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Zain

Jinnah biggest blunder to create Pakistan

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(salam)

Atleast Jinnah admitted creating Pakistan was a blunder before dying.

Some recalled that on his death bed Jinnah had regretted the formation of Pakistan and called it 'the greatest blunder of my life.' Pakistani morale on the home front began to fall.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/may/03spec.htm

"I acted according to my best judgment but the way things have shaped since then has made me realise that this was perhaps the greatest blunder of my political life.

http://www.globalwebpost.com/farooqm/writi.../india_wins.htm

Apparently, this was lost sight of in the first few months after his death. In his last words Jinnah admitted that he committed a “blunder” by creating Pakistan.

http://www.satribune.com/archives/jul06_12...n_chowdhuri.htm

Edited by zain1

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dude really i wanna know y do u hate Pakistan so much???

Who says I hate Pakistan? :)

Edited by zain1

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Words like Jinnah, the best, and you are lying... will tend to appear!! lol

hmm actually he is the best leader a nation could have...if u think otherwise plz do tell me y u think that?id really like 2 know...

Few individuals significantly alter the course of history.

Fewer still modify the map of the world.

Hardly anyone can be credited with creating a nation-state.

Mohammad Ali Jinnah did all three.

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Assalam-o-alaikum my brothers and sisters. I have been reading shiachat for quiet a long time but I never became a member, but after reading this I couldn't stop my self. So here is some ''fundamentalist pakistani'' stuff.

First of all, Quaid-e-Azam has been dead for so long, the only thing we can do now is to drag him out from his grave and punch on his face, I think that will really really solve all the problems.

Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) once said, that only those have the right for amar bil marof and nahi anil munkir, who are pious themselves. Why in the name of God are all hyderabadis busy in pointing out the ''bad'' in Pakistan and Pakistanis if they are not saints themselves. Let me tell you some stories. Once a sunni hyderabadi girl met me in college and she was on and on how non relegious Pakistanis are. And after few days, a shia hyderabadi girl who also wears hijab, came college with a black net dress on. She had white complexion and you can understand how a girl with white complexion and a black net dress will look, so what was the point of hijab. Was she not equal to a non hijab wearing Pakistani. The company in which I work, is owned by a Pakistani, and the hyderabadi here hate Pakistan and Pakistanis so much, they are always busy in it. For them, Quetta incident was a big deal but what happened in Gujrat????????????????????? I live in Chicago too, and I bet you are one of those hyderabadis who just think that going to hussaini make you a good muslim. My supervisor is a hyderabadi, and oh my God, his behavior is so insulting, and also I have never seen a woman doing ghebat the way he does. I have never seen a woman back biting about others the way he does, yet he is sooooooooo religious that he is always declaring to the whole world ''main roza hoon main roza hoon''.

Pakistan is the only muslim country other than Iran whose chief of army, navy and air force has been many shias. I will like to name them, but of course they were modern, so it's really not important what their sect was. My point is I will really see how long will it take for indians to have some shia at some such important posts.

And for those afghan sisters who are bathed in the hatred of Pakistan and Pakistanis, well few centuries ago there was no country named Afghanistan, it was all part of Iran. May be whole Afghanistan, central Asian countries should be given to Iran, and half of Iraq too, since there was no country named Iraq before British invasion. May be we should give half of Iraq to Turkey and the other half to Iran. That will be justice. You really really believe that if India would have been your neighbour than none of this what happened to Afghanistan would have happened, I really wonder how a person in his/her sences can think like that. Still a lot of wheat is smuggled from Pakistan to India and Afghanistan, and Pakistani govt. has to beg for wheat to sick Americans.

And for that persian guy who is so so mad why urdu and farsi are in same forum, well look at the vocabulary of urdu. And I bet after Iran Pakistan will be the only country where you can find a quiet good number of persian speaking people.

I am very angry right now, so my hands are shaking.

But in the end I will like to say why Arabs and Iranians so quiet, whenever somone critisizes Pakistan and Pakistanis. I have seen and I will my self too, teach a lesson to someone who will bark against Arabs and Iranians, but they are always quiet.

Aur yeah Pakistanyoon kay liyay, kya koi hindustani apnay mulk kay khilaf itna kuch sun kar chup rahey ga, magar app loog itnay bey gharit hain kay bay gharatoon ko apki bay ghairatey per sharam ai.

Khuda haifz.

May Allah show us all the right path.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

hmm actually he is the best leader a nation could have...if u think otherwise plz do tell me y u think that?id really like 2 know...

You really think so? I can name at least a 100 leaders that I'd pick over Jinnah.

Few individuals significantly alter the course of history.

Hitler altered the course of history too so what's your point? It's about altering the course of history FOR THE BETTER which many people would argue (and rightfully so) Jinnah didn't.

Fewer still modify the map of the world.

On the contrary, many people have done that it has happened quite a few times in this century by people who were more well known and more respected than Jinnah.

Hardly anyone can be credited with creating a nation-state.

Don't forget the Zionists who created Israel. And though you and others may hate hearing this, Israel and Pakistan are the only two nations created on the basis of faith.

Edited by Ali786

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Well I am still very angry so I guess you will have to listen more.

Do you anti-Pakistani people really believe that khuda na khwasta if there is no Pakistan all the problems of Inidan muslims and Afghans will be solved. Why do you think that and how, please increase my knowledge. Also ask other neighbours of India how peacefully they are living my Afghan sisters. One Pakistani coulmnist once wrote, may Allah make USA neighbour of India, may be than they will understand. I know now that zair guy will make fun of me and all that stuff. But still it's a sin to break somone's heart. And love of country is juzway iman, it's a hadith. Rasul Allah was also weeping when he had to left makkah. So don't call me Pakistani fundamentalist, come in my shoes and feel yourself.

I think zain 1 you are enough grown up to forget the hatred been taught to you if you were raised in India, but if you are American born than I know what ''American born relegious hyderabadis'' are like, I see them in Hussaini a lot.''

May Allah show us the right path, and forgive our sins those which we commited knowingly and those which we commited unknowingly.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Bro/Sis muslim then shia then pakistani welcome to Shiachat :) Glad to see a fellow Chicagoan here.

I am Pakistani also and I love my country but I do not hesitate to admit its faults and shortcomings. The fact is, Pakistan was founded haphazardly (even Imam Khomeini said so) by less than noble people and has since been overrun by dictators and plagued with corruption. This pipe dream of Pakistan as some glorious Islamic nation where everyone lives in peace and harmony is just that. I agree that biased Indians use this sometimes (all the while ignoring the same problems existing their country) to disparage us but it makes us look worse when we respond by pretending these problems simply don't exist.

I believe our problems will exist as long as we continue to have the stigma of our hypocritical founding founders (Jinnah and Iqbal) attached to us. We should disown them and work towards building an educated, tolerant, and truely Islamic society that will serve as a model for others.

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Salam Alaikum,

Bro Zain 1...u left shiachat...didn't u?

And the article which you posted abt globalwebpost.com...here is what it says..(I had the time to read IT...and I think you should have read it before you post wrong links and accuse and slander pioneers of Pakistan..)

On the issue of electing a new president, Maulana Azad became aware of some differences of opinion in the "inner circles of the Congress High Command." [p. 161] Apparently, Sardar Patel and his supporters wanted him to be the president. After carefully considering various aspects, Maulana came to the conclusion that he had been president for long enough and did not permit others to propose his name. Gandhi also concurred with his decision. The next decision he had to make was the choice of a successor. His decision was in favor of Jawaharlal Nehru, his long time colleague and partner-in-struggle in Congress. His suggested choice prevailed, especially with the blessing from Gandhi. However, this he regretted later as "perhaps the greatest blunder of my political life."

"I acted according to my best judgment but the way things have shaped since then has made me realise that this was perhaps the greatest blunder of my political life. I have regretted no action of mine so much as the decision to withdraw from the Presidentship of the Congress at this critical juncture. It was a mistake which I can describe in Gandhiji's words as one of HIMALAYAN DIMENSION." [p. 162]

It was all about Maulana Azad leaving Congress..

And bro Ali786..no offence..but if Quaid e Azam had not created Pakistan...Indian Muslims would have been prey to the sikhs and Hindu mascots...just like in Kashmir..Atleast now we have a state where we are not scared to go out and meet a Hindu who would shoot us in no second...Each and every country has its problems which are solved not by blaming the country but by trying to help and put in efforts..

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Imam Khomeini said Jinnah could have acquired a lot more land for Muslims than he did.

now we have a state where we are not scared to go out and meet a Hindu who would shoot us in no second...

Yes, now we only have to be scared of Muslims who would shoot us in no second.

Edited by Ali786

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hmm actually he is the best leader a nation could have...if u think otherwise plz do tell me y u think that?id really like 2 know...

Few individuals significantly alter the course of history.

Fewer still modify the map of the world.

Hardly anyone can be credited with creating a nation-state.

Mohammad Ali Jinnah did all three.

Very true,

Jinnah was a very far sighted person and was a genius, influenced by Allamah Iqbal (who was also hailed by Ayatollah Khamanie), Jinnah knew the importance and the significance of seperate Muslim state and the role of this country in the future.

Today..

Pakistan is the only country with nuclear status in the whole of Muslim Ummah, and is the only country in direct competition with Isreal (interestingly where both states are the only states that have been founded in the name of idealogy).

Pakistan is perceived as a greater threat to Isreal than any Arab countries as it is seen as a "lover of Arab Nation" hence why Isreal is keeping very close ties with India.

Additionally Pakistan is has the backing of economic Giant and superpower, China.

I dont understand how these bloody kachies can love their own country over Pakistan espcially after the Gujrat massacare. You are essentially supporting a non Muslim state over a Muslim state.

More to come..

Edited by malang786

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I believe our problems will exist as long as we continue to have the stigma of our hypocritical founding founders (Jinnah and Iqbal) attached to us. We should disown them and work towards building an educated, tolerant, and truely Islamic society that will serve as a model for others.

So that makes Ayatollah Khamanie hypocritial as well then, as he praised Allama Iqbal in his speech during the Allamah Iqbal conference that took place in Iran, and recently also President Khatami also used references from Allama Iqbals speech during his visit to Pakistan last year.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Imam Khamenei (ha) praised Iqbal for his poetry. The man's character is another thing altogether. I doubt if Khamenei or Khatami would say such things if they learned about what this man's character was like, like his fondness of prostitutes for instance.

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(salam) Sis muslim then shia then Pakistani! welcome, finally someone on shiachat whom I personally know. I think other people would have guessed that already since she talks a lot like me :D .

Zain1! When you were talking about leaving forum, I apologized to you, I take that apology back :angry: .

And about Quaid-e-Azam, if we consider those articles true, at least we know from his words, Quaid-e-Azam didn't make that mistake intentionally. He was sincere with Pakistan and muslims. And you know, deeds are based on intentions. It's the intentions that count. Besides, Everybody makes mistakes in their lives.

If you go to a Pakistanis' house on 22nd. Rajab to eat Niaz, but with the intention to taunt them about how Musharraf is selling Pakistan to USA, then I really don't think you are religious no matter how much you go to Hussaini. My point is, that i agree Hyderabadis and Indian muslims in general are very religious but isn't discrimination and prejudice considered wrong in Islam? DO pakistanis give too much importance to this issue and it is really not important? I think like Pakistanis are not taught about importance of hijab, indian muslims are not taught that Discrimination and prejudice are bad things and feelings of other human beings are important, even the feelings of emotional pakis.

Of course, Quaid-e-Azam was not as great as Imam Khumaini, But He was really one of the best that we had, therefore we are proud of Him.

Khuda Hafiz

Edited by Syeda 82

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Interesting article, I dont agree with everything.. but still excellent read!

The creation of Pakistan in light of Surah Al-Qadr

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

There are more Muslims living in India than the entire population of Pakistan.

So the question begs: Why was Pakistan created? Is Pakistan's existence justified?

The answer is: Yes. Pakistan's existence is not only justified, its existence is the destiny of Islam itself.

Allow me to explain.

The hand of God works in mysterious ways.

Pakistan was created on the MOST HOLY NIGHT of the Islamic calendar. Which is, the 27th of Ramadan, called the Night of Power or Laila-tul-Qadar in the Quran. This date is widely accepted to be the 27th of Ramadan

( some also say 23 or 25th, as Prophet pbuh told us look for it in the last odd nights of Ramadan)

Please take a moment to draw in this profound fact.

If you believe in God, what was God telling us by creating Pakistan on this most sacred night? Especially since God Himself has said:

============================================

1. We have indeed revealed this (Message) in the night of Power:

2. And what will explain to thee what the Night of Power is?

3. The Night of Power is better than a thousand Months.

4. Therein come down the angels and the Spirit by Allah's permission on every errand:

5. Peace!... This until the rise of Morn!

[surah 97:1-5, Al-Qadr]

============================================

The Surah presents a very curious literal interpretation when viewed in context of Pakistan's creation, of the night of the 14th of August / 27th of Ramadan.

What happened on that Night of Power?

"The Night of Power is better than a thousand Months."

Now if we look at the creation of Pakistan in the context of the above Ayah, we find that that fateful night of 14th August was indeed better than a thousand months endured by the Muslims of India, and indeed the world, up to that time. That night also represented a most fateful change of course in the very condition of the Ummah, as a state dedicated solely to the cause of Islam came into being, representing the very anti-thesis of the Zionist movement of that time.

The Ummah, which was in the throes of despair and decline, at a time when the whole world had joined forces to connive against the interests of the Muslims, trying their uttermost to perpetuate the political and cultural shackles in which they had placed the Muslims for centuries...the emergence of an solely Islamic state on a land that was as much enslaved as any other, coupled by an exodus of its Kafir inhabitants to reserve a strategically important piece of land for the service of Islam came as a stunning blow to the worldwide interest of the Zionists, who had put the Wahabis in power in Hejaz and had created Israel in Palestine.

The creation of Pakistan was also the second political prototype of the long-held Islamic contention of Islam being the foremost criteria for the definition of national polity, the first being the Islamic state of Arabia of the Prophet pbuh.

For Pakistan was not formed on any other criteria of nationhood. Not of ethnicity, not of language, not of culture. The only criteria that defined nationhood was Islam. This was the 20th century fulfillment of the prophecies of the Holy Prophet Muhammad pbuh, who had propounded that his nation was formed solely on faith and on no other criteria.

The ideology that led to the creation of the Islamic state of Arabia in the time of the Prophet pbuh had led to the creation of another Islamic state 1400 years later. No other state had ever been created thus. Thus the creation of Pakistan was not dissimilar to the creation of the Islamic state of the Prophet pbuh.

The very existence of Pakistan paved the way for the eventual revival of Islamic power. For people did once realize, that here was a state which owed its very existence to religion. Thus religion and state were for once, inextricably intertwined.

The success and viability of Pakistan was to be seen as the success and viability of Islam itself.

The thesis of Islam being the sole criteria of the definition of nationhood, could now be applied to the whole world, paving

the way for the revival of the worldwide Islamic state.

With time, Pakistan was to be Islam itself.

The example of Islamic viability that Pakistan set, was probably the most important occurrence of the latter part of human history. Pakistan represented the defining turnaround in the destiny of the worlds' Muslims. Pakistan was the divinely ordained milestone in the eventual resurgence of Islam as the defining ideology of the world.

The world was slow to realize the implications of Pakistan's existence, but today the whole world is fixated on watching Pakistan.

The political landscape of the Muslim world was transformed overnight from one of despair into one of hope. That night was indeed better than a thousand months.

"Therein come down the angels and the Spirit by Allah's permission on every errand"

Subhan Allah!

And what a glorious errand it was, that had transformed the world overnight! The political landscape of the Muslim world was transformed overnight from one of despair into one of hope, from one of helplessness to one of resolve.

" Peace!... This until the rise of Morn!"

After the dawn broke on the 14th of August, when the subcontinent learnt that Pakistan had become a reality, the plains of

Punjab and Bengal saw bloodshed of horrendous proportions. More than a million people died. Entire trainloads of refugees were massacred; there was blood everywhere. Thus was peace, or relative peace, until the morning, but only till the morning.

(one needs to read more about the history of Partition to fully comprehend the proportions of the bloodlust).

What happened 50 years later?

The state created on the Night of Power, becomes the single most powerful country in the Islamic world.

The only state in the world created in the name of God, is now the only nuclear power in the Ummah. The population of the Middle East was extremely jubilant and enthralled at this development.

What's more, it is the most advanced state in information technology in the whole of the Ummah.

Internet growth rate is more than 50% per year. 80 Percent, yes 80 Percent of Pakistan's population CURRENTLY has access to the Internet, including "officially" illiterate people. This is the highest in the ENTIRE THIRD WORLD, with 320 towns havingaccess to the Internet compared with 160 or so in India.

Pakistan has the most advanced defense industry in the whole of the Ummah, and is exporting arms and ammunitions to many countries.

Pakistan is the current undisputed leader of the Ummah. Interestingly, our Allama Iqbal is looked upon in Iran and Turkey as the greatest Muslim poet of the 20th century, and this is often mentioned by Turks and Iranians when we meet them.

All this from a state that was miraculously created in the face of the Islamophobic West which destroyed the Caliphate and created Israel, at a time when the Ummah was in the throes of despair and decline. A state whose creation was the anticlimax of the Western po

If Pakistan had not existed, the Middle East would have had no hope to have a nuclear umbrella. If Pakistan had not existed, the Middle East would not have had the hope of indigenous defense technologies. If Pakistan had not existed, the Middle East would forever be dependent upon Russia(another Islam hater) for its low grade weapons to deter Israel, which were useless as a deterrernt against Israel's nuclear weapons. If Pakistan had not existed, the Middle East would not have had access to conventional technologies currently pioneered by Pakistan(such as AWC's unique runway denial bombs lauded by Janes Defense

Journal).

The hand of God works in mysterious ways, which are not immediately apparent to us as they happen.

The power of the Ummah, that had fallen...the power that was in ENTROPY throughout the Middle East, now has a reason and a

means to surge back into SYNERGY.

Today, the whole of the Middle East looks up to Pakistan. Tomorrow, who knows where we might stand?

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I doubt if Khamenei or Khatami would say such things if they learned about what this man's character was like, like his fondness of prostitutes for instance

Can you please bring evidence regarding Iqbals fondness to prostitutes.. ?

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Imam Khomeini said Jinnah could have acquired a lot more land for Muslims than he did.

So, you think it was good to take "risk" , may be the Muslims afterwards won't even be able to have a small province.. [u have a living example of Kashmir]

As I recall, Nehru or Gandhi said:

"If we knew Jinnah would die after an year, We'd have delayed the creation of Pakistan.."

Wa'Salam

Ali

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(salam) MashahAllah very Nice post Bro malang 786! Really it is NICE to read good things about Pakistan ONCE IN A WHILE on Shiachat among so many threads filled with criticism of Pakistan.

Khuda Hafiz

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Salam Alaikum,

Imam Khomeini said Jinnah could have acquired a lot more land for Muslims than he did.

QUOTE 

now we have a state where we are not scared to go out and meet a Hindu who would shoot us in no second...

Yes, now we only have to be scared of Muslims who would shoot us in no second.

So...is that Jinnah's fault?? or is it the weakness of Muslims' characters...??

I think Pakistanis should acknowledge the fact that Jinnah got them a land to live...how ungrateful of us to say that he couldn't get more land..he did his best..was there any other leader who could have done that???

QUOTE (Ali786 @ Oct 3 2003, 03:35 PM)

Imam Khomeini said Jinnah could have acquired a lot more land for Muslims than he did.

So, you think it was good to take "risk" , may be the Muslims afterwards won't even be able to have a small province.. [u have a living example of Kashmir]

As I recall, Nehru or Gandhi said:

"If we knew Jinnah would die after an year, We'd have delayed the creation of Pakistan.."

As far as I remember it was Mountbatten...

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And yes, have to say that who lost East pakistan???

Jinnah or we, the Pakistanis??Whose fault was it??? Didn't the Muslims of Pak had weak character..??

And if Jinnah would have gotten us more land, the more we would have divided into regional entities like Sindhi, Balochi etc...LOL..

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Salam Alaycom

And very very well said Sis Muslim then Shia then PAKISTANI :)

I read that thread and also wanted to comment but since i was the only one beside i think Sis Syeda 82 who defended our dear land in the thread Pakistan --- sick nation so i decided to keep quite and let others to comment on it ans here you comes :) so once again shabash :)

And yes Jinnah is dead now i think and half a century has gone passed also ..... whats point in all this stuff.... Pakistan is a reality now ..... please Indians esp Hyderabadis and our Afghan friends try to understand this .... u people critisize the wrong ones --- nation and leaders (who were faithdul) .... criticize our corrupt leaders as we do also .... THEY ARE THE PROBLEM

Wasalam

Talib

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(salam)

Atleast Jinnah admitted creating Pakistan was a blunder before dying.

Some recalled that on his death bed Jinnah had regretted the formation of Pakistan and called it 'the greatest blunder of my life.' Pakistani morale on the home front began to fall.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/may/03spec.htm

"I acted according to my best judgment but the way things have shaped since then has made me realise that this was perhaps the greatest blunder of my political life.

http://www.globalwebpost.com/farooqm/writi.../india_wins.htm

Apparently, this was lost sight of in the first few months after his death. In his last words Jinnah admitted that he committed a “blunder” by creating Pakistan.

http://www.satribune.com/archives/jul06_12...n_chowdhuri.htm

(salam)

A bigotted Indian could have called this topic for discussion. I come from a family whose parents migrated from India to Pakistan and my Grandparents from both sides worked for the creation of a seperate Homeland for the Muslims of India. My meternal Grandfather was from Lucknow and was a Raja. I have his works and his work reflects that he was involved in the efforts long before Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah became part of Muslim League. Pakistan was not just created by Muhammed Ali Jinnah but it the efforts of a lot more people.......

Another thing that I would like to bring to the notice of all is that Muhammad Ali Jinnah was Shia Asna Ashari. Not that it matters but this I am proud that this Great man was one of the follower of Hazrat Ali (as)

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Another thing that I would like to bring to the notice of all is that Muhammad Ali Jinnah was Shia Asna Ashari. Not that it matters but this I am proud that this Great man was one of the follower of Hazrat Ali  (as)

(bismillah)

(salam)

With all due respect brother, so what if he was Shi'ah? Shahanshah-e-Iran was also a Shi'ah. Jinnah may have been born into a Shi'ah family but he was secular in his views and led a non-Islamic life in general. Hell, the man didn't even know how to pray namaaz. He had no qualms about eating pork and drinking wine. People like Jinnah are a stain on the name of Shi'aism. We need more Shi'ahs like Imam Khomeini (ra) and Shaheed Arif Husseini (ra) and less like Jinnah and Yahya Khan.

Edited by Ali786

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