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Question About Zaidi Shi'as

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Salaam to all,

I was just thinking about the Zaidi Shi'as as of late.

One thing that intrigues me is they accept Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman, despite themselves proclaiming that they are Shi'a.

So let me get this straight, isn't rejecting Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman the cornerstone of Shi'a beliefs? And by accepting them, it defeats the purpose of even calling oneself a Shi'a.

I don't understand, to me it just seems like they are Sunnis masquerading as Shi'as. What about their other beliefs? Do they engage in matam as well? Do they honor Imam Hussein as Twelver Shi'as do?

I await your responses.

ws

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Firstly Zaidi shias do not accept Uthman as the 3rd caliph.

They only Accept the First 2 as righteous caliphs.

Furthermore they believe that Imam Ali was the best for the Job After the Prophet.

The difference with us is that they have a concept in their doctrine of Imamah that a less qualified Man can lead The Ummah when circmstances are difficult and not suitable for the real successor Who was Ali.

They also add that the real Imam who was Ali (a.s) was present so no dangers to Ummah could have risen.

They then accepted Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain as Imams and then after Imam Sajjad they went for Imam Zaid the half brother of Imam Baqir because they have another different doctrine in Imamah from us which entails that Any Descendant From the branch of Lady Fatima wether Hassani or Hussaini who is Pious, Knowledgable In Deen and Shariah and Just man can be an imam if he rises against The corrupt rulers and wages The lesser Jihad against them.

They insist that all shias should support him with his call to uproot evil.

Obviously this belief Means that any of the saadat can be an imam and hence they dont believe in Ismah (infalibility) of their imams they also dont believe that imam is God chosen or hand picked just that the imamat was constricted to the House of Ali and any of his Descendants who rises this also by Implicit Not Explicit order of the Prophet.

This means that they await the birth of any Descendant of the House of Ali who could be the Mahdi who would succeed in his mission as the Qaem one who rises unlike his predecessors who failed.

Lastly the fact that most of Imamiyah fiqh was established During the time of Imam Sadiq means they miss out on his knowledge as they dont accept him as Imam as he did not rise from Jihad.

Thus they follow Hanmbali Fiqh as one of the 4 schools of sunni thought in Jurisprudence.

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That is not entirely true. There are 3 different Zaidi sects. One Sect believes that abu bakir and umar were not sinners but uthman was. Another group believes that abu bakir, umar, and uthman were not sinners, and another group believes that all three were sinners. I'm pretty sure the first mentioned group is the largest but they are not in anyway the only school of thought within Zaidism.

Firstly Zaidi shias do not accept Uthman as the 3rd caliph.

They only Accept the First 2 as righteous caliphs.

Furthermore they believe that Imam Ali was the best for the Job After the Prophet.

The difference with us is that they have a concept in their doctrine of Imamah that a less qualified Man can lead The Ummah when circmstances are difficult and not suitable for the real successor Who was Ali.

They also add that the real Imam who was Ali (a.s) was present so no dangers to Ummah could have risen.

They then accepted Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain as Imams and then after Imam Sajjad they went for Imam Zaid the half brother of Imam Baqir because they have another different doctrine in Imamah from us which entails that Any Descendant From the branch of Lady Fatima wether Hassani or Hussaini who is Pious, Knowledgable In Deen and Shariah and Just man can be an imam if he rises against The corrupt rulers and wages The lesser Jihad against them.

They insist that all shias should support him with his call to uproot evil.

Obviously this belief Means that any of the saadat can be an imam and hence they dont believe in Ismah (infalibility) of their imams they also dont believe that imam is God chosen or hand picked just that the imamat was constricted to the House of Ali and any of his Descendants who rises this also by Implicit Not Explicit order of the Prophet.

This means that they await the birth of any Descendant of the House of Ali who could be the Mahdi who would succeed in his mission as the Qaem one who rises unlike his predecessors who failed.

Lastly the fact that most of Imamiyah fiqh was established During the time of Imam Sadiq means they miss out on his knowledge as they dont accept him as Imam as he did not rise from Jihad.

Thus they follow Hanmbali Fiqh as one of the 4 schools of sunni thought in Jurisprudence.

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Thanks for your added Information Brothers Murabit and AlAwhad as I had gotten the H's Mixed up.

Anwway I wanted to ask about Their Aqeeda is it similar to Orthodox Sunni Ashariyah Creed or are they closer to the Rationalist Mutazila school of Thought.

And hence how do they Differ from Us the Middle way who have struck a balance between Ilme Aqli and Ilme Naqli.

I Guess Questions like Visibility of God? Quran and its createdness or uncreatedness? Eternal values of Evil and Good? Predestination and Free will? should be asked to them To Guage their Viewpoint in their Doctrines of Faith and Belief to gain a clearer picture.

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(salam)

WTH, my cousins are zaidis and i thought they were exactly based on the same bleives as syed shias, ok wats the difference?

Perhaps you are confusing two different things. There is a offshoot sect from the Shi'a called Zaidi, and then there are Zaidi syeds (descendents of the fourth Imam), who are usually to be found among the Ithna Ashari (twelver) Shi'a community (unless they have changed or got stuck up in taqiyyah).

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(salam)

Zaydis believe that Imam Ali(as) was the most suitable person to become caliph..but their outlook is that they are not going to go outright and reject the other 3 caliph. But the real issue here is that they follow the Sunni school of thoughts (Hanafi). How does people who follow Sunnis school of though be consider Shias?? I dont know. :unsure:

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(salam)

Perhaps you are confusing two different things. There is a offshoot sect from the Shi'a called Zaidi, and then there are Zaidi syeds (descendents of the fourth Imam), who are usually to be found among the Ithna Ashari (twelver) Shi'a community (unless they have changed or got stuck up in taqiyyah).

(salam)

exactly.. not all Zaidis are "a lost cause". for example we are Zaidis but we believe in the 12 Imams and thier infallibility. we practice Moharram just like all the other followers of Jafari school of thought. so dont get confused. Zaidi shias are different from Zaidiyyah..

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(salam)

Perhaps you are confusing two different things. There is a offshoot sect from the Shi'a called Zaidi, and then there are Zaidi syeds (descendents of the fourth Imam), who are usually to be found among the Ithna Ashari (twelver) Shi'a community (unless they have changed or got stuck up in taqiyyah).

(salam)

exactly.. not all Zaidis are "a lost cause". for example we are Zaidis but we believe in the 12 Imams and thier infallibility. we practice Moharram just like all the other followers of Jafari school of thought. so dont get confused. Zaidi shias are different from Zaidiyyah..

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(salam)

Why would Zaidis be considered lost? The core beliefs of True Islam (Shia Islam) are the same as Zaidi Shia Islam. They believe in the Imamah and there being 12 Imams, with one in occultation (to the best of my knowledge they believe this). Whether or not Uthman, Umar, and Abu Bakr were sinless or sinful isn't a core belief in Shia Islam, but just a side issue.

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Salaam to all,

I was just thinking about the Zaidi Shi'as as of late.

One thing that intrigues me is they accept Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman, despite themselves proclaiming that they are Shi'a.

So let me get this straight, isn't rejecting Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman the cornerstone of Shi'a beliefs? And by accepting them, it defeats the purpose of even calling oneself a Shi'a.

I don't understand, to me it just seems like they are Sunnis masquerading as Shi'as. What about their other beliefs? Do they engage in matam as well? Do they honor Imam Hussein as Twelver Shi'as do?

I await your responses.

ws

(salam)

I wrote the page on the Zaidi Fiqh on wikipedia, There is a difference between people with the last names Al-Zaidi, Zaidi or Azzaidi, and Zaidis.

Law

In matters of law or fiqh, the Zaidis are actually closest to the SunnÄ« HanafÄ« maðhab with elements of the Shi'i Jafari fiqh schools.

Theology

In matters of theology, the Zaidis adhere to the Mu'tazili school, as do many other Shi'i sects.

Unique Beliefs

The Zaidi Sects

The Zaidi sect was started by the Sahaba of Zaid bin 'Ali's companions Abu'l Jarud Ziyad ibn Abi Ziyad, Sulayman ibn Jarir, Kathir an-Nawa Al-Abtar and Hasan ibn Salih.

The Zaidi sect then divided into three groups:

The earliest group called Jarudiyya (Abu'l Jarud Ziyad ibn Abi Ziyad), was opposed to the approval of the companions of Muhammad. They held that there was sufficient description given by the Prophet so that all should have recognised Imam 'Ali. They therefore consider the companions sinful in failing to recognise Imam 'Ali. They also denied legitimacy to Abu Bakr, 'Umar and 'Uthman, they also denounce Talha, Zubair, and Aisha. This sect was active during the late Umayyad and early 'Abbasid period. Its views although predominant among the later Zaidis, became extinct due to similarities with the Ithna 'Ashari sect.

The second group, Sulaimaniyya (Sulayman ibn Jarir), held that the Imamate should be a matter to be decided by consultation. They felt that the companions, including Abu Bakr and 'Umar, had been in error in failing to follow Imam 'Ali but did not amount to sin. Talha, Zubair, and Aisha became disbelievers.

The third group is Tabiriyya, Butriyya or Salihiyya (Kathir an-Nawa Al-Abtar and Hasan ibn Salih). They are identical with the Sulaimaniyya. The only difference is that this group do not revile 'Uthman.

Zaidi beliefs are moderate compared to other Shi'i sects. The Zaidis do not believe in the infallibility of the Imams, nor that they receive divine guidance. Zaidis also do not believe that the Imamate must pass from father to son, but believe it can be held by any Sayyid descended from both Hasan ibn Ali or Husayn ibn Ali .

Community

The Early Zaidi states were of the Jarudiyya subsect. Many of them became assimilated into the Jafari fiqh after the Seljuk and Ghaznavid invasions.

The first Zaidi state was established in Daylaman and Tabaristan (northern Iran) in 864 C.E.; it lasted until the death of its leader at the hand of the Samanids in 928 C.E. Forty years later the state was revived in Gilan (north-western Iran) and survived under Hasanid leaders until 1126 C.E.

The Buyids were reported to have been Zaidi, as well as the Ukhaidhirite rulers of Najd in the 9th and 10th centuries.

Zaidis form the dominant religious group in Yemen. Currently, they constitute about 40-45% of the population in Yemen. Whilst Ja'faris and Isma'ilis are 2-5%.[1],[2] In Saudia Arabia, it is estimated that there are over 1 million Zaidis and 3-4 million Jafaris.[3]

The leader of the Zaidi community took the title of Caliph. As such, the ruler of Yemen was known as the Caliph, al-Hadi Yahya bin al-Hussain bin al-Qasim (a scion of Imam al-Hasan (as), grandson of the Prophet) who, at Sa'da, in 893-7 C.E., founded the Zaidi Imamate and this system continued until the middle of the 20th century, until the revolution of 1962 C.E. that deposed the Zaidi Imam.2

Yemeni Zaidis in Yemen and Saudi Arabia (Saudi stole land from Yemen) are mixed between the three subsects. The commemorate Ghadir Khum and Ashura but not as publically as the Jafaris.

Al-Zaidi (Az-Zaidi)

People with the last name Al-Zaidi (Az-Zaidi) are Sayyid, Arab descendents of Zayd bin Ali that either stayed in Kufa, Iraq or returned to Al-Hijaz and migrated to Al-Asir and Northern Yemen. They are predominantly Twelvers but some are of the Zaidi fiqh

Zaidi Wasitis

Some Zaidis are known as Wasitis. Zayd ibn Ali was martyred in Kufa, Iraq, many of his descendents either returned to al-Hijaz or remained in Iraq. Some of those who stayed in Iraq settled in Wasit. Some descendants from Wasit then moved to the Indian subcontinent. These Zaidis believe in twelve Imams and are part of the Shia Ithna Asharia. Most of them settled in India and Pakistan. 2

The biggest group of Zaidis believing in twelve Shia Imams is known as Saadat-e-Bara. Saadat means descendant of the Prophet Muhammad and Bara means twelve in Hindi and Urdu. Saadat-e-Bara's numbers are highest in Karachi (Pakistan) and Muzaffarnagar (India).

(salam)

Edited by Al-Zaidi

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lol, zaidi shias are causing fitnah in Yemen, trying to establish shia rule LOOOOL! hope they fail :!!!:

They ruled Yemen for over a 1000 years. It was not the Shia but others who caused the fitnah.

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AoA,

By the grace of Allah I am a Zaidi Syed... But as mentioned earlier in this section.. I dont know about others but we follow hanfi fiqh.. And my ancestors converted to ahl-e-sunnat....my friend who is a rizvi syed and some other naqvi syed told me that this is because your forefathers practised taqyyah...  I think the reasons mentioned about the uniqueness of Zaidis are true and thats why my forefathers might have thought and find similarities in sunni islam..

Edited by Syed Mohammad Abbas Ali

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