Fish

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  1. You can't dismiss it like that though. Catholics say we do not worship Mary so they do not. It's that simple. You complain that Salafis mistake our praise and love towards the Ahlulbayt as worship, yet turn around and liken the praise of Saints by Catholics to worship. My argument wasn't a whataboutism fallacy, rather it was a comparison. What we do and what they do are both non-shirk actions. I am assuming a type of Ghulu is what you are implying? Yes, it has. Mary is a human. No. Protestants know she isn't part of the Trinity, hence why they accuse them of worshipping her. Similar to how Salafis accuse Shias of worshipping the Imams. They know they shouldn't be worshipped, hence why associate their 'enemies' with it. The Quran however, made a general statement about all Christians, almost implying it is a norm. I assume that you meant something within the lines of 'But not everything that opposes my beliefs is a valid argument either.' And yes, you are very right to think that. There are good and there are bad arguments, but something asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence either. And this happens because? I do not expect that much from the Quran, after all it is already a pretty long book. Rather, I expect that it present a stronger argument when it does present one. I agree. I find a lack of belief more convincing, but whether it's because of my desires and whims; my unanswered questions or because I feel it is legends of the Old Folks - I've yet to decide. I don't blame you at all. I sense that my opinions are unpopular - hence my profile picture - but I try to separate my own opinion from what Islam says when I answer questions.
  2. A cliche is something that's been hackneyed to the point that it is stale. I think my arguments, whether old or not, still stand as there is no fully compelling answer I have found. If you, as I am sure you do, believe that my arguments are cliche, please answer them, they are always genuine.
  3. Read over it, read much of the replies as well. I see this as more of a 'Dua', a plea for Mary's intercession on a day of immense horror. Similar to how Shias pray to God in the name of the Imam's and how the Pagans prior prayed through their idols only to closen themselves to their one true Lord. We do the same with the Imam's as well though. Granted, there are those who elevate to the point of Ghulu, but shias universally agree that there are certain people whose intercession would be the difference between heaven and hell. The Trinity are the Three worshipped by most Christians, when Allah claims that Mary was worshipped, automatically the Trinity pops into mind. You can't be narrow enough to dismiss anything oppossing to your beliefs... I wonder why... What is this intellectual honesty you speak of? Thanks. That was rather convincing. So... My point stands? The arguments raised by the Quran are superficial because the other religions never mattered to God anyway? Uhhh... If you can't convince a Non-Muslim to accept Islam, why accept it yourself? Glad you're okay with me having a different point of view.
  4. To be fair, I only now read the OP, in my defense, I expected it to be the cliche 'was there anything before us' question. You can remove my comments if you believe necessary.
  5. Ah, I understood it as before us. But can't we argue that this is a seritiam within creation? A test every time and Allah changes variables or something to see in x years what each community would reach if this were to change or if I removed this, added this etc.
  6. I don't actually think Jinns are evil, nor can they possess or teach black magic. To be fair, I don't subscribe to the whole idea of Jinns, but for the sake of argument I'll concede and answer your question. From the Quran we know there are Muslim Jinns. So if they did exist, they'd be like us: communties. There may be evil and there may be pious, but never will we interact, otherwise it'd be a widely documented phenomenon.
  7. A lot of scholars claim that before humans were other 'creations' of some sort. This is backed up by the following verse: وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً ۖ قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا And if your Lord said to the angels I am appointing a vicegerent on Earth, they said are you going to create who spread corruption in it? And since they do not know ahead of time, Ullama argue that prior to this point were people who spread corruption, murdered and destroyed on Earth. My 2 cents are that this a slip-up in the Quran and the Ullama came up with a cop-out.
  8. They're both pretty miraculous, but I think that's about it. When the Quran challenges Christianty, most of its challenges are superficial and weak - heck, it doesn't even know who is in the trinity: وَإِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَأَنتَ قُلْتَ لِلنَّاسِ اتَّخِذُونِي وَأُمِّيَ إِلَٰهَيْنِ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ ۖ قَالَ سُبْحَانَكَ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أَقُولَ مَا لَيْسَ لِي بِحَقٍّ ۚ إِن كُنتُ قُلْتُهُ فَقَدْ عَلِمْتَهُ ۚ تَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِي وَلَا أَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِكَ ۚ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ عَلَّامُ الْغُيُوبِ And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. (5, 116). The Christian people didn't worship Mary *suprise*.
  9. I would have contributed to this thread if it weren't a wall of text.
  10. I think the best Muslim is the Muslim who searches into other sections. Read about Sunnis and read about Christianity and Judaism and read about Satanism and then read about atheism. Remember to read each of these religions from the people who follow them. After having been exposed to so many options, you will know why Islam is right, you will have reason to be a Muslim. You will want to be a Muslim.
  11. Actually, some astrophysicists argue that a very simple premise - a nothing of some sorts - use to exist prior to space and the sort, and this 'nothing' split into equal amounts of matter and anti-matter, kind of like an equation where 0 = 0, you can add, multiply and do what ever you want as long as it is done to both sides. Logically this is pretty viable. The matter and anti-matter react together, boom! Big Bang. Not necessarily, but once again, probably. You could very well be right. Maybe we had this metaphorical finger that dropped the first metaphorical domino, but that doesn't mean he still cares about his dominos after 3.4 billion years. I like to believe our universe is more complex, but for argument's sake I'll concede. Now you leaped a leap of faith. Maybe a God, not the God though. Maybe even no God. The keyword here is maybe, and I am open to all maybe's. So the creator is independent of the creation. Logic I could get behind quite easily. Okay, still with you. Yes. If there is an omnipotent being, I can understand why and how he is so contrary to our laws and still not contradicting them. My question is, is this person out there? I have none of these questions. I can very easily understand how an omnipotent being can be contrary to our everything and not contradict them either. My questions were to prove there is a God and to prove it is Islam's God.
  12. Since the keyword 'Any' was used, I'll explain why evolution is not in harmony with Islam. Just to start you off, the whole 'history' the Quran presents. The story of Adam and Eve begins in Heaven as you pointed, while humans evolved on this Earth. The story of Adam - universally agreed upon, might I add - involves a single Adam and a single Eve, this can't be possible as this would end up in incestuous relationships and demented children - clearly not the case today. Another is the many fossils found which indicate the previous links between humans and other primates through their common ancestors. You also need to take into consideration the 'variety' of humans across the globe. There are small eyes, large eyes; big noses and small ones; taller people and shorter; only in rare occurances, such as an identical twin or a doppelganger, would any human look alike. When we take Islam's 'history' it argues that the Son's of Noah - Shem and Ham - the former who was white and the latter who was black, are the reason for this variety. Islam states that Noah lived 1000 years and Adam was 30 meters, both of which are scientifically improbable. If it helps a bit, the Jews and non-fundemental Christians both believe that the history proposed by the two testaments is purely metaphorical.
  13. Please do disprove it. Few rules though: 1. No Quran 2. No Hadith 3. No other religions' holy book or hadiths' equivalent. 4. Prove the need to have a religion, not the incompletion of science. 5. Prove said religion must be Islam. Genuinely intrigued, I have been struggling with my faith for a while, if it is as easy as you make it seem, give it your best shot. Might be given has an at for converting a faithless brother.
  14. This argument is very weak. Not only is the burden of proof on who makes the claim, but it is practically impossible to prove a negative. If you don't understand why, then here is an analogy: A: I have a bunch of dancing and singing monkeys in my backyard, but I am the only one who can see and hear them. Prove me wrong. B: *speechless* Similarly, when you believe in God and tell us to prove he does not exist, we simply can't. Also, you can never disprove atheism, as atheism is lack of belief (i.e religion), and not the lack of a God. TL;DR God may probaby exist to some atheists and this question would he rendered redundant.
  15. You missed my point, if athiests - in the time of prophets and imams - could be simply convinced through logic and rationale, why bring miracles?