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Why did Uthman withold & Burn Quran from People?


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#1 Guest_SHIA_MAN_*

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 09:52 AM

Any sunnite care to answer?

#2 Aboo Fatimah

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 09:59 AM

Dumby Uthman compiled the Quran.

#3 Guest_SHIA_MAN_*

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 09:59 AM

So you say- but he kept it from people, and burned every copy he could lay his hands on- so stop avoiding the question and asnwer it.

Edited by Baatil Ka Kaatil, 09 June 2003 - 10:18 AM.


#4 Aboo Fatimah

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 10:05 AM

So you say- but he kept it from people, and burned every copy he could lay his hands on- so stop avoiding the [edited] question and asnwer it.

Not really he had to find to origanal maniscript that the people had all over the world, they were written on stones, animal skins. All of the maniscripts had to be brought to him. Why dont you study instead of talking.

Edited by Baatil Ka Kaatil, 09 June 2003 - 10:18 AM.


#5 Guest_SHIA_MAN_*

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 10:06 AM

You clearly have trouble answering the question directly dont you?

#6 Aboo Fatimah

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 10:17 AM

So you say- but he kept it from people,


Show some respect.

#7 Baatil Ka Kaatil

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 10:19 AM

Shia_man

Don't make me warn you bro.

Show some respect.

#8 Syed Asad Ali Naqvi

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 10:52 AM

Salam


I have to back Shia Man here. If you do some research, you will find that uthman did indeed burn qurans. Some were even compiled by companions of the holy prophet (pbuh+HF). And he had the people who refused to hand their qurans over beaten.


Ill find some links for you....


BTW brother Shia Man, I have asked this question a few times now and have yet to get a direct answer, even with regards to hadiths in the sahih books which mention changes in the quran.


Wa salam

#9 A'beer

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 10:52 AM

Any sunnite care to answer?

(salam)

I don't ever remember reading that he withheld the Qur'an from anyone, but after he compiled it, he ordered that the bits and pieces (lleather, rocks, wood pieces..etc,.) that were used during the prophet's time be burned only after the completion of it's compilation.

#10 Syed Asad Ali Naqvi

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 10:57 AM

Salam


here is another question.... why order those quranic verses written in the prophet's(pbuh+HF) time burnt/destroyed?

What purpose did it serve? Maybe he could have ordered for them to be collected and placed in the prophet's (pbuh+HF) mosque or in mecca. That way they would have been preserved. That would have made more sense than burning them all.


Genuine question.


Wa salam

#11 Syed Asad Ali Naqvi

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 11:02 AM

Salam


Here is a link.

http://www.faithdefe...ons/islam7.html


Have a read.



Wa salam

#12 A'beer

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 11:33 AM

(salam)

I found this on The Alim on-line, I hope this better answers your questions.


*********************************************
To Uthman belongs the honor of undertaking the measure of the recension of the Holy Quran, and uniting the Muslim community on a standard text of the Holy Quran for all times.

The Holy Quran was revealed to the Holy Prophet in parts extending over a period of twenty-three years. Whenever the Holy Prophet received a revelation, he would dictate it to some person who would record it on some piece of leather, date skin or even bones and stones. The principal scribe of the Holy Prophet was Zaid b Thabit.
Uthman also served as the scribe occasionally. Many companions committed the Holy Quran to heart and Uthman was one of them.

Many Huffuz (those who had learnt the Holy Quran by heart) died in the battle of Yamama during the caliphate of Abu Bakr. It was felt that it was necessary that the Holy Quran should be compiled in a book form for the guidance of the people. A compilation was thus prepared,
and it was called Mashaf. In the time of the caliphate of Abu Bakr this compilation was kept in the custody of Ayesha. In the time of the caliphate of Umar this compilation was kept in the custody of Hafsa, daughter of Umar. and a wife of the Holy Prophet. In the time of
Uthman, Hudhaifa who had been to different parts of the Muslim dominions came to Madina, and reported that the people of different regions had different readings of the Holy Quran. The people of Homs held that their reading of the Holy Quran was correct as they had learnt it from Miqdad an eminent companion. The men of Basra held
that their reading was correct as they had learnt it from Abu Musa Ashiari. In Kufa, the people claimed superiority for their reading as they had learnt it from Abdullah bin Masud an authority on the subject. There were thus divergent readings of the Holy Quran.
It was stressed that unless some attempt was made to unify the text, that was likely to be a cause of split among the people.

The question was considered by the Majlis-i-Shura, and it was decided that an authoritative standardized text should be compiled and no divergence should be permitted from the standard text. Uthman appointed a Committee comprising: Zaid b Thabit, Abdullah b Zubair,
Saeed b Al 'Aas , and Abdur Rahman b Al Harith. This Committee was commissioned to prepare an authorized text. Copies of the Holy Quran in use in various parts of the dominions were collected and compared with the copy in the custody of Hafsa which had been compiled in the time of Abu Bakr. The Committee worked hard. All the discrepancies were reconciled, and an authorized standard edition was prepared. Uthman checked the compilation himself and finally approved it. Copies
of this edition were prepared and supplied to all parts of the dominions. All previous copies in use in the various parts of the Muslim dominions were collected and burnt.

This was a measure of great importance and significance, and thereby Uthman did a great service to the cause of Islam. The books revealed to all previous prophets had been corrupted by the followers of the respective prophets. But for the measure undertaken by Uthman, the same fate would have befallen the Holy Quran. Uthman deserves the gratitude of the Muslims by this single service in preserving the Holy Quran in its original form free from any corruption. It is surprising that some of the critics of Uthman made this measure a matter of criticism against Uthman. They urged that the burning of the copies of the Holy Quran with a view to introducing a uniform text was a sacrilege. This criticism is entirely misconceived. The burning of the unauthorized texts could by no stretch of imagination be called a sacrilege. It was on the other hand a most pious act inasmuch as it united the Muslim community on an authoritative and standard text for all times.

#13 Syed Asad Ali Naqvi

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 12:27 PM

Salam

i do understand what was achieved by uthman "standardizing" the quran. but the question remains, why burn the original texts? Surely there could be no inconsistancies with them as they were written during the time of the holy prophet(pbuh+HF). And the loss of original writings is great.

Also, the holy prophet (pbuh+HF) did say that there are many ways to read the quran.


So what about the hadiths in bukhari that talk about missing verses and ayats?


Wa salam

#14 Socrates

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 12:45 PM

Salam

i do understand what was achieved by uthman "standardizing" the quran. but the question remains, why burn the original texts? Surely there could be no inconsistancies with them as they were written during the time of the holy prophet(pbuh+HF). And the loss of original writings is great.

Also, the holy prophet (pbuh+HF) did say that there are many ways to read the quran.


So what about the hadiths in bukhari that talk about missing verses and ayats?


Wa salam

the original tablets could have been preserved in a quran museum - further proof of an unchanged Quran

I guess the Arabs really were dumb :!!!:

(i have a feeling this thread is going to be hijacked :P)

#15 Aboo Fatimah

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 12:50 PM

Rasool Alayhi Wa Salaam didnt allow these tablets to be created for a certian ammount of time. Quran was only to be taught verbally for a long period of time.

#16 Syed Asad Ali Naqvi

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 01:14 PM

Rasool Alayhi Wa Salaam didnt allow these tablets to be created for a certian ammount of time. Quran was only to be taught verbally for a long period of time.

Salam


Do you have references? Or can you tell me where you got this from?

Did it apply to writing on leaves/cloths etc?

And what about the hadiths where the prophet(pbuh+HF) selects the person who can write the best to write the quranic verses?


Wa salam

#17 Ruh.Mujarad

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 02:09 PM

(bismillah)

(salam)

Whoever burns the quran would be burnt in HELL !!!!!!!!!!! :shaytan:

YOUTH OF ALI............. PLZ RESPECT ARABS, CAUSE THEIR ARE ARABS HERE........INSULTING ARABS INCLUDES INSULTING HIZBOLLAH......SAYED HASSAN....SAYED HAKIM....SAYED SADR.....ALL THE ULEMA..., the Prophet pbuh and Ahlul bayt (as),
ur supposed to be an islamic student, u don't look like one, u don't act like one and u won't be one !!!!

(salam)

#18 Socrates

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 02:21 PM

(bismillah)

(salam)

Whoever burns the quran would be burnt in HELL !!!!!!!!!!! :shaytan:

YOUTH OF ALI............. PLZ RESPECT ARABS, CAUSE THEIR ARE ARABS HERE........INSULTING ARABS INCLUDES INSULTING HIZBOLLAH......SAYED HASSAN....SAYED HAKIM....SAYED SADR.....ALL THE ULEMA..., the Prophet pbuh and Ahlul bayt (as),
ur supposed to be an islamic student, u don't look like one, u don't act like one and u won't be one !!!!

(salam)

I meant the dumb arabs sorry no offence meant

no hard feelings

#19 samrqandi

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Posted 09 June 2003 - 02:42 PM

(salam)

THE MUSHAF OF 'UTHMAN


During the time of 'Uthman differences in reading the Qur'an became obvious, and after consultation with the Companions, 'Uthman had a standard copy prepared from the suhuf of Abu Bakr that were kept with Hafsa at that time.

The following is the report transmitted in the Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to 'Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthmfin, 'O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an), as Jews and the Christians did before'. So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, 'Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you'. Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair, Sa'id bin Al-'As and 'Abdur Rahman bin Hari-bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, 'In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish as the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue'. They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Zaid bin Thabit added, 'A verse from Sura al-Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari'. (That verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their convenant xwith Allah' (33: 23). [Bukhari, VI, No. 510]

The following events led to the preparation of the mushaf of 'Uthman:

Disputes had arisen among the Muslims about the correct manner of reciting the Qur'an.
'Uthman borrowed the suhuf, which were kept with Hafsa.
'Uthman ordered four Companions, among them Zaid bin Thabit, to rewrite the script in perfect copies.
'Uthman sent these copies to the main centres of the Muslims to replace other materials that were in circulation.



Chronology of the Written Text


Around 610 Muhammad's Prophethood commences. 1st revelation in cave on Mount Hira Transmitted orally, later in written form.
610-32
Muhammad in Makka and Madina. Continious revelation on numerous occasions Transmitted orally after memorisation by many, and writing down of revelation by various companions upon the direct instruction of the Prophet himself.
632
Prophets death.
Last revelation few days before this.
Compelete revelation left behind both in the memories of various companions as well as on various writing materials.
At the death of the Prophet, complete revelation left behind.
632-34
Abu Bakrs caliphate

633
During the battle of Yamama several companions who knew the Quran by heart were killed. Abu Bakr instructs Zaid b. Thabit to prepare a single copy of the complete revelation. Zaid b. Thabit brings together all the revelation into the suhuf from both oral as well as written sources demanding two witnesses for each piece. The Suhuf remain with Abu Bakr.
During the 1st/2nd year after the Prophets death the entire revelation was copied onto sheets (suhuf).
634-44
Umar's Caliphate.
The suhuf remain with Umar.
644-56
Uthmans Caliphate.
The suhuf remain with Hafsa bint Umar.
653
Campaign against Armenia and Azerbaidjan. Serious differences arose among muslims about the correct recitation of the Quran. Uthman instructs Zaid together with three other sahaba to prepare copies from the suhuf kept with Hafsa. Zaid and three Companions prepare a number of fresh copies from the suhuf. These copies are sent to the various muslim regions to replace other material in circulation. Suhuf returned to Hafsa. ‘Uthman also keeps one copy (mushaf).
Several copies of the entire revelation available through out the muslim lands.



What the Prophet left to the Muslims


The revelation, as left by the Prophet, was available both orally and written on various materials. Its internal order was known to the Muslims and strictly observed by them.

Abu Bakr collected these loose materials and had their contents written on to sheets (suhuf).



The Difference between Abu Bakr's and 'Uthman's Collection
Abu Bakr had made one single copy from the various verbal and written material. This copy was later kept by 'Umar and then by his daughter Hafsa.

'Uthman had many copies prepared from this copy and sent them to various places in the Muslim world, while the original suhuf were returned to Hafsa and remained with her until her death. Later, Marwan b. Hakam (d. 65/684), according to a report in Ibn Abi Dawud, collected it from her heirs and had it destroyed, presumably fearing it might become the cause for new disputes. 'Uthman also kept one of the copies for himself. This version of the text, also known as 'Mushaf 'Uthman in fact constitutes the ijma'(consensus) of the sahaba, all of whom agreed that it contained what Muhammad had brought as revelation from Allah. [According to Ibn Abi Dawud (117-8) eleven changes wcre madu under al-Hajjaj, among them e.g. 5:48 'shari'atan wa minhajan' into 'shir'atan wa minhajan'; 12:45 'ana atikum bi-ta'wilihi' into and unabbi'ukum bi ta'wilihi. These are again according to Ibn Abi Dawud mistakes which were made in the preparation of Uthmans copy (pp. 37-49). The first version of 12:45 e.g. was the reading of 'Ubay (ibid. p. 138) and Ibn Masud (ibid. p. 39).]

The wide distribution of this text and its undisputed authority can also be deduced from the reports on the battle of Siffin (A.H. 37) 27 years after the death of the Prophet, and five years after 'Uthman's copies were distributed, Mu'awiya's troops fixed sheets from the Qur'an on their spears to interrupt the battle. [See Suyuti, History of the Caliphs. transl. H. S. Jarrett. Baptist Mission Presss Calcutta. 1881, p. 177.] However nobody accused anyone else of using a 'partisan' version of the text, which would have made a splendid accusation against the enemy.



(salam)

#20 Baatil Ka Kaatil

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Posted 10 June 2003 - 06:37 AM

Shia_man

First warning.

Two more and your out.

#21 Agha Malang

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Posted 10 June 2003 - 06:42 AM

Sadly Uthman did burn manuscripts of the Qur'an, not stones as Ibn Salafiyya would have us believe, man you need to do some homework! Taken from www.answering-ansar.org


Ahl’ul Sunnah belief that by setting fire to the Qur’an Uthman made a major contribution towards the Deen

Sources

Sahih Bukhari, Vol.6, hadith number 510

Al Bidayah wa al Nihaya, Volume 6 page 217 “Dhikr Uthman”

Al Sawaiq al Muhriqa page 68 “Khilafath Uthman”

Riyadh al Nadira Volume 3 page 127 “Dhikr Khilafath Uthman”

Mishkat al Masabih Volume 1 page 175 “Fadhail Qur’an”

Tafseer Qurtubi Voulme 1 page 53

Tafseer al Itqan page 74 Part 18

Tafseer Rul al Ma’ani, Volume 1 page 23

Tafseer Gharab al Qur’an Volume 1 page 27

Al Maudhooath Volume 2 page 423

Taufa Ithna Ashari page 321 “Muthain Uthman” Part 5

Tahseer al Usul Volume 2 page 314 “Bab Jama al Qur’an”

Tareekh Khamees Volume 2 page 273 “Khilafath Uthman”

Tareekh Asim Kufi page 147 “Dhikr Khilafath”

Rauzathul Ahbab Volume 2 page 229

Taufa Tadhreeya page 55


Let us begin with Sahih Bukhari, Vol.6, #510

"Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to ‘Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur’an, so he said to ‘Uthman, ‘O chief of the Believers! Set this people right before they differ about the Book (Qur’an), as the Jews and the Christians did before’. Then ‘Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, ‘Send us the manuscripts of the Qur’an so that we may copy the Qur’anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you. Hafsah sent it to ‘Uthman. ‘Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Abdullah bin az-Zubair, Sa’id bin Al-’As and Abdur Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. ‘Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, ‘In case you disagree with Zayd bin Thabit on any point in the Qur’an, then write it in the dialect of the Quraish, as the Qur’an was revealed in their tongue’. They did so, and when they had written many copies, ‘Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsah. ‘Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur’anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt”

Is this respect for the Word of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì? In the same way that Muslims hearts are set ablaze when they see images of Hindus setting the Qur’an on fire, there is no doubt that the Muslims of that time were just as angered when Uthman set fire to the Qur’an. To those Pakistani Nasibi groups such as Sipaa-e-Sahaba who often allege that the Shi’a ascribe to Tahreef and burn the Qur’an in private, we suggest that they look carefully at this reference. These groups are even responsible for inciting sectarian hatred, by falsely alleging that the Christians have set fire to the Qur’an so that they can terrorise the minority Pakistani Christian community. What these Nasibi Mullah’s fail to point out to their followers is that your great Khalifa had no qualms about setting fire to pages of the Qur’an, and set out a campaign of collating copies and lighting them.


The Salaf madhab deems setting fire to the Qur’an to be a ‘virtue’ of Uthman



We read in Al Sawaiq al Muhriqa page 68 “Khilafath Uthman”:

Amongst the objections raised against Uthman is one that he set fire to books that included the Qur’an. Our reply to this is that Uthman’s burning these Qur’an is just one virtue that can be counted amongst many of Uthman’s virtues.

Our reply to these Nasibi who loudly proclaim that the Shi’a ascribe tahreef to the Qur’an that they should clean their own house first. You are the adherents of those Salaf Imams that deem their khalifas act of burning the Qur’an to be one his virtues.


The people were outraged by Uthman’s campaign of Qur’an burning and this was one factor that led to them killing him


We read in al Bidaya wa al Nihaya Volume 6 page 217 “Dhikr Uthman”

“Uthman introduced the Qur’an of his preference and then set fire to different versions that people had in their possessions”.

We read in Tareekh Asim Kufi:

“When the Egyptians surrounded Uthman’s home, he asked them ‘On what grounds do you dislike me?’ They said ‘It is on account of this fact, Rasulullah (s) expelled Hakim bin Aas from Madina and sent him in the direction of Taif, you violated the order of Rasulullah (s) and brought him back to Madina. And the other thing is you collated copies the Qur’an and then set them on fire”.

These references make it clear that opposition to Uthman by the Egyptians was nothing to do with the workings of Ibn Saba, rather they were outraged by the fact Uthman had set fire to the Qur’an. This action so outraged the Muslims that they deemed it as grounds to kill him. An individual that is killed on account of his blatant disrespect of the Word of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì cannot be regarded as a martyr.


The Salaf madhab deems it permissible to set fire to the Qur’an as this is the Sunnah of the Uthman


As evidence we shall cite the following texts:



Fathul Bari Volume 9 page 20

Sharh Nawawi Volume 2 page 363

Haseeya Sahih al Bukhari Part 6 Dhikr Qur’an Mushaf

Tafseer Qurtubi Volume 1 page 54

Al Itqan page 203 part 72


We read in Fathul Bari:

“Ibn Bathal stated that the traditions wherein Uthman burnt the Qur'an proves that it is permissible to set fire to books that contain the name of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì within them. The setting on fire is respect and Abdul Razzaq copied the comments of Ahl’ul Sunnah that Allamah Tus would set on fire documents that would have the words ‘bismillah’ on them and Imam of Ahl’ul Sunnah Ardh would set fire to papers that contained the words bismillah”

Haseeya Sahih al Bukhari

With regards to Uthman’s setting fire to the Qur’an some have concluded that that it is permissible to set fore to any document that’s contents included references to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

Sharh Nawawi:

If the situation arises and there is a page containing reference to Allah, then it can be set alight since Uthman and the Sahaba set the Qur’an on fire”.

Al Itqan:

“It is permissible to set ablaze pages containing the Qur’an since Uthman set on fire manuscripts that contained verses of the Qur’an”

It is indeed amazing that in this day and age these Nasibi claim that that setting the Qur’an on fire merits the death penalty whilst they are the followers of an Imam who set scores of Qur’anic manuscripts alight! Rather than condemn Uthman, these Nasibi praise his Qur’an burning exercise and deem his actions a precedent by which his followers can also do the same!


Ahl’ul Sunnah’s appraisal of the Qur’an burning Uthman is tantamount to Kufr


Kirmani Sharh Bukhari Volume 18 page 9

Tafseer Qurtubi Volume 1 page 54

Tafseer Arab al Qur’an Volume 1 page 27

Tafseer Burhan Zurkushee Volume 1 page 477

Lughath al Hadith page 58

Kuruth al Ainain page 273


We read in Tafseer Arab al Qur’an

“Zaid bin Thabit narrates, after Uthman set fire to the Quran people said “He did a good thing, by Allah he did a good thing”.

We read in Kirmani Sharh Bukhari Volume 18 page 9

“Many benefits were borne out of Uthman’s setting fire to the Qur’an, it ensured that no differences occurred in the Ummah. Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì shall grant Uthman a high reward on account of his burning the Qur’an”.

We read in Lughut al Hadith:

“To set fire to the Qur’an does not breach rules of etiquette, Uthman had no bad intention when he burnt the Qur’anic manuscripts, but it was a good act for which he shall be rewarded highly”.


The Sahaba condemned Uthman and labelled him as ‘Huraaq al Mushaf’


We read in Tafseer al Qurtubi Volume 1 page 54:

“When the people began to oppose Uthman’s corrupt policies and voice their objections, and it was said to the people ‘Be careful in regards to Uthman, fear Allah do not call Uthman ‘Huraaq al Mushaf’


Ayesha said kill ‘Huraaq al Mushaf’


Kirmani Sharh Bukhari Volume 18 page 9 it is stated clearly:

“Ayesha was opposed to Uthman’s burning of the Qur’an and she said kill this ‘Huraaq al Mushaf’ (one who burns the Qur’an)”.


Some Ahl’ul Sunnah have issued fatwas that it is disrespect to burn the Qur’an

Mulla ‘Ali Qari states in Mirqaat Sharh Mishkat Volume 5 page 29 Bab Fadhail ai Qur’an:

“Some Sunni Ulema have stated that to wash [the Qur’an], or throw into a cave or bury it in mud is a better option than burning it, as this act constitutes disrespect”.

We read in Tafseer al Itqan page 203 part 74:

“In his teachings Qadhi Husayn stated confidently that it is not permissible to burn the Qur’an, since the act of burning contradicts manners and etiquette”.

We appeal to those with open minds to contemplate the seriousness of Uthman’s actions. To discard, shred and burn anything of respect is extremely disrespectful, if for example I was to say ‘I shall set fire to this Maulana’s beard’ such a comment would be disrespectful, it is indeed unfortunate that Uthman’s gave less resoect to the Word of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì than the Ahl’ul Sunnah do to a Maulana’s beard. These Nasibi claim that the Shi’a are kaafir because they disrespect the Sahaba, and yet a personality that disrespects the Qur’an by burning is elevated in their madhab to the rank of a rightly guided khalifa.


Fatwa of Ahl’ul Sunnah – one who disrespects the Qur’an is a kaafir


Qadhi Iyad in ash Shifa page 441 (English translation by Aisha Bewley) states:

“Know that anyone who treats the Qur’an or a copy of the Qur’an or any part of it flippantly, or curses it or denies it, even to the extent of a letter or an ayat of it, or call any or all of it a lie or calls anything that it clearly states, or any of its judgements or reports, a lie or affirms anything it denies or denies anything it affirms with full knowledge of that or doubts any of it, he is an unbeliever by the consensus of the people of knowledge”.

We have proven from the texts of Ahl’ul Sunnah that one who disrespects the Qur’an is a kaafir, the Sunni Ulema have themselves acknowledged that burning the Qur’an constitutes disrespect. With this in mind the Ahl’ul Sunnah should be more honest and decide on what their views should be about Huraaq al Quran, Uthman ibn al Affan. By burning the Qur’an Uthman disrespected the Word if Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì an Hadhrath Ayesha deemed such a man to be a kaafir.


Uthman shall be called to account on the Day of Judgement for the sin of burning the Qur’an


We read in Ahl’ul Sunnah leading work Kanz al Ummal Volume 6 page 46 hadith number 820:

“Ans bin Malik narrates that Rasulullah said on the Day of Judgement three things shall complaint before Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì: (1) The Qu’ran (2) The Mosque (3) The family of the Prophet. The Qur’an shall state ‘Allah the people set fire to me. The mosque shall state ‘I was left is a state of disrepair’. The family of the Prophet shall state ‘O Allah, we were expelled from our homes, terrorised and killed’.

#22 Ruh.Mujarad

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Posted 10 June 2003 - 08:35 AM

(bismillah)

(salam)

I meant the dumb arabs sorry no offence meant

no hard feelings


No prob. bro., im with u on that, i admit that alot of the arabs are dumb, especially the presidents, kings, princes, Lions ( no offence to Syria ), etc......

( The syrian president is Hafiz al asad, asad means lion in arabic ), lol.

(salam)

#23 Guest_Shia by nature_*

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 01:34 PM

(bismillah) (salam)
Ibn Sallafiyah:
That red dude in your tag line... is he your leader? I mean is that Ibn Wahab??
Ali

#24 Aboo Fatimah

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 02:31 PM

How can you burn a rock back than, its common sense.

#25 Signore

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 10:20 AM

Any sunnite care to answer?

Well researched article on the subject :
Is the Qur'an Pure?
Why did Muhammad's close companions write unique versions of the Qur'an?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Why were these unique versions
of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?

When Muhammad died in 632 CE, the Qur’an had not been recorded and collected into a book. Instead, Muslims memorized large portions of the Qur'an. This was especially true of people who knew Muhammad in person. The Qur’an means to recite. It is possible that some of the verses had been recorded on bones, rocks, or hides before Muhammad died. Regardless, it didn’t take long for the early Muslims to decide that they needed to have the Qur’an collected into a book.

The original Qur’an was completed by 634 CE. It is important to understand that a political process is what produced the Qur’an. In 633 CE, a military battle caused 700 Muslims to be killed. A close friend of Muhammad (named Salim) that could recite a large portion of the Qur’an was killed. What would happen if all the close followers of Muhammad were killed? Early Muslims wanted to maintain the purity of the Qur’an as Muhammad had spoken it.

So the original Qur’an of 634 CE was created during the political reign of Abu Bakr. This original Qur’an came to be known as the Hafsah codex (about 10 years later when Hafsah began to maintain it). However, this most important original manuscript of the Qur’an was destroyed by Muslim leaders in 667 CE. (Hafsah was one of Muhammad's wives. She maintained the original Qur'an until her death in 667 CE. Muslim leaders wanted to destroy the original Qur'an before Hafsah died. But she refused to hand over the codex for burning. She was successful until her death [Refer to Al-Masahif 24] It is most important to ask, "Why did Hafsah not wish to have this most important original manuscript of the Qur'an to be burnt?").

Based on Muslim sources alone, it appears that the Hafsah codex was one of the last Qur’ans to be willingly destroyed by Muslims. Since the original Qur’an was not accepted, what happened to cause such a drastic change that required the original Qur’an to be destroyed? Why wasn’t the Hafsah codex maintained since it was created (in 634 CE) within two years after Muhammad died (in 632 CE)?

To begin, an excellent procedure was in place during the collection of the original Qur’an. Abu Bakr ordered that the Qur’an could only include words that were vouched for by the testimony of two men. The earliest version of the Qur'an would have been most fresh in the minds of Muhammad's followers in 634 CE. Is it any wonder why Hafsah refused to release the original manuscript?

The history of how the Qur’an came to be recorded comes from reliable Muslim source materials. These are called the Hadith. Problems for the Qur’an began to occur during the reign of the 3rd political leader of Islam, whose name is Uthman (644 TO 656 CE). It appears that as the Islamic faith spread with military conquest across a large area, the soldiers were reading different versions of the Qur’an. These men wondered, "Is the Qur’an truly as pure as those close to Muhammad believed and taught?"

The 2nd most trusted Hadith is called Sahih Bukhari. In Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510, the story about Muslim soldiers arguing about different versions of the Qur’an reads as follows: [Search on the referenced site to find the number "510" if you want to verify the written literature].

"Hudhaifa was afraid of the different recitations of the Qur'an, so he asked 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Qur’an as Jews and the Christians did before."

In response to the request, the Caliph Uthman sent a message to Hafsah since she had the most important original manuscript sheets collected about 634 CE. We find written:

"Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsah sent copies to Uthman.

Caliph Uthman had men who knew the Qur’an to assemble it again. We find written:

Uthman then ordered four men to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. After this had been done, the Hafsah codex was returned to her. "Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsah."

Having obtained this new version, Uthman ordered all other Qur’ans to be destroyed by fire. We find written:

Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt.

This means that drastic changes occurred. After all, "Why were the other copies and fragments ordered to be burnt?" The answer is found in the original statement: "Hudhaifa was afraid of the different recitations of the Qur'an"

Hudhaifa did not want different versions of the Qur'an. To Hudhaifa, unity of the Qur'an meant unity of all Muslims. If Muslims troops were not united, Islam would crumble.

Since all other copies of the Qur’an were ordered to be burned, what was wrong with them? Is the Qur’an pure as believed by modern day Muslims? Since the decision to burn all other Qur’ans was politically motivated, the Qur’an of today reflects the political whims of early Muslim political leaders, not the prophet Muhammad. Questions like this will never be answered. But it is certain that the Qur’an of today is not the original Qur’an recorded only 2 years after Muhammad died. It is certain that the Hafsah codex would have been the most accurate and original Qur’an of all time. But Muslim political leaders made sure that it was destroyed. So what actually happened in the early years of Islam?

Evidence of Multiple Qur'anic Versions

Muslim source materials report that at least four different versions of the Qur’an existed before the political order was given to have them burned. (Refer to "Al-Tamhid 2, 247).

The four versions were written by people who knew Muhammad in person. Each person created their unique version of the Qur’an. Based on Muslims sources, the differences were serious enough to cause Muslims to be divided. The Islamic source "K. al Masahif" reports differences so serious as to cause one Muslim group to call another group heretics:

During the reign of `Uthman, teachers were teaching this or that reading to their students. When the students met and disagreed about the reading, they reported the differences to their teachings. They would defend their readings, condemning the others as heretical.'[Abu Bakr `Abdullah b. abi Da'ud, "K. al Masahif]

So a political decision was made to have only one Qur’an. This did not go over well with the original people who created their unique version of the Qur’an. Who were these chosen people?

Muslim source materials reveal some of these select people who are known to have created their unique version of the Qur'an. (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 150). [Search on the referenced site to find the number "150" if you want to verify the written literature].

I heard the Prophet saying, "Learn the recitation of Qur'an from four persons: (1)Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud, (2)Salim (who was killed in the 633 CE battle), the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa, (3)Ubayy B. Ka'ab and (4)Muadh bin Jabal."

So a few select people close to Muhammad thought they knew the Qur’an and collected their personal version. These versions of the Qur’an became widely distributed and used. This is why Muslim soldiers were arguing and calling one another heretics.

After the "official" Qur’an was released and the order was given to burn all other versions, some very bad feelings came out. The following information from Muslim sources is probably the most important information you can learn about people who actually knew Muhammad in person. Let’s begin with Mas’ud, who was asked to burn his personal version of the Qur’an.

"How can you order me to recite the reading of Zaid, when I recited from the very mouth of the Prophet some seventy Surahs?" "Am I," asks Abdullah, "to abandon what I acquired from the very lips of the Prophet?" (Masahif" by Ibn abi Dawood, 824-897 AD, pp. 12, 14).

Would Mas’ud accept the Qur’an of today as being pure since he refused to destroy his unique version? Since Mas’ud did not want to have his unique version of the Qur’an destroyed, it is doubtful that Mas’ud would honestly answer that the Qur’an is pure. It is important to ask, "Why did Mas’ud refuse to give in and destroy his version of the Qur’an?"

Mas'ud was a close companion and personal servant of Muhammad. The prophet Muhammad taught the Qur'an to Mas’ud in person. Due to his close relationship with Muhammad, Mas'ud would have had confidence that he was qualified to create his unique version of the Qur'an.

Mas'ud, moved to Kufa, Iraq where he completed his unique version of the Qur’an (commonly called the Kufan Codex). The unique Qur’an created by Mas’ud was completed years after the most important original manuscript (634 CE) that Hafsah kept until she died in 667 CE. In addition, the Qur'an version created by Mas'ud did not have chapters 1, 113, and 114 that are in the "official" Qur'an of today. Is the Qur’an truly pure as believed by Muslims today?

Another unique Qur’an was created by Ubayy B. Ka'ab. He was a close companion of Muhammad and served as a secretary to Muhammad. Ubayy could recite much of the Qur’an, which he had learned from the prophet Muhammad. Scholars have found that Ubayy's version differed from the "official" Qur'an with two additional chapters (entitled: Surat Al-Khal and Surat Al-Afd). Since Ubayy was taught the Qur'an by the prophet Muhammad, why doesn't the "official" Qur'an contain the two additional chapters?

Ubayy died during the reign of Umar, which was before the "official" Qur'an was created by Uthman. Therefore, Ubayy did not have to witness that his version of the Qur'an was burned by Uthman's order. Since Ubayy created a unique version of the Qur'an and had learned from the mouth of the prophet Muhammad, would he have agreed with Mas’ud by refusing to give in and destroy his version of the Qur’an?"

Due to Uthman’s decision to create an "official" version of the Qur'an, Ubayy's version of the Qur’an was destroyed. It is important to ask, "Is the Qur'an pure?"

Now consider the original Qur’an called the Hafsah Codex. It was destroyed by Muslims leaders immediately after Hafsah died. It is most important to ask, "Why did Hafsah not wish to have this most important original manuscript of the Qur'an to be burnt?"

The "official" Qur’an version of today comes from Zaid ibn Thabit, who was the youngest writing member. Zaid, being very young, outlived the older people who had spent more time with Muhammad. However, in the end it was Zaid's version of the Qur'an that was selected by Uthman for the "official" Qur'an version.

Muslims who had been close to Muhammad became righteously angry when Uthman insisted that only one version of the Qur’an be used. Islamic sources show that the purity of the Qur’an from the days of Muhammad appears to have been compromised. If no variants existed, then no burning party would have been held.

Muslims believe that seven versions of the Qur'an exist but that only Uthman’s Qur’an is correct. So Muslims disregard the "official" book burning party cited in Muslim source materials. However, it takes "blind faith" to believe and accept this viewpoint.

If Muhammad could consistently foretell the future, then the Qur’an could be regarded as coming from God. However, this has not been demonstrated. The politically motivated book burning party of early Muslim leaders confirms the Qur’an is from a false Gabriel.



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