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  1. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    As for the Holy Quran and its verses...It has to be taken into consideration that even though verses were revealed before later events, the Quran itself claims to have within it every similitude for humanity and events all the way up to Qiyamat or Judgement Day...Consequently, the Event of Karbala has been addressed in the Quran in essence. The Event of Karbala represents in its purest ideals, the simple archetypal example of truth standing up to falsehood and tyranny. It is not the ONLY event in history by any means that represented this theme but it is the most famous one in the Muslim world. There have been in essence other "Karbalas" throughout history in greater scale and lesser scale...For example, what Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot did to his own people...Having children physically tortured and then brutally executed...What Mussolini did to his own people and what Stalin did in Russia. Stalin reportedly massacred millions of his own citizens... There has always been tyrannical regimes that oppressed or massacred people. And even the basic outline of what led up to Karbala and why can be found in metaphors in the verses of the Quran... The Quranic verse which states that if ONE INNOCENT LIFE IS TAKEN, IT IS AS IF ALL MANKIND HAS BEEN SLAIN...Well if Husayn bin Ali, grandson of Muhammad the Prophet, was masoom (innocent) than he would fall under that verse of the Quran...Slaying an innocent Husayn is like slaying all of mankind...That would be the Shia position on the subject. But just as easily, it is NOT exclusive to Imam Husayn. It would include ANY innocent soul... P.S.--By the way, for whatever its worth...My Anti-Salafi rant toward you was to reflect the general latent anger toward you, the OP, that seemed to be simmering in this thread...Now, it may seem that you might even have some empathizers (NOT sympathizers, by any means) after my impromptu pseudo-tirade...Of course, your timing for this thread being Muharram may not have been the most ideal time...But what has been launched, has been launched...Let's hope it will produce a better overall understanding of the institution of Karbala from the shi'ite interpretation of it in Islam...
  2. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    That is a very interesting inquiry...And since I will have to approach this subject as objectively as possible... Karbala has been made into a tenet of religion by only one interpretation of Islam... Which is mainly through the efforts of the Shia Uleyma. If you have ever closely listened to Qutbahs of such uleyma, it is not different from the frenzy which Southern U.S. Baptist ministers whip up in their sermons and lectures... The Shias uphold that only the "love" for Husayn b. Ali can inspire such devotion that it reaches the level of becoming a religious tenet. The Shia followers are being convinced that shafaat (intercession) through the Event of Karbala is a form of purification of the human soul...Much like the concept of Christ dying for our sins and all we have to do is accept Christ as our saviour and we can be guided to the eternal kingdom of heaven. The two beliefs of Shiaism and the central tenet of salvation through Christ are remarkably similar. Christ died for mankind's sins, Husayn died for Islam and Muslims...So in order to attain paradise Christ has to be accepted as the saviour and Son of God...And Husayn's Ultimate Sacrifice has to be accepted and mourned for shafaat (intercession) on qiyamat day... However, we don't have Imam Husayn here to get his honest comments on how his life and death should be UNDERSTOOD and INTERPRETED...
  3. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    @qalandar_1 It is an observable fact that each year the event of Karbala has not decreased in the amount of participants it attracts. It has become an institution to one particular group of Muslims. Its adherence has also been observed to a much more restrained and conservative level by even some members of the Sunni majority. There are Sunni organizations that acknowledge Karbala and pay their respects to the memory of what Karbala stands for in Islamic history. For the Shias, Karbala has become an institution which has gained a following like no other religious movement in history... I don't know of any world religion that mourns a traditionally tragic event to the extent that staunch Shias do... Keep in mind that this adherence has crossed ethnic boundaries and is observed in like manner by Levantine Arabs (i.e. 'arab or Arabic-speakers); a'arab or Arabian Peninsular Arabs; Persians; Shia Afghans; South Asians; Indonesians; etc... Even the Crucifixion of Christ has NEVER achieved this level of observance in which a people can be stirred to such a frenzy where they are willing to self-flagellate themselves, some of their young ones (which would NEVER happen here in the U.S. as it would be seen as fanatical child abuse and a jailable offense...The practice of qamaa and blade-matam for instance). The adherence to the Hijri lunar month of Muharram has become an annual event of such a proportion, that its observance has long-since become a religious rite. Consequently, the Event of Karbala is a religion within a religion. I would like to observe that Abu Mikhnaf was commissioned by 2nd Abbasid Caliph Al-Mansur himself, to publish his literary works in Islamic hagiography and historiography... His MAQTAL HUSAYN was one of the earliest such literary works in standard Islamic history...Since there has been NO HISTORIOGRAPHICAL or HAGIOGRAPHICAL LITERATURE from the Umayyad period... As for the annual commemoration of the Event of Karbala... Of course, with anything that takes on such a magnitude, it is bound to have its detractors and critics...It is a similar form of psychological reaction to, let's say, pop superstardom... Especially, since some religious conservatives or ultra-conservatives view that such an overzealous focus on a single historical event, detracts from the everyday practice of standard Islam at hand... P.S.--If you want an answer from me, it is on my terms and conditions...And I don't give one or two liners...Understood ?
  4. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    Which line ? There are TWO entirely different lines, indicating 2 very different aspects of the subject... Should I laugh now ? Or wait till what you said starts to become funny...
  5. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    You would do well to not preach...Since you really don't know who you are dealing with. That is why I stayed away from this particular forum for almost 3 years now... And I agreed to no rules when I came on this forum...Rules have been posted, but there is no button giving the option to agree or disagree before entering the Shia/Sunni Forum. Maybe, SC might have to install one or ban me. I could care less... And I know more about the conduct of the Hashimite Sayeds, whom you unjustiafiably claim as "our Imams", than your father or grandfather...Shias have no claims of ownership or proprietership over Prophet Muhammad's Ahlul Bayt... ...And some Salafis are no better than some Shias, for that matter... I have personally experienced such indescribably abject conduct from some who call themselves "Shias" in my life, which would not be believed if they were ever to be made public... Believe it or not, I was actually RAISED Twelver Shia (from the paternal lineage)... Anyhow, I think I will return to the I/J/C forum which separates the men from the boys (where I normally circulate)... And this persona of "Al-Afza" that has been invented is part of a semi neuro-psychological/sociological experiment that has not yet been caught on by some... Anyone who has kept track of the "Al-Afza" posts since Dec 2005 till now, would certainly think that there is either multiple people operating as "Al-Afza" or this character has a multiple personality disorder... Wa Salam.
  6. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    [epilogue] You see the Salafi mindset is all too recognizable. The Salafi methodology is often to take the one or two obscure hadith over the 8 or 10 more commonly accepted ones and argue it to death. The Salafi method is to systematically, categorically, and methodically wear down intellectual and intelligent opposition and hope to succeed in bringing them over to their cause. This whole Karbala issue between the Shias and Salafis on opposite camps has gotten a lot of added publicity with that "Muslim" televangelist buffoon Zakir Naik's saying rahimullah for that rat basterd S.O.B. Yazid. It is based on the Salafi REVISIONISM of standard Islamic history about the Karbala event…Among other Salafi revisions. A main motivation behind this is the alleged hadith about Prophet Muhammad stating that the man who leads the capture of Constantinople will receive jannah (garden of heaven). Supposedly, Yazid I was that military leader…Whether this is even remotely true or not, is no longer an issue for the Salafi mentality. They want to believe it and propagate it. The Salafi movement is based on their concept of unity for the Muslim ummah (community). But this unity is at the expense of truth and reality, which are compromised more often than not. Even if there are anomalies and discrepancies in standard Islamic history, this doesn't matter to the Salafi thought-process or their political agenda. Shiaism is perceived as the main threat to the Salafi concept of Muslim unity. So it is the Salafi mission to unify the Muslim ummah through challenging what they think may be major disuniting elements within standard Islamic history. The Salafis want no "perceived" loose ends. Another major Salafi concept is the obsession with Khilafah and the unity of Islam under an ideal Khilafat (Succession). Since the predecessors (salaf) were the so-called sahabas of Muhammad, then their successors (khilafah) must uphold the alleged "sunnah" of Muhammad. The fact that there NEVER was a formal doctrine entitled "The Sunnah" from Prophet Muhammad's time or at any time, but what was really a once scattered collection of alleged hadith which were most certainly NOT CONTEMPORANEOUS…Not making their appearance until well over a century after the Prophet's passing. The biggest boost for the Salafi movement came from the House of Saud, those one-time sheep-stealing brigands from the Nejd. The Saudis feel they are the rightful heirs of the Umayyad Caliphate. Consequently, they have systematically advocated a historical REWRITE and REVISION of the Umayyads and their role in early Islamic history. The fact that there is NO SHRED OF EVIDENCE that the Umayyads EVER propagated Islamic philosophy of religion in any way, doesn't seem to bother the Salafi mentality. ALL Islamic schools; Islamic universities; Islamic libraries were built by the Abbasid and Fatimid Caliphates. NOT THE UMAYYADS. This being irrefutable fact. ALL the Islamic schools of Fiqh (jurisprudence and law) EMERGED during the Abbasid Era, NOT the Umayyad era. For example, Malik bin Anas was born in 711 or 714 C.E. but it wasn't until AFTER the Umayyad Dynasty came to an end in 750 C.E. (132 A.H.) by Abul Abbas Abdullah b. Muhammad b. Ali, did Malik have the freedom of establishing his teachings via his pupils. Getting back to the Karbala issue, it is important for the Salafi mindset to "vindicate" Yazid as the monster behind it. Granted that the historical event of Karbala has taken a life of its own down the ages and has virtually evolved into a religion within a religion. Abu Mikhnaf's account of the event actually published in 773 C.E., has been oversampled to where the original and allegedly far more restrained, reserved, and scholarly account has long-since been unavailable in print. Notwithstanding that Abu Mikhnaf's original MAQTAL HUSAYN was one of the first ever hagiographical works of standard Islamic history. But for the Salafi ideology the delusion that Yazid b. Muawiyah was a great military leader is all that counts. Consequently, Yazid has to be REINVENTED as a gentleman. For the Salafi mentality, the following credo could possibly apply : If a person intentionally kills another, than that person is a murderer. However, if a person is intentionally responsible for killing a thousand people, than that person should be hailed as a conqueror. The Bani Umayyah no more represented an imaginary brotherhood under the perceived "Islamic" umbrella, than did Alexander the Great's supposed desire for a universal brotherhood of all men under Pan-Hellenism. He was and remains a megalomaniacal mass-murderer of history. Just like the Umayyads were really Pan-Arabists at the very least. They were hardly Islamists of any kind. The Salafi-Saudi REINVENTION of the Umayyad role in early standard Islamic history amounts to nothing short of bidah (innovation). For that matter, the ENTIRE religion of standard Islam as defined by the institutionalized concept of Ahadith is nothing short of bidah (innovation)...Especially, since ALL existing and out-of-print original standard Islamic historiographical, hagiographical, and theological literature [excluding the Holy Qur'an, of course] came into existence WELL OVER A CENTURY OR TWO after the passing of Muhammad. Without ANY CONTEMPORANEOUS standard Islamic material, in modern scientific academic circles, this is in-credible in terms of intellectual acceptability...Consequently, the very title of this thread Karbala : Fact or Fiction could be considered an oxymoron along such standards...Coming from a purported Salafi, no less...The epitome of the term oxymoron. The very appellation Salafi (Predecessor) was selected to symbolize a return to the original concept of standard Islam...However, SINCE THERE ARE NO ORIGINAL CONTEMPORANEOUS MATERIALS ON ISLAM, how can this be possible ? Conclusion: SALAF-ISM IS AN OXYMORON. P.S.--For the little girl RuQaYaH...I thought this forum was for grown-ups...There is a concept called freedom of speech but since this forum exists in " virtual reality" and NOT the good ol' USA...The concept of shock-and-awe is sometimes effective in the psychological warfare of a simple forum debate as well as on the battlefield. No genuine malicious offense was intended...Just a psychological ploy...Often appropriate when engaging the Salafi primates...
  7. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    Refuted POINTS ? Historical EVIDENCE ? What ARE YOU TALKING [Edited out] ? YOU SALAFI [Edited out] HAVE NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE...WHAT PART OF THAT DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ? ALL AHADITH ARE UNSUBSTANTIATED, SINCE NONE ARE CONTEMPORANEOUS... STANDARD "ISLAMIC" HISTORIANS ARE ALL FULL OF [Edited out] ... Because they rely upon 2nd hand, hand-me-down, hearsay narratives which are NOT CONTEMPORANEOUS... LET ME REPEAT MYSELF : [With the exception of Gerhard Puin's epigraphical assessment of the Sanaa Quranic parchments circa the Caliphate of the Umayyad Al-Waleed] THERE IS NO CONTEMPORANEOUS HISTORIOGRAPHICAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT ANYTHING ABOUT THE [Edited out] UMAYYADS...FROM THE [Edited out] UMAYYADS THEMSELVES...From that "Barking [Edited out]" Muawiyah b. Abu Sufyan down to that other muther Marwan II and his family, who were slaughtered like swine by Abu Al-Abbas Abdullah b. Muhammad b. Ali (Founder of the Abbasid Caliphate)... This is EXCLUDING the later, NOMINAL "Umayyad" Dynasty of Southern Spain. BTW, I really don't suffer from "SOS (Salafi Obsession Syndrome)" as your [Edited out] puts it...LOL Simply because Salafis are a JOKE...And FRAUDS. It has been recognized that they are advoctes of a book written by the intellectual Neanderthal Mohd. b. Abdul Wahhab entitled Islam For Dummies... Former Christian theologian-turned-secular, Professor Bart Ehrman, has consistently dismantled Christian theologians in lectures and debates simply because neither Paul or Luke EVER PERSONALLY KNEW JESUS...Paul was the real founder of Christianity as we know it today. Can you imagine what someone like a Bart Ehrman would do to you Salafi [Edited out] in a live debate with your adherence to standard Islamic literature that didn't even EMERGE UNTIL 135-200 YEARS AFTER THE PASSING OF THE PROPHET OF ISLAM ? Come on SALAFI [Edited out]...Let's GO FOR IT...I love a good intellectual BRAWL WITH ANY SALAFI [Edited out]... In occasional personal debates, I have figuratively ripped some Salafis a new one for the sake of mental enemas they are latently begging for... P.S.--When I have ventured into the Shia/Sunni Forum on SC (which I haven't done in a couple years), I have to shift intellectual gears in order to adjust to the road conditions...
  8. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

    @qalandar_1 Some food for thought for the Salafi monkeys... Why are there no existing hagiographical, historiographical, theological material from Prophet Muhammad's time ? He had many contemporaries who WERE LITERATE. There should be TONS of AUTHENTIC, CONTEMPORANEOUS LITERATURE from the time of the so-called "Rashidun Khilafah"... But there isn't...WHY NOT ? IF THERE WERE ANY SUCH MATERIALS FROM THE TIME OF THE "RASHIDUN KHALIFAHS", WHAT HAPPENDED TO THEM ? The ONLY LOGICAL answer would be that someone destroyed all that material. WHO COULD HAVE DONE THAT ? THE INGLOURIOUS RAT BASTERDS THE BANI UMAYYAH ?...Who else ? ALL ISLAMIC SCHOOLS, ISLAMIC UNIVERSITIES, ISLAMIC AUTHORS, etc., MATERIALIZED DURING THE CALIPHATE OF THE BANI ABBAS OR THE FATIMID CALIPHATE....WHY ? The Umayyads were interested in PAN-ARABISM...NOT ISLAM. The REAL establishment of the religion of Islam was done via DAWAH propagated by the Abbasid Caliphate...NOT the Umayyad Caliphate. And I'm NOT including the NOMINAL, much later "Umayyad" rulership of Southern Spain... The Umayyads were interested IN JIZYAH (POLL TAX)...So they could amass the treasury to further their conquests and plunder. Converting their conquered territories into Muslims wasn't in their interest or agenda OTHERWISE THERE WOULD BE NO JIZYAH (POLL TAX) FOR THE UMAYYADS TO ACHIEVE THIS...As Muslims were EXEMPT FROM PAYING JIZYAH OR TAX...Basic logic and common sense the Salafi REVISIONISTS seem to be ignoring... The fact that the Salafi movement IS RE-WRITING AND RE-INVENTING the Umayyad role in standard Islamic history clearly attests to their FRAUD. UMAYYAD CALIPH MUAWIYAH BIN ABU SUFYAN WAS ALLEGEDLY THE SON OF A VIRTUAL "PIMP"...And yet the Salafis are re-inventing him as an Islamic hero without A SHRED OF CONTEMPORANEOUS SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THIS. WE DON'T HAVE ANY AUTHENTIC, CONTEMPORANEOUS MATERIAL ON WHETHER MUAWIYAH WAS THE SON OF AN ALLEGED "PIMP", EITHER...FOR THAT MATTER.
  9. Karbala: Fact Or Fiction?

  10. Tabernacle is greater than Kaaba

    Note: Here is the full text of the Biblical verses which lead up to the verse about the 'Chosen People' and the verses after...So the reader can get the full context in which this Biblical verse mentioning the 'Chosen People' comes across : Deuteronomy 13 Worshiping Other Gods 1 [a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you. 6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again. 12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the LORD your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes. Deuteronomy 14 Clean and Unclean Food 1 You are the children of the LORD your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead, 2for you are a people holy to the LORD your God. Out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the LORD has chosen you to be his treasured possession. 3 Do not eat any detestable thing. 4 These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, 5 the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep.[a]6 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud. 7 However, of those that chew the cud or that have a divided hoof you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the hyrax. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a divided hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you. 8 The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses. 9 Of all the creatures living in the water, you may eat any that has fins and scales. 10 But anything that does not have fins and scales you may not eat; for you it is unclean. 11 You may eat any clean bird. 12 But these you may not eat: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, 13 the red kite, the black kite, any kind of falcon, 14 any kind of raven, 15 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 16 the little owl, the great owl, the white owl, 17 the desert owl, the osprey, the cormorant, 18 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. 19 All flying insects are unclean to you; do not eat them. 20 But any winged creature that is clean you may eat. 21 Do not eat anything you find already dead. You may give it to the foreigner residing in any of your towns, and they may eat it, or you may sell it to any other foreigner. But you are a people holy to the LORD your God. Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk. Tithes 22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own. 28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- From very careful reading and comprehension of these Biblical verses, the reader can gather that when the appellation ISRAEL is mentioned in Deuteronomy 13:11, it could be safe to assume that the Biblical verse is in direct reference to the Sons of Jacob Israel. So the ACTUAL Biblical verse which mentions the CHOSEN PEOPLE in Deuteronomy 14:2 is in direct reference to the Children of Jacob Israel, WHICH INCLUDED ALL TWELVE SONS OF JACOB ISRAEL. However, Deuteronomy 14:27-28 STATES THAT THE LEVITES (BANI LUAYY) or the progeny of Luayy bin Yaqub Israil (Levi ben Jacob Israel) HAS NO ALLOTTMENT OR INHERITANCE OF THEIR OWN ! These Biblical verses are VERY STRANGE indeed. Considering that according to Judeo-Christian/Biblical texts, MOSES, THE DELIVERER OF ALL TWELVE TRIBES OF JACOB ISRAEL, WAS A LEVITE ! AND SO WAS HIS BROTHER AARON ! There are definitely some problems here with these Biblical verses which are sending conflicting messages to the reader. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ Copy-paste from the Encyclopedia of Judaism : The doctrine in Judaism (also known as election) that God chose the people of Israel from among the nations. The doctrine of the chosen people is closely related to the notion of Covenant, the contract between God and Israel. The concept originates with the Divine choice of Abraham and his descendants as recounted in Genesis. God's first communication with Abraham already hints at a unique relationship with God that has implications for the rest of mankind: "I will make of you a great nation ... and all the families of the earth shall bless themselves by you" (Gen. 12:2-3). God's covenant with Abraham is narrated in Genesis 17, and the contractual agreement in which the people of Israel agree to keep God's law (Ex. 19-24) is foreshadowed in God's musing: "Since Abraham is to become a great and populous nation, and all the nations of the earth are to bless themselves by him; for I have singled him out, that he may instruct his children and his posterity to keep the way of the Lord, by doing what is just and right" (Gen. 18:18-19). At Sinai, the entire people of Israel is invited to affirm the covenant and enter into a special relationship with God: "Now, therefore, if you will obey Me faithfully, and keep My covenant, you shall be My treasured possession among all peoples; for all the earth is Mine; but you shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation ..." (Ex. 19:5-6). Israel, in agreeing to these terms (Ex. 19:7, 24:3, 7), reconfirms Abraham's covenant and renders it binding upon all future generations. Lest the people forget the experience, Moses, shortly before his death, reminds them: "For you are a people consecrated unto the Lord your God, and the Lord your God chose you from among all other peoples on earth to be His treasured possession" (Deut. 14:2). The doctrine of the chosen people is presumed throughout the Bible, although nowhere does it receive systematic elaboration. No clear reason is offered for Israel's election: on the contrary, "The Lord did not set His heart upon you or choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples---indeed, you were the fewest of all peoples---but it was because the Lord favored you ..." (Deut. 7:7-8). Here and in the above citations, the Bible reiterates the unique situation whereas although the Lord is God of all the nations, Israel is nevertheless singled out. God tells Moses to inform Pharaoh that the Jewish people is His first-born, not His only child (Ex. 4:22; see also Amos 9:7 and Mal. 2:10). Although the perception of a special relationship with God was at the very least a source of pride (Num. 17:6), the Bible does not spare its rebuke of the people of Israel for their transgressions, and informs them that, "I have known only you of all the peoples of the earth; therefore I will visit upon you all your iniquities" (Amos 3:2). Chosenness implied responsibilities towards the other nations (e.g., Gen. 12:3; Ex. 19:6; Deut. 4:6-7; Isa. 49:6), even suffering on their behalf (Isa. 52:13-53:12). Although the doctrine of Israel's election receives no direct expression in Maimonides' thirteen Principles of Faith, it has been suggested that its place in Jewish consciousness always maintained the centrality of an "unformulated dogma." The rabbis of the Talmud presumed a system of the most intimate relationship between God and the Jewish people, with R. Akiva (second cent. CE) going so far as to assert that the highly explicit love poetry of the Song of Songs was nothing less than a metaphor of the relationship between God and His people (Yad. 3:5; Tosef Sanh. 12:10). One rabbinic tradition (based on Ex. 19:8, 24:3, 7) credits the Jewish people with choosing God, in that it was the only nation on earth willing to accept the Torah (AZ 2b-3a). The most succinct expression of the rabbinic view of election is to be found in the text of the holiday liturgy, "You have chosen us from all peoples; You have loved us and taken pleasure in us, and have exalted us above all tongues; You have sanctified us by Your commandments and brought us near unto Your service, our King; You have called us by Your great and holy Name." The rabbis also subscribed to the biblical perspective that posited God as not only the "patron" of Israel but the God of all nations: "He is our God by making His name particularly attached to us; but He is also the one God of all mankind. He is our God in this world, He will be the only God in the world to come, as it is said (Zech. 14:9), 'And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day there shall be one Lord and His name One'" (Sif. on Deut. 6:4). In later periods, views of chosenness coalesced along two fairly distinct lines. Some medieval and modern thinkers, Maimonides foremost among them, saw election as a matter of duty, not of rights. Sanctity and superiority are promised as a consequence of obedience to the covenant, not granted as an outright gift or presumed as a national prerogative. Transgression brings with it inferiority and decline. The second school, whose chief proponent was Judah Halevi, and which is echoed in ḥasidism and the Kabbalah, sees Israel as intrinsically unique and attributes special qualities to Jewish souls. Although the possibility of Conversion to Judaism was one factor precluding any racist theory, the emphasis on Israel's election became stronger when historical circumstances and persecutions pressed upon the Jewish community. The treatment that Jews received from their neighbors throughout history did not encourage universalist tendencies, while Christianity's claim to have replaced Israel's covenant and become the "true Israel" further exacerbated exclusivist leanings. With Emancipation, the doctrine of the chosen people became increasingly problematic. Early Reformers such as Abraham Geiger sought to retain the notion of election by rational reinterpretation, seeing Israel's mission fulfilled in its dispersion, through which it brings God's message to the world. Others emphasized the element of Israel's choice of God and Torah, for which there is a basis in rabbinic thought. The Reform prayer book Gates of Prayer (New York, 1975) provides a very broad gamut of alternate worship services for all occasions, from the traditional and particularistic to the universalistic and non-theistic. The idea of chosenness has been reintroduced in the particularistic prayers. For example, the traditional version of the ancient Hebrew prayer Alénu Le-Shabbe'Aḥ is one of the alternatives offered. A literal translation of the Hebrew is: "We must praise the Lord of all, and attribute greatness to the Primeval Creator, Who has not made us like the nations of the lands, nor established us like the families of the earth. He has not set our lot like theirs, and our destiny like that of all their multitudes ..." The translation given in Gates of Prayer is somewhat modified: "...Who has set us apart from the other families of earth, giving us a destiny unique among the nations." The idea of the chosenness of Israel is, however, preserved in the blessings before the Reading of the Law and the HAFTARAH in both the Hebrew and English. Likewise, the traditional passage "You have chosen us" has been restored to the AMIDAH prayer in the festival services. Most of these elements were excluded from the Union Prayer Book which had previously dominated American Reform congregations for over 80 years. Certain thinkers, most notably Mordecai KAPLAN, repudiated the idea, and his Reconstructionist movement expunged all mention of chosenness from its prayer book. Nevertheless, most contemporary thinkers retain some conception of chosenness and covenant. More traditional circles did not find these ideas difficult, their members daily reciting benedictions which thank God for choosing Israel. Many Zionist thinkers (though not all), while seeking the "normalization" of Jewish national life, were also intrigued by the biblical appellation "light unto the nations" (Isa. 49:6) and hoped that the State of Israel would develop into some expression of this ideal. Throughout the generations, the belief in its election has fortified the Jewish people in time of crisis, given a sense of purpose to individual and national life, and motivated the pursuit of moral and spiritual excellence, while rarely degenerating into crass ethnocentricity. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Below is the full context in which the ONLY other Biblical verse regarding the CHOSEN PEOPLE is mentioned : Deuteronomy 7 (King James Version) Deuteronomy 7 1When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girga[Edited Out]es, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; 2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: 3Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. 5But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. 6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. 7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: 8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations; 10And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face. 11Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them. 12Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers: 13And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee. 14Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle. 15And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee. 16And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: neither shalt thou serve their gods; for that will be a snare unto thee. 17If thou shalt say in thine heart, These nations are more than I; how can I dispossess them? 18Thou shalt not be afraid of them: but shalt well remember what the LORD thy God did unto Pharaoh, and unto all Egypt; 19The great temptations which thine eyes saw, and the signs, and the wonders, and the mighty hand, and the stretched out arm, whereby the LORD thy God brought thee out: so shall the LORD thy God do unto all the people of whom thou art afraid. 20Moreover the LORD thy God will send the hornet among them, until they that are left, and hide themselves from thee, be destroyed. 21Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible. 22And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee. 23But the LORD thy God shall deliver them unto thee, and shall destroy them with a mighty destruction, until they be destroyed. 24And he shall deliver their kings into thine hand, and thou shalt destroy their name from under heaven: there shall no man be able to stand before thee, until thou have destroyed them. 25The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therin: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God. 26Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another COLOSSAL Biblical contradiction. Deuteronomy 7:7 CLEARLY STATES that the ISRAELITES were THE FEWEST OF ALL PEOPLE ! And yet, in Exodus the Pharaoh of Egypt was afraid that the Children of Jacob Israel were TOO NUMEROUS and therefore ordered their persecution ! The Bible holds the number of MEN alone who were part of the Exodus out of Egypt: 600,000 ! Including women, children, and the elderly, the aggregate number of ISRAELITES were approximately 3 MILLION ! See below: Exodus 1:1-20 (King James Version) Exodus 1 1Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob. 2Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, 3Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin, 4Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher. 5And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already. 6And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation. 7And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them. 8Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph. 9And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we: 10Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land. 11Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses. 12But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel. 13And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour: 14And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour. 15And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah: 16And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live. 17But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive. 18And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive? 19And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them. [b]20Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  11. Tabernacle is greater than Kaaba

    In a possibly conclusive answer to your question... Below ARE THE ONLY BIBLICAL VERSES WHICH ALLUDE TO THE "JEWS" AS THE CHOSEN PEOPLE: The Bible - Old Testament Deutoronomy 14:1 You are the children of the LORD your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead, Deutoronomy 14:2 for you are a people holy to the LORD your God. Out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the LORD has chosen you to be his treasured possession. As anyone can observe, there is NO ACTUAL MENTION OF "JEWS" in these specific verses ! AND THIS IS IT. THERE IS NOTHING MORE IN THE BIBLE SPECIFICALLY MENTIONING THE "CHOSEN PEOPLE"... Other Biblical verses related to this subject are: The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people, and your father's household and go to the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you" (Genesis 12:1-3 NIV). I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God (Genesis 17:7-8 NIV). If you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all His commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you. Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please Him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess. Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other (Deuteronomy 28:15, 63-64 NIV). One can easily make the Quranic and Biblical comparisons of these scriptural verses. The Bible CLEARLY states that BOTH ISHMAEL & ISAAC HAD A COVENANT WITH ALMIGHTY GOD (YAHWEH/AL-LAH)...Below is a re-pasted post that VERIFIES and RECONFIRMS this: One of the main reasons why the Tabernacle is considered to be greater than the Holy Kaaba, is because the posterity of Ishmael[ismail] was never considered to have had Patriarch Abraham's covenant with them. And since in Saracen[Eastern] tradition, the Kaaba was built by Abraham and his eldest son Ishmael, it was thus rejected in Judeo-Christianity. In Judeo-Christianity, Isaac was taken to the altar for sacrifice upon Yahweh/Al-Lah's command. In the Qur'an, it was Ishmael...And because of this, Almighty God blessed the aged Patriarch Abraham with ANOTHER son through his aged spouse Lady Sarah named ISAAC(Is-haq)... Genesis 17 1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, 4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. 6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. 7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. 13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. 15And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. 16And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. 17Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear? 18And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! 19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. 20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. 22And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham. 23And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him. 24And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 25And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 26In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. 27And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him. --------------------------------------------- Now speak of diametrically opposed messages from the Biblical translators !! Here we have Almighty God[Allah/Yahweh] clearly stating that ALL of Patriarch Ibrahim's seed who will be circumsized, HAS AN EVERLASTING COVENANT WITH ALMIGHTY GOD. Both patriarchs Abraham and Ishmael were circumsized on the selfsame day ! What greater proof from the Bible itself of Almighty God's covenant with Patriarch Abraham through his eldest son Patriarch Ishmael ! The emboldened and underlined Biblical verses from Genesis 17 CLEARLY indicate that Patriarch Ishmael had an everlasting covenant with Almighty God. Now, the Biblical translators have just placed this GLARING CONTRADICTION upon [audhubillah] Almighty God Himself !! If you would have READ the verses 100-113 of Surah As-Saffat[The Ranks], you would have clearly understood that after Patriarch Ibrahim asked Almighty God for the righteous[in reference to his progeny]...Patriarch Ibrahim was given Patriarch Ishmael. In verses 100-108, as an answer to his prayer, Patriarch Ibrahim gets Nabih Ishma-El = God hears; God has hearkened; God is Hearing. 37:100 Rabbi hab lee mina alssaliheena My Lord! grant me of the doers of good deeds. 37:101 Fabashsharnahu bighulamin haleemin So We gave him the good news of a boy, possessing forbearance. 37:102 Falamma balagha maAAahu alssaAAya qala ya bunayya innee ara fee almanami annee athbahuka faonthur matha tara qala ya abati ifAAal ma tumaru satajidunee in shaa Allahu mina alssabireena And when he attained to working with him, he said: O my son! surely I have seen in a dream that I should sacrifice you; consider then what you see. He said: O my father! do what you are commanded; if Allah please, you will find me of the patient ones. 37:103 Falamma aslama watallahu liljabeeni So when they both submitted and he threw him down upon his forehead, 37:104 Wanadaynahu an ya ibraheemu And We called out to him saying: O Ibrahim! 37:105 Qad saddaqta alrruya inna kathalika najzee almuhsineena "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right. 37:106 Inna hatha lahuwa albalao almubeenu Most surely this is a manifest trial. 37:107 Wafadaynahu bithibhin AAatheemin And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice: 37:108 Watarakna AAalayhi fee al-akhireena And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times: 37:109 Salamun AAala ibraheema Peace be unto Abraham! 37:110 Kathalika najzee almuhsineena Thus do We reward the doers of good. 37:111 Innahu min AAibadina almumineena Surely he was one of Our believing servants. 37:112 Wabashsharnahu bi-ishaqa nabiyyan mina alssaliheena And we gave him tidings of the birth of Isaac, a prophet of the righteous. 37:113 Wabarakna AAalayhi waAAala ishaqa wamin thurriyyatihima muhsinun wathalimun linafsihi mubeenun And We showered Our blessings on him and on Ishaq; and of their offspring are the doers of good, and (also) those who are clearly unjust to their own souls. ------------------------------------------------------ The verses 112 & 113 CLEARLY indicated that Patriarch Isaac[ishaq] was an additional son to Patriarch Abraham[ibrahim]. You see COMMON SENSE & LOGIC prevail. When his wife Lady Sarah was barren and aged, Patriarch Abraham took himself a surrogate spouse in Lady Hagar[Hajira]. Prophet Abraham could hardly have been the father of many nations if he was unable to sire any offspring... As a result, Patriarch Ishma-El [God hears] is born. However, Almighty God decides to test Patriarch Abraham and commands him in a dream to sacrifice his ONLY HEIR... Patriarch Abraham goes through with it but Almighty God spares him his sacrifice via a miracle : the lamb is sacrificed instead of Ishmael[ismail]. As a FURTHER token of Almighty God's magnanimity and generosity, He gives Patriarch Abraham the glad tidings of another heir in Isaac[ishaq] from his aged and barren first wife Lady Sarah. When Lady Sarah was given this news from Almighty God's angelic messengers, she laughed at this incredulous news...Hence, when the second heir was born, he was named Isaac = He will laugh. This above account is also covered in the Holy Qur'an in Surah Hud : 11:71 Waimraatuhu qa-imatun fadahikat fabashsharnaha bi-ishaqa wamin wara-i ishaqa yaAAqooba And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed: But we gave her glad tidings of Isaac, and after him, of Jacob. 11:72 Qalat ya waylata aalidu waana AAajoozun wahatha baAAlee shaykhan inna hatha lashay-on AAajeebun She said: "Alas for me! shall I bear a child, seeing I am an old woman, and my husband here is an old man? That would indeed be a wonderful thing!" 11:73 Qaloo ataAAjabeena min amri Allahi rahmatu Allahi wabarakatuhu AAalaykum ahla albayti innahu hameedun majeedun They said: "Dost thou wonder at Allah's decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, o ye people of the house! for He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of all glory!" P.S.--Most Muslims rarely discuss the first family that was identified by Allah(swt) as AHLUL BAYT [PEOPLE OF THE HOUSE] in the Holy Qur'an; Prophet Muhammad's family was the second family whom Allah(swt) identifies as the AHLUL BAYT [PEOPLE OF THE HOUSE] in Ayat Tatheer 33:33. ---------------------------------- In the Bible's Book of Genesis, Chapter 17, verses 2; 4; 7; 9, Almighty God CLEARLY states that He will have a covenant with Patriarch Abraham and his seed after him. God does NOT EXCLUDE any of Patriarch Abraham's seed. ALL are included : 2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. In Verse 10, Almighty God then instructs Patriarch Abraham as to what that covenant will require : Circumcision of all that ARE BORN IN ABRAHAM'S HOUSE and ALL that are bought with his money. In Verse 11, God explains that the act of circumcision is a TOKEN of His covenant with Patriarch Abraham. In Verse 13, God states that His covenant will be in Patriarch Abraham's FLESH itself : Genesis 17:13 and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. It will also be an EVERLASTING COVENANT. The following Biblical verses of Genesis UNMISTAKABLY state that both Patriarchs, Abraham and his eldest son Ishmael, have CONSECRATED that everlasting covenant with Almighty God : 23And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him. 24And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 25And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 26In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. Consequently, the Judeo-Christian BIBLE has UNMISTAKABLY ESTABLISHED that Prophet Ishmael DID HAVE AN EVERLASTING CONVENANT WITH ALMIGHTY GOD…In God's very own words as translated into Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and English. Thus, the verses Genesis 17:19-21 19 Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. Are INCONSISTENT with all the other verses regarding Almighty God's COVENANT with Patriarch Abraham and Abraham's seed after him… Verses 17:19-21 were possibly either doctored or were wholly inconsistent insertions by the Biblical translators… If Verses 17:19-21 would have stated I will ALSO establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. and But my covenant will I ALSO establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year… Then, that would have made a lot more sense and it would NOT have been inconsistent with the other verses regarding Almighty God's covenant with Patriarch Abraham and his seed after him. This ALSO brings into question Genesis chapter & verses 16:11-12, in which an unnamed Angel of the Lord relates to Lady Hagar[Hajira] : 11And the Angel of the Lord continued, See now, you are with child and shall bear a son, and shall call his name Ishma-El [God hears], because the Lord has heard and paid attention to your affliction. 12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brothers. Verse 12 IS IN CLEAR CONTRADICTION with the highly favourable verses of Genesis 17, in which it is unmistakably established that Almighty God DOES INDEED have an everlasting covenant with Patriarch Ishma-El[God hears]. Genesis 16:12 is TOTALLY INCONGRUOUS in comparison with the following chapter 17 of the Book of Genesis regarding Patriarch Ishmael ben Abraham. It is clearly out of place and does not belong there at all… Genesis 16:11-12 : 11And the Angel of the Lord continued, See now, you are with child and shall bear a son, and shall call his name Ishma-El [God hears], because the Lord has heard and paid attention to your affliction. 12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brothers. The above verses offer further examples of CONFLICTING messages from the translators of the Judeo-Christian BIBLE... If Lady Hagar[Hajira] is afflicted and Almighty God hears her affliction and sends the unnamed Angel of the Lord to appease and console her, what kind of a consolation is Verse 16:12 ??? A grieving surrogate spouse of Patriarch Abraham, who is to ensure him his progeny when his elderly and/or barren first wife cannot, presents Patriarch Abraham with a male heir but in return this heir will be a wild[donkey] of a man whose hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him ?? This does NOT make any sense... Furthermore, the grief and affliction of Lady Hagar[Hajira] is answered by Almighty God with the upcoming birth of a son to her whose very name means God Hears[ishma-El] but he will be a wild[donkey] of a man whose hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him... This makes even LESSER sense... It is very difficult to even conceive that the compassionate and merciful Lord God would answer someone's affliction with such a virtual curse (for lack of a better descriptive word)...And then in the following chapter [Genesis 17] declare that He will BLESS this very same wild[donkey] of a man by multiplying him exceedingly, begetting him twelve princes, and making him a GREAT NATION. Was it that the Biblical translators were trying to perpetuate the story and metaphor of Cain[Qabeel] and Abel[Habeel]--sons of Patriarch Adam--through Patriarch Abraham and his progeny ?? Genesis 16 Hagar and Ishmael 1 Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, "The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her." Abram agreed to what Sarai said. 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived. When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress. 5 Then Sarai said to Abram, "You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my servant in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the LORD judge between you and me." 6 "Your servant is in your hands," Abram said. "Do with her whatever you think best." Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her. 7 The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, "Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?" "I'm running away from my mistress Sarai," she answered. 9 Then the angel of the LORD told her, "Go back to your mistress and submit to her." 10 The angel added, "I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count." 11 The angel of the LORD also said to her: "You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishma-El[God hears], for the LORD has heard of your misery. 12 He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers." 13 She gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: "You are the God who sees me," for she said, "I have now seen the One who sees me." 14 That is why the well was called Beer Lahai Roi; it is still there, between Kadesh and Bered. --------------------------------- Speaking of DISAGREEMENT... Verses 1 & 2 establishes that Lady Sarah[sarai] is the one who instructed Patriarch Abraham to sleep with her maid Lady Hagar[Hajira]; furthermore, Lady Sarah PERSONALLY took her maid Lady Hagar[Hajira] and presented her to Patriarch Abraham so Lady Hagar[Hajira] could be his surrogate wife. Then, according to the Biblical translators, Lady Sarah is despised by her maid Lady Hagar[Hajira] in Verse 4 because of the very purpose she was wedded to Patriarch Abraham in the first place : that Lady Hagar[Hajira] bear him an heir and build Lady Sarah's very own family through her. In Verse 5, Lady Sarah then blames Lady Hagar[Hajira] for despising her !? Do any of these verses make any sense whatsoever ??? There is no reason provided for Lady Hagar[Hajira] to begin to despise Lady Sarah[sarai]... The question of Patriarch Isaac's covenant being accepted over Patriarch Ishmael hadn't even arisen and was still in the distant future... There wasn't even the remotest concept that Lady Sarah[sarai] was going to miraculously bear an offspring to Patriarch Abraham in the distant future, consequently, there was no reason or rationale for Lady Hagar[Hajira] to begin despising Lady Sarah[sarai]... Thus, the Biblical translators COULD NOT provide a reason or rationale in Verses 4 & 5 of Genesis 16 ! Even then, the verses in chapter 17, CLEARLY indicate that ALL of Patriarch Abraham's seed after him had an established covenant with Almighty God. NONE were excluded except those who rejected the covenantal rite of circumcision, and thus broke their covenant with Almighty God. There is NOT A SINGLE verse in chapter 17 which explicitly states that Almighty God WILL NOT have a covenant with Patriarch Ishmael. ALL verses regarding the subject of God's covenant with Patriarch Abraham and his seed unmistakably indicate that Almighty God's everlasting covenant with patriarchs Abraham and Ishmael had been consecrated. As for Verse 13, Lady Hagar[Hajira] is in conversation with the unnamed Angel of the Lord, and then SUDDENLY we are informed that Almighty Lord God Himself spoke to her !? And in turn, Lady Hagar[Hajira] acknowledges this by declaring that God has seen her and that she has now seen the One who has seen her...??? So, which is it ?? Has God HEARD Lady Hagar[Hajira] or has God SEEN Lady Hagar[Hajira], and she in turn has SEEN God ??? And what happened to the unnamed Angel of the Lord ?? Where did he suddenly disappear to ?? Or was it figurative ?? She actually conversed with the unnamed Angel of the Lord but figuratively, it was a meeting with Almighty God Himself ?? I wonder what those Biblical translators were thinking when they transcribed all this...?? Quranic-Biblical comparisons : Surah Hud; Ayats 69-73 11:69 Walaqad jaat rusuluna ibraheema bialbushra qaloo salaman qala salamun fama labitha an jaa biAAijlin haneethin There came Our messengers to Abraham with glad tidings. They said, "Peace!" He answered, "Peace!" and hastened to entertain them with a roasted calf. 11:70 Falamma raa aydiyahum la tasilu ilayhi nakirahum waawjasa minhum kheefatan qaloo la takhaf inna orsilna ila qawmi lootin But when he saw that their hands were not extended towards it, he deemed them strange and conceived fear of them. . They said: Fear not, surely we are sent to Lut's people. 11:71 Waimraatuhu qa-imatun fadahikat fabashsharnaha bi-ishaqa wamin wara-i ishaqa yaAAqooba And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed: But we gave her glad tidings of Isaac, and after him, of Jacob. 11:72 Qalat ya waylata aalidu waana AAajoozun wahatha baAAlee shaykhan inna hatha lashay-on AAajeebun She said: "Alas for me! shall I bear a child, seeing I am an old woman, and my husband here is an old man? That would indeed be a wonderful thing!" 11:73 Qaloo ataAAjabeena min amri Allahi rahmatu Allahi wabarakatuhu AAalaykum ahla albayti innahu hameedun majeedun They said: "Dost thou wonder at Allah's decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, o ye people of the house! for He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of all glory!" Genesis Chapter 18:1-15 The Three Visitors 1 The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. 3 He said, "If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant." "Very well," they answered, "do as you say." 6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. "Quick," he said, "get three seahs of fine flour and knead it and bake some bread." 7 Then he ran to the herd and selected a choice, tender calf and gave it to a servant, who hurried to prepare it. 8 He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree. 9 "Where is your wife Sarah?" they asked him. "There, in the tent," he said. 10 Then the LORD said, "I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son." Now Sarah was listening at the entrance to the tent, which was behind him. 11 Abraham and Sarah were already old and well advanced in years, and Sarah was past the age of childbearing. 12 So Sarah laughed to herself as she thought, "After I am worn out and my master is old, will I now have this pleasure?" 13 Then the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh and say, 'Will I really have a child, now that I am old?' 14 Is anything too hard for the LORD ? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son." 15 Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, "I did not laugh." But he said, "Yes, you did laugh." ------------------------------------------ From Verse 9 to Verse 10 in Genesis 18, again there is an inconsistency in that the Three Visitors [i.e. angelic messengers] are SUDDENLY inexplicably replaced with the very person of Almighty God... No such confusion exists in the Quranic verses[ayats]...
  12. Tabernacle is greater than Kaaba

    Note: In spite of the fact that those who call themselves "JEWS" aren't even that from their very own Biblical/Judeo-Christian standards, the fact that so many Christians sociopolitically and geopolitically support the "Jewish" Zionist ideology is INCOMPREHENSIBLE considering the following Biblical verses: 1 Thessalonians 2:14 - For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, 1 Thessalonians 2:15 - who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind 1 Thessalonians 2:16 - in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last. We have something similarly INCOMPREHENSIBLE in standard Islam in the brothers & sisters of the Salafi movement and persuasion. They actually revere the temporal exploits of the Bani Umayyah (Umayyads) and extol the traditional VILLAINS of early standard Islamic history: Abu Sufyan; his son Muawiyah; Muawiyah's son Yazid I; etc. It clearly DEFIES moral logic and common sense.
  13. Tabernacle is greater than Kaaba

    Note: With Japheth being the progenitor of the Northern or European/Russian people, Ashkenaz (Ascanias) is placed with Phrygians in the below map: My research came up with the Trojans being Ashkenazim because of the 3 famous Trojans named Ascanias (Askenaz)--one of whom was also a son of King Priam of Troy. Also, looking at the Western Judeo-Christian map which geographically places the Biblical Table of Nations, it is easy it see the European/Occidental "INTERPRETATION" or "UNDERSTANDING" of the Biblical scriptures. Of course it does not account for the Oriental/Asian people; South Asian people; the Australasians; the Sub-Saharans past Nubia(North Sudan)/Sudan/Ethiopia/Eritrea/Somalia; the Meso-Americas; etc. Furthermore, from Judeo-Christian/Biblical standards MOSES WASN'T A JEW (JUDAHITE) or YAHUDI, EITHER. He was a LEVITE. And NEITHER WAS HIS BROTHER AARON...From where the SUPPOSED "Kohanim Gene" genetically identifies the "JEWISH RACE"...Kohan was an alleged Rabbi who was supposedly a direct PATRILINEAL descendant of AARON, son of the Biblical Amram and brother of MOSES. Again, a COLOSSAL contradiction in Rabbinical/Talmudic Judaism which insists that the only way a "Jew" can genetically be a "Jew" is through the "Jewish Biological Mother" and not the "Jewish Biological Father". From the Biblical/Judeo-Christian Table of Nations, it is OBVIOUS that NEITHER MOSES NOR HIS BROTHER AARON WERE "JEWS" OR JUDAHITE (YAHUDI), consequently, the ENTIRE Kohan-Gene concept is a FALLACY. Another curious item is that the identification of CANAANITE (Banu Kinanah) has alternately been used for being alleged ancestors of the so-called "JEWS"...There is one BIG problem with this: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [copy-pasted from www.gotquestions.org] Genesis 9:20-25 tells us, "Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness. When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, he said, "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers." Why did Noah curse Canaan when it was Ham who saw him naked? Why was Noah so angry that Ham saw him naked? Some propose that Ham and/or Canaan actually did something to Noah in addition to seeing him naked. The passage mentions that Noah was angry when he found out, "what his youngest son had done to him." Homosexuality, rape, and humiliation are frequently mentioned as possibilities. However, the text nowhere states that Ham did anything to Noah. Any such view of what occurred is speculation. Another view arises out of comparison with Leviticus 20:11, "The man who lies with his father's wife has uncovered his father's nakedness..." With Leviticus 20:11 in mind, some propose that Ham had sex with Noah's wife, and that was what brought the curse from Noah. However, this figurative understanding of "uncovering nakedness" fails to account for the fact that Shem and Japheth walked into the room backward and covered Noah with a garment. This does not make any sense if "uncovering nakedness" means "having sex with Noah's wife." It definitely seems that Noah was lying naked—his nakedness uncovered. Whatever took place between Ham and Noah, why did Noah curse Ham's son Canaan, when Canaan is nowhere mentioned as having done anything? The Bible does not specifically answer this question. Ham was Noah's youngest son, and Canaan was Ham's youngest son. Perhaps Noah cursed Canaan because it is more painful for a father to see his child suffer than it is for a father to suffer himself. The other possible explanation is that Canaan was somehow involved in the incident, thereby bringing Noah's curse upon himself. [end of copy-paste] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank Al-Lah (swt), NO SUCH disgraceful passages are even remotely implied in the Holy Qur'an regarding the great patriarchs of monotheism. Furthermore, it makes no sense at all that Noah would have supposedly cursed Ham's innocent son Canaan, when it was Ham who was the alleged perpertrator or culprit. So from this Judeo-Christian/Biblical account, the Canaanites bear the CURSE of Patriarch Noah. Also, how are Canaanites (Banu Kinanah) sometimes considered Semitic when Canaan (Kinanah) was the SON OF HAM AND NOT SHEM ? Genesis 9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. This is what the Bible says of Japheth, while Canaan bears the curse of being his servant. This may translate as the Canaanites (Banu Kinanah) will be subservient to the progeny of Japheth. This Biblical prophecy could be correlated to the Ashkenazi "Jews" of Khazaria/Eastern Europe DWELLING IN THE TENTS OF THE SHEMITES, WHO INCLUDE BOTH THE ADNAN (NORTHERN OR ARABIZED ARABS) & THE A'ARAB OR QAHTANIAN ARABS. With the ASHKENAZI ZIONIST occupation of PALESTINE, could this be considered a BIBLICAL PROPHECY ? This still leaves us with WHO EXACTLY ARE THE CANAANITES ? THE PALESTINIANS ? Especially, since they were innocently burdened with a curse for something Canaan's father Ham did...!? * Correction: Ham, NOT Japheth, was the 3rd or youngest son of Noah according to the Biblical narrative.
  14. Tabernacle is greater than Kaaba

    The concept and ideology of a Chosen People had to do with being muwahidun muminun (monotheist believers) or muslimeen (submitters). It was not a concept of a chosen ethnicity or race. The Holy Qur'an has recorded this in the following verses of Surah Al-Baqarah (The Heifer), which was undoubtedly a re-confirmation of this very same message in the earlier two kitaballah of Al Taurat (The Torah) and Al Injil (The Evangel): 2:47 O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations. Ya banee isra-eela othkuroo niAAmatiya allatee anAAamtu AAalaykum waannee faddaltukum AAala alAAalameena 2:122 O children of Israel, call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations. Ya banee isra-eela othkuroo niAAmatiya allatee anAAamtu AAalaykum waannee faddaltukum AAala alAAalameena 2:123 And be on your guard against a day when no soul shall avail another in the least neither shall any compensation be accepted from it, nor shall intercession profit it, nor shall they be helped. Waittaqoo yawman la tajzee nafsun AAan nafsin shay-an wala yuqbalu minha AAadlun wala tanfaAAuha shafaAAatun wala hum yunsaroona 2:124 And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He [Al-Lah] Wa-ithi ibtala ibraheema rabbuhu bikalimatin faatammahunna qala innee jaAAiluka lilnnasi imaman qala wamin thurriyyatee qala la yanalu AAahdee alththalimeena Of course, the special favour upon the the Children of Yaqub Israil (Jacob Israel) was only VALID IF they remained just and not UNJUST (ZALIMEEN). It is based upon DEEDS (AMAAL) rather than automatic biological LINEAGE. Also, the FALLACY I was pointing out was that the Chosen People WERE NOT A RACE OR ETHNICITY... ...The way in which the Ashkenazi Jews present it is as if they were a race or ethnicity. That is the FALLACY. And here is the reason why... Ashkenaz (Ascanias) was the son of Gomer, who was the son of Japheth, who was the 3rd son of Noah (Nuh). Here is the following Biblical concept: [copy-pasted clip from Wikipedia] Table of nations According to Genesis 10, Noah had three sons: Ham, forefather of the southern peoples (Hamitic)Shem, forefather of the middle peoples (Semitic)Japheth, forefather of the northern peoples (Japhetic Eurasia) [end of copy-paste] The Ashkenazim "Jews" are NOT EVEN biological descendants of Shem, son of Noah even by their own Judeo-Christian standards... Consequently, THE ARE NOT SEMITES. They are really Khazars of Khazaria (Ukraine/Scythia). THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO THE LAND OF PALESTINE OR ANY LAND IN THE MIDDLE OR NEAR EAST. The Tanakh (Hebrew-language Bible or Old Testament) identifies Ashkenaz (Ascanias), son of Gomer, son of Japheth, son of Noah as the FATHER OF THE EUROPEAN PEOPLES. Again, Ashkenazi "Jews" are NEITHER JEWS (JUDAHITES); ISRAELITES; SEMITES; HAMITES; nor CANAANITES...According to their very own Judeo-Christian standards, they could ONLY qualify as HEBREWS or Ibrani (Bani Eber). But then so do ALL ISHMAELITES...