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A true Sunni

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A true Sunni last won the day on October 27 2016

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  1. I think it's difficult to say what the Ebionites believed since they are now extinct. I agree Ebionites were regarded as Heretics but that just means that they were/are in the minority. Shias are often called heretics and the proof that they are heretics given is that Sunnis are the majority
  2. Thanks Andres, interesting parallels between Shia & Sunni. The companions claiming that they know Jesus better then the family and then going on to claim overall leadership of the Christian Church. What evidence do you have that James ever accepted Jesus as a Deity. The only writings I have read from James are the fragmented Apocalypse 1 & 2. Intriguing fragments that imply a different deeper teaching from Jesus.
  3. Do Hanafis/Hanbalis/Shafis pray like pagans?

    It is unlikely he is a prominent Maliki scholar. If he was a prominent Maliki scholar he would know the following incontrovertible facts. Maliki school of thought has an extra level jurispudence over and above the other 3 schools The extra level of jurispudence says if you find 2 conflicting opinions and cannot resolve which one is correct, look to the people of Medina and do what they do. So in respect of Salaat. Imam Qasim who one of Imam Malik's most prominent students reports that he asked Imam Malik his opinion on those that folded their arms in salaat. Imam Malik is reported to have said 'I have never seen the people of Medina pray with their arms folded. The second piece of evidence that is in my opinion far more illuminating is that the Ibadis of Oman also pray with their arms open. The Ibaadis are the descendents of the Kharijis who split from the main Ummah after Jang-Sifeen. They are well known to have rejected religious indoctrination from the Omayads, Abbasides and indeed Hz Ali(as) or any of the 4 Sunni Imams. Since it is quite clear they developed in isolation from the rest of the Muslim Ummah it is enlightening that they also pray with their arms open. Malikis , Shias and Ibaadis historically do not share any Religious Jurists therefore either they all independently all started opening their hands or this was the original method. Hanafi. Hanbal and Shafi all share a common origin and teachings and all have closed arms. Just on the balance of probability hand clasping would appear to be the modification
  4. Apologies I am genuinely puzzled, are saying the first Christians didnt believe that Jesus was a deity or did believe he was a deity
  5. You have obviously not been reading what I have said or tried to understand. When a person says this is an academic debate, he is by definition admitting there are differing views on the subject and wants to explore differing view points. In addition to that if a person makes a claim that is objective then he must be prepared to be challenged on that issue. As I said to Baqar I am not here to convince you nor do I expect to because what we are discussing is partly an article of faith. It is unfortunate that you are unused to these academic debates
  6. What's your thought of 'son of God' being used in Jewish literature as an honorific for the Messiah. is it possible that references to son of God in the NT meant the Messiah not the literal son of god. Only it's original meaning got lost with the Greekified Christians. We all know the Greeks & Romans created deities at the drop of a hat
  7. Are Prophet Wives included in Ahl albayat (33:33)?

    There seems to be different traditions , indicating different houses. However my point stands about is a daughter considered her fathers household after she is married.
  8. And yours is based on wishful thinking and a revionist mind set trying to cover up for what is apparent in the written records. No actual proof of what you say just a theory based on a wish and a prayer literally
  9. The discussion from my point of view is purely an academic one, not one of trying to prove people right or wrong or indeed have an end. This discussion has forced me into researching further and the more I read the more I learn.
  10. We are not talking about the contents of the Bible or the Quaran. We are not talking about the Quaran or Bibles interpretation or misinterpretation . The concept of the Trinity is not derived from the bible hence its irrelevant whats written there except as a back drop. The Nicean Creed is very important because the original and subsequent changes gives us a snap shot in time of the predominant view of the Church. History is written by the victors and this applies to religion as much as anything else. Majority of Christians in 2017 are Trinitarians. It is an inconvenient observation that a significant proportion of Christians in the earliest period might not have considered Jesus a Deity. According to the argument you are using it seems that you are saying that Arius believed Jesus was the Son of God but couldn't resolve the issue of his relationship to the Father. According to you they excommunicated him on this basis but didnt bother resolving the third leg of the triune. Highly doubtful Its more likely I contend that Arius believed that Jesus was the Son of God ( Messiah - as the Jews of old used the terminology) The split occured because the Eastern church which hadnt been influenced by 'Greekified Christianity' and all its deities wasnt prepared to make Jesus a Deity
  11. so they got all these guys together from all over Christendom and left the creed in a big a mess as when they started . As far as I can tell the trinity was hardly accepted by anyone.
  12. Are Prophet Wives included in Ahl albayat (33:33)?

    So a question that might be pertinent here. If a girl marries and joins her husbands household is she still thought of as being part of her fathers household. Are children of the daughter considered to be part of the grandfathers household. It seems that 'Ahlul Bait' that are being purified are the household of Hz Ali (as). The cloak incident is reported to have taken place in the House of Hz Ali (as) This would be entirely consistent with Shia philosophy.
  13. As I said 99% signed up to a Di-ity model that persisted for over 200 years. You keep harping on about trinitarians but as I said several pages ago Talking about the Father Son and Holy Ghost doesnt make you a Trinitarian. Its affirming a particular relationship between the Father Son and Holy Ghost that makes you a Trinitarian. If the Trnity was accepted by everyone it would have been written in the Creed.
  14. With all respect that's a very creative interpretation. As I said I really call into question the competency of the Bishops if indeed they were basing their creed on what they weren't rather then what they were. Now you are also accusing the Bishops of hypocrisy by signing up to something they didn't believe. That silent group with their own opinions set Christianity down the path of embracing Trinity. Interesting I have been looking at the usage of the term 'Son of God' in Jewish writings. Judaism as you know does not countenance a real physical son of God ( as in Christian teachings), but nevertheless does use the term occasionally. It uses 'son of god' when it discusses the Messiah but also very occasionally kings. Is it possible the real 'Arian' controversy was that Bishop Arius wanted Jesus recognised as a Messianic Son of God ( not a deity) And the other group wanted to deify Jesus Just a thought
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