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Shia Marrying In Malaysia


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#1 sharm

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 02:59 PM

I'm a Malaysian married to a shia and I have converted to Islam(shia). But the marriage took place outside Malaysia. Now I'm planning to settle down in Malaysia with my husband but I heard that Shia is not accepted in Malaysia. How do i get my marriage registered according to Malaysian law? Will malaysian government accept the conversion of religion made outside of malaysia especially to Shia? Anyone here knows how things work or anyone with similar problem? I need help!! Thank you.

#2 Haji 2003

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 04:05 PM

These are my opinions only. I have been to Malaysia several times, and know enough of the place to know that these people are rabidly Wahhabi and have little sense of 'human rights' etc.

If you want an easy life give them as much of an impression as possible that you and your spouse are Sunni.

I heard that Shia is not accepted in Malaysia.


That is very true. Best keep your religion to yourself if you want to avoid trouble.

How do i get my marriage registered according to Malaysian law?


I would have thought that the civil/religious marriage documentation that you have for your marriage should be enough. If this gives away your Shia affiliation, could you get another one made?

Will malaysian government accept the conversion of religion made outside of malaysia especially to Shia?


I really do not think that you want to be going around Malaysia telling people that you have converted from Sunni to Shia.

And AFAIK in Shia belief it's ok to keep your beliefs concealed in case of harm.

May Allah protect you.

#3 Member1

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 06:33 PM

ITS A LIBERAL COUNTRY THO....they let bhuddists and hindus practice freely.... idiots


ya they hate shias....shia'ism banned...

Edited by Queen_Shah_UK, 10 October 2007 - 06:34 PM.


#4 Nocturne

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 07:26 PM

Hmm, did not know this! I searched around, been through a few points of their constitution. I could not find any thing against "shias" in the said. The word Muslim is referred, does not mention sects. or any thing. Can someone please tell in more detail?

May Allah help you sister.

#5 Gypsy

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 01:08 AM

(salam)
Shias are generally not welcome in Malaysia by the authorities. As for marriage, there are certain rules need to be followed prior to the wedding. Not sure if you are aware of them. Probably it's too late now. Registering the out of the country wedding is tricky. Seek help from the nearest embassy. They should be able to help you with it.

#6 faisal

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 03:10 AM

(salam)
email me at zaynabalkubra_82@yahoo.co.id
i am shia moslem still leaving in malaysia. i can give you practical advice, sis zareen has left malaysia for a while. others seem 'bias'.
wassalam

#7 cakehot

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 04:27 AM

(salam)
email me at zaynabalkubra_82@yahoo.co.id
i am shia moslem still leaving in malaysia. i can give you practical advice, sis zareen has left malaysia for a while. others seem 'bias'.
wassalam

(salam) all,
I am a Malaysian Shia.
Its true what Haji2003 said about
the resistance to shia in Malaysia.

But for the sake of sharm, here's
what i have to suggest.

A marriage made outside the country
shall have to be re-registrerd with
the religious authorities.
There is a fine involved but this can
be ironed out if you state valid reasons
for marrying outside the country.
The fine is only to discourage those
marrying outside in a ploy to overcome
the strict polygamy laws.

But the fine is a small price to pay.

The real survival strategy is
like Haji2003 said, feigned Sunni.

I am married to a sunni lady, she accepts
my belief and I teaches her the merits
of shia.

One day I hope she will embrace it to her benefit.

pm to e-mail me

#8 cakehot

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 04:36 AM

Hmm, did not know this! I searched around, been through a few points of their constitution. I could not find any thing against "shias" in the said. The word Muslim is referred, does not mention sects. or any thing. Can someone please tell in more detail?

May Allah help you sister.

(salam) all
Its one of those unwritten laws of the country
The religious authority has full jurisdiction
over the matter of sectarial choice. Again,
shia is banned here in Malaysia although
through the sucess of Ahmadinijad,
certain religious leaders is agreeing to
Iran's tough, no nonsense approach to
Islamic way of life as shown by the
Iranian leadership.

#9 sharm

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 06:16 AM

Thank you dear sisters and brothers.

So it looks like the best thing to do is to pretend that me and my husband are shia.

Brother Haji i agree with you that I shouldn't be going around telling everyone that i've converted to shia but the problem is i was not a muslim before i left the country. I only embraced Islam overseas before i married my husband. So how do i tell the government that i have already converted to Islam? Will i have to go through the procedure of being a muslim according to JAKIM or IKIM? I have a certificate saying that i have converted to shia islam though.

#10 Haji 2003

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 07:38 AM

Thank you dear sisters and brothers.

So it looks like the best thing to do is to pretend that me and my husband are shia.

Brother Haji i agree with you that I shouldn't be going around telling everyone that i've converted to shia but the problem is i was not a muslim before i left the country. I only embraced Islam overseas before i married my husband. So how do i tell the government that i have already converted to Islam? Will i have to go through the procedure of being a muslim according to JAKIM or IKIM? I have a certificate saying that i have converted to shia islam though.


Please bear in mind that my suggestions were based on commonsense and knowing a little bit about the country. All of my contacts and stays in Malaysia have been with Chinese (non-Muslim) Malays.

Those bros/sis living there will have more practical advice.

I would also recommend seeing the following link:
http://www.alloexpat...ips-t19219.html

This is a website for British (non-Muslim) workers in Malaysia, known as ex-pats. Some of these people talk about converting to Islam, for convenience, in order to marry a Malay, but have no intention of giving up drinking etc. So what you would be doing is similar, and if they can do it, why can't you.

As I said before if your conversion certificate says you have converted to Shia Islam, you will need to get new certificates made. I honestly think that any paperwork you bring back to Malaysia that says you are a Shia could cause a lot of problems, if not now, but perhaps in the future.

There is a page on Wikipedia dealing with religion in Malaysia and there is a letter there (probably true) from a University telling an applicant that he cannot have a job because he is a Shia - and that is because of government regulations.

I have commemorated Muharram in Singapore with Malays from Malaysia who have come to Singapore because of the trouble that they can get into in their own country.

Finally, one last word of advice. Anyone communicating with each other about this via email should keep their identities as secret as possible, because you never know who may be trying to entrap whom.


Though maybe the Mods may know some of the established posters and may be willing to vouch for them.

#11 Gypsy

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 12:58 AM

(salam)
:!!!: We'll ...I have to admit. I was clueless about the whole procedure when I got married - years ago. Despite being in Malaysia for sometimes, I did not know or understand the rules. I never really made any serious attempt to figure mainly because 1) I never thought it will ever be applicable 2)Maybe the rules wont be too complicated 3) Pretending to be ignorant of the law may work in my favor. :squeez: Boy I was wrong. It seems that the government can really micro-manage a marriage. :wacko:

The one big question you need to ask yourself, where will both of you live/stay? If you guys are planning to live in Malaysia, then it makes sense to go the extra mile.

Oh, and stop telling everyone that you are Shias. This is not the time or the place. See 1) Most people wont even understand what Shiasme is. 2) If someone do recognize, it's usually in the the wrong sense of the word. :wacko:

Since you are a new muslim, always pretend you are ignorant of Shias-Sunnis. Just say you believe in the Unity, sisterhood of the faith..and the rest of the feel good stuff. Show them that you are willing to go the extra step to make it work.

Edited by Zareen, 13 October 2007 - 01:11 AM.


#12 cakehot

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 10:54 PM

Since you are a new muslim, always pretend you are ignorant of Shias-Sunnis. Just say you believe in the Unity, sisterhood of the faith..and the rest of the feel good stuff. Show them that you are willing to go the extra step to make it work.


(salam) bro hajj and sis zareen,
Agree with your suggestions.
Mine was on the assumption that
when sharm left Malaysia
she was already a sunni muslim.

And bro Hajj, I take your advice
seriously too about entrapment.
So all, do not pm or e-mail me.
Everything should be laid out
in the open in the threads for
everyone to vouch for its authenticity.

sis zareen,
your comments about micro-manage a marriage
is to a certain extent true.
But marriage is not the only thing
that is micro-managed here.

Marriage has repercussions to inheritance
at the time of death. The JAKIM stand
on polygamy is to install a complication-free
transmission of the estate to the rightfull hiers.
For there have been frequent cases where
children from different mothers claiming
full inheritance and succesfully leaving out
children or even wives from
the faraid process.

And as you know, mahr if remaining unpaid
becomes a creditor balance in the estate
of the deceased.

Marriage can have a direct effect on
ascertaining nasab or the biological lineage
of the children that you bear in Malaysia.
The JAKIM people would have to go the
extra-mile in order to register your children,
if there is any suggestion that they are
obtained out-of-wedlock.

In Malaysia, problems arising out of
claims from different communities to
guardianship of children below 18 has
in certain cases, become issues that
can jeapordise the country's political stability.
And claims to the dead can bring similar
destabilising effect.

In short, JAKIM could not cope with the
extra permutations Shia Muslims will bring,
not now, not even in the near future.
As I said earlier, there is a tendency to be
friendly with another Shia Nation in Iran, but
the political stability of the sunni muslim
need to be reinforced first before acceptance
by the general population and subsequently
the ruling goverment will grow to accept Shia.

These are only wisfull thoughts and hopes.

Edited by cakehot, 30 October 2007 - 10:56 PM.


#13 Rusyd

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:35 AM

Malaysia will never accept Shia Islam teachings for several reasons that is obvious. Malaysian will never accept that Ali was Prophet and Aishah's place is hell and so does other companions of the Last Prophet. The Shia teachings also said that their Imam cannot commit error which means that what ever decision they make is right even though it is wrong even though it is against the Al-Quran. My brothers and sisters Malaysia is a peaceful country without civil war etc. unlike other Islamic countries. If there is going to be a Wahabbi, Shia, Suffism etc will grow tensions and many people here don't want this to happen here. Its very clear that Shia Islam have deviated from Islam since it was created in the era of the first 4 great caliphate. Shia Islam existed after the Prophet Muhammad's death. Please learn your religion from YOUR MESSENGER. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Surely may God protect us from such harm that will divide the Muslims.

#14 mehdi soldier

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 01:37 PM

Malaysia will never accept Shia Islam teachings for several reasons that is obvious. Malaysian will never accept that Ali was Prophet and Aishah's place is hell and so does other companions of the Last Prophet. The Shia teachings also said that their Imam cannot commit error which means that what ever decision they make is right even though it is wrong even though it is against the Al-Quran. My brothers and sisters Malaysia is a peaceful country without civil war etc. unlike other Islamic countries. If there is going to be a Wahabbi, Shia, Suffism etc will grow tensions and many people here don't want this to happen here. Its very clear that Shia Islam have deviated from Islam since it was created in the era of the first 4 great caliphate. Shia Islam existed after the Prophet Muhammad's death. Please learn your religion from YOUR MESSENGER. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Surely may God protect us from such harm that will divide the Muslims.


you are obviously a victim of WAHHABI lies and propaganda that Shia believe this and that.

i will just tell you that we do not believe that Imam Ali (as) is a prophet and we believe that Muhammad (sa) is the last messenger and prophet of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

i will leave it at that because you also sound like a blind zealot.i hope others will help you out.or you can seek help from the shia-sunni dialogue section and other shia websites like al-islam.org and answering-ansar.org

#15 Gypsy

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:37 AM

Rusyd,
You seem to buy into Malaysian Government propaganda.


Stop being a sheep.

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#16 Abu Hadi

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 08:22 AM

Malaysia will never accept Shia Islam teachings for several reasons that is obvious. Malaysian will never accept that Ali was Prophet and Aishah's place is hell and so does other companions of the Last Prophet. The Shia teachings also said that their Imam cannot commit error which means that what ever decision they make is right even though it is wrong even though it is against the Al-Quran. My brothers and sisters Malaysia is a peaceful country without civil war etc. unlike other Islamic countries. If there is going to be a Wahabbi, Shia, Suffism etc will grow tensions and many people here don't want this to happen here. Its very clear that Shia Islam have deviated from Islam since it was created in the era of the first 4 great caliphate. Shia Islam existed after the Prophet Muhammad's death. Please learn your religion from YOUR MESSENGER. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Surely may God protect us from such harm that will divide the Muslims.


You are obviously misinformed about Shia beliefs.

1) We do not believe that Ali(a.s) was a Prophet. The last Prophet was Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h). I have been in the Shia community for more that 20 years and have met hundreds or thousands of Shia. I have never heard one of them say that Imam Ali(a.s) was a Prophet (Nabi). This concept exists only in the mind of Wahabi hate mongers.

2) Only Allah(s.w.a) knows who is going to hell, except in cases where He(s.w.a) has explicitly told us in the Holy Quran that someone is going to hell (such as the cases of Abu Lahab and Firoun(may the curse of Allah be on them both)). The only difference between us Sunni and Shia concerning Aisha is that we don't actively conceal some of her very ugly actions which split apart the Ummah and caused untold amounts of Fitna for more than 1000 years, i.e. her support of Talha and Zubair and other hypocrites against the Wali Al Amr, Amir Al Mumineen Ali(a.s) after giving this position to him was agreed upon by the vast majority of muslims. She accused Imam Ali(a.s) of having a hand in the murder of Uthman with no evidence and made a war against him with no justification(The Battle of Jamal). This caused untold consequences for the Ummah which we are still suffering from today. She will be questioned about this by Allah(s.w.a) and it is very presumptuous of our Sunni brothers to say that Allah(s.w.a) will forgive her for this great crime against the Ummah strait away because she is 'um al mumineen'. The explicit meaning of the term 'um al mumineen' in practice is that noone could marry her after she had married Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h), because she was given the status of their mother for purposes of marriage and obviously it is haram to marry your mother. As to the other qualities our Sunni brother derive for her because of the title 'um al mumineen', this has to be proved thru her actions. As for her going to hell, Allah Alim but I definitely wouldn't want to be in her shoes on Youm Al Qiyamat with that crime around her neck before Allah(s.w.a).

Edited by Abu Hadi, 25 September 2011 - 08:33 AM.


#17 mahdi usman

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 10:52 AM

yes 12er shias believe that holy prophet (pbuh) was the last prophet ,but they do not believe that he was the last of infalliblities.all sunnis and zaydia shias believe that holy prophet was the last infallible personality.
if only Allah knows who is going to hell then what is the reason left to condemn anyone ,just left it to Allah.if u people say that bibi aishah was wrong and due to her thousands of muslims were killed,then question will arise that what justice hazrat ali(ra) did to the blood of that thousands of people.

#18 Abu Hadi

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 07:28 AM

..
if only Allah knows who is going to hell then what is the reason left to condemn anyone ,just left it to Allah.if u people say that bibi aishah was wrong and due to her thousands of muslims were killed,then question will arise that what justice hazrat ali(ra) did to the blood of that thousands of people.


Salams,

Based on your logic, then we also cannot condemn Mubarak for shooting innocent demonstrators and running them over. Alhamduillah, the noble brothers and sisters in Egypt didn't accept your 'logic', otherwise, Mubarak would still be in power doing what he did and would still do if he had the power. Based on your logic, we should not condemn Ghadafi for chaining prisoners in a room then burning them alive and killing their children and raping their women because Allah alim, he knows who is going to hell or not. Alhamduillah the noble brothers and sisters of Libya didn't accept your 'logic'.

Yes, it is true that Allah(s.w.a) knows the ultimate outcome of things, but that doesn't absolve us of our responsibility to do 'Amr bil Maroof wa Nahiya Al Munkhar' (command the good and forbid the evil) with our hands, our tongues, or at least in our heats which is the weakest type of this. If we see an act of injustice happen, whether in history or in the present day, it is up to us to, like they say in English, 'call a spade and spade'. Allah(s.w.a) doesn't not love the people who are crooked in their speech or actions. If someone commits an act of injustice or indecency, whether they are a companion or even a wife of the Holy Prophet(p.b.u.h), we should not just pass over it and excuse them because the Haqq is more valuable than any person, any person period.

It is a simple fact and undisputed by Historians that Aisha and her supporters organized the campaign against Imam Ali(a.s) and carried it out. Her supporters in this effort were , mostly , the children of Abd As Shams, who are refered to in the Holy Quran as the 'cursed tree'. So she supported the children of Abd As Shams against the one whom the Holy Prophet(p.b.u.h) chose as his successor and his wasi and the leader of all the muslims after him at Ghadeer Khum and at many other times and locations. This campaign was organized under a false pretense (that Imam Ali(a.s) had something to do with the murder of Uthman bin Awfan ). So they are the ones who began the fitna and the war and as a consequence, they are the ones who have blood on their hands, not Imam Ali(a.s). Imam Ali(a.s) was merely defending the ummah in order to preserve the lives and property of the muminin. He did not start the conflict, and even on the battlefield, he followed the practice of the Holy Prophet(p.b.u.h) and did not attack until the other side attacked his troops. There are many accounts of the Battle of Jamal written by both Shia and Sunni and I am surprised that you are so misinformed about these facts. It is very clear who started the conflict and who organized and encouraged the fitna. Just because most of our Sunni brothers ignore this part of history doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There is a simple fact here that many of our Sunni brothers and sisters are starting to realize. The myth of the nobility and piety of Aisha was fabricated by the Ummayed State because she was the only wife of the Prohet(p.b.u.h) who supported the Ummayad policies. So they 'talked her up' by fabricating ahadith and by ignoring clear historical facts regarding her. They had the power at that time to do this and they did it and, unfortunately, much of these fabrications still exist and are treated as fact when much of it is fiction but like I said many of our Sunni brothers are waking up and so this is changing, Alhamduillah.

Edited by Abu Hadi, 28 September 2011 - 07:41 AM.

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#19 ummi_raihanah

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 01:33 AM

Salam,

agree with bro hadi,

#20 Rusyd

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:44 PM

Salams,

Based on your logic, then we also cannot condemn Mubarak for shooting innocent demonstrators and running them over. Alhamduillah, the noble brothers and sisters in Egypt didn't accept your 'logic', otherwise, Mubarak would still be in power doing what he did and would still do if he had the power. Based on your logic, we should not condemn Ghadafi for chaining prisoners in a room then burning them alive and killing their children and raping their women because Allah alim, he knows who is going to hell or not. Alhamduillah the noble brothers and sisters of Libya didn't accept your 'logic'.

Yes, it is true that Allah(s.w.a) knows the ultimate outcome of things, but that doesn't absolve us of our responsibility to do 'Amr bil Maroof wa Nahiya Al Munkhar' (command the good and forbid the evil) with our hands, our tongues, or at least in our heats which is the weakest type of this. If we see an act of injustice happen, whether in history or in the present day, it is up to us to, like they say in English, 'call a spade and spade'. Allah(s.w.a) doesn't not love the people who are crooked in their speech or actions. If someone commits an act of injustice or indecency, whether they are a companion or even a wife of the Holy Prophet(p.b.u.h), we should not just pass over it and excuse them because the Haqq is more valuable than any person, any person period.

It is a simple fact and undisputed by Historians that Aisha and her supporters organized the campaign against Imam Ali(a.s) and carried it out. Her supporters in this effort were , mostly , the children of Abd As Shams, who are refered to in the Holy Quran as the 'cursed tree'. So she supported the children of Abd As Shams against the one whom the Holy Prophet(p.b.u.h) chose as his successor and his wasi and the leader of all the muslims after him at Ghadeer Khum and at many other times and locations. This campaign was organized under a false pretense (that Imam Ali(a.s) had something to do with the murder of Uthman bin Awfan ). So they are the ones who began the fitna and the war and as a consequence, they are the ones who have blood on their hands, not Imam Ali(a.s). Imam Ali(a.s) was merely defending the ummah in order to preserve the lives and property of the muminin. He did not start the conflict, and even on the battlefield, he followed the practice of the Holy Prophet(p.b.u.h) and did not attack until the other side attacked his troops. There are many accounts of the Battle of Jamal written by both Shia and Sunni and I am surprised that you are so misinformed about these facts. It is very clear who started the conflict and who organized and encouraged the fitna. Just because most of our Sunni brothers ignore this part of history doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There is a simple fact here that many of our Sunni brothers and sisters are starting to realize. The myth of the nobility and piety of Aisha was fabricated by the Ummayed State because she was the only wife of the Prohet(p.b.u.h) who supported the Ummayad policies. So they 'talked her up' by fabricating ahadith and by ignoring clear historical facts regarding her. They had the power at that time to do this and they did it and, unfortunately, much of these fabrications still exist and are treated as fact when much of it is fiction but like I said many of our Sunni brothers are waking up and so this is changing, Alhamduillah.







What you said is partly true and I partly agree, If I was alive at that time I will side with Ali (may god be please with him) there is non-more qualified to be the caliphate at that time other than him. It is partly true what you said about the conflict which Ali (may god be please with him) have to face. However that does not give us reasons to say any of the Companions (may god be please with them) of the Messenger (peace be upon him) hypocrites or curse them.

I've read the history in all sources Shia and Sunni views regarding Ali, Hussein and Hassan (may god be please with them). I can't hide the fact that I was very sad how Muslim act at that time towards Ali (may god be please with him) and I will not lie by saying Aisha (may god be please with her) was doing the right thing entirely. Because I do not know why to avenge Uthman's death is necessary to an extent to go against the Caliphate, Ali (may god be please with him) and disturb the Muslim society.

You see, this is politics like what you have said there. Now, in terms what have been sent to us The Quran and The Last Messenger of God (peace be upon him) teachings oppose the Shia's belief or maybe to you I'm wrong because I understand you have many sects. But I will not deny that there are some extremist who call themselves Muslim-Sunni or Adherents to the Sunnah (أهل السنة والجماعة). because automatically when you submit to God (Muslim) we follow the Prophet (peace be upon him) why must we emphasize that? Same goes to Shia's your mourning of the injustice that Ali have to face is too extreme until you put aside The Quran and The Last Messenger of God (peace be upon him) teachings and make heresy/Bid’ah (بدعة) and Shirk (شرك‎) and label any Muslims who follow the Orthodox Islamic and who go against some Shia teaching's that deviated from Islam as Sunnis.

Even the label itself ; Shia, Sunni, Sufi and etc. bring conflict among us Muslims even though the The Last Messenger of God (peace be upon him) have never introduce to us any of this but The Messenger (peace be upon him) did tell us we (Muslims) will be weak, not because of majority but because of our faith and another one which is ; there will be many of us (Muslims) only one is true and also ; follow the The Quran and His (peace be upon him) practice/sunnah (سنة). Base on that doesn't mean we should create one (Sunni) but their teachings are the closest to the true Islamic beliefs compare to Shia's.

What you have said is true my brother but it's all about politics as I reply your post I feel pathetic because I cannot hold my tears when I recall that history and how that have separated us. It reminded me also after Sadam's governance ended in Iraq Shias terrorize Sunnis by rape, killing etc. if you said Saddam did crime against Shias what difference you’re doing to your own brothers and sisters there? The injustice both Sunni's and Shia's facing in Bahrain and the violence in Syria, Egypt and Muslims who's suffering in Iran because they are not Shias. Some of us are abundance with wealth, gold plated cars and luxurious homes while Palestine is slowing decaying in our map. You reminded me all of this because I can see your hatred when you’re supporting Arab Spring you want justice but your way is wrong same like what your accusing Aisha (may God be please with her).

We are forgetting or rather ignoring what God has sent us. We choose to bend the Law to point fingers at each other. I wish the Prophet (peace be upon him) was here, and all the Companions (may God be please with them) was here.

I always put my place as a Muslim first before anything even more than my own race as Malay and my culture. I'm sorry if I offended any of you, maybe I was a bit harsh before but now I have to speak out what is right.

As-Salamu 'Alaykum (عليكم السلام)



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