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#1 Zain

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Posted 05 July 2003 - 02:24 PM

(salam)
If there is a potential girl you seem interested in for marriage. Lets say your parents found this girl for you and she is perfect. But, one thing you are not sure of is her figure. Some of you may think this is shallow but I consider this a legit question. If you are going to spend the rest of your life with this girl, don't you think it should matter (ofcourse for some guys it won't matter and for some it might)? I know other things (personality, attitude, etc.) are important, but this is a concern too. And you know that some girls are good at hiding thier secrets :!!!: .

How to solve this concern? Any comments?

(Sisters can comment too)

Edited by zain1, 05 July 2003 - 02:25 PM.


#2 Abdulhujjah

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Posted 05 July 2003 - 02:31 PM

It should matter, a women should keep a good body before pregnancy, because after pregnancy she will blow up. Looks are important (in the sense that she looks after herself) not that she is a bombshell.

The things that matter are things that the girl has ability over, but things which are pre determined should not be taken into consideration.

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Posted 05 July 2003 - 05:02 PM

It should matter, a women should keep a good body before pregnancy, because after pregnancy she will blow up. Looks are important (in the sense that she looks after herself) not that she is a bombshell.

The things that matter are things that the girl has ability over, but things which are pre determined should not be taken into consideration.


men and women should be in good shape for their spouses equally. ^_^
however.......what do u guys think of obeseity though,as some folk say it is not controllable :donno: (BTW,im not obese)

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 05:38 PM

Salaams

I don't think obesity is natural. Oprah was big, and she got healthy. Lots of people do it. It's hard, and ppl are always looking for scapegoats. Maybe some ppl have a tendency towards being overweight, but that just means u gotta work harder. I would want a wfe who was healthy. I don't mind if she's a lil on the big side, as long as it's within healthy limits. I would not want an unhealthily overweight wife, just as i would not want an unhealthily underweight wife.

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 08:46 PM

Salam,

Yes men like to have pretty women of a certain shape. But what they dont realise is that women arent made of stone, so they will not remain that shape for very long at all. Infact many will find that their shape (ie the woman's) will change from the time of proposal to the time of the actual wedding night (most girls lose weight like crazy).

Ok I know I said id leave you alone, but you have GOT to work on your tact AH. I mean REALLY, esp since you are giving talks to people of this age group.

And hasnein, are you a doctor or nutrionalist/dietician? if not please read up on the multitude of pathological/hormonal reasons of weight loss/gain.

Losing weight is not an easy feat, and it isnt something to be scoffed at either. And bloody well yes I think youre being superficial.

Answer to zain: you can ask to see her in tight clothing. But you run the risk of being booted. You weigh up your priorities.

Alternatively, you can like the rest of middle eastern/iranian men at least have a woman (your mum sister aunty) check her out at the pool or womens gathering. Women are good at picking out how a woman is hiding her "secrets". But again, girls know when they are being checked out by other women and why. And they by majority (at least to my knowledge) dont like it. And if they feel like they are being inspected like a cow for auction by your family, then yes you risk the boot.

Now i must leave this thread before I throw up.

Good luck

Edited by rafidite, 07 July 2003 - 08:51 PM.


#6 Abdulhujjah

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 08:58 PM

sis raf.

You are really pushing this, its like you got some vendetta against me, was it something ive done to you ? why do you find it necessary to pick on all my posts ? If you think guys shouldnt worry about shape, then you might as well set ur brother up with someone a little rounder, I bet he'll laugh at the suggestion. So what if I'm giving talks, what I say on the minbar is different to the way I speak here, here is my fun time, and Im serious now and then, whereas on the minbar I have to speak the words of Allah, his messenger pbuh and his immaculate household (as).

Gimme a break.

P.S I'm only respecting you, because you are a sister, if you were a brother I would've treated you like that other shameful lowlife (which I dont wish to mention by name so I dont contaminate my computer any further.)

#7 roya

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 09:13 PM

zain, ask your mom to meet her. it seems that if you are considering marrying this girl, she's going to have to meet your momma at some point. what's the problem here?

looks matter to everyone to a certain degree. If you like her enough, you won't care if she weighs more than you, live with it. women tend to store their fat more than guys. I'm sure you can live with a size 8 girl. <_<

#8 Abdulhujjah

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 09:36 PM

Whats wrong with a size 8 ?????

i thinky zainy is worried about 12+

#9 Gypsy

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 09:40 PM

(salam)
If there is a potential girl you seem interested in for marriage. Lets say your parents found this girl for you and she is perfect. But, one thing you are not sure of is her figure. Some of you may think this is shallow but I consider this a legit question. If you are going to spend the rest of your life with this girl, don't you think it should matter (ofcourse for some guys it won't matter and for some it might)? I know other things (personality, attitude, etc.) are important, but this is a concern too. And you know that some girls are good at hiding thier secrets :!!!: .

How to solve this concern? Any comments?

(Sisters can comment too)

Salam Zain
This is just a Sisterly advice, but I believe if you have found an amazing girl that is good for you then pls dont let the matter of figure, color of skin, body weight and other minor physical detail distract you. All this shouldnt be a concern. Just concentrate all your energy on her mind, heart and soul. This will last forever. Furthermore, your interest on her physically appearance wont even be an issue the day after your marriage. Trust me on this. I have just been married for a month now.

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 09:55 PM

sis raf.

You are really pushing this, its like you got some vendetta against me, was it something ive done to you ? why do you find it necessary to pick on all my posts ? If you think guys shouldnt worry about shape, then you might as well set ur brother up with someone a little rounder, I bet he'll laugh at the suggestion. So what if I'm giving talks, what I say on the minbar is different to the way I speak here, here is my fun time, and Im serious now and then, whereas on the minbar I have to speak the words of Allah, his messenger pbuh and his immaculate household (as).

Gimme a break.

P.S I'm only respecting you, because you are a sister, if you were a brother I would've treated you like that other shameful lowlife (which I dont wish to mention by name so I dont contaminate my computer any further.)

Salam,

If you think im pushing things thats fine with me. I dont need to be treated specially, and I dont feel like youre doing me any favours either. Im bringing to your attention something which Im not alone in thinking. I dont like you that much to sit behind your back and say these things without bringing it to your attention, I kinda like to keep the minute good deeds I do to myself, I dont like handing them over to you.

I would think that people of your "stature" would and should welcome criticism, and these cases arent isolated either. I think a person of your stature has to be careful of how he relaxes too. I mean you havent tried to hide who you are, and many people will knwo anyway who you are. To describe women in the manner you have isnt right. You have "on the mimbar" said things without tact too, they may have told you then, and im telling you now. If you dont want to hear it then fine. "On the mimbar" is not the only exclusive place we preach religion and akhlaq. In fact the most effective place is when we go about our everyday lives, this being part of it. We do it everyday in our behaviour and speech.

Who you are and what you stand for is really irrelevant. It only magnifies things [ALOT] when you err being in a position where people look to for advice/guidance/info. So you could be joe blow for all I care, your comments were still unacceptable. I may appear to be more hard on you, because you should really know and do/say/think better.

No its no personal vendetta, and I know how you like to think that youre the constant victim here. It was REAL and SINCERE advice. Take it however way you wish. Im no mod or have any affiliations with them, so I guess you cant throw that self righteous/no freedom of speech rap at me.

If you so choose to treat me or anyone else in the manner that you treat that person whose name you didnt wish to mention, you would only be doing yourself a disservice.

Edited by rafidite, 07 July 2003 - 10:29 PM.


#11 scarymuslimah

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 10:38 PM

Salaamun Alaikum,


Usually dont venture into the brother's venue, but how could I NOT read this thread! So, while not a brother, I will write down what I think of the topic from my own point of view as a sister who's been married for a medium period of time :)

The first consideration when someone wants to get married is, of course, the person's deen. In fact, that issue supercedes any other sort of concern if one wishes a truly Islamic marriage.

On the topic of looks, yes it's true that looks matter to some people, both males and females, but it is insignificant in light of other considerations. As for a female's "figure" I dont know what the brother meant specifically, but if he found himself not attracted to the sister in any way, then do NOT marry her. One of the worst things a brother can do in a marriage is to marry a woman thinking he can "change her" or "mold her" into his own personal fantasy image of a wife. We women aren't as pliable as one thinks, and in the long run trying to change change change and control aspects of a spouse only created pain and tension in the long run. If you want a twiggy girl, then marry a twiggy girl-- let the not so twiggy girl have a happy life as a result, instead of not "living up" to someone else's SUBJECTIVE notions of beauty.

as for obesity, yes morbid obesity is unhealthy for the most part, but the healthy range of weight is of a far wider range than what most doctors say. A 200 lb person may be healthy under some circumstances, and in others, not.

In response to the comment of women "blowing up," I have no other response aside from: that was a ridiculous thing to say. Women get pregnant, nourish a life inside their bodies for 9 months, give birth, nurse, wean their children, and sometimes have more kids in the future. Of course their bodies change, and ALHAMDULILLAH for that too! If a man finds pregnant women or post partum women's bodies to be disgusting or unattractive, perhaps he should go and re-examine his own preconceived notions of what is beautiful and where said subconscious (sp) notions of beauty sprang; either that, or decide to never have children with his wife. Attraction is important in the one sense that one shoudlnt be revolting to one another, and find each other pleasant in some form or another, but to be concerned with it too much borders on a fixation with the worldly.

Leila

#12 scarymuslimah

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 10:45 PM

oops, Salaamun Alaikum once more,

I also forgot to add, as an afterthought, that attraction isn't just one sided. Even though some may be loath to admit it, sisters also care to some degree what a potential husband looks like. However, in my experience, their "qualifications" tend to be more general and less specific (such as, please let my husband have all his TEETH!) Just remmber, that while one brother may be worrying about his fiancee's figure, she may be rejecting his offer of marriage based on a similar complaint.

Leila

#13 Lateef

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 12:11 AM

As salaamualaikum Brother Zain,

How are you doing? Inshallah all is well. Listen, I had to throw my 2 cents in. I think it is important that both women and men treat their bodies right. I don't like when people abuse themselves and there are multiple ways to do that. As a man, if you don't have a 6 pack abs by the time you are 30...guess what? You are probably going to have a gut....lol We retain are fat there. Women retain their fat in their hips...it's just going to happen.

My wife was a strong muslimah...but she was on so much medication that she gained her weight back after losing it. But you know what, I loved her exactly the same...maybe even more b/c she was trying so hard. ( I don't know why I am crying typing this...I am way too sensitive these days). It's important to recognize the soul first and the body secondary. Yes, you should have attraction, but when this world is all said and done your body here is a shell, my brother.

If she is a good woman...a good muslimah...then you will have a life long companion of Allah's ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì discretion. What I required is feistiness...a strong will for the love of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and my wife had it and she will forever be remembered for that. One thing I know...don't be trivial in love or in life...

May Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì bless you and keep you in your decisions,

Lateef

#14 scarymuslimah

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 12:32 AM

Salaamun Alaikum

Brother Lateef, you're a lot like my husband, alhamdulillah. It's nice and comforting to see there are husbands out there who can look beyond certain exterior factors. I'm a sporadic user on shiachat, somewhat new in fact, and I'm sorry to hear about your wife and will make dua for her, she sounds like she was a strong lady. What a blessing you two had each other, regardless of time span.

Brothers, really read what Lateef has to say. Yes some exterior is important, but only to a point. Allah gave us our bodies as a blessing and gift, but we must also remember that one's body isn't a static thing, it's constantly in a state of morph, whether growing up, maturing, sick, or healthy, and even dying. In April, I was blessed to be holding my grandmother's hand (non Muslim) while she passed away. In the end, we lose these bodies, but the soul is eternal and continues to preservere, and that is what counts in the end- how we have dealt with each other and valued each other's persons in life, not what they looked like in this temporary, temporal world


Leila

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 12:40 AM

If you think guys shouldnt worry about shape, then you might as well set ur brother up with someone a little rounder, I bet he'll laugh at the suggestion.

Salam,

I didnt reply to that piece of work of yours, until I had permission from my brother (to give his view).

I havent said that men should not worry about looks. As sis scarymuslimah has said its important that a couple are happy in a relationship where both accept eachothers looks, and sexual attraction is part of marital happiness. This isnt only something that men need, its something that women need too. I accepted the fact that physcial attraction/looks however is very important to most men (esp. early on), but at the same time I pointed out that it was silly (and insulting). Because body shape of most women in particular is never the same, it changes almost with her mood/stage/circumstance in life. I also find it hypocritical of men who are "rounded" themselves to expect slim wives.

Primary deciding factors on what makes a good wife are those which are found in the quran refer to 66:5 (the tafsir of which you didnt bother to translate).

As for my poor brother who has been brought into this, I am happy to say alhamudulillah I share a good relationship with him and he communicates his feelings to me in this regard, freely. Yes looks were important to him when he was younger (ie major deciding factor). But now that hes serious about marriage, he has placed the priority on akhlaq and deen. I don't really hold the responsibility of finding a wife for him, but if I were to recommend someone he would take my recommendation very seriously because he knows on what grounds I would be making that recommendation. An important decision such as marriage is not to be made on nafs alone. That is, it is not a deciding factor. I think he sees that he will have to spend the rest of his life with this girl and as he has said before he wants someone that will enhance his faith, not shake it. He prefers to marry someone he can get along with and who isnt arrogant.

I still think that he like any other person prefers to marry a person who appeals to him physically. But he has made it clear that he is looking for deen and akhlaq (and intelligence) first and foremost and as a deciding factor. My mother has suggested some good looking girls but he has questioned their deen though he knew what they looked like.

So in short, no i dont think he would laugh at a suggestion of mine.

Edited by rafidite, 08 July 2003 - 12:56 AM.


#16 jlainqatar

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 12:57 AM

Selam alaycom,

Br. Lateef, your post brought tears to my eyes. Inshalla, you will inspire more brothers to think like you.

I agree with scarymuslimah's advice. If you are not attracted to this girl or think you can change her, then don't marry her. You will most likely make both of you miserable. The stress of you being dissatisfied with her shape and her trying to please you could destroy the marriage.


Peace,
Um Ali

#17 Zain

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 02:51 AM

(salam)

The things that matter are things that the girl has ability over, but things which are pre determined should not be taken into consideration.

Thats true.

Now i must leave this thread before I throw up.

Why you throwing up?

 
zain, ask your mom to meet her. it seems that if you are considering marrying this girl, she's going to have to meet your momma at some point. what's the problem here?

I don't want my mom's opinion, I want my opinion. Women can't see what guys can see (i think the bros will agree). I want to make sure I am satisfied, not my mommy. By the way, I dont want to make it sound like I am buying a car....its just that it is the rest of my life we are talking about here.

looks matter to everyone to a certain degree. If you like her enough, you won't care if she weighs more than you, live with it. women tend to store their fat more than guys. I'm sure you can live with a size 8 girl. 

She weighs more than me...you crazy!!!! Size 8...OYE!!!

 
Whats wrong with a size 8 ?????
i thinky zainy is worried about 12+

Whats wrong with you!? I am worried about 8+ and 12+...I weigh around 135 (trying to gain).

 
This is just a Sisterly advice, but I believe if you have found an amazing girl that is good for you then pls dont let the matter of figure, color of skin, body weight and other minor physical detail distract you. All this shouldnt be a concern. Just concentrate all your energy on her mind, heart and soul. This will last forever. Furthermore, your interest on her physically appearance wont even be an issue the day after your marriage. Trust me on this.

I agree with what you are saying, but for some guys :Hijabi: physical details makes a difference.

 
Even though some may be loath to admit it, sisters also care to some degree what a potential husband looks like. However, in my experience, their "qualifications" tend to be more general and less specific (such as, please let my husband have all his TEETH!)

Sisters should have the right just as brothers to be satisfied with the person's looks. Attraction is important also, you will be seeing this person for the rest of your life.

 
My wife was a strong muslimah...but she was on so much medication that she gained her weight back after losing it. But you know what, I loved her exactly the same...maybe even more b/c she was trying so hard. ( I don't know why I am crying typing this...I am way too sensitive these days). It's important to recognize the soul first and the body secondary. Yes, you should have attraction, but when this world is all said and done your body here is a shell, my brother.

If she is a good woman...a good muslimah...then you will have a life long companion of Allah's ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì discretion. What I required is feistiness...a strong will for the love of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and my wife had it and she will forever be remembered for that. One thing I know...don't be trivial in love or in life...
May Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì bless you and keep you in your decisions,

:cry: I agree 100% with you bro Lateef. Once I am married no matter what her weight is, it will not matter to me. I was just wondering about this before getting married to the girl. Sorry to make you cry bro, thanks for your blessings and advice.


Sis rafidite and bro Abdulhujjah, can't we just get along...we are all a big family here :)

#18 Renaissance_Man

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 12:55 PM

(bismillah)

(salam)

Ask to see a photograph of her standing up.

The one look you are allowed, is that only the face or the body too?

#19 Afghan_Muslimah

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 01:09 PM

As salaamualaikum Brother Zain,

How are you doing? Inshallah all is well. Listen, I had to throw my 2 cents in. I think it is important that both women and men treat their bodies right. I don't like when people abuse themselves and there are multiple ways to do that. As a man, if you don't have a 6 pack abs by the time you are 30...guess what? You are probably going to have a gut....lol We retain are fat there. Women retain their fat in their hips...it's just going to happen.

My wife was a strong muslimah...but she was on so much medication that she gained her weight back after losing it. But you know what, I loved her exactly the same...maybe even more b/c she was trying so hard. ( I don't know why I am crying typing this...I am way too sensitive these days). It's important to recognize the soul first and the body secondary. Yes, you should have attraction, but when this world is all said and done your body here is a shell, my brother.

If she is a good woman...a good muslimah...then you will have a life long companion of Allah's ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì discretion. What I required is feistiness...a strong will for the love of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and my wife had it and she will forever be remembered for that. One thing I know...don't be trivial in love or in life...

May Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì bless you and keep you in your decisions,

Lateef

Salaam Alaikum br. lateef,

Thanks for posting your 'two cents', I always love to hear your opinion on things. Your post was beautiful and once again I pray to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì to make you stronger and strengthen your Iman after everything that happened. May Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì bless your beautiful hearted wife in the hereafter.....

( I don't know why I am crying typing this...I am way too sensitive these days).


Its perfectly normal to feel like that. Its good to let it out rather than hold it all in and if you ever need to let things out then pm me or anyone of the members here.

Masalama...

#20 Afghan_Muslimah

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 01:10 PM

Br. Zain1, its what's in the heart that counts and don't forget piety too ^_^

#21 Afghan_Muslimah

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 01:11 PM

whoops....I just realized this question was aimed to the brothers....sorry about me and my intruding self :unsure:

#22 Zain

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 01:15 PM

(salam)

The one look you are allowed, is that only the face or the body too?

The problem is that even when you see the girl in real life, she will be wearing something loose. So, even if her figure is not good, we can't tell (and we know how women are experts at hiding thier flaws).

Br. Zain1, its what's in the heart that counts and don't forget piety too 

Ofcourse, that is very important also.

whoops....I just realized this question was aimed to the brothers....sorry about me and my intruding self  :unsure:

If you check my first post, I said sisters are welcome to respond. :)

Edited by zain1, 08 July 2003 - 01:29 PM.


#23 Abdulhujjah

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 01:19 PM

Sis rafidite and bro Abdulhujjah, can't we just get along...we are all a big family here


I'm the one being antagonized, I cant offer my opinion, but I will...

To sis. Rafidite and anyone else who is judgemental:

When I look for a wife, I only look for faith everything else is superficial ask bro ya aba abdillah and sis ya imam mahdi for verification, because we have discussed this matter many a time.

My opinion about figure of a woman is based upon what the guys I know tell me. Well you see sis. Rafidite you told me not to be so black and white when I offered my opinion about women driving, now you oppose me when I give a conformists opinion.
I'd like to think that all men mainly consider religion when searching for a spouse, but the problem here is that they dont, and I was speaking on their behalf.
If your criticism was constructive I wouldnt give a hoot but youve been riding this horse long enough and your spurs have dug deep enough.
I am not anyone special, and I never consider myself to be special, Im an average joe, I speak my mind although I may be controversial, you can bring it to my attention using a PM or by being nice.

Although you have asked me to treat you like that other insubordinate wannabe ecclesiastic, I refuse to do so, because I know you wish good for me, but have a bad way of expressing it.

I'll give you some advice (and I know I should give this to myself first and foremost) I would like you to be nice and think twice about everything you are gonna write to me and about me.

N.B I would have liked to write all this to you as a Private Message, but you have disallowed anyone to PM you.

Edited by Abdulhujjah, 08 July 2003 - 01:20 PM.


#24 Afghan_Muslimah

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 01:51 PM

If you check my first post, I said sisters are welcome to respond.


Lol I didn't see that ok nvr mind dega, I'm through....

#25 Guest_rafidite_*

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Posted 08 July 2003 - 04:27 PM

Rafidite you told me not to be so black and white when I offered my opinion about women driving, now you oppose me when I give a conformists opinion.

Salam,

Who told you to conform? In any place the call has been NOT to conform. The quran (and commonsense) and ahadith have on numerous occasions mentioned that the majority "dont know" or are in the wrong, or if in doubt, avoid what the majority do. Im sure you know all that.

The black and white comment was in regards to you not seeing more than past your nose on an issue. Its been discussed enough i think in that other thread.

Youre free to offer your opinion, but you have to accept the fact that when it insults other people they will respond to your "relaxed" words. Women don't like to be spoken about in terms of "blowing up" or superficially. J was commentingthat what pasdar said inthe other thread didnt differ very much from what you said, but his manner differed. I agreed but i added that your post was in response to the threads issue, pasdars was more a response to what you and then I had posted. anyway not to sidetrack here, tact apparently is something important. Since its apparent that your intentions are in the right place it is a shame that your words misrepresent you.

I'd like to think that all men mainly consider religion when searching for a spouse, but the problem here is that they dont, and I was speaking on their behalf.


I don't understand what it was that you were trying to achieve with your post. You wanted to sound like one of the boys? Are you telling me you spoke about something you did not believe and THEN you dont want to be held accountable for it?

one would think that no matter who you are you would endevour to set the right example for people rather than going below their level to somehow communicate with them. I think you underestimate peoples capabilities.

I speak my mind although I may be controversial, you can bring it to my attention using a PM or by being nice.


controversy is good, rudeness and illthought words/views which really shouldnt be a reflection of you (and your words always are) isnt.

I'll give you some advice (and I know I should give this to myself first and foremost) I would like you to be nice and think twice about everything you are gonna write to me and about me.


ill endeveour to take it.

P.S. the criticism in the first place was not how you choose your wife, it was the words and the views you portrayed and the negative effect they may have both here and elsewhere. :)

Edited by rafidite, 08 July 2003 - 04:30 PM.




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