (Abu Bakr in the Cave) are narrated by Ayesha, Adbal ibn omer, Abu huraira, Anas ibn malik. all rejected by shia's.

the are no hadith where Abu Bakr said I WAS IN THE CAVE WITH THE PROPHET(saws)
and there are no hadith where Prophet(saws) said ABU BAKR WAS WITH ME IN THE CAVE.

i have also heard that sunni scholars like Al Dhabi reject Abu Bakr in the cave.

but when you read the commentary of Ali Pooya chapter 9 verse 40

inside the cave, the companion of the Holy Prophet, Abu Bakr, was frightened and had started crying in anguish when he heard the voices of the enemy

it clearly says Abu Bakr was in the cave...

so i am lost now.

What is the SHIA VIEW of the verse 9:40? and what is the SUNNI view and how many hadith do they have about 9:40, can you post them?

thanks.

Wasalam

#2 syed_shia

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 06:26 PM

(salam)

where did u hear it wasnt abu bakr in the cave? that other is abu bakr, but it doesnt mean anything great, read the whole story and youll know.
inshallah

W.salaam

#3 Qa'im

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 06:45 PM

(salam)

I thought it was common knowledge that Abu Bakr was with Muhammed (pbuh) in the cave.

#4 wazz

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 12:07 AM

bro The second person was Abu Bakr agreed by Shia....but what does it matter whether he was in the cave, in the house, in the church, in soho, it carries absolutely no weight at all unless it was Abu Bakrs heroism and valour that accompanied the Prophet

The Quran tells us Abu Bakr was scared and and grieved and lost faith in God protecting Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad according to this ayah is reminding ABu Bakr that God is with us. Im sorry to say but its really funny for the sunnis to run a rep on this since it is the Prophet who seems to be protecting Abu Bakrs safety lol

On one hand you are 100% safe with the PROPHET since it is God who promised to Protect the messenger. ON the other hand our beloved Imam slept in the PROPHETS bed with the enemies right above his head and yet he slept like there was no tomorrow with no worry at all....THATS FAITH...thats a symbol of a true leader!

Edited by wazz, 30 October 2007 - 12:10 AM.


#5 Firoz Ali

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 01:07 AM

Was Abu Bakr Really The Companion Of The Hijrah?



dscussed here as well -detailed

http://www.shiachat....h...l=afza&st=0

#6 o0o0o

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 03:21 AM

Abu Bakr was nervous that they would be found and killed, as he didnt want the prophet to be harmed, the prophet told him to not be nervous as Allah was with them. Abu Bakr stayed awake while the prophet slept, watching the entrance of the cave. A scorpian tried to walk into the cave through a hole but Abu Bakr put his foot over the whole to protect the prophet pbuh and he got bitten by the scorpion. The prophet opened his eyes and saw Abu Bakr quinching from the pain, so the prophet held his foot and rubbed it, and it healed, and he put his head back in Abu Bakr lap.

Edited by o0o0o, 30 October 2007 - 03:22 AM.


#7 Firoz Ali

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 03:33 AM

again here...............

only claims no proofs..suprising indeed

#8 mo87_11014

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 03:50 AM

sallam
as far as i understand we (shias) beleive that it was a badouin called bakr and he didnt beleive in islam thats why Allah did not send tranquility and calmness to that person becuase he was not muslim however if sunnis claim this which they do that would mean abubakjr was not a momin since Allah sends his tranquility only on prophets and momins those whoio beleive and follow him in other words however as far as ive asked there is no proof for the existance of abubakr in the cave we have a hadith were the prophet meets a badouin on the way known as bakr and they hide in the cave for safety.
ws

#9 syedagha

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 03:57 AM

Ali remained asleep in the bed of the Prophet bu Bakr accompanied the Prophet on the journey to Medina the prophet new they were being followed and was guided to seek refuge in the cave. In the cave Abu Baqr showed hislack of faith and respect of the Prophet by being afraid, Allah would not let harm befall the Prophet or Abu Baqr and the prophet asked Abu Baqr why are you so afraid you are with me. Lets say it was because of the advancing years of Abu Baqr that he failed in this test.

#10 o0o0o

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 04:08 AM

We believe that Allah did send his peace down on Abu Bakr, "he said unto his comrade: Grieve not. Lo! Allah is with us. Then Allah caused His peace of reassurance to descend upon him and supported him with hosts ye cannot see"

Abu Bakr was nervous THEN Allah sent his reassurance to relax him.

I dont expect you's to have the same view as us! you are shiia! i am sunni! ofcourse we wont agree on every fact, no matter what we do! Thats the way it is, we gotta accept it!

#11 syedagha

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 04:11 AM

shia or sunni the facts are facts you have basically agreed with what has been said previously I dont think that shia sunni divide should cloud many of the Hadith that are agreed by both Fiqs

#12 Tears of Karbala

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 05:56 AM

abu bakr was with prophet muhammed p.b.u.h when he was migrating thats a fact........thats from the sunni point of view and shias but we shias believe that he was spying on the prophet p.b.u.h and obviously the prophet noticed so he told him to join him.....and then when they were in the cave abu bakr kept making silly noises and sounds just because he was scared and nervous which made it easy for the Quraysh to know where they were hiding but still from the will of Allah the spider spun a web outside the cave and the bird kept her nest there which showed they werent there or else that abu bakr would have made it totally easy for the Quraysh to get the prophet and to kill him.....

Edited by Tears of Karbala, 30 October 2007 - 05:56 AM.


#13 CatStevens

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 10:21 AM

abu bakr was with prophet muhammed p.b.u.h when he was migrating thats a fact........thats from the sunni point of view and shias but we shias believe that he was spying on the prophet p.b.u.h and obviously the prophet noticed so he told him to join him.....and then when they were in the cave abu bakr kept making silly noises and sounds just because he was scared and nervous which made it easy for the Quraysh to know where they were hiding but still from the will of Allah the spider spun a web outside the cave and the bird kept her nest there which showed they werent there or else that abu bakr would have made it totally easy for the Quraysh to get the prophet and to kill him.....

care to provide proof of that...the prophet alllowed a spy to lead prayers in his last illness? nice logic

#14 Aliya

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 11:42 AM

^ you mean, he lead prayers, until Prophet (pbuh) 'felt better' and had himself CARRIED to the mosque (his feet dragging the ground), and took over leadership of the prayers, though he wasn't well enough to even stand? This, by the way, from a hadith narrated by Aisha.

a note to ALL posters in this thread: PROOF NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT FOR CLAIMS MADE, NO MATTER WHICH SIDE YOU'RE ON. PROOF SHOULD BE BROUGHT FROM SUNNI SOURCES WHEN EITHER ADDRESSING SUNNIS OR SPEAKING OF SUNNI BELIEFS. PROOF SHOULD BE BROUGHT FROM SHIA (ITHNA ASHERI) SOURCES WHEN EITHER ADDRESSING SHIAS, OR SPEAKING OF SHIA BELIEFS. ALL OTHER POSTS WILL BE DELETED WITHOUT FURTHER WARNING, AS UNFOUNDED CLAIMS ONLY LEAD TO PROBLEMS AND FURTHER FITNA.

#15 seyyed_hamed

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 03:15 PM

i know the story of 9:40 that some sunni's use to higher the rank of Abu Bakr, because it refers as COMPANION.
but in the Quran 2 kaffirs where referred as companions of the prison, so no proof that Abu Bakr is praised..
but i dont want to discus this.


if you say its common knowledge that it was Abu Bakr in the Cave, and agreed by Shia's, can you show me any evidence? any hadith? sunni or shia?

1) in Quran 9:40 it DOESNT mention names...( Quran 9:40 "the second of two" )
2)

áÐÇ ÝÅä ÃÍÏÇð áã íßä ÚÇáãÇð ÈÎÑæÌ ÇáäÈí Ýí Êáß ÇááíáÉ Óæì Ãåá ÈíÊå ÇáãÞÑÈíä¡ Úáí æÝÇØãÉ ((Ú))¡ æÃã åÇäÆ ÈäÊ ÃÈí ØÇáÈ ((Ú)).
æãÕÇÏÑ Ãåá ÇáÓäÉ ãÊÝÞÉ Úáì Ãä ÃÈÇ ÈßÑ áã íßä ÚÇáãÇð ÈÎÑæÌ ÇáäÈí Ýí Êáß ÇááíáÉ¡ Èá ÝæÌÆ ÈãÓÃáÉ ÇáåÌÑÉ ÕÈÇÍÇð ÝØáÈ ãäå Ãä ÕÍÈå¡ ÝÞÈá ÇáäÈí (Õ). [ÊÝÓíÑ ÇáÞÑØÈí: Ì 3 Õ 21¡ ÊÇÑíÎ ÇáØÈÑí: Ì 2 Õ 102¡ ÇáÈÍÑ ÇáãÍíØ áÃÈí ÍíÇä: Ì 2 Õ 118

^^^^^^
This says no one knew about the travel of the Prophet on that night except his close family like Imam Ali and Fatima
And the sources such as TAFSIR AL QURDABY volume 3 page 21 and TARIKH al TABARI volume 2 page 102 and Ibn Hayan volume 2 page 118 that all say Abu Bukr did not about the travel of the PROPHET that night in AGREEMENT



Åä åÐå ÇáÓÑíÉ ÊÊäÇÞÖ ãÚ ÇáÑæÇíÉ ÇáãäÞæáÉ¡ æÇáÊí ÊÞæá ÈÃä ÇáäÈí ÞÏ ÎÑÌ ãä ÈíÊ ÃÈí ÈßÑ äåÇÑÇð æÃãÇã ãÑÃì
ãä ÇáãÓáãíä ßáåã! [ÊÇÑíÎ ÇáØÈÑí: Ì 2 Õ 100].

THIS is in contradiction to TARIKH AL TABARI volume 2 page 100 witch says the Prophet left Abu bukr house that night and WENT PAST ALL THE MUSLIMS

This is clearly out of CONTEXT how can the PROPHET who was running away from the KUFFAR of MECCA show himself to all MUSLIMS when this was clearly a SECRET TRIP for the safety of the Prophet

ALSO THE QUESTION COMES UP HOW CAN THE PROPHET GO TO ABU BUKR HOUSE WHEN THERE WHERE MUSRIKEEN IN IT?? Lik ABD AZAH his son(WHO was a KAFFIR) go back to TARIKH IBN ASAKAAR volume 13 page 280

NOW THE AHADITHS that say THE PROPHET WENT TO THE CAVE BY HIMSELF leaving HIS HOUSE ONLY

áÞÏ ÃÌãÚÊ ÇáÑæÇíÇÊ Úáì Ãä ÇáäÈí (Õ) ÞÏ ÊæÌå ãä ÈíÊå Åáì ÇáÛÇÑ æÍíÏÇð ÝÑíÏÇð¡ æåÐÇ ÃÕá æÌæåÑ ÇáÍÇÏËÉ.[ ãÓäÏ ÃÍãÏ: Ì 1 Õ 331¡ ÇáãÓÊÏÑß: Ì 3 Õ 133¡ ÝÊÍ ÇáÈÇÑí: Ì 7 Õ 8¡ Óää ÇáäÓÇÆí: Ì 5 Õ 113¡ ÔæÇåÏ ÇáÊäÒíá: Ì 1 Õ 135

And it says On agreement of the hadiths the prophet left his house going to the cave by himself and the sources are

Musnid ibn hanbel volume 1 page 331
Al mustadrik volume 3 page 133
Sunan AL naseai volume 5 page 113
Swaheed al Tanzeel volume 1 page 135




HADITHS STATE THAT IBN BUKR was with HIM NOT ABU BUKR

ÃÌãÚÊ ÇáÑæÇíÇÊ Úáì Ãä ÇáäÈí (Õ)ÎÑÌ æÍíÏÇð Åáì ÇáÛÇÑ¡ æåäÇß ÓÃá Çááå ÊÚÇáì Ãä íÈÚË Åáíå ãä íÏáå Úáì ÇáØÑíÞ¡ ÝßÇä Ãä ÇáÊÞì ÇáäÈí ÈÇáÏáíá ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÃÑíÞØ Èä ÈßÑ ÍíË ÊÐßÑ ÇáÑæÇíÇÊ Ãä ÇáäÈí ÞÇá áå: (íÇ ÅÈä ÃÑíÞØ.. ÃÃÊãäß Úáì Ïãí¿ ÝÞÇá ÅÈä ÈßÑ: ÅÐÇ æÇááå ÃÍÑÓß æÃÍÝÙß æáÇ ÃÏá Úáíß. ÝÃíä ÊÑíÏ íÇ ãÍãÏ¿ ÝÞÇá (Õ): íËÑÈ. ÞÇá ÅÈä ÈßÑ: áÃÓáßä Èß ãÓáßÇð áÇ íåÊÏí ÝíåÇ ÃÍÏ). [ÇáãÓÊÏÑß: Ì 3 Õ 133¡ ÝÊÍ ÇáÈÇÑí: Ì 7 Õ 8¡ Óää ÇáäÓÇÆí: Ì 5 Õ 113¡ ÔæÇåÏ ÇáÊäÒíá: Ì 1 Õ 135


Collection of the hadiths narrated that the Prophet went by himself to the cave and on the way he asked Allah(swt) for a person to company him on the way this is where he met IBN BUKR or his full name Abd Allah ibn ARYGED IBN BUKR as the hadiths say the Prophet saying O SON OF ARYGED would you guard my blood IBN BUKR REPLIED By Allah I will guard and keep you safe and tell no one you are here for where do you want to go O MOHAMMED the PROPHET REPLIED YATHRIB (Medina)

AL MUSTADRIK volume 3 page 133
FATIH AL BARI volume 7 page 8
SUNNAN AL NESAEI volume 5 page 113
SWAHEED AL TANZEEL volume 1 page 135


ÝãÇ ÏÇã åÐÇ åæ ÇáËÇÈÊ¡ Ãí Ãä ÇáäÈí ÎÑÌ ãÚ ÅÈä ÈßÑ - æáíÓ ÃÈÇ ÈßÑ - ãä ÇáÛÇÑ ãÊæÌåÇð Åáì íËÑÈ (ÇáãÏíäÉ ÇáãäæÑÉ)¡ æãÇÏÇãÊ ÌãíÚ ÇáÑæÇíÇÊ ÊÐßÑ Ãä Ãåá ÇáãÏíäÉ æßÐáß ÇáÐíä íÓßäæä ãÇ Èíä ÇáãÏíäÉ æãßÉ¡ áã íÔÇåÏæÇ Óæì ÔÎÕíä ÇËäíä ÝÞØ [ÇáØÈÞÇÊ ÇáßÈÑì áÇÈä ÓÚÏ: Ì 1 Õ 230 ¡ÓíÑÉ ÅÈä åÇÔã: Ì 2 Õ 100¡ Úíæä ÇáÃËÑ: Ì 1 Õ 248

ÝãÇ ÏÇã åÐÇ åæ ÇáËÇÈÊ¡ Ãí Ãä ÇáäÈí ÎÑÌ ãÚ ÅÈä ÈßÑ - æáíÓ ÃÈÇ ÈßÑ - ãä ÇáÛÇÑ ãÊæÌåÇð Åáì íËÑÈ (ÇáãÏíäÉ ÇáãäæÑÉ)¡ æãÇÏÇãÊ ÌãíÚ ÇáÑæÇíÇÊ ÊÐßÑ Ãä Ãåá ÇáãÏíäÉ æßÐáß ÇáÐíä íÓßäæä ãÇ Èíä ÇáãÏíäÉ æãßÉ¡ áã íÔÇåÏæÇ Óæì ÔÎÕíä ÇËäíä ÝÞØ [ÇáØÈÞÇÊ ÇáßÈÑì áÇÈä ÓÚÏ: Ì 1 Õ 230 ¡ÓíÑÉ ÅÈä åÇÔã: Ì 2 Õ 100¡ Úíæä ÇáÃËÑ: Ì 1 Õ 248

æáÞÏ ÇÒÏÇÏÊ ÇáØÚæä Ýí ÑæÇÉ ÇáÍÏíË ÇáãßÐæÈ Ýí ÍÖæÑ ÃÈí ÈßÑ Ýí ÇáÛÇÑ. [ØÇáÚ ÊÇÑíÎ ÈÛÏÇÏ: Ì 8 Õ 302¡ ÊåÐíÈ ÇáßãÇá ááãÒí: Ì 1 Õ 314¡ ÊåÐíÈ ÇáÊåÐíÈ áÇÈä ÍÌÑ: Ì 1 Õ 27¡ ÊÇÑíÎ ÏãÔÞ: Ì 5 Õ 235¡ ÓíÑ ÃÚáÇã ÇáäÈáÇÁ: Ì 12 Õ 232¡ ãíÒÇä ÇáÇÚÊÏÇá ááÐåÈí: Ì 1 Õ 73 æÛíÑåÇ]

ÇáÙÇåÑ Ãä ÇáãÇßÑíä ÞÏ ÞÇãæÇ ÈÊÕÍíÝ æÊÒæíÑ ßÈíÑíä¡ áíæÇÝÞ ÇÓã (ÃÈí ÈßÑ) ÇÓã (ÅÈä ÈßÑ). ÝÞÏ ÛíÑæÇ ÇÓã ÃÈí ÈßÑ ÇáÍÞíÞí (ÚÊíÞ) æÌÚáæå (ÚÈÏ Çááå) áíæÇÝÞ ÇÓã (ÚÈÏ Çááå) Èä ÃÑíÞØ Èä ÈßÑ. [ãÎÊÕÑ ÊÇÑíÎ ÏãÔÞ áÇÈä ÚÓÇßÑ: Ì 13 Õ 35].

#16 Wa-Islamah

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 08:38 PM

bro The second person was Abu Bakr agreed by Shia....but what does it matter whether he was in the cave, in the house, in the church, in soho, it carries absolutely no weight at all unless it was Abu Bakrs heroism and valour that accompanied the Prophet

The Quran tells us Abu Bakr was scared and and grieved and lost faith in God protecting Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad according to this ayah is reminding ABu Bakr that God is with us. Im sorry to say but its really funny for the sunnis to run a rep on this since it is the Prophet who seems to be protecting Abu Bakrs safety lol

On one hand you are 100% safe with the PROPHET since it is God who promised to Protect the messenger. ON the other hand our beloved Imam slept in the PROPHETS bed with the enemies right above his head and yet he slept like there was no tomorrow with no worry at all....THATS FAITH...thats a symbol of a true leader!




One main thing Abo Baker RA was mentioned in the quran as the companion of the prophet PBUH, prophet chooses abo baker and no body else. Dose this mean anything at all to the shia, dose not it at least give a hint that abo baker ra was indeed a true beliver. after admitting this you still has the guts to all what you say about him. you think prophet will choose a none believer to accompany him during hijra, i don't think so only a true and real believer will be blessed enough to accompany the prophet and that was abo baker.

secondly, no sunni at all will say that Ali ra was not brave or say assiciate him with any bad actions. we love and respect Ali RA more than any shia but at the end he is only a human and we never give any human more than the human status and elveate them to be something else.


salaam

#17 Abdaal

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 08:42 PM

Can the 12rs should me one of the 12 imams hadith on this verse or one the 12 imams tasfeers ?

#18 Wa-Islamah

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 08:48 PM

^ you mean, he lead prayers, until Prophet (pbuh) 'felt better' and had himself CARRIED to the mosque (his feet dragging the ground), and took over leadership of the prayers, though he wasn't well enough to even stand? This, by the way, from a hadith narrated by Aisha.

a note to ALL posters in this thread: PROOF NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT FOR CLAIMS MADE, NO MATTER WHICH SIDE YOU'RE ON. PROOF SHOULD BE BROUGHT FROM SUNNI SOURCES WHEN EITHER ADDRESSING SUNNIS OR SPEAKING OF SUNNI BELIEFS. PROOF SHOULD BE BROUGHT FROM SHIA (ITHNA ASHERI) SOURCES WHEN EITHER ADDRESSING SHIAS, OR SPEAKING OF SHIA BELIEFS. ALL OTHER POSTS WILL BE DELETED WITHOUT FURTHER WARNING, AS UNFOUNDED CLAIMS ONLY LEAD TO PROBLEMS AND FURTHER FITNA.



so can you bring the hadeeth narrated by Aisha RA in regards to the prophet PBUH taking over the leadership of the prayers. i know there is a hadeeth but i need to read the one that you are talking about in this post.

#19 Aliya

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 10:55 AM

rather than take this thread off topic, here are a few threads in which this is discussed

http://www.shiachat....topic=234927302
http://www.shiachat....p;#entry1091087
http://www.shiachat....showtopic=70363

and the hadith states

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 681:
Narrated 'Aisha:

When Allah's Apostle became seriously ill, Bilal came to him for the prayer. He said, "Tell Abu Bakr to lead the people in the prayer." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Abu Bakr is a soft-hearted man and if he stands in your place, he would not be able to make the people hear him. Will you order 'Umar (to lead the prayer)?" The Prophet said, "Tell Abu Bakr to lead the people in the prayer." Then I said to Hafsa, "Tell him, Abu i Bakr is a soft-hearted man and if he stands in his place, he would not be able to make the people hear him. Would you order 'Umar to lead the prayer?' " Hafsa did so. The Prophet said, "Verily you are the companions of Joseph. Tell Abu Bakr to lead the people in the prayer." So Abu- Bakr stood for the prayer. In the meantime Allah's Apostle felt better and came out with the help of two persons and both of his legs were dragging on the ground till he entered the mosque. When Abu Bakr heard him coming, he tried to retreat but Allah's Apostle beckoned him to carry on. The Prophet sat on his left side. Abu Bakr was praying while standing and Allah's Apostle was leading the prayer while sitting. Abu Bakr was following the Prophet and the people were following Abu Bakr (in the prayer).

last time I checked prayer only had ONE leader, so if Abu Bakr was being led in prayer by Prophet (pbuh) the CONGREGATION was ALSO being lead in prayer by the Prophet (pbuh), NOT BY ABU BAKR, in spite of what Aisha claims. Besides, all similar hadith are narrated from Aisha (either directly, or from people who heard it from her), who is notorious for promotion of herself, her father, and her tribe in her narrations of hadith.

Edited by Aliya, 31 October 2007 - 11:01 AM.


#20 Kaniz-e-Fatima Shiapower

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 10:59 AM

rather than take this thread off topic, here are a few threads in which this is discussed

http://www.shiachat....topic=234927302
http://www.shiachat....p;#entry1091087
http://www.shiachat....showtopic=70363

and the hadith states

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 681:

last time I checked prayer only had ONE leader, so if Abu Bakr was being led in prayer by Prophet (pbuh) the CONGREGATION was ALSO being lead in prayer by the Prophet (pbuh), NOT BY ABU BAKR, in spite of what Aisha claims. Besides, all are narrated from Aisha, who is notorious for promotion of herself, her father, and her tribe in her narrations of hadith.


Yeah its interesting how she is seen promoting everybody but her husband

#21 Aliya

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 11:03 AM

not just occasionally, but more often than not. She even degrades Bibi Khadija (as) out of jealousy, and it gets excused by HER (Aisha's) supporters :dry: whereas she was reprimanded by Prophet (pbuh) for the same behaviour which her supporters accept

#22 wazz

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 01:06 PM

One main thing Abo Baker RA was mentioned in the quran as the companion of the prophet PBUH, prophet chooses abo baker and no body else. Dose this mean anything at all to the shia, dose not it at least give a hint that abo baker ra was indeed a true beliver. after admitting this you still has the guts to all what you say about him. you think prophet will choose a none believer to accompany him during hijra, i don't think so only a true and real believer will be blessed enough to accompany the prophet and that was abo baker.

secondly, no sunni at all will say that Ali ra was not brave or say assiciate him with any bad actions. we love and respect Ali RA more than any shia but at the end he is only a human and we never give any human more than the human status and elveate them to be something else.

salaam


ELLO

rightiooooo where do i begin with this fairy tale...

First of all Does God praise this second man in the Quran? Absolutely not! What is being told is he got scared! Traditions in Hadith state that not was he only scared he threatened the Prophets (P) safety with the commotion he developed. Some might ask was Abu Bakr intending for the Prophet to get Caught or did he lose faith in God when the Messenger of God told him we would be safe with Gods protection. These are very important questions one must ask! God eventually had to intervene with His divine intervention in order to store peace in Abu Bakrs heart in order he no longer wore the coat of commotion and exposure.

Abu Bakr may have been a companion but being a companion is that sufficient to pass u through the gates of heaven. We look at the individuals record of deeds and actions not his companionship to determine who that person really was. His true colours were exposed as soon as the Prophet departed from the World. Simple As!

Now tell me something about what u said of Loving Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã greater then any shia....How on earth did u measure LOVE?? Did u run a survey? Dont u think it a little childish like to make such a statement. Not only that, a sunnis definition of Love towards a Leader or vicegerent is respect and consideration of a historical matter. Shias definition of Love of an Imam, is respect, and submitting oneself to The Gods appointee with sincerity and faith in honouring their successorship in matters of spirituality, law, faith, governing affair, etc etc. The sense of appreciation is far greater!!! So dont say things u know little of!

#23 Wa-Islamah

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 01:27 AM

not just occasionally, but more often than not. She even degrades Bibi Khadija (as) out of jealousy, and it gets excused by HER (Aisha's) supporters :dry: whereas she was reprimanded by Prophet (pbuh) for the same behaviour which her supporters accept




what proof do you have for this claim. please don't accuse the mother of Muamneen unless you have authentic proof or withdraw your accusation

#24 Wa-Islamah

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 01:31 AM

ELLO

rightiooooo where do i begin with this fairy tale...

First of all Does God praise this second man in the Quran? Absolutely not! What is being told is he got scared! Traditions in Hadith state that not was he only scared he threatened the Prophets (P) safety with the commotion he developed. Some might ask was Abu Bakr intending for the Prophet to get Caught or did he lose faith in God when the Messenger of God told him we would be safe with Gods protection. These are very important questions one must ask! God eventually had to intervene with His divine intervention in order to store peace in Abu Bakrs heart in order he no longer wore the coat of commotion and exposure.

Abu Bakr may have been a companion but being a companion is that sufficient to pass u through the gates of heaven. We look at the individuals record of deeds and actions not his companionship to determine who that person really was. His true colours were exposed as soon as the Prophet departed from the World. Simple As!

Now tell me something about what u said of Loving Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã greater then any shia....How on earth did u measure LOVE?? Did u run a survey? Dont u think it a little childish like to make such a statement. Not only that, a sunnis definition of Love towards a Leader or vicegerent is respect and consideration of a historical matter. Shias definition of Love of an Imam, is respect, and submitting oneself to The Gods appointee with sincerity and faith in honouring their successorship in matters of spirituality, law, faith, governing affair, etc etc. The sense of appreciation is far greater!!! So dont say things u know little of!



how I love Ali RA more than shia, simple try to act like him and be the best, simply but keeping away from accusing any muslim. simply by respecting the wifes of the prophets and simply by giving Ali RA his status and that is a human.

#25 seekers14

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 02:57 AM

how I love Ali RA more than shia, simple try to act like him and be the best, simply but keeping away from accusing any muslim. simply by respecting the wifes of the prophets and simply by giving Ali RA his status and that is a human.


Dear Brother! Do you aware about status Of MAULA ALI (as) ????
There are so many hadiat about status.
i would like to quote some here

"MAN KUNTO MAULA (pbuh) FA HAZA ALI (as) UN MAULA (as) "

"ALI (as) IS WITH HAQ AND HAQ IS WITH ALI (as) "

Do you feel to respect everyone, even they are with HAQ or against HAQ.

When Srrah"Addyat" had recieved from Allah in the Respect of MAULA ALI (as) . SARKAR (pbuh) said,if have not fear about scattering belief(Gumrrah) of Nation(ummat),i would tell the status of MAULA ALI (as) that can make the people to collect the Soil of feet of MAULA ALI (as) for Khakey Shifa.

So SARKAR (pbuh) had mentioned some status of MAULA ALI (as) and some keep secret as per HIKMAT-E-ILLAHI.

But sorry to say that ummat did,nt accept even the mentioned by SARKAR (pbuh)



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