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kellyjaz

Sunni & Shia View Of Muawiyah

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i have not cliamed anything - i think you getting me mixed up with someone else.

No, don't try to turn it around - you clearly implied that you could refute points agaisn't muawiyah, when I said that you were unable to..

Your lucky the posts have been deleted ;) But I'm sure if you really wanted to drag this on, we could always get Sis. Aliya to dig out the posts from the Garbage bin for us :)

In any case, make it clear for us where you stand then: "Are you able to refute claims agaisn't Muawiyah or not ?"

To avoid any confusion, just reply with one of the following:

"I am able to refute claims agaisn't Muawiyah"

"I am not able to refute claims agaisn't Muawiyah"

but i will claim this that you cant adeqately prove YOUR claims against muawiyah

Actually, I can :) But before we do, there's no point in discussing it with you, if you are not able to refute them, so I will wait for answer to the question above first. If it yes, then we continue the discussion, if it is no, then you have accepted the "claims" agaisn't Muawiyah.

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No, don't try to turn it around - you clearly implied that you could refute points agaisn't muawiyah, when I said that you were unable to..

Your lucky the posts have been deleted ;) But I'm sure if you really wanted to drag this on, we could always get Sis. Aliya to dig out the posts from the Garbage bin for us :)

In any case, make it clear for us where you stand then: "Are you able to refute claims agaisn't Muawiyah or not ?"

To avoid any confusion, just reply with one of the following:

"I am able to refute claims agaisn't Muawiyah"

"I am not able to refute claims agaisn't Muawiyah"

Actually, I can :) But before we do, there's no point in discussing it with you, if you are not able to refute them, so I will wait for answer to the question above first. If it yes, then we continue the discussion, if it is no, then you have accepted the "claims" agaisn't Muawiyah.

why is it that my shia brothers go crazy on this issue of muawiyah. ive never said and you can ask sis aliya i can refute the shias claims against muawiyah - thats me being honest. but at the same time neither can you refute the sunni version of muawiyah - if you were to be honest.

so the point is that this issue is entirely emotional. the brother is not asking to refute claims he is asking to state the shia and sunni view.

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my honest advise is that from either side you will get the polarised view of muawiyah. so the best solution is always to do your own research and dont rely on others. compare the two views and look how authentic each view is

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Br. Farris, please don't bring me into it. I don't remember even half of what was in this thread that got cleaned up and deleted. apparently there were insults that had been deleted before I got here, but were quoted in other posts, in addition to the posts I deleted personally. but other than that, I don't know what was or was not claimed, so please leave me out of this discussion. (I'm not calling anyone a liar, or defending anyone either, simply saying I don't know, and it should be sorted between the two of you) Jazakallah.

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why is it that my shia brothers go crazy on this issue of muawiyah.

Clearly, The only one losing their temper here, is you..

ive never said and you can ask sis aliya i can refute the shias claims against muawiyah - thats me being honest. but at the same time neither can you refute the sunni version of muawiyah - if you were to be honest.

That is very poor English indeed..

Seriously, I didn't get a word of that at all; Was that a: "Yes, I am able to refute claims agaisn't Muawiyah" or "No, I am not able to refute claims agaisn't Muawiyah" ?

I told you to post one of these two replies only, so there would not be any confusion. You couldn't even do that.

so the point is that this issue is entirely emotional. the brother is not asking to refute claims he is asking to state the shia and sunni view.

No, it really is not emotionally at all. Actually, I have no idea what you're referring to, because I can't seem to recall saying anything emotional at all :blink:

And secondly, this is like the 1027534983th post now, where we have acknowledged the fact that the op doesn't want refutations, but just views, but since this has already been answered we have moved on now - and regardless of this, I have asked you a question (several times now), and for some reason you keep sidetracking, so as to avoid answering this question.

Is it really that hard for you to just answer one simple question ? :mellow:

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Clearly, The only one losing their temper here, is you..

That is very poor English indeed..

Seriously, I didn't get a word of that at all; Was that a: "Yes, I am able to refute claims agaisn't Muawiyah" or "No, I am not able to refute claims agaisn't Muawiyah" ?

I told you to post one of these two replies only, so there would not be any confusion. You couldn't even do that.

No, it really is not emotionally at all. Actually, I have no idea what you're referring to, because I can't seem to recall saying anything emotional at all :blink:

And secondly, this is like the 1027534983th post now, where we have acknowledged the fact that the op doesn't want refutations, but just views, but since this has already been answered we have moved on now - and regardless of this, I have asked you a question (several times now), and for some reason you keep sidetracking, so as to avoid answering this question.

Is it really that hard for you to just answer one simple question ? :mellow:

ok i dont what you trying to get at - if you dont think sunnis like muawiyah then i would advise you to check yanabi.com and sunniforum.com and search muawiyah :)

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ok i dont what you trying to get at - if you dont think sunnis like muawiyah then i would advise you to check yanabi.com and sunniforum.com and search muawiyah

JEEZ DUDE, Is it really so friggin' hard for you to just answer one friggin' question ? :mad:

*sigh*

All you seem you can do is just shout "yanabi.com !", "sunniforum.com !" - You've managed to avoid everything I've said for the last 6 posts..

Edited by The Persian Shah

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JEEZ DUDE, Is it really so friggin' hard for you to just answer one friggin' question ? :mad:

*sigh*

[EDIT] All you seem you can do is just shout "yanabi.com !", "sunniforum.com !" - You've managed to avoid everything I've said for the last 6 posts..

woooaaaaaaaa............calm down

youve not said anything useful in the last post. what point are you making?? just put in simple plain english

[MOD NOTE: EDITED TO REMOVE UNEDITED (NOW EDITED) PART OF QUOTED POST.]

Edited by Aliya

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(salam)

i can just stipulate from the shia side that they hate him obviously as i have yet to meet a shia who doesnt

sunnis on the other hand hold him in high regard as they do for any companion and credit him for his leadership in restating the muslim empire and saving it from obliteration and fighting on sea

the topic "muawiyah" accurately describes the shia view of muawiyah i believe -some of their stories do seem far fetched and without basis

just ask on that topic

brother ,,,you should NOT SAY FAR FETCHED WHEN THEY GIVE YOU PROOF ,, and if you read the thread it was not short of YOU FAR FETCHED REFERENCES!!!!!!!!!

WHY DO you have a far fetched belife in your own sources?

i believe muawiyah was a sahabi hence he deserves my respect. he wasnt infallible none of the sahabah were.

i have not cliamed anything - i think you getting me mixed up with someone else.

but i will claim this that you cant adeqately prove YOUR claims against muawiyah

muawiyah is long dead - he will have to answer to Allah just as abu bakr umar usman ali or any other sahabah will answer to Allah.

my religion is not based upon muawiyah its based on muhammad (pbuh)

so your sahabi was a mounafiq,,so you allow the quality to apply to sahabi's then great that opnes other door,,,

can you refute this PROOOOOOF:

The Messenger of Allah said:

"Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of

hypocrasy."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, v1, p48;

- Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643;

- Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142;

- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128

- Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 1, p202

- Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v4, p185

- Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141

Abu Huraira narrated:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) looked toward Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husain, and

Fatimah, and said: "I am in the state of war with those who will fight

you, and in the state of peace with those who are peaceful to you."

Sunni references:

(1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p699

(2) Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p52

(3) Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p767, Tradition #1350

(4) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p149

(5) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p169

(6) al-Kabir, by Tabarani, v3, p30, also in al-Awsat

(7) Jamius Saghir, by al-Ibani, v2, p17

(8) Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v7, p137

(9) Sawai'q al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p221

(10) Talkhis, by al-Dhahabi, v3, p149

(11) Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p25

(12) Mishkat al-Masabih, by Khatib al-Tabrizi, English Version, Tdadition #6145

(13) Others such as Ibn Habban, etc.

USE YOUR mind and add em up with :

Muawiyah Instituting the curse of Imam Ali (as)

Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, give order to Sa'd, and told him:

"What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab

(nickname of Ali)?" Sa'd replied: "Don't you remember that the Prophet

said three things about (the virtue of) Ali? So I will never curse

Ali."

Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of

Virtues of Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32.

It is reported from Abdullah, son of Ahmad Ibn Hanbal saying:

I asked my father about Ali and Muawiyah. He (Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)

answered: "Know that Ali had a lot of enemies who tried hard to find a

fault in him, but they found it not. As such, they joined a man (i.e.,

Muawiyah, as given in the footnotes) who verily fought him battled

him, and they praised him (Muawiyah) extravagantly setting a snare for

themselves for him.

Sunni references:

- al-Toyuriyyat, by al-Salafi, from Abdullah Ibn Ahmad Hanbal

- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 9, section 4, p197

- History of the Caliphs, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, English version, p202

al-Tabari reported:

When Muawiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan put al-Mughairah Ibn Shubah in charge of

Kufah in Jumada 41 (September 2- October 30, 661), he summoned him.

After praising and glorifying God, he said:

"Now then, indeed a forbearing person has been admonished in the

past... The wise might do what you want without instruction. Although

I have wanted to advise you about many things, I left them alone,

trusting in your discernment of what pleases me, what helps my regime

and what sets my subjects [raiyyah] on the right path. I would

continue to advise you about a quality of yours- do not refrain from

abusing Ali and criticizing him, not from asking God's mercy upon

^

Uthman and His forgiveness for him. Continue to shame the companions

of Ali, keep at a distance, and don't listen to them. Praise the

faction of Uthman, bring them near, and listen to them."

Sunni reference: History of Tabari, English version, events of year 51 AH,

Execution of Hujr Ibn Adi, v18, pp 122-123

NOW BRO FARRIS,,HOW DARE YOU DEFED HIM ,,DO NOT DARE THESE ARE FAR FETCHED INFORMATION THEY ARE ALL FROM YOUR REFERENCES,,HE WAS PURE SINNER AND KAFIR NO DOUBT ,,HE HATED ,,CURSED AND FOUGH AL EL BIET ,,,HOPE YOU CAN TAKE YOUR TIME AND READ YOUR PROOF,,THERE IS MORE!!!!!

my honest advise is that from either side you will get the polarised view of muawiyah. so the best solution is always to do your own research and dont rely on others. compare the two views and look how authentic each view is

WHAT polarised view are you talking about a fasiq and a sinner and a man that does not KNOW TRUE ISLAM ??????

HE WAS NOT A MUSLIM BY ALL ACCOUNTS FROM both SUNNI AND SHIA SIDES.

WHY DO YOU NOT GO TO YOUR REFEENCES AND STUDY HIM SOME MORE.

HERE IS WHERE YOU CAN LOOK:

Muawiyah had four flaws, and any one of them would have been a serious

offense:

1. His appointment of trouble makers for this community so that he

stole its rule without consultation with its members, while there

was a remnant of the Companions and possessors of virtue among

them.

2. His appointment of his son as his successor after him, a drunkard

and a winebibber who wears silk and plays tunburs.

3. His claim about Ziyad (as his son), while the Messenger of God

(PBUH&HF) has said: 'The child belongs to the bed, and the

adulterer should be stoned.'

4. His killing of Hujr and his companions. Woe unto him twice for Hujr

and his companions.

Sunni references :

- History of al-Tabari, English version, The Events of Year 51 AH, v8, p154

- History of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p242

- al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v8, p130 who mentions the first

crime as: "His fighting Ali."

- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p242

- Khilafat Mulukiyat, Syed Abul Ala Maududi, pp 165-166

I hope you read those before you dare defend him!!!!!!!!!!

or if you doubt the proof,,go look em up 1st then refute.

why do you not used your ploriszed idea on your self ,,and have a real open mind to what we give you ,,I doubt you even read!!!

the only excuse you have for defending mouawiha la3anah Allah sawt 3lieh ,,is that you make liars of your valued sources!!!!

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brother ,,,you should NOT SAY FAR FETCHED WHEN THEY GIVE YOU PROOF ,, and if you read the thread it was not short of YOU FAR FETCHED REFERENCES!!!!!!!!!

WHY DO you have a far fetched belife in your own sources?

so your sahabi was a mounafiq,,so you allow the quality to apply to sahabi's then great that opnes other door,,,

can you refute this PROOOOOOF:

The Messenger of Allah said:

"Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of

hypocrasy."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, v1, p48;

- Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643;

- Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142;

- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128

- Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 1, p202

- Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v4, p185

- Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141

Abu Huraira narrated:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) looked toward Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husain, and

Fatimah, and said: "I am in the state of war with those who will fight

you, and in the state of peace with those who are peaceful to you."

Sunni references:

(1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p699

(2) Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p52

(3) Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p767, Tradition #1350

(4) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p149

(5) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p169

(6) al-Kabir, by Tabarani, v3, p30, also in al-Awsat

(7) Jamius Saghir, by al-Ibani, v2, p17

(8) Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v7, p137

(9) Sawai'q al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p221

(10) Talkhis, by al-Dhahabi, v3, p149

(11) Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p25

(12) Mishkat al-Masabih, by Khatib al-Tabrizi, English Version, Tdadition #6145

(13) Others such as Ibn Habban, etc.

USE YOUR mind and add em up with :

Muawiyah Instituting the curse of Imam Ali (as)

Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, give order to Sa'd, and told him:

"What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab

(nickname of Ali)?" Sa'd replied: "Don't you remember that the Prophet

said three things about (the virtue of) Ali? So I will never curse

Ali."

Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of

Virtues of Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32.

It is reported from Abdullah, son of Ahmad Ibn Hanbal saying:

I asked my father about Ali and Muawiyah. He (Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)

answered: "Know that Ali had a lot of enemies who tried hard to find a

fault in him, but they found it not. As such, they joined a man (i.e.,

Muawiyah, as given in the footnotes) who verily fought him battled

him, and they praised him (Muawiyah) extravagantly setting a snare for

themselves for him.

Sunni references:

- al-Toyuriyyat, by al-Salafi, from Abdullah Ibn Ahmad Hanbal

- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 9, section 4, p197

- History of the Caliphs, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, English version, p202

al-Tabari reported:

When Muawiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan put al-Mughairah Ibn Shubah in charge of

Kufah in Jumada 41 (September 2- October 30, 661), he summoned him.

After praising and glorifying God, he said:

"Now then, indeed a forbearing person has been admonished in the

past... The wise might do what you want without instruction. Although

I have wanted to advise you about many things, I left them alone,

trusting in your discernment of what pleases me, what helps my regime

and what sets my subjects [raiyyah] on the right path. I would

continue to advise you about a quality of yours- do not refrain from

abusing Ali and criticizing him, not from asking God's mercy upon

^

Uthman and His forgiveness for him. Continue to shame the companions

of Ali, keep at a distance, and don't listen to them. Praise the

faction of Uthman, bring them near, and listen to them."

Sunni reference: History of Tabari, English version, events of year 51 AH,

Execution of Hujr Ibn Adi, v18, pp 122-123

NOW BRO FARRIS,,HOW DARE YOU DEFED HIM ,,DO NOT DARE THESE ARE FAR FETCHED INFORMATION THEY ARE ALL FROM YOUR REFERENCES,,HE WAS PURE SINNER AND KAFIR NO DOUBT ,,HE HATED ,,CURSED AND FOUGH AL EL BIET ,,,HOPE YOU CAN TAKE YOUR TIME AND READ YOUR PROOF,,THERE IS MORE!!!!!

WHAT polarised view are you talking about a fasiq and a sinner and a man that does not KNOW TRUE ISLAM ??????

HE WAS NOT A MUSLIM BY ALL ACCOUNTS FROM both SUNNI AND SHIA SIDES.

WHY DO YOU NOT GO TO YOUR REFEENCES AND STUDY HIM SOME MORE.

HERE IS WHERE YOU CAN LOOK:

Muawiyah had four flaws, and any one of them would have been a serious

offense:

1. His appointment of trouble makers for this community so that he

stole its rule without consultation with its members, while there

was a remnant of the Companions and possessors of virtue among

them.

2. His appointment of his son as his successor after him, a drunkard

and a winebibber who wears silk and plays tunburs.

3. His claim about Ziyad (as his son), while the Messenger of God

(PBUH&HF) has said: 'The child belongs to the bed, and the

adulterer should be stoned.'

4. His killing of Hujr and his companions. Woe unto him twice for Hujr

and his companions.

Sunni references :

- History of al-Tabari, English version, The Events of Year 51 AH, v8, p154

- History of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p242

- al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v8, p130 who mentions the first

crime as: "His fighting Ali."

- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p242

- Khilafat Mulukiyat, Syed Abul Ala Maududi, pp 165-166

I hope you read those before you dare defend him!!!!!!!!!!

or if you doubt the proof,,go look em up 1st then refute.

why do you not used your ploriszed idea on your self ,,and have a real open mind to what we give you ,,I doubt you even read!!!

the only excuse you have for defending mouawiha la3anah Allah sawt 3lieh ,,is that you make liars of your valued sources!!!!

jazakallah sister for a very good post (although its probably a copy and paste job prbably fom answering ansar) which demonstrates the shia view. this of course contrasts with the sunni view on the varying sunni sites that i mentioned.

oh by the way sister i am a jamati islami and ive read molana mawdudi work and your source is inaccurate.make sure you telll answering ansar that. also i have read quite a bit of al bidayah and i have never come across a disparaging comment by ibne kathir about muawiyah - infact the opposite is true. :)

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ok,,bro farris,,,by the name of Allah sawt ,,,and his prophet ,,saaw and his famili saaw,...

YOU ARE A HOPLESS CASE!!!!!!!!

1- I swear I went NO WHERE near answering answar.2- your hopless hepless case to prove an injust against all human rights point and give dignity to a kafir and a fasiq,,,still show how desprate you are ,,,bec

a)Sunni references :

- History of al-Tabari, English version, The Events of Year 51 AH, v8, p154

- History of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p242

- al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v8, p130 who mentions the first

crime as: "His fighting Ali."

- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p242

why the heck did you neglect those sources,,is the TABARI INACCURATE IS :

1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p699

,,,OHHH AND PERISH THE THOUGH IS SAHIH MUSLIM AN INACCURAT SOURCE IN YOUR BOOKS??

IBN KATHIR?

GOD ? who do you follow then ? why did you pick a speck out of the sea of refrences I gave you ,,enlarge it in your head,,and highlight it and trash all the others ...

wht ,,you becoming a shia ;;:)..:P...close ,,to disbeliving you MAJOR SOURCES,,

-AL TIRMIDIH ,,no enough for you????

---ibn kathir = not enough??

--al tabari??????

oh and I dare you to go find that information in answering anwasr,,bec I DID NOT!!!!!!!!!!

I HAVE RESOURCES TO GIVE YOU AT LEAST 3 OTHER SOURCES ON MOUAWIYAH ,,NONE FROM ANNSWERING ANSWAR.

BUT ANSWER ME ,,WHO OR WHAT THE HECK DO SUNNI BELIVE IN ?

ANYTHING WE GIVE YOU YOU REFUTE ON BASES IT'S TOO WEAK ,INACCURATE .

MAN YOU JUST DUMPED IN THE GARBAGE HALF OF YOUR SOURCES THAT I GAVE YOU.

READ MY POST AGAIN, please:),,,,or you want more NON ANSWWERING ANSAWR.????

Edited by karbalah

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ok,,bro farris,,,by the name of Allah sawt ,,,and his prophet ,,saaw and his famili saaw,...

YOU ARE A HOPLESS CASE!!!!!!!!

1- I swear I went NO WHERE near answering answar.2- your hopless hepless case to prove an injust against all human rights point and give dignity to a kafir and a fasiq,,,still show how desprate you are ,,,bec

a)Sunni references :

- History of al-Tabari, English version, The Events of Year 51 AH, v8, p154

- History of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p242

- al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v8, p130 who mentions the first

crime as: "His fighting Ali."

- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p242

why the heck did you neglect those sources,,is the TABARI INACCURATE IS :

1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p699

,,,OHHH AND PERISH THE THOUGH IS SAHIH MUSLIM AN INACCURAT SOURCE IN YOUR BOOKS??

IBN KATHIR?

GOD ? who do you follow then ? why did you pick a speck out of the sea of refrences I gave you ,,enlarge it in your head,,and highlight it and trash all the others ...

wht ,,you becoming a shia ;;:)..:P...close ,,to disbeliving you MAJOR SOURCES,,

-AL TIRMIDIH ,,no enough for you????

---ibn kathir = not enough??

--al tabari??????

oh and I dare you to go find that information in answering anwasr,,bec I DID NOT!!!!!!!!!!

I HAVE RESOURCES TO GIVE YOU AT LEAST 3 OTHER SOURCES ON MOUAWIYAH ,,NONE FROM ANNSWERING ANSWAR.

BUT ANSWER ME ,,WHO OR WHAT THE HECK DO SUNNI BELIVE IN ?

ANYTHING WE GIVE YOU YOU REFUTE ON BASES IT'S TOO WEAK ,INACCURATE .

MAN YOU JUST DUMPED IN THE GARBAGE HALF OF YOUR SOURCES THAT I GAVE YOU.

READ MY POST AGAIN, please:),,,,or you want more NON ANSWWERING ANSAWR.????

i didnt mean to insult you sister - its just that every post on muawiyah seem to be from al islam or answering ansar etc etc with the same sources and the same mistakes.

and i forgot to ask you when you said you heard that muawiyah and yazid were ashra mubashara who did you hear it from?

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farris....do you WANT me to start arguing with you again?

i believe muawiyah was a sahabi hence he deserves my respect. he wasnt infallible none of the sahabah were.

do all sahabi deserve respect? no matter what they did?

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farris....do you WANT me to start arguing with you again?

do all sahabi deserve respect? no matter what they did?

yeah if you want to get banned - yes i believe that all sahabah deserve my respect. if there is a burning issue then just send me a private message

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if there is a burning issue then just send me a private message

Why are you so afraid to answer questions in public ? Is it because you know you are wrong ? ^_^ Bro, if you can't take the truth heat, then let us know and we'll just drop it :P

Your lucky I'm leaving early tomorrow for one week - I'll have to resume this discussion with you once I get back :)

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Why are you so afraid to answer questions in public ? Is it because you know you are wrong ? ^_^ Bro, if you can't take the truth heat, then let us know and we'll just drop it :P

Your lucky I'm leaving early tomorrow for one week - I'll have to resume this discussion with you once I get back :)

dont worry bro- ill take up your mantle in ur absence ;)

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what do you define as a sahaba?

a person who saw the propeht and became muslim and died a muslim

Why are you so afraid to answer questions in public ? Is it because you know you are wrong ? ^_^ Bro, if you can't take the truth heat, then let us know and we'll just drop it :P

Your lucky I'm leaving early tomorrow for one week - I'll have to resume this discussion with you once I get back :)

brother "the persian shah" - whats your problem?? im sure you mistaken me for someone else.

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a person who saw the propeht and became muslim and died a muslim

if all sahabas were worthy of respect- why were there so many battles after the prophets death between sahabas?

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Because people's nature is to argue look at this site and world if we were all shia we would argue if all sunni we would argue . Just different topics same behavior.

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there were only the ones in ali ra khalifah

oh? so there were no sahabas at all during any of those battles? thats what ur implying?

so the sahaba who wrote down the revelation from the prophet in the quran...who later became an apostate...was during maula ali (as) time?

abu lulu was during maula alis (as) kilaphat?

the death of usman was during maula ali (as) kilaphat?

the denial of fadak to bibi paak (sa) by abu bakr was during imam ali's (as) kilaphat?

finally...this is from your bukhari and muslim. tell me what you think.

Al-Bukhari in his Sahih, part 2, page 149, reported that the Prophet said:

"A number of my companions will come to drink from the basin. When I recognize them, they will be taken away from my sight. I would say: 'My Lord, these are my companions.' And Allah will say: 'You do not know what they innovated after you.' "

Muslim in his Sahih, part 10, page 64, recorded that Anas Ibn Malik reported that the Prophet said:

Men from among the people who accompanied me shall come (on the Day of Judgement) to the Basin. When I see them and they are brought to me, they will be taken away from me. I will say: 'My Lord, these are my companions.' It will be said to me: 'You do not know what they innovated after you.' "

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if all sahabas were worthy of respect- why were there so many battles after the prophets death between sahabas?
there were only the ones in ali ra khalifah

don't mean to sound bad and mean, so can we take it then that the people who murdered omar and usman were (ra)

because according to you they never had any battles or killing during the times of the earlier 3 caliphs.

bro, by this post of yours you just took away the only LAME reason for muawiyya(la) not being a BAGHI. i hope you remember the murder of usman story.

and there goes our dear mother too and her reason.

and guess who is responsible for all of this

farris and his speed.

Edited by haideriam

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