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About wmehar2

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  • Birthday 09/24/1990

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    NY, USA
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    Sufi - Islam

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  1. truth

    Be careful of translations. Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing? Pickthall: Have ye any hope that they will be true to you when a party of them used to listen to the word of Allah, then used to change it, after they had understood it, knowingly? Yusuf Ali: Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you?- Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it. Shakir: Do you then hope that they would believe in you, and a party from among them indeed used to hear the Word of Allah, then altered it after they had understood it, and they know (this). Muhammad Sarwar: Do you, the believers in truth, desire the unbelievers to believe you? There was a group among them who would hear the word of God and understand it. Then they would purposely misinterpret it. Mohsin Khan: Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will believe in your religion inspite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allah [the Taurat (Torah)], then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it? Arberry: Are you then so eager that they should believe you, seeing there is a party of them that heard God's word, and then tampered with it, and that after they had comprehended it, wittingly? A few of these translations express that the Torah may not have been distorted directly but misinterpreted
  2. truth

    Don't know what others believe or say on this, but from what I read and put together God had different standards or protocol from one group to another. Though the message fundamentally the same. The Quran refers to the Torah, Injeel (gospel) and itself . It distinctly makes these books known as different but as His message. If they were meant to all be the same book I feel the author of the Quran would have just said the Quran came down before and was twisted, but it doesn't do that. it also maintains those who followed their books were righteous including the Quran after. Not all Arabs were children of Israel yet the Quran addresses them specifically l (as I referenced above and in many places). Perhaps this is part of the Quran teaching the followers of it to not force its laws on others who don't beleive in it and perhaps those follow a book He sent down are entitled to be autonomous to govern themselves with their own law and should be. The Quran mentions that it's a book for those conscious of God, in the beginning, and who beleive in the unseen. This extends well beyond Jews and Christians and validates that the books these people received as a bonafide message from God. Perhaps because these era of time these books came down called for different rules though Gods laws still fundamentally the same, since people are dynamic. The Quran explicitly states among Jews and Christians are righteous people who bow in prayer and their reward /earnest work will never be removed from them. I think the Quran is acknowledging the fact people who are Christian or Jewish have a right to have reservations about the Quran, and as long as they follow the books that were given to them sincerely, then well... they're on a right path. Qur'an 3:64-71 Surah Ale-'Imran (The Family of 'Imran)Say: "O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's will)." Ye people of the Book! why dispute ye about Abraham when the Law and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Have ye no understanding? Ah! ye are those who fell to disputing (even) in matters of which ye had some knowledge! but why dispute ye in matters of which ye have no knowledge? It is Allah Who knows and ye who know not! The above except validate my point . Torah is Law, distinct from Gospel which is its own law. Qur'an 5:67-69 Surah Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread)O Apostle! proclaim the (Message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission: and Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not those who reject faith. Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith. Those who believe (in the Qur'an) those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures) and the Sabians and the Christians any who believe in Allah and the Last Day and work righteousness on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.
  3. truth

    I was writing in general agreement but also disagreeing that a muslim would call the Torah corrupt unless he had less than half a brain. The Quran supports an uncorrupted Torah explicitly. I can argue that Jews are as equivalent to believers. As much as I am critical about hadith, There are narrations of the Prophet Muhammad AS swearing upon the Torah to settle disputes among Jews, and use Jewish laws from the Torah with a rabbi with him to supplement his decision . I also wanted to note about the Talmud which isn't really part of the Torah yet followed as if it were. Which is purely man made/engineered by Rabbis. which to me, is man made religion. Suratul Baqarah: Verses 120 − 123 And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say; “Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance”. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper (120). Those to whom We have given the Book read it as it aught to be read. These (it is who) believe in it; and whoever disbelieves in it, these it is that are the losers (121). O Children of Israel, call to mind Mybounty which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations (122). And be on your guard against a day when no soul shall avail another in the least neither shall any compensation be accepted from it, nor shall intercession profit it nor shall they be helped (123).
  4. truth

    The Quran Sanctions Jews to follow their books and considers them righteous. I doubt a being with sincere motives reading the Quran could surmise the discrepancies as imperfections. Quran indicates there was a change between these two groups and what God commanded for one versus the other and both following their books still makes these people righteous. There are Jews who discard rabbinic material and Talmud, as they're not the original books of Musa/Moses AS. It seems all three religious groups have had a holy text and a set of texts that are man written for supplement.
  5. truth

    In the spirit of looking for truth do you believe that the Old Testament and the New Testament must contradict each other or that they can and it's fine? When God Says isaiah to make prayers only to myself and me alone and to no one else... or 42:1, 42:5 where Jesus is said to be a servant of God. and God is alone ? "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." This verse, Matthew 15:9, If you want to talk about truth lets discuss it. You most assuredly know truth does not lie in contradictions. I agree with you and believe the truth came from Jesus Christ AS, but it isn't what through the new testament of books written by allegedly by his companions/ disciples. Jesus as a Jew believing in Torah and law of Jews did not suddenly change how God is believed and worshipped. “Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10). The most consistency can be observed if Jesus AS is but a human with miracles. Which I think means towards a more sensible truth. Malachi 3:6 King James Version (KJV) 6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Even in the king James Bible there are winds of consistency to Jesus not being God. I see the new testament as hadith of Jesus AS that was corrupted no different than Muhammad's hadith AS that was corrputed.
  6. truth

    because not everyone knows it or accepts a different truth. perception plays a large role id say. One certain truth is we all will die.
  7. yes and there are verses that default the wife after divorce stay living there in the home and to not be turned out either.
  8. It seems something related to inheritance came up in another passage @andres @Gaius I. Caesar and whoever else finds this interesting. 2:240 And those who are taken in death among you and leave wives behind - for their wives is a bequest: maintenance for one year without turning [them] out. But if they leave [of their own accord], then there is no blame upon you for what they do with themselves in an acceptable way. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.
  9. Killing civilians in war

    allegedly The Jews of a certain city who betrayed the treaty were killed according to their own books, except women and children (boys who wete teenagers may have been as well). I detest killing of innocents but in a way they can be used against you. Children and women included. It becomes a chaotic mess. Even unwilling combatants are coerced because they're own families are threatened. The hearts compassion is a weakness a moral less enemy will exploit if they see it in their foe. The Quran has a stance to simply fight those who fight you. I dont see a case to justify collateral damage but neither constitute collateral damages as an act of war, as far as I understand it. Ideally, war should have been avoided to begin with. And that so called technology you speak of also acts as a war deterrent (and has been used as such) as an instrument of fear at the cost of too many lives. Though also to bully and coerce. Power, technology, weapons counter immorally groups from exploiting the weak. It seems they are necessary. The world is always going to be a crappy place in this regard.
  10. Ok, we're getting somewhere! Id like to know the criterion these Studies use from these hadith narrators, to grade authenticity.
  11. You will find many of what I say is "Quranist" but I also disagree with much of their own opinions. Im here to stir your brain and make you think /question like I am trying to. So I can have an open discussion and learn something. I don't have the perfect brain or mind, I need others contributing and openly considering it and posing their opinions so it can validate whatever argument Im for or against. It just helps me understand better. I appreciate everyone who is open minded with me and I would hope its every bit as helpful to them, perhaps confirming their own beliefs or helping them adjust something they actually don't find right.
  12. And yet it all goes back to Ibrahim, for all three of us major religions. There are people who call themselves Christians and Jews, and they are believers in God and the unseen following verses God did send down. No matter how distorted those verses endured. Look at us muslims @kirtc. We still have a test even if we all call ourselves muslim Don't you see? The test never ended even when Muhammad SAW came, muslims still split up! Maybe the test Kirtc, is to see which of us can obey God by following virtues, believing in him, yet keeping peace despite our differences? But you and I both know, there will always be those who are blind and are part of the chaos despite delusion into thinking they're helping. It says so in Quran in the very same verses I quoted here. You and I both know there will be those who purposefully disbelieve and seek to create chaos and instability. Allah SWT says: ذٰلِكَ الْكِتٰبُ لَا رَيْبَ ۛ فِيهِ ۛ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ "This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -" (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 2) الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلٰوةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنٰهُمْ يُنْفِقُونَ "Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them," (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 3) وَالَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَآ أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَآ أُنْزِلَ مِنْ قَبْلِكَ وَبِالْأَاخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ "And who believe in what has been revealed to you, and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]." (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 4) أُولٰٓئِكَ عَلٰى هُدًى مِّنْ رَّبِّهِمْ ۖ وَأُولٰٓئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ "Those are upon guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful." (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 5) إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا سَوَآءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ ءَأَنْذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنْذِرْهُمْ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ "Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe." (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 6) وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَنْ يَقُولُ ءَامَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَبِالْيَوْمِ الْأَاخِرِ وَمَا هُمْ بِمُؤْمِنِينَ "And of the people are some who say, We believe in Allah and the Last Day, but they are not believers." (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 8) يُخٰدِعُونَ اللَّهَ وَالَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلَّآ أَنْفُسَهُمْ وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ "They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not." (QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 9) If you pay attention to the first verses, it says this book is for those conscious of Allah and believe what was revealed to Muhammad AND those before, which means us. Christians /Jews may not believe what was revealed to Muhammad, so they have their books. The Quran is not for them. As evidenced by below! Quran 5:44 Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers. Quran 5:47 And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.
  13. Listen @Mishael You and I can agree muslims don't all follow Qu'ran. Just because Arab Muslims or other muslims from ethnic groups did something, doesn't mean they did it by God's Law.
  14. That is because you're understanding of slave is different from our understanding. Slave is not a slave in the same sense, it is more of a servant. A servant you take care of and takes care of you and you have a contract. They're still entitled to dignity. Slavery after Islam transformed from what you colloquially understand as slavery (Africans coming to the US).
  15. I could care less for Quranist perspective. For me, it is an assumption that Hadith are preserved, it is not a fact. The Quran is preserved, I will take that as fact as a badge of my belief in the unseen. As most here would. I'm arguing Hadith should not be taken as fact, if it took fallible men to peruse them, preserve them, examine them, grade them, they are not badges of faith by following them. for @kirtc And it is why I'm debating his notion of qu'ran is not enough. Hadith by themselves let alone supplementing Qur'an can never be enough either.