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Thors Hammer

Kohmeini's alleged pedophile qoute.

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In reply to the issue on slavery, the myth of Islam first having built on slavery must be dispelled. I got a book given to me which claims that slavery was something that the Europeans just picked on and actually was something that is the fault of Islam. Thers is a fundamental difference between Islamic and Western Slavery, firstly Islamic slaves have the right to become free, whilst no such right exists during the days of westrern slaverey. Islamic slavery is necessarily a methodology of affording protectction by ascribing the 'slave' as a client to a clan... where by they get equal status with the powers that reign. Moreover thay were all superior @slaves@ free to rise through promotion, not a very slave-like notion.

Most importantly, all the great dynasties of Islam in the mideavel period were where so called (superior) 'slaves' became Kings and ran the show, like all the Turkish dynasties of the Ghaznavids, the Ghorids, the Saljuqs, the Buhayvids, the Mamluks of Egypt and so on, and Islamic 'slavery' was never confined to race, which diminishes its racist colouring.

The mother of Al-Mustansir was a sudanese woman, the mother of Mohammad ibn hannifiyya (son of Imam Ali AS) and Zayd Ibn Ali (as) were from Sind, Imam Sajjad's (as) mother was Persian, the King of Morrocco from Ibn Battuta's Risala was a negro, and this is all between the 10-14th centuries and before. i doubt if even today, a 1000 years later, a non-white person, even a half-caste can be head of any western government, whether they be believing Western Christians or not, and there certainly is not, or cannot be a non-white pope or a non-white mainstream religious western-christian anything.

And woe be upon those, those people of tribulation, who have reduced the religion of all createdness, of Omniscience, to the state of being of an animalistic instinct, Woe be upon them!

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Selam alaycom,

I have both volumes (2) of Tahrir al Wasila at home. Thors Hammer, would you like a photocopy/translation of a particular section?

Peace,

Um Ali

Where has Mr. Hammer disappeared ?

Mr. Hammer, please respond to sister and give her your reference, if it is not a forgery.

And let your gloating come to an end !

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First of all Stone Gohlem, i do know what you have NOT studied based on your ignorance. For instance if you knew Hebrew you would know that the spelling you are striving for is "Golem" (גֹּלֶם), not "Gohlem." If you knew anything about Judaic mythology, you would know that there is no such thing as a STONE Golem, as Golemim are by definition CLAY automatons.

First of all in your ignorant arrogance you make assumptions about what my screen name is or isn't based on nothing.

So it is clear from you ignorance what you do NOT know and what you have NOT studied.

Let me ask you something, seriously, are you mentally ill?

As for a Jewish Muslim being like a black Klansman, you are again spouting WORDS without bringing evidence. In Islam there are neither races nor tribes according to Muhammad (sal) himself in his last sermon at Ghadir Khumm.

Better check out the reality of islam, not the mythical one, because a sizable amount of your fellow muslims here would like nothing more then to see every Jew, including you, eradicated off the face of the earth. I borrowed the below from thors signature.

poiuyt

Posted: Sep 26 2003, 01:22 AM

To all:

My views are mine- as yours are to you. And when I say all jews are legitimate targets- I mean ALL. Men, women, children- everyone. The jewish parasite children grow up to kill Muslims. The ENTIRE race/plague must be removed and will be removed

As for your comment: "I'm not as polite as Thor, I don't suffer fools, and you are the joker in this deck!"

Well it certainly is strange then that i am reinforcing so many Muslimin's faith through what i am posting here (according to what they themselves have written and told me).

Once again, if you are a Christian, then according to `Isa al-Masih  you are in danger of the fires of Hell for referring to me as a fool. If you are not a Christian (like most who come here to argue), then i cannot understand why you are here in this forum.

I'm what would be called an Penacostal Agnostic, so what I believe is nothing that doesn't have some solid evidence, of which makes the science fiction you portray is out of the question.

I do believe you are reinforcing the muslims faith though, with all the guns and Mahdi stuff where you guys get to kill all of us kafir in the end days. My what a pleasent religion of peace that is.

As for Thor's "challenge" he himself has not proved the number of slave ships that existed at that time, he has merely CLAIMED to know this number. i referred him to the research where the statistics originated as i do not pretend to know how many existed over that 400 year span of time (as i am sure this figure fluxuated greatly from decade to decade, let alone century to century).

You don't pretned to know, because know full well there was no 402,000 ships back in those days, no matter if it was a 3 hundred year period. get real!

Now Thor may have us all fooled, he may in actuality be a brilliant scholar who for some reason just keeps getting proven wrong about everything he posts; his refusal to prove his alleged Cherokee heritage through presenting a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood (CDIB), issued by the Bureau of Indian Affairs is one such matter.

Say listen, he gave photos of himself and his relatives, and you said you would do the same, where is your photos, because he lived up to his end of the bargain and you didn't, so in my book, you are a welcher!

Another is the fact that FBI agents DO where suits, sports jackets and the like when conducting warrentless searches (which i proves with a quote and he did not provide any quote to the contrary). Another still is the issue with his slander of Khumayni . If Thor is secretly a brilliant scholar who could write an award winning history text like James W. Loewen, then he should do so. Until he READS the text "Lies My Teacher Told Me : Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846 ) and counters the painstaking documentation therein, then there is no reason to assume that this is the one time that he has struck gold and rendered something factually accurate.

You really like to hear yourself talk, don't you?

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"First of all in your ignorant arrogance you make assumptions about what my screen name is or isn't based on nothing."

Based on the fact that a Golem is phonetically the same as "Gohlem" and based on the fact that a Golem is CLAY and you put "Stone" (both originating from the Earth), it seems clear that this is what you meant. What exactly is a "Gohlem" with a Hay then if my "assumption" was "ignorant?"

"Better check out the reality of islam, not the mythical one, because a sizable amount of your fellow muslims here would like nothing more then to see every Jew, including you, eradicated off the face of the earth. I borrowed the below from thors signature."

Alright then i will check it here and now. If ANY Muslim here has an objection with me being ethnically Jewish and if ANY Muslim believe that this makes me an enemy of Islam despite the fact that i myself am a practicing Muslim, then PLEASE speak up now and let us all know.

To this day i have never faced anything but intrigue from Muslims at the fact that i am Jewish and Muslim. Even some formerly racist Muslims have changed their mind about painting Jews with a broad brush after having met me. i am friends with a number of Palestinians who have themselves been arrested and tortured by the IDF. They say that my ethnicity has never even once given them cause to pause (and i have indeed asked them about this).

So one again you are wrong (which is not surprising since you have yet to be correct about anything that you have posted here). Moreover, you take the post of one individual and claim this for all or even most Muslims. But i will tell you what, i will write to this individual that Thor/you quoted and i will speak with him about what he said. i can almost guarantee that he will change his opinion after talking with me.

"I'm what would be called an Penacostal Agnostic"

In otherwords you are not a Christian either! Is there anyone here besides Solid Rock, and that Trinity character who are actual Christians as recognized by all major denominations of Christianity and the Vatican? That is, are there any Christians who believe in the Bible including the letters and dogma of Paul?

"Say listen, he gave photos of himself and his relatives, and you said you would do the same, where is your photos, because he lived up to his end of the bargain and you didn't, so in my book, you are a welcher!"

i asked for one photo specifically: that of his father. He refuses to provide this or to present a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood (CDIB), issued by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Either of these would prove to me that his father is FULL blooded Cherokee. The picture of him proved MY point, not his since he looks completely European in that picture. The picture of his supposedly "Mohawk" Great Grandfather not only doesn't prove his FATHER's supposed full heritage, it also does not resemble a full Native American either. The picture of his Grandfather likewise does not prove that his father is FULL native American (as there are three other Grandparents to account for), and his Grandfather also is very lightskinned, seemingly indicating that though his grandfather's nose is larger than the Anglo variety, he likely is not FULL Cherokee either!

i have asked for one of two simple things and i offered to furnish a photo of my Grandfather who is HALF Cherokee if he produces a picture of his father; so that one could see that my HALF Cherokee grandfather is likely darker than his supposedly FULL Cherokee father. He has refused to do this or to present a CDIB.

"You don't pretned to know, because know full well there was no 402,000 ships back in those days, no matter if it was a 3 hundred year period. get real!"

They do not need to be that many ships since the same ship would make the voyage more than once. Moreover, you have not provided any text for me to refer to that states the number of these ships as contrary to the claims of the text i referred you both to. If you cannot even study the position of your opponents do not expect to be taken seriously by those who take the time to research both sides of the story.

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Yea i'm not a regualr on this forum of shiachat but this thread is moving away from the topic...which was the anti-khomeini quotes.

Stone you seemed to be very knoweldgable about thor or you may even be him..i don't personally care if you want to change names or whatever!

but since thor is the one who claimed that he thought these quotes may be true becasue the references may have just been a typo error or something...so stone either get back on the strong link you seem to have with thor, or thor can u suddenly reappear again to justify what you said or just be a man and not a coward and just admit you're wrong!

Please don't get into other arguments to track of the subject! only proves how unable you are to answer the question at hand!

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Stone you seemed to be very knoweldgable about thor or you may even be him..i don't personally care if you want to change names or whatever!

but since thor is the one who claimed that he thought these quotes may be true becasue the references may have just been a typo error or something...so stone either get back on the strong link you seem to have with thor, or thor can u suddenly reappear again to justify what you said or just be a man and not a coward and just admit you're wrong!

I don't recall him saying he thought they were true, just that it didn't seem right that the shias wouldn't have something on the net correcting this stuff if it's a lie.

Why don't you ask your board moderators where he is, since he is almost always around, they probably banned him again?

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Excuse me, but putting down the wrong number on a sura doesn't mean it doesn't exist, does it?

This was his defence when it was said that the quotes were untrue, indicating that he thought the referecnes were wrong-not the quotes being untrue!...so we kindly asked him to re-quote with the right refernces and it seems like we are still waiting!

i'm not asking the mods becasue they are not all up this thread defending thors like you are. You seem to know alot about him and his views so i'm asking you!

If you can't ask the organ grinder why not question the monkey?!

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Based on the fact that a Golem is phonetically the same as "Gohlem" and based on the fact that a Golem is CLAY and you put "Stone" (both originating from the Earth), it seems clear that this is what you meant. What exactly is a "Gohlem" with a Hay then if my "assumption" was "ignorant?"

Try looking up the spelling of the word gohlem in other languages for a starter, Mr. expert.

"

Better check out the reality of islam, not the mythical one, because a sizable amount of your fellow muslims here would like nothing more then to see every Jew, including you, eradicated off the face of the earth. I borrowed the below from thors signature."

Alright then i will check it here and now. If ANY Muslim here has an objection with me being ethnically Jewish and if ANY Muslim believe that this makes me an enemy of Islam despite the fact that i myself am a practicing Muslim, then PLEASE speak up now and let us all know.

Why don't you start a seperate thread with a poll asking just that? Be sure and get the usual suspects to answer though, because they would like to see you dead pal!

To this day i have never faced anything but intrigue from Muslims at the fact that i am Jewish and Muslim. Even some formerly racist Muslims have changed their mind about painting Jews with a broad brush after having met me. i am friends with a number of Palestinians who have themselves been arrested and tortured by the IDF. They say that my ethnicity has never even once given them cause to pause (and i have indeed asked them about this).

Once a Jew, always a Jew, live with it!

So one again you are wrong (which is not surprising since you have yet to be correct about anything that you have posted here). Moreover, you take the post of one individual and claim this for all or even most Muslims. But i will tell you what, i will write to this individual that Thor/you quoted and i will speak with him about what he said. i can almost guarantee that he will change his opinion after talking with me.

Better yet, meet him in person and share a ham sandwich, I will buy :D

"I'm what would be called an Penacostal Agnostic"

In otherwords you are not a Christian either! Is there anyone here besides Solid Rock, and that Trinity character who are actual Christians as recognized by all major denominations of Christianity and the Vatican? That is, are there any Christians who believe in the Bible including the letters and dogma of Paul?

Hey if you guys want to believe in science fiction fine, but geez, Gene Roddenberry stuff was at least plausable, whereas you koran and bible thumpers really are in outer space!

"Say listen, he gave photos of himself and his relatives, and you said you would do the same, where is your photos, because he lived up to his end of the bargain and you didn't, so in my book, you are a welcher!"

i asked for one photo specifically: that of his father. He refuses to provide this or to present a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood (CDIB), issued by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Either of these would prove to me that his father is FULL blooded Cherokee. The picture of him proved MY point, not his since he looks completely European in that picture. The picture of his supposedly "Mohawk" Great Grandfather not only doesn't prove his FATHER's supposed full heritage, it also does not resemble a full Native American either. The picture of his Grandfather likewise does not prove that his father is FULL native American (as there are three other Grandparents to account for), and his Grandfather also is very lightskinned, seemingly indicating that though his grandfather's nose is larger than the Anglo variety, he likely is not FULL Cherokee either!

You are a welcher! In one post you stated if he provided you with a photo of his father, or grandfather, you would provide him with a photo of yours, you reneged!

Anyways, you are starting to sound like you are Reinhardt Heydrich doing checks on the blood lines of aryans.

"You don't pretned to know, because know full well there was no 402,000 ships back in those days, no matter if it was a 3 hundred year period. get real!"

They do not need to be that many ships since the same ship would make the voyage more than once. Moreover, you have not provided any text for me to refer to that states the number of these ships as contrary to the claims of the text i referred you both to. If you cannot even study the position of your opponents do not expect to be taken seriously by those who take the time to research both sides of the story.

I read his answer, and he took into account the ships making more then one trip a year, giving it three voyages yearly.

Even that was absurd for him to have given you that, a sailing ship would take up to at least 6 months or more to make one round trip, taking into consideration weather, provisions, and the need to rest the crew.

He beat you to the ground on this issue, there is no way possible with the amount of sailing ships available in those days, for that many slaves to have been transported, even if every ship available were committed to that task.

Admit you were wrong, it would give you some credibility in the future.

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You sound like a carbon copy of Thor. How interesting that just as Thor stopped posting (possibily banned insha'Allah), we see this secondary account of yours/Thors reactive.

Also you seem to have been following my posts with Thor, yet you play stupid that you didn't know that i am Jewish.

i will take you up on your challenge to start a separate poll to see if anyone thinks i cannot be Muslim because i am Jewish in ethnicity. You are beyond ignorant.

Additionally, show me one quote where i said that if he showed a picture of anyone but his father that i would post a picture of anyone in my family? i have no problem posting a picture of my living Grandfather, but i will maintain my standard that he post a picture of his FATHER or provide me with a CDIB (which would not require him to post anyone's picture). Nevertheless, the picture of his Grandfather confirmed what i was saying that his father is not full Cherokee since neither does his Grandfather appear to be.

Moreover, what language are you saying "Gohlem" is? There is not "translation" of "Golem" in a single term in any other language than Hebrew, since this is a Jewish character of mythology in the first place!

Finally, you (i.e. Thor), said: "He beat you to the ground on this issue, there is no way possible with the amount of sailing ships available in those days, for that many slaves to have been transported, even if every ship available were committed to that task."

Interestingly neither you nor him (likely the same individual), have provided any text to say how many ships there were. i have provided you award winning research on this matter. Take it or leave it as you will, but in the absense of anything to counter "Lies My Teacher Told Me" you/Thor have CERTAINLY not "beat" anyone to the ground.

Beyond that, anytime Mr. No-Named Courageous "Thor" wants to meet for lunch i would be happy to. i take it by you saying that you will pay you mean that you will fly him/you out to Cincinnati?

Edited by Naziri

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You can't even get the threads straight, more or less admit that it was physically impossible to transport all those slaves, you really are pathetic.

BTW, the lunch invitation was for you and your fellow muslim poiuyt who wants to kill all the jews, was in response to this post of yours,

But i will tell you what, i will write to this individual that Thor/you quoted and i will speak with him about what he said. i can almost guarantee that he will change his opinion after talking with me.

not you and Thor.

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Fine, i'd LOVE to have lunch with that individual as well. i would be happy to clear up any misconceptions he has. So you'll pay for his trip out to Cincinnati? That's great to hear. Confirm this and i'll get in touch with him to set up lunch somewhere.

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Selam alaycom,

I have both volumes (2) of Tahrir al Wasila at home. Thors Hammer, would you like a photocopy/translation of a particular section?

Peace,

Um Ali

Where on earth is our brilliant master story-teller , the unforgettable Mr. T. Hammer ?

We are going to tell some more stories ?

Are we ?

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You can't even get the threads straight, more or less admit that it was physically impossible to transport all those slaves, you really are pathetic.

BTW, the lunch invitation was for you and your fellow muslim poiuyt who wants to kill all the jews, was in response to this post of yours,

But i will tell you what, i will write to this individual that Thor/you quoted and i will speak with him about what he said. i can almost guarantee that he will change his opinion after talking with me.

not you and Thor.

"And by the way, yeah, from a conservative viewpoint there were 10 million Native Americans when Columbus came to the Americas. However, there are only 500,000 who can claim to be true Native American. So LOL on that as we go to sleep and remember the dead. From a conservative viewpoint, as LOW as 80,000,000 million Africans lost their lives over approximately 315 years, if you include the Spanish institution of slavery in the Americas, that's approximately 250,000 people a year losing their lives. That's one third of Africa's potential gone forever. So LOL on that as we go to sleep and remember the dead." - My original response

Since you are familiar with the original post concerning the transportation of slaves then you should be familiar with my post regarding it as well. There are various estimates regarding the number of Africans who were brought over to the Americas during the "Period of Captivity". There are some who downplay the number and will say a half million were brought to the Western Hemisphere over a 315 year time span. There are other academics who look at another conservative number of 10 million. Still other academics look at the still conservative number of approximately 80 million. I tend to agree with 80 million because the transportation of human cargo was as much a big business then as the transportation of narcotics now. An elaqborate network of stopping points and shipping methods were used to move this "weight". There are many academics you may read such as Herbert Apetheker. You should also read some of ship journals. There are even CDs that have very descriptive scans of the journals now. I am attempting to get my hands on them as I am still tracing my ancestry (We have made it to 1620 and that's just in America). Keep in mind, even during the Civil War, the transportation did not stop. In fact, the last slave ship that came to America was in 1888 and docked at Savannah, GA. I have heard the numbers of 300 million and even 600 million before but what tends to happen is that some inflate the numbers. I, personally, think that is too high.

However, 1 African being brought over here was 1 too many. Africa has never recovered. Her best were brought over here. There were jurists, doctors, soldiers, academia and many others who represented various professions. Froget about the numbers talk about the severe oppression they underwent. Women having their wombs cut open while pregnant to teach the captured about running away. People being laid side by side and top of each other in cramped quarters for approximately 3 to 4 months from Africa to the West. The people had been stripped of their clothes. They defecated on each other. Women were sometimes raped. Young girls were sometimes raped. Young boys were sometimes raped.

This is why when you heaqr stories of Muslims still practicing thier faith despite these odds is heart wrenching.

There was a group of Africans from the Ibo tribe that they were known for being suicidal when they got on these ships that they would jump off and rather be eaten by sharks instead of dealing with this oppression. People being stripped of their names. Your name is everything. That's who you are. When you can't be yourself then what are you.....who are you??? Being stripped of your language. The ability to communicate. That's why it is so much a blessing for me when I go back to Savannah and I can walk in some of the very old churches like First African Baptist and you can see the Arabic writing in the pews and you can feel the captured ones' drive to maintain some sense of self. Or when I can go to the Georgia Historical Society and read a copy of Bilali Muhammad's copy of Surah Fatiha in the Arabic. Or you can go to Trinidad and see the descendants of Mandingo, who though captured, set up Muslim communities and this happened in Brazuil, Charleston, and many other places.

For those really interested, take a trip to the coasts of South Carolina and Georgia especially around Savannah, Hilton Head, Charleston, etc. and you can still see and hear the influence. As an African American, I'm not caught up on the numbers but I am caught up on the experiences. I was blessed to grow up with both sets of my great grandparents and I knew my father's great great grandmother. We have longevity in my family. My great grandfather's youngest brother just passed away 2 years ago at the young age of 107. Some of these people blessed me with their experiences and the experiences of their fathers and mothers (African and Indian). So anytime you oppress 1 person then that's 1 person too many. Someone and some people will have to answer for that 1 person as well as the millions of others. This is a taboo subject in America. No one likes to deal with it as it is part of the "dark past" just like some in Ahlul Sunnah do not like to deal with the past. This is extremely off topic so I will stop. But brothers, don't get caught up on the numbers as long as there is a Djibril, a Jamal, a Hanif, an Aqil, a Musa, a Yaseen, a Jihad, an Ibrahim, then you should know we came from somewhere and just didn't pop up one day. The approximately 35 million Africans in America came from somewhere. Many lives were lost. They continue to be lost. Allah will bring us out of this slump. I see it. An African American somewhere is taking shahada. We are coming back to our faith and I won't mention those coming to the Ahlul Bayt (A.S.). These numbers are steadily rising.

Deep, a man couldn't say his own name out loud or call on his deity out loud. Those who did were either killed or beaten. This is why Bilal Muhammad and Abdur'Rahman and Ayyub ibn Sulayman were men of honor. Bilal refused to eat haram meat, made the salat daily, according to the narratives of both his master and fellow captured, they all say he abstained from liquor and fasted the month of Ramadhan all the days of his life. Incredible, many of us catch a cold and don't make salat. May Allah bless these men and keep their memories alive.

Naziri, if you haven't already, I recommend you read "Servants of Allah - African Muslims Enslaved in the Americas" by Sylviane A. Diouf and "They Came Before Columbus" edited by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima. Excellent books and unbiased writing. You may have these already but if not, they are worth it.

Wa Salaam

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