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  1. Ishmael Or Isaac Sacrifice?

    Once again, you think you are such a great wit, that things go apparently over people's heads...Alas, no one can be a telepathist. Well, let's see...A Moslem is the Westernized spelling (from mispronunciation)...A Westerner's perception of a "Muslim"...While a Muslim, is the more accurate phonetic spelling...And the politically correct spelling and perception. Now what you really meant in your own mind Is really anyone's guess, as you seem to be a pundit of wit in your own mind...But you didn't seem to catch the Muslim / Mohammedan bit, which is less implicit... Anyway, if you felt so honoured that a Muslim gave you a copy of the Qur'an...The next question is...Did you subsequently READ it at all...Because if you had, then you wouldn't be on any Islamic website challenging or questioning some of its verses and making comparisons with it to the Bible...Which you implicitly have in just this very thread alone...What this indicates is that you either didn't READ IT...Or read very little...Or just took a cursory glance at it. Whichever it may be, you wouldn't have been here, trying to re-interpret its verses when you know NO ARABIC. Even if you did actually read some of it, you didn't really read the Qur'an...You READ A TRANSLATION OF IT...And that is most certainly NOT the same thing. It is apparent that your responses are really social exchanges that are no longer connected with the actual topic of this thread...When you and Placid were on topic, you were both outmatched and outclassed. So all you are left with is offering homilies...So far, Placid has been smart enough to stay away...Unless you and he are really one and the same individual ...(Which is also possible)... Please do not add any further insults to intelligence...And exit with whatever debater's dignity you have left.
  2. Ishmael Or Isaac Sacrifice?

    It wasn't Cat Stevens was it (?)...It it was, then he was right. So what happened (?) You say you were handed a copy of the Qur'an...And then...(?) P.S. -- I suppose this constitutes as going over my head too...This obviously means yours truly isn't a "real Muslim"...But then, where exactly does that leave you (?) ...For not following a "real Muslim's" advice...
  3. Ishmael Or Isaac Sacrifice?

    I thought Clapton was God...(?) If your Muslim friend was any real "friend", he would have advised you to stay away from Islamic websites and handed you a copy of the Qur'an, instead...And invited and chaperoned you to real time, up-close-and-personal Muslim communities...Where one can get the smell and taste of Islam...Just like any type of exotic cuisine...One can't expect to go into a website and just view the menu inside the virtual world to get the REAL essence of that cuisine...One has to actually try it in the real world. In the virtual world of websites, all you will get are critiques...Not reality. However, may I add that you have been here at SC for years now...And you haven't yet learnt to stay away...Seek and you shall find. But in your particular case, the following might be even more applicable: When you were a child, you thought and acted as a child. But when you grew up, you gave up childish things...If or when you ever do cross that threshold into Islam, you will have given up childish things... ...That your "Muslim" friend is the Moslem, and people like yours truly are Muslim...(?) Or vice versa...(?) I suppose I should be gratified that you didn't state the difference between Muslim and Mohammedan...
  4. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    Wa Alaykum As Salaam... There is absolutely no denying all that you have stated above...In fact, understated...Regarding the conflicts and bloodshed of the standard Islamic world. Also, everyone focuses on the tyranny and cruelty of the Umayyads toward the Hashimites and their partisans (shia), but don't forget that it was nearly EVERYONE that was subjugated by the Umayyad conquest as well. Nonetheless, it pales in comparison with the staggering numbers of the MILLIONS put to death by Occidental Christianity (I always emphasize the occidentalism)...Mashriqi (Eastern) Christianity of the Miaphysite (i.e. Monophysite) churches were far less horrific. The only exception being the Ghassanid dynasty of Sham, but they became cruel and oppressive as a result of them becoming satraps of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) empire... Bloodshed continued IN SPITE of divinely inspired leadership in the Muslim world...Take the temporal (secular) and theocratic leadership of Ali b. Abi Talib. When the divinely inspired leader was finally given temporal (secular) and theocratic leadership, did the bloodshed cease (??) NO WAY. There were those who vehemently opposed the divinely inspired leader and wouldn't give up until he was assassinated. And it didn't stop there. Some among the Ummah didn't stop until virtually ALL of the Hashimites were wiped out... Food for thought...If the doctrine of the second coming of Christ were to actually occur, and he turns up in his original Syro-Palestinian form (speaking Arabic instead of its predecessor Aramaic), do you think that the Christian world (especially the West) would accept him (?) He would probably be considered the anti-christ by the Western-Eurocentric world...As they wouldn't accept him in his original form, but would expect a Scandinavian looking Messiah...The point being that humanity doesn't really seem to know what it wants in the form of guidance or a guide...All that they seem to know is that they want what they perceive is the right guidance or guide. In other words, they don't really want to believe in God, but they want to believe in their interpretation of God. You are correct, the Qur'an cannot be blamed for causing misguidance and divisions...The combined temporal & theocratic office of the Caliphate and the supporting Ulama were responsible for all of that within the Islamic Ummah, through institutions such as ahadith (narrations)...Which is the standard Islamic counterpart of the New Testament of Christianity. Islam is a discipline, and the Qur'an is the manual or guidebook of that discipline. It has to be applied to be successful. If a medical student or law student train in their respective chosen professions, but then at whatever point, drop out and abandon pursuing it, who is to blame (??) Not the professions of medicine or law...But those that had professed to pursue it. Those who have been privileged to be born in the Islamic faith can be likened to those who are born into affluency...They have been fed with a silver spoon, but once they have reached maturity and inherited this fortune, they must stand on their own two feet and make the most of their good fortune and not squander, waste, or ignore its benefits. Ultimately, no divine communication or divinely inspired leader can compel humankind to the path of relative peace and stability, they can only inspire them...Humanity must WANT to accomplish this for themselves.
  5. Ishmael Or Isaac Sacrifice?

    Hameedeh may have been reacting to my reponses to you, but that still doesn't mean that I was addressing YOU...Here and now...But you couldn't resist adding your 2 cents worth-less, could you...LOL No, I don't equate crudeness with torture and murder, but your Christian forefathers certainly did... In case you are unaware, in pre-American colonial parlance, the term "WEST" directly referred to EUROPE (and EURASIA)...And in contemporary global media, it still does...And the term "Western" is not just the geographical hemisphere or where cowboys hangout, but a cultural, sociological appellation to describe a culture and society...Or did you forget that from your days in high school...(?) Aw, c'mon in Canada high school goes up to the 13th grade...You guys have an extra year to complete high school curriculum...LOL ...NO. It did not "fly over my head"...Don't flatter yourself, you are not the great wit that you may think you are... I knew exactly what you meant...The "suicide bombers" of the "Middle East"...Especially, the female ones...I don't know if some of the others here on SC have figured out what you and Placid are really doing here...A couple of latent pro-Euro-Christian proselytizing trolls who have disguised themselves as goodwill ambassadors of inter-faith dialogue representing "Christianity"...Only Placid is a LOT better at concealing it than you...LOL ..."Out on probation..." Now that is the very first wittly thing you have actually said in this entire thread... Actually, NO...As I was rather active in FOUR other discussion forums here on SC...Events Archive, Shia/Sunni, Qur'an-Dua-Hadith, and General Off-Topic Discussion...It might be difficult for someone like you to comprehend, but I actually have multi-dimensional capacity...Similar to Niels Bohr's 11-dimension quantum theory...LOL
  6. Ishmael Or Isaac Sacrifice?

    With all due respect...My post wasn't meant for you...It was a response to Hameedeh...I had a strong hunch that you would be the first one to respond with one of your witless witticisms...What's the matter...Couldn't find anyone else to kick your a-s-s in a debate (??) Besides, crudeness in this particular context is a matter of opinion or perspective, in Hameedeh's case... What makes you think that some Christians in recent times are far more peaceable (??) The Serbians in their treatment of Bosnian Muslims (??) Or the U.S. strikes on Afghanistan and Iraq (??) Or perhaps serial killer CHRISTIAN PASTOR Dennis Rader (BTK)...(??)...Or Norwegian gunman Anders Behring Breivik (??)...Let's not forget the good Reverend Jim Jones of the Guyana tragedy of 1978... And in answer to your question: I would say that they believed that they were true Christians [More specifically the Eurocentric / Western interpretation of Christianity]...Otherwise, it is unlikely that they could have carried out such horrors of brutality and carnage. I would say that those Christians would have been perfect specimens of research by social psychologists Solomon Asch, Muzafer Sherif, and especially Stanley Milgram. Asch studied conformity...Factors influencing conformity such as concurrent behaviour, attitudes, or beliefs in response to real (or even imagined) group pressure. Muzafer Sherif helped clarify the conditions that produce intergroup conflict and overcoming this same type of conflict. As for Milgram, he studied the social factor of obedience : The performance of an action in response to the direct orders of an authority figure... I had no clue you strapped yourself with a bomb (??) What other fetishes do you have (??) ...
  7. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    Some copy-pasted abstracts: Christianity became legal in the Roman Empire by the Imperial Edict in 315 CE of Constantine I (the Great), pagan temples were continually destroyed by christian mobs. The pagan priests were killed in many cases without trials. In between the 4th and 6th century, starting at 315 CE we find that thousands of pagan believers were slain by the hands of these new christians. There are many examples of Temples destroyed such as the following: The Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea The Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha The Aphaka in Lebanon The Heliopolis The christian priests Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as “the temple destroyer.” To have pagan whorship became punishable by death in 356CE, decreed by the christian church. The early fourth century brings the philosopher Sopatros execution, this was demanded by the christian authorities. The christian Emperor Theodosius408-450CE went as far as to have children executed, just because they played with fragmented remains of pagan statues. Now this is according to christian chroniclers Emperor Theodosius had “followed meticulously all of the christian teachings…” A well renown female philosopher, Hypatia of Alexandria was executed by a crazed christian mob by taking shards of glass to tear at her flesh and bone, this was led by Peter a christian minister, in a church, in 415CE. In 6th century further acts agaisnt the pagans were committed by the christians as they declared pagans to be void of all rights. These acts are just the beginnings, Horrors of the Roman Catholic Church! † KJV † 'Heretic' derives from the Greek 'hairesis' proposing 'choice'. When the Roman Catholic Church replaced the Great Roman Empire as the dominate force in Europe, one's selection of spiritual sentiment and practice deemed unorthodox by the RCC would be scrutinize with utmost zeal. The notion of heresy being both a church and state offense has long-standing pagan roots. The Great Roman Empire, as a standard, thought heresy to be treason. Death was often the penalty, as Christian martyrs well knew. The word "Inquisition" in fact comes from the Roman Empire. An "inquisitio" was held, into the speculation of a heretic. Once the RCC started to take form and replace the GRE, a law was established with The Law Code of Justinian, ca. 550 (483-565 A.D.) THE CODE OF OUR LORD THE MOST SACRED EMPEROR JUSTINIAN. SECOND EDITION. BOOK 1. TITLE 1. CONCERNING THE MOST EXALTED TRINITY AND THE CATHOLIC FAITH AND PROVIDING THAT NO ONE SHALL DARE TO PUBLICLY OPPOSE THEM. 1. The Emperors Gratian, Valentinian, and Theodosius to the people of the City of Constantinople. We desire that all peoples subject to Our benign Empire shall live under the same religion that the Divine Peter, the Apostle, gave to the Romans, and which the said religion declares was introduced by himself, and which it is well known that the Pontiff Damascus, and Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic sanctity, embraced; that is to say, in accordance with the rules of apostolic discipline and the evangelical doctrine, we should believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute a single Deity, endowed with equal majesty, and united in the Holy Trinity. (1) We order all those who follow this law to assume the name of Catholic Christians, and considering others as demented and insane, We order that they shall bear the infamy of heresy; and when the Divine vengeance which they merit has been appeased, they shall afterwards be punished in accordance with Our resentment, which we have acquired from the judgment of Heaven. Dated at Thessalonica, on the third of the Kalends of March, during the Consulate of Gratian, Consul for the fifth time, and Theodosius. Source: Corpus Juris Civilis (The Civil Law, the Code of Justinian), by S.P. Scott, A.M., published by the Central Trust Company, Cincinnati, copyright 1932, Volume 12 [of 17], pages 9-12, 125. Because of copyright owner requests and laws, I am not permitted to included the whole of the text, but I urge everyone to read that doctrine in full, to understand where the foundations of the inquisitions stated. I am however allowed to post limited individual lines of the text. If, however, any seditious outbreak should be attempted, We order them to be driven outside the walls of the City, with relentless violence, and We direct that all Catholic Churches, throughout the entire world, shall be placed under the control of the orthodox bishops who have embraced the Nicene Creed. For we believe that this is for the benefit of the Holy Churches, as it was written, "The king rules with his lips," and again, "The heart of the King is in the hand of God, and it will incline to whatever side God wishes"; And with that, the stage of self righteous torment toward others was set. During the Middle Ages, the persecution and murdering of nonconformists was rife heading into the period of inquisitions dating to 1227/31 A.D. Before this most of the acts were not official church actions, but the common layman mobs would do much of the killing. This leads up to a despicable phase of the Roman Catholic Church and leading the charge in their behalf was one King Robert "The Pious" King of France, in 1022 A.D., who commanded heretics to be burned alive. Mob actions in Milan burn unrepentant heretics, over objections of a local bishop. Then came Soissons in 1114 and Cologne in 1143, where commoners inquisitions resulted in the death of heretics at the stake, when angry mobs pulled unrepentant heretics out of ecclesiastical prisons. A local priest named Peter de Bruis sermonized Rhone Valley, in the Alps. Peter refused infant baptismals and resisted reverence of the crucifixes that adorned churchs and clergy necks alike. He believed these were traditions of the Church, not found the doctrines of the Gospels. In 1140 he was killed at St. Gilles. Shoved into a blazing fire in which he was burning crucifixes. A monk simply known as Henry, launched what the church deemed extreme preaching about 1116 at Le Mans. He was known as a Petrobrusian. Ordered to discontinue by the council at Pisa in 1133. Bernard of Clairvaux was dispatched by Pope Eugenius III, with men in 1145 to withstand Henry. Henry was imprisoned by the bishop of Toulouse and never heard from again. Then Pope Lucius III in 1184, issued a bull against heretics, which would establish many of the guidelines later used in the Inquisitions. One principal was that anyone giving aid to heretics faced the same fate as the heretic. Another, that all unrepentants be handed over to governance forces for judgment and according punishment. Habitual offenders bore stiffer decrees. With these realities in mind, once the papal bull of Lucius III issued at Verona condemned all heretics, including Cathars and Waldensians the pump of 'Papal Inquisitions' was prime. Mendicant friars (monks/priest sworn to poverty who made a living by beseeching others) would become both the Inquisitors and the accused. Working for the pope and only answerable to the pope and not any local churches were the Domincans, this order was started by St. Domincan in the year 1217. And later would be joined by the Franciscans, an order started by St.Franciscan of Assisi in the year of 1209. On the other side of the stage was anyone else that didn't believe as the Pope did. Some of these orders were the Fraticelli, Waldensians, Cathar pefectis, and simple laymen as well. They had different degrees in doctrine belief and traditions, all of which were not permissible by the Papal authority. You either preached as Rome did, or face the fire in a lot of incidences. Then in 1198, comes Pope Innocent III to the theological stage. Don't let the name fool you, and remember every pope was or is 'Vicar of Christ' Which in reality means, they speak for Christ, as Christ's words on earth. Now the Catholic Encyclopedia still list Pope Innocent III as 'One of the greatest popes of the Middle Ages' and he was one of the forerunners to push this title of Vicar of Christ. In truth though vicar means (Lat. vicarius, from vice, "instead of") and Christ means, (Christos, the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word , means "anointed.) So in reality the title means 'Instead of the anointed' In 1200 hopes in the conquest and an eternal church reign of Palestine and the Holy Lands was waning fast. Pitting the enthusiasm of the crusaders against deemed heretics was inevitable. A new 'the fourth' crusade was instituted, in 1202 which recaptured Constantinople. The Pope then directed his attention against the Cathars in the Languedoc region of southern France. This bloodbath, forever known to history as the 'Albigensian Crusade,' would subsequently influence the allowance of the first Inquisition. In 1203 the Pope designated Pierre of Castelnau to preach, later joined by the Cistercian abbot of Clairvaux, Arnald-Amalric. Commissioned to terminate those who declined to excommunicate heretics, they would purge the Church from within. The bishop of Béziers was suspended in 1203 and murdered by his own congregation in 1205. In 1208 the papal legate, Peter de Castelnau, was murdered, probably by an aid of Raymond VI of Toulouse, one of the chief Albigensian nobles. The pope proclaimed (1208) the Albigensian Crusade. This Albigensian Crusade continued from 1209 to 1229, for two decades the blood would spill by the 'Holy Pontiffs' decree. Though it was launched by the pope, the killing shifted to the local secular detachments. One example is Simon de Montfort. Repression formulas on the heresy of the Cathars granted new methods. Noted above most was the dreadful day of July 22, 1209. On this day the city of Beziers was sacked, plundered and ravaged. Relentless butchering, of which it was, was once again rife, with estimations of over 20,000 inhabitants, including children, murdered by so called holy crusaders. During the attack, the Cistercian abbot Arnald-Amalric, when questioned if Catholics to should be 'liquidated' or perhaps absolved, retorted "Kill them all, for God knows His own". This is a man, commissioned by Papal authority, which is supposedly the authoritative representative of Christ on earth. The day after he wrote to Innocent III, "Nearly twenty thousand of these people were put to the sword, without regard for age or sex." Simon de Montfort play a major role in the massacre and was rewarded and selected as commander. So this is the foundations of the Roman Catholic Church from it's growth out of the Great Roman Empire. The atrocities to come, some much more horrific then the past, are noted though out the annals of time. And some are listed below. Crusaders beset Minerve in June 1210, after surrendering 140 perfecti were burned. A year later after a besiegement of one month Simon de Montfort commanded the Lavaur leaders, a brother and sister, and eighty knights murdered. Montfort reported over 400 heretics were burned to the delights of his men. Simon intentionally utilized terror tactics such as with a garrison at Bram. By order of Simon, their eyes were gouged out, excluding one man, that would have to lead them to Cabaret. At the University of Paris, in 1210, logic teacher Amalric implemented a bit of trickery, lecturing on a new age to come, one that would replace the Catholic Church. Nine unsuspecting clergy agreed with Amalric views. All nine were unceremoniously burned in the fiery flames of indignation. Extensive burnings including 400 burnt after the fall of Lavaur in 1211, and 94 burnt after the fall of Casses in the same year. Then new Pope Gregory IX instituted the Papal Inquisition in 1227 to 31. The Albigensian Crusade wiped out most of the Cathard, much work was still to be done to stomp heretics out. They were to be stalked and hunted down like animals, and then burned alive. In 1233 Pope Gregory IX appointed Stephen de Burnin legate for northern Spain and southern France. Putting ultimate responsibility on the Dominican Order to launch the Inquisition against heretics. Inquisitors were the police, judge, and jury. The accused was afforded no rights at all, trials were held in secret, the accused wasn't allowed an attorney and infact if a lawyer tried to aid them, he himself could lose his right to practice law and perhaps his right to practice life! Dominicans sects created tribunals at Albi, Cahors, and Moissac, where 210 persons were burned to death. The Inquisition having been validated at Barcelona in 1233, and in 1238 in Castille, Leon, and Navarre only helped to fuel the fire. Other horrifically gruesome instances of wholesale slaughter encompass the Count of Champagne, the King of Navarre, in 1239 with 16 bishops reigning over the burning of 183 Cathars at Montwimer (Marne), and 215 more Cathar perfecti at the Castle of Montsegur in 1244 (Know as the Massacre at Montsegur.) The list is endless, the blatant atrocities by self appointed so call holy men, will forever blot the eye of Christianity toward the reconciliation of the humanistics and pagans to the one true loving Lord Jesus Christ. And all Catholics everywhere, must make a mends by watch guarding their Church Elders and not grant them autonomous sovereign rule over anybody, including their own perishes. Up to 1248, inquisitors didn't seem to have places to hold these courts. Rather traveled the country side, executing their unquestionable judgments on the accused. In 1302 Pope Boniface VIII issued the papal bull Unum Sanctum, declaring that the pope had supreme and final authority in all matters, both civic and spiritual. Then the inquisitors were granted "houses" rightly named, "Courts of the Inquisition" Here they lived and would hold the very one sided proceedings. It is in these building where they imprisoned and tortured the condemned heretics. With this establishment put into place guidelines were set by a variety of monks as to how to conducted a proper inquisition. Bernard Gui (or Bernard Guidonis, a Dominican who spent close to a quarter-century conducting investigations is one of the most noted. It is assumed he was born in the year 1261 and entered the order around 1279 and named an inquisitor in 1307 until 1324, when he was granted Bishop statutes. Throughout that span Bernard condemned at least 930 of heresy. While Bernard Gui was Inquisitor in Toulousel 1307-1323 the medieval inquisition was well underway since the reign of Pope Gregory IX (1227-1241) 1231, with the constitution Excommunicamus of Pope Gregory IX, opened the flood gates. Gregory IX was inspired to do this for many reasons, one was because of concerns that the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II aimed to take on this effort for political gain. Then in 1252 Pope Innocent IV, appealing to the potency of the renewal of Roman Laws, officially approved the use of torture. Preceding this, the action was not in line with canonical doctrines, though widely used. The sentences for those who confessed or were found guilty were declared in a public form at end of the trial. This was the "sermo generalis" Penances might consist of a pilgrimage quest, a scourging, the wearing of a cross or a hefty fine. The sanctions in grave cases were seizure of property or imprisonment. Life imprisonment and torture was the extent of their punishment capabilities. So when the church henchmen gave a heretic over to secular authorities, it was equivalent to demanding for that persons execution. The Inquisitions principal reasoning was always to extract confessions by the accused. Bernard Gui recounts the methods used in inquiries in his book, "Inquisitorial Technique" (c.1307-1323) and "Inquisitors Manual." The manual, factually titled in Latin "Practica inquisitionis heretice pravitatis" (The Conduct of Inquiry Concerning Heretical Depravity), was completed by 1324. With five parts to the manual, the first three dealt with the actual trials. Then the 4th lists church documents, papal bulls, doctrines and decrees showing the inquisitor's authority is set by the Pope. The last part deals with what heresy was described as being in the current times. Between 1335 and 1355 Inquisitor Havel of Hradec tried over 4,400 people, condemning about 5 percent to be burned at the stake. The RCC perceived trouble to be brewing, and enacted this new form of inquisition focusing on widespread Italian and French 'spirituals'(Certain Franciscans demanding in strict observations of the poverty practices exercised by Francis of Assisi ) Then in 1312 Pope Clement V attempted to make peace by trying to make concessions but to no avail. Then the spirituals captured several convents and refused to give them back to the RCC. Then John XXII, the next pope made his stance clear. Pope John XXII demanded all to conform or reap the reward for heresy. Many refused, John XXII marked them heretical, sending the inquisitions to rain down terror upon them. With swiftness, in 1318 recalcitrant spirituals were condemned to burned alive at the stake. In the year 1366 John Wyclif steps onto the theological stage as one of the King of England's chaplains and as immensely adverse to the papal dominance in the churchly affairs in England and the world. In 1374, Wyclif made a quest to Bruges as a part of the commission designated by the king to negotiate a peace treaty with France. Upon his returning to England, he begins to preach religious reformations. He evangelized in Oxford, London, and other places against the pope's secular sovereignty. It wasn't long after (date uncertain), in a hand tract, he depicts the Pope of Rome as the anti-Christ. Of course Rome would need to react to this and Gregory XI issued a determination condemning 19 sentences from Wyclif's works as "erroneous and dangerous" to the Roman Catholic Church. Gregory commanded the archbishop to place Wyclif in prison, bound, pending the papal courts final sentencing. Wyclif's appearance before the archbishop was disrupted by the citizens of London. Never the less, all heretical points were declared just that by the theologians at Oxford. Courtenay, archbishopric of Canterbury, assembled a synod, and condemned 24 articles by Wyclif. When Courtenay tried to levy the decisions of the synod on Oxford, Wyclif got support from the faculty and students on the matter. Nonetheless, King Richard II agreed with the bishop, Wyclif was condemned, and he was discharged of all duties at Oxford. Upon this forced retirement, he headed to Lutterworth, to his private rectory, finishing his translations of the bible into English. Wyclif died on Dec 29, 1384 after setting into motion the reformations acts. His works, books, tracts and manuscripts were directed to be burnt by the Lateran ruling in 1413. At the Council of Constance he was posthumously excommunicated, his bones ordered to be dug up and burnt. Pope Alexander V issues a bull in 1409 banning evangelizing in unauthorized venues. A believer of Wyclif's teachings named Jan Hus, declined to observe the papal order and was promptly excommunicated by archbishop Zbynek but later the accusation was dismissed after Zbynek's death. Nevertheless, in 1412, the charge against Hus was resurrected. John Hus lived between 1373-1415, he was a reformer in the footsteps of John Wycliffe, and taught his sentiments in Bohemia. As Wycliffe did, John Hus denounced abuses and dishonesty in the church, contending the Holy Scriptures to be above all mankind, including the pope. Hus worked his way to the head of the University of Prague, affording himself a exceedingly influential appointment with which he could institute his beliefs, and share them with the masses. In 1414 John Hus was then beckoned to the Council of Constance, which seeks to end the Great Schism, the embarrassment of having two or three popes competing for authority and power. Also held in particular to confront Hus' arguments. Taking the words the Pope (BIG mistake on John Hus' part) for safe conduct passage, Hus agreed to attend, but he was arrested anyway and placed on trial. Of course John Hus was convicted then burned at the stake. A bit of trickery on the papal's part, spelled the demise of John Hus, but would in no way erase his memory or teachings and beliefs. John became a martyr to many of those that believed the papal institution was not in accord with Holy Scripture. Rome launch a attack against Bohemia, as it had done with the Cathars, but was driven back five different times from the region. Un-prevailing with violence, the RCC turned to negotiations, a deal was struck, which allotted the Church of Bohemian to become part of the Roman Catholic Church once again. This set wrong with many of the Bohemian Christians, and some refused to join the RCC. A sect known as Union of Brethren (Unitas Fratrum) tasted very oppressive persecution. Jerome of Prague, a critic of the "sale of papal indulgences", a good friend of Hus and a adherent of Wyclif, was condemned by the Council of Constance in 1416 and also burned alive in flames on the stake. 1431 - French peasant woman Joan of Arc is burned at Rouen as a witch. Born on January 6th in the year 1412, the youngest of five children, to Jacques and Isabelle d'Arc in the village of Domremy, in the Barrois region. When she turned 12, Joan claimed to have visions of Saints Catherine and Margaret, two Christian martyrs and of St. Michael the Archangel as well. Claiming a order from God to rid France of the English, Joan would be granted an audience of Charles of Ponthieu who would later become King Charles VII. Acquiring authorization of the RCC, this 17 year old girl was given charge of an army and at breakneck speed lifted the siege of Orléans and conquered an English army at Patay. For her loyalty and servitude, King Charles VII bestowed her noble status. She responded to a call to return to battle, in spite of foretelling her own defeat. At Compiègne on May 23, 1430 Joan was captured and sent to the English. It wouldn't seem noble for the English to admit Joan bested them on the battle fields let alone execute her for it, so they fabricated lies and had Joan tried for being a heretic by Pierre Cauchon, bishop of Beauvais, a partisan for the English cause. She was placed on trial in Rouen by the RCC clergy who sided with the English. Condemned and executed on the same day, May 30, 1431, Joan was later proclaimed pure and a saint by the same RCC. The apparitor of the archiepiscopal court, Maugier Leparmentier, was present and recorded that: The day when Joan was burned, the wood was got ready to burn her before the sermon was finished or the sentence had been pronounced. And no sooner the sentence uttered by the bishop, without any delay, she was taken to the fire, and I did not see that there was any sentence pronounced by the lay judge. But was at once taken to the fire. And in the fire she cried more than six times "Jesus," and above all with her last breath she cried in a loud voice "Jesus!" so that all present could hear her. Almost all wept with pity, and I have heard say that the ashes, after her burning, were gathered up and cast into the Seine. Usher, Jean Massieu, stated: The pious woman asked, requested, and begged me, as I was near her at her end, that I would go to the near-by church and fetch the cross to hold it raised right before her eyes until the threshold of death, that the cross with God hung upon be continually before her eyes in her lifetime. Being in the flames she ceased not until the end to proclaim and confess aloud the holy name of Jesus, imploring and invoking without cease the help of the saints in paradise. And what is more, in giving up the ghost and bowing her head, uttered to name of Jesus as a sign that she was fervent in the faith of God. By the early 15th century the Iberian Peninsula has split into various realms, Kingdoms began conducting constant hostilities toward each other and mobilizing borderline crusades. The peninsula finally unifies. The unification of the monarchy is made possible by the marriage and joint rule of Ferdinand and Isabella, whose devout Catholicism and advocating of the Inquisition shields the kingdom from the "Reformation Acts" engulfing many other realms of the RCC of Europe. In Spain, the Trastamaran Wars, a era of public discord and civil unrest was ending with the nuptials of Ferdinand and Isabella. (their true proper names were Ferran and Isabel) Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella, infanta of Castile and heir to the throne, and are married at Valladolid, seat of Castilian royalty. By 1469, Castile and Aragon now unified, became the leading power in the peninsula and with the conquest of Granada in 1492, the Reconquest was completed. And with that Ferdinand and Isabella. shaped a strong coalition with the Roman Catholic Church. Back in 1478 Ferdinand and Isabella had already constituted the Inquisition in Spain for the converting of the Jews (conversos) accused of heresy. Muslims (moriscos) were next on the agenda and it happened. The Turks in 1480 assaulted the Italian city of Otranto. Some 11,000 - 12,000 people were murdered, the remainder sold into bondage. The enemy killed every priest they could find and actually sawed the archbishop in half. In 1480 it was clear it would happen again to the Spanish Monarchy. Eventually, all people are scrutinized. The accused are condemned, sentenced, often to public penance or death, at the auto-da-fé (literally, "act of faith"). In 1483, Tomás de Torquemada (1420–1498) the infamous inquisitor, renown by the RCC for his strictness, his unwavering implements, sever sentences and rigorous censorship is granted the title of Inquisitor General for Castile and Aragon, and other realms. Torquemada becomes the key figure in forced conversion of Jews to Christianity. Cardinal Francisco Jiménez de Cisneros (1436–1517), Isabella's confessor and archbishop of Toledo leads a similar Champaign, though seemingly not as violent. The goal to purge the countryside of Jews, Muslims and heretics becomes well financed for the New World gold and other goods and would keep Spain a major Kingdom for the next 400 years. Torquemada owes his reputation for cruelty to the harsh rules of procedure that he devised for the Inquisition and to the rigor with which he had them enforced. The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. Copyright © 2003 Columbia University Press. Tomás de Torquemada born 1420, Valladolid, Castile [spain] died September 16, 1498, Ávila, Castile. First grand inquisitor in Spain, whose name has become synonymous with the Christian Inquisition's horror, religious bigotry, and cruel fanaticism. Tomas de Torquemada. Encyclopædia Britannica. Retrieved April 16, 2004, from Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service. English Catholics suffered horribly under Protestant regimes. Historian William T. Walsh writes: "In Britain, 30,000 went to the stake for witchcraft; in Protestant Germany, the figure was 100,000" (, p. 275). In Scotland, too, alleged witches were cruelly put to death. Karl Keating quotes from the : "It is well-known that belief in the justice of punishing heresy with death was so common among the 16th-century Reformers-Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and their adherents-that we may say their toleration began where their power ended" (C.E., s.v., "Inquisition," 8:35). SOURCES: (A History of the Inquisition in the Middle Ages), H.C. Lea. Vol I. Macmillan, New York. 1909. (The Medieval Inquisition), Bernard Hamilton. (Foundations of Medieval History), series ed. M.T. Clanchy. Edward Arnold, London, 1981 ("Inquisition"), Microsoft® Encarta® Online Encyclopedia 2004 http://encarta.msn.com (Inquisitorial Technique)Bernard Gui (Europe; Investigating the Inquisition.)BBC News. (CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA.) (The Columbia Encyclopedia), Sixth Edition. Copyright © 2003 Columbia University Press. (The Prosecution of Heresy: Collected Studies on the Inquisition in Early Modern Italy)John Tedeschi, Binghamton, NY: Center for Medieval and Early Renaissance Studies, 1991. (Foxes Christian Martyrs of The World);John Foxe, Newly revised and illustrated by Moody Press, Chicago, Illinois. (The Medieval Inquisition) New York: Holmes & Meier, 1981. (HISTORY of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH CHAPTER V. REFORMERS BEFORE THE REFORMATION.) § 38. Sources and Literature. (History of the Christian Church), by Philip Schaff, Volume VI. (The Inquisition), John A. O'Brien. New York: Macmillan; London: Collier Macmillan, 1973. (Inquisition) Edward Peters, New York: Free Press; London: Collier Macmillan, 1988. (Torquemada: Scourge of the Jews), Thomas Hope, George Allen and Unwin, 1939. (Flesh Inferno: Atrocities of Torquemada and the Spanish Inquisition Creation Books), Simon Whitechapel, 2003. ISBN 1840681055 (Practica Inquisitionis Heretice Pravitatis), Bernardo Gui. trans. Peter Amann, in The Medieval World and its Transformations, ed. Gerald M. Straka, Vol.II of Western Society (Joan of Arc), Stanley, Diane. New York: Morrow Junior Books, 1998. (Joan of Arc), Smith, John Holland. New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1973. (Encyclopedia of World Biography), Wickersham, John. "Charles VII." McGraw-Hill . 1978 ed. Encyclopedia Britannica (The Age of Torquemada) by John Edward Longhurst. Christianity promotes the idea that the faith was spread by selfless, righteous ''apostles'' travelling far and wide to preach and convert the ''heathen''. But nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is that Christianity was promoted through fear, torture, and death, in a series of continental inquisitions, Millions of people were tortured by Christians during the Inquisitions, first the Papal Inquisitions, from as early as the 3rd century through the 12th, and the Spanish Inquisition lasting from the 14th century to the early 19th century. Torture Methods Employed Waterboarding! (George Bush favourite) :blink: In the Inquisition, girls as young as nine and boys as young as ten were tried for witchcraft. Children much younger were tortured to extract testimony against their parents.¹ Children were then flogged while they watched their parents burn. A documented case in the Silesian town of Neisse reveals a huge oven was constructed, which over a ten year period, more than a thousand "condemned witches, some as young as two years old" were roasted alive.² Many victims were also extremely old, some in their 80's. This made no difference to the church. The christian church murdered, tortured, mutilated and destroyed millions of lives both directly through the Inquisition and indirectly through all of the wars they incited. The damage and destruction this religion has perpetrated against humanity is almost beyond comprehension. Most people aren't even aware of the facts. During the reign of the Roman Emperor Constantine (CE 306-337) the doctrines of the christian church were regarded as the foundation of law. Heretics (persons who opposed church teachings) were sought out, tortured and murdered. Heresy was an offense against the state as well as the church. For hundreds of years, civil rulers tried to stamp out all heresy. As early as CE 430, the church leaders declared heresy punishable by death. In CE 906, "The Canon Episcopi" was the first church body to expressly forbid the use of witchcraft. Before the Inquisition was fully underway, the church accepted heretics back into the fold, under terms it considered reasonable. The following is an example: For three Sundays, the heretic was stripped to the waist and whipped from the entrance of the town/village all the way to the church door. He/she was to permanently deny him/herself meat, eggs and cheese except on Easter, pentecost and xmas, when he/she is to eat of them as a sign of his/her penance. For twenty days, twice a year he/she was to avoid fish and for 3 days in each week fish, wine and oil, fasting, if his/her health would permit. He/she was to wear monastic vestments with a small cross sewn on each bosom. He/she was to hear mass daily. Seven times a day, he/she was to recite the canonical hours and in addition, at Paternoster ten times each day and twenty times each night. He/she was to observe total abstinence from sex. Every month he/she was to report to a priest who was to keep the heretic under close observation. He/she was to be segregated from the rest of the community. There is no precise date for the beginning of the Inquisition, most sources agree it manifested during the first 6 years of the reign of the catholic pope, Gregory IX, between 1227 and 1233. Pope Gregory IX who ruled from 1227-1241 is often referred to as the "Father of the Inquisition." The Inquisition was a campaign of torture, mutilation, mass murder and destruction of human life perpetrated by chistians. The church increased in power until it had total control over human life, both secular and religious. The Vatican wasn't satisfied with the progress made by regional leaders in rooting out heresy. Pope Innocent III commissioned his own inquisitors who answered directly to him. Their authority was made official in the papal bull of March 25th, 1199. Innocent declared "anyone who attempted to construe a personal view of god which conflicted with the church dogma must be burned without pity." In 1254, to ease the job of the inquisitors, Pope Innocent IV decreed that accusers could remain anonymous, preventing the victims from confronting them and defending themselves. Many churches had a chest where informants could slip written accusations against their neighbors. Three years later, he authorized and officially condoned torture as a method of extracting confessions of heresy. Inquisitors grew very rich, accepting bribes and fines from the wealthy who paid to avoid being prosecuted. The wealthy were prime targets for the church who confiscated their property, land and everything they had for generations. The Inquisition took over all of the victims' possessions upon accusation. There was very little if any chance of proving one's self innocent, so this is one way the catholic church grew very wealthy. Pope Innocent stated that since "God" punished children for the sins of their parents, they had no right to be legal heirs to the property of their parents. Unless children came forth freely to denounce their parents, they were left penniless. Inquisitors even accused the dead of heresy, in some cases, as much as seventy years after their death. They exhumed and burned the accused's bones and confiscated all property from their heirs, leaving them with nothing. The actions of the inquisitors had devestating effects on the economy that left entire communities totally impoverished while the church glutted with wealth. They also crippled the economy by holding certain professions suspect. Inquisitors believed the printed word to be a threat to the church and interfered with the communication brought about by the invention of the printing press in the 15th century. Maps, cartographers, traveling merchants and traders were all placed under intense suspicion; a threat to the church. Although the church had begun murdering people it deemed heretics in the 4th century and again in 1022 at Orléan, papal statutes of 1231 insisted heretics suffer death by fire. Burning people to death prevented spilling of blood. John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." The nazarene quote incited all of this. The Spanish Inquisition happened several centuries later right up till the 1800s, and was distinguished by its gross brutality. This device was mockingly called the "throne" (trono in Spanish), due to its resemblance to that item of furniture. The victim's ankles were placed in the stocks at the top, then he or she was left upside down until the increasing strain of that position forced a confession. ''The throne'' in use. The edge of the throne forces the victim's spine to bend backwards. In this more refined form of torture, the hot coals are in a brazier under the victim's feet. Oil is then ladled over the feet so that they roast rather than burn. This was done to keep the nerve endings intact as long as possible. SinParty of the cutting of limbs. Was this where the Sierra Leonan rebels learnt their trade? Soon after landing on the island of Hispaniola, the Spanish began their relentless search for gold. They told the New World natives that they had been living RENT FREE on the Pope's land for centuries and now it was time to collect the rent . . . with ARREARS!! Every three months, the Indians were forced to surrender a hawk's bell filled with gold dust. In return they were given a copper token stamped with the date. Those who were found without a current token had their hands amputated as an example to others. Others who resisted were fed to the savage Spanish dogs.The gold and silver was shipped back to the Vatican to fight the blessed Reformation of ''Saint'' Martin Luther. Saint Indeed. :bored: The Spanish told the New World natives that they had been living RENT FREE on the Pope's land for centuries and now they had to pay the arrears—with gold or silver!! From 1500 to 1540 at least 100 MILLION New World natives were killed by the Spanish or wiped out by diseases brought over by the Conquistadors. Other torture methods The brodequin was used to crush the legs by tightening the device by hand, or using a mallet for knocking in the wedges to smash the bones until the bone marrow spurted out. People who passed out were further condemned as the losing of consciousness to be a trick from the Devil in order to escape pain. Burning the feet. Oil, lard and grease were applied to the feet before roasting them over a fire. A screen was used to control or increase the pain as exposure to the fire was applied on and off for maximum suffering. Also, as a variation, some victims were forced to wear large leather or metal boots into which boiling water or molten lead was poured. Thousands and thousands of "heretics" were burned at the stakes throughout the duration of the Spanish Inquisition (the exact numbers are unknown). There was no such thing as an "alleged" heretic under the Inquisitions reign of terror; there were only "repentant" and "unrepentant" heretics. The Inquisitors came up with numerous gadgets to work within this restriction. They included: The Judas Chair: This was a large pyramid-shaped "seat." Accused heretics were placed on top of it, with the point inserted into their anuses or Cores, then very, very slowly lowered onto the point with ropes. The effect was to gradually stretch out the opening of choice in an extremely painful manner. The Head Vice: Pretty straightforward concept. They put your head into a specially fitted vice, and tighten it until your teeth are crushed, your bones crack and eventually your eyes pop out of their sockets. The Pear: A large bulbous gadget is inserted in the orifice of choice, whether mouth, anus or womanliness. A lever on the device then causes it to slowly expand whilst inserted. Eventually points emerge from the tips. (Apparently, internal bleeding doesn't count as "breaking the skin." The Wheel: Heretics are strapped to a big wheel, and their bones are clubbed into shards. Methods of execution Sawing: Heretics were hung upside-down and sawed apart down the middle, starting at the crotch. :shock: :shock: Disembowelment: Not the nice kind of disembowelment, where a samurai slits you wide open like a fish and you die in moments. Here, a small hole is cut in the gut, then the intestines are drawn out slowly and carefully, keeping the victim alive for as much of the process as possible. The Stake: Depending on how unrepentant a heretic might be, the process of burning at the stake could vary wildly. For instance, a fairly repentant heretic might be strangled, then burned. An entirely unrepentant heretic could be burned over the course of hours, using green wood or simply by placing them on top of hot coals and leaving them there. The last burning organized by the Inquisition was in 1834, when the Spanish Inquisition was officially abolished. But though Torquemada's legacy has been laid to rest, the Inquisition lives on. Based in Vatican City, the Holy Office of the Inquisition is still one of the most powerful branches of the Church hierarchy. In 1965, Pope Paul VI renamed the Inquisition as the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, but it was still basically the Inquisition. Pope Alexander VI (1492-1503), His orchestrations gave the New World to Spain. He was a MONSTER of INIQUITY even by the standards of his day.
  8. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    Wa Alaykum As Salaam... Finally, a breath of fresh air from a civilized responder...LOL Yeah, I guess we all get our share of yahoos in online discussions...But I think this last yahoo made almost as big a fool of himself as Rasul the Fool...I couldn't believe this last hooligan had the gall to humiliate himself by actually stating that there were no NT verses regarding Christ's purported divinity...Not even realizing how many different versions of the Judeo-Christian Bibles that have existed...LOL Returning to our discussion, you are quite right in stating that there have been false messengers/announcers/prophets in history...However, the stories regarding the apostates of the so-called Ridda Wars are most likely ALL false. The entire Ridda Wars apostasies were a post-recorded, retroactivated FICTION to justify the founding of the institution of the Caliphate after the passing of Nabih Muhammad. In the Wiladats & Wafats thread in the Prohpet Mohammed Week forum, I have covered this in more detail. As for Abdullah Al-Mahdi Billah (aka Ubayd b. Husayn az-Zaki al-Askari), his claim was not one accepted by just a few ignorant people of the Ummah of the early 10th Century CE...No siree. Literally MILLIONS accepted his claim to the doctrinal prophecy of the Awaited One or Guide... As for your statement that standard Islam has caused more bloodshed than any religion...I have to TOTALLY DISAGREE with it..Please, research the 2000 year history of Christianity...THERE IS NO COMPARISON between what EUROPEAN & EURASIAN Christianity did and standard Islam. The mass genocide Christian Spaniards committed in South America eventually decimating the Incas, Maya, etc. is HORRIFIC. The Inquisitions of Europe will literally TURN YOUR GUTS inside out when reading about them, or viewing documentaries about them. The sheer magnitude of HORRORS committed by Christian Europe is so staggering that it is mind-blowing (to put it mildly). People were burned alive in droves...Some, like Knights Templar Jacque De Molay was slow cooked over a low-burning fire...It took him almost 6 hours to die (historians estimate)...And this after being mildly tortured irregularly for nearly 7 years. There was one village in Germany in which 130 women were burnt alive at the stake in a single afternoon (accused of being witches)...And an additional 41 CHILDREN were tortured and executed...Don't forget the unspeakable horrors committed by the Christian Order of the Dragon, whose prince Vlad the Impaler (inspiration for the Count Dracula character), tortured to death tens of thousands of his own subjects--including small children. The list of HORRORS is endless in the history of European or Western Christianity...The so-called "crusades" to the Middle East were one of the most OUTRAGEOUS crimes committed by Christian Europeans. Christians (overwhelmingly European & Eurasian) should be the LAST to criticize standard Islam regarding being a religion that sheds blood, considering the horrors they have committed. Some medieval European & Eurasian Christian authorities, and the horrors committed by the Roman Catholic Papacy, almost make the Bani Umayyah (Umayyads) of standard Islamic history, come across as the International Red Cross. As for the myth of the Mahdi, it is not so much whether it violates divine laws...But that there is NO real mention of an expected or awaited one in the Qur'an. The single most significant verse regarding the Awli Al-Amri (Patrons In Command) makes absolutely NO MENTION of any concept of ghaybat (hidden). The ideological concept of an "expected one", which has developed a life of its own, especially after the Khatam Al Nabiyyeena Muhammad and the Awli Al-Amri (Commanding Patrons) seems ANTI-CLIMACTIC. As for the various interpretations of the Qur'an, Al-Lah (swt) Himself has clarified it: 3:7 He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:"and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
  9. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    Appending to the previous post : The English word prophet is derived from the Latin prophēta, which is derived from the Greek root prophḗtēs = advocate or speaker. It is a variation of phánai = speak in Koine Greek. The Arabic word naba = anouncement, annunciation, news, tidings. Hence, its direct derivative nabih = announcer, annunciator, bringer of news, bringer of tidings. Definition proph·et [ próffət ] proph·ets Plural NOUN 1. somebody who interprets divine will: somebody who claims to interpret or transmit the commands of a deity 2. somebody predicting the future: somebody who predicts the future (i.e. "prophets of economic doom") 3. advocate of something: somebody who advocates a cause or idea 4. inspired leader: somebody considered to be an inspired leader or teacher [ 12th century. Via French and Latin < Greek prophētēs "somebody who speaks beforehand" < phētēs "speaker"] Thesaurus NOUN Synonyms: clairvoyant, forecaster, fortune teller, seer, prescient, psychic, diviner, mystic, telepathist, sibyl, parapsychologist, spiritualist. *Consequently, someone who speaks beforehand is a prophesizer (or predictor).
  10. Tabernacle is greater than Kaaba

    Subhanallah...Very well stated.
  11. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    For your edification, PUNK...The FOOL who has no clue that the Arabic word NABIH (= Announcer / Annunciator) is directly derived from NABA (=Announcement / Annunciation)... Surah An-Naba (78) Bismi Allahi alrrahmani alrraheemi 1. AAamma yatasaaloona 2. AAani alnnaba-i alAAatheemi 3. Allathee hum feehi mukhtalifoona 4. Kalla sayaAAlamoona 5. Thumma kalla sayaAAlamoona 6. Alam najAAali al-arda mihadan 7. Waaljibala awtadan 8. Wakhalaqnakum azwajan 9. WajaAAalna nawmakum subatan 10. WajaAAalna allayla libasan 11. WajaAAalna alnnahara maAAashan 12. Wabanayna fawqakum sabAAan shidadan 13. WajaAAalna sirajan wahhajan 14. Waanzalna mina almuAAsirati maan thajjajan 15. Linukhrija bihi habban wanabatan 16. Wajannatin alfafan 17. Inna yawma alfasli kana meeqatan 18. Yawma yunfakhu fee alssoori fata/toona afwajan 19. Wafutihati alssamao fakanat abwaban 20. Wasuyyirati aljibalu fakanat saraban 21. Inna jahannama kanat mirsadan 22. Lilttagheena maaban 23. Labitheena feeha ahqaban 24. La yathooqoona feeha bardan wala sharaban 25. Illa hameeman waghassaqan 26. Jazaan wifaqan 27. Innahum kanoo la yarjoona hisaban 28. Wakaththaboo bi-ayatina kiththaban 29. Wakulla shay-in ahsaynahu kitaban 30. Fathooqoo falan nazeedakum illa AAathaban 31. Inna lilmuttaqeena mafazan 32. Hada-iqa waaAAnaban 33. WakawaAAiba atraban 34. Waka/san dihaqan 35. La yasmaAAoona feeha laghwan wala kiththaban 36. Jazaan min rabbika AAataan hisaban 37. Rabbi alssamawati waal-ardi wama baynahuma alrrahmani la yamlikoona minhu khitaban 38. Yawma yaqoomu alrroohu waalmala-ikatu saffan la yatakallamoona illa man athina lahu alrrahmanu waqala sawaban 39. Thalika alyawmu alhaqqu faman shaa ittakhatha ila rabbihi maaban 40. Inna antharnakum AAathaban qareeban yawma yanthuru almaro ma qaddamat yadahu wayaqoolu alkafiru ya laytanee kuntu turaban Surah 78. The Announcement 1. Concerning what are they disputing? 2. Concerning the Great News, 3. About which they cannot agree. 4. Verily, they shall soon (come to) know! 5. Verily, verily they shall soon (come to) know! 6. Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, 7. And the mountains as pegs? 8. And (have We not) created you in pairs, 9. And made your sleep for rest, 10. And made the night as a covering, 11. And made the day as a means of subsistence? 12. And (have We not) built over you the seven firmaments, 13. And placed (therein) a Light of Splendour? 14. And do We not send down from the clouds water in abundance, 15. That We may produce therewith corn and vegetables, 16. And gardens of luxurious growth? 17. Verily the Day of Sorting out is a thing appointed, 18. The Day that the Trumpet shall be sounded, and ye shall come forth in crowds; 19. And the heavens shall be opened as if there were doors, 20. And the mountains shall vanish, as if they were a mirage. 21. Truly Hell is as a place of ambush, 22. For the transgressors a place of destination: 23. They will dwell therein for ages. 24. Nothing cool shall they taste therein, nor any drink, 25. Save a boiling fluid and a fluid, dark, murky, intensely cold, 26. A fitting recompense (for them). 27. For that they used not to fear any account (for their deeds), 28. But they (impudently) treated Our Signs as false. 29. And all things have We preserved on record. 30. "So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds); for no increase shall We grant you, except in Punishment." 31. Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfilment of (the heart's) desires; 32. Gardens enclosed, and grapevines; 33. Companions of equal age; 34. And a cup full (to the brim). 35. No vanity shall they hear therein, nor Untruth:- 36. Recompense from thy Lord, a gift, (amply) sufficient, 37. (From) the Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all between, ((Allah)) Most Gracious: None shall have power to argue with Him. 38. The Day that the Spirit and the angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by ((Allah)) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right. 39. That Day will be the sure Reality: Therefore, whoso will, let him take a (straight) return to his Lord! 40. Verily, We have warned you of a Penalty near, the Day when man will see (the deeds) which his hands have sent forth, and the Unbeliever will say, "Woe unto me! Would that I were (metre) dust!" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You see a "prophet" is one that prophesizes...Or predicts future events. In the Qur'an, it is not one who prophesizes but one who ANNOUNCES...A NABIH. A prophecy is only one ASPECT of the ANNOUNCEMENT or ANNUNCIATION. In the Qur'an, there are multiple categories of announcers / annunciators that are stated: The Nabih (Announcer) who is a Nazeer (Warner)... The Nabih (Announcer) who is a Mubashshir (Bringer of Good News)... The Nabih (Announcer) who is BOTH a warner and bringer of good news... The Nabih (Announcer) who is a Rasul (Messenger) of BOTH Warnings and Good News that is VERBATIM from Al-Lah (The Divinity)... Now PUNK, should I send you a P.O. Box for you to mail me my tuition fees...(??)
  12. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    Do you have some kind of latent mental deficiency...(???) qalandar_1 was NOT initiating just a discussion requiring scrutiny of facts...PUNK...He COPY-PASTED verbatim extracts from medical doctor SHABBIR AHMED'S book KARBALA: FACT OR FICTION...Without acknowledging this fact even ONCE. What part of that did you NOT understand (???) From an Ithna Ashari perspective, what could be more of a Nasibi than Dr. Shabbir Ahmed's FABRICATIONS and DISTORTIONS of standard Islamic history...(??) Did you actually READ the contents of Dr. Shabbir Ahmed's material (??) ...The FRAUDULENT medical doctor Shabbir Ahmed claims that the Karbala tragedy, the Battle of Jamal, and the Battle of Siffin had NEVER OCCURRED (!!)...And you call me "diliusional"... I even provided a URL to an online upload of Dr. Shabbir Ahmed's entire book KARBALA: FACT OR FICTION as evidence of Dr. Ahmed's complete FRAUD...Which obviously, a MORON like you totally missed...
  13. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    I have not only read the various versions of the Bible (KJV, Wycliffe, Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Vaticanus, Gideons, NKJV, Revised Standard Version, New International Version, and the Septuagint)...But have also read the Christian "Biblical" doctrines of Monophysitism...Forget about what an ignorant FOOL like you might think you even know about Monophysitism, but I'll make it simple: It is the form of Christianity that believes that Nabih Isa (Jesus Christ) is DIVINE and not human...Consequently, there are Monophysite "Bibles" : Pesh-itta (in Syriac) of the Syriac Orthodoxy; the Egyptian Coptic Bible (in Coptic & Demotic); the Ethiopian Coptic Bible (in Ge'ez); etc., which actually contain verses in which Christ proclaims HIS OWN DIVINITY...Here is an EDUCATIONAL copy-pasted encyclopedic abstract which is a basic summarization to EDUCATE IGNORANT IMBECILES like you... [copy-paste] monophysite, in Christianity, one who believed that Jesus Christ’s nature remains altogether divine and not human even though he has taken on an earthly and human body with its cycle of birth, life, and death. The Christological position called monophysitism asserted that in the person of Jesus Christ there was only one, divine nature rather than two natures, divine and human, as asserted at the Council of Chalcedon in 451. In the development of the doctrine of the person of Christ during the 4th, 5th, and 6th centuries, several divergent traditions had arisen. Chalcedon adopted a decree declaring that Christ was to be “acknowledged in two natures, without being mixed, transmuted, divided, or separated.” This formulation was directed in part against the Nestorian doctrine—that the two natures in Christ had remained separate and that they were in effect two persons—and in part against the theologically unsophisticated position of the monk Eutyches, who had been condemned in 448 for teaching that, after the Incarnation, Christ had only one nature and that, therefore, the humanity of the incarnate Christ was not of the same substance as that of other human beings. Political and ecclesiastical rivalries as well as theology played a role in the decision of Chalcedon to depose and excommunicate the patriarch of Alexandria, Dioscorus (d. 454). The church that supported Dioscorus and insisted that his teaching was consistent with the orthodox doctrine of St. Cyril of Alexandria was labeled monophysite. The label also was attached to various theologians and groups, although some who were called monophysite, notably Severus of Antioch (d. 538), repudiated the terminology of Chalcedon as self-contradictory. Most modern scholars agree that Severus as well as Dioscorus probably diverged from what was defined as orthodoxy more in their emphasis upon the intimacy of the union between God and humanity in Christ than in any denial that the humanity of Christ and that of humankind are consubstantial. The churches that until the mid-20th century had been traditionally classified as monophysite, those of the so-called Oriental Orthodox communion, have always disputed the label, preferring the term miaphysite (from the Greek mia, “single,” and physis, “nature”) to identify their shared view that both divinity and humanity are equally present within a single nature in the person of Christ and describing their traditions as “non-Chalcedonian.” These Oriental Orthodox churches—the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria, the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, the Syriac Orthodox Partriachate of Antioch and All the East, the Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church, and the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church—have since resolved almost all of their Christological disputes with the Roman Catholic Church, the major Protestant churches, and Eastern Orthodoxy and have been generally accepted by those traditions as essentially orthodox in their doctrine of the person of Jesus Christ. There have been many Coptic versions of the Bible, including some of the earliest translations into any language. Several different versions were made in the ancient world, with different editions of the Old and New Testament in all four of the major dialects of Coptic: Bohairic (northern), Fayyumic, Sahidic (southern), Akhmimic, and Mesokemic. Biblical books were translated from the Alexandrian Greek version. The Sahidic was the leading dialect in the pre-Islamic period, after the 11th century Bohairic became dominant and only used dialect of the Coptic language. [end copy-paste] Btw, your grammar and composition is ATROCIOUS...Take my advice and read Wren & Martin's High School English Grammar and Composition...
  14. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    Get LOST PUNK...You are an insult to intelligence. You might consider getting some psycho-therapy... The material I have read in Christianity, you couldn't even pronounce...It requires at least a fundamental understanding of Koine Greek and Latin. You obviously did not go through my debate with the pro-Judeo-Christians Placid and Son of Placid in the Ishmael or Isaac thread in the Islam/Christianity/Judaism Forum... Urwah b. Zubayr and Wahb b. Munabbih (???) ROFL These are post-recorded RETROACTIVE citations with not one ounce of contemporaneous documentation...The whole Seven Fuqahah MYTH is just that. It cannot be epigraphically validated. There are literally HUNDREDS of such documentation that are ALL post-recorded, RETROACTIVATED literature...NONE from Umayyad times but ALL from Abbasid times. Anything that was documented from the supposed Rashidun Khilafah IS NOT CONTEMPORANEOUS...ALL post-recorded and then made RETROACTIVE..This is from pure forensic epigraphy and historiography. And btw, the correct English translation for the Arabic word naba = announcement (NOT prophecy). Consequently, a nabih = announcer. Prophecy is only a portion of an announcement. Learn basic Arabic, FOOL...But allow me to give you a lesson free of charge...An announcer or annunciator comes in three (3) basic categories: mubashshir (bringer of good news); nazeer (warner); rasul (messenger). Why don't you visit my Islamophile posting in the Islam/Christianity/Judaism Forum for your sorely needed edification. It is a very basic standard Islamic glossary...Even dummies like you should be able to understand it. And fyi...What I actually stated was about what the AUTHORS of the NT said about the divinity of Nabih Isa (Jesus)...FYI, the definition of a demi-god is being half-human and half-divine (as in one parent being mortal, while the other a deity). Mother Mary (Hazrat Maryam) was human...FOOL. New Testament references Humans, including the New Testament writers, calling Jesus Son of God Matthew 14:33, Matthew 27:54 Mark 1:1 , Mark 15:39 , Romans 1:4, John 1:34 , John 1:49 , John 11:27, John 20:31 , Acts 9:20 , Galatians 2:20, Hebrews 4:14 , Hebrews 6:6 , Hebrews 7:3, Hebrews 10:29 , 1 John 3:8 , 1 John 4:15, 1 John 5:1 , 1 John 5:5, 1 John 5:10 , 1 John 5:13, 1 John 5:20 , Revelation 2:18, 2 Corinthians 1:19 his (i.e. God's) son, in various forms: John 3:16, Romans 1:9, Romans 5:10, Romans 8:3, Romans 8:32, 1 Corinthians 1:9, Galatians 4:4, Galatians 4:6, 1 John 4:9, 1 John 4:10, 1 John 5:11 Attributed to Jesus himself Matthew 26:63-64 , Mark 14:61-62, Luke 22:70, John 5:25, John 10:36, John 11:4 Unclear whether attributed to Jesus himself or only a comment of the evangelist John 3:18 The devil or demons calling Jesus Son of God Matthew 4:3, Matthew 4:6 , Luke 4:3, Luke 4:9, Mark 3:11, Luke 4:41, Matthew 8:29 Jesus referred to as the Son: Matthew 11:27 , Matthew 24:36, Matthew 28:19, Luke 10:22, John 1:18 , John 3:35 , John 5:19-26 , John 6:40 , John 14:13 , John 17:1, 1 John 2:22-24 , 1 John 4:14 , 2 John 1:9 The God and Father of Jesus The New Testament also contains six references to God as "the God and Father" of Jesus. Romans 15:6 , Corinthians&verse=1:3&src=! 2 Corinthians 1:3, Corinthians&verse=11:31&src=! 2 Corinthians 11:31, Ephesians 1:3 , Peter&verse=1:3&src=! 1 Peter 1:3, Revelation 1:6 Dying only once wouldn't really apply to you...You already give the impression of being brain-dead. Like I said, GET LOST...And run along and play word games with little boys your own age... I really don't have time to waste with any more hecklers...
  15. Yes...To the first query. The chain of spiritual masters (silsila) of the Qadiriyya is given thus; Prophet Muhammad (Ibn Abdullah) Caliph Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib Imām Al-Hasan ibn ‘Alī al-Mujtabā Imām Hussein ibn ‘Alī al-Shahīd Imām ‘Alī ibn al-Ḥussein as-Sajjād (Zayn al-‘Ābidīn) Imām Muḥammad ibn ‘Alī al-Bāqir Imām Jaʿfar ibn Muhammad al-Sādiq Imām Mūsà ibn Ja‘far al-Kāẓim Imām ‘Alī ibn Mūsā al-Rizā Abu Mahfuz Ma'ruf Ibn Firuz al-Karkhi Sari Saqati Junayd al-Baghdadi Shaikh Abu Bakr Shibli Shaikh Abdul Aziz al-Tamīmī Abu al-Fadl Abu al-Wahid al-Tamīmī Abu al-Farah Tartusi Abu al-Hasan Farshi Abu Sa'id al-Mubarak Mukharrami Abdul-Qadir Gilani The meaning of this list (which I copy-pasted from Wikipedia) is that the Qadiri school traces its chain of enlightenment from the 8th and last Wali Al-Amr. The subsequent names are Shaykhs (Elders) who continued that school of spiritual thought up until Abdul Qadir Gilani. Then another school commenced from Shaykh Gilani's time.