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bobthebuilder

Can Someone Explain The Battle Of Jamal To Me?

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(salam)

read shaeed ghulam hussain najfirehm ullah book qaowel e maqbool dar wahdaet e binte rasool and one is misbha al hadayat vol3 also and there are several books and if any one does not have the najfi rehm ullah book then i ll try to scan it and upload it

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very hard to believe Muhammed had 4 daughters and only 1 went at Mubahila while hussan and hussain Both went. u be the jury...i heard scholars say that the other 3 women were daughters of Khadijas sister.

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Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali madad haq hai

MUNAFIQS LOVE AND RESPECT LANTI MUAWIYA

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Holy Prophet SAWW had other real daughters (apt from The Holy lady of Paradise A.S)

Just bring hadees Narratted by any of them (from any sources)

There R many hadees narrated by Holy lady of Paradise --Bibi fatima A.S and many hadees narrated by Hazret ali A.S

similarly can sunnis bring any hadees narrated by these so called real daughters of Holy Prophet SAWW??

Allah Hafiz

Yaa Ali Madad

Firoz Ali

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I've never seen hadith narrated ABOUT them. There's no evidence of relationship with them, their husbands (as sons-in-law), or their children, that's been brought. No evidence has been brought of Prophet (pbuh) mourning them, or their children, who predeceased him, though we see narrations brought about him mourning his children who died as very young children. There's the blatant exclusion of them, in fact, and that behaviour is not befitting any parent, but particularly a prophet.

For me these are gaps that would need to be filled in, or reconciled before I could be convinced of their biological relationship to Prophet (pbuh)

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Isn't all this off-topic?

Anyway, this is something I found:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said to his wives: "I wonder which one of you will be the instigator of the Camel Affair, at whom the dogs of Haw'ab will bark, and she will be the one who has deviated from the straight path. As to you Humayra (i.e., Aisha), I have warned you in that regard."

History of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p120

al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah

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Umm Salama said to Aisha: "Do you remember the day the Prophet of Allah (PBUH&HF) proceeded and we were with him and he turned left from [a place called] Qadid and sat alone with Ali and whispered to him for a long time? You wanted to force yourself on them; I tried to prevent you, but you disobeyed me and intruded. It did not take long before you returned in tears. I asked: 'What happened to you?' And you replied: 'I approached them and they were in conversation, so I said to Ali: 'I get with the Prophet of Allah one day out of nine, so can you not, O son of Abu Talib, leave me with him on my day?' The Messenger of Allah came towards me and he was red with anger, and said: 'Go back! By Allah, none except those who have abandoned faith can hate him'. Then you returned repentant and sad." Aisha said: "Yes, I remember that."

Umm Salama continued: "I also remind you that you and I were with the Prophet of Allah and he said to us: 'Which one of you will be the rider of the trained camel, at whom the dogs of Haw'ab will bark, and she will have deviated from the right path?' We said: 'We seek refuge from Allah and His Prophet from that'. He touched your back and said: 'Don't be that one, O Humayra.'" Aisha said: "I remember that."

Commentary of Ibn Abil Hadid, v2, p77

Historians have recorded that she was the general leader of the battle, supervising, separating people and issuing commands. Even when Talha and al-Zubair argued as to who should lead the prayer, and when both of them wanted to lead, Aisha intervened and removed them both and ordered Abdullah Ibn Zubair, her nephew, to lead the dissents in prayer.

She would dispatch messengers with letters which she sent to several regions, requesting their assistance against Ali Ibn Abi Talib and urging them with the Jahili zeal. She even recruited twenty thousand or more rabble and greedy Arabs to fight and depose the Commander of the Faithful. Her urging resulted in zealous discord, where large numbers of people were killed in the name of defending and aiding the mother of the believers. The historians say that when the companions of Aisha came to Uthman Ibn Hanif, the governor of Basra, they took him along with seventy of his officers who were in charge of the public treasury as prisoners. They brought them to Aisha who ordered that they be put to death. They were slaughtered as sheep are slaughtered. It is even reported there were 400 men in all and that they were the first Muslims whose heads were cut off whilst they were patient.

History of al-Tabari, v5, p178

Quite clearly, the Mother of believers :)

al-Sha'bi reported from Muslim Ibn Abi Bakra from his father "When Talha and Zubair reached Basra, I put on my sword as I wanted to help them. I visited Aisha, she was ordering, prohibiting; she was in command. I remembered a Hadith from the Prophet of Allah (PBUH&HF) which I used to hear him say: 'A community which has its affairs administered by a woman will never succeed.' I [therefore] withdrew from them and left them". (reported by al-Bukhari, v8, p97; al-Nisa'i, v4, p305; al-Hakim, v4, p525)

Edited by strawberry

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Sunni Star got me thinking:

If Ayesha is a bad person, then basically you are saying that Muhammad had bad judgment in marrying her right? Isn't hating on Ayesha hating on the good judgment of the Prophet?

Also, nevertheless she did go to heaven correct? Just as Ali had made a mistake with drinking (which brought upon the prohibition of alcohol), Ayesha made a mistake here right?

But then again, that Quran line does say for the Prophet's wives to stay home...ugh. confusing.

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Sunni Star got me thinking:

If Ayesha is a bad person, then basically you are saying that Muhammad had bad judgment in marrying her right? Isn't hating on Ayesha hating on the good judgment of the Prophet?

Also, nevertheless she did go to heaven correct? Just as Ali had made a mistake with drinking (which brought upon the prohibition of alcohol), Ayesha made a mistake here right?

But then again, that Quran line does say for the Prophet's wives to stay home...ugh. confusing.

Bob, the Prophet NEVER makes mistakes. Why would you be so close-minded? If he married Ayesha, it was for a function and a purpose. Do you not READ our posts, youre always babbling. It takes efforts to write these posts you know....

The purpose could be to show people's true nature. And to expose the nature of power and position.

And where are u getting this garbage that Ali drank. That is bull.

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If Ayesha is a bad person, then basically you are saying that Muhammad had bad judgment in marrying her right? Isn't hating on Ayesha hating on the good judgment of the Prophet?

The Prophet (saw) married Ayesha for political purposes. Many of the Prophets marriages were due to political purposes.

Also, nevertheless she did go to heaven correct? Just as Ali had made a mistake with drinking (which brought upon the prohibition of alcohol), Ayesha made a mistake here right?

Imam Ali (as) did not drink alcohol- I'm not sure where you got this from.

The only thing with Ayesha's mistake is... there was a lot of blood lost as a result. It's a pretty bad "mistake"... you can't go to war with someone and then just say, "Oh, my bad" after people have been killed. Nonetheless, we should treat her the way that Imam Ali (as) did- he is, afterall, our role model and our imam.

Wasalaam

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asalaamualikum all....again Bob the Builder with the imam Ali drinking, provide proof plz cuz mostly EVERYONE says this is fabrications. we asked u to provide proof b4 and u didnt..now u say it again without proof? Allahafiz 2 all.. PS. brother plz dont believe everything u hear becuz this way a man will go crazy. Imam Ali was great. Islam teaches that aggressiveness is not liked by Allah and he was said to fight only in defense. so of course im thinking its POSSIBLE he would NOT kill a woman sitting in idle on her camel. but rather show his love 4 Allah and forgive people for their mistakes. as their are hadiths that say if an enemy approaches u and he is helpless and runs away this means he values his life, dont kill him..was taught in Imam Ali's Najal Balagah. becuz we have to think its POSSIBLE they may repent.

Edited by gogiison2

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Just as Ali had made a mistake with drinking (which brought upon the prohibition of alcohol)

Where did you hear that? I haven't even heard a Sunni ever say that.

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this is the second time he's bringing this up, WITHOUT A SOURCE OR REFERENCE. If something is not brought to substantiate this claim (astaghfirullah), or he recants this statement as it is slanderous toward Imam Ali (as) (even sunnis do not believe this about Imam Ali (as), I'm pretty positive), he WILL receive disciplinary action, which could be suspension or banning because such disrespect of Imam Ali (as) (Prophet (pbuh) and Ahlul bayt (as) are included in the same rule) is not allowed and is a bannable offense. I'm TRYING to be patient for him to bring proof or amend his statement, but him repeating it makes it harder to dismiss as one off incident.

So... ATTENTION BOBTHEBUILDER, PLEASE EITHER SOURCE/REFERENCE YOUR STATEMENT ABOUT IMAM ALI (as) DRINKING ALCOHOL (ASTAGHFIRULLAH), OR RETRACT THE STATEMENT. FAILURE TO DO EITHER OF THESE THINGS WILL RESULT IN DISCIPLINARY ACTION (POSSIBLE SUSPENSION OR BAN UNDER RULE 1) Blasphemy of any kind towards Allah (sw), Prophet Muhammad (saww), the Ahlul-Bayt and any Prophet of Allah, shall be met with a permanent ban from this site. No warning is necessary. )

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If Ayesha is a bad person, then basically you are saying that Muhammad had bad judgment in marrying her right?

Not at all. Who told you that prophets have to marry good women ? What about the prophets Nooh and Loot ? The Quran says clearly that they were bad and consigned to hell. They married bad women. Why did our Holy Prophet have to marry good women ?

Just as Ali had made a mistake with drinking (which brought upon the prohibition of alcohol), Ayesha made a mistake here right?

As sister Aliya says, you have raised this before and you have been told that it is a white lie.

Imam Ali never touched alcohol.

But then again, that Quran line does say for the Prophet's wives to stay home...ugh. confusing.

Nothing confusing whatsoever ! We can only speculate why the Holy Prophet married Ayesha. Just because he married her does not make her a good woman. Ayesha rebelled against her caliph and the beloved brother of the Holy Prophet.

She rebelled ! Simple as that.

prophet had 4 daughters: Hazrat Zainab, hazrat Umm Khultham, hazrat Ruqiyah and hazrat Fatima. Oh nad no the first 3 were NOT step daughters as shia like 2 believe

Even if what you say is true, what does it have to do with the subject matter of this thread ? Nothing whatsoever.

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Sunni Star got me thinking:

If Ayesha is a bad person, then basically you are saying that Muhammad had bad judgment in marrying her right? Isn't hating on Ayesha hating on the good judgment of the Prophet?

Also, nevertheless she did go to heaven correct? Just as Ali had made a mistake with drinking (which brought upon the prohibition of alcohol), Ayesha made a mistake here right?

But then again, that Quran line does say for the Prophet's wives to stay home...ugh. confusing.

Considering that your insult to Imam Ali (as) and his exalted reputation has hurt me deeply, I, with all my faith in Allah, beseech him to forgive you and to show you the right path if you have uttered this aspersion unknowingly, but if this was done knowingly and on purpose, than I beg Allah (the exalted, the knower of intentions) to show you no mercy and to punish you with the utmost severity.

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I have already expalined this is another thread but since the question has risen again I can not stand by while the mother of the believers, hazrat Aisha is made out to be a bad person, astaghfirullah....

When hazrat Urthman the tird of the rightly guided caliphs, the keeper of the 2 lights (so called becoz he was married to 2 of the prophets daughters 1 after the other when 1 died) was brutally murdered after being besiged in his house by rebels and hypocrites, after he was made a MARTYR.... his tribe began to call for his revenge..... ppl were in chaos as was the Islamic state... the hypocrites had managed to cause upset to the ummah. They flocked to hazrat Ali who wanted nothing 2 do with them, but he accepted the caliphate. Now the political situation was tence... hypocrites were everywhere and hazrat Ali had to sort out the ummah and and then deal with the murderers... however members of hazrat Uthmans family and hazrat Aisha insisted that hazrat Ali deal with the murderes at that instant.... People in Basra began to riot and accuse hazrat Ali of the unspeakable but hazrat Ali was INNOCCENT of what they accused him of but with rumours flying around ppl rioted and began to rebel.... Hazrat Aisha was persuaded to go to Basra to STOP any war that might develop as if ppl saw the mother of the believers then they would lay down their arms.... however upon setting out for Basra the hypocrites began spreading roumours that hazrat Aisha was reblling against hazrat Ali and that she had gone to raise an army against hazrat Ali but that WAS NOT THE TRUTH as I have already said.

Now hazrat Ali set out for Basra to meet the rioters. Upon reaching Basra hazrat Ali met with hazrat Aisha and they Both agreed to peace after hazrat Ali explained that he would deal with the murderes after he sorted the political situation out. Hazrat Aishas camp would disband the nxt day. However the hypocrites feared that there would be no war to disunite the muslims so they fired arrows from hazrat Alis camp into hazrat Aishas camp. Hazrat Ali was UNAWARE of the actions the hypocrites. Likewise hazrat Aishas camp was UNAWARE that it was the hypocrites who fired on them 2 provoke them into war. So hazrat Aishas camp thought that the peace deal was broken by hazrat Alis camp and so they fought. After the battle was over hazrat Aisha and hazrat Ali learned of the actions of the hypocrites and they agreed to peace after they realised the misunderstanding. Hazrat Ali never said anything bad about hazrat Aisha reffering to her always as the mother of the believers so who is any1 to question her or say bad things about her? Hazrat Aisha made a mistake in going to Basra in the first place but we must look at her intentions which were GOOD. She accepted she made a mistake in going, lets leave it at that! The deaths of muslims on BOTH sides are the fault of the HYPOCRITES.

1. where were these family members when the seige was in place. let us assume the number was insignificant, therefore this leads us to another question.

2.how could this insignificant number which could not protect the caliph carry out a massive revolt?

3. what you are saying is that hazrat aisha was also a party to the views of the demanders turned revoltees. the insistance of at that moment pretty much sums up as to who started the war.

4. the underlined portions are full of contradictions, if hazrat aisha went to stop the potential revoltees, than why did she have to make peace with Imam Ali(as).

brother the problem is that one's own conjecture is always filled with contradictions.

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Sunni Star got me thinking:

If Ayesha is a bad person, then basically you are saying that Muhammad had bad judgment in marrying her right? Isn't hating on Ayesha hating on the good judgment of the Prophet?

Also, nevertheless she did go to heaven correct? Just as Ali had made a mistake with drinking (which brought upon the prohibition of alcohol), Ayesha made a mistake here right?

But then again, that Quran line does say for the Prophet's wives to stay home...ugh. confusing.

Please read my post. I didn't just take the effort of searching for nothing, you know. :dry:

Prophet Mohammad (SAW) as already mentioned married her for political reasons. And if you haven't read the Qur'an,

66:10

Allah has set forth an example to the disbelievers, the wife Of Noah and the wife of Lot. They were both married to two servants from among our righteous servants, but they were deceitful/treacherous to their husbands. And they benefited nothing before Allah on the account of their (husbands). Instead they were told: "Enter the Fire with those who enter."

Being the wife of a Prophet does not give someone a special status, as proven by the Qur'an.

And again, provide the reference for Imam Ali (as) drinkin alcohol. I find it absurd that going against the Qur'an, (despite the fact that the Prophet had warned her), going against Imam Ali (despite the fact that the Prophet had told her only a munafiq would go against him) and killing muslims could be called a "mistake"

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I managed to find the lie about Imam Ali (as) in tafsir Ibn Kathir (BTB needs to know the is the ONLY time I will take the time to research HIS unsourced claims, future incidents will result in disciplinary action, particularly if they are slanderous toward Prophet (pbuh) or Ahlul Bayt (as).

actually, after some digging last night, I actually found the allegation about Ali and alcohol as being present in Tafsir Ibn Kathir

http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=11257

Another Reason Ibn Abi Hatim narrated that `Ali bin Abi Talib said, "Abdur-Rahman bin `Awf made some food to which he invited us and served some alcohol to drink. When we became intoxicated, and the time for prayer came, they asked someone to lead us in prayer. He recited `Say, `O disbelievers! I do not worship that which you worship, but we worship that which you worship [refer to the correct wording of the Surah: 109].''' Allah then revealed,

[íóÜÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÁóÇãóäõæÇú áÇó ÊóÞúÑóÈõæÇú ÇáÕøóáóæÉó æóÃóäÊõãú ÓõßóÜÑóì ÍóÊøóì ÊóÚúáóãõæÇú ãóÇ ÊóÞõæáõæäó]

(O you who believe! Do not approach Salah when you are in a drunken state until you know what you are saying). '' This is the narration collected by Ibn Abi Hatim and At-Tirmidhi, who said "Hasan [Gharib] Sahih

And I have yet to ANY shia confirm such a despicable and slanderous thing against an INFALLIBLE IMAM (as are ALL 12 imams from Ahlul Bayt )

the above is taken from my post in the "Ali or Abu Bakr" thread, also started by BTB

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Sunni Star got me thinking:

If Ayesha is a bad person, then basically you are saying that Muhammad had bad judgment in marrying her right? Isn't hating on Ayesha hating on the good judgment of the Prophet?

Also, nevertheless she did go to heaven correct? Just as Ali had made a mistake with drinking (which brought upon the prohibition of alcohol), Ayesha made a mistake here right?

But then again, that Quran line does say for the Prophet's wives to stay home...ugh. confusing.

(salam)

I think bob is just someone who wants to instigate conflict in this forum; no matter how much evidence we give him, he doesn't seem to comprehend anything; worse of all he keeps mentioning that Ali (as) drank alcohol, which everyone knows is untrue...

Maybe he should be banned from this site?

wasalam

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Can you guys all stop hating on the guy and give him the benefit of the doubt!? I don't want the guy to 'not become a Shia' because of some attitude or negative comments shown towards him, I think two three comments about the alcohol were good enough to make him realize such a thing is untrue, no need to BAN the dude!!!

Edited by Ali_Imran

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Considering that your insult to Imam Ali (as) and his exalted reputation has hurt me deeply, I, with all my faith in Allah, beseech him to forgive you and to show you the right path if you have uttered this aspersion unknowingly, but if this was done knowingly and on purpose, than I beg Allah (the exalted, the knower of intentions) to show you no mercy and to punish you with the utmost severity.
I managed to find the lie about Imam Ali (as) in tafsir Ibn Kathir

I think he was merely quoting from some place he came across, perhaps an Internet site. I don't think he meant to disparage our Imam. Surely, one should always present their references. But I think he is seriously trying to learn. And unless he insists on trying to denigrate our Imam, the benefit of doubt might prove a good decision, in the long run.

In any case, the fact of the matter is that the hadeeth has been denounced as a total white lie, by the wider Muslim community. Some people who like to find fault with the Ahlul Bayt try and use it. All said and done, the fact of the matter is that

our Imam never touched alcohol.

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Look calm down guys.

Its one thing i cant stand about modern Muslims. I try to bring discussion, and i get threatened to be banned for it.

Im sorry that I dont have the sources on me at this very moment right now.

One day i was wondering why the Quran "contradicted" itself on alcohol according to Islam haters. so i looked into the topic and learned about the gradual prohibition of Alcohol. I found an article that showed hadith on how alcohol was slowly prohibited. It involved Ali being intoxicated before prayer, but it has nothing to do with him, nor was it a sin or illegal at the time. For me it is proof that the Quran doesnt contradict itself in this topic. I respect and revere Ali as an amazing mentor and leader of Islam. I'm sorry I have offended anyone.

Please, i really dont have time for this. can we just focus on the issue of the Battle of Jamal right now? After exams (which is this monday), i will fully explain my understanding of the gradual prohibition of Alcohol in Islam.

Again, can we not have any more posts in this topic about alcohol? ill make a separate topic later.

Edited by bobthebuilder

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Please, i really dont have time for this. can we just focus on the issue of the Battle of Jamal right now?

Well bro, what else would you like to know, we have explained quiet a bit on this thread.

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Well bro, what else would you like to know, we have explained quiet a bit on this thread.

Good question brother. Sorry for not clarifying.

Why didn't Ali ennull the marriage of Ayesha if she deviated from the straight path, according to that hadith that says that one the prophets wives will deviate?

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BTB, you really should review the rules of the site before making claims (especially since you are the one who brought the off topic alcohol claim) you don't readily have the reference for, and even moreso when those claims involve Prophet (pbuh) or Ahlul Bayt (as). Because such claims as the one made, when unreferenced, IS the sort of thing that is considered blasphemous and therefore WOULD be a bannable offense. In THIS forum (shia sunni) sources are required to be provided for claims, and you should refrain from making claims you can't readily provide sources for (even if you believe the claim to be true, and can source later on, make the claim when it can be backed with sources/references. this isn't only applying to you, but your claim was serious enough that I'm repeating this for everyone to benefit from, not only you, insha'Allah).

Now, you still need to address your claim that a shia said this claim is correct (please show where this person made the claim. afterward, this topic will be dropped)

Because (according to shias and sunnis) Imam Ali (as) was the first male after Prophet (pbuh) to come to Islam after the Prophet (pbuh) announced his prophethood (it is said via hadith, that Imam Ali (as) prayed with Prophet (pbuh) seven years before any other male). Also, Prophet (pbuh) was aware of ALL of Qur'an, even before it was revealed to the general population. He would've certainly taught Ali (as) (as well as other members of his household), who was RAISED in his household, about alcohol and it's prohibition, even if this prohibition was not enforced on the people in general. the allegation is NOT believed by shias, and evidently most sunnis who KNOW the status of Imam Ali (as) as an excellent and most pious and righteous Muslim in ALL aspects, especially in regards to things like this (interestingly enought the ONLY places I found this hadith online were tafsir ibn Kathir and an anti-Islam site). There are other ways to understand the gradual prohibition of alcohol without the attempts to lower the position of, and slandering, Imam Ali (as), even if it was unintentional on your part.

Edited by Aliya

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Alsalaamu alayum

It involved Ali being intoxicated before prayer, but it has nothing to do with him, nor was it a sin or illegal at the time.

I would just like to say...

Saying He [as] drank such is one thing, but saying Imam Ali [as] drank before prayer is another!

His level is much higher than that brother.

:)

WsWrWb

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frankly to say that Imam (as) drank alcohol at all is ridiculous, as he is among those purified and protected from ALL rijs (impurity) by Allah (SWT) as per the latter part of 33:33 in Qur'an.

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Good question brother. Sorry for not clarifying.

Why didn't Ali ennull the marriage of Ayesha if she deviated from the straight path, according to that hadith that says that one the prophets wives will deviate?

after battle of Jamal Ali (A.S) did threaten Ayesha of using this right if she didnt straighten her act and walk away from this battle.

If Ayesha is a bad person, then basically you are saying that Muhammad had bad judgment in marrying her right? Isn't hating on Ayesha hating on the good judgment of the Prophet?

You are overlooking a lot of facts to come to your own conclusions.

1) The prophet (Saww) also married Abu Sufyan's daughter when he was a known enemy of Islam

2) Iblees also had a very high honor before he refused to obey Allah command eventhough there is no argument that Allah can see the future it should make you ponder why he was given that status. The only conclusion to that is you are innocent until you do the crime.

giving you the gist of a sunni narration

The prophet (Saww) distanced himself from both Ayesha and Hafsah for such a while that people begin wondering of their divorce it was then both the FIL visited the Prophet (saww) and he returned back on the 28-29 th day

3) If we do wrong then would it be fault of Allah, Adam or the holy Prophet (saww)? cause afterall Allah created us and bought his religion on us through his prophet. So if we do wrong then one of the 2 sources made a wrong call by us being Muslims.

Sunni star argument is complete bunk

1) A person with noble intention wouldnt have bought an army to fight

2) You claim she is Mother of believers, Ali (A.S) was a believer so why didnt she just summon him instead. Looking at Imam Ali lifestyle do you think he would have refused?

3) The barking dogs of Hawab is another scenario, For all those people that claim "ooohhh she forgot" are the very same idiots that call her a world class jurist!!! how can Ayesha be a world renowned jurist when she has such a weak memory that even events happening in front of her doesnt trigger them?

4) there is no sane reasoning behind ijtehad. You do wrong you will have to face consquences for it regardless! If one soul does not bear the sins of another then Ayesha simply cant merit just by being the wife of the Holy Prophet (saww) and since you trust Ibn Kathir so much you need to look up his definition of mother of believer.

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after battle of Jamal Ali (A.S) did threaten Ayesha of using this right if she didnt straighten her act and walk away from this battle.

but why didnt he go through wiht it?

The only conclusion to that is you are innocent until you do the crime.

Makes sense.

3) The barking dogs of Hawab is another scenario, For all those people that claim "ooohhh she forgot" are the very same idiots that call her a world class jurist!!! how can Ayesha be a world renowned jurist when she has such a weak memory that even events happening in front of her doesnt trigger them?

makes sense. Thats interesting logic. fits well with your name.

Edited by bobthebuilder

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Sister this a transcript of Imam Muhammad al Asi's (db) speech. You can listen to the audio version too. Imam Muhammad Al Asi (db) goes through history without any bias. You can email the website for sources.

The speech talk about

the mistakes Hz Uthmaan (ra) made by brining his relatives to power and not following the sunnah of the first 2 calipahs.

then it talks about Muawiyah's injustice as well.

It also gives Imam Ali (as) opinion on the issue as he said Uthmaan did not die as a masoon nor did he die as a tryant, but his status lies in between that.

It talks about Bibi Ayesha (ra) killing 600 rebels for the crime of a few people. Then it talks about Ayesha (ra) asking the other side to forgive her when it comes to her justice. But there was no justice for the rebels.

Imam Ali (as) with his mercy grants her forgiveness. Then bibi Ayesha (ra) retired from politics.

Basically Uthmaan (ra) has some errors in his last 6 years of rule which caused 2000 people to rebel against him. Imam Ali (as) wanted to let these people tell us why they rebelled, so we can learn from our past mistakes. However, Bibi Ayesha (ra) did not give them this chance. Along with Muawiya who used this as an excuse to make him self a king. If we took Imam Ali (as) advise Muawiyah would never be in power and we would continue to have a just rule for a longer period of time.

brother I have read his lectures and have heard them on audio mashallah he makes a lot of sense and his knowledge of history is indeed very thorough,his criticism of personalities seem without any bias or ulterior motives.Interestingly he is called an iranian by saudi inspired mullahs ... even though one might not agree with him 100% but if both shia and sunni adopt this attitude 90% misunderstandings can be removed

I think he is a sincere muslim and for all sincere muslism I hold no grudge against them even though our views may differ

He is also a mujahid against the saudi opperssion

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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one thing that has not been mentioned in this thread so far[except in the link by brother abdaal ]..... is that the Jamal battle was provoked by a seperate battle of basra [some accounts say there were two] which led to martyrdom of hakim b jibillah and torture/exile of uthman b hunyef governer of Imam Ali.

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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