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Zain

Jinnah biggest blunder to create Pakistan

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I would like to ask a question

If you add up the Muslim population of Pakistan, Bangladesh and India..how much would that be(percentage wise okay) compare to the hindus of India?

Thank you

There are 100 million Muslims in India, almost 200 million Muslims in Pakistan and Bangaldesh together. The Hindus of India are over 900 million.

Edited by YouthOfAli

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my 2 cents....

gandhi nehru n jinnah are to blame for all the deaths during the sepertion of pakistan / india.... all those ppl were united b4... but all of a sudden ppl hate everyone else...

neighbours hate neighbours...

total bunch of [Edited Out]....

personally all 3 should have been lined up in front of a firing squad.

if it wasnt for them we could have been one of the top most countries... to hell with us n uk... nothing compared to hindustan as it used to be called b4... just a bunch of power hungry losers...

Ali

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Can everyone take a deep breath please :)

I'm a Pakistani but I don't think I'm a Pakistani Hard Core Nationalist like some of my friends. (obviously there's another side to me when rascism kicks in :angry: -cause I can't stand rascist comments period!)

I really don't understand why all of you are fighting over something that happened over 50 yrs ago and the likelyhood that none of us were born at the time of partition. I've heard some scary and distressing stories about the time of partition.

Those of you who don't understand why it happened should perhaps read more.

It may sound cosy that Pak's and India should have been one, I've heard it from Hindu's myself, "we have the same culture, same language, same clothes, same taste,...practically the same in everything and the only thing that divides us is religion"

Yes that is the biggest and the most important thing that we keep forgetting..."RELIGION"

When the British were kicked out of India, Hindu's started to turn on Muslims, it became difficult for Muslims to live with Hindu's. Basically Muslims were treated like third class citizen's in their own country. Hindu's don't consider us Pak, just as we don't consider them Pak. So how are two religions meant to work together like that? tell me? Isn't there a fatwa for us that we can't eat or live with Hindu's esp. if they touch soemthing wet etc.? I'm sure u've all heard/read it.

So the Muslims decided that they wanted their own land/or were kicked out/whichever way history records it, Sikhs were told (by Hindu's) to help kill muslims and we'll give you ure own Khalistan. ( which to this day hasn't happened-the Sikhs getting Khalistan that is)

India was split wrongly, Lord Mombatton-the main culprit in this (we wouldn't have the Kahsmir crisis if it wasn't for him)

As far as I know we were meant to get alot more than we got, i think the original was to get the whole of Punjab but they only gave a small amount and decided to give us east pakistan now Bangladesh.

U tell me how Pak meant to look after east Pak? look how far pak is from bangladesh. anyways that is what happened then, Paks got the worst from the deal.

But you tell me now how we Pakistani's are not happy in our land? I rather live in Pak than in India at any given day..now with the Hindutva parade going on. Indian Muslims are not liked in India anymuch more than 50 odd years ago, they are just tolerable. Pakistani Muslims are just grateful that they can practice their religion comfortably.

Yes Pak has its problems, biggest problem being leadership who love kissing the a** of US of A. And the other biggest problem being the Muslim Ummah with the formation of Wahabbism and Talibanism.

It doesn't matter if the leader was Shia or not cos Pakistan was a Muslim movement not a Shia movement. Shia's and Sunni's were living happily side by side, so many Sunnis' used to come to azadari of Imam Hussain (as) but things have changed over the decades with the corrupt leaders in charge etc and the rise of extremist mullah's. If you think about it, the Sunni's here in the UK have no idea what they believe anymore with the Wahhabi's sugar coating everything...you know what I mean...its the same in Pak but under the influence of currupt leaders and influential mullahs backed up by money.

The Shia's in Pak need to educate themselves to learn about real Islam and get organised if they want to make a difference but that's not the fault of some bloke who founded Pak over 50 yrs ago.

No matter how much we *think* we like the idea of Pak and India being one, or not really understanding why partition happened in the first place isn't an issue we should be fighting over. Or who we blame for that matter. It happened and we are living with the consequences, everyone is entitled to their own opinion if they liked the idea or oppose the idea. We can't put the two nations back together again, its history and we can't change it, we have to deal with it and move on.

My 2p.

Takecare

Khudahafiz and please calm down :)

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India was split wrongly, Lord Mombatton-the main culprit in this (we wouldn't have the Kahsmir crisis if it wasn't for him)

What you said is correct. But the general was known as Mountbatten and not Mombatton. Just thought I'd clarify :)

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LOL@YoA the english teacher :P :P

Arey yaar, don't flatter me :P

LOL!!!! 

Sowwweeee!!!

oops!

Thanks bro, my BIG mistake!!! LOL!

Don't mention it, its ok.

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Imam Khomeini said Jinnah could have acquired a lot more land for Muslims than he did.

where did u get that from? arent u glad u got something...how can u be ungrateful and say 'we could have had more'?

i wonder how much land khomenei cud have gotten if he was jinnah? :rolleyes:

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AOA.

Me - British Pakistani shia Syed of Mohajir descent.

Couple of points:

First, Qaid-e-Azam was NOT born into a shia family, he became shia later in life.

I can't remember what sect his family belonged to but it was definitely not shia.

Was he a great leader?

HELL, YES HE WAS!!!

Under the circumstances he worked a miracle given the opposition of the ruling British and the majority Indians.

Did he do it for some kind of ego or power trip?

He knew he was going to die soon after the creation of Pakistan so I doubt his ego or any lust for power ever came into his thoughts.

Second, turning to the population of muslims in the subcontinent.

There is, I think, confusion galore on this matter.

The commonly heard claim that there are more muslims in India than any other state, except Indonesia (?) is well known.

Certainly India claims to have more muslims that Pakistan or Bangladesh.

If you look at the figures however this claim is either false or the figures are wrong, big time!

I am not talking about the figures already quoted which are simply wrong.

The following figures are taken from these sites:

http://www.bartleby.com/151/ aka World Factbook.

You can also go to the CIA World Factbook at:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

( I think this is the source for the first site because the profiles are identical)

The population of Pakistan is approx 150 million, of which approx 97% are muslim.

The poulation of India is approx 1 billion (1000,000,000) of which, OFFICIALLY approx 12% are muslim making a muslim population of approx 120 million.

Already you can see the discrepancy.

Anyway to go on, the population of Bangladesh is approx 138 million of which approx 83% are muslim.

This makes a grand total, assuming the figure for India is correct, :huh: , of approx 380 million muslims.

Now the interesting thing about the population of muslims is that I have looked at the figure on and off over a period of years, out of curiosity, and it seems that the number of muslims even a decade or more ago was approx 120 million!

IF the number if muslims is indeed greater than those in Pakistan then there should be at least 150 million muslims in India.

I would hazard a totally personal guess and say that the figure could well be around the 200 million mark and this would aslo make the muslim population similar to that in Indonesia.

This would make a total population somewhere between 410 million and 460 million muslims.

A ration of 2 to 1 in favour of hindus.

Look more closely into the matter and you wil see that there are only officially approx 23 million christians in India - I have a feeling that the figure may be much higher.

The so called "untouchable" cast, aka harijans (I think!) comprises a large part of the population of India and they are badly discriminated against by the higher cast hindus.

The significance of this is that it reduces the overall percentage of hindus which belong to the higher casts - how this would be reflected politically vis-a-vis the muslim-BJP_type_hindu divide I am not sure so this is just an interesting bit of info.

You may well say, so what?

I would say that it should be more like WHAT???!!!!

It doesn't require much thought to see that such a large number of muslims would cause a serious headache for any anti-muslim government/ party/group in India, the home of hinduism.

Am I being a bit of a conspiracy theorist in saying that one way to keep the muslims of India down and unempowered is to show them how few in number they really are and that they could not possibly have any meaningful clout in a country dominated by hindus?

Decide for yourself.

In conclusion:

If India had not been divided and the muslims comprised about half the population, the hindus might just have had a rather tougher time trying to keep the muslims quiet.

So was the creation of Pakistan a mistake?

Bearing the above in mind you can argue it both ways.

If India had not been divided it is quite likely that there would have been a serious civil war and, most probably, a division would still have occurred.

The other scenario would be the fragmentation, into a large number of much smaller states, of a country which historically never existed as a single entity called India until the British conquered and united it.

How would the muslims have fared?

Perhaps better - one against two are odds that the muslims of India today would, I believe, happily take and then proceed to "stick it all the way" to the anti-muslim hindu element.

And heck, the odds may even have been better than one against two, but we will never know.

Edited by Contra

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AOA.

Me - British Pakistani shia Syed of Mohajir descent.

Couple of points:

First, Qaid-e-Azam was NOT born into a shia family, he became shia later in life.

I can't remember what sect his family belonged to but it was definitely not shia.

Aslamo 3alikum,

He belonged to the Khoja Jama'at.

His family was originally from Gujrat (India) but they were settled in Bombay (now Mumbai) like most other Khojas.

Wa'Salam

Ali

Edited by Peer Syed Sahib

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AOA.

Thanks for the info.

Are khojas shia? I am not really familiar with this group.

The book in which I read about the Qaid, a long time ago, stated he had converted to shiaism lduring the latter part of his life.

Regards

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AOA.

Thanks for the info.

Are khojas shia? I am not really familiar with this group.

The book in which I read about the Qaid, a long time ago, stated he had converted to shiaism lduring the latter part of his life.

Regards

Khojas are divided in 2 main groups

12er shias

and

Ismailies [6 imamies]

Quaid A Azam was born in a Shia family

Edited by GHULAAM E ABBAS

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AOA.

Thanks for the info.

I am going to have to differ with you however.

The Qaid was born int0 the Ismaili branch of the Khojas - I say this based on what I read in a book, something to which I have already alluded.

The book was not a religious tome, rather it was a book about the history, land and people of of Pakistan with no sectarian axe to grind.

Though I could not remember which sect he was born into I DO remember that it was NOT shia and that he became shia later. :)

Maybe I can track down the book and get more info but until then we may have to agree to disagree.

Regards

Edited by Contra

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Imam Khomeini said Jinnah could have acquired a lot more land for Muslims than he did.

where did u get that from? arent u glad u got something...how can u be ungrateful and say 'we could have had more'?

i wonder how much land khomenei cud have gotten if he was jinnah? :rolleyes:

Well....This is debateble

What if India was not partioned into Pakistan and Bangladesh.Wouldnt Muslim have more lands??

Just a thought.

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Well....This is debateble

What if India was not partioned into Pakistan and Bangladesh.Wouldnt Muslim have more lands??

Just a thought.

Yeah and that under a Hindu goverment. Had we not aquired our own land, we would have been at the hands of the Hindus prejudice, just look at the Gujrat Masacare.

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My question was only to Br Ex-Muslim since he said something about Aga khoemeni. Just wanted to check if he even understand what he is quoting

But In anycase, Please dont think I am Pro/Against India/Pak.

I am just wondering how you can say you (or more accurately) Muslims got land when the land was yours to begin with.

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I am just wondering how you can say you (or more accurately) Muslims got land when the land was yours to begin with.

?

Can you elaborate a little more on this

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I am just wondering how you can say you (or more accurately) Muslims got land when the land was yours to begin with.

?

Can you elaborate a little more on this

I meant that When Pakistan was created, the muslims who had homes in India were chased out and limited to restricted area/places for eg. Karachi and also Bangladesh(before the partion).

I believe Muslim might have lost more land than they gained by creations of Pakistan

As for the Muslim mascarre of Gujrat,it is comparable to Shia Maascare by the Wahhabis in Pakistan. All done by Fanatics and not common decent folk.

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Imam Khomeini said Jinnah could have acquired a lot more land for Muslims than he did.

where did u get that from? arent u glad u got something...how can u be ungrateful and say 'we could have had more'?

i wonder how much land khomenei cud have gotten if he was jinnah? :rolleyes:

Well....This is debateble

What if India was not partioned into Pakistan and Bangladesh.Wouldnt Muslim have more lands??

Just a thought.

Hindus being the majority i wud think muslims wud not have any land....but anything can happen.

Dont u think getting ur own country is a great accomplishment itself? But some people are saying otherwise...which confuses me.

Edited by Ex-Muslim

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Hindus being the majority i wud think muslims wud not have any land....but anything can happen.

In the majority certainly but the numbers were not overwhelmingly in favour of the hindus as you will see if you read my earlier post in this thread.

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I am just wondering how you can say you (or more accurately) Muslims got land when the land was yours to begin with.

?

Can you elaborate a little more on this

I meant that When Pakistan was created, the muslims who had homes in India were chased out and limited to restricted area/places for eg. Karachi and also Bangladesh(before the partion).

I believe Muslim might have lost more land than they gained by creations of Pakistan

As for the Muslim mascarre of Gujrat,it is comparable to Shia Maascare by the Wahhabis in Pakistan. All done by Fanatics and not common decent folk.

That's not right, People migrated to all over Pakistan not just to Karachi, but since Karachi was the port city and the biggest one as well so more immigrants came here. The only difference was that people who migrated to Karachi, kept their 'Indian' identity i.e calling themselves mahajir (refugee) from Lucknow, Delhi, Madras, Amroha etc.

The Muslims who migrated to Punjab, interior Sindh, just got mixed up with the residents of those places [a good example would be of Nawaz Shareef].

many people who migrated to Bangladesh also tried to keep their separate identity but were kicked out in 1971 :blink:

As for Gujrat, Ayodhia massacre.. You can't compare it to shia-killings in Pakistan..

Thousands were killed in just few days, and I think if you would compare the total number, the ration must be like 1:20 or like that

Anyways, both are sad countries when it comes to extremism.

Wa'Salam

Ali

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Thousands were killed in just few days, and I think if you would compare the total number, the ration must be like 1:20 or like that

If we add how many are getting killed in Kashmir on a daily basis, the ratio would be like 1:a large number. Anyway there is a difference between getting killed by a bullet and being burnt alive along with your family. Both result in death but later is far more painful. Few fanatics couldn't have killed so many people unless they were supported by government, police and majority. IN Pakistan, I believe government supported sipah-e-sahaba only when Zia-ul-Haq and probably Nawaz Sharif were in power.

In Pakistan, most sunnis are not like wahabis, I pray to God they don't turn into wahabis. But in India, even Indian muslims hate pakistanis so much, they treat pakistanis so bad. I can't imagine what Hindus would do.

Khdua Hafiz

Edited by Syeda 82

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