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wmehar2

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About wmehar2

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  • Birthday 09/24/1990

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    NY, USA
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    Sufi - Islam

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  1. yes and there are verses that default the wife after divorce stay living there in the home and to not be turned out either.
  2. It seems something related to inheritance came up in another passage @andres @Gaius I. Caesar and whoever else finds this interesting. 2:240 And those who are taken in death among you and leave wives behind - for their wives is a bequest: maintenance for one year without turning [them] out. But if they leave [of their own accord], then there is no blame upon you for what they do with themselves in an acceptable way. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.
  3. Killing civilians in war

    allegedly The Jews of a certain city who betrayed the treaty were killed according to their own books, except women and children (boys who wete teenagers may have been as well). I detest killing of innocents but in a way they can be used against you. Children and women included. It becomes a chaotic mess. Even unwilling combatants are coerced because they're own families are threatened. The hearts compassion is a weakness a moral less enemy will exploit if they see it in their foe. The Quran has a stance to simply fight those who fight you. I dont see a case to justify collateral damage but neither constitute collateral damages as an act of war, as far as I understand it. Ideally, war should have been avoided to begin with. And that so called technology you speak of also acts as a war deterrent (and has been used as such) as an instrument of fear at the cost of too many lives. Though also to bully and coerce. Power, technology, weapons counter immorally groups from exploiting the weak. It seems they are necessary. The world is always going to be a crappy place in this regard.
  4. Ok, we're getting somewhere! Id like to know the criterion these Studies use from these hadith narrators, to grade authenticity.
  5. You will find many of what I say is "Quranist" but I also disagree with much of their own opinions. Im here to stir your brain and make you think /question like I am trying to. So I can have an open discussion and learn something. I don't have the perfect brain or mind, I need others contributing and openly considering it and posing their opinions so it can validate whatever argument Im for or against. It just helps me understand better. I appreciate everyone who is open minded with me and I would hope its every bit as helpful to them, perhaps confirming their own beliefs or helping them adjust something they actually don't find right.
  6. And yet it all goes back to Ibrahim, for all three of us major religions. There are people who call themselves Christians and Jews, and they are believers in God and the unseen following verses God did send down. No matter how distorted those verses endured. Look at us muslims @kirtc. We still have a test even if we all call ourselves muslim Don't you see? The test never ended even when Muhammad SAW came, muslims still split up! Maybe the test Kirtc, is to see which of us can obey God by following virtues, believing in him, yet keeping peace despite our differences? But you and I both know, there will always be those who are blind and are part of the chaos despite delusion into thinking they're helping. It says so in Quran in the very same verses I quoted here. You and I both know there will be those who purposefully disbelieve and seek to create chaos and instability. Allah SWT says: ذٰلِكَ الْكِتٰبُ لَا رَيْبَ ۛ فِيهِ ۛ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ "This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -" (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 2) الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلٰوةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنٰهُمْ يُنْفِقُونَ "Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them," (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 3) وَالَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَآ أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَآ أُنْزِلَ مِنْ قَبْلِكَ وَبِالْأَاخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ "And who believe in what has been revealed to you, and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]." (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 4) أُولٰٓئِكَ عَلٰى هُدًى مِّنْ رَّبِّهِمْ ۖ وَأُولٰٓئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ "Those are upon guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful." (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 5) إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا سَوَآءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ ءَأَنْذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنْذِرْهُمْ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ "Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe." (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 6) وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَنْ يَقُولُ ءَامَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَبِالْيَوْمِ الْأَاخِرِ وَمَا هُمْ بِمُؤْمِنِينَ "And of the people are some who say, We believe in Allah and the Last Day, but they are not believers." (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 8) يُخٰدِعُونَ اللَّهَ وَالَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلَّآ أَنْفُسَهُمْ وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ "They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not." (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 9) If you pay attention to the first verses, it says this book is for those conscious of Allah and believe what was revealed to Muhammad AND those before, which means us. Christians /Jews may not believe what was revealed to Muhammad, so they have their books. The Quran is not for them. As evidenced by below! Quran 5:44 Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers. Quran 5:47 And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.
  7. Is Rape Allowed in Islam?

    Listen @Mishael You and I can agree muslims don't all follow Qu'ran. Just because Arab Muslims or other muslims from ethnic groups did something, doesn't mean they did it by God's Law.
  8. Is Rape Allowed in Islam?

    That is because you're understanding of slave is different from our understanding. Slave is not a slave in the same sense, it is more of a servant. A servant you take care of and takes care of you and you have a contract. They're still entitled to dignity. Slavery after Islam transformed from what you colloquially understand as slavery (Africans coming to the US).
  9. I could care less for Quranist perspective. For me, it is an assumption that Hadith are preserved, it is not a fact. The Quran is preserved, I will take that as fact as a badge of my belief in the unseen. As most here would. I'm arguing Hadith should not be taken as fact, if it took fallible men to peruse them, preserve them, examine them, grade them, they are not badges of faith by following them. for @kirtc And it is why I'm debating his notion of qu'ran is not enough. Hadith by themselves let alone supplementing Qur'an can never be enough either.
  10. Is Rape Allowed in Islam?

    She still as a right to her chastity if she desires based on the verses I shown you. It's regardless who she is/what she is. If she doesn't desire abstinence/chastity and is a slave girl then it's on her if I read this correctly. A pagan slave woman who desires chastity is desiring something good even if she doesn't follow God's laws. That's how you introduce God/religion to them to begin with. There is no compulsion in religion remember so if she is a pagan, we can't choose to rape her (like ISIS/Da3sh seems to think they can do with non kitabi people). Because that would put pressure on the girl. It makes all sorts of fantastic logical sense.
  11. Rakaats and Sujuuds are something made normal to you because that's what you grew up learning as shown in Hadiths., and you were taught that THOSE hadith and actions are a normal part of Islam and they're important. You don't actually KNOW for certain, you take what you were taught for fact instead of investigate yourself. That is what I'm saying. You say "WE ALL KNOW its not sufficient", its not sufficient according to HADITH, not according to God's words. Why is it not sufficient, because you believe the Prophet said it wouldn't be? The Quran just tells us to pray, and in several verses that we must stand, bow, prostrate. We are told to face the Qiblah, we are told Fatiha as the key/open to prayer when calling to Allah. We are told about Rukoo/Sajda and what to say , all of this is in Qur'an. Though Christians/jews praying didn't need to do these, face the same Qiblah as us etc. So doesn't reason tell you some aspects of prayer are arbitrary? I mean are you not guilty of what @andres is trying to argue? He's saying the Qu'ran needs to be a book that fixes all of us and if we followed it we all would be in happy land, yet he blames the Qur'an as not being a perfect book because we are all broken into sects and are not in happy land. Even he understands Hadith is what broke us up and divided us. Shia say Sunnis are not mu'min, (which is substantial), Sunni's say Shia are kafirs in some lights, this and that, this and that. Would ever actually sit and question what you're following or were taught and at least be certain? **Example, if you were taught all your life living in one country that all men must wear hats and there is no question about it, any one who doesn't is a bad person! And you were taught this but never questioned why men who didn't wear hats were bad, just accepted it as fact - they told you the forefathers taught us this because the prophet said this! When would you actually question that maybe not all hatless men were bad?** Did anyone ever try just following the Qu'ran? People are following hadith and there is NO means of measuring success /rate of holiness or goodness of those who do follow them. Really There isn't. No I'm not asking you to pray only from how you interpret from the Quran,
  12. Is Rape Allowed in Islam?

    1. You are not applying serious reading comprehension or logical reasoning abilities.. The link you provided asks about intimacy with a slave being allowed, not forcible rape, Consensual sex and permissibility of it is a separate entity altogether. It is not talking about RAPE. They're not even discussing rape, because it is obvious from Qu'ran you cannot rape a woman slave or free or married. 2. Islamqa is not what I follow. If some BS Hadith that say rape is allowed contradicts the Qu'ran then therefore not authentic and should not be part of religion. Though Islamqa in this case isn't arguing the permissibility of rape. Islamqa is not a source of knowledge in Islam for me, sorry. I don't think it is for any Shia' muslim on here either. I'm bordering on thinking you are not someone I can have an open discussion with if you're not taking this conversation seriously. I may take @Hamodiii's stance and just end this discussion with you as you refuse to actually care to consider the possibility that you're ill-informed or not correct in this. The verses clearly command us to give slave women their chastity/abstinence if they desire it and not to force them to prostitution. If the slave girl is a Christian or Jew etc., we cannot make her violate God's laws that they follow (which is sent down by the same God as us). That is why God protects them and says if a slave (who may be people of scripture) is raped/forced to prostitution against their will, God will forgive them and not hold it accountable to them (this verse implies that the verse isn't just towards muslims).
  13. Is Rape Allowed in Islam?

    Taking a woman from war, does not constitute rape nor inheriting them by compulsion. Women need protectors/guardians.... Maybe you don't understand historic Arabia and how the place/roes of women were. They needed to be cared for, if you kill their husbands/protectors in war, then you are responsible for them. It doesn't mean you are entitled to rape them. I literally gave you TWO verse that are quite clear you cannot force sex on them in ANY capacity including slavery EXPLICITLY. There is no way you can presume rape is allowed on women unless you want to hide the rest of the Quran and have a thirst for rape, or just want Islam to look bad. It's a non-sequitur, your argument. Let's not kid ourselves. please read 24:33 again. And let those who find not the means to marry be abstinent till God enriches them of His bounty. Those your right hands own who seek emancipation, contract with them accordingly, if you know some good in them; and give them of the wealth of God that He has given you. And constrain not your slave-girls to prostitution, if they desire to live in chastity, that you may seek the chance goods of the present life. Whosoever constrains them, surely God, after their being constrained, is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. slave women don't have means to marry, they count as that group. TWICE it's emphasized to leave them chaste away from unlawful sex outside MARRIAGE.
  14. Is Rape Allowed in Islam?

    No. Quran 4:19 O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good. quran 24:33 And let those who find not the means to marry be abstinent till God enriches them of His bounty. Those your right hands own who seek emancipation, contract with them accordingly, if you know some good in them; and give them of the wealth of God that He has given you. And constrain not your slave-girls to prostitution, if they desire to live in chastity, that you may seek the chance goods of the present life. Whosoever constrains them, surely God, after their being constrained, is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. If God wants women who want to not fornicate (despite they're being slaves) aka be chaste, then what makes you think raping them is allowed @Mishael? It also says if your slaves want freedom, give it to them through contract; even give them some money when you free them.
  15. Is Rape Allowed in Islam?

    You still need their consent. You also can't force a concubine, to be your concubine (4:19). You're logic applied here does not follow, if women are allowed whom your right hand possesses it does not insinuate rape. It just means they are allowed to have sexual relations with them. You're reading comprehension seems to be lacking, because you missed 4:24 "desiring chastity, not fornication". Why haven't you read the verses just 5 verses previously (below)? Quran 4:19 O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good. If you cannot inherit a woman by force, you can't take her as a slave/sex slave or rape her. Live with women in kindness, pretty sure that means you can't rape them.
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