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(salam)

The Supreme Islamic Shia Council under Imam Musa al Sadr ruled that the Alawiyi or Nusayri as their sometimes known are indeed from the Twelver Shia's. They are thus recoginsed as Shia Muslims.

Do not believe everything you read on the net. Would anyone here honestly believe that the SISC or a man such as Imam Musa al Sadr would make such a statement and associate themselves with such a people if indeed all these slanderous statements were true?

What would that be saying about the Supreme Islamic Shia Council?

Dear brother, Please gain some knowledge in the field that you intend to put allegations in.

And if you believe that one should not believe in anything on the net today, then why do you ask about SISC anyway ? Be firm in you belief and cocoon yourself to one corner in the room.

Surely ^ is not happening. Then why talk as if you have read every article on wikipedia and you've read every blog ever and read every website mentioning everything and anything about politics or religion and are an alim in every field history of mankind has come across!! Why ?

Oh wait, you did not mean to project that Idea ? Guess what. Your words scream the above opinion.

-Be a bit positive dear brother. Please. Imam as Sadiq [as] quotes from the Prophet [sawa], If a person tell you one bad point, try to show him 69 good sides of the situation.

And as far as Musa As Sadr is concerned, He had such such greatly positive perception, normal brains could not contemplate.. and about the alawi and shia union, I quote this from the very Wikipedia itself for your kindest and most delightful information.

In 1970, then-Air Force General Hafez al-Assad, an Alawite, took power and instigated a "Correctionist Movement" in the Ba'ath Party.[37] Robert D. Kaplan has compared his coming to power to "an untouchable becoming maharajah in India or a Jew becoming tsar in Russia—an unprecedented development shocking to the majority population which had monopolized power for so many centuries."[31]

In 1971 al-Assad became president of Syria, a function that the Constitution allows only a Sunni Muslim to hold. In 1973 a new constitution was published that omitted the old requirement that the religion of the state is Islam and replaced it with the statement that the religion of the republic's president is Islam. Protests erupted when the statement was altered,[38] and to satisfy this requirement in 1974, Musa Sadr, a leader of the Twelvers ofLebanon and founder of the Amal Movement who had earlier sought to unite Lebanese Alawis and Shias under the Supreme Islamic Shiite Councilwithout success,[39] issued a fatwa stating that Alawis were a community of Twelver Shia Muslims.[40][41] Under the authoritarian but secular Assad government, religious minorities were tolerated, political dissent was not.

After the death of Hafez al-Assad in 2000, his son Bashar al-Assad maintained the outlines of his father's governance.[citation needed] Although the Alawis comprise the entirety of the top military and intelligence offices, government employees from lower bureaucratic ranks are largely from the majority Sunni Muslim faith, who represent about 74% of Syria's population. Today the Alawis exist as a minority, but are the most politically powerful sect in Syria and the only one with direct government control.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawi

Think of Unity. And taking care of Not forgetting the Truth while doing it.

Wasalam

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Nusayris/Alawites are a very odd sect. But yes, they believe Ali is God. It is hard to learn much about them because they very secretive like the Druze. Most of the information about the sect comes from a book published by an Alawi who converted to Christianity. Here are some beliefs and practices of the Alawite:

  • Belief in a Trinity consisting of Ali (described as the 'Idea'), Muhammad (described as the 'Name'), and Salman (described as the 'Gate'. They believe Ali was God on earth and created both Muhammad and Salman. Alawis assert "There is no deity but Ali, no Veil but Muhammad, and no Bab but Salman." Alawis believe God appeared in 7 cycles of 3 parts.
  • 5 pillars in Islam are believed to represent something else. They do not perform the 5 prayers like other Muslims and instead they believe they represent Ali, Hassan, Hussain, Muhsin and Fatima (earlier I listed as Muhammad as one of them, but I was mistaken).
  • Alawite religion says women do not have souls. Because of this concept Bibi Fatima Zahra, is considered a man named Fatim. Fatim became a female to have Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain.
  • Ceremony similar to communion in which they believe the wine is Ali.
  • Alawis reject the concept of al Qiyamat and heaven and hell, instead they believe in reincarnation. Alawis believe that all people were stars in the realm of noor but fell from there due to waywardness. They believe they must be reincarnated 7 times before they are able to go back to the stars where Ali is the prince. A bad Alawi will be reborn as a better form than a good non-Alawi. The disbelievers are believed to be reincarnated as animals.
  • Alawis honor many Christian saints.
  • They celebrate the two Eids, Shi’a holidays/commemorations along with many Christian days like Christmas, New Year's, Palm Sunday, Pentecost, Easter, and Epiphany.
  • Their religion has Islamic, pagan, Gnostic, and Christian influences.
  • Young men have the opportunity to be trained and then properly initiated to know the secret of the Alawite religion.
  • Alawis believe their shaikhs have divine authority.
  • Taqiyyah
  • They don't attend mosques.
  • Alawis trace themselves back to Ibn Nusayr who studied under Imam al Askari.

(salam)

The Alevis are those who actually do believe in the divinity of Amir al Mu'minin (as), and that is not just an evil rumour, they admit to it themselves.

They reject the pillars and obligations of Islam, and have their own practises. They do not pray, nor fast, nor do their women wear 7ijab.

So according to the ruling of Islam, they are disbelievers.

Are you sure you don't mean Alawis/Nusayris/Arap alevis? People tend to mix them up a lot.

Edited by ohhcuppycakee

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Salam 3alaykum brother MohsinQ,

Firstly i am not sure of what your argument is. Are you disagreeing with me about the position of Muhammad & Ahl Muhammad (as) in the religion of Islam?

Also what words would you like me to be careful with?

Thirdly you my friend are misinformed if you believe that Bashar al-Assad is worshipped.

It upsets me that our own brother's from the school of Ahlul Bayt (as) slander us with comments doubting our Islam. We are followers of of the religion of Allah سبحانه وتعالى. The followers of Muhammad & Ahl Muhammad (as). We are from those who accept & hold true the Wilaya of Amir al-Mu'mineen Ali (as) & the Wilaya of the Ahlul Bayt (as). We are those who accept the Imamate of the Twelve sons of Fatima al-Zahra (as). We are those who await the return of our master al-Qaim al-Mahdi (AFS). We are from those who stand firm in the path of justice & fight agaist oppression!!

I have read many of the absurd & ridiculous accusations put forth against the Alawites. Let me begin by saying;

The Shia as a WHOLE have faced accusations of Ghulat from the Sunna throughout history. It is ABSURD to suggest that the Alawites are extreme in their beliefs. The Quran is clear in Sura 112 (al-Ikhlas): Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent."

Anybody who believes in a man as god or a god "incarnate" is a KAFIR. Allah (SWT) says in Sura 42 (al-Shura) Verse 11; There is nothing like Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.

Allah (SWT) also says in Sura 24 (Al-Noor) Verse 35; Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly [white] star lit from [the oil of] a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. Light upon light. Allah guides to His light whom He wills. And Allah presents examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things.

So we know from Quran that Allah (SWT) is UNLIKE any of his creations. That he is "the Light of the heavens and the earth." It is then ABSURD to believe in a man as God or for God to be incarnate for he then becomes defined & confined by matter, space & time. Allah (SWT) is FREE from definition & confinement for HE created space, time & matter.

Bashar al-Assad is fighting against EXTREMIST Salafist's in Syria. ALL of the followers of the Ahlul Bayt (as) are been persecuted by these animals inside Syri & abroad. Do you expect him to stand by & do nothing? The Shia of Lebanon, Iraq & Iran are supporting him, why if he is a kafir?

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This ignorance in this thread is astounding.  First of all, I am an Alawitë, not a Nusayri.  If you call us Nusayri then you guys are Mufidyi or Tusyi.  Do not apply human names to us.  It is highly offensive.  Secondly, Alawitë refers NOT to my religion, but to my culture.  As an Alawitë, I belong to the family of Alawitës, I celebrate the same cultural traditions, holidays, etc.  As for me personally, I am a secularist.  I do believe in religion, but it doesn't play a big part of my life.  I love the Imams and I love the ulema, but I don't pray as much as I should, nor do I fast all the time.  But that doesn't have anything to do with being an Alawitë.  There are 12er Alawitës (the majority), Christian Alawitë, Secular Alawitë (like me), etc.  Most Alawitës are going to be 12er Shi'ite Muslims.  They do not believe that Ali is god.  They do not believe in reincarnation.  They do not believe that everything is permissible (although some act like it lol).  They are just regular 12er that have an attachment to their own culture.

 

Since you guys are so hellbent on saying that Alawitë are kuffar, I will go ahead and say that any Pakistani cannot be a Muslim, they are absolute kuffar because Pakistanis believe that Jinnah is the same is Allah, they worship Hindu gods, etc.  If what I just said is considered racist, then stop saying things about my people.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

After reading this threat I think best is to let the alawies explain what their belief is and Bro SamTiger and Bashar have explained a lot. No need to consult wikipedia as that is maintained by Jews and Christians and always come up with mixed odds and relied on fabricated material. Like Shia are subjected to countless propaganda machines same goes for Alawies and to the horrors inside the Shia bros as well. Can't we just stand by the words of our Bro SamTiger as his words are enough to open the eyes. SIster Fatima post is based on a book written by a ex Alawite who converted to Christianity and most likely he is a likely to fabricate as his new faith has some compulsions. Bro Bashar has also explained a bit of his secular ideas and if we go around the muslim world many seculars amongst all the main stream sects can be found in abundance. He did mentioned Christian Alawies and its natural that anyone who has converted has not been separated from tribe like we find many hindus as well muslims in India write their tribe Mughals at the end of their names. According to Bro SamTiger their belief is what Itna Isharia belief is almost similar, and according to Bro Bashar main stream of Alawies comprises 12 ver Alwaies and few minorities like Christians and Secular also exist. So to conclude safely from their statements which I think everyone should respect as they are the only Alawies explaining their faith, they should be categorized as Muslims having a close belief towards Shia School of Thought. As far as Alevies are concerned, let some Alevi explain their belief and lets not believe in hearsay. Same goes for Nusahriya and lets not believe in hearsay. Thanks. JazakAllah for sharing your ideas on this threat.

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Dear people,

 

Recently I have became very interested in this mysterious and secretive people. I have read most western academic articles and books that I could find on the internet and such.

As a result I wish to present here a number of things I do not fully comprehend and that seem contradicting in their beliefs. This is one of the reasons I became a Shiachat member, as this site hosts a great number of people with knowledge about shia religion, including the 'ghulat' groups and because there are a number of Alawi's here too.

 

--

 

The Alawi religion seems to be based on a number of pre-Alawi scriptures attributed to famous 'ghali' such as Muffadal ibn Umar, Khattab, Sinan and such. On of the most important is Kitab al haft wa'l azzila as it is quoted in the works of Muhammed ibn Nusayr. Other texts that are used (later) are Kitab al-Usus (attributed to King Solomon oddly enough) and Kitab al Sirat.

 

Now this Kitab al haft wa'l azzila text teaches us a form of predestination. In sort it says that in the beginning those divine creatures of light that sinned fell down and God created Iblis from their sins. From the sins of th Devil the first women were created and these evil women multiplied with the falled believers (the light creatures). The offspring of good and evil, belief and unbelief, later became the humans. Belief and unbelief became mixed and cannot be distinguised by the human eye. So some people are the good people, the believers and others are evil, the unbelievers. 

 

So rectify this God created the reincarnation which causes the believers to eventually return to heaven, or the divine world of light as it is often called. The unbelievers will turn into lower forms (first zeven times as humans according to some sources, then animals of various kinds and in the end matter).

 

But this is a pre-Alawi text. The actual Alawi cosmology seems to be pretty similar though. Other Alawi texts have some differences but seem to be largely similar overal. Even Suleiman al-Adhani's writing from the 19th century has very similar ideas but it does not say anything about the division of good and evil if I remember correctlu.

 

Now in this kitab al haft wa'l azzila it is said believers can be born from unbelievers and vice versa.

 

This implies if one is a believer one is safe and if one is a unbeliever one will suffer inferior reincarnations.

 

But a book by al-Tabarani, on of the most important Alawi leaders, wrote in his book one is only safe from deterioration once one is initiated into their religion. It does not speak of predestination. Not at all.

 

In the older writings by Khasibi it does say that one who did not came from the divine light cannot return to it. But many Alawi writings do not contains a notion of predestination and infact criticise other sects for dogmatic reasons.

 

Another issue is women, some nasty rumours are spread that Alawi's believe women have no souls. There is a scripture that supposedly states this and Suleiman also claims it but I find it very hard to believe any modern day Alawi believes this because the kitab al haft book says that women are inferior but a good women (with a predestined believers soul) will eventually reincarnate as a man. And unbeliever men might become females. Note how a believing man will never become a woman as they only reincarnate in more high forms.

 

Also al-Tabarani writes this in his time. And during the time of Suleiman al-Adhani the missionary Samuel Lyde spent a few years with the Alawi's and they narrated the same story to him.

 

 

This leads me to an important question. To what extent to the Alawi's really believe in predestination? Have they dropped this belief as is so clearly upheld by those pre-Alawi texts that their religion is based upon?

Ofcourse this would explain how their religion could spread by converting people in Iraq and later Syria. Ofcourse one cannot see if one is a believer or an unbeliever according to the doctrines of kitab al haft.

 

And if they do not, how about women? It could mean any women could reincarnate in inferior forms, and escape from this seems pretty much impossible? Is this the reason modern day Alawi women value doing 'good deeds'? So as to reincarnate in man's or atleast human form and to prevent downward reincarnation? Surely the al haft book teaches unbelievers can stretch their times as a human by doing good deeds. (Some other text even claims a non-believer can remain human for so lang if he truely loves the ahlebayt that eventually he can be cleaned of his unbelief!)

 

One can read on the kitab al haft book and their doctrines here:

http://goaloflife.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/asatryan_mushegh_-_heresy_and_rationalism_-_dissertation.pdf

 

And on their initiation rites here (I warn you, it might be a little shocking how deep their allegoric interpretation goes):

https://www.academia.edu/1464166/Bella_Tendler_Krieger_Marriage_Birth_and_Ba_ini_Ta_wil_A_Study_of_Nu_ayri_Initiation_Based_on_the_Kitab_Al-_awi_Fi_ilm_Al-Fatawi_of_Abu_Sa_id_Maymun_Al-_abarani._Arabica_58_no._1-2_2011_53-75

 

All in all I get the impression basically everyone could in theory be admited into their 'brotherhood'. In the past this was indeed the case, the sect was always closed and secretive but they did convert quite alot of people including Christians, Jews, Isma'ilis and such. After their bloom period the Egyptians and later the Ottomans heavily persecuted them and my assumption is that this is the point they stopped allowing converts into their religion.

 

If I look at their beliefs I cannot find a true theologic reason against not allowing converts, the same goes with the Druze and Alevi's ofcourse who also become closed and inward sects after heavy persecution against them started.

But this is again rather strange, they claim to know the true religion but they do not share it.

It does not matter wether they do believe in predestination or not, their scriptures do not teach belief is hereditary. Infact Kitab al Haft claims the opposite and if they really did believe only they are the Chosen People by birth then this is pure innovation against their own religion and completely crazy considering the fact they themselves decend from converts.

 

 

Does anyone here read into their beliefs well enough to understand what I am talking about and can he share his/her thoughts with me on these issues?

 

Does anyone has logic explaination why they do not allow converts? A belief that only they are chosen seems so wierd and it is totally against their own scriptures and history. My guess is that it is purely because of persecution.

 

Also do they believe in predestination as is often claimed? Reading the piece on inititiation seems to suggest otherwise.

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On 9/5/2007 at 8:11 PM, AkbarHassan said:

Can anyone tell me their basic beliefs? I think my Dad said they respect Ali (as) like Allah (s.w.t.)?

Ghazanfaar Abbas denies he is Nuseriya , and he curses anyone who says Ali AS is God. 

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What i had gone through is, people from india and pakistan are  calling themselves as a nusayri. Just to become famous. Yes there are some people from syria, turkey and azerbaijan who claimed that they are nusayri. 

One more thing i want to share with you guys is that if we gone through the fazayl of imam ali a.s them may be at some point we will get confused that Ali is Allah but the only thing which keep us on the track is that imam ali a.s offers prayers, fast and perform hajj and all other wajibat.

 

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On Monday, September 17, 2007 at 5:57 PM, DonQ said:

(salam)

Please brothers and sisters, keep away from prejudice.

The Alawites do not believe that Imâm 3ali (as) is an incarnation of God or anything, na3oudhu billah.

Instead of stating what you have heard they believe, and it is just rumours trust me, many people have some kind of hatred towards them and try and make their love for Amîr al-Mu'minîn (as) into shirk, just like the Wahhabis do to us! Go and ask the Alawites themselves. Don't be like the Wahhabis judging them and turning their love for Ahlul Bayt (as) into shirk, which it is not.

Wassalâm.

Bro why are you calling Anatolian Alevis kaffir?

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On Monday, September 17, 2007 at 6:05 PM, Malik-Al-Ashtar said:

They are mushrikeen beyond any doubt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawis

Bro I am a turkmen Alevî not Alawi but outsiders understand it wrong.

Allah Muhammed Ali means Allah the greatest muhammed the messenger and Ali the first imam etc 

 

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